Corner of Buena Vista and Old Mill Run, anybody know/speculate

[billethkid]

what all the earth moving and digging is for? Sure hope they do not remove that large oak down by Buena Vista. The back hoes were digging around the base of the tree this morning.

btk

[duffysmom]

What a sad sight. The hill on the property with two magnificent oak trees was leveled today. They took down the two trees.::cryin2: We would take our cart up there and walk our dog and take in the beautiful view of Lake Sumpter. Gone........ I have no idea what is being built and hope it's not another parking lot for the new medical center.

[BogeyBoy]

All that talk about the big house in Pennecamp irritated me. And it's way out there, away from the action. Not to be outdone I decided to build a new place. That big empty lot was ripe for the taking.

My new place will be 12,000 sq feet with a 7 car garage. They will construct it with a nice view over the water. Speaking of water, there will be a moat.

I told them to leave the tree alone.

And don't get any ideas of wandering through the place before it is done, there will be gators in the moat. (Don't worry, you'll be invited to the house warming - minimum house warming gift - $25,000 - or one hand of poker for Tiger.)

[ijusluvit]

All that talk about the big house in Pennecamp irritated me. And it's way out there, away from the action. Not to be outdone I decided to build a new place. That big empty lot was ripe for the taking.

My new place will be 12,000 sq feet with a 7 car garage. They will construct it with a nice view over the water. Speaking of water, there will be a moat.

I told them to leave the tree alone.

And don't get any ideas of wandering through the place before it is done, there will be gators in the moat. (Don't worry, you'll be invited to the house warming - minimum house warming gift - $25,000 - or one hand of poker for Tiger.)

Oh, I'm so relieved! Thought it was a Goodyear store with 7 bays.

[jebartle]

April Fooooool!

[Pturner]

All that talk about the big house in Pennecamp irritated me. And it's way out there, away from the action. Not to be outdone I decided to build a new place. That big empty lot was ripe for the taking.

My new place will be 12,000 sq feet with a 7 car garage. They will construct it with a nice view over the water. Speaking of water, there will be a moat.

I told them to leave the tree alone.

And don't get any ideas of wandering through the place before it is done, there will be gators in the moat. (Don't worry, you'll be invited to the house warming - minimum house warming gift - $25,000 - or one hand of poker for Tiger.)

:clap2::a20:

[villages07]

Where's our inside guy, Mr GMoney, when you need him? I bet he knows the real answer to the question on what is going in to the heretofore empty field.

I've heard that it's residential ...but only a rumor. The Sumter County appraiser website calls it "UNPLATTED SUB EDGEWATER IN THE VILLAGES OF SUMTER DISTRICT 6...which sounds residential. Wonder if it'll be villas, designers or premiers???

[Pturner]

No, no, no. Don't pave paradise to put up a parking lot. :eek:

[GatbTester]

I could be wrong, but I believe it is going to be a medical center with a surgery clinic operating there.

[villages07]

GatB...you're thinking about the empty field adjacent to the lifestyle villas and across from Barnes and Noble. Site work on this has been underway and it will be a day surgery center.

What we're referring to is the empty field across the street from the lifestyle villas, next to Waterfront Hotel. There has been no official announcement on what's going in there.

[marianne237]

I had always hoped it would become a park....with benches and tables to sit and play chess or checkers and just have a quiet place to sit and watch the lake. Boo hoo.

[GMONEY]

I know beside Creekside Landing will be Creekside Medical Plaza, and there is suppose to be a Cancer Center going in. Not sure If that is what will be beside the WaterFront Inn or not. I have some poeple checking it out.

the area besides The Waterfront Inn is going to be Edgewater Cotteges. Suppost to be like Lakeshore Cottege area on the other side of Lake Sumter Landing. Pass on more infor as I get it. Across from that is the Creekside Medical. think the Cancer Center is suppose to be there from what I am hearing.

[ajbrown]

What a sad sight. The hill on the property with two magnificent oak trees was leveled today. They took down the two trees.::cryin2: We would take our cart up there and walk our dog and take in the beautiful view of Lake Sumpter. Gone........ I have no idea what is being built and hope it's not another parking lot for the new medical center.

I guess I always knew it would not stay an open space, but we really liked going there around sunset. Lake Sumter on one side and a beautiful sunset on the other.....

