Battery Watering Systems

[RVRoadie]

I found a place on the web that sells the Flow-rite Pro-Fill line of battery watering systems at a pretty good price. It is Jan Watercraft Products (http://janwp.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=JANWP&Category_Code=BWS). Just received a setup for my new Club Car.

I have used this line for many years, first on my RV, then last year when I got an older Par Car. It is very well designed and works with individual manifolds on each battery. So, for a 48v system you would have 24 individual valves (http://www.flow-rite.com/battery-watering/pro-fill/features/winged-valves) that snap into the correct manifolds (http://http://www.flow-rite.com/battery-watering/pro-fill/features/manifold) for your batteries. Rubber tubing and a fill port are included to connect the manifolds into a loop. It is very easy to install and only requires scissors to cut the tubing.

The 48v system runs $165, plus $20 for the hand pump. That allows you to stick one end of a short hose into a bottle of distilled water, then give it a few squeezes to top off the batteries. Shipping is free.

[zcaveman]

My 2008 EZGO came with one installed. I really like it. Clip the water supply onto the battery water connection and let the water flow until the wheel stops moving. Takes about 2 minutes.

[golfnut]

I also have the system from JWP and recommend it highly....gn

[RVRoadie]

Just sold my old Par Car without the battery watering system. If you are interested in purchasing this system used for $100, give me a call at 753-4958. It is set up for 8 6v batteries (US) and includes the hand pump.

[littleCedar]

So, no one has had any problems with Flow-Rite autofills???

No leaking lines or valves not shutting, causing over-filled cells?

Hmmmm!

Guess I'm the only one . . . and with two different fleets, one E Z Go and one Club Car.

Go figure.

:22yikes:

In the E Z Go fleet (60 carts) I worked with, with a 2008 autofill system that was not a Flow-Rite, E Z Go wound up replacing 117 batteries before they finally agreed to just re-do the lease early, with 2012's. The previous system was fraught with problems from the git-go, and when I took it over at 6 months old, and pulled autofills for a visual inspection, there were numerous dry cells.

After stonewalling it, E Z Go finally replaced the valves (floats) with shorter shafts. It then went from underfills, with dry cells, to overfills from not shutting off.

The 2012s came with Flow-Rites, and at the first sign of not working right, E Z Go replaced each defective system without hesitation or questioning.

I'm dealing with the same problem with a fleet of Florida Club Cars now.

[KBusch]

So, no one has had any problems with Flow-Rite autofills???

No leaking lines or valves not shutting, causing over-filled cells?

Hmmmm!

Guess I'm the only one . . . and with two different fleets, one E Z Go and one Club Car.

Go figure.

:22yikes:

In the E Z Go fleet (60 carts) I worked with, with a 2008 autofill system that was not a Flow-Rite, E Z Go wound up replacing 117 batteries before they finally agreed to just re-do the lease early, with 2012's. The previous system was fraught with problems from the git-go, and when I took it over at 6 months old, and pulled autofills for a visual inspection, there were numerous dry cells.

After stonewalling it, E Z Go finally replaced the valves (floats) with shorter shafts. It then went from underfills, with dry cells, to overfills from not shutting off.

The 2012s came with Flow-Rites, and at the first sign of not working right, E Z Go replaced each defective system without hesitation or questioning.

I'm dealing with the same problem with a fleet of Florida Club Cars now.

I hear ya, They over fill, leak, don't fill, if I had a cart I wouldn't put one on. I can fill the batteries and do a better job without one. However, they do have there place, but as I tell my customers, if you are able bodied to check the level, do it the old fashion way. I took one off a cart today as it ruined 2 of the guys batteries due to not filling the cells.

[blueash]

My EZ GO has a watering system. It seems to work well. Additionally if you just look at each cell there is a visible white ?float that you can see telling you that each cell is properly filled. Seems simple and with the built in backup check and not having to unscrew 48 caps every two weeks, worth the cost.

[KBusch]

My EZ GO has a watering system. It seems to work well. Additionally if you just look at each cell there is a visible white ?float that you can see telling you that each cell is properly filled. Seems simple and with the built in backup check and not having to unscrew 48 caps every two weeks, worth the cost.

That's what fools people into thinking the batteries have water in them, the problem is the float is stuck closed and no water is going in, thus running it out of water and ruining the battery. The single caps are just a 1/4 turn, so it takes all of 2 seconds to take the cap off, not really a big deal.

