Executive Courses

[ccrrjanis]

Attention The Villages Executive Course Golfers -- it seems like The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has lost control of the Executive Courses South of CR 466. These Courses are in need of major repair and they should be closed for repair.

The poor condition of the Executive Courses is the result of poor and/or lack the of maintenance by The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department. The Villages Executive Golf Courses are so bad that most of the Golfers that play them have gone to a two putt maximum when playing.

As an example of the poor maintenance of the Golf Courses, Pelican was a challenging course that many Golfers looked forward to playing. However, the Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has totally destroyed the course by clearing out almost every environmental hazardous area which has totally destroyed the appeal of the course.

Also, when a Golfer encounters most of the Golf Course Maintenance Department personnel on any course the maintenance personnel seem to have no idea about the game of Golf by either standing in the Golfers way and/or watering as the Golfer attempts to play.

There are many other examples that could be put to print regarding the poor and/or lack of maintenance of The Villages Executive Courses; however, in the interest of time may we suggest that if The Villages Course Maintenance Department cannot maintain the Executive Courses we The Villages Golfers should discontinue paying The Villages Amenity fee that applies to the Executive Course Maintenance as well as any Trial Fees that may apply until this problem is corrected.

Make your voice be heard and make some noise -- all The Villages wants is our money and they provide little for the funds received to maintain the Executive Golf Courses.

[alwann]

I wish a boycott would work but doubt a significant number of golfers would participate. You know, local golf clubs can establish rules in addition to the USGA Rules fo Golf. For example, The Villages can tell me how to dress, then it ought to be able to require the pin to be pulled during the high season. I played Red Trash, sorry, Fish, today with it's lovely painted greens, and nearly every hole had damage from people using ball pickers. What other controls might The Villages introduce to protect the courses? If they cared. But they probably don't. As I posted before, the new marketing slogan should be "Play Free Golf For Life, but you might hate it."

[Mortal1]

winter, very little rain, over playing the courses...every winter we hear the same gripes...every summer they come back and are in superb condition in august/september/october....cutting back the brush doesn't make pelican any easier except that you can see your target. Anyone who feels otherwise is sadly mistaken. You want outstanding playing conditions all the time...join a private club at $25k/yr with a green fee of around $60.

It always helps to ignore most complainers due to their lack of facts...sometimes it's hard not to answer...

[Bogie Shooter]

Attention The Villages Executive Course Golfers -- it seems like The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has lost control of the Executive Courses South of CR 466. These Courses are in need of major repair and they should be closed for repair.

The poor condition of the Executive Courses is the result of poor and/or lack the of maintenance by The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department. The Villages Executive Golf Courses are so bad that most of the Golfers that play them have gone to a two putt maximum when playing.

As an example of the poor maintenance of the Golf Courses, Pelican was a challenging course that many Golfers looked forward to playing. However, the Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has totally destroyed the course by clearing out almost every environmental hazardous area which has totally destroyed the appeal of the course.

Also, when a Golfer encounters most of the Golf Course Maintenance Department personnel on any course the maintenance personnel seem to have no idea about the game of Golf by either standing in the Golfers way and/or watering as the Golfer attempts to play.

There are many other examples that could be put to print regarding the poor and/or lack of maintenance of The Villages Executive Courses; however, in the interest of time may we suggest that if The Villages Course Maintenance Department cannot maintain the Executive Courses we The Villages Golfers should discontinue paying The Villages Amenity fee that applies to the Executive Course Maintenance as well as any Trial Fees that may apply until this problem is corrected.

Make your voice be heard and make some noise -- all The Villages wants is our money and they provide little for the funds received to maintain the Executive Golf Courses.
You don’t say that you have met with any Executive Courses management, have you?

[sheena0904]

The first world problems on here kill me. You mean to tell me the free golf courses that hundreds of people play on a day are in rough shape?! Surprised this wasn’t the lead story on the news this evening.

[anothersteve]

winter, very little rain, over playing the courses...every winter we hear the same gripes...every summer they come back and are in superb condition in august/september/october....cutting back the brush doesn't make pelican any easier except that you can see your target. Anyone who feels otherwise is sadly mistaken. You want outstanding playing conditions all the time...join a private club at $25k/yr with a green fee of around $60.

It always helps to ignore most complainers due to their lack of facts...sometimes it's hard not to answer...

This in a nutshell.
Steve

[Buffalo Jim]

The first world problems on here kill me. You mean to tell me the free golf courses that hundreds of people play on a day are in rough shape?! Surprised this wasn’t the lead story on the news this evening.

Very Neighborly .

[billethkid]

winter, very little rain, over playing the courses...every winter we hear the same gripes...every summer they come back and are in superb condition in august/september/october....cutting back the brush doesn't make pelican any easier except that you can see your target. Anyone who feels otherwise is sadly mistaken. You want outstanding playing conditions all the time...join a private club at $25k/yr with a green fee of around $60.

It always helps to ignore most complainers due to their lack of facts...sometimes it's hard not to answer...

Some of us who have been around for more than 15 years have seen the deterioration.
We have had weather issues over the years....golf courses did not look like they do today.
We have had busy and busier seasons in recent years.....take a look at some public courses here or back home....heavy seasonal play....well maintained approaches and greens.

We are not complaining about having the course be comparable to private, high(er) greens fee clubs. We are comparing today with what used to be.

There is absolutely no doubt the courses are much, MUCH worse than previous years. Little or no doubt about the falling off of the amount and quality of maintenance.

And as a previous poster pointed out, the people who do work on the golf courses have almost no understanding of their role when there are players approaching......NONE! Which is also an indicator of failing/failed/don't give a crap management.

[karostay]

If it wasn't for executive golf what we all have come to enjoy and invest in our golden years wouldn't exist .
Free golf as free as it may seem has made the Villages grow into what it is today and the foreseeable future..
Cutting corners is taking it's toll and it shows

[karostay]

I'll be surprised if this thread isn't closed shortly

[sallybowron]

If it wasn't for executive golf what we all have come to enjoy and invest in our golden years wouldn't exist .
Free golf as free as it may seem has made the Villages grow into what it is today and the foreseeable future..
Cutting corners is taking it's toll and it shows

I agree but what can be done about it?

[sallybowron]

Attention The Villages Executive Course Golfers -- it seems like The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has lost control of the Executive Courses South of CR 466. These Courses are in need of major repair and they should be closed for repair.

The poor condition of the Executive Courses is the result of poor and/or lack the of maintenance by The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department. The Villages Executive Golf Courses are so bad that most of the Golfers that play them have gone to a two putt maximum when playing.

As an example of the poor maintenance of the Golf Courses, Pelican was a challenging course that many Golfers looked forward to playing. However, the Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has totally destroyed the course by clearing out almost every environmental hazardous area which has totally destroyed the appeal of the course.

Also, when a Golfer encounters most of the Golf Course Maintenance Department personnel on any course the maintenance personnel seem to have no idea about the game of Golf by either standing in the Golfers way and/or watering as the Golfer attempts to play.

There are many other examples that could be put to print regarding the poor and/or lack of maintenance of The Villages Executive Courses; however, in the interest of time may we suggest that if The Villages Course Maintenance Department cannot maintain the Executive Courses we The Villages Golfers should discontinue paying The Villages Amenity fee that applies to the Executive Course Maintenance as well as any Trial Fees that may apply until this problem is corrected.

Make your voice be heard and make some noise -- all The Villages wants is our money and they provide little for the funds received to maintain the Executive Golf Courses.

What are we to do can we really quit paying the amenity fee? How do we make our voices heard? I am willing but do not know how.

