No Fences - whose idea?

[Vinny]

What puzzles me is that I have lived in 13 communities and everyone wanted and had a fence. In fact when I have moved into new developments the first thing the local homeowners did was get together and hire a fencing company to get a better price and to agree who pays for the fence section that divides each home. Of course I live in the north but when I lived in Houston it was the same way. In fact, my neighbors got together to put the fence up for me.

Is the fence ban favored by the residents of the Villages or the developer? I can understand the added cost to maintain property that is fenced as someone has to manually use a weed wacker along every fence line. I can also understand having to look at thousands of white vinyl walls but nice white picket fences about 3-4 foot high with flowers around them look very nice. That is what I have now. Keeps my dogs contained and lets me talk to the neihbors when we are outside together.

What has kept us away from 55+ developments has always been the no fence policy. Luckily TV has CYV homes or that would have been a deal breaker for us, invisible fence or not. Invisible fences do not allow for play dates for our dogs as our family all have dogs that they bring with them and I do not think they would like us shocking their pets.

Just curious as to who is the major opponent of fences. I had asked several developers of 55+ homes in NJ and was told that it was an access and maintenance issue. If every other development can figure out how to build and allow for fences I am leery of that answer.

[redwitch]

No fence communities are actually more popular than you think. I know of several developments in Northern California where fences are banned. The people like the openness, I guess. For the developer, it means more homes on less land (don't have to factor in fencing in yard size).

Whatever. It is what it is. Vinny, you're beginning to sound like a dog worrying a bone. You found your solution -- the CYV. Fences aren't going to happen in most of TV.

[Mallory]

Please, no fences!!!!!!!!!!!

[TrudyM]

We have moved alot and even if you have great neighbors when you move in or you think you do. some people don't wear well, and you have no control over who may move in next door in the future. I think we will end up with a CYV's because of it.

They allow hedges and plantings right??? A well maintained hedge (except for the dog issue and we don't have one) acctually gives more privacy than a fence.

[Xavier]

I can't imagine how ugly it would be here with fencing everywhere. No thanks! We love it just the way it is. CYV are an excellent option. We actually looked at some when we first got serious about buying here. It would have been wonderful for our dog. Then we got thinking - do we really want to buy a home around what would be nice for the dog? It would sort of be like building a house to go with your furniture!

Anyway, welcome to the Villages Vinny!

Xavier

[Bogie Shooter]

no fences.

[salpal]

Sorry Vinny, we bought a CYV because we have a dog. I understand and LIKE the no fence idea. Ever see a neighborhood with 15 different kinds of fences? not pretty! It is what it is. We're all buying into the restrictions, not trying to do away with them. Not trying to be smart, just honest.

[l2ridehd]

Everyone knew the rules before signing on the dotted line. No fences. If you want a fence, buy a CYV or go someplace else. Why do people buy, know what they bought, then try to change it. It is like the people who buy a home next to an airport and then complain about the noise. Maybe we should get a group to try and ban golf carts. :loco: Oh wait, maybe that's why we bought here.

[mulligan]

Also, more than a "rule" it is actually in the deed restrictions, which would require a huge legal effort to change. In the past I have seen a few attempts to do just that, and they all failed.

[graciegirl]

Also, more than a "rule" it is actually in the deed restrictions, which would require a huge legal effort to change. In the past I have seen a few attempts to do just that, and they all failed.

Thank heavens. Those restrictions. I like 'em.

[Carla B]

We're from Houston where they have lots of fences, mostly wood, 6' high. People like the privacy. They can keep not only the dogs but the kids and assorted junk in.

But for us, sans dogs, kids, and only a little junk, a development with fences everywhere would have been a real negative. So, first on our list was NO FENCE! Actually, really first on our list was an expansive water view, and I don't mean a pond. Since we don't have the funds to live on the water that got crossed off. Anyway we're very pleased that TV limits the fencing and keeps the views uncluttered.

[jblum8156]

YOu should remember that your dog, or your neighbor's dog, can't get shocked unless it's wearing a collar. So your neighbor's dog can visit and play with your dogs safely.

[canuk69]

What's a CYV?

[dillywho]

As someone else said, why would you buy into a concept and then start trying to change it? That said, it seems that Vinny is just exploring all his options..not trying to change things. Absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions.

Welcome to TV. Enjoy!:welcome:

[Russ_Boston]

What's a CYV?
Courtyard Villa - they have fences on all sides (either block or vinyl)

[Pturner]

A 3-4 foot fence would keep in some dogs, but many dogs easily could and would jump them. Since I don't need a taller fence for my dog, should I favor short fences and oppose taller ones, even though taller ones would solve the same problem for my neighbors?