[littleCedar]

That's what fools people into thinking the batteries have water in them, the problem is the float is stuck closed and no water is going in, thus running it out of water and ruining the battery. The single caps are just a 1/4 turn, so it takes all of 2 seconds to take the cap off, not really a big deal.

Absolutely.

In our case, false readings eventually cost E Z Go 117 batteries, before they gave up and took 60 carts back, rewriting a new lease with new carts. That all started in 2009, on first-run 2008 RXVs, and they redid the lease in 2012.

It got to the point where half of our 30 carts were marked "do not use" because they would not do 18 holes. Of course, we had to send them out any way, knowing we'd be taking another out to them before too long. Most of them died on the furthest holes away.

Then, when some of the new carts had faulty autofills, they didn't try stonewalling it. They just replaced the bad autofills.

But, to those who have not had a problem, it's not a problem. If I was a single cart owner, I'd do it the old-fashioned way.
- - - - - -
I just had a similar problem with a fleet of Club Cars at my Florida course. It took four months of emailing and calling the dealer before he'd even look at what I was talking about. The one he looked at was just a minor problem, a leaking line. But, after that he said he'd look at all of them.

[OnTrack]

I thought I wanted an auto-fill system when I first got my cart, but after doing some research and reading a few threads here.....I'll stick to doing it myself.

What still astounds me, is the price they're getting for what amounts to about $10 worth of plastic. :oops:

I think there's a market.......for a simple do-it-yourself kit.

.

[littleCedar]

I think there's a market.......for a simple do-it-yourself kit.

.

Not that long ago, when I first started taking care of fleets at golf courses, we used a hose-end attachment the design of which is to shut off when the fluid got to the proper level.

It was unreliable, too.

I still see them around.

We had some older "vanilla" Club Cars, along with the new Precedents, at my Florida course, and I filled all of them manually. They had the "3-Cap" apparatus so each battery was just one removal and put-on.

[littleCedar]

I was suspicious of a cart today because I got a blinking red light on the charger. It also smelled sulfury and there was excessive heat in the battery compartment while charging.

I spot-checked the fluid level in the batteries, and the ones I checked were OK.

Then I filled it with the Flow-Rite system. One valve did not close and that cell overfilled.

[littleCedar]

We serviced batteries at my northern course today . . . with the Flow-rite autofills. Several did not work properly, either leaking lines or valves not working and cells overfilling.

I was not keeping the log, but I'd say about 15 out of 65.
- - - - - -
I do have to add that no one seems as concerned about this as me. Another manager, the Head Pro, and the GM.

But, then, neither of them went through the ordeal from 2009 through 2011, except they came in on the end of it . . . what the failures led to . . . 1/2 a fleet that we couldn't even put out on the course.

[littleCedar]

We serviced batteries at my northern course today . . . with the Flow-rite autofills. Several did not work properly, either leaking lines or valves not working and cells overfilling.

I was not keeping the log, but I'd say about 15 out of 65.
- - - - - -
I do have to add that no one seems as concerned about this as me. Another manager, the Head Pro, and the GM.

But, then, neither of them went through the ordeal from 2009 through 2011, except they came in on the end of it . . . what the failures led to . . . 1/2 a fleet that we couldn't even put out of the course.

I looked at our "form", and it was 14 carts out of 65. Leaky lines and sticky valves.

It sounds like our E Z Go tech has a way of repairing them. Something about baking soda, which we appear to have an ample supply of, it coming on board during my Winter absence.

We have the four 12-volt battery systems, and my co-manager told me that back one is problematic for terminal corrosion and access.

[littleCedar]

I serviced all the batteries myself the other day, and recorded the problems. That's the first time I've done it myself, so know what's going on, since last year.

There were no leaky lines.

But, at least 20 of the 60 carts had at least one cell that the valve did not shut off, so it overfilled.

I told our E Z Go rep about it last month, and he/we put it on hold until I could provide him more information.

Now I can.

[ajbrown]

I hear ya, They over fill, leak, don't fill, if I had a cart I wouldn't put one on. I can fill the batteries and do a better job without one. However, they do have there place, but as I tell my customers, if you are able bodied to check the level, do it the old fashion way. I took one off a cart today as it ruined 2 of the guys batteries due to not filling the cells.

