Safe Harbor Insurance covers sinkhole

[Maddie2009]

Hi All, I am shopping around for home policy since the renew is higher and I didn't have a chance to compare and shop when I got American Integrity.

An All State agent found Safe Harbor in Gainesville,Fl who will cover my house with 1 year old roof and wind mitigation report to include sinkhole. Deductible for sinkhole is 10% of dwelling, hurricane is $500, other deductible is $1000 for a ranch home for $645. Yes, this is not the catastrophic collapse, but sinkhole.

I heard it's not easy to find sinkhole coverage. I also like hurricane deductible only $500 v.s. 2% of dwelling.

The question is if the company is good, financially sound. They are rated by the same people who rate American Integrity (i currently have). Anyone knows about this company or have a policy with them?

Any comments, opinions and or advice/warning? Thanks

[kellyjam]

Interesting tidbit about sink hole coverage is that it only covers to the roof line. I wonder if The Villages would take care of the front or back yard and if so would they bill you?

[Maddie2009]

I think front and back yard belong to the home. Thus, any sinkholes on those areas the Villages will not take care of. As the agent explained, if the sinkhole or cracks effect the structure of the house, then it's covered with 10% of dwelling as deductible. The will cover sinkhole for homes with newer roof, said the agent.

[Bjeanj]

Safe Harbor Insurance has been rated by two companies, A.M. Best and Demotech. The purpose of insurance companies being rated is to help assess whether a company is financially able to pay claims as they are incurred. Info is below.

http://www3.ambest.com/ambv/bestnews/presscontent.aspx?altsrc=14&refnum=17576
Safe Harbor Insurance Company - Home (http://www.safeharborflorida.com)

[784caroline]

Any insurance (Life, Car, Homeowners etc)is only as good as the financial backing of the company . If a major hurricane would hit Florida and Safe Harbor as most of its policies written in Florida, you need to consider if this company would be able to pay the claims or would it find all sorts of technical issues on why or how to deny your clam. Proceed carefully!!

[Misky1951]

Hi All, I am shopping around for home policy since the renew is higher and I didn't have a chance to compare and shop when I got American Integrity.

An All State agent found Safe Harbor in Gainesville,Fl who will cover my house with 1 year old roof and wind mitigation report to include sinkhole. Deductible for sinkhole is 10% of dwelling, hurricane is $500, other deductible is $1000 for a ranch home for $645. Yes, this is not the catastrophic collapse, but sinkhole.

I heard it's not easy to find sinkhole coverage. I also like hurricane deductible only $500 v.s. 2% of dwelling.

The question is if the company is good, financially sound. They are rated by the same people who rate American Integrity (i currently have). Anyone knows about this company or have a policy with them?

Any comments, opinions and or advice/warning? Thanks


I would recommend going to The Villages Insurance. I recently got the sinkhole coverage without an inspection. You might be able to save some money.

[Bogie Shooter]

Interesting tidbit about sink hole coverage is that it only covers to the roof line. I wonder if The Villages would take care of the front or back yard and if so would they bill you?
Is the Villages in the insurance business??

[Bjeanj]

Kellyjam, it sounds like you’re mixing apples and oranges, or something. Why in heavens name would The Villages fix a sinkhole in your yard? You would be responsible for finding and paying a contractor for a sinkhole on your property. If your insurance policy doesn’t provide coverage for a sinkhole, then you are SOL, and that cost comes out of your pocket.

[kellyjam]

Kellyjam, it sounds like you’re mixing apples and oranges, or something. Why in heavens name would The Villages fix a sinkhole in your yard? You would be responsible for finding and paying a contractor for a sinkhole on your property. If your insurance policy doesn’t provide coverage for a sinkhole, then you are SOL, and that cost comes out of your pocket.

I say it because we had a sinkhole on our block in the Pinellas and the next day The Villages had trucks all over it filling it in. Wouldn't you think trying to sell homes in a neighborhood with a giant sinkhole on a property would kind of hurt sales?