[VApeople]

We play the exec courses about twice a week, usually the courses south of 44 because they are not as busy. We are very pleased with their condition. The greens putt well, even if some of them are very fast with a lot of break. The sand traps have good sand in them, but occasionally I improve my lie because the other golfers do not rake their footprints very well. I fixed four ball marks on one green today.

I usually play the back tees and find the exec courses to be very challenging and very enjoyable. Before we moved here in 2016, I heard it was free to play the exec courses so I did not expect much, but I have been very pleasantly surprised with the quality and condition of the courses.

My wife has learned to play golf and we enjoy playing and practicing together. These are the best days of our lives.

[Two Bills]

Some of us who have been around for more than 15 years have seen the deterioration.
We have had weather issues over the years....golf courses did not look like they do today.
We have had busy and busier seasons in recent years.....take a look at some public courses here or back home....heavy seasonal play....well maintained approaches and greens.

We are not complaining about having the course be comparable to private, high(er) greens fee clubs. We are comparing today with what used to be.

There is absolutely no doubt the courses are much, MUCH worse than previous years. Little or no doubt about the falling off of the amount and quality of maintenance.

And as a previous poster pointed out, the people who do work on the golf courses have almost no understanding of their role when there are players approaching......NONE! Which is also an indicator of failing/failed/don't give a crap management.

Wife and I have snowbirded here 20 years. Courses have always shown signs of wear during High Season, but last few years it has got bad.
This last winter it is not just wear, it is neglect.
Many courses are a digrace.

[biker1]

Stopping payment of your Amenity Fee is simply not an option. This is something that you have obligated yourself to pay. Also, how would you propose calculating what percentage of the Amenity Fee is directed to golf courses that you feel are lacking? While some Executive Courses have problematic greens, others are in very good shape.


There are many other examples that could be put to print regarding the poor and/or lack of maintenance of The Villages Executive Courses; however, in the interest of time may we suggest that if The Villages Course Maintenance Department cannot maintain the Executive Courses we The Villages Golfers should discontinue paying The Villages Amenity fee that applies to the Executive Course Maintenance as well as any Trial Fees that may apply until this problem is corrected.

Make your voice be heard and make some noise -- all The Villages wants is our money and they provide little for the funds received to maintain the Executive Golf Courses.

[TimeForChange]

I play only Champ courses and some of them are in the same condition. Even with a "Priority" membership that cost $960 a year I paid $42 to play Mallory yesterday and the greens are terrible. Thousands of rounds of golf, leaving the pin in to putt and not taking the pin out to retrieve your ball makes for a damaged hole on the green. There are simply not enough courses for the number of people playing golf and this will only get worse. At some point there will be a breaking point.

[dewilson58]

This will never be a positive poll.

[Polar Bear]

"Poor" is well under 50%. Based on those "deplorable" threads, one might have expected much higher. (I know "fair" isn't that good, but it definitely beats "deplorable".

[graciegirl]

In just 12 days, JUST 12 DAYS, there will be thousands and thousands of fewer feet pummeling the golf courses here.

That will be a good start toward recovery. The nine hole courses are booked more consistently and used more than other courses in this country, I would guess.


But we all do love snowbirds, having been that species ourselves, most of us.

Good morning. It is a beautiful day in The Villages.
__________________

[raynan]

Didn't The Villages just take back golf course management from a subcontractor? We need to give them a chance to improve the courses. I agree that many need to be closed and overhauled. Redfish #8 & #9 greens with their patchwork is a disgrace and unplayable. I'm sure there will be several closures after April 1 or maybe May 1.

[VApeople]

What are people complaining about and what specific courses?

Condition of the greens? The quality of sand in the bunkers? Condition of the fairways and tees?

On Longleaf, where we played yesterday, the turf on some of the tees was very hard. When we played Bacall last year. the grass in the rough was too high and it was easy to lose a ball. Truman was great last week.

[sheena0904]

In just 12 days, JUST 12 DAYS, there will be thousands and thousands of fewer feet pummeling the golf courses here.

That will be a good start toward recovery. The nine hole courses are booked more consistently and used more than other courses in this country, I would guess.


But we all do love snowbirds, having been that species ourselves, most of us.

Good morning. It is a beautiful day in The Villages.
__________________

100% accurate.

[Two Bills]

In just 12 days, JUST 12 DAYS, there will be thousands and thousands of fewer feet pummeling the golf courses here.

That will be a good start toward recovery. The nine hole courses are booked more consistently and used more than other courses in this country, I would guess.


But we all do love snowbirds, having been that species ourselves, most of us.

Good morning. It is a beautiful day in The Villages.

__________________

The courses have had the same number of rounds played on them for years during "The Season" but a large number have never been in such a poor state as they are now.
I am not whining about pitchmarks, unraked sand etc. those complaints will always be with us, it is just the greens are devoid of grass, crumbling, and basicly neglected.
The problem is simply lack of, or at best, poor maintainance, because if it is not, it is plain neglect, which is nothing less than the management giving the golfers the finger.

[photo1902]

The courses have had the same number of rounds played on them for years during "The Season" but a large number have never been in such a poor state as they are now.
I am not whining about pitchmarks, unraked sand etc. those complaints will always be with us, it is just the greens are devoid of grass, crumbling, and basicly neglected.
The problem is simply lack of, or at best, poor maintainance, because if it is not, it is plain neglect, which is nothing less than the management giving the golfers the finger.

I agree with your statement. Never have I seen the greens in such poor shape as this season.

[Shbullet]

Agreed

[Laker14]

What are people complaining about and what specific courses?

Condition of the greens? The quality of sand in the bunkers? Condition of the fairways and tees?

On Longleaf, where we played yesterday, the turf on some of the tees was very hard. When we played Bacall last year. the grass in the rough was too high and it was easy to lose a ball. Truman was great last week.

I played Truman on Sunday, in the drizzle. First time I've ever played it. I thought it was a great layout. Very pretty. The greens were pretty bad. Maybe because of the rain they did not get mowed, but the grass in the greens was long, and lots of bare spots. It was not uncommon to have a putt bounce 2 or 3 inches in the air.

I've played Pelican a few times, and Bacall and Bogart a few times. Basically, the greens were about as bad as any greens I've ever played on, and I've played public municipal courses my whole life.

This is not a complaint, but an unbiased observation. I have no clue how you could maintain decent greens during the non-growing season, with constant play, all day long, every day. It is what it is. I still enjoy playing them.

I hear a lot of complaints from the crew I play the Championship courses with. No grass in the chipping areas, fairways are sparse. I suggest "preferred lies" everywhere, and quit the bellyaching. Pretty much, they'd rather bellyache.

[Two Bills]

I hear a lot of complaints from the crew I play the Championship courses with. No grass in the chipping areas, fairways are sparse. I suggest "preferred lies" everywhere, and quit the bellyaching. Pretty much, they'd rather bellyache.

So you are pretty happy to accept crappy maintanance, sub standard conditions, pay $40-$60 bucks a round, play prefered lies, rather than "bellyache?"
Do me a favor!!

[anothersteve]

I hear a lot of complaints from the crew I play the Championship courses with. No grass in the chipping areas, fairways are sparse. I suggest "preferred lies" everywhere, and quit the bellyaching. Pretty much, they'd rather bellyache.

So you are pretty happy to accept crappy maintanance, sub standard conditions, pay $40-$60 bucks a round, play prefered lies, rather than "bellyache?"
Do me a favor!!

Where are you paying 40- 60 a round? You should try after 2
Steve

[Two Bills]

Where are you paying 40- 60 a round? You should try after 2
Steve

So according to your logic, I should wait for the Christmas sales before I go shopping!!!