Folks have much more experience with these systems than I, so let me ask a question. What type of system was it where you found cells that were not filling. Was it gravity or the bulb type?

My thinking is that the bulb type would open a valve even if a bit stuck due to the pressure created during the squeeze.

I reserve the right to be wrong, I am just curious. I check mine every so often and have yet to see an issue, but not filling a cell is a big fear.

Thanks

[littleCedar]

We are talking about the auto-fill systems, like this one:

https://www.flow-rite.com/battery-watering/pro-fill

They are supposed to be self contained and you are not supposed to ever have to take the caps off, etc.

Based on the three fleets I have serviced that had them, no one other than me seems to care if they are working or not. They just hook them up and don't pay any attention to leaks or overfills. I have been the only one to call it to the attention of the dealers or manufacturer.

I know how important it is because I saw E Z Go stonewall a system that didn't work, and wind up replacing 117 batteries before they gave up and replaced the fleet.

[littleCedar]

I serviced all the batteries myself the other day, and recorded the problems. That's the first time I've done it myself, so know what's going on, since last year.

There were no leaky lines.

But, at least 20 of the 60 carts had at least one cell that the valve did not shut off, so it overfilled.

I told our E Z Go rep about it last month, and he/we put it on hold until I could provide him more information.

Now I can.

24 of 61 to be exact.

[littleCedar]

4 of our carts show a battery/charger fault every morning . . . a slow, single flashing red light instead of the solid green. Same carts, any charger they are on, parked at random each day.

At battery filling yesterday, all four had valves that did not close, so cells that overfilled.

An hour after they were plugged back in, they were hot and sulfurey smelling.

This has been reported for the last three months and we've been told there is nothing wrong with them, despite the "Charger/Battery Fault" chart placed on our wall by the manufacturer.

I have learned that if you ignore these problems, it is not like teeth . . . . they will not go away.

[KBusch]

4 of our carts show a battery/charger fault every morning . . . a slow, single flashing red light instead of the solid green. Same carts, any charger they are on, parked at random each day.

At battery filling yesterday, all four had valves that did not close, so cells that overfilled.

An hour after they were plugged back in, they were hot and sulfurey smelling.

This has been reported for the last three months and we've been told there is nothing wrong with them, despite the "Charger/Battery Fault" chart placed on our wall by the manufacturer.

I have learned that if you ignore these problems, it is not like teeth . . . . they will not go away.

Having dealt with many OEM manufacturers on warranty issue, the first thing you will learn is they will do everything in their power to defuse the issue, especially when it comes to fleets. They know, if it happens to one fleet it will happen to another fleet. They are taught to explain it away rather than say there is an issue. If you want results, be the squeaky wheel and log those warranty repairs, that gets their attention.

[littleCedar]

Having dealt with many OEM manufacturers on warranty issue, the first thing you will learn is they will do everything in their power to defuse the issue, especially when it comes to fleets. They know, if it happens to one fleet it will happen to another fleet. They are taught to explain it away rather than say there is an issue. If you want results, be the squeaky wheel and log those warranty repairs, that gets their attention.

True.

Here's some of my experience with manufacturers stonewalling problems:

RXV Auto-Brake Problem III (http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-ezgo/34788-rxv-auto-brake-problem-iii.html)

As part of that, E Z Go wound up replacing 117 batteries, but the fleet was so far gone that they wound up replacing it with a new fleet ahead of schedule.

One problem is in dealing with dealers rather than direct with the manufacturer's (techs). That adds an extra layer you have to peel off.

I've dealt with it both ways, with both E Z Go and Club Car.

I document by email, copy everyone in the loop, and keep at it.

The 2008 problem took until 2012 to resolve.

[littleCedar]

Serviced batteries today with the Flow Rite.

Still having problems, some valves not closing, causing overfills.

[littleCedar]

We are being asked to do more documentation of our battery problems in our 2012 fleet. As I've mentioned, the autofills have not been working properly and some carts are routinely dying on the first 18 holes.

As for the four carts that always show charger faults, slow flashing red light, a battery temperature fault, we took the temps of each of the batteries during charging, before faulting, and they were all in the 140° range. Our "control" carts were all in the 80-90° range.

I took the voltage of each of the batteries after disconnecting them from the charger, and one was in the 10's, suggesting a short. Some were near 12.0, suggesting end of life.