Sure, I could justify changing the rules only enough to accommodate my needs by arguing that short fences are prettier than tall fences. But if that's my excuse, no fences is even prettier and more justfied.

Canuk, CYV = Courtyard Villa

[KayakerNC]

Thank heavens. Those restrictions. I like 'em.

And, of course, I see no reason why I should be forced purchase a fence just because somebody moves into the neighborhood with a dog(s).:what:

[Barefoot]

Part of the beauty of The Villages is the expansive stretches of green space.
The Developer knew what he was doing when he outlawed fences! And we all knew about the "no fence" policy before we purchased.

CYVs provide a perfect solution for those wanting privacy or a yard for their dogs.

[Vinny]

No fence communities are actually more popular than you think. I know of several developments in Northern California where fences are banned. The people like the openness, I guess. For the developer, it means more homes on less land (don't have to factor in fencing in yard size).

Whatever. It is what it is. Vinny, you're beginning to sound like a dog worrying a bone. You found your solution -- the CYV. Fences aren't going to happen in most of TV.

Sounds like I am but really am just curious as it is counter to my experience with 8 homes in three states. Maybe it is a NY/NJ thing as one of the reasons we are moving is that through our travels we discovered that people are friendlier outside of our area on the whole. The first time I was in California people kept saying hello to me and being the New Yorker I was, I was very suspcious of them until I discovered that they actually were being nice. I have my solution so I am not worried. Merely curious whether the majoirty of Villages prefer no fences or not. I'll be safe behind my wall. :smiley: Seriously I am a live and let live type of person as long as no one infringes on my rights and as long as the exercise of my rights does not infring upon others, then I am alright with it.

[Vinny]

:22yikes:We have moved alot and even if you have great neighbors when you move in or you think you do. some people don't wear well, and you have no control over who may move in next door in the future. I think we will end up with a CYV's because of it.

They allow hedges and plantings right??? A well maintained hedge (except for the dog issue and we don't have one) acctually gives more privacy than a fence.

I was in this situation once myself and ended up moving after one year after buying the home because I was afraid I would do something that I would regret. If I could have put up a fence it would have solved the problem but it was not allowed. Right now I have great neighbors and we still fence, but use low picket fences so we can see each other and still contain our respective dogs. When we moved into this development we were the only couple with a dog. Now almost everyone has one. I am not saying one view or the other is wrong as we are all free to live where we want but I have never personally met anyone up here in NY/NJ that does not want a fence. In fact, they want the highest one they can get.

I think I know the answer to my question in my case. Every place I lived had houses on top of each other. Sometimes within 10 feet. Although, my inlaws in Ocala live in a development with homes on two acre lots and most are fenced in so I still remain puzzled as to the sharp division of views. No matter because we have the choice in the Villages.

[Vinny]

I can't imagine how ugly it would be here with fencing everywhere. No thanks! We love it just the way it is. CYV are an excellent option. We actually looked at some when we first got serious about buying here. It would have been wonderful for our dog. Then we got thinking - do we really want to buy a home around what would be nice for the dog? It would sort of be like building a house to go with your furniture!

Anyway, welcome to the Villages Vinny!

Xavier

Thanks. Today we ironed out the last of the disputes with our buyers and it is too late for either of us to back out. Like a wise man told me, it is not a problem if money can solve it. We do the opposite of what you do. We picked our home to accommodate our dogs. I even gave up my hobby to do so. Perhaps it is because we never had kids and our dogs are substitutes. Seems to be a common mental disorder but I am sure there are many doctors in TV to help us. ;) Once again, thank you for you welcome.

[Vinny]

Sorry Vinny, we bought a CYV because we have a dog. I understand and LIKE the no fence idea. Ever see a neighborhood with 15 different kinds of fences? not pretty! It is what it is. We're all buying into the restrictions, not trying to do away with them. Not trying to be smart, just honest.

No problem but I do not understand your response. Are you saying that you do not like fences but bought a house because you wanted a fence?????

Anyway, my present development has strict rules about what kind of fence, how high, what color, etc. Even control the color of you home and type of screen door. I can understand why it is not desireable in TV given the large number of homes. I am sitting here in a very small development in-between a farm and horse ranch and you can bet the horse ranch is fenced in.

[Vinny]

Everyone knew the rules before signing on the dotted line. No fences. If you want a fence, buy a CYV or go someplace else. Why do people buy, know what they bought, then try to change it. It is like the people who buy a home next to an airport and then complain about the noise. Maybe we should get a group to try and ban golf carts. :loco: Oh wait, maybe that's why we bought here.

