An Historic Day

[Guest]

Congratulations to the majority of Democrats and the Administration who stayed the course and completed the initial structure of health care reform. The millions spent to apply unprecedented pressure from special interests and the fear mongers who stirred up irrational arguments were, for once, not enough to stop a critical step forward for this nation.
Also, the Executive Order eliminating abortion funding and the 'fixes' make this first reform package even better than most of us thought could ever be accomplished by this Congress.
My faith in the system has been buoyed up for the first time in a long time.

[Guest]

Congratulations to the majority of Democrats and the Administration who stayed the course and completed the initial structure of health care reform. The millions spent to apply unprecedented pressure from special interests and the fear mongers who stirred up irrational arguments were, for once, not enough to stop a critical step forward for this nation.
Also, the Executive Order eliminating abortion funding and the 'fixes' make this first reform package even better than most of us thought could ever be accomplished by this Congress.
My faith in the system has been buoyed up for the first time in a long time.

I'm not going to comment on your uniformed and naive statement, but you'll regret your euphoria once the impact of the travesty in Congress and the endless lies of our disgrace for a President are fully revealed. This is a day that will live in infamy; the day our freedom as a people were lost.

[Guest]

Congratulations to the majority of Democrats and the Administration who stayed the course and completed the initial structure of health care reform. The millions spent to apply unprecedented pressure from special interests and the fear mongers who stirred up irrational arguments were, for once, not enough to stop a critical step forward for this nation.
Also, the Executive Order eliminating abortion funding and the 'fixes' make this first reform package even better than most of us thought could ever be accomplished by this Congress.
My faith in the system has been buoyed up for the first time in a long time.

Yea, there was all kinds of irrational arguments and lies from the democrats and this sorry excuse for a President. The United States is in big trouble is this bill could push us over the cliff.

[Guest]

There's a lot I don't like about the bill that was passed tonight. But I'm glad that the U.S. has finally joined every other developed country in the world in offering healthcare to all of it's citizens.

In our system of government, there will never be a perfect piece of legislation, this one included. But getting insurance coverage for every American is a laudable beach head on which to build even better reforms to our healthcare system in future Congresses. I'm confident that like improvements made to Social Security, Medicare and the prescription drug bill since their original enactments, this law will be improved upon as well.

Unlike our political parties, I'm willing to compromise on a bill such as this one, being satisfied to achieve important elements while giving up on some I think are unimportant or unneccessary.

It's too bad that tonight's achievement couldn't have been accomplished without the partisan bitterness that has become so imbedded in our system.

As far as those who bitterly oppose and criticize President Obama, they should at least note that under his leadership and management of the legislative process, this landmark legislation was passed, something that twelve former Presidents were unable to achieve over the better part of a century. One doesn't have to agree with President Obama's politics, but to disdain his leadership ability to achieve his legislative objectives is simply and very obviously incorrect.

Having stated my opinion, I agree with Donna2 that the U.S. is in big trouble. I don't agree that this bill will "push us over the edge" however. The troubles faced by the country--fiscal, domestic and foreign policy--have been caused by elected representatives from both political parties over several decades. The beginnings of corrections to our problems will only result from the election of new, more thoughtful, less partisan representatives who will actually govern with the best interests of the citizens who elected them.

[Guest]

VK, what improvement to SS Medicare and prescription drugs???

[Guest]

VK, what improvement to SS Medicare and prescription drugs???

There have been multiple bills "amending" the initial laws creating Social Security, Medicare and most recently the prescription drug bill. Many had to do with modifying coverage, introducing inflation protection, changes in funding, and in the bill passed tonight, eliminating the "donut hole" in prescription drug coverage that was so costly to seniors who required extensive prescription treatment.

[Guest]

I never doubted for a minute that President Obama would get this through. I'm very happy to know that now all Americans can get much needed Health Care. This is indeed a historic day!

Now, onto Public Option!!! :thumbup: (If you think that's been forgotten, think again.) :highfive:

[Guest]

Apparently the support opinions are posted only and after and if they win one.

Mark your calendars and note that the health care coverage you currently enjoy today, as seniors, is the best, most accessible and least cost you will ever have from today forward.

Yup the farm has been bought by a bunch of city slickers!!!!

btk

[Guest]

There's a lot I don't like about the bill that was passed tonight. But I'm glad that the U.S. has finally joined every other developed country in the world in offering healthcare to all of it's citizens.

In our system of government, there will never be a perfect piece of legislation, this one included. But getting insurance coverage for every American is a laudable beach head on which to build even better reforms to our healthcare system in future Congresses. I'm confident that like improvements made to Social Security, Medicare and the prescription drug bill since their original enactments, this law will be improved upon as well.

Unlike our political parties, I'm willing to compromise on a bill such as this one, being satisfied to achieve important elements while giving up on some I think are unimportant or unneccessary.

It's too bad that tonight's achievement couldn't have been accomplished without the partisan bitterness that has become so imbedded in our system.