Two carts died on the first 18 yesterday, and when I got them in, a battery in each was reading 6 volts, while the other three in each were reading 12.3-12.5.

Yeah, the back battery, the one that corrodes.

So, now I guess I will be in the process of taking voltage readings on all the batteries.

[littleCedar]

I am thinking we should do the lazer thermometer and voltage testing on every battery where the autofill has failed.

[littleCedar]

We are being asked to do more documentation of our battery problems in our 2012 fleet. As I've mentioned, the autofills have not been working properly and some carts are routinely dying on the first 18 holes.

As for the four carts that always show charger faults, slow flashing red light, a battery temperature fault, we took the temps of each of the batteries during charging, before faulting, and they were all in the 140° range. Our "control" carts were all in the 80-90° range.

I took the voltage of each of the batteries after disconnecting them from the charger, and one was in the 10's, suggesting a short. Some were near 12.0, suggesting end of life.

Two carts died on the first 18 yesterday, and when I got them in, a battery in each was reading 6 volts, while the other three in each were reading 12.3-12.5.

Yeah, the back battery, the one that corrodes.

So, now I guess I will be in the process of taking voltage readings on all the batteries.

Each of the four carts with hot batteries during charging have regularly had autofill failures, valves not closing and cells overfilling.

[littleCedar]

Are golf carts not a big deal in The Villages any more?

:confused:

[ajbrown]

I for one am very much into reading folks experiences with all things electric carts. I have read all of your posts and am certainly interested with your findings.

Like many threads, I just have nothing of value to add :lipsrsealed:

Oh wait, I have one thing. Thank you for taking the time to share what you are experiencing with auto fill systems.

[Blackie]

I for one am very much into reading folks experiences with all things electric carts. I have read all of your posts and am certainly interested with your findings.

Like many threads, I just have nothing of value to add :lipsrsealed:

Oh wait, I have one thing. Thank you for taking the time to share what you are experiencing with auto fill systems.

My sentiments exactly.

Additionally from your results I have no wish to add a watering system, I am happy to take 15 minutes every 3 weeks to check the cells properly.

[littleCedar]

Thanks.

Did I milk those accolades adequately?

Here's another note of caution about the Flowrite autofills. The hose end assembly, the working part, is not built substantial enough for typical golf course applications, giving who and where they are used.

I got ours out last year on a service day, and it was broken (no explanation for that). Today was service day and a careful, sincere co-worker who wants to learn more about how to take care of our carts was helping me. I turned it over to him when it came time for me to go deal with customers.

When I came back he said, "I did a bad. I dropped it." I said, "Yeah, and it broke in the clear plastic section, I bet, which is called the flow indicater."

Yup.

One little drop on concrete, or even holding it wrong, and that section of plastic snaps.

You have to order another one then.

[littleCedar]

We have more or less been asked to document/determine for ourselves what is causing our carts to die on the course and to have charger faults. So, today I went in early, disconnected the charger, and took voltage readings on all the batteries.

Using the axiom that a fresh 12 volt battery will read 12.8-12.9, and that the closer it gets to 12.0, the closer it is to the end of its useful life, most of the batteries were in the 12.6-12.8 range.

There were 20, out of 60, that had readings of 12.4 or lower. Some had 11s and 10s, meaning shorted cells.

Every cart that has been a problem had at least one low battery.

These are 2012s, and have been in service around 15 months.

[KBusch]

How many rounds of golf are your carts seeing say on a weekly basis?

[littleCedar]

How many rounds of golf are your carts seeing say on a weekly basis?

Maybe 7 6 or 7 months a year, and none to 2 the other months.

Today and tomorrow we will be starting the day with 130 golfers. We were expecting our factory tech today, so I had 25 carts culled out for him to look at. He didn't show and by the time I left at 1:00, I had put out all but the worst 6 or 7 carts.

On our 2008 fleet, by 2011 we had 30 carts segregated to not go out, and only 30 that could. Sometime we had to put the bad ones out, knowing we would have good ones back in when the bad ones starting dying. & they did every day.

We're heading there again, with all the same problems, and we're doing what we can to stem it off.

[KBusch]

Maybe 7 6 or 7 months a year, and none to 2 the other months.

Today and tomorrow we will be starting the day with 130 golfers. We were expecting our factory tech today, so I had 25 carts culled out for him to look at. He didn't show and by the time I left at 1:00, I had put out all but the worst 6 or 7 carts.