[Maddie2009]

Any insurance (Life, Car, Homeowners etc)is only as good as the financial backing of the company . If a major hurricane would hit Florida and Safe Harbor as most of its policies written in Florida, you need to consider if this company would be able to pay the claims or would it find all sorts of technical issues on why or how to deny your clam. Proceed carefully!!

I quite agree with the way you look at the exposure of the company. I got my first policy from The Villages Insurance. They found me a policy with American Integrity (AI) which now I see that they are a Tampa company and insure heavily in FL. The rating is the same as Safe Harbor. But, they will give me 2% of dwelling as hurricane deductible VS $500 from Safe Harbor. Also, AI did not and continue with no sinkhole coverage.

I don't know any non FL insurance companies offer insurance in FL. I am told USAA does not now. Safe Harbor offers in NC too. Just want to see if anyone has any experiences with Safe Harbor. Thank you for your input.

[graciegirl]

Kellyjam, it sounds like you’re mixing apples and oranges, or something. Why in heavens name would The Villages fix a sinkhole in your yard? You would be responsible for finding and paying a contractor for a sinkhole on your property. If your insurance policy doesn’t provide coverage for a sinkhole, then you are SOL, and that cost comes out of your pocket.

I'll say!!!!!

Another thing on the same subject; After all this rain, after quite a dry spell, is the time to expect sinkholes.

[Barefoot]

Wouldn't you think trying to sell homes in a neighborhood with a giant sinkhole on a property would kind of hurt sales?Valid point KJ.

[Retiring]

You would think a sinkhole next door would hurt sales, but you might be surprised. I have found that many people who come to TV really couldn’t care less about sinkholes. Some even have a fatalist attitude, if I die in a sinkhole - oh well.

Personally I would not buy near a known sinkhole because that tells me more about the sub surface condition than an area without a sinkhole. But to answer your question, would a SH hurt sales, I don’t think it would.

One woman had a serious snake problem. She lived near a pond and the snakes were of the venomous kind. She decided to sell, don’t know if she left TV. Problems selling the home? None. Don’t know if she disclosed the snake problem but she said there were a dozen yellow snake traps around her property.

There is a lot more to TV than the lot you live on. People move to the community for all the “extra” stuff, golf, pickleball, clubs, squares, etc. Some come to TV for the golf cart aspect.

SH insurance is a big deal to some and not to others. I’m a big believer in insurance. I still don’t think most TV residents understand the difference in SH coverage. Most believe they are covered for that SH in the backyard, sadly they will learn they are not covered. I would not by any coverage from an insurance company that writes most of their contracts in FL. One good storm and you are a creditor of a bankrupt insurance company. Happened to me in NY. However, lawyer says when the bankruptcy is complete the State fund will take over claims. I may see a fraction of my loss in approximately 10 yrs.

Caveat Emptor.

[Maddie2009]

You would think a sinkhole next door would hurt sales, but you might be surprised. I have found that many people who come to TV really couldn’t care less about sinkholes. Some even have a fatalist attitude, if I die in a sinkhole - oh well.

Personally I would not buy near a known sinkhole because that tells me more about the sub surface condition than an area without a sinkhole. But to answer your question, would a SH hurt sales, I don’t think it would.

One woman had a serious snake problem. She lived near a pond and the snakes were of the venomous kind. She decided to sell, don’t know if she left TV. Problems selling the home? None. Don’t know if she disclosed the snake problem but she said there were a dozen yellow snake traps around her property.

There is a lot more to TV than the lot you live on. People move to the community for all the “extra” stuff, golf, pickleball, clubs, squares, etc. Some come to TV for the golf cart aspect.

SH insurance is a big deal to some and not to others. I’m a big believer in insurance. I still don’t think most TV residents understand the difference in SH coverage. Most believe they are covered for that SH in the backyard, sadly they will learn they are not covered. I would not by any coverage from an insurance company that writes most of their contracts in FL. One good storm and you are a creditor of a bankrupt insurance company. Happened to me in NY. However, lawyer says when the bankruptcy is complete the State fund will take over claims. I may see a fraction of my loss in approximately 10 yrs.

Caveat Emptor.

Would you share who is your insurance company please. Thank you.

[Henryk]

Interesting tidbit about sink hole coverage is that it only covers to the roof line. I wonder if The Villages would take care of the front or back yard and if so would they bill you?

I doubt very much TV would cover ANYTHING regarding "acts of God."

[Maddie2009]

No, I don't think so either.

[marjie55]

I recently moved (2 weeks) into a 14 yr old villa and I paid 945.00 for coverage with Allstate and Castle Key insurance. My deductible is 3500 for hurricane and 10% of dwelling if sinkhole damage. Mine is much higher than yours and we have the same parent company, Allstate. I was told Castle Key was the only company (under Allstate) but the only company that offered sinkhole coverage in Florida. I am confused now?

[GatorFan]

Interesting tidbit about sink hole coverage is that it only covers to the roof line. I wonder if The Villages would take care of the front or back yard and if so would they bill you?

Sinkhole coverage endorsement covers same for all companies who offer. Damage to structure.

[GatorFan]

You would think a sinkhole next door would hurt sales, but you might be surprised. I have found that many people who come to TV really couldn’t care less about sinkholes. Some even have a fatalist attitude, if I die in a sinkhole - oh well.

Personally I would not buy near a known sinkhole because that tells me more about the sub surface condition than an area without a sinkhole. But to answer your question, would a SH hurt sales, I don’t think it would.

One woman had a serious snake problem. She lived near a pond and the snakes were of the venomous kind. She decided to sell, don’t know if she left TV. Problems selling the home? None. Don’t know if she disclosed the snake problem but she said there were a dozen yellow snake traps around her property.

There is a lot more to TV than the lot you live on. People move to the community for all the “extra” stuff, golf, pickleball, clubs, squares, etc. Some come to TV for the golf cart aspect.

SH insurance is a big deal to some and not to others. I’m a big believer in insurance. I still don’t think most TV residents understand the difference in SH coverage. Most believe they are covered for that SH in the backyard, sadly they will learn they are not covered. I would not by any coverage from an insurance company that writes most of their contracts in FL. One good storm and you are a creditor of a bankrupt insurance company. Happened to me in NY. However, lawyer says when the bankruptcy is complete the State fund will take over claims. I may see a fraction of my loss in approximately 10 yrs.

Caveat Emptor.


Demotech Affirms the Financial Stability Rating(R) Assigned to Safe Harbor Insurance Company | Demotech News (http://news.demotech.com/fsr_notifications/fsr_notification_12563/)

[aaffmom]

I would recommend going to The Villages Insurance. I recently got the sinkhole coverage without an inspection. You might be able to save some money.

What company did you get?

[Topspinmo]

I doubt very much TV would cover ANYTHING regarding "acts of God."

An what makes you think Insurance Company would cover them? :oops: better read the fine print with lawyer?

[GatorFan]

An what makes you think Insurance Company would cover them? :oops: better read the fine print with lawyer?

If you have the sinkhole coverage it would pay for damage. Why would it not?

[PapaPhil]

45 Years as a risk management consultant: The only rating system that matters is A.M. Best, which around 2012 declined to rate both companies mentioned because thy did not have the reserves to sufficiently pay claims. Demotech sprung up as an alternative to A.M. Best for rating the financial solvency of these small, mostly Florida-based companies. Their standards are laughable compared to A.M. Best; no insurance professional would consider them a reliable rating organization. Understand that the lack of a Best rating doesn't mean the companies haven't paid claims, only that their reserves (the amount of money available to actually pay claims) are to small to predict the likelihood of being able to pay claims in a catastrophic occurrence (i.e.: hurricane). Think of it as Consumer Reports vs some popup "best widgets of 2018" website.

[Misky1951]

What company did you get?


US Coastal

[Quixote]

Our insurance is with AAA South. To get sinkhole coverage with a $500 deductible, we had to accept the 2% deductible for hurricane damage; and all other deductibles—including that for sinkhole—are $500. We were grandfathered into these rates, which leaves us feeling we have no choice in terms of considering a change in company or agent. After all the hype about Hurricane Irma, we had absolutely no damage and hence no claim. Gratefully!

I would guess that companies all over the state who from their point of view are stuck with this grandfathering are lobbying the state to be permitted to eliminate grandfathering. If this eventually succeeds, then presumably we start from scratch. Meantime, our policy covers homeowners, auto, liability, and golf cart—one package for all coverages, that is, one large premium paid in full each year. The premium package isn't outrageously costly, but as mentioned, we can't consider a change in insurance coverage which would necessarily eliminate sinkhole coverage at worse or change it to 10% of total coverage at best.

[OhioBuckeye]

I would recommend going to The Villages Insurance. I recently got the sinkhole coverage without an inspection. You might be able to save some money.

I'm not so sure you can save any money because I've got my designer home Ins. by The Villages Ins. & it cost me between $800. & $900. a yr. which I think is a little high. Also I'm always a little leary about Ins. companies because it always seems when you do have to make a claim there's always a glitch in the contract that they don't want to pay. Just don't trust Ins. companies, even though you need the Ins.

[daca55]

I have sink hole insurance and I got it because a neighbor down the street from me had a sink hole on the rear of her patio villa. She had sink hole insurance. If she didn't to fix her house would have cost her over $150,000. With insurance she paid 10% deductible which came to $15,000. If your house is subject to a sink hole and it is not castrophic you better have sink hole coverage.

[regansings]

Call the Florida insurance department at 877- 693 5236. This is the department that admits companies to do business in Florida and maintains a record of customer complaints. They can answer your questions.

[jnieman]

Hi All, I am shopping around for home policy since the renew is higher and I didn't have a chance to compare and shop when I got American Integrity.

An All State agent found Safe Harbor in Gainesville,Fl who will cover my house with 1 year old roof and wind mitigation report to include sinkhole. Deductible for sinkhole is 10% of dwelling, hurricane is $500, other deductible is $1000 for a ranch home for $645. Yes, this is not the catastrophic collapse, but sinkhole.

I heard it's not easy to find sinkhole coverage. I also like hurricane deductible only $500 v.s. 2% of dwelling.

The question is if the company is good, financially sound. They are rated by the same people who rate American Integrity (i currently have). Anyone knows about this company or have a policy with them?

Any comments, opinions and or advice/warning? Thanks

Some companies will only give you coverage if they do an inspection on a pre-owned home. Sometimes you don't pass the inspection until after you have written the new policy and dropped the old policy. Then it is too late to get back your ASI sinkhole coverage. Ask your agent the percentage of homes that pass the sinkhole inspections. If it is a relatively new home it might be possible but on an older home worth checking. I used to do insurance quotes for Allstate and this issue came up a lot.

[GaryKoca]

I believe you are right that no non-Florida company will offer sinkhole insurance in Florida. Hartford, who insures our home up North, will not. But we did find a company through All in One Insurance in Lady Lake that provides good sinkhole insurance coverage.

[mkleinman]

So what have you been told is the difference between "Catastropic ground collapse" coverage & "Sinkhole" coverage? Sounds like the same thing to me or a matter of semantics!?

[stwalker717]

A bigger question than where to get sink hole coverage is what is causing the problem in The Villages. These holes started from a culvert that was either installed wrong or with defective material which caused an underground water leak which lead to a large erosion problem which made sink holes.
I am no engineer, but when large amounts of water leak from drainage pipes your going to have major erosion. In the southern part of The Villages I am told they now use concrete pipe, in the old section they use steel. All street drains that can be are interconnected in The Villages, and feed into their man made ponds. Look at your neighborhood, these large culvert style pipes run underground in between many of our houses.
So the question is what is going on? Were the drains in Calumet installed wrong?? Did The Villages use cheap foreign piping that is corroding and collapsing in places 15 years after installation. Is this an isolated incidence or should we all be worried??? BIG QUESTION TO ME? They admitted fault was theirs in Calumet, but really haven't explained the how and why. Look at the pictures all over the web. This was a defective drain that caused a man made sink hole. I do not believe this is mother natures work!