[anothersteve]

So according to your logic, I should wait for the Christmas sales before I go shopping!!!

Now that makes absolutely no sense.
Steve

[Bigben007]

Sweet Gum has been closed for a month. There is a constant stream of trucks and workers around all day.

[Laker14]

I hear a lot of complaints from the crew I play the Championship courses with. No grass in the chipping areas, fairways are sparse. I suggest "preferred lies" everywhere, and quit the bellyaching. Pretty much, they'd rather bellyache.

So you are pretty happy to accept crappy maintanance, sub standard conditions, pay $40-$60 bucks a round, play prefered lies, rather than "bellyache?"
Do me a favor!!

Yes. Exactly. I didn't get a Priority Membership this year because I wasn't sure how much golf I'd get to play, (I'm rehabbing an injury) so I've been paying 56-64 bucks.

Would I love to have better conditions? sure. But given the play, the cost, the time of year, and my options, I'm fine with it.

[gqd7806]

The absolute worse conditions I've ever seen since coming to TV in 2007. Time for me to put my retirement dream on the market... your future is what you see now for many years to come. Next will be the Championship courses and amenity fees raised to pay for sub par grass cutters. Enjoy

[kcrazorbackfan]

winter, very little rain, over playing the courses...every winter we hear the same gripes...every summer they come back and are in superb condition in august/september/october....cutting back the brush doesn't make pelican any easier except that you can see your target. Anyone who feels otherwise is sadly mistaken. You want outstanding playing conditions all the time...join a private club at $25k/yr with a green fee of around $60.

It always helps to ignore most complainers due to their lack of facts...sometimes it's hard not to answer...

Boom 💥. Excellent post.

[Northwoods]

I guess The Villages should close down those courses where the greens need repair to fix the issues. Tee times will be harder to get than they are now. No one will complain about that... right?
Sweetgum is closed indefinitely. They just worked on Mangrove. Personally, I've found availability on Exec. courses to be the worst I've seen since moving here. I just looked at tomorrow's availability on courses south of Lake Sumter (excluding Fenney). There isn't a single open tee time early in the morning... the first tee times I could find for 2 people are after 5:00 pm. I think maintenance is on the course during the day because there isn't any open time to work on the course. I also think there will be an uproar by residents if they restrict play time to try to fix the issue.

[anothersteve]

I guess The Villages should close down those courses where the greens need repair to fix the issues. Tee times will be harder to get than they are now. No one will complain about that... right?
Sweetgum is closed indefinitely. They just worked on Mangrove. Personally, I've found availability on Exec. courses to be the worst I've seen since moving here. I just looked at tomorrow's availability on courses south of Lake Sumter (excluding Fenney). There isn't a single open tee time early in the morning... the first tee times I could find for 2 people are after 5:00 pm. I think maintenance is on the course during the day because there isn't any open time to work on the course. I also think there will be an uproar by residents if they restrict play time to try to fix the issue.

Just what the heck do you expect requesting a tee time the day before??
Steve

[Northwoods]

I wasn't requesting a tee time. I wanted to see how "slammed" the courses were. They are booked from dawn until 5:30. My point is... people are golfing from sun up until after 5:00. There isn't time for maintenance to work on the courses. IMO there are more people golfing than in past years...

[anothersteve]

I wasn't requesting a tee time. I wanted to see how "slammed" the courses were. They are booked from dawn until 5:30. My point is... people are golfing from sun up until after 5:00. There isn't time for maintenance to work on the courses. IMO there are more people golfing than in past years...

Good point!
Steve

[Brownmoose13]

I have not played them this season but I am told that the Exec courses up north (Oakleigh, Briarwood, Amberwood, etc,) are in fine shape. Also Tierra del Sole and Palmer are perfect. I played Redfish Run yesterday and it is an eyesore to The Villages's image. Why are the courses south of 466 in such bad shape? This is a perfect topic for The Daily Sun to run an article and get some straightforward answers from the golf department. It is also my understanding that many people were fired January 1 but I did not read what the changes meant unless I missed it.
Regardless of complaints some courses need to be completely closed as keeping them open will not solve the problem. Time for The Villages to bite the bullet and do the right thing.

[anothersteve]

I have not played them this season but I am told that the Exec courses up north (Oakleigh, Briarwood, Amberwood, etc,) are in fine shape. Also Tierra del Sole and Palmer are perfect. I played Redfish Run yesterday and it is an eyesore to The Villages's image. Why are the courses south of 466 in such bad shape? This is a perfect topic for The Daily Sun to run an article and get some straightforward answers from the golf department. It is also my understanding that many people were fired January 1 but I did not read what the changes meant unless I missed it.
Regardless of complaints some courses need to be completely closed as keeping them open will not solve the problem. Time for The Villages to bite the bullet and do the right thing.

Just a thought.
Maybe, just maybe they are keeping all the courses open until the summer months so the rest of the courses don't get overrun with play, and chance putting those in crappy condition also. I say If they intend, and need to close some courses, do it during the summer,....and yes,.....after the snowbirds leave.
Steve

[Laker14]

I have not played them this season but I am told that the Exec courses up north (Oakleigh, Briarwood, Amberwood, etc,) are in fine shape. Also Tierra del Sole and Palmer are perfect. I played Redfish Run yesterday and it is an eyesore to The Villages's image. Why are the courses south of 466 in such bad shape? This is a perfect topic for The Daily Sun to run an article and get some straightforward answers from the golf department. It is also my understanding that many people were fired January 1 but I did not read what the changes meant unless I missed it.
Regardless of complaints some courses need to be completely closed as keeping them open will not solve the problem. Time for The Villages to bite the bullet and do the right thing.

I think the reason that the courses south of 466 are in worse condition than those north of that is simple demographics. There are lots more golfers south of 466, and the farther south of 466 one is, the longer the cart ride to the northern courses.
I too have scanned the tee times available on the days prior to play after the requested slots have been filled, and there are more times available in the northern-most courses, and of course in Fenney.
I do this because I'm a single male golfer (wife does not golf), and I want some control over who I play with. My lady friends tell me it's disconcerting for 3 females to get stuck with an add-on male.
I don't think it's any coincidence that the hardest courses to find an open slot on are also the ones that seem to have the worst greens.

I don't have a decade of experience, so I can't comment on how much worse the condition is now compared to previous years, or how much more play the courses are getting now vs. then. But it wouldn't be surprising with the growth of TV that the courses are maxing out.

My friends went to play in Fenney, from Largo, and had to pay for a cart. Not a big deal, a few bucks each, but the Fenney players get free carts when they travel, thus encouraging more play north of Fenney.

[Kerry Azz]

I wish a boycott would work but doubt a significant number of golfers would participate. You know, local golf clubs can establish rules in addition to the USGA Rules fo Golf. For example, The Villages can tell me how to dress, then it ought to be able to require the pin to be pulled during the high season. I played Red Trash, sorry, Fish, today with it's lovely painted greens, and nearly every hole had damage from people using ball pickers. What other controls might The Villages introduce to protect the courses? If they cared. But they probably don't. As I posted before, the new marketing slogan should be "Play Free Golf For Life, but you might hate it."
I played Tarpon boil and red fish and they were both ridiculously trashed. I agree if you can’t bend over and pick your ball up”DONT PLAY!
Pulling the pin shouldn’t even be an issue the Ambassadors should be instructed to enforce it.