Thanks for your reply but please re-read my post. I am not for fences or trying to change things. I bought a CYV so I could have my preference. In fact, 6 of our homes were subject to strict convenants. I like them. I was just curious because where I have lived everyone wanted to have fences so it is the opposite of what I am used to. If TV did not have the CYV I was prepared to buy elsewhere. I am a big believer is what you said. If you do not like it you do not have to live here. We agree, and also agree that 75,000 fenced in homes would look as bad as 75,000 homes that look the same. :laugh:

One thing I have learned in life is that people are always in favor of regulating things that do not affect them. As you indicated, you would not like them disallowing golf carts. :icon_wink:

[Vinny]

Thank heavens. Those restrictions. I like 'em.
I agree and if you read my post you will see that I am just curious as to why so many people do not want fences as I have lived in 6 CC&R developments where people felt differently about fences. I want the strict regulations which is why I am moving here. We could have gotten a bigger home with a pool and half acre for the same amount we spent in TV. What turned us off was that no matter how ritzy the area, there was always some lawns with burnt grass or clunkers in the driveways. Not for us.

[Vinny]

We're from Houston where they have lots of fences, mostly wood, 6' high. People like the privacy. They can keep not only the dogs but the kids and assorted junk in.

But for us, sans dogs, kids, and only a little junk, a development with fences everywhere would have been a real negative. So, first on our list was NO FENCE! Actually, really first on our list was an expansive water view, and I don't mean a pond. Since we don't have the funds to live on the water that got crossed off. Anyway we're very pleased that TV limits the fencing and keeps the views uncluttered.
I have lived close to the ocean most of my life. After so long it seems normal. Of course living near the ocean in the north is nothing like living in Miami. This will be the furthest away from the ocean we have ever lived. I have spent all my life using bridges to go where I need to go. I see the ocean almost every day of my life. Right now I am 10 minutes from the beach and work two blocks from a river. TV is a big change of sceenary for us. I will probably miss the smell of the ocean and the cry of the seagulls.

[Vinny]

YOu should remember that your dog, or your neighbor's dog, can't get shocked unless it's wearing a collar. So your neighbor's dog can visit and play with your dogs safely.

My family in Ocala and up north have dogs and will be visiting with them. That is what i was refering to.

[Vinny]

As someone else said, why would you buy into a concept and then start trying to change it? That said, it seems that Vinny is just exploring all his options..not trying to change things. Absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions.

Welcome to TV. Enjoy!:welcome:

Finally someone who carefully read my original post. I would not like to see 78,000 fences. I would not move here if that were the case. Just wondering why the opposite view of what I have experienced in the 13 places I have lived.:D

I think that sometimes people read other people's response to a post and then base their reply on that rather than the original post. Either that or I have a serious problem in making myself clear. :(

[Vinny]

Guess I just do not want to be misunderstood like Dr. Pepper. I repeat. I am all in favor of restrictions but I have found in the various places I live that fencing has never been one of them so I wanted to know why it is different here.

I bought a CYV so I have no problems about fences. In fact I forbid you all to put up a fence because I like to see all the open land when I drive around. Now if we could just get those pesky death trap golf carts banned.... :a20:

[K9-Lovers]

Thanks. Today we ironed out the last of the disputes with our buyers and it is too late for either of us to back out. Like a wise man told me, it is not a problem if money can solve it. We do the opposite of what you do. We picked our home to accommodate our dogs. I even gave up my hobby to do so. Perhaps it is because we never had kids and our dogs are substitutes. Seems to be a common mental disorder but I am sure there are many doctors in TV to help us. ;) Once again, thank you for you welcome.

We bought our CYV to accommodate our dogs, too. We've been in TV for a week now and are looking at golf carts now. Of course, we must have a 4 seater, in order to accomodate our dogs. Yup, call me crazy, but I'll never be without canine companionship.:p

[GMONEY]

They allow fences now in Bison Valley, I know that is not TV, but when we bought in there no fences were allowed. Then they started allowing fences on part of the yard, now we got people putting up the vinyl fences around their property line. SO if your neighbors all put a fence, then you are by no choice fenced in. So my question would be.........

Who is responsible for cleaning the the outside of the fence? Me, even it is not my fence. Or the owner of the fence, in that case they would have to come in my yard with pressure washer to clean the thing???

If you start with no fences, then you should not allow them later...... I know some of the people have them for their pets. One of the houses has a fence with dogs and the whole backyard is full of piles of ***&*&*

[senior citizen]

...