As far as those who bitterly oppose and criticize President Obama, they should at least note that under his leadership and management of the legislative process, this landmark legislation was passed, something that twelve former Presidents were unable to achieve over the better part of a century. One doesn't have to agree with President Obama's politics, but to disdain his leadership ability to achieve his legislative objectives is simply and very obviously incorrect.

Having stated my opinion, I agree with Donna2 that the U.S. is in big trouble. I don't agree that this bill will "push us over the edge" however. The troubles faced by the country--fiscal, domestic and foreign policy--have been caused by elected representatives from both political parties over several decades. The beginnings of corrections to our problems will only result from the election of new, more thoughtful, less partisan representatives who will actually govern with the best interests of the citizens who elected them.

If "leadership ability to achieve his legislative objectives" is defined as winning a victory by 3 votes in a body totally controlled by your party by making closed door deals and paying certain folks off, then so be it !!!

Now all those IRS agents that are going to be hired can go to work with this, the largest tax increase in US history, and your hero can continue his leadership in taking us further down a road to big, not big...HUGE, government control of more of our lives.

When will he have a press conference ?

[Guest]

Congratulations to the majority of Democrats and the Administration who stayed the course and completed the initial structure of health care reform. The millions spent to apply unprecedented pressure from special interests and the fear mongers who stirred up irrational arguments were, for once, not enough to stop a critical step forward for this nation.
Also, the Executive Order eliminating abortion funding and the 'fixes' make this first reform package even better than most of us thought could ever be accomplished by this Congress.
My faith in the system has been buoyed up for the first time in a long time.

When will we know just how much money did each Dem vote cost us the taxpayer ? I can guarantee you this hoax is NOT deficit neutral.
The joke is on you for sure.

[Guest]

This is just the beginning. Wait until the "means testing" starts. As the level of money coming in the federal coffers keeps decreasing and entitlement money going out increases, they will get even more clever on how to squeeze their subjects.
The well off retirees who have healthy IRA's and other investments will be scrutinized carefully and their social security payments will be reduced accordingly.( many "studies" already available) People who enjoy their SS payments for "fun money" will now have to dig further into their dividends and investments.
IRA's could be"borrowed" from the government and I.O.U's be issued like they do with the social security fund.
If you think I am just "stirring the pot" I have news for you. What seems ridiculous yesterday, will be the norm tomorrow. Go back to the mind-set that was 30 years ago. Did anybody really think there would be laws pending on banning certain foods or where one could smoke? The nanny state is in no hurry. They know they are only one generation away from a take-over.

[Guest]

Now all those IRS agents that are going to be hired can go to work with this, the largest tax increase in US history, and your hero can continue his leadership in taking us further down a road to big, not big...HUGE, government control of more of our lives.

When will he have a press conference ?

Guess this means "Job Creation"??? haha! :wave:

This is a misrepresentation... as usual! :024:

[Guest]

This is just the beginning. Wait until the "means testing" starts. As the level of money coming in the federal coffers keeps decreasing and entitlement money going out increases, they will get even more clever on how to squeeze their subjects.
The well off retirees who have healthy IRA's and other investments will be scrutinized carefully and their social security payments will be reduced accordingly.( many "studies" already available) People who enjoy their SS payments for "fun money" will now have to dig further into their dividends and investments.
IRA's could be"borrowed" from the government and I.O.U's be issued like they do with the social security fund.
If you think I am just "stirring the pot" I have news for you. What seems ridiculous yesterday, will be the norm tomorrow. Go back to the mind-set that was 30 years ago. Did anybody really think there would be laws pending on banning certain foods or where one could smoke? The nanny state is in no hurry. They know they are only one generation away from a take-over.

Those dividends and investments you speak of will be now TAXED at 3.8% as a result of this bill !!!

The CBO analysis of this was nothing but IF's AND's and BUT's....and they admit to that !

[Guest]

Guess this means "Job Creation"??? haha! :wave:

This is a misrepresentation... as usual! :024:

"Genuine humor is always kindly and gracious. It points out the weakness of humanity, but shows no contempt and leaves no sting."

Some folk's sense of humor doesn't make sense.barf

[Guest]

Guess this means "Job Creation"??? haha! :wave:

This is a misrepresentation... as usual! :024:

You are uninformed as usual...

"Under the Obama plan the IRS would be given new powers of enforcement. The IRS will be given the charge to see every American has “acceptable” health insurance. If your plan is not acceptable the IRS may be able to withhold your income tax return and or levy fines due to your non compliance. Everyone under the Obama plan will be required to purchase insurance. If you can’t pay for the insurance the subsidy to purchase will come through the IRS in the form of a tax credit."


The last I heard was 16000 new IRS employees to monitor our health care...


"Texas Congressman Ron Paul warns that last night’s passage of the health care reform bill will prompt the government to hire thousands of new IRS agents who will be used to steal money from taxpaying Americans to fund the new program"

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-irs-will-steal-more-money-to-fund-health-care.html

"Any time a government tries to give you a service or something of substance, they have to steal it from somebody else, so the whole process is immoral because it’s based on government theft, that’s why they’re hiring 16,000 more new IRS agents, because they have to steal more money,” stated the Congressman, referring to an analysis by the Joint Economic Committee and the House Ways & Means Committee that found “Up to 16,500 new IRS personnel will be needed to collect, examine and audit new tax information mandated on families and small businesses,” under the health care bill."