[billethkid]

I think the reason that the courses south of 466 are in worse condition than those north of that is simple demographics. There are lots more golfers south of 466, and the farther south of 466 one is, the longer the cart ride to the northern courses.
I too have scanned the tee times available on the days prior to play after the requested slots have been filled, and there are more times available in the northern-most courses, and of course in Fenney.
I do this because I'm a single male golfer (wife does not golf), and I want some control over who I play with. My lady friends tell me it's disconcerting for 3 females to get stuck with an add-on male.
I don't think it's any coincidence that the hardest courses to find an open slot on are also the ones that seem to have the worst greens.

I don't have a decade of experience, so I can't comment on how much worse the condition is now compared to previous years, or how much more play the courses are getting now vs. then. But it wouldn't be surprising with the growth of TV that the courses are maxing out.

My friends went to play in Fenney, from Largo, and had to pay for a cart. Not a big deal, a few bucks each, but the Fenney players get free carts when they travel, thus encouraging more play north of Fenney.

The size and growth of TV is not really a factor. The courses are booked almost solid regardless the size of the current or future population.

Same number of players per day at 50,000 or 100,000 population.

The courses are poorly managed and maintained it is just that simple. All one has to do, one time, is see what a properly maintained course looks like........that is just as busy daily.

[Bruce zapolski]

When are the village owners going to step up and take care of this problem? Very sad

[anothersteve]

I played Tarpon boil and red fish and they were both ridiculously trashed. I agree if you can’t bend over and pick your ball up”DONT PLAY!
Pulling the pin shouldn’t even be an issue the Ambassadors should be instructed to enforce it.

It's not the Ambassador's job to police the course.
Steve

[VApeople]

My lady friends tell me it's disconcerting for 3 females to get stuck with an add-on male.

Believe me, I understand!

In Virginia, I always played with other men, but one day we only had three players and a young lady asked to join us. We thought she would slow us down, but she played pretty well and on the last hole had a tricky 4-foot breaking putt for a par.

She said, "If I sink this putt, I will break 90 for the first time. If one of you guys will help me, I will give you the best sex you ever had."

I said, "Sure, I'll help. It's a gimmie".

Of course, there is more to this story, but you guys probably don't care to hear the rest.

[Laker14]

Believe me, I understand!

In Virginia, I always played with other men, but one day we only had three players and a young lady asked to join us. We thought she would slow us down, but she played pretty well and on the last hole had a tricky 4-foot breaking putt for a par.

She said, "If I sink this putt, I will break 90 for the first time. If one of you guys will help me, I will give you the best sex you ever had."

I said, "Sure, I'll help. It's a gimmie".

Of course, there is more to this story, but you guys probably don't care to hear the rest.

You can PM me the rest of the details.

[Two Bills]

Believe me, I understand!

In Virginia, I always played with other men, but one day we only had three players and a young lady asked to join us. We thought she would slow us down, but she played pretty well and on the last hole had a tricky 4-foot breaking putt for a par.

She said, "If I sink this putt, I will break 90 for the first time. If one of you guys will help me, I will give you the best sex you ever had."

I said, "Sure, I'll help. It's a gimmie".

Of course, there is more to this story, but you guys probably don't care to hear the rest.

You were very wise. My mate played with the same lady, but made her putt out. She missed!

[ricthemic]

Between 466 and 466A they installed 16 executive courses and in that area they are located every where.
Between 466A and 44 they installed 7 executive courses. All 7 located in 2 areas both close to 466A.
Maybe this supply and demand situation is part of the problem.

[tophcfa]

Some of us who have been around for more than 15 years have seen the deterioration.
We have had weather issues over the years....golf courses did not look like they do today.
We have had busy and busier seasons in recent years.....take a look at some public courses here or back home....heavy seasonal play....well maintained approaches and greens.

We are not complaining about having the course be comparable to private, high(er) greens fee clubs. We are comparing today with what used to be.

There is absolutely no doubt the courses are much, MUCH worse than previous years. Little or no doubt about the falling off of the amount and quality of maintenance.

As billethkid points out, people who have been here for years have noticed a significant decline in the course quality over time. I have only been frequenting the courses for 5 years and have never seen conditions as bad as this year (executive courses), not just within the Villages, but anywhere. The problem for me is the greens. Other poor conditions on executive courses don't matter much. Since you are hitting off T,s, T box conditions are more for looks. If sand traps are not raked we simply rake and place our balls. But you can not compensate for poor greens.

On a positive note, the new greens at Tierra Del Sol are beautiful. If this new hybrid grass technology can eventually be put into all greens throughout the Villages golf courses, things will improve dramatically. That will take years, but be well worth the effort and expense in my opinion. I guess tIme will tell.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I always figured places that have no "off season" would have the worst wear and tear on their golf courses. Golf courses that never close for a couple of months every year don't get that time of rest and natural regeneration. Farmers all know that you need two sections of the same crop. And every year, you "fallow" one section to give it time to replenish the soil. You alternate between seasons. Obviously you can't close down every golf course for three months at the same time. But perhaps a rotation is possible. So at any given time, a few out of the 40 executive courses would be closed for a couple of weeks, with none of the closed ones too close to the others, so that everyone who is inconvenienced by "their" course being closed, would still be fairly close to the next one over.

[Mikeod]

I always figured places that have no "off season" would have the worst wear and tear on their golf courses. Golf courses that never close for a couple of months every year don't get that time of rest and natural regeneration. Farmers all know that you need two sections of the same crop. And every year, you "fallow" one section to give it time to replenish the soil. You alternate between seasons. Obviously you can't close down every golf course for three months at the same time. But perhaps a rotation is possible. So at any given time, a few out of the 40 executive courses would be closed for a couple of weeks, with none of the closed ones too close to the others, so that everyone who is inconvenienced by "their" course being closed, would still be fairly close to the next one over.

They already do that over the summer every year. The close a few executive courses for a week or two so all get some rest and more extensive maintenance can be done.

[Challenger]

Here 8 yrs. 1500+ rounds on Execs for me. Always rake and fix ball marks. Maintenance has deteriorated significantly since we played our first round here as anyone who plays here can clearly see. Maintenance personnel are completely ignorant and poorly trained (or supervised) Ambassadors need to be empowered to confront golfers who don't rake, don't fix ball marks, drive in areas where they are doing damage, and severely retard play (can be done politely). There, I said it and I am glad--Hmmmmmmmmmm!

[MrGolf]

Couldn’t agree more.

[Shbullet]

It's not the Ambassador's job to police the course.
Steve

,,,

[daddymac1127]

I read all the complaints of everyone concerning the conditions of the golf courses. First of all if we are living in the Villages we are retired; we are not on the Professional Golf Tour but are sounding like them. Yes the courses may not be pristine like the Pro courses but this is also the busy season and the dry season. Right now if you were up North you won't be playing any golf.

I am not saying that we shouldn't tell management of our concern. We should but we should also think of the alternative.

[UpNorth]

You still have to tee it up and hit a decent shot. The greens and traps may not be in the best shape all the time, but it sure does beat shoveling snow. Inexpensive winter golf, difficult to find in Florida. But yes, could be better.

[Barefoot]

I read all the complaints of everyone concerning the conditions of the golf courses. First of all if we are living in the Villages we are retired; we are not on the Professional Golf Tour but are sounding like them. Yes the courses may not be pristine like the Pro courses but this is also the busy season and the dry season. I agree, it is the busy season and the dry season.
Executive golf courses are constantly used from dawn to dusk.
I think they are definitely showing wear, but the staff try to keep them in good condition.
Some courses have been closed for reseeding, and golfers complain about that also.

[ColdNoMore]

The exec's are..."free golf for life."

Where's the incentive...to make them even 'average?'

The fact that the "championship" course are not free, and in fact are not even really a "value" compared to other course nearby (even with a priority membership)...is what makes me wonder why they're not in better condition? :shrug:

[Shbullet]

The exec's are..."free golf for life."