[jnieman]

So what have you been told is the difference between "Catastropic ground collapse" coverage & "Sinkhole" coverage? Sounds like the same thing to me or a matter of semantics!?

This has been discussed on here many times and it is not the same thing. Here is an explanation.


https://www.myfloridacfo.com/division/consumers/understandingcoverage/guides/documents/Sinkholes.pdf

[Nancy Mandigo]

We could not get sink hole insurance because our house is over twenty years old. We are near Spanish Springs and the home was built in 1997. I don’t know why the age of the home makes a difference.

[aaffmom]

I have sinkhole coverage with a $1000 deductible and no inspection. Premium was higher than company I had with 10% deductible but I looked at it as an investment to protect me from paying $23,000 if I had a sinkhole claim which I hope I never do.

[aaffmom]

So what have you been told is the difference between "Catastropic ground collapse" coverage & "Sinkhole" coverage? Sounds like the same thing to me or a matter of semantics!?

Not the same. Hugh difference.

[aaffmom]

Unbiased Financial Strength Ratings (https://www.thebalance.com/demotech-inc-review-1969741)

[SixmileJohn]

USAA will insure in Florida if you are active duty military and you get stationed here (obviously does not apply to us'ns). I had Florida Family Insurance (obtained through The Villages Insurance) in '06 and was hit by the tornado '07. They were great. Don't know if they are still in business. I currently have ASI obtained through USAA with a sink hole rider and a flood insurance policy. 500 deductable and and the first 18k on sink holes.

[joshgun]

The Florida Office of Insurance regulation has a tool available online where you can find insurance companies that do business (HO, auto, Medicare supplement) down to the zip code with an example of the rate they may charge. This list is only a starting point because then you have to compare deductibles, co pays, exclusions, Best's ratings, S & P ratings, etc. If you can not do this research, which is understandable, then you should use a trusted independent agent and make sure they do the comparisons. On this list you will find National Insurance companies like Federated, Liberty and State Farm. However, those companies normally setup a Florida only company to limit their liability, so you have the name of the national company, but not necessarily the financial backing or rating.

[graciegirl]

///

[aaffmom]

We could not get sink hole insurance because our house is over twenty years old. We are near Spanish Springs and the home was built in 1997. I don’t know why the age of the home makes a difference.

Safe Harbor will include sinkhole. They require roof not be over 15 years old when written which has nothing to do with offering sinkhole but underwriting of roof

[GatorFan]

Not true. Allstate and State Farm offer

[Maddie2009]

I recently moved (2 weeks) into a 14 yr old villa and I paid 945.00 for coverage with Allstate and Castle Key insurance. My deductible is 3500 for hurricane and 10% of dwelling if sinkhole damage. Mine is much higher than yours and we have the same parent company, Allstate. I was told Castle Key was the only company (under Allstate) but the only company that offered sinkhole coverage in Florida. I am confused now?



I contacted AllState Insurance. They don't write for themselves, but the agent found me Safe Harbor which is the same rating and a FL insurance company like American Integrity where I got my first year coverage through the Villages Insurance Agency.

I don't need sinkhole inspection, but general exterior and interior inspection by Safe Harbor. Much happier with the premium and the deductible. I contact the agent below. She is responsive and effective. Even the White House which is not far from my house in VA got a sinkhole in the yard now!


