Stockton: Proposal to pay shooters

[Trayderjoe]

Steve Lopez of the Los Angeles Times wrote a May 26, 2018 article entitled: "Stockton's young mayor has bold turnaround plan: Basic income and stipends for potential shooters" (link here (http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lopez-stockton-money-05272018-story.html))

"Stockton is about to award stipends of up to $1,000 a month to residents deemed most likely to shoot somebody. This program is called Advance Peace, and it's modeled after a crime reduction program in the Bay Area city of Richmond.

The idea is that a small number of people are responsible for a large percentage of violence, and offering them an alternative path — with counseling and case management over an 18-month period, along with a stipend if they stay the course — can be a good investment all around."

The article covers not just providing this stipend to the identified shooters, but to then expand it as a stipend to other Stockton residents.

So, they have identified criminals (how else would they know these people are responsible for violence?) and intend to, in effect, pay them non-requested extortion money to not commit a violent crime? Forget the counseling and case management, how will they know that the offender did not commit a violent crime anyway? Are they going to keep paying until the person is arrested? And what do they actually expect to happen after 18 months, that these criminals will now be honest tax paying members of society? Really?

What a sad testament to society that this is actually being considered. Our founding fathers must be spinning in their graves.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

We already pay for their defense, room and board, sometimes for life. If we can change a few of them, sounds like a good (cheaper) program to me.

:thumbup:

Don

[Fredman]

Another stupid decision from th looney state

[l2ridehd]

If they are so easy to identify that we can pay them, shouldn't we be able to stop them? Seems to me every time it happens it's someone who was under the radar who the police had no information about.

So my best guess is they will be paying the wrong people. What a great idea, paying people to not commit a crime. WOW, must be some idiot that is mayor there.

[BobnBev]

Only in Kalifornia

[Taltarzac725]

Stockton's young mayor has bold turnaround plan: Basic income and stipends for potential shooters (http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lopez-stockton-money-05272018-story.html)

This looks like an attempt to get kids out of gangs by giving them an alternative.

It is NOT about Parkland type sociopathes who shoot up schools.

[Fredster]

There is one line in the original post that says a lot!
“The idea is that a small number of people are responsible for a large percentage of violence”
Responsible people who are in the vast majority are already paying millions per year,
because of the laws created to supposedly deal with the few!

[manaboutown]

Where do I sign up to get the handouts?

[Fredster]

Where do I sign up to get the handouts?

If your a responsible citizen....no application for you!

[ColdNoMore]

Folks need to actually read the article. :oops:

I personally wouldn't be for it, even if it is only...an 18 month pilot program.

I found this really interesting though. :D

"Exciting" is not the way everyone describes the program.

"You've got to be kidding," Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and vice presidential running mate, tweeted last month.

But Tubbs responded with a Twitter touche.

"Actually modeled after the Alaska Permanent Fund," he wrote. "Are you familiar with it?"

The Alaska fund shares the wealth on state oil revenues, awarding residents roughly $2,000 a year.

The first thing you need to know about Stockton's stipend plans is that taxpayers aren't footing the bill.

Nor will they pay for Tubbs' "Stockton Scholars" program, which will tap a $20-million grant from the California Community Foundation in an effort to triple the number of Stockton students who go to college.


:popcorn:

[Kenswing]

They should try this in Chicago. With 36 shootings over the Memorial Day weekend alone they should have plenty of candidates. Although this was an improvement over last year..

[Daddymac]

How about,,, When you know who their are... SPEND JUST .05... THE END ,!!

[npwalters]

"Exciting" is not the way everyone describes the program.

"You've got to be kidding," Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and vice presidential running mate, tweeted last month.

But Tubbs responded with a Twitter touche.

"Actually modeled after the Alaska Permanent Fund," he wrote. "Are you familiar with it?"

The Alaska fund shares the wealth on state oil revenues, awarding residents roughly $2,000 a year.

The first thing you need to know about Stockton's stipend plans is that taxpayers aren't footing the bill.

Nor will they pay for Tubbs' "Stockton Scholars" program, which will tap a $20-million grant from the California Community Foundation in an effort to triple the number of Stockton students who go to college.

Absolutely NOT modeled after the Alaska Permanent Fund. That is a fund set up to pay a stipend to ALL Alaska original natives (regardless of their propensity toward crime). What a load of BS spoken by a small thinker in California.