Where's the incentive...to make them even 'average?'

The fact that the "championship" course are not free, and in fact are not even really a "value" compared to other course nearby (even with a priority membership)...is what makes me wonder why they're not in better condition? :shrug:

I would say you answered that perfectly in your 2nd sentence

[justjim]

I would say you answered that perfectly in your 2nd sentence

If our amenity fees are not going toward the executive courses, what happens to all that money... :ohdear:

[rwf6325]

I totally agree that courses south of 466 are in very bad shape. Since a lot of the golfers that play these courses are not good golfers many do not fix their ball Mark's or pull the pins after putting and are tearing the sides of the cups with the ball retriever on their putter handle. Come on folks we can help the maint people by fixing our damage to the courses.

[DaleDivine]

If our amenity fees are not going toward the executive courses, what happens to all that money... :ohdear:

Money is going to maintain the pretty flower areas in the median strips and upkeep postal stations. Just to name a couple of factors.

One of the problems with the courses is the fact that management is experimenting with not over seeding the courses. This hasn't been done for the past 2 seasons.

The Administrators that teach the "Good Golf School" (and this should be mandatory in TV) say that there are over THREE MILLION rounds of golf played every year in The Villages. TWO MILLION on the execs and ONE MILLION on the championships. THAT is a lot of wear and tear on any golf course.

My friends an I played Water Oak golf course a couple of weeks ago. That course gets close to the same amount of play as our courses in TV. Fairways are in very good shape and the greens are in excellent condition. For our Beautiful Villages, our courses should be in the same condition.

Oh, and with 3 courses (Redfish Run, Tarpon Boil, and Sweetgum) being closed for repair, should say something about the "DEPLORABLE" conditions of our executive courses.

:spoken:

[dewilson58]

Same poll results as How Many Times will you move in TV.



:MOJE_whot:

[Deebee007]

Some exec courses are better than others. Happy April, let's hope they can catch up now.

[Meetony]

Worst shape in 5 years

[ColdNoMore]

SNIP...>Money is going to maintain the pretty flower areas in the median strips and upkeep postal stations. Just to name a couple of factors.<...SNIP Exactly. :thumbup:

Since amenity fees are paid by everyone, regardless if one plays free golf or not (or lives here year around for that matter)...the money is obviously spread across many other maintenance projects.

Given the 'captured audience' here and the ability to drive ones cart form their driveway to any of the championship or executive courses, Da Family knows that most of us will pay for the championship courses, regardless of overall course conditions...simply out of convenience. :shrug:

Given this, the incentive to increase the conditions of the exec's...just isn't there.

While there would probably be a huge outcry and screeching, if Da Family really wanted to...they could change some behavior of those who don't bother taking care of our courses.

Simply start handing out, and keep track of, warnings (using ID cards) and if someone is caught repeatedly not taking care of the courses (not raking bunkers/fixing divots/parking too close/Etc.)...give them a 30 day "timeout."

Yes, this would result in increasing costs for the developer, but maybe in the long run...it reduces overall cost in course maintenance?

Flame suit on. :throwtomatoes:

:D

[fastboat]

Played the 18 hole Pitch n Play in Fenney this weekend. They use a imitation grass mat on the tee boxes, EXCELLENT idea. Much easier to tee off, does away with all the divot damage, less maintance needed, and the ambassadors don't have to clean up all the broken tees that are left by Village slobs. Probably should be installed at all the Executive coures. Got to be less expensive in the long run.

[jimmemac]

Many are a disgrace

[Balesschool]

Yesterday I discovered a sign on the Pelican/Heron bulletin board. It said, "Is the course playing up to par? Please pass along any comments about golf course conditions to:

Eric Van Gorder
Director of Executive Golf Maintenance
eric.vangorder@districtgov.org
352-753-3396

[Bogeybobtoo]

Not only are the Executive course in poor condition, both Havana and Bonifay on the 18 hole circuit are also in terrible condition. It’s just a matter of GREED and PROFITS. Two things come to mind, They started the practice of not overseeing with winter rye grass about 3 years ago to save money and maximize their profits. Secondly, there is a general lack of supervision of the several maintenance companies that are responsible for the golf course up keep. Throw in some very dry months and continuous play, it’s a recipe for trouble. That’s my take. Happy golfing"???????

[graciegirl]

Not only are the Executive course in poor condition, both Havana and Bonifay on the 18 hole circuit are also in terrible condition. It’s just a matter of GREED and PROFITS. Two things come to mind, They started the practice of not overseeing with winter rye grass about 3 years ago to save money and maximize their profits. Secondly, there is a general lack of supervision of the several maintenance companies that are responsible for the golf course up keep. Throw in some very dry months and continuous play, it’s a recipe for trouble. That’s my take. Happy golfing"???????

Welcome to the Forum.

[wjk1912totv]

As always... you get what you pay for!

[birdiebill]

A major problem with the condition of the grass is that Bermuda grass, the type of grass used in warmer climates does not grow in the cooler temperatures of our winter. Northern grasses would not grow in our summer. Overseeding is done generally with rye grass which would grow in our winter, but then dies out in the warming temperatures of our summer. I believe I read where recent studies have shown that overseeing negatively impacts the return of the Bermuda grass when temperatures warm back up in the spring and summer; I don't remember where I read that.

Thus, heavy play, dry conditions, and Bermuda grass do not allow the greens to recover during the cooler winter months. IF and that is a BIG IF overseeing makes the greens play better and look better in the winter, but have a negative effect on the Bermuda for summer, the decision makers have to decide which is better for the long run.

[justjim]

Perhaps next year they will find money to do something different. Obviously the “experiment” of not overseeding (especially the greens) did not work very well. I don’t believe water had anything to do with the shape of the greens or tee boxes as we went into the winter with the retention ponds pretty much to capacity. Fore!

[OhioBuckeye]

Attention The Villages Executive Course Golfers -- it seems like The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has lost control of the Executive Courses South of CR 466. These Courses are in need of major repair and they should be closed for repair.

The poor condition of the Executive Courses is the result of poor and/or lack the of maintenance by The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department. The Villages Executive Golf Courses are so bad that most of the Golfers that play them have gone to a two putt maximum when playing.

As an example of the poor maintenance of the Golf Courses, Pelican was a challenging course that many Golfers looked forward to playing. However, the Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has totally destroyed the course by clearing out almost every environmental hazardous area which has totally destroyed the appeal of the course.

Also, when a Golfer encounters most of the Golf Course Maintenance Department personnel on any course the maintenance personnel seem to have no idea about the game of Golf by either standing in the Golfers way and/or watering as the Golfer attempts to play.

There are many other examples that could be put to print regarding the poor and/or lack of maintenance of The Villages Executive Courses; however, in the interest of time may we suggest that if The Villages Course Maintenance Department cannot maintain the Executive Courses we The Villages Golfers should discontinue paying The Villages Amenity fee that applies to the Executive Course Maintenance as well as any Trial Fees that may apply until this problem is corrected.

Make your voice be heard and make some noise -- all The Villages wants is our money and they provide little for the funds received to maintain the Executive Golf Courses.

Well, when we moved to the Villages 7 yrs. ago, the Executive courses were played a lot but not like they are now. They had the same issues then as most of us say they are having now. I really think it's just the season where they get played the most, in the winter the grass goes dormant & when the grass doesn't grow as much & with heavy play, what do we expect. Just like our yards they can't fertilize them in winter & force them to grow, that'll kill the grass for sure. They'll come back, but us golfers want nice courses all the time but it's not going to happen. Be patient!