[maury]

:welcome: You all are welcome to look at our ranch homes in Hemingway with our white 6 ft. vinyl fences----all inner NASH LOOP. I think we have a great neighborhood and most of us seem to be here for the fences for our dogs. Some of us are nudists and prefer a little backyard privacy also. We seem to pick up our dog @#*T and respect our neighbors. So, some of The Villages work well with fences. I too would have had to buy a CYV for my dog but my great realtor knew about NASH LOOP. Because we have lots of dogs, we all watch out for each other and share a common interest. We dog sit for each other. Fences DO MAKE good neighbors....:icon_wink:

[Vinny]

:welcome: You all are welcome to look at our ranch homes in Hemingway with our white 6 ft. vinyl fences----all inner NASH LOOP. I think we have a great neighborhood and most of us seem to be here for the fences for our dogs. Some of us are nudists and prefer a little backyard privacy also. We seem to pick up our dog @#*T and respect our neighbors. So, some of The Villages work well with fences. I too would have had to buy a CYV for my dog but my great realtor knew about NASH LOOP. Because we have lots of dogs, we all watch out for each other and share a common interest. We dog sit for each other. Fences DO MAKE good neighbors....:icon_wink:
Nudist? In that case I am against all fences. LOL When we were younger we would frequent nude beaches when we travelled. Learned how painful sunburn could be in certain places and that sand can find its way into everywhere. We gave that up when I started to be mistaken for a beached whale. Woke up once to find a group of people trying to push me back in the water. LOL

[senior citizen]

...

[Vinny]

We bought our CYV to accommodate our dogs, too. We've been in TV for a week now and are looking at golf carts now. Of course, we must have a 4 seater, in order to accomodate our dogs. Yup, call me crazy, but I'll never be without canine companionship.:p
I showed my wife some pictures of two seater carts last night and guess what her first question was?

[ajbrown]

I showed my wife some pictures of two seater carts last night and guess what her first question was?

FYI, Fences are allowed on golf carts in TV ;)

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af146/ajbrown2007/Par%20Car%20Dog%20Seat/P1030311.jpg

[K9-Lovers]

I showed my wife some pictures of two seater carts last night and guess what her first question was?

I'll bet Mrs. Vinny said: "Where do our dogs sit????" :confused:

[graciegirl]

"Since a ranch is what we'd prefer when we retire at the end of this year, but also curious as to what village allows the white vinyl fences when others were saying it is not allowed, out of curiousity I typed into the google search engine: trulia the villages florida nash loop resales."


I typed in "the villages florida nash loop resales." and got

NO RESULTS.

[Chuckw]

We have moved alot and even if you have great neighbors when you move in or you think you do. some people don't wear well, and you have no control over who may move in next door in the future. I think we will end up with a CYV's because of it.

They allow hedges and plantings right??? A well maintained hedge (except for the dog issue and we don't have one) acctually gives more privacy than a fence.

Most of the restrictive covenants say that hedges (defined as plantings less than three feet apart which you cannot walk through) are limited in height to 4'.... A four foot high fence does not do much.

Chuck

[senior citizen]

....

[BUC]

Most of the restrictive covenants say that hedges (defined as plantings less than three feet apart which you cannot walk through) are limited in height to 4'.... A four foot high fence does not do much.

Chuck

So it's O.K. to have a 4' hedge installed but not a fence? Solves my fence problem!

[senior citizen]

...

[Vinny]

I'll bet Mrs. Vinny said: "Where do our dogs sit????" :confused:

Yep. She is the leader of the pack.

[Vinny]

Trulia is the website, so type in as follows (into the google search engine)

trulia the villages florida nash loop resales

I printed it out with the photo to show my husband.

Another person on the forum awhile back, I believe a policeman , also directed people to the Florida Sex Offenders Registry. I just printed that out as well.

It's a small percentage compared to the large population in TV, however, I was simply looking for the ranch homes' photos, with the picket fences and what a surprise.
I would think from the offender's point of view that they want to live in a community with as few children as possible to avoid temptation but that probably makes it worse for those with grand children that visit in the Villages. Unfortunately, as I have learned in my 13 moves, you cannot escape the evil element out there. I am every vigilant but that goes hand in hand with being raised in NYC.

[downeaster]

Thank heavens. Those restrictions. I like 'em.

I like them too, GG. Wouldn't have bought here without them. Better yet, they are enforced.

[senior citizen]

...

[villages07]

sr....the 30 and 40 yr olds are most likely adult children living with their parents or grandparents and not property owners.

[senior citizen]

...

[Vinny]

You are correct, however it is interesting what one can find out there.
The good news is that the ratio of residents in The Villages to the number of sex offenders in the registry is 833 to 1.