On our 2008 fleet, by 2011 we had 30 carts segregated to not go out, and only 30 that could. Sometime we had to put the bad ones out, knowing we would have good ones back in when the bad ones starting dying. & they did every day.

We're heading there again, with all the same problems, and we're doing what we can to stem it off.

You have a combo of issues. Sounds as though you have issues with the watering system, but I'd also say the carts having the 4 12 volts in them is also an issue. We know, 4 12volts don't work very well. Your next fleet you will be OK, and Im sure the manufacturer will take care of it.

[littleCedar]

Speaking of . . .

Factory tech was here today. He doesn't care about low voltage readings, unless they're in the 10's.

But he does care about "hot" batteries, ones that get hot when charging. We've got some more of those, so I'll be using the laser thermometer.

I also will not stop taking voltage readings, since we are having problems with some of those carts.

Also, nothing has been done, or even suggested something will be done, about the autofills not working.

It feels like 2011 all over again, when 1/2 our fleet could not even go out on the course. If you will look at the other forum I linked to, I was working on those problems, trying to get the manufacturer to listen to us from August, 2009:

08-04-2009, 06:01 PM #1
cartboy
Gone Wild

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 329 RXV Auto Brake Problem
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RXV Auto Brake

Looks like I will be the one to burst the bubble.

I'm searching for others who are having problems with the new rxv auto-brake.

Our fleet of 60 have been in service since last Fall and they are just now exhibiting problems . . . specifically, the auto-brake is locking up. About a couple each day now.

Bummer.

Anyone else?

Since it is new technology, we have to share our experiences. The fix, whatever it will be, will be a new fix . . . for a new problem.

(guess we're the Guinnea pigs on this one)

Let's work together to find out what's wrong.

[KBusch]

EZGO has always been concerned about a "hot pack", even when the cars were 36 volts. Since your checking voltages all the time you should be able to find the ones that are holding the pack up, remove those batteries and put one in that you know is good, that way it wont ruin the other batteries in that set. Granted it is a lot of work, rather than wait for the factory to come in and do something. OR you can just wait until they fail and let them deal with it. I've taken care of many fleet cars and you can score major points with management (and possible raise) by showing you know what is going on.

[littleCedar]

I know you know what I know.

I have been self-educating via the Internet on deep cycle battery technology for about five years, since I set up a solar electric system for our boat dock.

I know I'm at a roadblock now with our factory tech, and I'm hoping someone viewing can help me.

What I want to know is how voltage readings on a full charge affect both remaining useful life and what a battery can do on each charge (how many holes/rounds of golf).

Common sense tells me that four batteries reading 12.8 volts at full charge are better than four batteries reading 12.1.

Anyone?

[ajbrown]

I know you know what I know.

I have been self-educating via the Internet on deep cycle battery technology for about five years, since I set up a solar electric system for our boat dock.

I know I'm at a roadblock now with our factory tech, and I'm hoping someone viewing can help me.

What I want to know is how voltage readings on a full charge affect both remaining useful life and what a battery can do on each charge (how many holes/rounds of golf).

Common sense tells me that four batteries reading 12.8 volts at full charge are better than four batteries reading 12.1.

Anyone?

I am going to post this link with the assumption you have seen it. Nice SOC chart at bottom of link.

Trojan Battery Company (http://www.trojanbattery.com/BatteryMaintenance/Testing.aspx)

<!-- I am a DIY guy with a huge fleet of two carts, so caveat reader -->

It is hard to know how far carts will go. Even if a battery will take a full charge (> 12.73) it may still fail under load. That said, the fact it will take a full charge is a good starting indicator that the battery is ok.

IMO, a battery that can only be charged to 12.1 is no good or on the edge of no good. It is already at 50% capacity. That battery will impact the whole pack and will be extremely hard to predict range. As the pack discharges that battery will go much quicker than the others. That battery will have a negative affect on the pack during load and also when charging. The only way I know of to predict capacity is a discharge test, or a poor man's discharge test, taking voltages after 18 holes, then after 36 once in a while.

This statement here by the dealer is crazy to me:
Factory tech was here today. He doesn't care about low voltage readings, unless they're in the 10's.

In the 10s :shocked:?. A battery that is in the 10s is dead. That seems crazy to me, or I am about to learn something new when someone straightens me out...