It sure will change the view for those homes on Palmer also....

[villages07]

Right on the GMoney, as usual....thanks G. Do you know if the new Edgewater residential cottages will be immediately for sale or will they be an extension of the Lifestyle Plan Cottages?

I'm sure they will be tastefully done and architecturally pleasing. Glad it's not going to be a parking lot or more commercial space. Although, we sure could use a South end Katie Belles and another Bowling alley.

[GatbTester]

OOOPS, you are correct........senior moments..........what would we do without them? Then on the other hand I heard that it might be the place where the monolith was going to be built....you know from the movie? But then, it;s only hearsay. LOL

[billethkid]

that the so called planners could not find a way to save the stately oak on the hill. It would have provided a beautiful setting of some kind...any kind whether the plan is commercial or residential.

This is a case where clearly the dollars to be gained far out weighed the removal of stately oaks, hundreds of years in the making.

When we lived in SC they were a protected species. I have seen stores like Publix have to modify their footprint to fit in areas where the oaks were.....the parking lot made smaller to assure no taking down of the stately oaks. No one seemed to suffer financially.

There are a lot of things TV does that can be rationalized in one behalf or another....the removal of the oak on the hill is nothing less than STUPID, INCONSIDERATE GREED. A black mark in my once high value of TV for their overall approach.

While after the fact and of no consequence except self satisfaction, I will register my complaint and opinion to Gary and Mark Morse.

I am not a tree hugger, but the removal of stately oaks should be a criminal offense......

btk

[swrinfla]

Afraid that I must agree with btk. :thumbup:

And, here I spend lots of time telling outsiders how ecologically-minded the Developer is!

An absolute sin to take down those trees for yet more rental/lifestyle cottages!

Bah, humbug.
:beer3:

[Bogie Shooter]

I guess there is the possibility that the tree(s) were diseased or had trunks that were decayed in the core.
I agree it is unfortunate that they were cut down....but we do no know the whole story.

[duffysmom]

Bogie, I sat under the oak trees each evening enjoying the view and watching the ducks as well as the golfers on Palmer. The trees appeared to be healthy and thriving. Their trunks were massive and the canopy huge. So sad....

[pooh]

It's always sad to see lovely trees go, but then again, I wonder how many lovely trees had to go for our homes to be built?

It would be bothersome to have some start sounding like they can only find "fault" with the community and/or the development of it. It's a lovely place, it's not all going to be greenbelt, the land is probably zoned for homes or commercial so......

Heck, I was upset to see the land where SweetBay sits taken over by the grocery store....now I'm thrilled that it's there, and so close to my house.

[billethkid]

that size and majesty.

NONE!!!!!!!!!!

BTK

[duffysmom]

To express a concern and a feeling about something, i.e., the oak trees, is not "finding fault with the developer". chilout It always amazes me when people feel that they have to defend the developer. He's a big boy and can take care of himself. Yes, many trees were stripped from the countryside to build this community but that doesn't negate the sadness to see two more come down. In the time that I have lived here I have expressed my admiration for the developer's business acumen but I also belong to the POA.

[golf2140]

After the Hooters Restaurant is built there everyone will be happy!!!!!

[GatbTester]

Hate to say it, but it's always about money with the developer.....ALWAYS..present, past, and future....and that will never change, they would step over a dollar to pick up a nickel. There are days when one wonders when enough is enough.....but knowing how they operate it is not surprising. Look at how many stores that have left Sumter Landing recently due to rents being upped. Shame on you know who.......shame!

[chelsea24]

that the so called planners could not find a way to save the stately oak on the hill. It would have provided a beautiful setting of some kind...any kind whether the plan is commercial or residential.

This is a case where clearly the dollars to be gained far out weighed the removal of stately oaks, hundreds of years in the making.

When we lived in SC they were a protected species. I have seen stores like Publix have to modify their footprint to fit in areas where the oaks were.....the parking lot made smaller to assure no taking down of the stately oaks. No one seemed to suffer financially.

There are a lot of things TV does that can be rationalized in one behalf or another....the removal of the oak on the hill is nothing less than STUPID, INCONSIDERATE GREED. A black mark in my once high value of TV for their overall approach.