What surprised me, considering it is a 55+ community, of which 80% (?) should be at least 55 years old.........of the ten listed as living in The Villages, one guy was born in 1969 which would make him 41 years old; another was born in 1960; another in 1974; another in 1972, 1978, 1970 with the remainder being true senior citizens. What goes in TV? Thirty something year old sex offenders are allowed to buy in TV? If one reads the news, many times age is no barrier. It's not always children they go after.

However, it is a small percentage and if one follows the tv news, "kids" today get put on the list simply for texting or sending photos.

The Villages, like all 55+ developments I have looked at, is allowed by law to sell a certain percentage of homes to people less than 55 years of age. It is stated so in my contract. The Villages say it will do it in cases of Hardship as determined by the developer. I imagine if a husband dies and his trophy wife is under 30, she would be allowed to stay. :D

[eweissenbach]

The Villages, like all 55+ developments I have looked at, is allowed by law to sell a certain percentage of homes to people less than 55 years of age. It is stated so in my contract. The Villages say it will do it in cases of Hardship as determined by the developer. I imagine if a husband dies and his trophy wife is under 30, she would be allowed to stay. :D

How about if my wife dies? - I am her trophy husband!

[graciegirl]

Here is a link. I don't know how current it is but there are ten listed in The Villages.

http://www.homefacts.com/offenders/Florida/Sumter-County/The-Villages.html

[senior citizen]

...

[Russ_Boston]

I found it. I'd have to have a conversation with that guy before I bought next to him.

[Chi-Town]

Beware of Laurel Bay Ln. (Lynnhaven?) Neighboring sex offenders. How cozy.

[duffysmom]

Chi town, you are so right. There are two sex offenders in their 30's living side by side in two separate residences on Laurel Bay Lane. One was convicted of having sex with a child under 12.:boxing2: When you think about it, TV is a good place to hide. My question is how close to a school can these vermin live?

[MelZ]

How come none of the offenders are female, looks like discrimination to me?
:a040::a040:

Before you Flame me

That was a joke..

[army one]

How did this get so far off the original topic?

[l2ridehd]

Beacuse all the female sex offenders are in high demand by all the old geezer perverts. :a040:

[Pturner]

How did this get so far off the original topic?

What were we were talking about before?

[GMONEY]

would take to long to go back and look,,,, Delete the whole thread and start over might be the easiest thing.... from fences to sex offenders, what a deal

[florlrl]

I'm all for fencing and anything we as owners can do to change the dumb restrictions would be great. I appreciate the privacy and, in fact, it would save a lot of complaints about dog walkers in the neighborhood if home OWNERS not the developer decided what they wanted on their property.

[l2ridehd]

If you really feel that way, why did you buy here? The rules were set long before you arrived and you knew what they were. That just makes no sense to me. There are thousands of other places where you can put a fence around your property. Go there. When you look for a place to buy, look at the rules, the restrictions, the way it is set up. If you like what they offer, great. But if you don't, go someplace else. Don't buy and then try to change it, or complain about what they are. I just do not understand when someone thinks that way.

[Fourpar]

...what 12rdhrd said!:agree:

[Pturner]

I'm all for fencing and anything we as owners can do to change the dumb restrictions would be great. I appreciate the privacy and, in fact, it would save a lot of complaints about dog walkers in the neighborhood if home OWNERS not the developer decided what they wanted on their property.

Hi Florlrl,
For the most part, I think home OWNERS did decide when we chose to live in a community with strict deed restrictions. They help preserve the gorgeous panaroma that is TV.

Deed restrictions are such big factor (most of us think benefit) of TV, that it is hard to understand why anyone opposed to them would choose to live here. Not only did we agreed to the deed restrictions when we purchased, the developer and CDD's agreed to enforce them.

Many people do think deed restrictions are dumb, so they live in communities that don't have them. Is it right to move to a community where they are promised to everyone for the beauty of the total community, and then seek to have them overturned?

[mulligan]

Back in the day, all horses were supposed to look the same. Along came someone who wanted to change the design, a committee was formed, and the result was a camel. You want to talk about ugly??

[KayakerNC]

If you really feel that way, why did you buy here? The rules were set long before you arrived and you knew what they were. That just makes no sense to me. There are thousands of other places where you can put a fence around your property. Go there. When you look for a place to buy, look at the rules, the restrictions, the way it is set up. If you like what they offer, great. But if you don't, go someplace else. Don't buy and then try to change it, or complain about what they are. I just do not understand when someone thinks that way.

:agree:

[GMONEY]

If you really feel that way, why did you buy here? The rules were set long before you arrived and you knew what they were. That just makes no sense to me. There are thousands of other places where you can put a fence around your property. Go there. When you look for a place to buy, look at the rules, the restrictions, the way it is set up. If you like what they offer, great. But if you don't, go someplace else. Don't buy and then try to change it, or complain about what they are. I just do not understand when someone thinks that way.