[Bogie Shooter]

Not only are the Executive course in poor condition, both Havana and Bonifay on the 18 hole circuit are also in terrible condition. It’s just a matter of GREED and PROFITS. Two things come to mind, They started the practice of not overseeing with winter rye grass about 3 years ago to save money and maximize their profits. Secondly, there is a general lack of supervision of the several maintenance companies that are responsible for the golf course up keep. Throw in some very dry months and continuous play, it’s a recipe for trouble. That’s my take. Happy golfing"???????

Played Havana last Thursday and did not find the greens in terrible condition. Perfect no....but hardly terrible.

[dennisgavin]

I don't have a one size fits all answer. I think the courses are generally if decent shape but often not in great shape.
I am a relatively new golfer and don't know for sure what are the correct methods of maintaining a golf course. I do see room
for improvement though. In the past I was not impressed paying a premium for Lopez and playing on some very poor greens. Have not played there in a while. Hawkes Bay was redone last year and it looks like Saddlebrook will be done this summer as it is listed to be closed for 3 months.
I have played Baseline several times (not lately) and it seems to be more lush versus the hard pack of TV courses. I figure if they can do it????

[wildjac]

Keep in mind, I believe the "Villages" recently "took back" golf course management from the people doing it so, maybe they have noticed the deterioration of the courses as well? I played Bacall this week and a few of the greens are in bad shape. Greens can take a long time to bounce back unless you tear them up and replace them and the current volume of play is not going to allow any green to repair itself. Catch 22 unless you want to close down courses to let them "rebound".

[arickis]

I have been here 11 years now, and have been golfing on the exec's about 4 times a week. There has been, without a doubt, a drop in the quality of the care on the courses in general. I have noticed this north and south of 466. Try golfing on Silver Lake with the par 4 having no grass on the fairway. Hard pan and sand. Spotty care on all the courses seems to be the rule...this cannot be denied. Not complaining but stating a fact.

[midtee9]

Here 8 yrs. 1500+ rounds on Execs for me. Always rake and fix ball marks. Maintenance has deteriorated significantly since we played our first round here as anyone who plays here can clearly see. Maintenance personnel are completely ignorant and poorly trained (or supervised) Ambassadors need to be empowered to confront golfers who don't rake, don't fix ball marks, drive in areas where they are doing damage, and severely retard play (can be done politely). There, I said it and I am glad--Hmmmmmmmmmm!

Hi, this will hopefully get better as "The Family" has taken control of the course management. The slide in the conditions should be
fixed quickly. One of the main attraction factors to a large amount of the residents was the golf. The word gets around that the courses are suffering will not have the impact that is wanted for the future.
The residents and ruling folks should take a look at Bladerunner Farms near San Antonio, TX. Some of the grass options they offer may have a good outcome for the situation here. I have no interest
with them. Just want to make things better for everyone who golfs.

[EKosmo]

I fully concur! Needs immediate attention! Over played and minimal maintenance

[Dilligas]

I get sick and tired of everyone blaming everything they don't like on the developer's greed and money. If they were that greedy, they'd have turned TV and golf courses over to the residents some years ago (much in the same manner that Del Webb and his Sun Cities did). If that would have happened, you'd be moving instead of complaining. The golf courses in TV get a tremendous amount of play each year, and the heaviest play is in Dec-April, when renters and snowbirds are here. That time period is also when the grasses are in a dormant state and don't grow. Rye looks good and is nice when it is full and cold, but the first hot spell we get, stops the rye and doesn't stimulate the bermuda....hence dirt. Comparing TV course to those 'at home' or resorts in the area is wishful thinking. None of those course everyone mentions gets anywhere close to the play TV does. Baseline is owned and operated by a nursery. The course management is woring to make things better. Some of the Executive courses should be closed for a month when they get bad, to allow the turf to recover.....but then the players would be complaining about them being closed when most needed. A big help would be for ALL players to respect the courses better. Filll in divots, repair ball marks correctly, rake and leave bunkers in a better condition than they found them, and not drive all over the course when it is not necessary. Resonable Accomidation tags are grossly over abused with carts too close to greens and bunkers, parking on turf when cart path is a few feet farther, and driving all over course instead of utilizing 90 degree entry from cart paths. The green abuse has escalated with the new pin in the hole rule. Players have become too lazy to reach in the hole to get their ball, or if an aid is necessary, pulling the pin before retrieving the ball. The lazy use of a putter head to fish the ball from the hole is never acceptable as it always causes the sides of holes to be destroyed. When the hole is destroyed, the ball will lip-out frequently, causing the 'player' to complain about poor maintainence. We should all treat our courses as if WE OWNED them.

[donsnider52@gmail.com]

I do agree that the executive courses have never been in poorer condition in my 5 year experience golfing in The Villages. I would urge people responsible for the management of these courses to pay attention to what seems to be a growing number of golfers dismayed by deteriorating course conditions. It sure leaves a bad impression on guests who could turn into home owners if they enjoy their golf experience as my wife and I did when we first visited The Villages on a Life Style visit and are now home owners. Think about it!

Attention The Villages Executive Course Golfers -- it seems like The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has lost control of the Executive Courses South of CR 466. These Courses are in need of major repair and they should be closed for repair.

The poor condition of the Executive Courses is the result of poor and/or lack the of maintenance by The Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department. The Villages Executive Golf Courses are so bad that most of the Golfers that play them have gone to a two putt maximum when playing.

As an example of the poor maintenance of the Golf Courses, Pelican was a challenging course that many Golfers looked forward to playing. However, the Villages Golf Course Maintenance Department has totally destroyed the course by clearing out almost every environmental hazardous area which has totally destroyed the appeal of the course.

Also, when a Golfer encounters most of the Golf Course Maintenance Department personnel on any course the maintenance personnel seem to have no idea about the game of Golf by either standing in the Golfers way and/or watering as the Golfer attempts to play.

There are many other examples that could be put to print regarding the poor and/or lack of maintenance of The Villages Executive Courses; however, in the interest of time may we suggest that if The Villages Course Maintenance Department cannot maintain the Executive Courses we The Villages Golfers should discontinue paying The Villages Amenity fee that applies to the Executive Course Maintenance as well as any Trial Fees that may apply until this problem is corrected.

Make your voice be heard and make some noise -- all The Villages wants is our money and they provide little for the funds received to maintain the Executive Golf Courses.

[VApeople]

We played Longleaf yesterday afternoon and the course was in very good shape. We had a great time.

[ouatiny]

ok 2.068,752 rounds played in 2018 or about 53,000 rounds per courses based on 39 courses. so even if they more staff the courses wouldn't be much better. personally I think it is a lack of water . maybe you need a for sale sign

[Shbullet]

ok 2.068,752 rounds played in 2018 or about 53,000 rounds per courses based on 39 courses. so even if they more staff the courses wouldn't be much better. personally I think it is a lack of water . maybe you need a for sale sign

What a lousy response to a growing issue for many..

[Shbullet]

We played Longleaf yesterday afternoon and the course was in very good shape. We had a great time.

Agreed we played gray fox and red fox sat and both were in good shape. had a great time. They seem to be in much better shape than north

[blueash]

Here is a thread from 2010 with almost exactly the same complaints.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/executive-greens-27559/index2.html


Just my opinion but if you consider the amount of play that the executive courses get and the weather conditions in the past month, I think you can understand why the greens are in such bad shapes.


I have always thought that it is the little things that make a difference in a golf course. Filling ball washers, grooming around sand traps, you name it, it is the small stuff and if that is not getting done the big stuff never does.

I was about to purchase a home but was alarmed about some complaints I have been hearing about the state of the greens



Having said this if the staff on hand cannot handle the problems then Golf Management should bring in better professionals to consult on the problems.

[photo1902]

Agreed we played gray fox and red fox sat and both were in good shape. had a great time. They seem to be in much better shape than north

The 4 courses in Fenney get a LOT less play than those north of 44. I'm certainly not an expert, but it probably is not coincidental.

[Shbullet]

The 4 courses in Fenney get a LOT less play than those north of 44. I'm certainly not an expert, but it probably is not coincidental.

Wasn't really looking for a answer as to why they are in good shape, merely stating we had a good time and they were in better shape than up north.

[Bogie Shooter]

I do agree that the executive courses have never been in poorer condition in my 5 year experience golfing in The Villages. I would urge people responsible for the management of these courses to pay attention to what seems to be a growing number of golfers dismayed by deteriorating course conditions. It sure leaves a bad impression on guests who could turn into home owners if they enjoy their golf experience as my wife and I did when we first visited The Villages on a Life Style visit and are now home owners. Think about it!

Posting on here will not accomplish that.
With a little effort the phone number to call the responsible can be found.

[Bogie Shooter]

ok 2.068,752 rounds played in 2018 or about 53,000 rounds per courses based on 39 courses. so even if they more staff the courses wouldn't be much better. personally I think it is a lack of water . maybe you need a for sale sign

What a lousy response to a growing issue for many..

many?

[Bogie Shooter]

The 4 courses in Fenney get a LOT less play than those north of 44. I'm certainly not an expert, but it probably is not coincidental.

Wasn't really looking for a answer as to why they are in good shape, merely stating we had a good time and they were in better shape than up north.

But he is right.

[junction29]

What courses outside TV, but within easy reach, are there that are worth a visit for a change?

[anothersteve]

How many of you complaining are full time residents? Just curious.
Steve

[Mikeod]

A little background. In 2010 I joined a lifestyle group dedicated to monitoring the executive course conditions. We met quarterly with the maintenance director for the executive courses for the district and with representatives from GMS who had responsibility for the courses still owned by the developer. Unfortunately, the group disbanded in 2017 as no resident was willing to take leadership of the group. In those years, we always received positive responses to our suggestions and criticisms. If they could not accomplish what we desired, there was always a sound, logical reason, that didn’t include lack of money. In fact, I was specifically told there was never a problem getting funding for necessary repairs and improvements. One big accomplishment was the district establishing a ten-year plan for updating the courses. Those who have been here a while may remember the summer Chula Vista was closed down for refurbishment.

To the current situation, as mentioned above, year after year the greens and tees were overseeded with cool season grasses (except when low summer rainfall prevented it). Note that the area between tee and green were not overseeded even the par 4 holes so that area always became thin and hard. And year after year we went through a miserable period from late April through May and sometimes well into June where the greens were very poor. As mentioned above, the translation from overseed to base bermuda is hampered by temperatures the cool grasses can tolerate that are not warm enough for the bermuda to flourish. As the temperatures warm, some areas of bermuda start growing, while others where the bermuda is still shaded by the rye do not. When the rye peters out, the bermuda is not ready to fill in and bare spots result. It was always frustrating that by the time the greens were really back, it was almost time to overseed for the next winter.

Thus, a couple of years ago, after getting positive reports on using a nutrient and coloring method instead of overseeding, they decided try the newer method to reduce the transition nightmare. It appears it worked better last year than this. Eliminating overseeding for this method is not a cost savings. Rye seed is fairly inexpensive. All you really need to do is water it.

Another thing germane to the problem is that there are separate water allocations for the golf courses and the homes north of 466. But below 466, there is a single water allocation for everything. So that the more homes that are built and occupied between 466 and 44, the less water may be available for golf courses.

There are different maintenance contractors in different areas each responsible for specific courses. While on the committee we had companies come in and do great for a while, then go downhill. Sometimes a good foreman would get promoted and the replacement was not as conscientious. One of the things our group did was point out deficiencies as we found them and report them to the facility manager/pro to let them notify the contractor to fix it. If their response was not satisfactory, their contract was not renewed. But it appears they had to let them finish the contract.

[Bogie Shooter]

A little background. In 2010 I joined a lifestyle group dedicated to monitoring the executive course conditions. We met quarterly with the maintenance director for the executive courses for the district and with representatives from GMS who had responsibility for the courses still owned by the developer. Unfortunately, the group disbanded in 2017 as no resident was willing to take leadership of the group. In those years, we always received positive responses to our suggestions and criticisms. If they could not accomplish what we desired, there was always a sound, logical reason, that didn’t include lack of money. In fact, I was specifically told there was never a problem getting funding for necessary repairs and improvements. One big accomplishment was the district establishing a ten-year plan for updating the courses. Those who have been here a while may remember the summer Chula Vista was closed down for refurbishment.

To the current situation, as mentioned above, year after year the greens and tees were overseeded with cool season grasses (except when low summer rainfall prevented it). Note that the area between tee and green were not overseeded even the par 4 holes so that area always became thin and hard. And year after year we went through a miserable period from late April through May and sometimes well into June where the greens were very poor. As mentioned above, the translation from overseed to base bermuda is hampered by temperatures the cool grasses can tolerate that are not warm enough for the bermuda to flourish. As the temperatures warm, some areas of bermuda start growing, while others where the bermuda is still shaded by the rye do not. When the rye peters out, the bermuda is not ready to fill in and bare spots result. It was always frustrating that by the time the greens were really back, it was almost time to overseed for the next winter.

Thus, a couple of years ago, after getting positive reports on using a nutrient and coloring method instead of overseeding, they decided try the newer method to reduce the transition nightmare. It appears it worked better last year than this. Eliminating overseeding for this method is not a cost savings. Rye seed is fairly inexpensive. All you really need to do is water it.

Another thing germane to the problem is that there are separate water allocations for the golf courses and the homes north of 466. But below 466, there is a single water allocation for everything. So that the more homes that are built and occupied between 466 and 44, the less water may be available for golf courses.

There are different maintenance contractors in different areas each responsible for specific courses. While on the committee we had companies come in and do great for a while, then go downhill. Sometimes a good foreman would get promoted and the replacement was not as conscientious. One of the things our group did was point out deficiencies as we found them and report them to the facility manager/pro to let them notify the contractor to fix it. If their response was not satisfactory, their contract was not renewed. But it appears they had to let them finish the contract.
Well presented and your posts always make sense.
I hope all the whiners on here take the time to read your post.

[mickmaddox]

I agree

[Shbullet]

many?

yea many!

[Shbullet]

Well presented and your posts always make sense.
I hope all the whiners on here take the time to read your post.

Whiners.....because they are bothered by the conditions? Common....The conditions are poor so why try to hide behind a bunch of fancy talk...Why not just agree the conditions are poor and people are bothered by it...That's it! No explanations needed or history repeated, just plain and simple, the courses are in poor shape this year and people are bothered by it. Nothing more needs to be justified or evaluated.

[Kramenraw]

The “Championship” courses are also suffering the same lack-of-maintenance issues. Posting this comment since all the prior responses have been in regard to the Executive courses.

[tophcfa]

The “Championship” courses are also suffering the same lack-of-maintenance issues. Posting this comment since all the prior responses have been in regard to the Executive courses.

I have to disagree with the above post. The championship courses are in very reasonable conditions based on my honest opinion. Some are better than others, but for the most part they are not that bad. Tierra Del Sol is fabulous, and many others are very good. The executive courses on the other hand, well that is a different story, especially the greens. Again, some are bette than others, but when the greens are nothing but dirt painted green, well that speaks for itself.