[Guest]

Congrats..It appears the US has proved it is mentally challenged. A majority of its Congress just joined and became partners with a person from California who has all but ruined that state with laws like this, a person from Las Vegas who relies on human weakness (gambling, booze and hookers) to maintain his economy and a politician from corrupt Chicgo politics to lead the herd.
We are a bankrupt nation, have no friends in other countries and are beholding to China to be our bank.
We are a lost country. Freedom, our Constitution and dignity died last night and there are still a number that are blinded by our plight.
Today I am embarrassed to say I am an American. A year ago I was in a pub in Ireland and some English couples were at the next table. They said America deserved what it was getting as they [Americans] have had respect for too long. Who would have thought it would be such a short time before their prediction came true. We have lost all respect and are quickly becoming a 3rd world country if we are not there already.:(

[Guest]

The majority of Americans don’t want it.

Not one vote from the GOP.

34 no votes from their own party.

Couldn’t pass it without threats, bribes, back room deals and pay off’s.

34 States so far are ready to file law suits with more to follow.


Common sense would dictate this bill is a bad idea at a bad time. So why did they ram it through anyway? Because it’s NOT about health care.

[Guest]

Read Below..Does this sound familiar? If not, it will..This is what is going on in the UK under socialized medicine. This is just a couple of paragraphs from the notice as to the impact of socialized medicine..
Everyone still happy with what went on last night???:rant-rave:

"Ministers say the NHS needs to save £20billion over the next five years. Although both Labour and the Tories have pledged not to cut NHS funding, rising demand and an ageing population means the money will not go as far as in the past, necessitating cuts.

Dozens of hospitals are already considering closures of A&E departments and maternity wards, while others are asking staff to consider voluntary redundancy and early retirement.

The respected King's Fund think tank says it may be necessary to freeze NHS pay until 2014.

One NHS trust under pressure is North East Essex primary care trust, which last month asked its GPs not to refer patients for MRI scans - used to diagnose possible tumours and kidney disease - and other tests until April 1."

[Guest]

No one cares because for now what the liberals are preaching sounds good and as long as it sounds good the actual future outcomes or consequences don't matter to them.

[Guest]

raised like cost, access, reduced care....only shots at what is said that does not line up with party beliefs.
Nothing new= as usual no added value!!! It is a shame.

btk

[Guest]

Interesting:

http://www.ipa.org.au/publications/1790/from-the-nanny-state-to-the-bully-state

[Guest]

There's a lot I don't like about the bill that was passed tonight. But I'm glad that the U.S. has finally joined every other developed country in the world in offering healthcare to all of it's citizens.

In our system of government, there will never be a perfect piece of legislation, this one included. But getting insurance coverage for every American is a laudable beach head on which to build even better reforms to our healthcare system in future Congresses. I'm confident that like improvements made to Social Security, Medicare and the prescription drug bill since their original enactments, this law will be improved upon as well.

Unlike our political parties, I'm willing to compromise on a bill such as this one, being satisfied to achieve important elements while giving up on some I think are unimportant or unneccessary.

It's too bad that tonight's achievement couldn't have been accomplished without the partisan bitterness that has become so imbedded in our system.

As far as those who bitterly oppose and criticize President Obama, they should at least note that under his leadership and management of the legislative process, this landmark legislation was passed, something that twelve former Presidents were unable to achieve over the better part of a century. One doesn't have to agree with President Obama's politics, but to disdain his leadership ability to achieve his legislative objectives is simply and very obviously incorrect.

Having stated my opinion, I agree with Donna2 that the U.S. is in big trouble. I don't agree that this bill will "push us over the edge" however. The troubles faced by the country--fiscal, domestic and foreign policy--have been caused by elected representatives from both political parties over several decades. The beginnings of corrections to our problems will only result from the election of new, more thoughtful, less partisan representatives who will actually govern with the best interests of the citizens who elected them.
I, for one, don't believe as you do that "joining" the "developed world" and it's push toward socialism/communism with an overreaching and ill-advised takeover of the health care industry is a good thing.

I, for one, am proud of the Republicans who stood up to the Democrats and refused to offer them cover with even one vote for this abomination of a bill that erodes and frankly destroys our history of individualism and self-determination. Screw bipartisanism; bipartisan to Democrats is that you agree with them.

Are you aware of the Education takeover in this bill? You now will only be able to get student loans through the government. How soon before the government mandates where you go to college and who "deserves" the loan more. Do you think your grandchildren will be among the favored group VK?

The key to fixing "health care" would have been to get government out of it. We could all afford "health care" if government mandates weren't bogging down the system. Companies care about profit; profit comes from consumers; give the consumer what he wants and you profit .... simple huh?

Will you also be happy with the coming amnesty that will put millions of more people in your wallet and in the Democrats pocket? It's going to happen ..... learn to speak Spanish; it will be the language of the majority soon.