:agree: :agree: :bowdown:

[BUC]

Change is part of life, a person has a right to try to change rules that they disagree with, But elling someone to live someplace else is rude.

[graciegirl]

Change is part of life, a person has a right to try to change rules that they disagree with, But elling someone to live someplace else is rude.

The posts explaining that the restrictions are in place here when you consider choosing a retirement home were stated clearly and strongly worded but I don't think that they were meant to be rude.

We have lived in areas with a lot of restrictions for many years and find that it works for us and we are used to it. I think that the people who most want fences are the dog owners but I see that many, many people successfully and happily own dogs here. So just as in any other decision, it is wise to gather as much information as possible first.

Or.............as the old saying goes. "Marry in haste. Repent at leisure".

And Buc...I agree that we live in a free country, where we can try to effect change if we want, but this little bit of it is a benign dictatorship.

Long live the Morses!

[Army Guy]

If you really feel that way, why did you buy here? The rules were set long before you arrived and you knew what they were. That just makes no sense to me. There are thousands of other places where you can put a fence around your property. Go there. When you look for a place to buy, look at the rules, the restrictions, the way it is set up. If you like what they offer, great. But if you don't, go someplace else. Don't buy and then try to change it, or complain about what they are. I just do not understand when someone thinks that way.

Totally Agree! If you want fences buy a CYV like we did for our dog. But otherwise NO FENCES in TV!!

Army Guy

[zcaveman]

Totally Agree! If you want fences buy a CYV like we did for our dog. But otherwise NO FENCES in TV!!

Army Guy


Well said Army Guy!!! :agree:

I don't understand people buying into a community that has rules and restrictions and wanting to change them for their own good. We moved here knowing these rules and restrictions existed and we were happy with them - at least most of them. But we can live with all of them.

[BUC]

Totally Agree! If you want fences buy a CYV like we did for our dog. But otherwise NO FENCES in TV!!

Army Guy

Not everyone can buy a CYV.

[Army Guy]

ok, BUC, you peeked my interest, why can't everyone who wants one, buy a CYV?

Army Guy

[Barefoot]

Not everyone can buy a CYV.

I just edited out a stupid comment I made.

[BobKat1]

For a variety of reasons, it could be a budget issue for some.

[Army Guy]

Besides Patio/Cottage homes, CYVs are the most affordable homes TV sells. If you get a Keys Style CYV, the price pretty much equals a Patio/Cottage.

Army Guy

[TrudyM]

Well said Army Guy!!! :agree:

I don't understand people buying into a community that has rules and restrictions and wanting to change them for their own good. We moved here knowing these rules and restrictions existed and we were happy with them - at least most of them. But we can live with all of them.

Just because someone wonders why something is a certain way it doesn’t mean they are attacking your decision or any ones for that matter. :undecided:

QUOTE: Army Guy;262927 ok, BUC, you peeked my interest, why can't everyone who wants one, buy a CYV?

If you look at re-sales sold and compare days on the market of, Colony Patio homes and Keys Marathon homes in the same village the Marathon with the walls sold in much less time. I assume this means that on the average at least with those looking at more compact units people like walls.

If you compare a new Colony Patio and a Keys Marathon in Pennecamp with similar size lots the Marathon is $20,300 more. That is a lot of money for fencing. The assumption is that the market will bear the increase ie people will pay more for a fenced lot:cool:


On an aside I personally don’t get the white picket fences in front of the Colony Patio homes they are just across the front and don’t enclose anything. I guess they look cute but seem a little strange to me. ( I am not criticizing don’t jump down my throat ):duck:

[BUC]

ok, BUC, you peeked my interest, why can't everyone who wants one, buy a CYV?

Army Guy

I can buy a house on the Historical side for $100,000 or less, a CYV cost several 1000s more, or does that make me an undesireable. I really hope not because I really want to live in the T.V.

[Bogie Shooter]

I can buy a house on the Historical side for $100,000 or less, a CYV cost several 1000s more, or does that make me an undesireable. I really hope not because I really want to live in the T.V.
A villager is a villager is a villager!

[Indy-Guy]

There are around 40,000 homes in The Villages lets say around 10,000 are Villas so lets say around 30,000 homes that were purchased by people who decided at the time of purchase that they didn't need to have a fence. So for them lack of a fence was not a deal breaker. It looks to me like 99% of those roughly 30,000 homes don't feel they need fences and are very happy with what they have.

For me this place looks great without fences and I feel comfortable knowing that that will not change.