See, we are still interesting in sparky conversations....:thumbup:

[littleCedar]

From my self-study, a reading in the 10's means a shorted cell. Something in the 11's means all cells are still doing something.

As far as the factory tech, I agree. Heat is a problem, but so is low voltage readings. Every tutorial I've looked at suggests taking voltage readings on fully-charged batteries, after "burning off" a bit, say by turning on the headlights a short time.

I am trying to establish exactly how to interpret low voltage readings then.

That is as opposed to what I am considering to be OK, all four reading 12.5 or above.

In any event, I am trying to stay ahead of our debacle on the 2008's, when I first detected problems in August, 2009, and by 2011 half our fleet was not suitable to go on the course, because nothing was done until it was too late. Even after 117 batteries were replaced, it was still too late. I am not given much credit for having gone this before.
- - - - - -
As an example: going by the chart in the link, the same or similar as several others I have found, if a battery reads 12.1, and is at "50% of charge", does that mean it will discharge under use in 50% fewer holes on the golf course, or does that mean that 50% of its useful life is over, but it will still do as many holes per charge, or some combination?

It certainly does not sound OK to be at 50% of charge when it is "fully charged".

From the several tutorials online, it is fairly obvious that the closer a reading is to 12.0, the nearer a battery is to end-o-life. So, what about three reading 12.4, and one reading 12.1, or three reading 12.1, or four reading 12.3? Will multiple low-reading batteries reduce holes per charge?

etc., etc., etc.

[ajbrown]

<stuff snipped by Alan for brevity>

As an example: going by the chart in the link, the same or similar as several others I have found, if a battery reads 12.1, and is at "50% of charge", does that mean it will discharge under use in 50% fewer holes on the golf course, or does that mean that 50% of its useful life is over, but it will still do as many holes per charge, or some combination?

It certainly does not sound OK to be at 50% of charge when it is "fully charged".

From the several tutorials online, it is fairly obvious that the closer a reading is to 12.0, the nearer a battery is to end-o-life. So, what about three reading 12.4, and one reading 12.1, or three reading 12.1, or four reading 12.3? Will multiple low-reading batteries reduce holes per charge?

etc., etc., etc.

50% state of charge is an indicator of how much energy is left in the battery for this charge cycle, i.e., how many holes it will go. It is not an indicator that it has 50% useful life left. In fact a battery that can only be charged to 50% SOC is likely nearing end of life. IMO that is very low.

Here is a graph I did some time ago in which I tracked the pack voltage for two separate rides. All packs will have their own line if you were to chart them during usage as I did. The cart charted below had a good pack and could go quite far as it has 8-6v batteries.

Based on my chart the cart looks like it could theoretically go about 75-80 miles before causing great harm to the pack. Now look at the same line but start at 50% SOC. Looks like I could go 32-35 miles if I started with an SOC of 50%.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af146/ajbrown2007/totv/DSC_0389.jpg (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/ajbrown2007/media/totv/DSC_0389.jpg.html)

[littleCedar]

The failing autofills are an issue on the back burner now. It does not even come up with our factory tech.

The truth of it is that there does not appear to be a correlation between low voltage readings, failed autofills, corroded terminals, or which battery. It seems to be random.

Our tech told me he does not care about voltage readings, just batteries that are hot when they are charging. We are taking readings of that, too. Most are 80-90° when charging. The hot ones are 130-140°.

I have self-studied deep cycle batteries for a number of years, starting when I put together a solar electric system for a boat dock.

The general axiom has always been that the closer a 12-volt battery gets to 12.0 volts at full charge, the closer it is to being toast. I have emails from "battery people" to that affect.

In the last week I have visited a half-dozen websites tutoring on solar systems, RVs, golf carts, etc., and most of them agree with that. Most of them have tables like this:

State of Charge Voltage

100% 12.7
75% 12.4
50% 12.2
25% 12.0
Discharged 11.9

Or, here is 11.9 on another one:

20% (Cells die soon at this point. Bye-bye battery.) 11.80-12.00

and here's another one:

Discharged 11.90

But, both E Z Go and US Battery have sent me their tables. I won't post it all, but they are saying 11.9 is:

40% 11.96

So, figure it out for yourself . . . the battle I will be up against.

