What is truth?

[fw102807]

In these days of Perception Management who is to say what is actually true? Nobody should attack someone else for what they believe is actually true.

"Perception Management is a Propaganda technique that involves carefully altering the perceptions of a target audience to suit the objectives of the sponsor, and is an essential part of modern Information Warfare. The term originated within the U.S. Military as part of their Psyops program, describing how selective information is provided (or denied) to a target audience to influence their emotions, motives and objective reasoning in order to promote a change in behaviour that is favourable to the sponsor.

According to one author, Deception and Disinformation are important ingredients of Perception Management; getting the target audience to believe whatever the sponsor wants them to believe regardless of the truth or validity of the information being promoted. As specified by the U.S. Department of Defense, Perception Management combines truth projection, operations security, cover and deception, and psychological operations".

[Taltarzac725]

In these days of Perception Management who is to say what is actually true? Nobody should attack someone else for what they believe is actually true.

"Perception Management is a Propaganda technique that involves carefully altering the perceptions of a target audience to suit the objectives of the sponsor, and is an essential part of modern Information Warfare. The term originated within the U.S. Military as part of their Psyops program, describing how selective information is provided (or denied) to a target audience to influence their emotions, motives and objective reasoning in order to promote a change in behaviour that is favourable to the sponsor.

According to one author, Deception and Disinformation are important ingredients of Perception Management; getting the target audience to believe whatever the sponsor wants them to believe regardless of the truth or validity of the information being promoted. As specified by the U.S. Department of Defense, Perception Management combines truth projection, operations security, cover and deception, and psychological operations".

Truth | philosophy and logic | Britannica.com (https://www.britannica.com/topic/truth-philosophy-and-logic)

Philosophers, historians, journalists and especially lawyers talk about this a lot.

What is a fact in other words and how much it corresponds to reality.

I would not look to advertisers for the truth though nor the military using psych ops to undermine the morale of their adversary and their enemies supporters.

In legal cases like that of Casey Anthony the opposing counsels shed a light on certain facts and kept others in darkness to sway the jury according to their clients' interests. And then the jury was supposed to try to figure out what actually happened even though some things that actually happened would always be out of the light.

[bandsdavis]

As my college marketing professor used to say, "A belief firmly held will beat the facts every day." All too often what some people believe to be "the truth" is nothing more than a belief or opinion. But if they believe it fervently, they will not be disuaded.

[ColdNoMore]

As my college marketing professor used to say, "A belief firmly held will beat the facts every day." All too often what some people believe to be "the truth" is nothing more than a belief or opinion. But if they believe it fervently, they will not be disuaded.

Yep.


Giving equal credence to those who think the earth his flat, no children were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary or there was a pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza parlor with no basement...is simply beyond ludicrous.

:ohdear:

[Spoiler]

I find a lot of this to be vaguely specific...

[Tom C]

Something to ponder... how come the good guys always eventually win in war?

They are us.

[Taltarzac725]

Something to ponder... how come the good guys always eventually win in war?

They are us.

Actually they often lose. Also depends on whom you see are "the good guys". Which is a matter of opinion.

Who are the good guys in the Battle of Carrhae? Battle of Carrhae - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae)

[graciegirl]

Yep.


Giving equal credence to those who think the earth his flat, no children were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary or there was a pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza parlor with no basement...is simply beyond ludicrous.

:ohdear:

I have never met anyone who believed any of those things, but am reading a lot from people who believe in CBD oil.

[ColdNoMore]

I find a lot of this to be vaguely specific...

That's probably just due to..."substantiated rumors." :oops:

[fw102807]

Actually they often lose. Also depends on whom you see are "the good guys". Which is a matter of opinion.

Don't go there Tal, I do not want this to go south. The only point here is no one should attack anyone else for what they believe. We all perceive things differently and everyone firmly believes they are right.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I have never met anyone who believed any on those things, but am reading a lot about CBD oil.

I tried CBD oil for month and it did nothing for me. I was disappointed, especially after hearing from several unbiased sources that "it really works".

[Taltarzac725]

Don't go there Tal, I do not want this to go south. The only point here is no one should attack anyone else for what they believe. We all perceive things differently and everyone firmly believes they are right.

Actually, studying philosophy kind of makes one reluctant to make such statements.

On the other hand, I do remember losing a friend who was a fellow U of Denver Librarianship student because he went back to the U of Mosul Library to work and our letters became more and more bitter because he thought all people in the West seemed to think a certain way. He gradually became radicalized and wanted to go fight the Iranians. And he was facing a violent death in case the Iranians got to Mosul. The threat of his city being invaded changed things. This was during the Iran-Iraq war.

We exchanged letters for a few years after we both left Denver.

Not sure what happened to him when ISIS destroyed the library at the U of Mosul.

I certainly see ISIS as evil.

[graciegirl]

I do believe that we, the American public are getting jacked around by media that we used to be able to trust. But not because they give us fake news, but that they present it in a way that the authors opinion is frequently the title of the article and her/his opinion is the main focus.

I so long for presentation of the news like it used to be,without editorial comment on the nightly News from the big three networks.

I am not entertained by the late night comedy shows endless focus on the President, nor would I be if they would switch parties. I want funny stuff like Johnny Carson used to do.

I am also not able to get used to people being attacked and shown inhospitable treatment for their beliefs by owners of restaurants and casts of stage plays.