[golfnut]

army guy, not sure we'll be able to explain this one, I would like to buy a motorhome and can afford a Winnebago, but can someone explain to me why I can't buy a Prevost....gn

[Pturner]

Ok, it's time to mend fences.

[golfnut]

no fences (except in CYV's and on Nash Loop).....gn

[zcaveman]

Just because someone wonders why something is a certain way it doesn’t mean they are attacking your decision or any ones for that matter. :undecided:

They are not wondering. They want the restriction changed.

They should buy a CYV if they want a fence.

It is that simple.

[Army Guy]

I can buy a house on the Historical side for $100,000 or less, a CYV cost several 1000s more, or does that make me an undesireable. I really hope not because I really want to live in the T.V.

Buc, no you are not undesireable! As Bogie said, a villager is a villager! I understand about affordability and what each can and can't do. I just didn't understand why you said why some couldn't buy a CYV at first, I was not thinking along cost lines. Just thinking availability. We are going through that now with looking for a place at TV for my folks. Weighing cost vs desires and also their needs.

Army Guy

[Rag Bagger]

It seems to me that the people that don't want a villa with a fenced/walled area don't like them because they look like a confined area complete with walls/fences. But yet they want us all to have our yards fenced or at least be able to fence off their little piece of the earth. No thanks. No fences untill I die. What a mess it would be if we all had fenced off lots.
If you have a pet you should be in the yard with it anyhow and not abandon the poor babe in the FENCED yard.

[cats12470]

We agree... we would not buy if they allowed fences... and yes, everyone knows ahead of signing.... what they are signing....
Enjoy the beauty of the Villages....

[graciegirl]

With the summer heat beating down, and the walls kind of capturing it, I would think that the yards that are enclosed with a wall would be hot without a breeze blowing through them.

[BUC]

It's O.K. but please don't get mad and yell at me when I'm walking my dog, if he pees on the county Right of way in front of someones yard (not on private property) and if someone yells at my wife, then that will lead to a totally different discussion, from me!

[BarbaraT]

:pepper2:
I am new here to this board. I can't get my picture up, but anyway
I have been breeding toy poodles for 35 years and always had fences!
I am moving down to the historic area (Lady Lake-Villages) soon with two toy poodles. Is there a rule against putting out a portable pen just long enough for them to go, clean up and take it back in again?

:shrug: Does someone have a link to all the rules? I would like to look at them, PLEASE!:bowdown:

Thanks in advance.
In South Ocala,
BarbaraT

[Russ_Boston]

I believe this is the deed restriction for the 'historic' district:
http://www.districtgov.org/images/DeedRestiction/lake/L-1-2-3.pdf

If not then other Lake County deeds docs are here:
http://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/deedrestrict-LakeCounty.aspx

[ptownrob]

I'm glad we don't have fences- it also makes our small lots look more spacious. I look at CYV's and think of exercise pens inside of max. security prisons. Huge walls for a little piece of "MY" land? No Thanks.

There are plenty of places in Florida where you can have a fence- but don't expect it to be as open or friendly as your neighborhood in the Villages.

[BUC]

I guess it's O.K to have a hedge up to 4'that works just as good as a fence. Sorry about my comment yesterday (just fustrated)

[Army Guy]

BUC, you are ok, we still love ya! We all get emotional about things now and then, God knows I have!
This fence thing all boils down to one fact.....Before you buy, you are given the rules. If you don't like them, don't buy, don't buy with the intent you cange them changed. Remember, TV is bascially a "private, owner controlled stand alone city" it is not like the town/city you moved from. That is why you are given the "rules" before you sign! A little Stepfordish? Yes kinda, but it is what we who own there want and like!

Army Guy

[mulligan]

Your real estate agent should supply complete deed restrictions prior to closing, Part of his(her) job IMHO. Also, I believe this a legal requirement.

[graciegirl]

I don't think I remember our Villages agent telling us about the restrictions. He answered when we asked a specific question about anything. We did know about them because on our "drink the Koolaid" visit with friends, when they took us to Orange Blossom Hills restaurant for dinner, we noted that there were a lot of lawn ornaments on the older side and we discussed it then with our hosts and about the difference and tightening of restrictions as the area grew and moved south.

You may be right and it may be required by Florida disclosure laws, or they may be different from Ohio and I just don't remember hearing it, or Sweetie may have been told not in my hearing or I may have signed a paper with all of the details at closing...but I don't recall doing so.

Are disclosure laws consistent across the United States?

Because we have deed restrictions in our development in Cincinnati that are very similar to those in The Villages, I really didn't give it much thought.

I know I like those restrictions very much.

How did those folks get by the restrictions painting that house such a BRIGHT BLUE up near Glenview Country Club??????