[ColdNoMore]

"Exciting" is not the way everyone describes the program.

"You've got to be kidding," Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and vice presidential running mate, tweeted last month.

But Tubbs responded with a Twitter touche.

"Actually modeled after the Alaska Permanent Fund," he wrote. "Are you familiar with it?"

The Alaska fund shares the wealth on state oil revenues, awarding residents roughly $2,000 a year.

The first thing you need to know about Stockton's stipend plans is that taxpayers aren't footing the bill.

Nor will they pay for Tubbs' "Stockton Scholars" program, which will tap a $20-million grant from the California Community Foundation in an effort to triple the number of Stockton students who go to college.

Absolutely NOT modeled after the Alaska Permanent Fund. That is a fund set up to pay a stipend to ALL Alaska original natives

Might I suggest you do a little more research on the subject...since you are dead wrong? :oops:

It is given to ANY resident (lived in the state more than 1 year) who qualifies, including children of any age...NOT just to "original natives." :ohdear:




(regardless of their propensity toward crime). What a load of BS spoken by a small thinker in California.

But you know who's NOT included...and DOESN'T qualify?

Eligibility Requirements (https://pfd.alaska.gov/Eligibility/Requirements)

I was not:

Sentenced as a result of a felony conviction during 2017;
Incarcerated at any time during 2017 as the result of a felony conviction; or
Incarcerated at any time during 2017 as the result of a misdemeanor conviction in Alaska if convicted of a prior felony or two or more prior misdemeanors since January 1, 1997


Facts matter. :ho:

[Fredster]

We’ve had governmentsl entities giving money
to people for decades for doing nothing,
and it seems it only makes the
number of people doing nothing grow.
My guess is, if the $$$ solution doesn’t address the real cause of a problem,
there will be little or no success!

[redwitch]

This is based on a SUCCESSFUL program running in Richmond, CA. It includes counseling, training, mentoring. Richmond killings dropped from 46 to 11 in one year. Richmond has been known as a high-crime/gang city in the Bay Area for a long, long time.

Richmond, California: Paying kids not to kill - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/19/health/cash-for-criminals-richmond-california/index.html)

$1,000/month is a lot cheaper than prison. If it helps just one kid to get a new life, the price is cheap.

[blueash]

They should try this in Chicago. With 36 shootings over the Memorial Day weekend alone they should have plenty of candidates. Although this was an improvement over last year..

What makes people always mention Chicago? Are you aware of the national statistics that looks at fatal shootings per capita in the US and Chicago is not even in the top 5. It's 2017 rate is (https://www.thetrace.org/2018/04/highest-murder-rates-us-cities-list/)equal to Gracie's hometown of Cincinnati and that rate for Chicago is down double digits (https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/01/us/chicago-crime-drop-april/index.html) so far in 2018. Worst city... St Louis

Mentioning of Chicago and lying about its homicide rate have somehow become a common practice. Not sure why people can't understand the real rate has to be adjusted by population. And it is worth mentioning that NYC has a rate so low that such perceived safe places like Tulsa and Minneapolis and Dallas have murder rates several multiples of the rate in NYC.

[Kenswing]

What makes people always mention Chicago? Are you aware of the national statistics that looks at fatal shootings per capita in the US and Chicago is not even in the top 5. It's 2017 rate is (https://www.thetrace.org/2018/04/highest-murder-rates-us-cities-list/)equal to Gracie's hometown of Cincinnati and that rate for Chicago is down double digits (https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/01/us/chicago-crime-drop-april/index.html) so far in 2018. Worst city... St Louis

Mentioning of Chicago and lying about its homicide rate have somehow become a common practice. Not sure why people can't understand the real rate has to be adjusted by population. And it is worth mentioning that NYC has a rate so low that such perceived safe places like Tulsa and Minneapolis and Dallas have murder rates several multiples of the rate in NYC.

Which part of my post was a lie? :shrug:

Where did I even mention the murder rate?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

So do I understand this correctly? The city if Stockton is going to pay people to not commit crimes?

Imagine if the criminals came to the city and demanded payment for not committing crimes.

Didn't the Mafia have a program like that? "You pay us or your store might get destroyed."