[Boomer]

I just wish more people would look inside their own minds -- and hearts -- and experience, and ask themselves why they believe what they believe. I mean, really -- why?

I know smart, kind people who are confusing the heck out of me by believing everything they are told to believe -- by their channel of choice -- which they refuse to change -- even to PBS -- just once in a while -- that's all I ask -- just sometimes look at a different channel. (I do. It is not easy but I do it.)

[Bucco]

I just wish more people would look inside their own minds -- and hearts -- and experience, and ask themselves why they believe what they believe. I mean, really -- why?

I know smart, kind people who are confusing the heck out of me by believing everything they are told to believe -- by their channel of choice.

It used to be a joke, that "channel of choice", but they are completely and totally without thought.....seeing where they keep losing advertisers..........

[ColdNoMore]

I just wish more people would look inside their own minds -- and hearts -- and experience, and ask themselves why they believe what they believe. I mean, really -- why?

I know smart, kind people who are confusing the heck out of me by believing everything they are told to believe -- by their channel of choice -- which they refuse to change -- even to PBS -- just once in a while -- that's all -- just sometimes.

YEP! :ohdear:

[fw102807]

I just wish more people would look inside their own minds -- and hearts -- and experience, and ask themselves why they believe what they believe. I mean, really -- why?

I know smart, kind people who are confusing the heck out of me by believing everything they are told to believe -- by their channel of choice -- which they refuse to change -- even to PBS -- just once in a while -- that's all I ask -- just sometimes look at a different channel. (I do. It is not easy, but I do it.)

That was the message. This was NOT supposed to be about politics but about not believing everything they see.

[Moderator]

This thread is shifting toward political. Several posts have been deleted for that reason. Further posting of political comments will result in the thread being closed or deleted.

Moderator

[Polar Bear]

This thread is shifting toward political. Several posts have been deleted for that reason. Further posting of political comments will result in the thread being closed or deleted.

Moderator
Thanks, Mod. I was just about to post that I left the political forum to escape this kind of talk. :)

[BobnBev]

I have never met anyone who believed any of those things, but am reading a lot from people who believe in CBD oil.

There is no better oil than Mobil 1, full synthetic, probably 5W30.:popcorn:

[fw102807]

Moderator this thread is hopeless please just close it.

[BK001]

FW -- One of My Favorite all-time favorite poems says it all -- especially the last sentence:

The Six Blind Men of Industan
By John Godrey Saxe

There were six men of Hindustan,
to learning much inclined,
Who went to see an elephant,
though all of them were blind,
That each by observation
might satisfy his mind.

The first approached the elephant,
and happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
at once began to bawl,
"This mystery of an elephant
is very like a wall."

The second, feeling of the tusk,
cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an elephant
is very like a spear."

The third approached the elephant,
and happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
thus boldly up and spake,
"I see," quoth he,
"the elephant is very like a snake."

The fourth reached out an eager hand,
and felt above the knee,
"What this most wondrous beast
is like is very plain" said he,
"'Tis clear enough the elephant
is very like a tree."

The fifth who chanced to touch the ear
said, "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
deny the fact who can;
This marvel of an elephant
is very like a fan."

The sixth no sooner had begun
about the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
that fell within his scope;
"I see," said he, "the elephant
is very like a rope."

So six blind men of Hindustan
disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
exceeding stiff and strong;
Though each was partly in the right,
they all were in the wrong!

[fw102807]

FW -- One of My Favorite all-time favorite poems says it all -- especially the last sentence:

The Six Blind Men of Industan
By John Godrey Saxe

There were six men of Hindustan,
to learning much inclined,
Who went to see an elephant,
though all of them were blind,
That each by observation
might satisfy his mind.

The first approached the elephant,
and happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
at once began to bawl,
"This mystery of an elephant
is very like a wall."

The second, feeling of the tusk,
cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an elephant
is very like a spear."

The third approached the elephant,
and happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
thus boldly up and spake,
"I see," quoth he,
"the elephant is very like a snake."

The fourth reached out an eager hand,
and felt above the knee,
"What this most wondrous beast
is like is very plain" said he,
"'Tis clear enough the elephant
is very like a tree."

The fifth who chanced to touch the ear
said, "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
deny the fact who can;
This marvel of an elephant
is very like a fan."

The sixth no sooner had begun
about the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
that fell within his scope;
"I see," said he, "the elephant
is very like a rope."

So six blind men of Hindustan
disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
exceeding stiff and strong;
Though each was partly in the right,
they all were in the wrong!

Thanks BK. That does sum it up quite nicely.

[Kenswing]

There is no better oil than Mobil 1, full synthetic, probably 5W30.:popcorn:
Chevron Delo 400 15W40.. Buy it by the 50 gallon drum.. lol

[My Post]

I find as I age I am definitely more open minded about certain "truths". Like there is NO WAY Lee H Oswald acted alone and no way Jack Ruby just woke up and decided to kill LHO.

[Taltarzac725]

THE X FILES the truth is out there - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__jTJLEIRnQ)

Where's Mulder and Scully?

[Shbullet]

What kind of post is this? Has it been raining for the past month or something?

[fw102807]

What kind of post is this? Has it been raining for the past month or something?

It was about not believing everything you see before it got hijacked but now it appears it is about oil. Do you have a favourite?