[Island57]

I see golfers abusing the courses daily. Parking on or beside greens driving all over fairways hacking up chunks of grass at T off. Cigarettes everywhere, garbage. I guess they feel entitled. Maybe their moms are going to clean up after them.
The maintenance folks are doing the best job they can considering the epic scale of work they are doing.
This is a busy place to live. Considering the zillions of golfers golfing, I’d say it isn’t half bad.

[refeik]

The first world problems on here kill me. You mean to tell me the free golf courses that hundreds of people play on a day are in rough shape?! Surprised this wasn’t the lead story on the news this evening.

Do you have any idea how much money comes from our pockets to maintain the executive courses.

[sheena0904]

Do you have any idea how much money comes from our pockets to maintain the executive courses.
No, do you?

[biker1]

You can probably find on-line the breakdown of where the amenities fee goes. If not, you can call the rec department and they can probably help you out.

Do you have any idea how much money comes from our pockets to maintain the executive courses.

[mulligan]

However, the reason for the conditions is the OP"S opinion ONLY. Not much fact there at all.

[Barefoot]

I see golfers abusing the courses daily. Parking on or beside greens driving all over fairways hacking up chunks of grass at T off. Cigarettes everywhere, garbage. I guess they feel entitled. Maybe their moms are going to clean up after them.
The maintenance folks are doing the best job they can considering the epic scale of work they are doing.
This is a busy place to live. Considering the zillions of golfers golfing, I’d say it isn’t half bad. :agree:

[nana13]

I play at least twice maybe three times a week, Some of the executive courses, show a lot of wear and abuse, I realize that during the winter there is much more activity, than normal with all the snowbirds, visitor's etc. , I have seen many types of Golfers, to those who do not fill in their divets, who take their golf carts on the wet muddy areas when it is posted no carts, they delay those behind them by playing from the wrong tee box. (vanity don't play from the black when you can hit a drive 100 yds.) Throw cigarette butts on the green. Abuse, and attitude of disregard of golf etiquette, and care of the course. I cannot blame all on the maintenance, Yes, they have disregard of the golfers sometimes and I have approached them and told them of their errors, I have also informed the ambassador, if a maintenance person has obstructed play. I truly feel if they set up a rotation schedule schedule for the courses if would allow time for recovery, You can play 9 holes on championship, however most are to cheap to pay the price, they want what they call free Golf HA HA I love my Golf life, I respect the courses, and I play ready Golf, all who come to play Golf should take a course prior to playing as to what Ready Golf is.and respect of the game. I am not a snowbird, but a frog, no disrespect, to those who visit, but please respect us who suffer from you abuse.

[ColdNoMore]

As in a lot of things these days, the bar has been steadily lowered to the point where once what would have been considered unacceptable and outside of norms by ANY reasonable person...is now accepted (and almost expected) by some folks.

This poll (with a current 198 voters) shows 56% consider the conditions "poor"...and another 26% as only "fair."

So in other words, 82% of the voters think the conditions...are at best "fair to poor."

And save the comments/criticism about this poll only having about 200 people voting, because if you are one of those types...I suggest you're kinda clueless on how polls (ANY poll) actually works/represents in the first place. :oops:

For those that keep making excuses, or trying to say that they're really not bad and folks are just whining/complaining for no reason...just go look at the numbers in this poll.

Obviously, there is a silent majority that don't find the current conditions acceptable...but aren't even bothering to post.

Pretty much verifying, that a lot of folks have come to accept that the "bar"...is now basically laying right on the floor. :ohdear:

[anothersteve]

[SIZE="2"]
Obviously, there is a silent majority that don't find the current conditions acceptable...but aren't even bothering to post.


That could work both ways ya know. I'm sure there those who don't post as to not get into an endless discussion/argument.
Heck, I didn't take the poll.
Steve

[ColdNoMore]

That could work both ways ya know. I'm sure there those who don't post as to not get into an endless discussion/argument.
Heck, I didn't take the poll.
Steve

Sorry, but that excuse/viewpoint...doesn't hold water.

82% of voters say the conditions are at best..."FAIR to POOR."

56%...voting "POOR."

Yet the actual posts in this thread, are about 50% of folks saying... "things are just fine." :oops:

Try all you want...both can't be true.

I think I'll believe the 82%...silent majority. :wave:

[anothersteve]

Sorry, but that excuse/viewpoint...doesn't hold water.

82% of voters say the conditions are at best..."FAIR to POOR."

56%...voting "POOR."

Yet the actual posts in this thread, are about 50% of folks saying... "things are just fine." :oops:

Try all you want...both can't be true.

I think I'll believe the 82%...silent majority. :wave:

Exactly my point.
Steve

[ColdNoMore]

SNIP...>Sorry, but that excuse/viewpoint...doesn't hold water.

I think I'll believe the 82%...silent majority. <...SNIP


Exactly my point.
Steve

I guess we agree then. :cool:

[Bay Kid]

Truman's greens are very nice. A little slow, but nice.

[anothersteve]

I guess we agree then. :cool:

Not quite. :faint:
:rolleyes:
Steve

[DARFAP]

Same story every year...ho hum

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Shbullet]

As in a lot of things these days, the bar has been steadily lowered to the point where once what would have been considered unacceptable and outside of norms by ANY reasonable person...is now accepted (and almost expected) by some folks.

This poll (with a current 198 voters) shows 56% consider the conditions "poor"...and another 26% as only "fair."

So in other words, 82% of the voters think the conditions...are at best "fair to poor."

And save the comments/criticism about this poll only having about 200 people voting, because if you are one of those types...I suggest you're kinda clueless on how polls (ANY poll) actually works/represents in the first place. :oops:

For those that keep making excuses, or trying to say that they're really not bad and folks are just whining/complaining for no reason...just go look at the numbers in this poll.

Obviously, there is a silent majority that don't find the current conditions acceptable...but aren't even bothering to post.

Pretty much verifying, that a lot of folks have come to accept that the "bar"...is now basically laying right on the floor. :ohdear:

I just dont see how anyone can actually say the majority of courses are in acceptable standards.

[Bogie Shooter]

Same story every year...ho hum

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Yep. Waste of time.

[ColdNoMore]

Well, the poll has held pretty darned consistent.


With a current 200 voters, it shows 56% consider the conditions "poor"...and another 26% as only "fair."


Although I'm sure some will anyway, I certainly wouldn't consider those numbers..."something to write home and brag about." :ohdear:

[dewilson58]

But my glass is 1/2 full.............TV is addressing some of the issues and the courses (including the big boy courses) are getting better.


It happens every year.
The courses get bad, the courses get better.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Mikeod]

But my glass is 1/2 full.............TV is addressing some of the issues and the courses (including the big boy courses) are getting better.


It happens every year.
The courses get bad, the courses get better.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Yup. All that’s really transpired is the bad times have moved a couple of months earlier. When they overseeded, green conditions stayed good through early to mid April followed by spotty conditions through May and sometimes into June depending on the weather. The new winter plan didn’t work as well this year so the bad conditions occurred February through March with conditions slowly recovering as the weather warmed. Bermuda grass on the courses needs soil temperature to reach a consistent 55+ degrees or higher to resume growth.

[Northwoods]

But my glass is 1/2 full.............TV is addressing some of the issues and the courses (including the big boy courses) are getting better.


It happens every year.
The courses get bad, the courses get better.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I'm with you. It will take time. My glass is 1/2 full too. Overall... living here... I'm a happy camper...

[Splinter]

I'm with you. It will take time. My glass is 1/2 full too. Overall... living here... I'm a happy camper...
I always thought that the 1/2 full , 1/2 empty folks needed to use a smaller glass .

[penak]

Indeed, very interesting threadhttps://juragan.club/assets/6/o.png