While after the fact and of no consequence except self satisfaction, I will register my complaint and opinion to Gary and Mark Morse.

I am not a tree hugger, but the removal of stately oaks should be a criminal offense......

btk

BTK, you and I seldom agree, but on this we certainly do! Well, said. :agree:
(And I STILL miss the buffalo!)

[Bogie Shooter]

In the time that I have lived here I have expressed my admiration for the developer's business acumen but I also belong to the POA.
What does this mean?

[jtdraig]

Heard it was going to be bowling alley.....don't know if it is true but if it is:yuck:barf

[pooh]

Heard it was going to be bowling alley.....don't know if it is true but if it is:yuck:barf
If it is a bowling alley, then I'm for it. Maybe you don't bowl, but that sport is one that lots of people in The Villages play and the two facilities that we presently have are extremely busy.

I do feel sadness about the trees being cut. Were these old trees free from disease? Maybe, maybe not. Old trees are subject to disease, becoming brittle and having limbs fall, even though they look healthy. Winds can cause limbs to come crashing down.
Saw enough tall trees fall in CA....eucalyptus to be specific. Granted, they aren't live oak, but tall, old trees can still be a problem. Where I lived, an entire orchard had to be removed...the trees look healthy, but the roots were infected and the trees were going to die.

I'm saddened that an old tree has been removed. Maybe it was just because the space was needed, maybe it was because of potential problems with it in the future. We don't know specifically and speculating is just that, speculating. If I sound like I'm defending the builder, it's not my intention, though he is the one who owns the property and has the right to do as he wishes, with permission from all local authorities.

[pqrstar]

In my former state, developers built a mall called "The Oaks."

They designed the parking lot with large grassy areas to protect the hugh trees.

All the trees died within a few years.

I guess they were just too stressed.

[Chi-Town]

Went past there yesterday. It appears that they are staking lots. Could be an extension of Bridgeport at Lake Sumter. It would make sense to build Premier homes on valuable lakefront property. Unfortunately, nobody wants to pay that price and have their view affected by trees. That could be the reason for their untimely removal.

[Pturner]

If the tree had been diseased and required removal, this would have been explained in The Daily Sun. Yes, I know the developer had the right to do it. That doesn't make it the right thing to do. :cry:

[Chi-Town]

I agree.

[Bogie Shooter]

If the tree had been diseased and required removal, this would have been explained in The Daily Sun. Yes, I know the developer had the right to do it. That doesn't make it the right thing to do. :cry:
You would not read that in the Daily Sun.

[tpop1]

Were no stately oaks removed to build our lovely Villages homes?

[Russ_Boston]

Were no stately oaks removed to build our lovely Villages homes?

This is mostly just another NIMBY. Of course many were removed. But (IMHO) TV's main thoroughfares (Buena Vista, Morse) look fantastic with the beautiful oaks with the Spanish moss.

Should trees be spared if possible? Of course. But sometimes it is not possible.

[rabonkmontage@msn.com]

There will be more tree's lost when they widen the golf cart paths up north.

[Bogie Shooter]

There will be more tree's lost when they widen the golf cart paths up north.

And more trees will be planted.

[2catsmeow]

I just heard that they are supposed to be building a bowling alley on that property - has anyone else heard that?

[Bogie Shooter]

I just heard that they are supposed to be building a bowling alley on that property - has anyone else heard that?
Did you hear that by reading the above posts?

[bkcunningham1]

Not to be disrespectful of anyone. When life gives you acorns, make oak trees...so to speak. We have two stately live oaks on our property in the prehistoric side of The Villages; one on the golf course side and one on the street side. We are very protective of these, sorry to be cliche', majestic trees. But hey, we are humans here in this space we call earth. Urban sprawl doesn't have to mean neglect. Many of us brag and are rightfully proud about what type of wood floors or cabinets we have. It took trees to make these human commodities. I think that is great and the way it was intended to be. But, look to the future. Plant a tree to replace the ones lost. They are long term renewable resources.

http://forestry.about.com/od/treeplanting/p/oak_acorn.htm

http://www.projo.com/garden/content/lh_acorns_01-27-08_PO7ULDA_v4.1c79307.html

[GatbTester]

Now that is the first suggestion I find credence in......a bowling alley, then cutting down the Oaks makes all the sense in the world to be used as pins in the alleys. Duh!

[thistrucksforyou]

you can't stop progress....I wander what was changes to build the house you live in that someone else enjoyed....Just a thought

[GatbTester]

Wandering had nothing to do with it. Money did.....and don't YOU every forget it. The only thing that is important here is the BUCK! And if YOU think different, buzz off.

[llaran]

the villages planning map i saw a while ago had that area being built with villas.

[Bogie Shooter]

Wandering had nothing to do with it. Money did.....and don't YOU every forget it. The only thing that is important here is the BUCK! And if YOU think different, buzz off.
Do you like it here?

[Donna2]

Do you like it here?

LOL I was thinking the same thing.

[redwitch]

I whined, whimpered and even shed a few tears at the loss of our buffalo. I understood that the developer had the right to take them away. The excuse was lawsuits. The reality was the land was wanted for the lifestyle cottages and whatever else is to be developed on those lots in the not-so-distant future. I do wonder if the buffalo are thriving elsewhere or have become dinner at Lopez. I'll never know and I doubt anyone else not already in the know will, either.

I won't whine nor whimper about the trees, but I'll resent whatever is built there took them away. I'll be hard-pressed to believe that there wasn't a way to keep the trees and still build.

It truly angers me that we are told about how environmentally conscious the developer is, how the ponds are wildlife preserves, how the buffalo were protected. Of course, it was not mentioned that the ponds were also retention ponds with reclaimed and smelly water; that the tax writeoff is the real reason behind the wildlife preserves; that once they've maxed out the writeoff or have found something more profitable, the preserves will disappear. Fortunately, the ponds will stay since they serve other purposes (water for the common areas, premium lot prices [I wouldn't want to fight the lawsuit that occur if the ponds were drained and not refilled]).

There is much to love in TV. There is much to not love about the Morses. We can appreciate what has been accomplished in the concept and building of TV, but that was due more to Harold Schwartz than Gary or Mark Morse. I can admire the business acumen of the Morses, but I certainly don't have to respect their greed any more than I have to like their political bent.

BTW -- Before anyone gets on their high horse, there are things I do admire about the Morse family. They are generous. They are good business people. They were/are visionaries. They are also greedy. They will nickel and dime Villagers as much as humanly possible. We can love TV without loving the Morses. We do have to tip our hats and respect what they have done in the past but that doesn't mean we have to like the decisions of the present or the future.

[Taj44]

Redwitch, well said. My thoughts exactly. Do I like the Morses and their corporate bull$$$t? No, but I will enjoy The Villages on my own terms.

[Army Guy]

ok, once again I have been lurking on the sidelines following this discussion over the past few days. I guess I will wade into this discussion and state my two cents and MHO, though I know it may make some mad but again JMHO.
Ok, TV is a business, it was started like everyother business, to make a profit. That is the American Way which I believe 99% of us at TV believe and support. That is what makes and will make America great. A business can either be private as TV is, or publicly traded, doesn't matter it still is in business to make money. BUT remember, even though a business makes money, it also puts a lot of that money back into it to make it better, grow, etc. Yes, a business gets tax write offs like nature areas, wetlands, etc like TV does. BUT that keeps money from going to the IRS and distributed ???? (ok, that is where I stop with that comment to not be policitical!) And allows more money to be put back into the business. So yes, some may say the Morses are "greedy", I say they are smart business people, they make money that then allows them to develop and start new things and future businesses which allow job growth. Look on the "Big Home in Pennecamp thread" go to Hawkwinds link and see just what the Morses have developed all in the process of developing TV for US, i.e. those of us that "CHOSE" to buy here. Look at all the jobs created for an otherwise rural area. Look at how many ventures were created to increase the value of both OUR property and the Villages quality of life. And REMEMBER the Morses live here, even when the older family members retire, they still want TV to thrive for both their quality of life as well as profit.
Next, trees. Yes, nature as a whole is beautiful and I love big old Southern Oaks covered in moss, as well as the next guy, but look around TV, they have a pretty good record of replanting areas after construction, yes the new trees will not be 100 year old oaks, BUT that is progress, and that is part of the business of TV. If it is a bowling alley, I will bet after it's built many Villagers will enjoy it, have good times there with family, friends, Grandkids, etc making memories. If we don't bowl, and neither me or the wife do, I will bet many of us will go and eat there, like Tony Packo's, etc. It will become part of TV life. The oak will not have died in vain, just like the other trees, prairie areas, etc that existed before our homes in TV were built. But as in all things, new life has come from old.
Again, just my two cents.....

Army Guy

[chuckster]

Well put and I agree with you concerning the abundant green space and planting of trees after construction (have 2 stately 15 foot oaks in my yard). Hard to believe the condemnation regarding the present topic by some. They I am sure were or have always been unhappy no matter where they lived. Lighten up and enjoy the years left to us before the big villages in the sky calls...............

[Army Guy]

Chuckster, Great Comment!! I agree 100%

Army Guy

[pooh]

ok, once again I have been lurking on the sidelines following this discussion over the past few days. I guess I will wade into this discussion and state my two cents and MHO, though I know it may make some mad but again JMHO.
Ok, TV is a business, it was started like everyother business, to make a profit. That is the American Way which I believe 99% of us at TV believe and support. That is what makes and will make America great. A business can either be private as TV is, or publicly traded, doesn't matter it still is in business to make money. BUT remember, even though a business makes money, it also puts a lot of that money back into it to make it better, grow, etc. Yes, a business gets tax write offs like nature areas, wetlands, etc like TV does. BUT that keeps money from going to the IRS and distributed ???? (ok, that is where I stop with that comment to not be policitical!) And allows more money to be put back into the business. So yes, some may say the Morses are "greedy", I say they are smart business people, they make money that then allows them to develop and start new things and future businesses which allow job growth. Look on the "Big Home in Pennecamp thread" go to Hawkwinds link and see just what the Morses have developed all in the process of developing TV for US, i.e. those of us that "CHOSE" to buy here. Look at all the jobs created for an otherwise rural area. Look at how many ventures were created to increase the value of both OUR property and the Villages quality of life. And REMEMBER the Morses live here, even when the older family members retire, they still want TV to thrive for both their quality of life as well as profit.
Next, trees. Yes, nature as a whole is beautiful and I love big old Southern Oaks covered in moss, as well as the next guy, but look around TV, they have a pretty good record of replanting areas after construction, yes the new trees will not be 100 year old oaks, BUT that is progress, and that is part of the business of TV. If it is a bowling alley, I will bet after it's built many Villagers will enjoy it, have good times there with family, friends, Grandkids, etc making memories. If we don't bowl, and neither me or the wife do, I will bet many of us will go and eat there, like Tony Packo's, etc. It will become part of TV life. The oak will not have died in vain, just like the other trees, prairie areas, etc that existed before our homes in TV were built. But as in all things, new life has come from old.
Again, just my two cents.....

Army Guy

Thank you, very well said.

[Bogie Shooter]

ok, once again I have been lurking on the sidelines following this discussion over the past few days. I guess I will wade into this discussion and state my two cents and MHO, though I know it may make some mad but again JMHO.
Ok, TV is a business, it was started like everyother business, to make a profit. That is the American Way which I believe 99% of us at TV believe and support. That is what makes and will make America great. A business can either be private as TV is, or publicly traded, doesn't matter it still is in business to make money. BUT remember, even though a business makes money, it also puts a lot of that money back into it to make it better, grow, etc. Yes, a business gets tax write offs like nature areas, wetlands, etc like TV does. BUT that keeps money from going to the IRS and distributed ???? (ok, that is where I stop with that comment to not be policitical!) And allows more money to be put back into the business. So yes, some may say the Morses are "greedy", I say they are smart business people, they make money that then allows them to develop and start new things and future businesses which allow job growth. Look on the "Big Home in Pennecamp thread" go to Hawkwinds link and see just what the Morses have developed all in the process of developing TV for US, i.e. those of us that "CHOSE" to buy here. Look at all the jobs created for an otherwise rural area. Look at how many ventures were created to increase the value of both OUR property and the Villages quality of life. And REMEMBER the Morses live here, even when the older family members retire, they still want TV to thrive for both their quality of life as well as profit.
Next, trees. Yes, nature as a whole is beautiful and I love big old Southern Oaks covered in moss, as well as the next guy, but look around TV, they have a pretty good record of replanting areas after construction, yes the new trees will not be 100 year old oaks, BUT that is progress, and that is part of the business of TV. If it is a bowling alley, I will bet after it's built many Villagers will enjoy it, have good times there with family, friends, Grandkids, etc making memories. If we don't bowl, and neither me or the wife do, I will bet many of us will go and eat there, like Tony Packo's, etc. It will become part of TV life. The oak will not have died in vain, just like the other trees, prairie areas, etc that existed before our homes in TV were built. But as in all things, new life has come from old.
Again, just my two cents.....

Army Guy
Much more than two cents worth.

[Army Guy]

I am sorry Bogie, but you are right, guess it is more like 50 cents!

Army Guy

[bkcunningham1]

Two cents or 50 cents Army Guy, your post, to me, just made lots of sense.

[Bogie Shooter]

Army Guy, I too was trying to say that you added a great deal. I agree with what you said.

[Army Guy]

I know Bogie, just having fun with you!

Army Guy

[spk7951]

Army Guy, Great post agree with you 100%!

As to a previous post questioning the Buffalo, yes they are thriving or appear to be thriving in a field west of hole #6 off Amberwood.

[Russ_Boston]

Not to be disrespectful of anyone. When life gives you acorns, make oak trees...so to speak. We have two stately live oaks on our property in the prehistoric side of The Villages; one on the golf course side and one on the street side. We are very protective of these, sorry to be cliche', majestic trees. But hey, we are humans here in this space we call earth. Urban sprawl doesn't have to mean neglect. Many of us brag and are rightfully proud about what type of wood floors or cabinets we have. It took trees to make these human commodities. I think that is great and the way it was intended to be. But, look to the future. Plant a tree to replace the ones lost. They are long term renewable resources.

http://forestry.about.com/od/treeplanting/p/oak_acorn.htm

http://www.projo.com/garden/content/lh_acorns_01-27-08_PO7ULDA_v4.1c79307.html

Respectfully I'd like to say: Of course we should be wary of lost old growth forest trees. BUT if TV had left the majority of trees then TV wouldn't be TV as we now know it.

Does anyone know if they took strides to keep as much as possible?

[NJblue]

Some good points in this thread. I definitely see the point about TV being a money making venture that benefits not only the developer but also the residents and the local economy. I have no questions there.

However, I wonder if any outside-the-box thinking went into the planning for this development. Assuming that this will be residential of some sort (I highly doubt the bowling alley theory - I can't imagine prime, waterfront property being wasted on something that would not take advantage of it), I wonder if the developer considered deviating from his normal model for residential areas and considered making a pocket park around the trees. Yes, he would lose revenues from the land devoted to the park. However, the addition of a small park, especially if it had a water view, would increase the value of his remaining plots, possibly to the point that his net profits increased. This would have been a win-win for everyone.

[pooh]

Some good points in this thread. I definitely see the point about TV being a money making venture that benefits not only the developer but also the residents and the local economy. I have no questions there.

However, I wonder if any outside-the-box thinking went into the planning for this development. Assuming that this will be residential of some sort (I highly doubt the bowling alley theory - I can't imagine prime, waterfront property being wasted on something that would not take advantage of it), I wonder if the developer considered deviating from his normal model for residential areas and considered making a pocket park around the trees. Yes, he would lose revenues from the land devoted to the park. However, the addition of a small park, especially if it had a water view, would increase the value of his remaining plots, possibly to the point that his net profits increased. This would have been a win-win for everyone.

The land is zoned for a particular purpose. Any changes might need approval by the land use permit providers, correct? It's not always feasible to change horses in mid stream.

The park would be lovely, but again, I'm not sure how easy it is to change the proposed and approved use.

[NJblue]

The land is zoned for a particular purpose. Any changes might need approval by the land use permit providers, correct? It's not always feasible to change horses in mid stream.

The park would be lovely, but again, I'm not sure how easy it is to change the proposed and approved use.

I doubt that any zoning board would ever object to a park that benefits the community. (Usually it is the zoning board which grants a request for residential use only if a park or something to benefit the community is included.) However, my comment still applies. When the original zoning was applied for, the outside-the-box planning by the developer would already have been done and the zoning request would include the park.