Teresa Jenkins Agent T: 352-259-3825 F: 352-259-7002 11962 County Road 101, Ste 305 The Villages, FL 32162

[Maddie2009]

45 Years as a risk management consultant: The only rating system that matters is A.M. Best, which around 2012 declined to rate both companies mentioned because thy did not have the reserves to sufficiently pay claims. Demotech sprung up as an alternative to A.M. Best for rating the financial solvency of these small, mostly Florida-based companies. Their standards are laughable compared to A.M. Best; no insurance professional would consider them a reliable rating organization. Understand that the lack of a Best rating doesn't mean the companies haven't paid claims, only that their reserves (the amount of money available to actually pay claims) are to small to predict the likelihood of being able to pay claims in a catastrophic occurrence (i.e.: hurricane). Think of it as Consumer Reports vs some popup "best widgets of 2018" website.


Agree with you about AM Best rating. But, no outside FL or cannot find one to insure us at TV. I was told by the agent that the company, Safe Harbor is insured by AM Best companies. Hopefully, FL Insurance Commission, or Authority will not let these companies belly up easily and we suffer badly. I would think they are familiar with the storms there? I am currently not far from The White House, put my TV home in FL's government's hand.

[Back9]

45 Years as a risk management consultant: The only rating system that matters is A.M. Best, which around 2012 declined to rate both companies mentioned because thy did not have the reserves to sufficiently pay claims. Demotech sprung up as an alternative to A.M. Best for rating the financial solvency of these small, mostly Florida-based companies. Their standards are laughable compared to A.M. Best; no insurance professional would consider them a reliable rating organization. Understand that the lack of a Best rating doesn't mean the companies haven't paid claims, only that their reserves (the amount of money available to actually pay claims) are to small to predict the likelihood of being able to pay claims in a catastrophic occurrence (i.e.: hurricane). Think of it as Consumer Reports vs some popup "best widgets of 2018" website.


Can't these Florida insurance companies RE-INSURE the local FL risk out to national companies? and spread the risk and then have the resources to pay?


.

[Back9]

This has been discussed on here many times and it is not the same thing. Here is an explanation.


https://www.myfloridacfo.com/division/consumers/understandingcoverage/guides/documents/Sinkholes.pdf

Thank you for posting. Many of us are tuning in for the first time and don't know the difference between "sink hole" and "catastrophic" insurance.

[aaffmom]

Allstate does write home policies with sinkhole if you are a primary resident

[Odysseus]

I use The Villages Insurance and changed my American Integrity to US Coastal Property & Casualty administered by Cabrillo Coastal because the latter had sinkhole coverage for my property and house without inspection.

[Back9]

This has been discussed on here many times and it is not the same thing. Here is an explanation.


https://www.myfloridacfo.com/division/consumers/understandingcoverage/guides/documents/Sinkholes.pdf

From the PDF from the link above:


A) “Catastrophic ground cover collapse” is defined as “geological activity that results in ALL of the following:

1). The abrupt collapse of the ground cover;

2). A depression in the ground cover clearly visible to the naked eye;

3). Structural damage to the building including the foundation; and

4). The insured structure being condemned and ordered to be vacated by the government agency authorized by law to issue such an order for that structure.”

B) This means that if your home is damaged by sinkhole activity, but does not meet all four criteria for catastrophic ground
cover collapse – for instance, you may have foundation cracks, but the home is still livable – your insurance may not pay
for the damage if you do not have sinkhole coverage.



A recent change in Florida law requires authorized insurers to cover “catastrophic ground cover collapse,” but damage caused by a sinkhole may not be covered by your policy.


.
https://www.myfloridacfo.com/division/consumers/understandingcoverage/guides/documents/Sinkholes.pdf

[aaffmom]

I use The Villages Insurance and changed my American Integrity to US Coastal Property & Casualty administered by Cabrillo Coastal because the latter had sinkhole coverage for my property and house without inspection.

Safe Harbor is the company that Cabrillo represents

[Back9]

The Science Behind Florida’s Sinkhole Epidemic
|
Science | Smithsonian (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/science-behind-floridas-sinkhole-epidemic-180969158/)