One final thought. If this bill is so good, as some in this thread have indicated they believe; why delay it's major enactments until 2014 when almost all the principals are out of office ........ oh sorry ........ I answered my own question

REPEAL, REPEAL , REPEAL; AND THROUGH EVERY DEMOCRAT OUT ON HIS OR HER EAR!!!!!!

[Guest]

...Wait until the "means testing" starts....The well off retirees who have healthy IRA's and other investments will be scrutinized carefully and their social security payments will be reduced accordingly....If you think I am just "stirring the pot" I have news for you....

Nope, you're not just stirring the pot Donna. It's simple arithmetic now. And that would be the case whether or not the health reform bill was passed.

There is no possible way that the federal budget can be reduced enough to produce a balanced budget. The spending increases of the last ten years assures that. Now, the interest on the national debt and the costs of Social Security and Medicare for a rapidly aging population almost assures that those benefits will have to be cut. The means testing that you mentioned seems to make the most sense to most people--those people who are better off financially will have to accept less in the form of SSA payments, higher Medicare premiums, lower deductions, higher co-pays and the like.

But even that won't be anywhere near enough to balance the budget and begin to pay off the humongous national debt we have built up in only a decade. You can expect the defense budget to have to take a heavy whack--maybe as the result of not being the defender of the rest of the world. And income taxes will have to be increased for sure.

All those things will have to happen regardless of what political party is in power. It's simple arithmetic. The only real question is: when will Congress get started on taking the inevitable actions.

[Guest]

Nope, you're not just stirring the pot Donna. It's simple arithmetic now. And that would be the case whether or not the health reform bill was passed.

There is no possible way that the federal budget can be reduced enough to produce a balanced budget. The spending increases of the last ten years assures that. Now, the interest on the national debt and the costs of Social Security and Medicare for a rapidly aging population almost assures that those benefits will have to be cut. The means testing that you mentioned seems to make the most sense to most people--those people who are better off financially will have to accept less in the form of SSA payments, higher Medicare premiums, lower deductions, higher co-pays and the like.

But even that won't be anywhere near enough to balance the budget and begin to pay off the humongous national debt we have built up in only a decade. You can expect the defense budget to have to take a heavy whack--maybe as the result of not being the defender of the rest of the world. And income taxes will have to be increased for sure.

All those things will have to happen regardless of what political party is in power. It's simple arithmetic. The only real question is: when will Congress get started on taking the inevitable actions.


"All those things will have to happen regardless of what political party is in power. It's simple arithmetic. The only real question is: when will Congress get started on taking the inevitable actions."


Congress will not even think about taking the inevitable actions until the WH is done spending and he is not close. There will be more and more "crisis" that only spending will take care of !

[Guest]

It’s like military boot camp. They tear you down and then rebuild you the military way. Those of you who served know what I’m talking about. Obama and his radical partners are systematically destroying the private sector in order to build it back with more government control and ownership. I’ll bet you amnesty is his next big project. He wants as many as possible depending on government… and voting for democrats. Millions of illegal’s are a perfect target and he's hoping they will get him reelected.

It’s pretty damn obvious that health care reform is only one vehicle to achieve their goal. Amnesty and cap-n-trade are the next. If you don’t think this bill if actually enacted won’t drive private insurance out of business, you’re blind. Once private insurance goes under, then where you going to go for your health care? That’s right, the government, and this bill will drive private insurers out of business. That’s exactly what it’s designed to do.

Once government and the IRS controls your health care they control YOU.

and we're almost 17,000 new IRS agents closer.

[Guest]

This is just the beginning. Wait until the "means testing" starts. As the level of money coming in the federal coffers keeps decreasing and entitlement money going out increases, they will get even more clever on how to squeeze their subjects.
The well off retirees who have healthy IRA's and other investments will be scrutinized carefully and their social security payments will be reduced accordingly.( many "studies" already available) People who enjoy their SS payments for "fun money" will now have to dig further into their dividends and investments.
IRA's could be"borrowed" from the government and I.O.U's be issued like they do with the social security fund.
If you think I am just "stirring the pot" I have news for you. What seems ridiculous yesterday, will be the norm tomorrow. Go back to the mind-set that was 30 years ago. Did anybody really think there would be laws pending on banning certain foods or where one could smoke? The nanny state is in no hurry. They know they are only one generation away from a take-over.

Donna, I agree 100 %.. We are in a lot of trouble... And the worst is coming...

[Guest]

dklassen, H.R. 2454: American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 has already been passed in the House. Other titles, same bill:
-- Global Change Research and Data Management Act of 2009
-- GREEN Act of 2009
-- Green Resources for Energy Efficient Neighborhoods Act of 2009
-- National Climate Service Act of 2009
-- Safe Climate Act
By any name, it is insanity.
You and I both know, and anyone else who can read and has third grade reading comprehension skills, immigration amnesty is practically a done deal with Obama. The Progressive's next move is with financial reform and Chris Dodd is moving it along. Education reform is moving along.

[Guest]

Can you tell me the grammatical rule that says An Historic vs. A Historic?

Thank you

Yoda

[Guest]

Yoda, you know the rule that says to use "A" before all words that begin with consonants and that "An" goes before words that begin with vowels? For example, a dog, an apple, a cat, an elephant.

One exception to the rule is to use "An" before an unsounded "H." Like an honorable man, an honest mistake, or, an historic event.

The rule, which is very confusing, is based on the sound of the first letter in a word when reading.

[Guest]

Can you tell me the grammatical rule that says An Historic vs. A Historic?

Thank you

Yoda

That's been driving me crazy, too! So, is it "an istoric" event? Enquiring minds want (and need) to know!

(Sorry for hijacking, but it really has been driving me crazy. Please...continue your conversation.)

[Guest]

There are some basic rules that all must agree to: (a) the power of the central government has been significantly increased, (b) the central government is now able to dictate health care, (c) the central government has the power to fine, jail and otherwise punish those that do not conform to their demands on personal priveleges rather than rights (d) the central government can dictate who receives certain medical treatments, (e) the central government can dictate who receives loans for education, (f) the central government can demand otherwise personal financial information, and so on and so on.
Is everyone getting the clue..This is a socialized government, your personal rights and freedom have been totally invaded and the central government has a huge call on you from cradle to grave. You are no longer in a free society.
You can scream all the arguments you want but fact is fact your freedom has been significantly taken away from you.
The government was not established to be another charity church. If you believe otherwise you should go back to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution
for reference. If you are too lazy to do that then you deserve what you get.
The real sad part of all of this is that we are passing on to the next generation our lazy lack of protection of freedom. It is too bad as we should have to live with what we have done and pay the price as opposed to forcing our children to pay the price of our lazyness.
Those who voted in or were in favor of the health bill are no better than an ACORN workers or a member of the Chicago corrupt political machine. They sold their soul for greed. God help up.:cry:

[Guest]

....your freedom has been significantly taken away from you...

I agree that the central government has become more powerful over the years--decades actually. The founding fathers designed a system with a "weak" central government with narrowly focused functions--national defense, maintaining a rule of law and foreign relations.The states were designed to have "strong" governments, providing the functions and services desired by their citizens, to whom they were closer to and presumably able to better understand.

Over time, almost 100 years now, the states willingly ceded their authority to the central government to provide services that the states either didn't want or couldn't afford to provide. In 1913 the 16th amendment to the Constitution made federal income taxes permanent. Between the taxes which they could levy and the fact that the central government could issue debt, and the states were very limited in that regard, the central government got more and more powerful. But our "states freedoms" weren't "taken away". The citizens of the U.S. during that century permitted them to be taken and replaced with an ever stronger central government.

Call it "creeping socialism" if you wish--that's as good a descriptive term as any other. But our government is what it is now, after taking almost a century to get here. To think for a moment that we could ever go back to the system originally designed by the framers of the Constitution is pure folly.

We're facing the challenge of making the best of the government that we have now, make it work more in line with our desires. But to think that we could ever go back to how the country was governed in the beginning is little more than wishful thinking. And to convince ourselves that someone, some political party or some political leader, came and took our freedoms away is totally inaccurate. Our predecessors over the last 100 years willingly permitted our government to be changed--probably permanently.

[Guest]

Why couldn't we go back? If the country goes bankrupt we would have to back-track a little, huh? If there was a nuclear war, we would have to rebuild. Like an alcoholic who has to hit rock-bottom to start the journey upwards to rebuild his life, there might be some point where this calamity would have to end. After all, the Great Depression saw many mighty people tumble.

[Guest]

It is good to visit Jefferson sometimes and get an insight as to how great he was and the evil he saw could happen without due dilligece by the people.:bowdown:


Jefferson himself favored a small, weak central government. To strong a central government, he believed, would trample the very rights it was meant to protect
**How true this turns out to be?


"[We] should look forward to a time, and that not a distant one, when corruption in this as in the country from which we derive our origin will have seized the heads of government and be spread by them through the body of the people; when they will purchase the voices of the people and make them pay the price. Human nature is the same on every side of the Atlantic and will be alike influenced by the same causes." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIII, 1782. ME 2:164

Even in this, the birth of our government, some members [of the Legislature] were found sordid enough to bend their duty to their interests and to look after personal rather than public good." --Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1818. ME 1:271

'When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.'" --Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.

[Guest]

Why couldn't we go back?...

I didn't write my opinion that we couldn't go back without some forethought. To try to answer your question of why we couldn't go back, let me just ask you this question...

Which of the currently provided services provided by the federal government would you agree to give up?
Food & Drug Administration
Department of Homeland Security
The national parks
The federal interstate highway system
The SEC
The Air Traffic Control system
Medicare
Social Security
Veteran's Administration
Center for Disease Control
NHTSA
U.S. Postal Service
The Environmental Protection Agency
DEA
Immigration & Naturalization Service
All the federal hospitals


I could go on, but I think you might get the drift. These are just a few of the services currently provided by the central government which either couldn't be adequately provided by or afforded by the states.

Like I said...there's no going back. We're way too far down the road towards a strong central government and weakened state and local governments.

[Guest]

VK, have you seen this proposal by Utah state leaders?

"We propose a modest experiment. As Utah state leaders, we are greatly concerned about the unprecedented expansion of the federal government over many years, and the enormous debt levels being left to our children and grandchildren.

We believe the federal government is attempting to do far more than it has the capacity to execute well. Congress has inserted itself into every aspect of our lives with laws and regulations that don't fit the widely divergent nature of the states and localities. The job descriptions assumed by President Obama and Congress have grown far larger than their ability to deliver.

We'd like to relieve some of their burden...."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/18/AR2010021803978.html

PS REH7380, thanks for the visit with Jefferson. The breath of fresh air was appreciated.

[Guest]

VK, have you seen this proposal by Utah state leaders?...

No, I hadn't seen that. But it sounds like a pretty good idea to me. There are certainly a lot of government programs that could be either done by the states or eliminated completely with little chance of bad results.

Unfortunately, if things like have been proposed by Utah were accepted by the federal government and done by the states, the results would be a miniscule reduction in federal spending--way less than 1% for the programs Utah mentions. Check the federal budget yourself to see what I mean.

The value of the Utah proposal is far more "sending a message" regarding state's rights than it is anything that would materially change the amount of debt we are leaving to coming generations. That result doesn't devalue such a message--I think it should be sent anyway. But to think that far more fundamental and Draconian changes to both spending as well as taxation won't be necessary is simply incorrect.

Again, look at the federal budget and national debt yourself; see if you can figure out a way to minimize the weight of the debt we will leave future generations. It will soon become clear to anyone who does this that what will be necessary will be far more lifestyle changing than anything like what is suggested by Utah.

[Guest]

Health Bill new Boards and Commissions..!! There are so many that I have to break them into 2 notes in order to fit the constraints of the web site. Please see second note for rest of list.:ohdear:

1. Grant program for consumer assistance offices (Section 1002, p. 37)
2. Grant program for states to monitor premium increases (Section 1003, p.
42)
3. Committee to review administrative simplification standards (Section
1104, p. 71)
4. Demonstration program for state wellness programs (Section 1201, p. 93)
5. Grant program to establish state Exchanges (Section 1311(a), p. 130)
6. State American Health Benefit Exchanges (Section 1311(b), p. 131)
7. Exchange grants to establish consumer navigator programs (Section
1311(i), p. 150)
8. Grant program for state cooperatives (Section 1322, p. 169)
9. Advisory board for state cooperatives (Section 1322(b)(3), p. 173)
10. Private purchasing council for state cooperatives (Section 1322(d), p.
177)
11. State basic health plan programs (Section 1331, p. 201)
12. State-based reinsurance program (Section 1341, p. 226)
13. Program of risk corridors for individual and small group markets
(Section 1342, p. 233)
14. Program to determine eligibility for Exchange participation (Section
1411, p. 267)
15. Program for advance determination of tax credit eligibility (Section
1412, p. 288)
16. Grant program to implement health IT enrollment standards (Section 1561,
p. 370)
17. Federal Coordinated Health Care Office for dual eligible beneficiaries
(Section 2602, p. 512)
18. Medicaid quality measurement program (Section 2701, p. 518)
19. Medicaid health home program for people with chronic conditions, and
grants for planning same (Section 2703, p. 524)
20. Medicaid demonstration project to evaluate bundled payments (Section
2704, p. 532)
21. Medicaid demonstration project for global payment system (Section 2705,
p. 536)
22. Medicaid demonstration project for accountable care organizations
(Section 2706, p. 538)
23. Medicaid demonstration project for emergency psychiatric care (Section
2707, p. 540)
24. Grant program for delivery of services to individuals with postpartum
depression (Section 2952(b), p. 591)
25. State allotments for grants to promote personal responsibility education
programs (Section 2953, p. 596)
26. Medicare value-based purchasing program (Section 3001(a), p. 613)
27. Medicare value-based purchasing demonstration program for critical
access hospitals (Section 3001(b), p. 637)
28. Medicare value-based purchasing program for skilled nursing facilities
(Section 3006(a), p. 666)
29. Medicare value-based purchasing program for home health agencies
(Section 3006(b), p. 668)
30. Interagency Working Group on Health Care Quality (Section 3012, p. 688)
31. Grant program to develop health care quality measures (Section 3013, p.
693)
32. Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (Section 3021, p. 712)
33. Medicare shared savings program (Section 3022, p. 728)
34. Medicare pilot program on payment bundling (Section 3023, p. 739)
35. Independence at home medical practice demonstration program (Section
3024, p. 752)
36. Program for use of patient safety organizations to reduce hospital
readmission rates (Section 3025(b), p. 775)
37. Community-based care transitions program (Section 3026, p. 776)
38. Demonstration project for payment of complex diagnostic laboratory tests
(Section 3113, p. 800)
39. Medicare hospice concurrent care demonstration project (Section 3140, p.
850)
40. Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 982)
41. Consumer Advisory Council for Independent Payment Advisory Board
(Section 3403, p. 1027)
42. Grant program for technical assistance to providers implementing health
quality practices (Section 3501, p. 1043)
43. Grant program to establish interdisciplinary health teams (Section 3502,
p. 1048)
44. Grant program to implement medication therapy management (Section 3503,
p. 1055)
45. Grant program to support emergency care pilot programs (Section 3504, p.
1061)
46. Grant program to promote universal access to trauma services (Section
3505(b), p. 1081)
47. Grant program to develop and promote shared decision-making aids
(Section 3506, p. 1088)
48. Grant program to support implementation of shared decision-making
(Section 3506, p. 1091)
49. Grant program to integrate quality improvement in clinical education
(Section 3508, p. 1095)
50. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women’s Health
(Section 3509(a), p. 1098)
51. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women’s Health (Section 3509(b),
p. 1102)
52. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women’s Health
(Section 3509(e), p. 1105)
53. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women’s Health
(Section 3509(f), p. 1106)
54. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women’s Health (Section 3509(g),
p. 1109)
55. National Prevention, Health Promotion, and Public Health Council
(Section 4001, p. 1114)
56. Advisory Group on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and
Public Health (Section 4001(f), p. 1117)
57. Prevention and Public Health Fund (Section 4002, p. 1121)
58. Community Preventive Services Task Force (Section 4003(b), p. 1126)
59. Grant program to support school-based health centers (Section 4101, p.
1135)
60. Grant program to promote research-based dental caries disease management
(Section 4102, p. 1147)
61. Grant program for States to prevent chronic disease in Medicaid
beneficiaries (Section 4108, p. 1174)
62. Community transformation grants (Section 4201, p. 1182)
63. Grant program to provide public health interventions (Section 4202, p.
1188)
64. Demonstration program of grants to improve child immunization rates
(Section 4204(b), p. 1200)
65. Pilot program for risk-factor assessments provided through community
health centers (Section 4206, p. 1215)
66. Grant program to increase epidemiology and laboratory capacity (Section
4304, p. 1233)
67. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 4305, p. 1238)
68. National Health Care Workforce Commission (Section 5101, p. 1256)
69. Grant program to plan health care workforce development activities
(Section 5102(c), p. 1275)
70. Grant program to implement health care workforce development activities
(Section 5102(d), p. 1279)
71. Pediatric specialty loan repayment program (Section 5203, p. 1295)
72. Public Health Workforce Loan Repayment Program (Section 5204, p. 1300)
73. Allied Health Loan Forgiveness Program (Section 5205, p. 1305)
74. Grant program to provide mid-career training for health professionals
(Section 5206, p. 1307)
75. Grant program to fund nurse-managed health clinics (Section 5208, p.
1310)
76. Grant program to support primary care training programs (Section 5301,
p. 1315)
77. Grant program to fund training for direct care workers (Section 5302, p.
1322)
78. Grant program to develop dental training programs (Section 5303, p.
1325)
79. Demonstration program to increase access to dental health care in
underserved communities (Section 5304, p. 1331)
80. Grant program to promote geriatric education centers (Section 5305, p.
1334)
81. Grant program to promote health professionals entering geriatrics
(Section 5305, p. 1339)
82. Grant program to promote training in mental and behavioral health
(Section 5306, p. 1344)
83. Grant program to promote nurse retention programs (Section 5309, p.
1354)
84. Student loan forgiveness for nursing school faculty (Section 5311(b), p.
1360)
85. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors and outcomes (Section
5313, p. 1364)
86. Public Health Sciences Track for medical students (Section 5315, p.
1372)
87. Primary Care Extension Program to educate providers (Section 5405, p.
1404)
88. Grant program for demonstration projects to address health workforce
shortage needs (Section 5507, p. 1442)
89. Grant program for demonstration projects to develop training programs
for home health aides (Section 5507, p. 1447)
90. Grant program to establish new primary care residency programs (Section
5508(a), p. 1458)
91. Program of payments to teaching health centers that sponsor medical
residency training (Section 5508(c), p. 1462)
92. Graduate nurse education demonstration program (Section 5509, p. 1472)
93. Grant program to establish demonstration projects for community-based
mental health settings (Section 5604, p. 1486)
94. Commission on Key National Indicators (Section 5605, p. 1489)
95. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for skilled
nursing facilities (Section 6102, p. 1554)
96. Special focus facility program for skilled nursing facilities (Section
6103(a)(3), p. 1561)
97. Special focus facility program for nursing facilities (Section
6103(b)(3), p. 1568)
98. National independent monitor pilot program for skilled nursing
facilities and nursing facilities (Section 6112, p. 1589)
99. Demonstration projects for nursing facilities involved in the culture
change movement (Section 6114, p. 1597)
100. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1619)

[Guest]

Here are the rest of the Boards and Commissions that will be set up as a result of the Healt Care Bill. Welcome to the Politburo.:(

101. Standing methodology committee for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research
Institute (Section 6301, p. 1629)
102. Board of Governors for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute
(Section 6301, p. 1638)
103. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund (Section 6301(e), p.
1656)
104. Elder Justice Coordinating Council (Section 6703, p. 1773)
105. Advisory Board on Elder Abuse, Neglect, and Exploitation (Section 6703,
p. 1776)
106. Grant program to create elder abuse forensic centers (Section 6703, p.
1783)
107. Grant program to promote continuing education for long-term care
staffers (Section 6703, p. 1787)
108. Grant program to improve management practices and training (Section
6703, p. 1788)
109. Grant program to subsidize costs of electronic health records (Section
6703, p. 1791)
110. Grant program to promote adult protective services (Section 6703, p.
1796)
111. Grant program to conduct elder abuse detection and prevention (Section
6703, p. 1798)
112. Grant program to support long-term care ombudsmen (Section 6703, p.
1800)
113. National Training Institute for long-term care surveyors (Section 6703,
p. 1806)
114. Grant program to fund State surveys of long-term care residences
(Section 6703, p. 1809)
115. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 8002, p. 1926)
116. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 8002, p. 1927)
117. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 8002, p. 1931)
118. Personal Care Attendants Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 8002(c), p.
1938)
119. Multi-state health plans offered by Office of Personnel Management
(Section 10104(p), p. 2086)
120. Advisory board for multi-state health plans (Section 10104(p), p. 2094)
121. Pregnancy Assistance Fund (Section 10212, p. 2164)
122. Value-based purchasing program for ambulatory surgical centers (Section
10301, p. 2176)
123. Demonstration project for payment adjustments to home health services
(Section 10315, p. 2200)
124. Pilot program for care of individuals in environmental emergency
declaration areas (Section 10323, p. 2223)
125. Grant program to screen at-risk individuals for environmental health
conditions (Section 10323(b), p. 2231)
126. Pilot programs to implement value-based purchasing (Section 10326, p.
2242)
127. Grant program to support community-based collaborative care networks
(Section 10333, p. 2265)
128. Centers for Disease Control Office of Minority Health (Section 10334,
p. 2272)
129. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Minority Health
(Section 10334, p. 2272)
130. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Office of
Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
131. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Minority Health
(Section 10334, p. 2272)
132. Food and Drug Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334,
p. 2272)
133. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Office of Minority Health
(Section 10334, p. 2272)
134. Grant program to promote small business wellness programs (Section
10408, p. 2285)
135. Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2289)
136. Cures Acceleration Network Review Board (Section 10409, p. 2291)
137. Grant program for Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2297)
138. Grant program to promote centers of excellence for depression (Section
10410, p. 2304)
139. Advisory committee for young women’s breast health awareness education
campaign (Section 10413, p. 2322)
140. Grant program to provide assistance to provide information to young
women with breast cancer (Section 10413, p. 2326)
141. Interagency Access to Health Care in Alaska Task Force (Section 10501,
p. 2329)
142. Grant program to train nurse practitioners as primary care providers
(Section 10501(e), p. 2332)
143. Grant program for community-based diabetes prevention (Section
10501(g), p. 2337)
144. Grant program for providers who treat a high percentage of medically
underserved populations (Section 10501(k), p. 2343)
145. Grant program to recruit students to practice in underserved
communities (Section 10501(l), p. 2344)
146. Community Health Center Fund (Section 10503, p. 2355)
147. Demonstration project to provide access to health care for the
uninsured at reduced fees (Section 10504, p. 2357)
148. Demonstration program to explore alternatives to tort litigation
(Section 10607, p. 2369)
149. Indian Health demonstration program for chronic shortages of health
professionals (S. 1790, Section 112, p. 24)*
150. Office of Indian Men’s Health (S. 1790, Section 136, p. 71)*
151. Indian Country modular component facilities demonstration program (S.
1790, Section 146, p. 108)*
152. Indian mobile health stations demonstration program (S. 1790, Section
147, p. 111)*
153. Office of Direct Service Tribes (S. 1790, Section 172, p. 151)*
154. Indian Health Service mental health technician training program (S.
1790, Section 181, p. 173)*
155. Indian Health Service program for treatment of child sexual abuse
victims (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 192)*
156. Indian Health Service program for treatment of domestic violence and
sexual abuse (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 194)*
157. Indian youth telemental health demonstration project (S. 1790, Section
181, p. 204)*
158. Indian youth life skills demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181,
p. 220)*
159. Indian Health Service Director of HIV/AIDS Prevention and Treatment (S.
1790, Section 199B, p. 258)*

*Section 10221, page 2173 of H.R. 3590 deems that S. 1790 shall be deemed as
passed with certain amendments.

[Guest]

I am convinced that this new health care bill will be efficient and give Americans great service with no need for any death panels or any cut- backs on accessibility to the greatest doctors on earth.
I feel so good about myself that I could just cry. Isn't the USA a great place to get free stuff? And the best part is that I'll be dead and will not have to worry about how it is going to be paid.
Freedom- it is way over- rated.

[Guest]

Thomas Jefferson - "We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order."

The key here is Massachusetts. Here's a fun little history lesson. What happened in Massachusetts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion

[Guest]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/03/025922.php

[Guest]

CBS took a poll and 62% said they were in favor of the Republicans continuing efforts on a repeal. 33% said no. Pretty large margin.