[blueash]

There have long been programs where individuals from high risk groups have been rewarded with either cash or other incentives to do things that some might simply call behaving. Examples would include paying people to stay in school, to come to health clinic appointments for themselves or their children, to read books. At times the money came from government others from NGOs. The results have been mixed.
Your employer may have given you a bonus because you did your job well, showed up on time always, were available for overtime. That is being paid for behaving. You may have paid your children, or grandchildren for getting good grades.

Money is the carrot, incarceration is the stick. The carrot is much cheaper than the stick. Society is going to pay one way or the other. If the program works, and it seems to have elsewhere, then staying out of trouble may become a pattern for some or many of these at-risk people.

And I suspect most of you didn't read the linked story. The $1000/ month requires ongoing counseling and case management for 18 months and only pays if they "stay the course" And none of this is taxpayer money. An additional proposal from the mayor
$500 a month to a select group of residents. They'll be able to spend it as they wish, for 18 months, in a pilot program to test the impact of what's called guaranteed basic income.
($500 a month to a select group of residents. They'll be able to spend it as they wish, for 18 months, in a pilot program to test the impact of what's called guaranteed basic income.)

This is exactly what the Alaska Fund does, distributes cash to every citizen of Alaska to do with as they please.

[ColdNoMore]

There have long been programs where individuals from high risk groups have been rewarded with either cash or other incentives to do things that some might simply call behaving. Examples would include paying people to stay in school, to come to health clinic appointments for themselves or their children, to read books. At times the money came from government others from NGOs. The results have been mixed.
Your employer may have given you a bonus because you did your job well, showed up on time always, were available for overtime. That is being paid for behaving. You may have paid your children, or grandchildren for getting good grades.

Money is the carrot, incarceration is the stick. The carrot is much cheaper than the stick. Society is going to pay one way or the other. If the program works, and it seems to have elsewhere, then staying out of trouble may become a pattern for some or many of these at-risk people.

And I suspect most of you didn't read the linked story. The $1000/ month requires ongoing counseling and case management for 18 months and only pays if they "stay the course" And none of this is taxpayer money. An additional proposal from the mayor
$500 a month to a select group of residents. They'll be able to spend it as they wish, for 18 months, in a pilot program to test the impact of what's called guaranteed basic income.
($500 a month to a select group of residents. They'll be able to spend it as they wish, for 18 months, in a pilot program to test the impact of what's called guaranteed basic income.)

This is exactly what the Alaska Fund does, distributes cash to every citizen of Alaska to do with as they please.

Well stated! :thumbup:


Facts matter. :ho:

[CFrance]

This is based on a SUCCESSFUL program running in Richmond, CA. It includes counseling, training, mentoring. Richmond killings dropped from 46 to 11 in one year. Richmond has been known as a high-crime/gang city in the Bay Area for a long, long time.

Richmond, California: Paying kids not to kill - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/19/health/cash-for-criminals-richmond-california/index.html)

$1,000/month is a lot cheaper than prison. If it helps just one kid to get a new life, the price is cheap.

There have long been programs where individuals from high risk groups have been rewarded with either cash or other incentives to do things that some might simply call behaving. Examples would include paying people to stay in school, to come to health clinic appointments for themselves or their children, to read books. At times the money came from government others from NGOs. The results have been mixed.
Your employer may have given you a bonus because you did your job well, showed up on time always, were available for overtime. That is being paid for behaving. You may have paid your children, or grandchildren for getting good grades.

Money is the carrot, incarceration is the stick. The carrot is much cheaper than the stick. Society is going to pay one way or the other. If the program works, and it seems to have elsewhere, then staying out of trouble may become a pattern for some or many of these at-risk people.

And I suspect most of you didn't read the linked story. The $1000/ month requires ongoing counseling and case management for 18 months and only pays if they "stay the course" And none of this is taxpayer money. An additional proposal from the mayor
$500 a month to a select group of residents. They'll be able to spend it as they wish, for 18 months, in a pilot program to test the impact of what's called guaranteed basic income.
(http://$500 a month to a select group of residents. They'll be able to spend it as they wish, for 18 months, in a pilot program to test the impact of what's called guaranteed basic income.)

This is exactly what the Alaska Fund does, distributes cash to every citizen of Alaska to do with as they please.
A lot of posters won't want to read the links or listen to your reasoning because they might have to admit to the fallacy of their knee-jerk reactions.

[ColdNoMore]

A lot of posters won't want to read the links or listen to your reasoning because they might have to admit to the fallacy of their knee-jerk reactions.


:bigbow:


Facts matter. :ho: