Kraft arrested

[My Post]

NE Pats owner Robert Kraft arrested in Jupiter Fla in prostitution sting. Asian massage "spa" that had been shut down recently for 7 months for trafficking women in from China.

Kraft saying he didn't do it.

[My Post]

More: Daily Mail UK saying Cops have video.

[DeanFL]

More: Daily Mail UK saying Cops have video.

PLEASE folks. For anyone that may download or screengrab a portion of Kraft "having relations"... be courteous and kind to your fellow TVrs. I, for one, would never be able to erase a image as that from my mind when tailing off to zzzzland.

So please keep it to yourself and not subject anyone else to images as that. I mean watching that Super Bowl was enough torture (I'm a Pat's fan). Don't compound it with more horrifying images of an old person trying to play in a young person's game...:22yikes::22yikes:

[My Post]

I wouldn't care with consenting adults but these girls are not treated well.

Sheriff: Had no days off. 1,500 men a year. Hygiene "marginal at best."

That ain't nice.

Oh, and Shefter ESPN is saying Kraft isn't the biggest name in the sting.

[Bjeanj]

Ooh, ick. Aside from the human trafficking issue.

[Kenswing]

You would think with his kind of money he could be a little more discrete..

[My Post]

You would think with his kind of money he could be a little more discrete..

I agree 100%. One of our good local ladies speculated that was part of the thrill maybe.

Not a very Krafty decision.

One of the other gents picked up was 85!!! Jeez. Give it a rest, bro.
If I were him I would just pretend I didn't know where I was. What, you mean this isn't the library? Damn bifocals!

[Fredman]

Wonder what the NFL will do with him?

[manaboutown]

Oh, and Shefter ESPN is saying Kraft isn't the biggest name in the sting.

Isn't Anthony Weiner out of prison now? He might be on the list although maybe he has had to remain in a halfway house in NY.

[My Post]

Yup, good call. He ordered food from the halfway house the other day and left a bad tip. I find Huma to be very attractive for some reason.

[Madelaine Amee]

I bet his wife is just "thrilled" with this news. She has to take his arm and hold her head up high the next time they go to some gala. What an arse!

[fw102807]

I bet his wife is just "thrilled" with this news. She has to take his arm and hold her head up high the next time they go to some gala. What an arse!

His wife of 48 years died 8 years ago and he has been coming undone since then. Sad and pathetic she must be rolling in her grave.

[Taltarzac725]

They should legalize prostitution and tax the **** out of it. I remember Joe Conforte and his girls having their own float in various parades in Reno, Nevada. It is legal only in some counties in Nevada. Not those that house Reno nor Las Vegas.

[Madelaine Amee]

His wife of 48 years died 8 years ago and he has been coming undone since then. Sad and pathetic she must be rolling in her grave.

I thought he had remarried. Now I feel bad for him.

[manaboutown]

This somehow brings to mind the deflated balls scandal the Patriots suffered.

[600th Photo Sq]

I wonder why " Allegedly " wasn't used. Hmm, possible lawsuit.

[Fredman]

I thought he had remarried. Now I feel bad for him.
why would you feel sorry him. He is no better than the person who held those girls captive.

[Two Bills]

Did the lady take a knee?

[Kenswing]

I wouldn't care with consenting adults but these girls are not treated well.

Sheriff: Had no days off. 1,500 men a year. Hygiene "marginal at best."

That ain't nice.

Oh, and Shefter ESPN is saying Kraft isn't the biggest name in the sting.
Since this happened in Florida I wonder if Tiger is one of the bigger names. He's known to have gone down that path a time or two..

[Nucky]

I feel most sorry for the girls who are controlled. This is something you can hate all you want but it won't go away, isn't it called the Worlds Oldest Profession?

I feel Sorry For Mr. Kraft. I am not a fan of his team but as a person I always liked him.

After the recent developments on other issues in the news wouldn't it be proper to see how this really plays out instead of pronouncing him guilty because we heard it on

the TV or Radio?

If God Forbid I ever had the personal problem of losing my wife I have no idea of how I would cope. Each person is different. If by chance he is guilty I hope he uses

his stature to help any person that all that money he has can help. I don't think as smart as he is that he thought this all the way through. Time will tell the real story in

ALL the cases that are pending not just this one.

ANYONE who is guilty should be held to the letter of the law like you and I would be.

[Taltarzac725]

I feel most sorry for the girls who are controlled. This is something you can hate all you want but it won't go away, isn't it called the Worlds Oldest Profession?

I feel Sorry For Mr. Kraft. I am not a fan of his team but as a person I always liked him.

After the recent developments on other issues in the news wouldn't it be proper to see how this really plays out instead of pronouncing him guilty because we heard it on

the TV or Radio?

If God Forbid I ever had the personal problem of losing my wife I have no idea of how I would cope. Each person is different. If by chance he is guilty I hope he uses

his stature to help any person that all that money he has can help. I don't think as smart as he is that he thought this all the way through. Time will tell the real story in

ALL the cases that are pending not just this one.

ANYONE who is guilty should be held to the letter of the law like you and I would be.

Money gets the best lawyers and unfortunately given the current state of our legal system that still makes a HUGE difference in some trial outcomes. Can depend though a lot on the judge and the jury. If there even is one as many cases are plea bargained.

[Nucky]

Money gets the best lawyers and unfortunately given the current state of our legal system that still makes a HUGE difference in some trial outcomes. Can depend though a lot on the judge and the jury. If there even is one as many cases are plea bargained.

I wonder if he used his one call to call Morgan & Morgan? I'm just kidding Tal, I agree with you.

Can you imagine playing Let's Make A Deal when you own a Football Team?

Let's give it time and see what's up! :popcorn:

[Bucco]

I feel most sorry for the girls who are controlled. This is something you can hate all you want but it won't go away, isn't it called the Worlds Oldest Profession?

I feel Sorry For Mr. Kraft. I am not a fan of his team but as a person I always liked him.

After the recent developments on other issues in the news wouldn't it be proper to see how this really plays out instead of pronouncing him guilty because we heard it on

the TV or Radio?

If God Forbid I ever had the personal problem of losing my wife I have no idea of how I would cope. Each person is different. If by chance he is guilty I hope he uses

his stature to help any person that all that money he has can help. I don't think as smart as he is that he thought this all the way through. Time will tell the real story in

ALL the cases that are pending not just this one.

ANYONE who is guilty should be held to the letter of the law like you and I would be.

ANYONE is correct.

Full story needed is correct.

A few things I have not seen mentioned. Kraft has a girlfriend, a 39 year old model, and is an associate of Jeffrey Epstein and others. Being an "associate" means little in the rich confines of south Florida, but hearing some extend sympathies to him makes me cringe.

[manaboutown]

Unfortunately this is going on all over the country. Massage Parlor Busts Leads To Sex Slave Investigation (https://www.koat.com/article/massage-parlor-busts-leads-to-sex-slave-investigation/5034534)

[fw102807]

I feel most sorry for the girls who are controlled. This is something you can hate all you want but it won't go away, isn't it called the Worlds Oldest Profession?

I feel Sorry For Mr. Kraft. I am not a fan of his team but as a person I always liked him.

After the recent developments on other issues in the news wouldn't it be proper to see how this really plays out instead of pronouncing him guilty because we heard it on

the TV or Radio?

If God Forbid I ever had the personal problem of losing my wife I have no idea of how I would cope. Each person is different. If by chance he is guilty I hope he uses

his stature to help any person that all that money he has can help. I don't think as smart as he is that he thought this all the way through. Time will tell the real story in

ALL the cases that are pending not just this one.

ANYONE who is guilty should be held to the letter of the law like you and I would be.

I am wondering if he is suffering from dementia

[tophcfa]

I wonder why " Allegedly " wasn't used. Hmm, possible lawsuit.

After what just happened with the Jussie Smollett thing, you would think "Allegedly" would be used in all reported crimes until a Judge and Jury reach a final verdict. On the other hand, if there really is authentic and clear video of Kraft committing what he "Allegedly" is reported to have done, videos don't lie.

[Bucco]

After what just happened with the Jussie Smollett thing, you would think "Allegedly" would be used in all reported crimes until a Judge and Jury reach a final verdict. On the other hand, if there really is authentic and clear video of Kraft committing what he "Allegedly" is reported to have done, videos don't lie.

Two completely different things.

One is a private citizen filing a false police report

The other is getting caught by police on video as part of a state wide crackdown on these operations.

[tophcfa]

Two completely different things.

One is a private citizen filing a false police report

The other is getting caught by police on video as part of a state wide crackdown on these operations.

Both are private citizens that the media claimed as guilty, not "Allegedly" guilty, before all the facts have been disclosed. As I stated, if there really is authentic and clear video of what Kraft "Allegedly" did, then he is guilty and the omission of the term "Allegedly" is warranted. Have you seen the video, and if so, is it clear and does it undeniably identify Kraft doing something illegal?

[manaboutown]

Two completely different things.

One is a private citizen filing a false police report

The other is getting caught by police on video as part of a state wide crackdown on these operations.

The filing of a false police report in the Smollett case is a felony.

[Bucco]

The filing of a false police report in the Smollett case is a felony.

AS IT SHOULD BE WITH SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES.

I was referring to the "allegation" aspect and the giving of sympathies.

This "crime" if he was a citizen if this county would only get him a letter in the mail and a fine.

He made a choice, and allegedly made that choice more than once. How do you choose people to get sympathy ?

If not for his reputation, nobody would even know.

Anyone who reads anything knows these oriental massage parlors are all the same, thus the crackdown by police state wide

[ColdNoMore]

The fact of the matter is, that if there weren't so many willing to pay for transactional sex...it wouldn't exist.

Some say legalizing it would solve most of the problems...others have a different view.

Here is a good Pro/Con look...at legalizing prostitution.

Legalizing Prostitution (click here) (http://transactional)


Probably the most surprising thing to me regarding the allegations against Kraft, is him going to a strip-mall spa in the first place.

Particularly since he doesn't seem to know (care?)...how these women/girls are procured and/or abused?

I mean really, with his money he couldn't figure out a way to satisfy his urges, with willing adult women...at a less public location? :oops:

Even though I'm a Patriots fan and admire what he's done in football, in this situation (if proven true)...I have absolutely no empathy/sympathy for him.

[Bucco]

The fact of the matter is, that if there weren't so many willing to pay for transactional sex...it wouldn't exist.

Some say legalizing it would solve most of the problems...others have a different view.

Here is a good Pro/Con look...at legalizing prostitution.

Legalizing Prostitution (click here) (http://transactional)


Probably the most surprising thing to me regarding the allegations against Kraft, is him going to a strip-mall spa in the first place.

Particularly since he doesn't seem to know (care?)...how these women/girls are procured and/or abused?

I mean really, with his money he couldn't figure out a way to satisfy his urges, with willing adult women...at a less public location? :oops:

Even though I'm a Patriots fan and admire what he's done in football, in this situation (if proven true)...I have absolutely no empathy/sympathy for him.

Thanks for clarifying my comments...my entire thrust was how can you sympathize with a very rich man, with a much younger girl friend, visiting a strip mall to get a "massage". "ALLEGEDLY"

Stories of how these women are conned when brought to this country are many and terrible.

[Bay Kid]

I wouldn't care with consenting adults but these girls are not treated well.

Sheriff: Had no days off. 1,500 men a year. Hygiene "marginal at best."

That ain't nice.

Oh, and Shefter ESPN is saying Kraft isn't the biggest name in the sting.

That is gross. And they pay for that????

[villagerjack]

No one was convicted of anything. Sex trafficking is still an allegation.

[villagerjack]

Everyone posting on here with pre drawn conclusions is now disqualified from the jury pool if there even is a trial. Hard to get a jury now that is not tainted by the news reports. Let’s just assume all the men are guilty and all the women are victims. What has this world come to ?

[Bucco]

Everyone posting on here with pre drawn conclusions is now disqualified from the jury pool if there even is a trial. Hard to get a jury now that is not tainted by the news reports. Let’s just assume all the men are guilty and all the women are victims. What has this world come to ?

I am sure you know by now there is NO jury trial. He will be fined and that is it.

Only big story because of who he is.

Add to the list....former CEO of Citigroup, and the president of a Boys and Girls Club, and three law enforcement officials.

Seems the well planned crackdown is working.

Oh, and the world is just fine......most problems are from folks who take no time to find out what is real or made up

My personal frustration is that posters on here, and others make no effort to search for what is true and factual and are led by other things.

[Bucco]

To be clear, Kraft and attys are proclaiming innocence to the main thrust of the investigation......trafficking.......he and others just were caught up in the investigations...and police should be cheered on in their work rather than defending those caught up in a web becaue they were doing something that should not have been doing and were in a place where they should not have been


"NFL owner Robert Kraft isn’t the only prominent name snagged in a Florida prostitution bust.

The sweeping sex sting also nabbed a former Citigroup president and a president of a Florida Boys and Girls Club, according to reports.

At the same time, WPEC-TV reported Friday that the probe also nabbed three former law enforcement officers in Indian River County.

Kraft, the billionaire owner of the New England Patriots, is facing charges of soliciting a prostitute after he was twice videotaped in a sex act at Orchids of Asia, police said."

Ex-Citigroup president caught up in prostitution sting that ensnared Robert Kraft, report says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-citigroup-president-caught-up-in-prostitution-sting-that-ensnared-robert-kraft-report-says)


"VERO BEACH — A six-month investigation revealed human traffickers were luring vulnerable girls to massage parlors in Indian River County, where they were coerced into working as prostitutes, police announced Thursday.

Ten spas from the Orlando area through the Treasure Coast into Palm Beach County were shut down Tuesday as law enforcement began making arrests.

Vero Beach Police Chief David Currey said he believes the investigation "put a heck of a dent in human trafficking and sex trade" locally.

Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people, on charges ranging from human trafficking to racketeering to soliciting prostitution.


https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/21/human-trafficking-florida-massage-parlors-vero-beach-sebastian/2920354002/

[ColdNoMore]

Snip>...Vero Beach Police Chief David Currey said he believes the investigation "put a heck of a dent in human trafficking and sex trade" locally.

Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people, on charges ranging from human trafficking to racketeering to soliciting prostitution.

Human trafficking in Florida massage parlors in Vero Beach, Sebastian (https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/21/human-trafficking-florida-massage-parlors-vero-beach-sebastian/2920354002/)


EXCELLENT! :thumbup:

Analogous to the problem with undocumented workers, the quickest way to put a dent into the problem...is to start throwing the book at those who hire/pay for them.

With being a 'John' only a misdemeanor though, that book...doesn't have many pages. :ohdear:

[villagerjack]

Sex trafficking is just an allegation. Could be many of those women just selling themselves for cash. No one knows. The sex trafficking prostitution is a very minor part of women prostituting themselves but a way to place the blame on men and callwomen victims. Google PORN and you will get a good dose of what women will do for money. Withoutwomen the Porn industry would hardly exist. Imagine...if people would just stop paying money for cars we could eliminate all car accidents.

[manaboutown]

This sort of situation is as old as mankind's settlements, no doubt. If you ever get to Pompeii the brothel or house of prostitution there is one of the best preserved buildings. It is easy to find as footprints carved into the stone walkway lead to it. Pompeii's Whorehouse: Erotic Murals Re-Exposed - SPIEGEL ONLINE (http://www.spiegel.de/international/pompeii-s-whorehouse-erotic-murals-re-exposed-a-445134.html)

[ColdNoMore]

Sex trafficking is just an allegation. Could be many of those women just selling themselves for cash. No one knows. The sex trafficking prostitution is a very minor part of women prostituting themselves but a way to place the blame on men and callwomen victims. Google PORN and you will get a good dose of what women will do for money. Withoutwomen the Porn industry would hardly exist. Imagine...if people would just stop paying money for cars we could eliminate all car accidents.

Color me...gobsmacked. :ohdear:

[Bucco]

Color me...gobsmacked. :ohdear:

Post 39 and 40 defy my imagination.

[fishon]

I can't say that I would expect any other behavior from an NFL owner. The league's participants are so pious.

[villagerjack]

Post 39 and 40 defy my imagination.

There is very little to imagine if the truth would be printed about women selling their bodies for cash and once caught at it, claim that they are completely innocent of any charges even though they broke the law.

Consenting adults are permitted to engage in sexual activity. No crime there. The crime comes in when the women demand cash for their services. So how come none of these women are named.Were they charged? If not, why not ?

[JSR22]

There is very little to imagine if the truth would be printed about women selling their bodies for cash and once caught at it, claim that they are completely innocent of any charges even though they broke the law.

Consenting adults are permitted to engage in sexual activity. No crime there. The crime comes in when the women demand cash for their services. So how come none of these women are named.Were they charged? If not, why not ?

Could be they were under age and were trafficked here against their will.

[Bucco]

There is very little to imagine if the truth would be printed about women selling their bodies for cash and once caught at it, claim that they are completely innocent of any charges even though they broke the law.

Consenting adults are permitted to engage in sexual activity. No crime there. The crime comes in when the women demand cash for their services. So how come none of these women are named.Were they charged? If not, why not ?

Seems you have no idea what this is about......perhaps this might help a bit...

"Human trafficking is modern-day slavery and involves the use of force, fraud, or coercion to obtain some type of labor or commercial sex act.

Every year, millions of men, women, and children are trafficked in countries around the world, including the United States. It is estimated that human trafficking generates many billions of dollars of profit per year, second only to drug trafficking as the most profitable form of transnational crime."

What Is Human Trafficking? | Homeland Security (https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/what-human-trafficking)

Human Trafficking is a crime that involves exploiting a person for labor, services, or commercial sex.

The Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 and its subsequent reauthorizations define human trafficking as:

a) Sex trafficking in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age; or

b) The recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery. (22 U.S.C. § 7102(9)).

Human Trafficking | Department of Justice (https://www.justice.gov/humantrafficking)

[Bucco]

Could be they were under age and were trafficked here against their will.

Not a question.

THAT is EXACTLY the reason for the situations.

Arrests for those promoting and managing......citations for those who enable by doing business.

Google Jeff Epstein to see the enormous spread of this garbage. I applaud Florida for doing what they are doing.

[ColdNoMore]

There is very little to imagine if the truth would be printed about women selling their bodies for cash and once caught at it, claim that they are completely innocent of any charges even though they broke the law.

Consenting adults are permitted to engage in sexual activity. No crime there. The crime comes in when the women demand cash for their services. So how come none of these women are named.Were they charged? If not, why not ?

"Demand?"

Like it wasn't known...upfront? :oops:

To me, this comes across as being bitter about 'John's'...having to pay.

[villagerjack]

"Demand?"

Like it wasn't known...upfront? :oops:

To me, this comes across as being bitter about 'John's'...having to pay.

Without the cash there is no crime. She brought up the subject of cash . Not him.

Not bitter but concerned about fairness in the legal system. Women committing crimes should be held accountable and their names made public if the men’s names are disclosed. This leaves the door wide open for women selling their bodies for cash to claim victim hood once caught in the act.

[ColdNoMore]

Without the cash there is no crime. She brought up the subject of cash . Not him.

Not bitter but concerned about fairness in the legal system. Women committing crimes should be held accountable and their names made public if the men’s names are disclosed. This leaves the door wide open for women selling their bodies for cash to claim victim hood once caught in the act.

And you know this...how?

Since I must have missed it in the couple of articles I read...do you have proof/link?

[villagerjack]

Could be they were under age and were trafficked here against their will.

Could it be that you are speculating and and by speculating, contributing to sullying the reputation of a man with an impeccable reputation? He denies it. They don’t .

[JSR22]

Could it be that you are speculating and and by speculating, contributing to sullying the reputation of a man with an impeccable reputation? He denies it. They don’t .

There is video! Honestly, my giut is he is guilty.

[villagerjack]

There is video! Honestly, my giut is he is guilty.

Guilty by gut, a new legal standard. Scary.

[villagerjack]

Why should we hire lawyers and impanel juries when we could just ask your gut? We could save a lot of money and time.

[Bucco]

Why should we hire lawyers and impanel juries when we could just ask your gut? We could save a lot of money and time.

WHY do you continually defend those whose who commit such cowardly, and degrading acts ???

Of course proof must be made of any accusation (discounting the many made in 2016 with no evidence :icon_wink:)

If it makes you feel any better, justice does work and work very well in this country, except if you actually googled Jeff Epstein, and then you will see that the dirty P word is used to protect many.

I am so happy with the police doing this in Florida, and do not understand your non appreciation.

[CFrance]

They should legalize prostitution and tax the **** out of it. I remember Joe Conforte and his girls having their own float in various parades in Reno, Nevada. It is legal only in some counties in Nevada. Not those that house Reno nor Las Vegas.
The human trafficking part would still be there.

[villagerjack]

WHY do you continually defend those whose who commit such cowardly, and degrading acts ???

Of course proof must be made of any accusation (discounting the many made in 2016 with no evidence :icon_wink:)

If it makes you feel any better, justice does work and work very well in this country, except if you actually googled Jeff Epstein, and then you will see that the dirty P word is used to protect many.

I am so happy with the police doing this in Florida, and do not understand your non appreciation.

I am not defending anyone. Or anything. No one has been convicted of anything. Cowardly and Degrading acts? Who did what ? Selling your body for cash seems to be degrading, is that what you mean? Look, I don’t know what happened and neither do you. I do know of the dozens of cases where people were convicted in the Press, their lives destroyed because of a lot of speculation. The Duke Lacrosse case is just one. There are many others.

I did not say anything about not appreciating the police, you made that up.

So justice works very well in this country except in cases like Jeff Epstein where you don’t think it works very well, a glaring contradiction.

[Taltarzac725]

The human trafficking part would still be there.

To a lesser extent. You cannot get around human nature.

[Bucco]

The human trafficking part would still be there.

YOU GOT IT !

This is not even close to prostitution at all.

It is human slavery, bondage, etc.

Those fellows caught are enablers and contributing to the profit for those who enslave

[JoMar]

They should legalize prostitution and tax the **** out of it. I remember Joe Conforte and his girls having their own float in various parades in Reno, Nevada. It is legal only in some counties in Nevada. Not those that house Reno nor Las Vegas.

:agree:

[Bucco]

Folks, one more time.

This is NOT about simple prostitution. What part do you people not get.

This is about slavery cruel and inhumane punishment, this is NOT ABOUT YOU PAYING A WOMAN FOR SEX. These women who do not earn a dime, "are required to "turn tricks about 20 of 24 hours, 7 days a week.

All the comments demeaning women are completely mis aimed. Women in question were transported into this country with promises of jobs and a life, and instead are actually held captive

If prostitution was legal, this slavery would still exist.

I suppose if you condone any kind of slavery, inhuman practices, you would defend the practice, thus will assume you do condone it. THIS IS NOT PROSTITUTION...IT IS SLAVERY AND ABUSE.

YOU folks should get informed...read about Jeff Epstein and his cult of selling CHILDREN for sex, please investigate, not prostitution, but white slavery

Hard to believe that ANYONE can shrug this off as if it were a girl in a corner getting paid...these folks in the massage parlorsnever see one dime.

I suppose I do not know those who live in the Villages. To condone imprisoning women against their will, forcing them to exchange sexual favors to benefit the captors is NOT PROSTITUTION, it is degrading cruel behavior, and instead of other things throw these degenerates out of the country.

[manaboutown]

Anyone who reads anything knows these oriental massage parlors are all the same, thus the crackdown by police state wide

Since they are "all the same" I wonder if Kraft received the usually offered "happy ending"?

[Bucco]

Since they are "all the same" I wonder if Kraft received the usually offered "happy ending"?

Don't know. Only those who see the 2 videos will know.

It is still against the law and simply enables those who are being kept captive.

Why would you wonder...I don't want to know. He is on video receiving "sexual favors"

Am still amazed at the laissez faire attitude of some who find this cruelty funny or jocular.

[tophcfa]

Why would you wonder...I don't want to know. He is "ALLEGEDLY" on video receiving "sexual favors".



He might be on video, but then again he might not, let's wait and see until drawing conclusions. Jussie Smollett was not "Allegedly" a victim of a hate crime, until proven otherwise. Let's wait until the legal system goes through it's process, and then draw the appropriate conclusions.

As a life long Patriots fan, I hope he is not guilty, but if he is I hope he gets what he deserves. Just don't go rushing to judgement. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty????

[Bucco]

He might be on video, but then again he might not, let's wait and see until drawing conclusions. Jussie Smollett was not "Allegedly" a victim of a hate crime, until proven otherwise. Let's wait until the legal system goes through it's process, and then draw the appropriate conclusions.

As a life long Patriots fan, I hope he is not guilty, but if he is I hope he gets what he deserves. Just don't go rushing to judgement. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty????

Got it...you have an interest in Kraft being found not guilty despite two videos, and never mention the women enslaved that he enabled...twice

I do like the presumed innocence thing.....it has been put to the side for a bit.

And I was not aware Smollette has his trial,, but you say it is "proven" so I missed it...happy because his actions were really seriously bad but did not know he had already been convicted until you posted his guilt.

[villagerjack]

Folks, one more time.

This is NOT about simple prostitution. What part do you people not get.

This is about slavery cruel and inhumane punishment, this is NOT ABOUT YOU PAYING A WOMAN FOR SEX. These women who do not earn a dime, "are required to "turn tricks about 20 of 24 hours, 7 days a week.

All the comments demeaning women are completely mis aimed. Women in question were transported into this country with promises of jobs and a life, and instead are actually held captive

If prostitution was legal, this slavery would still exist.

I suppose if you condone any kind of slavery, inhuman practices, you would defend the practice, thus will assume you do condone it. THIS IS NOT PROSTITUTION...IT IS SLAVERY AND ABUSE.

YOU folks should get informed...read about Jeff Epstein and his cult of selling CHILDREN for sex, please investigate, not prostitution, but white slavery

Hard to believe that ANYONE can shrug this off as if it were a girl in a corner getting paid...these folks in the massage parlorsnever see one dime.

I suppose I do not know those who live in the Villages. To condone imprisoning women against their will, forcing them to exchange sexual favors to benefit the captors is NOT PROSTITUTION, it is degrading cruel behavior, and instead of other things throw these degenerates out of the country.


“Self-righteousness is a feeling or display of moral superiority derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person. Self-righteous individuals are often intolerant of the opinions and behaviors of others”

If the shoe fits.

[tophcfa]

Got it...you have an interest in Kraft being found not guilty despite two videos, and never mention the women enslaved that he enabled...twice

I do like the presumed innocence thing.....it has been put to the side for a bit.

And I was not aware Smollette has his trial,, but you say it is "proven" so I missed it...happy because his actions were really seriously bad but did not know he had already been convicted until you posted his guilt.

Smollette basically proved his guilt, through his legal council, when they instructed him to claim the hoax hate crim he orchestrated was not his fault because he is dealing with an untreated drug problem. That is the textbook legal way to get the most lenient possible sentence when being proven guilty and you know ther is no possible way to prove otherwise.

Kraft might be guilty of his accusations, time will tell. Regardless of how you feel about it, what Smollette did was a felony, what Kraft allegedly did is a misdemeanor.

[manaboutown]

Smollette basically proved his guilt, through his legal council, when they instructed him to claim the hoax hate crim he orchestrated was not his fault because he is dealing with an untreated drug problem. That is the textbook legal way to get the most lenient possible sentence when being proven guilty and you know ther is no possible way to prove otherwise.

Kraft might be guilty of his accusations, time will tell. Regardless of how you feel about it, what Smollette did was a felony, what Kraft allegedly did is a misdemeanor.

:mademyday:

[manaboutown]

Got it...you have an interest in Kraft being found not guilty despite two videos, and never mention the women enslaved that he enabled...twice

I do like the presumed innocence thing.....it has been put to the side for a bit.

And I was not aware Smollette has his trial,, but you say it is "proven" so I missed it...happy because his actions were really seriously bad but did not know he had already been convicted until you posted his guilt.

The Chicago Police have videos of Smollett. He did what he did, a felony, whether a jury (such as in the OJ fiasco) finds him guilty or not.

Apparently, the Florida sting obtained the names of about 200 clients. More shall be revealed, no doubt.

[graciegirl]

I know this. Mr. Kraft was not interested in having a "meaningful relationship". Again, there is a huge difference in genders. All two of them.

I think he was damn stupid.

I don't think most men are damn stupid, but some are enslaved by certain body parts. And so are women.

This problem has been with us since Eve ate that apple.

[villagerjack]

The Chicago Police have videos of Smollett. He did what he did, a felony, whether a jury (such as in the OJ fiasco) finds him guilty or not.

Apparently, the Florida sting obtained the names of about 200 clients. More shall be revealed, no doubt.

In the interest of fairness, the names of the operators, the women who consented to these actions should also be released if the names of the men are released. I wonder why, if they thought this was such a serious event that they waited until they entrapped 200 men when 10-20 would seem to be sufficient to make a case. If they closed down when they knew it was happening, many men whose names will be published could have been saved the embarrassment. You don’t leave the bank doors open so you can apprehend someone who may br thinking of robbing the bank.

IMO the large number of men allegedly involved were used to sensationalize the story and that is a shame.

[charmed59]

I think this is the point, there were no consenting women. They are slaves in a human trafficking ring. Now the ring operators, I’m sure their names will be made public.

[villagerjack]

I think this is the point, there were no consenting women. They are slaves in a human trafficking ring. Now the ring operators, I’m sure their names will be made public.


The women consented to sex. They were not forced. That would be rape and there are no such charges. Sex trafficking is just an allegation and the word “slave” is an affront to the very real travesty of slavery. Using 200 men to make their case and destroying a good man like Mr. Kraft, whose philanthropy work never made the news, is simply disgusting but expected in our new world of search and destroy journalism, particularly if you are a successful white man.

This is a pure and simple smear job. BTW I am a NY JETS fan since 1964 and have no love for the Patriots as a team.

[Bucco]

I think this is the point, there were no consenting women. They are slaves in a human trafficking ring. Now the ring operators, I’m sure their names will be made public.

Gawk away

Robert Kraft, Patriots owner, facing charge of soliciting another to commit prostitution | WSTM (https://cnycentral.com/news/nation-world/gallery/robert-kraft-owner-of-new-england-patriots-arrested-in-human-trafficking-crackdown#photo-2)

Robert Kraft prostitution arrest: See the photo of woman accused of owning massage parlor | nj.com (https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/02/robert-kraft-prostitution-arrest-heres-photo-of-woman-accused-of-owning-massage-parlor.html)

AGAIN.....THIS WAS NOT A PROSTITUTION STING BUT REVOLVED AROUND HUMAN TRAFFICKING

These names were included in the earliest and first reports. The goal was the ringleaders.

Why do not people read and make sure they are informed before coming on here and passing judgment.

Kraft and others were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....got misdemeanors, but the story is about HUMAN TRAFFICKING. They made a big error in judgement and if they lived in that county they would receive a letter with a fine.

It is amazing that so many on this forum of supposed adults would try and make this about anything that what it is....it is not about Smollett, not even close....it is what it is.

Again, applaud the police.......they worked hard on this ring, and are showing success....be proud of the police.

Whether you like the Patriots, Kraft or whatever, the story is still about them being caught as part of a sting going after human trafficking.

Why are we not applauding the police ?

[Bucco]

The women consented to sex. They were not forced. That would be rape and there are no such charges. Sex trafficking is just an allegation and the word “slave” is an affront to the very real travesty of slavery. Using 200 men to make their case and destroying a good man like Mr. Kraft, whose philanthropy work never made the news, is simply disgusting but expected in our new world of search and destroy journalism, particularly if you are a successful white man.

This is a pure and simple smear job. BTW I am a NY JETS fan since 1964 and have no love for the Patriots as a team.

You are so naive it is scary !!!!! I MEAN really scary

[Nucky]

You are so naive it is scary !!!!! I MEAN really scary

You were both doing good up until you just made a personal attack. Not good! :boxing2: Its villagejacks opinion.

[Bucco]

The women consented to sex. They were not forced. That would be rape and there are no such charges. Sex trafficking is just an allegation and the word “slave” is an affront to the very real travesty of slavery. Using 200 men to make their case and destroying a good man like Mr. Kraft, whose philanthropy work never made the news, is simply disgusting but expected in our new world of search and destroy journalism, particularly if you are a successful white man.

This is a pure and simple smear job. BTW I am a NY JETS fan since 1964 and have no love for the Patriots as a team.

Doubt if you care at all, or would possible listen as you are judge and jury, but in the fat chance....read and get a bit educated....

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/282798.pdf

Trafficking in Persons Report 2018 (https://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2018/)

"Sex trafficking: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a
person for the purpose of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or
coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age; (and)
• Labor trafficking: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or
services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude,
peonage, debt bondage, or slavery. (22 USC § 7102)


https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2018/info_flyers/fact_sheets/2018NCVRW_Trafficking_508_QC.pdf

2018 State Department Report on Human Trafficking Released - Homeland Security Digital Library (https://www.hsdl.org/c/2018-state-department-report-on-human-trafficking-released/)

Wake up to the real world instead of the fairyland in which you obviously dwell

[Kenswing]

You would think after the whole Covington Catholic - Nathan Phillips - Black Hebrew Israelites fiasco that people would wait for all the facts to come out before reaching a verdict. It seems that the only exercise that some people get is jumping to conclusions.

[Nucky]

Doubt if you care at all, or would possible listen as you are judge and jury, but in the fat chance....read and get a bit educated....

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/282798.pdf

Trafficking in Persons Report 2018 (https://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2018/)

"Sex trafficking: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a
person for the purpose of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or
coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age; (and)
• Labor trafficking: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or
services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude,
peonage, debt bondage, or slavery. (22 USC § 7102)


https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2018/info_flyers/fact_sheets/2018NCVRW_Trafficking_508_QC.pdf

2018 State Department Report on Human Trafficking Released - Homeland Security Digital Library (https://www.hsdl.org/c/2018-state-department-report-on-human-trafficking-released/)

Wake up to the real world instead of the fairyland in which you obviously dwell

Where does it say that Mr. Kraft was directly involved in Human Trafficking? He has not had his day in court yet. The recent developments in other cases should school us to calm down until the person accused has his due process in court.

[Bucco]

You were both doing good up until you just made a personal attack. Not good! :boxing2:

you are correct, but sick of hearing what NFL team anyone follows, or simply saying things that are not true, and in fact made up. Constant blaming the victim and in this case a VERY VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.

To pass judegement and say "The women consented to sex. They were not forced." after so many links to read and learn how serious this is and then...

" Using 200 men to make their case and destroying a good man like Mr. Kraft, whose philanthropy work never made the news, is simply disgusting but expected in our new world of search and destroy journalism, particularly if you are a successful white man. "

These are simply quotes from one post.

Sometimes you have to get attention anyway you can if folks persist in lying on here or just ignoring facts.

So many are posting and ignoring the human trafficking situation which is damn sad. Kraft was one major name and that is how it goes when you go to a strip mall, cash in hand, TWICE....he knew he was wrong and maybe because he is a "successful white man", as stated he can find a way out........you cannot excuse his behavior, and CERTAINLY throw up any defense for those who market in human trafficking.

[Bucco]

Where does it say that Mr. Kraft was directly involved in Human Trafficking? He has not had his day in court yet. The recent developments in other cases should school us to calm down until the person accused has his due process in court.

Holy cow.....I cannot believe this.....all posts have clearly VERY CLEARLY defined he was caught up in this mess because he visited a massage parlor that was part of an ongoing investigation by Florida police into human trafficking.

He committed a misdemeanor (defined several times), and if lived in that county he would have received a notice in the mail (like a traffic citation) and paid a fine.

Police goal was to get the TRAFFICKERS.....THEY DID.....WHY we do not applaud the police instead of defending a stupid decision by a man who certainly knows better simply escapes me.

Just hard to accept that people, instead of applauding law enforcement for doing their job and doing it well over months, are posting how they like the Jets, or how much money Kraft gave to charity, or how it is the women's fault............all extremely minor to the real story but maybe I read differently. Dont come on here and post about law and order though.

[villagerjack]

Where does it say that Mr. Kraft was directly involved in Human Trafficking? He has not had his day in court yet. The recent developments in other cases should school us to calm down until the person accused has his due process in court.

This is from your link

“USA Today reports Kraft was one of “at least 100 men” involved in the “human trafficking ring."

Did you read it?

[Bucco]

This is from your link

“USA Today reports Kraft was one of “at least 100 men” involved in the “human trafficking ring."

Did you read it?

I said that many times....listed those rich guys in addition to Kraft who were caught up in it.....SO FAR.

You are so hung up on Kraft, you simply refuse to learn anything or learn how to put things in the proper prospective.

[Nucky]

you are correct, but sick of hearing what NFL team anyone follows, or simply saying things that are not true, and in fact made up. Constant blaming the victim and in this case a VERY VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.

To pass judegement and say "The women consented to sex. They were not forced." after so many links to read and learn how serious this is and then...

" Using 200 men to make their case and destroying a good man like Mr. Kraft, whose philanthropy work never made the news, is simply disgusting but expected in our new world of search and destroy journalism, particularly if you are a successful white man. "

These are simply quotes from one post.

Sometimes you have to get attention anyway you can if folks persist in lying on here or just ignoring facts.

So many are posting and ignoring the human trafficking situation which is damn sad. Kraft was one major name and that is how it goes when you go to a strip mall, cash in hand, TWICE....he knew he was wrong and maybe because he is a "successful white man", as stated he can find a way out........you cannot excuse his behavior, and CERTAINLY throw up any defense for those who market in human trafficking.

Since I am just getting into the subject of Human Trafficking and have a whole lot to learn admittedly, is it true Mr. Kraft was not just a guy going to a prostitute for a fling. He actually arranged the trafficking of the People Who "Worked There". Maybe not all Women, I don't think they released the Video yet! Who Knows Today?

The first question that comes to mind is how did these people who are held hostage get into our country in the first place? What they are going thru is cruel. Can it be stopped? Can it be slowed down? Won't the operation just move to another spot? Like I said I don't know but it will be interesting to learn. I think the majority of men I know play their game on their own home field not an away game like this seems to be. If it's all true it's terrible. Insane if you ask me! :ohdear:

[villagerjack]

You were both doing good up until you just made a personal attack. Not good! :boxing2: Its villagejacks opinion.

Yes, he could have explained what the charges were against the women who operated the SPA and the women who allegedly sold their bodies for cash were.
And why they needed 200 men to make the case.

Instead as is noted in this article, it is all speculation and allegations.

Read this:

“Restriction of movement is a classic page from traffickers' playbook. IF the women working in the massage parlor were not allowed to leave the premises — and IF when they left they were accompanied and/or monitored — then this might be a trafficking case," she said. "IF we learn that their passports were taken, then we are looking at trafficking."

Brennan also made clear that the sex work itself is not a calling card of human trafficking, but rather it's the lack of autonomy.”


IF IF IF IF IF IF

[Bucco]

Since I am just getting into the subject of Human Trafficking and have a whole lot to learn admittedly, not just a guy going to a prostitute for a fling.

The first question that comes to mind is how did these people who are held hostage get into our country in the first place? What they are going thru is cruel. Can it be stopped? Can it be slowed down? Won't the operation just move to another spot? Like I said I don't know but it will be interesting to learn. I think the majority of men I know play their game on their own home field not an away game like this seems to be. If it's all true it's terrible. Insane if you ask me! :ohdear:

I gave links to a few government agencies and tried to stay away from opinion type. I have linked a few but here are more...

Global Report on Trafficking in Persons (https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/global-report-on-trafficking-in-persons.html)

Human Trafficking: The Myths and the Realities (https://www.themuse.com/advice/human-trafficking-the-myths-and-the-realities)

Personally, and with minor knowledge, enforcing existing laws the require certain EMPLOYER actions when hiring would help but it goes much deeper I am afraid and the entire subject is pretty much ignored.

[Bucco]

Yes, he could have explained what the charges were against the women who operated the SPA and the women who allegedly sold their bodies for cash were.
And why they needed 20” men to make the case.
Instead as is noted in this article, it is all speculation and allegations.

Read this:

“Restriction of movement is a classic page from traffickers' playbook. If the women working in the massage parlor were not allowed to leave the premises — and if when they left they were accompanied and/or monitored — then this might be a trafficking case," she said. "If we learn that their passports were taken, then we are looking at trafficking."

Brennan also made clear that the sex work itself is not a calling card of human trafficking, but rather it's the lack of autonomy.”


IF IF IF IF IF IF

You should contact the various law enforcement agencies in Florida and tell them how they botched this months old investigation and how your ideas are better.

[Nucky]

This is from your link

“USA Today reports Kraft was one of “at least 100 men” involved in the “human trafficking ring."

Did you read it?

I read most of them but the question is where has it been PROVEN?

Let me ask you both. What do you think this very moment as things sit now what will be the outcome for 1) The People Who Are Being Held, Hostage? 2) Mr. Kraft? 3) The others who were caught?

What do you think the outcome will be after court for all the listed above?

[Bucco]

I read most of them but the question is where has it been PROVEN?

Let me ask you both. What do you think this very moment as things sit now what will be the outcome for 1) The People Who Are Being Held, Hostage? 2) Mr. Kraft? 3) The others who were caught?

What do you think the outcome will be after court for all the listed above?

Those men who were caught up in this, Kraft and such, committed a misdemeanor and will be fined....they would not even have to go to court if they lived in the same county (simply get a letter and pay the fine like traffic ticket).

Those who are running the deal are charged with felonies.."The penalties for human trafficking are severe. A conviction for holding a person in peonage carries potential fines and a maximum prison term of 20 years. If a death results or the violation included kidnapping, sexual abuse, or other aggravating factors, the maximum punishment increases to life imprisonment.

Sex trafficking of children, or by fraud, force, or coercion carry enhanced penalties. Prison sentences for these offenses carry a potential life sentence and a minimum of 10 years in prison (or more, depending on the details of the offense and the victim).
The law also prohibits and punishes attempts and conspiracies relating to human trafficking. It orders the forfeit of any property used in violation of the law as well as any proceeds from the act. The law includes clauses for the mandatory payment of restitution to the victim for the full amount of their losses, as determined by the court.



Human Trafficking and Slavery - FindLaw (https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/human-trafficking-and-slavery.html)

Bottom line as I said or someone else said....Kraft is one of many "rich white man" with power attorneys so who knows

[Bucco]

I read most of them but the question is where has it been PROVEN?

Let me ask you both. What do you think this very moment as things sit now what will be the outcome for 1) The People Who Are Being Held, Hostage? 2) Mr. Kraft? 3) The others who were caught?

What do you think the outcome will be after court for all the listed above?

Bottom line is simply embarrasment for all......police say they are on video so if they want that played, fight the fine

[Nucky]

You should contact the various law enforcement agencies in Florida and tell them how they botched this months old investigation and how your ideas are better.

Holy Crow, they let it go on for months when they had proof after one week? Of course, I support the Police. Why did it go on for so long when people were being trafficked?

I don't like seeing anyone get hurt on either side or on here. I just hope things work out for the people held against their will and the accused get their day in court and no I didn't read every single attachment cause it all boils down to what happens in court.

This seems simple to me why is it getting so complicated. How do we really know the facts that we attach to our post are in fact facts? Wheres the proof? After court, we will know.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

First of all, Mr Kraft has not been arrested. It has been alleged that he participated in a misdemeanor. Which if he is found guilty requires that he pay a fine.

The police say that they have video of him and several other high profile people engaging in sex acts. The police have often said things that have later turned out to be untrue.

If they do indeed have evidence against Mr Kraft and several other high profile people, why is it that Mr Kraft's name is the only one that has been released.

It's also been reported that the Jupiter police have waited several months before busting this place. Why would they let that kind of activity go on for that long? Why would they knowingly allow forced prostitution and human trafficking continue in their town for months?

Something doesn't seem right about this.

Nothing about outward appearance of The Orchids of Asia Day Spa in Jupiter would suggest that they are a legitimate operation. Nothing in their advertising or website indicates that there is anything funny going on there.

One of the services listed is massage. It's entirely likely that a 77 year old man with a lot of money might enjoy a massage on a regular basis.

It's entirely possible that Mr Kraft visited the spa for a perfectly legal massage and got caught up in something. His attorneys state that he did nothing illegal.

If the police do have video of Mr Kraft participating in a sex act, it will be shown to the courts and to Mr Krafts attorneys. Until then, I think that we should all keep our opinions to ourselves.

[villagerjack]

I said that many times....listed those rich guys in addition to Kraft who were caught up in it.....SO FAR.

You are so hung up on Kraft, you simply refuse to learn anything or learn how to put things in the proper prospective.

It says Kraft was “involved in Human Trafickking Ring “

HE WAS NOT

Please clear up the link you sent and correct your aggregious post.

[Bucco]

Holy Crow, they let it go on for months when they had proof after one week? Of course, I support the Police. Why did it go on for so long when people were being trafficked?

I don't like seeing anyone get hurt on either side or on here. I just hope things work out for the people held against their will and the accused get their day in court and no I didn't read every single attachment cause it all boils down to what happens in court.

This seems simple to me why is it getting so complicated. How do we really know the facts that we attach to our post are in fact facts? Wheres the proof? After court, we will know.

One more time and then I give up.

The stumbling around to defend Kraft, and it appears only him. As I mentioned, more than him were cited.

The police spent months satisfying the law to be able to outfit the spa with cameras. They also, prior to that, stopped customers and many of them gave the police information as to what the place was about. Then, police went in with cameras. ALL done to satisfy the strict laws allowing police to use the cameras etc.

[Bucco]

It says Kraft was “involved in Human Trafickking Ring “

HE WAS NOT

Please clear up the link you sent and correct your aggregious post.

I said he "enabled" human trafficking.

Why such violent defense of Kraft. Nobody even mentions the other rich guys. What is it about Kraft that inspires such love and protective action.

Hell, in the last few years, I have seen folks publicly excoriated with ZERO evidence or facts.

[Kenswing]

One more time and then I give up.

The stumbling around to defend Kraft, and it appears only him. As I mentioned, more than him were cited.

The police spent months satisfying the law to be able to outfit the spa with cameras. They also, prior to that, stopped customers and many of them gave the police information as to what the place was about. Then, police went in with cameras. ALL done to satisfy the strict laws allowing police to use the cameras etc.

Great idea in theory..

[Bucco]

Great idea in theory..

Yeah, you are right and correct.

I really meant it until simply browsing I saw a post from someone who chronically uses this forum as a playground and thus I just had to respond. A bad habit, which I think you pointed out to me, but I believe truth is truth and everyone on this forum, and in life, should call out folks spouting crap, and it is crap by insinuation or outright lies.

If you or yours wish to criticize me for that, so be it.

If you care more about defending someone because of whatever, than complimenting our law enforcement for protecting people and stopping illegal activities, that's on you ( collective you, not personal aimed)

[Kenswing]

Yeah, you are right and correct.

I really meant it until simply browsing I saw a post from someone who chronically uses this forum as a playground and thus I just had to respond. A bad habit, which I think you pointed out to me, but I believe truth is truth and everyone on this forum, and in life, should call out folks spouting crap, and it is crap by insinuation or outright lies.

If you or yours wish to criticize me for that, so be it.

If you care more about defending someone because of whatever, than complimenting our law enforcement for protecting people and stopping illegal activities, that's on you ( collective you, not personal aimed)
Show me where I defended ANYONE. I did make a post warning not to jump to conclusions based on other recent events. But nowhere did I defend anyone.

I'm just surprised that you continue to pontificate knowing you're not going to change the views of anyone.. You're going down the road of obsessiveness with almost 1/3 of the total posts in this thread. For your own mental wellbeing you might want to step back for awhile.

[Bucco]

Show me where I defended ANYONE. I did make a post warning not to jump to conclusions based on other recent events. But nowhere did I defend anyone.

I'm just surprised that you continue to pontificate knowing you're not going to change the views of anyone.. You're going down the road of obsessiveness with almost 1/3 of the total posts in this thread. For your own mental wellbeing you might want to step back for awhile.

Boy they are all out for me now.

Did you not read when I said....."collective you, not personal" ?

[Bucco]

Show me where I defended ANYONE. I did make a post warning not to jump to conclusions based on other recent events. But nowhere did I defend anyone.

I'm just surprised that you continue to pontificate knowing you're not going to change the views of anyone.. You're going down the road of obsessiveness with almost 1/3 of the total posts in this thread. For your own mental wellbeing you might want to step back for awhile.

I am passionate, but you are also, especially along with another, how often I post (much less than you or her). I think a forum serves little purpose if we do not express our views and point out, WITH REFERNCE) where you feel they fall short.

This is become the story on here with any serious subject....keep lying and making things up and then attack those who want to keep it straight.

Sorry to bother you with a serious subject for discussion, truth or passion.

I note that always brings out the same posters to go at me.

[Bucco]

Show me where I defended ANYONE. I did make a post warning not to jump to conclusions based on other recent events. But nowhere did I defend anyone.

I'm just surprised that you continue to pontificate knowing you're not going to change the views of anyone.. You're going down the road of obsessiveness with almost 1/3 of the total posts in this thread. For your own mental wellbeing you might want to step back for awhile.

Again, did you not see where I clarified....." a collective you, and not personal" ?

Or simply choose to ignore ?

[Rapscallion St Croix]

This sub-forum is NFL Football. The alleged misdemeanor by Kraft is the only element of the story that is even remotely related to NFL Football. Surely there is another forum better suited for crusades.

[Kenswing]

I am passionate, but you are also, especially along with another, how often I post (much less than you or her). I think a forum serves little purpose if we do not express our views and point out, WITH REFERNCE) where you feel they fall short.

This is become the story on here with any serious subject....keep lying and making things up and then attack those who want to keep it straight.

Sorry to bother you with a serious subject for discussion, truth or passion.

I note that always brings out the same posters to go at me.
Who exactly is it that I'm allegedly aligned with? Do you honestly believe there is a concerted effort to shout you down?

I understand you are passionate about many things. But stating your case ad nauseum isn't going to change anyone's mind.

This thread started with the subject of Robert Kraft's arrest. You turned it into a crusade about Human Trafficking. You've made your point. I guess you have the right to keep making it if you want.

[villagerjack]

If all this is True it is a case of WOMEN abusing other WOMEN. But that does not read well or sell newspapers so the headline reads that 200 not 20, 200 MEN were caught in a thus unproven Sex Traficking INVESTIGATION sting wherein they went in for a massage and may have received something extra. If o So the MEN who paid the WOMEN who were not forced into anything (No Rape charges) are the real culprits? They are exposed not the WOMEN?. This is another example of disgraceful journalism. To add fuel to the fire the man caught was a friend of the President. THE HEADLINE SHOULD HAVE BEEN:

“TWO WOMEN WERE ARRESTED FOR RUNNING A MASSAGE PARLOUR IN WHICH OTHER WOMEN VOLUNTARILY SOLD THEIR THEIR BODIES FOR CASH. POLICE SUSPECT THAT THE WOMEN OWNERS MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN A SEX TRAFFICKING OF OTHER WOMEN BUT SO FAR HAVE NO PROOF AND NO CHARGES OF RUNNING A SEX TRAFICKING OPERATION HAVE BEEN FILED. Men involved in visiting the Massage Parlour May have to pay a fine for the Misdemeanor they allegrdly committed but so far this has not yet happened and it is noted that some of the men are denying the charges. At this time no names will be released as the case is still under investigation. “

Instead we get: “THE MONSTERS ARE THE MEN”...from The NY Times. No mention that WOMEN ran the place.

Kraft and the other white Millionaire were not charged with anything and both deny it. No matter, their reputations are sullied since the headlinesnever leave the Internet. No one noted that in 2015, Bob Kraft has given over $100,000 of his hard earned money to an organization that fights Sex Trafficking.

[Kenswing]

Again, did you not see where I clarified....." a collective you, and not personal" ?

Or simply choose to ignore ?
Not ignoring. I guess I didn't read close enough. I apologize.

[ColdNoMore]

Not ignoring. I guess I didn't read close enough. I apologize.

Classy. :thumbup:

[manaboutown]

I said he "enabled" human trafficking.

Allowing human traffickers to bring people they use into the country constitutes enabling. Enable | Definition of Enable by Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enable)

Kraft was possibly merely a customer, if that. He did not enable human trafficking.

[redwitch]

Let’s face it, the only reason the trafficking case became public interest was the names of some caught in the sting. If not for Kraft, et al., it would have been a very local story. Personally, I’m glad this has gotten national attention. More people need to understand just what these women are forced to do. They are not the hookers who made a conscious decision to sell their bodies for drugs, money, food or whatever. These are women who were given no alternatives.

So far, the police have alleged that the victims were brought to America under false pretenses, their passports were withheld from them, they were poorly fed, severely abused and FORCED to have sex with men willing to pay for theses services. If you knowingly pay for the services of someone forced into a role against that person’s wishes, you are, in my book, as guilty as the person forcing them into that role. It might be worth making sure someone wants to have sex with you before you pay them. It is not a choice for many.

I don’t know if Kraft knew the girls/women were forced into their roles, but he is PROBABLY guilty as charged of solicitation. We shall see.

In the meantime, kudos to the police force for doing their job and doing it well. It will be difficult for those operating the massage parlor to claim sex did not happen given the amount of videos. Cases like this need a lot of evidence. A week or two doesn’t cut it — too easy to lay the blame on one manager that way. 200+ instances with video done at different times with different women/customers paints a very graphic picture.

[ColdNoMore]

Let’s face it, the only reason the trafficking case became public interest was the names of some caught in the sting. If not for Kraft, et al., it would have been a very local story. Personally, I’m glad this has gotten national attention. More people need to understand just what these women are forced to do. They are not the hookers who made a conscious decision to sell their bodies for drugs, money, food or whatever. These are women who were given no alternatives.

So far, the police have alleged that the victims were brought to America under false pretenses, their passports were withheld from them, they were poorly fed, severely abused and FORCED to have sex with men willing to pay for theses services. If you knowingly pay for the services of someone forced into a role against that person’s wishes, you are, in my book, as guilty as the person forcing them into that role. It might be worth making sure someone wants to have sex with you before you pay them. It is not a choice for many.

I don’t know if Kraft knew the girls/women were forced into their roles, but he is PROBABLY guilty as charged of solicitation. We shall see.

In the meantime, kudos to the police force for doing their job and doing it well. It will be difficult for those operating the massage parlor to claim sex did not happen given the amount of videos. Cases like this need a lot of evidence.

:bigbow:



A week or two doesn’t cut it — too easy to lay the blame on one manager that way. 200+ instances with video done at different times with different women/customers paints a very graphic picture.

EXACTLY!! :boom:


It gives the police the time and opportunity to root out...as many scumbags involved as possible.

[manaboutown]

Frankly, with his means I wonder why Kraft didn't hop into a private jet for a quick trip to Costa Rica where prostitution is legal. Prostitution in Costa Rica - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Costa_Rica)

Many ticos speak English as well as of course Spanish, especially in Gringo Gulch.

[Bucco]

Who exactly is it that I'm allegedly aligned with? Do you honestly believe there is a concerted effort to shout you down?

I understand you are passionate about many things. But stating your case ad nauseum isn't going to change anyone's mind.

This thread started with the subject of Robert Kraft's arrest. You turned it into a crusade about Human Trafficking. You've made your point. I guess you have the right to keep making it if you want.

First of all, I accept your apologies in post

Now, I never posed here until post #23, where I said in general that we did need to wait for more information...THEN the posts started about Smollet and how sorry they felt for this man.

I asked why and got a stream of criticisms of the girls, why not legit prostitution and this is NOT about prostitution and the bigger picture of human smuggling was lost.

Hard for me to hold my tongue at that point because this is a serious problem not only in our country but throughout the world. Posters were all over the place and I attempted to deal with facts and gave links, which were obviously ignored.

Then it was turned into a P discussion, probably my fault. I simply alluded to the Jeff Epstein case which recently re entered the news, and I never thought with all the links and posts I made about the human trafficking, the links to statistics who try and show the problem beyond Kraft getting....whatever he got, and suddenly I am accused of having "contempt" for Robert Kraft and in that post we had to mention "red hats". Me, who has steadfast defended the legal position of Kraft and not once mentioned him personally have "CONTEMPT" for him......it hit me...this poster and others jumping on my case for subjects not covered in this thread, are going to make this a P discussion which it is not nor intended to be.

iT SHOULD be about Human Trafficking.....but it turned into a pity party for Kraft and a harrangue about words used....no pictures of the girls....it was the girls fault. I posted links to show that was BS because, and I know this sounds preachy, BUT I believe in TRUTH AND MORALS.

I forward that no matter how I ended it and that was shown a number of times, it was going to be pity Kraft....bad judicial, etc.

This forum is composed of adults, old enough to discuss serious issues, at least I thought so.

I did not mean to say you were conspiring in any way at all, although there is a "cult" behavior on here.......just noticed that correcting untruths became wrong somehow.

[ColdNoMore]

Snip...> BUT I believe in TRUTH AND MORALS...<Snip

Things that don't seem to be very popular these days...by some folks. :ohdear:

[graciegirl]

STep back. Watch out for your shoes.

[tophcfa]

Where is a moderator when you need one? This thread is overdue to be closed.

[Bucco]

Where is a moderator when you need one? This thread is overdue to be closed.

I agree.

Now we are aware it was hijacked for P reasons, which I didn't realize until too late.

A topic like the trafficking of human beings turned into a defense case for some instead of caring about the victims.

It is sad, but not surprised.

[Moderator]

Several posts have been deleted as directed at member and/or politically slanted. Please discuss the original topic without directing posts at another member and avoid inserting political comments. If such posts continue, the thread will be closed.

Moderator

[villagerjack]

To solve any problem it has to be correctly defined. Once the Politicians and the Sensational Press get hold of a story, it becomes convoluted.so every Whorehouse is now a Sex Trafficking operation. Every Pimp is a Sex Trafficker. There is no such thing as a women selling her body for cash as a profession. “Men are the Monsters” as The NY Times noted yesterday. Let’s arrest every man who patronizes these Operations and publish their names. By no means should the women selling their bodies for cash be named or charged. Just the men. That should do it. Problem solved. Or maybe we could all take a page out of Bob Krafts book and donate to organizations that help real victims of actual sex traffickers. He gave $100,000 which was just part of the $1.6 million the New England Patriots Charitable foundation gave to various charities related to domestic violence and sexual exploitation. Or if it makes you fell better you can incessantly post on TOTV and claim that you seem to be the only one that cares about the issue of Sex Trafficking. That will do it.

[Chi-Town]

Let’s face it, the only reason the trafficking case became public interest was the names of some caught in the sting. If not for Kraft, et al., it would have been a very local story. Personally, I’m glad this has gotten national attention. More people need to understand just what these women are forced to do. They are not the hookers who made a conscious decision to sell their bodies for drugs, money, food or whatever. These are women who were given no alternatives.

So far, the police have alleged that the victims were brought to America under false pretenses, their passports were withheld from them, they were poorly fed, severely abused and FORCED to have sex with men willing to pay for theses services. If you knowingly pay for the services of someone forced into a role against that person’s wishes, you are, in my book, as guilty as the person forcing them into that role. It might be worth making sure someone wants to have sex with you before you pay them. It is not a choice for many.

I don’t know if Kraft knew the girls/women were forced into their roles, but he is PROBABLY guilty as charged of solicitation. We shall see.

In the meantime, kudos to the police force for doing their job and doing it well. It will be difficult for those operating the massage parlor to claim sex did not happen given the amount of videos. Cases like this need a lot of evidence. A week or two doesn’t cut it — too easy to lay the blame on one manager that way. 200+ instances with video done at different times with different women/customers paints a very graphic picture.Well said. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[ColdNoMore]

Or we can incessantly defend those who make human trafficking (for sex and domestic work)...possible and profitable.

Just as we prefer to ignore, those who do the hiring of undocumented workers...to increase profits.

Throw those who are willing to pay, therefore creating the 'market' in the first place, in jail...and watch how quickly the problem is dramatically reduced.

It really is THAT simple. :ohdear:

[redwitch]

Let’s arrest every man who patronizes these Operations and publish their names. By no means should the women selling their bodies for cash be named or charged. Just the men. That should do it. Problem solved.

Police have over 200 videos of men having sex with these women. Nowhere have I seen list of the names of every man arrested in any news report. (Easy to find — arrest records are public records.) I have heard the names or at least job descriptions of six of the men. They are all considered prominent men of their communities. The women having sex with these men are not prominent members of any community nor, apparently, are the other 194+ plus men who are not mentioned. Kraft and his lesser known brethren are newsworthy, no one else arrested really is, except the individuals who ran the whole operation. Why would non-prominent names be listed? Because it’s not fair to the ones named?

As to what has been donated to charitable organizations, absolutely irrelevant. The fact is Krafts, et al., were caught on tape soliciting sex from women for money.

Is every prostitute a sex slave? NO. Some really do it by choice. Is every massage parlor a cheap whore house? Probably not but the vast majority seem to be. Is every woman who works at a massage parlor a victim? Probably not but I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority are. Most that work the parlors are of Asian descent, many brought here illegally. Some are more like indentured servants — pay your debt and you can go on your way. However, paying the debt of being smuggled to America is not an easy feat at less than minimum wage. This is not something new. This is common knowledge to most of us. Krafts had to have an idea of what went on, especially if he believed in human trafficking enough to donate to organizations fighting it. He is not innocent. At the very least, he helped enable the trafficking trade. To me, he is as culpable as the women who ran this massage parlor.

[PennBF]

We lived for many years between Palm Beach and Vero Beach with upiter just 4 smiles south. The mansions are many there including Tiger Woods, etc. There is no shortage of money. Also not mentioned is about 6-7miles south of Vero Beach was a Nudist Colony on Hutchenson Island. It is called "The Treasurer Coast" because over the years a number of Treasurer Ships sunk and were discovered there. If anyone has been to The Palm Beach Gardens you have a great understanding of the wealth that exists in this area. Havng said all of this it is probable that the wealthy residents (E.G. Kraft, et al). are in belief they can do what they want and their attorney's will protect them. As they will. :ho:

[OhioBuckeye]

NE Pats owner Robert Kraft arrested in Jupiter Fla in prostitution sting. Asian massage "spa" that had been shut down recently for 7 months for trafficking women in from China.

Kraft saying he didn't do it.

Well, the police must of just pick him up for doing nothing because they had nothing else to do. But I guess I didn't expect him to admit it until proven guilty. Why was he picked up if he deny's it then?

[JimJohnson]

Men have been lieing and having extra marital affairs since the beginning of time. It is only being openly accepted in the last few years. As our religious leaders have told us, No one is perfect.

[villagerjack]

Wow! A lot there. Unfortunately all either inaccurate or shear speculation. The names of all the men but no women were published. Seems unfair but expected from the press who have a disdain for successful white men, if not all white men. The NY TIMES Headline was MEN ARE THE MONSTERS” No such comments about the women who started and ran the business. According to one article, the men were stopped for a “traffic violation” when they left the Massage Parlour and instead were interrogated without an attorney about what happened inside. None of the women who worked there suffered a similar treatment. That could be a problem for them in some of these cases. Kraft and the prominent others deny it but he is convicted already on TOTV. “ They have tapes ....Kraft is probably guilty...most women in whore houses are sex trafficked” ..BUT no one saw the tapes (The Press told us Jim Comey had tapes but they lied) ..and because they had tapes which no one saw, he is PROBABLY guilty and the Massage Parlours are not the source of most of the billions made by women selling their bodies for sex, it’s the Porn industry where most of the women who keep that industry going do it voluntarily for the money and are not sex trafficked. But that will not make headlines nor portray women as victims and men as monsters.

Point is that if this was indeed a sex trafficking case, why do the police even need the men on tape having sex with women when all it would prove is that they had sex with women. They could use undercover cops for that. None of the men appear to be involved with the yet unproven charge of sex trafficking. This was another disgraceful political hit piece and will probably go nowhere as far as the sex trafficking end of it. But no matter, the job has been done. Men’s names and reputations are sullied while women remain anonymous victims.When Law Enforcement cannot build a case because the women sex workers deny they were trafficked, the mantra will then be that the women were too afraid of what the men will do to them if they testify.

Young and old mothers should be terrified of what could happen to their sons.

[airstreamingypsy]

NE Pats owner Robert Kraft arrested in Jupiter Fla in prostitution sting. Asian massage "spa" that had been shut down recently for 7 months for trafficking women in from China.

Kraft saying he didn't do it.

Police say they have him on video, doing it. :a040:

[JimJohnson]

Any man or woman that commits adultery should be considered to have less than moral character and should not be allowed to be in positions that could influence our children.

[Bucco]

Wow! A lot there. Unfortunately all either inaccurate or shear speculation. The names of all the men but no women were published. Seems unfair but expected from the press who have a disdain for successful white men, if not all white men. The NY TIMES Headline was MEN ARE THE MONSTERS” No such comments about the women who started and ran the business. According to one article, the men were stopped for a “traffic violation” when they left the Massage Parlour and instead were interrogated without an attorney about what happened inside. None of the women who worked there suffered a similar treatment. That could be a problem for them in some of these cases. Kraft and the prominent others deny it but he is convicted already on TOTV. “ They have tapes ....Kraft is probably guilty...most women in whore houses are sex trafficked” ..BUT no one saw the tapes (The Press told us Jim Comey had tapes but they lied) ..and because they had tapes which no one saw, he is PROBABLY guilty and the Massage Parlours are not the source of most of the billions made by women selling their bodies for sex, it’s the Porn industry where most of the women who keep that industry going do it voluntarily for the money and are not sex trafficked. But that will not make headlines nor portray women as victims and men as monsters.

Point is that if this was indeed a sex trafficking case, why do the police even need the men on tape having sex with women when all it would prove is that they had sex with women. They could use undercover cops for that. None of the men appear to be involved with the yet unproven charge of sex trafficking. This was another disgraceful political hit piece and will probably go nowhere as far as the sex trafficking end of it. But no matter, the job has been done. Men’s names and reputations are sullied while women remain anonymous victims.When Law Enforcement cannot build a case because the women sex workers deny they were trafficked, the mantra will then be that the women were too afraid of what the men will do to them if they testify.

Young and old mothers should be terrified of what could happen to their sons.

You continually say the same thing.

I posted PICTURES and NAMES of those running the operation, and you gotta read more.........the world is aware and you simply shut out any facts and hold onto your fantasy.

Why is bad to publish the names of JOHNS in any case, especially this one ? Law enforcement will tell you if you wish to stop prostitution or human trafficking publish the USERS names...that usually gives them pause.


Reading your post, I might suggest you change or at least add to whatever your source of news is, because you are in fantasy land in most of what you say and are grounded and based on nothing but P talk. (and basing your belief system on P of any stripe is very suspect and is reminiscent of cults)

[villagerjack]

Any man or woman that commits adultery should be considered to have less than moral character and should not be allowed to be in positions that could influence our children.

What about women without whom Adultrty is not possible? Mr Kraftwas not married. His wife died.

[villagerjack]

Police say they have him on video, doing it. :a040:

Doing what ? Sex Trafficking ? Did you see the video ?

[ColdNoMore]

Wow! A lot there. Unfortunately all either inaccurate or shear speculation. The names of all the men but no women were published. Seems unfair but expected from the press who have a disdain for successful white men, if not all white men. The NY TIMES Headline was MEN ARE THE MONSTERS” No such comments about the women who started and ran the business. According to one article, the men were stopped for a “traffic violation” when they left the Massage Parlour and instead were interrogated without an attorney about what happened inside. None of the women who worked there suffered a similar treatment. That could be a problem for them in some of these cases. Kraft and the prominent others deny it but he is convicted already on TOTV. “ They have tapes ....Kraft is probably guilty...most women in whore houses are sex trafficked” ..BUT no one saw the tapes (The Press told us Jim Comey had tapes but they lied) ..and because they had tapes which no one saw, he is PROBABLY guilty and the Massage Parlours are not the source of most of the billions made by women selling their bodies for sex, it’s the Porn industry where most of the women who keep that industry going do it voluntarily for the money and are not sex trafficked. But that will not make headlines nor portray women as victims and men as monsters.

Point is that if this was indeed a sex trafficking case, why do the police even need the men on tape having sex with women when all it would prove is that they had sex with women. They could use undercover cops for that. None of the men appear to be involved with the yet unproven charge of sex trafficking. This was another disgraceful political hit piece and will probably go nowhere as far as the sex trafficking end of it. But no matter, the job has been done. Men’s names and reputations are sullied while women remain anonymous victims.When Law Enforcement cannot build a case because the women sex workers deny they were trafficked, the mantra will then be that the women were too afraid of what the men will do to them if they testify.

Young and old mothers should be terrified of what could happen to their sons.

WOW...is right. :oops:

Seriously, you really want to go there?

It does explain a lot though. :ohdear:

[JimJohnson]

What about women without whom Adultrty is not possible? Mr Kraftwas not married. His wife died.

In my post “Any man or woman that commits adultery”.

Sorry, I should have typed that part louder.

[Bucco]

WOW...is right. :oops:

Seriously, you really want to go there?

It does explain a lot though. :ohdear:

It does....a lot.

A belief system based on hate and P is not a good mix at all. It will take over your soul and total being. As I said, like a cult, but worse because it becomes incurable and suddenly you are not the person you thought you were.

[Kenswing]

Or we can incessantly defend those who make human trafficking (for sex and domestic work)...possible and profitable.

Just as we prefer to ignore, those who do the hiring of undocumented workers...to increase profits.

Throw those who are willing to pay, therefore creating the 'market' in the first place, in jail...and watch how quickly the problem is dramatically reduced.

It really is THAT simple. :ohdear:
I agree that the people that provide the demand should be punished but the people that provide the supply should be the focus. The demand will always be there unless the supply is cut off. Just look at the drug trade as an example. You can throw as many addicts in jail as you want but the dealers/suppliers always find new customers. Sex, like drugs is an addiction to some people. There will always be a demand.

[Bucco]

I agree that the people that provide the demand should be punished but the people that provide the supply should be the focus. The demand will always be there unless the supply is cut off. Just look at the drug trade as an example. You can throw as many addicts in jail as you want but the dealers/suppliers always find new customers. Sex, like drugs is an addiction to some people. There will always be a demand.

It appears that was the idea behind this investigation.

NO "users" in this situation face jail, but the felony charges against those in charge and the publicity to the "users" will at minimum damper the industry in these counties.

Good police work on this one

[Madelaine Amee]

Sex, like drugs is an addiction to some people. There will always be a demand.

Gxd I hope sex will always be "there". what a miserable world this would be without sex and love and companionship and hope.

Throughout time there have been enough religious groups trying to make sex dirty and punishable and it has not worked yet. However, one feels, a world without sex would come to an end rather quickly because, other than the petri pot, there is no other way to perpetuate mankind. Come to think of it, even the petri pot needs the act of sex. :icon_wink:

[Bucco]

Gxd I hope sex will always be "there". what a miserable world this would be without sex and love and companionship and hope.

Throughout time there have been enough religious groups trying to make sex dirty and punishable and it has not worked yet. However, one feels, a world without sex would come to an end rather quickly because, other than the petri pot, there is no other way to perpetuate mankind. Come to think of it, even the petri pot needs the act of sex. :icon_wink:

WOW, talk about changing the subject....BIG TIME

[Kenswing]

Gxd I hope sex will always be "there". what a miserable world this would be without sex and love and companionship and hope.

Throughout time there have been enough religious groups trying to make sex dirty and punishable and it has not worked yet. However, one feels, a world without sex would come to an end rather quickly because, other than the petri pot, there is no other way to perpetuate mankind. Come to think of it, even the petri pot needs the act of sex. :icon_wink:
:1rotfl: Just a little out of context.. The post was about the demand to pay for SEX. Not the act of love making..

To some, sex has NOTHING to do with love. It can be about power. I can be about simple self gratification. Sex can be dirty. It's the intent behind the act that determines what it is. Not everyone has sex to procreate.

[Madelaine Amee]

WOW, talk about changing the subject....BIG TIME

You guys can go back to pontificating any time you feel like it .... carry on!

[fw102807]

You guys can go back to pontificating any time you feel like it .... carry on!

Pontificating...I like that

[Bayco]

You are so naive it is scary !!!!! I MEAN really scary

Yes it is.

[villagerjack]

wow...is right. :oops:

Seriously, you really want to go there?

It does explain a lot though. :ohdear:

ny times...”men are the monsters”

[redwitch]

ny times...”men are the monsters”

Maybe you should read The NY Times article. It is a quote by Sheriff Snyder and the title is not “Men Are the Monsters” but rather “‘The Monsters Are the Men’: Inside a Thriving Sex Trafficking Trade in Florida”. If you’re going to quote something, at least make the effort to quote it correctly, especially if you’re going to do it repeatedly.

[Bucco]

You guys can go back to pontificating any time you feel like it .... carry on!

Pontificating....the subject of the thread was HUMAN TRAFFICKING OF WOMEN AND THEIR SLAVERY AND USE AS OBJECT WHILE HELD PRISONER SO THEIR CAPTIVES CAN MAKE MONEY AT THEIR EXPENSE.

Sex itself, or making love whatever is not even remotely close to what is happening here nor the subject matter.

If clarifying that is "pontificating" I am guilty

[JimJohnson]

Maybe you should read The NY Times article. It is a quote by Sheriff Snyder and the title is not “Men Are the Monsters” but rather “‘The Monsters Are the Men’: Inside a Thriving Sex Trafficking Trade in Florida”. If you’re going to quote something, at least make the effort to quote it correctly, especially if you’re going to do it repeatedly.

Men are 100% responsible for sex crimes. Sorry guys, just keeping it real.

[Bucco]

Maybe you should read The NY Times article. It is a quote by Sheriff Snyder and the title is not “Men Are the Monsters” but rather “‘The Monsters Are the Men’: Inside a Thriving Sex Trafficking Trade in Florida”. If you’re going to quote something, at least make the effort to quote it correctly, especially if you’re going to do it repeatedly.

I you are going to require certain groups to be honest, and quote honestly, you will really dramatically reduce the posters.

Incredible how they VERBALLY ATTACK THE TIMES.......but if necessary go to the TIMES AND THEN MISQUOTE THEM.

I was told way back on here to link if you need to quote so that everything is validated and in context

[Bucco]

ny times...”men are the monsters”

Here you go....take the time to read the article from which you copied and pasted a headline...

‘The Monsters Are the Men’: Inside a Thriving Sex Trafficking Trade in Florida - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/us/robert-kraft-trafficking-florida.html)

[Bucco]

Just hope this puts the pressure on to reopen the Jeff Epstein case because it involved CHILDREN

[Moderator]

This thread has degenerated into a squabble between two points of view with neither side engaging in more than finger pointing. The thread is closed.

Moderator