[littleCedar]

50% state of charge is an indicator of how much energy is left in the battery for this charge cycle, i.e., how many holes it will go. It is not an indicator that it has 50% useful life left. In fact a battery that can only be charged to 50% SOC is likely nearing end of life. IMO that is very low.

Here is a graph I did some time ago in which I tracked the pack voltage for two separate rides. All packs will have their own line if you were to chart them during usage as I did. The cart charted below had a good pack and could go quite far as it has 8-6v batteries.

Based on my chart the cart looks like it could theoretically go about 75-80 miles before causing great harm to the pack. Now look at the same line but start at 50% SOC. Looks like I could go 32-35 miles if I started with an SOC of 50%.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af146/ajbrown2007/totv/DSC_0389.jpg (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/ajbrown2007/media/totv/DSC_0389.jpg.html)

So, as indicated in my last post, it is all about what is considered 50%, or 20%, or discharged.

For a 48-volt system, some references show 20% State of Charge to be 48 volts; yours 46.62; another 46.32. Trojan has it at 46.64. E Z Go & US Battery has it at 47.92.

Well, it can't be all of them.

I checked a cart with brand new batteries, with a full charge, and it was 12.79, 12.80, 12.74 & 12.79 = 51.12.

When I check carts we are having problems with, dying on the first 18, I get readings like 12.1 on one battery. According to your graph, four batteries reading 12.1 are at 50%, so the cart would likely be dying on the course fairly quickly.

I went out to exchange one cart, and the guy in the foursome behind that one thought we came for his! The guy following me to push me back in gave his cart to the other guy. So, neither of us made it back in. Those two carts each had readings of 12.3 in 3 batteries, and 6.3 in the fourth. That would be 43.2, and they were still limping along on level ground.

Regardless, we should not be having these problems with one-year-old, top-of-the-line carts.

I'm doing my best to draw conclusions, and report to my higher-ups, with an inexact science.

[littleCedar]

It's kinda funny really . . . if you want your batteries to last longer, you just put out a table with low voltages on it. :agree:

[littleCedar]

Just for yucks, here's the table figures for 12-volt batteries. The Tech says they will not replace one unless it is down to 10.5 volts after 55 minutes.

I have not found any other deep cycle battery table that says a 12-volt battery reading less than 12-volts when fully charged is any good at all.

Anyone else?


TABLE 1. State of charge as related to specific gravity and open circuit voltage

Percentage of Charge


100
12.73

90
12.62

80
12.5

70
12.37

60
12.24

50
12.1

40
11.96

30
11.81

20
11.66

10
11.51

[KBusch]

Big business product support guys are told to play it down. If you ask them they wont be able to remember the last time they heard about one of their carts breaking.

Just forget about what they tell you and go with what you know...they will come around, most of the time when it goes to a major catastrophe.

I was told by a battery company that it was ok for those 12 volt batteries to be charging in the 16 volt range. This was suppose to be coming from a battery expert. Hang tight, let the batteries fail, and they will come to the rescue if they want to keep the course.

[littleCedar]

Hang tight, let the batteries fail, and they will come to the rescue if they want to keep the course.

As they did in 2011, when they replaced 117 batteries, and then gave up and redid the lease with new carts.

I am just trying to prevent the two rows of carts that could not go out on the course while we waited for them to take action.

[littleCedar]

Here's another note of caution about the Flowrite autofills. The hose end assembly, the working part, is not built substantial enough for typical golf course applications, giving who and where they are used.

I got ours out last year on a service day, and it was broken (no explanation for that). Today was service day and a careful, sincere co-worker who wants to learn more about how to take care of our carts was helping me. I turned it over to him when it came time for me to go deal with customers.

When I came back he said, "I did a bad. I dropped it." I said, "Yeah, and it broke in the clear plastic section, I bet, which is called the flow indicater."

Yup.

One little drop on concrete, or even holding it wrong, and that section of plastic snaps.

You have to order another one then.

$250 for another one!!!! and you cannot order just the part that broke.

So, I wrapped the flimsy plastic areas of the end assembly tightly with electrical tape, several layers, and serviced batteries yesterday. That's definitely just a temporary fix. When we get a new one, I am going to wrapped it in something . . . do what shoulda been done to begin with.

Some valves still not closing, so some cells are overfilling.

Yeah, I know the end result of that . . . but it does not matter if our tech does not care.