[mulligan]

Probably with a roller

[Army Guy]

Probably with a roller

If stucco, I hope they used a roller with the thick nap.


Army Guy

[zcaveman]

Actually the blue house is not that bad. I think it was a case of the colors in the brochure looked okay but what ended up on the house was a little brighter when spread over that big of an area.

[graciegirl]

Actually the blue house is not that bad. I think it was a case of the colors in the brochure looked okay but what ended up on the house was a little brighter when spread over that big of an area.

Oh Z. I have to disagree with you for the very first time.:p:wave:

[jblum8156]

I'll be so glad when this silly thread is done. The only sensible answer is if you don't want to live with restrictions, choose someplace else to live.

[Barefoot]

I'll be so glad when this silly thread is done. The only sensible answer is if you don't want to live with restrictions, choose someplace else to live.

Jblum, if you find this thread silly, perhaps you should pass it up and head over to Political. They're not silly over there, but they may use you for a dart board. :laugh:

[graciegirl]

Jblum, if you find this thread silly, perhaps you should pass it up and head over to Political. They're not silly over there, but they may use you for a dart board. :laugh:

Bare, you are so right as usual. I have foolishly ventured over there twice in the past week. I must be losing my mind. Tony? The next time you see me post in political, just remove the post.

[tony]

If we did that, Gracie, there would be people whistling and prancing about censorship. Right?:icon_wink:

[Pturner]

I thought that in addition to no fences, TV had no school-yard bullies, given that it's an age-restricted community. Imagine my surprise when I've peeked into Political. OMG

[Russ_Boston]

Yep. Haven't and won't be joining the political forum. The best thing the admins did was require separate admission to that jungle!

[GMONEY]

Yep. Haven't and won't be joining the political forum. The best thing the admins did was require separate admission to that jungle!

:agree: :agree:

[memason]

Where is the political forum? I'd like to take a look, just so I know what everyone is talking about.

Thanks....

[ajbrown]

Where is the political forum? I'd like to take a look, just so I know what everyone is talking about.

Thanks....

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/profile.php?do=editusergroups

I have been lurking there and it can be quite "entertaining":)

[Army Guy]

memason, before you go into the political board you may want to borrow my body armor and Kevlar Helmet!

Army Guy

[nniles]

Last year, when I was looking at model homes in the south, they were experimenting with having fences with new houses. Don't know what happened to that idea. It still may exist.

[Russ_Boston]

They did an experiment on/around Nash Loop regarding ranch style homes with vinyl fences.

My agent told me that it wasn't a rousing success. She doesn't think the idea will return anytime soon.

[macro]

I can buy a house on the Historical side for $100,000 or less, a CYV cost several 1000s more, or does that make me an undesireable. I really hope not because I really want to live in the T.V.

When I was looking at TV, I looked at the options of new and pre-owned and different locations in the villages. Granted, maybe the newest manufactured home is over 20 years old but then, I don't buy a lot of really green bananas anymore either. (Not enough time left to wait for them to ripen.) Price was also a consideration. As far as restrictions are concerned, I've been in places they were worse. (without the cameraderie and ambience of TV) My lot size is just about right for me to 'putter around' in and enhance (or not) without consuming all my spare time and cash. If there is something didn't like that the previous owner did, I can change it, at my leisure. Personally, I think the few retrictions are reasonable and appropriate (disappointed I won't be able to put out those 200 pink flamingos I thought were standard in FL) . The only people that might be considered 'undesireable' are like those who buy property cheap at the end of the runway and then complain about the low-flying planes and want them to fly somewhere else. BUC I think you will be welcome anywhere in TV. Exceptional group of people. Another plus to pre-owned, close on the property and move in. No waiting for contractors to finish up. Also on Historical side, a lot of turn-key properties.

[cloglova]

Hi
I have purchased a home in The Villages, and will be closing on it in August. I have a beautiful, wonderful Bichon who is used to my backyard at my current house. He must go in and out of my home at least a dozen times a day, and loves the freedom of the yard with a fence enclosure. He is not a walker, and I don't really know how to handle his exercise outdoors, if a fence is not allowed. I would appreciate any suggestion you could offer. Are "bird cages" the answer. Where can I go to have one constructed as an extension to my lanai? Thanks for your help.
Clotilde and Roy

[mulligan]

It would probably work out best if you stayed at the house and had the work done there.

[Barefoot]

Hi
I have purchased a home in The Villages, and will be closing on it in August. I have a beautiful, wonderful Bichon who is used to my backyard at my current house. He must go in and out of my home at least a dozen times a day, and loves the freedom of the yard with a fence enclosure. He is not a walker, and I don't really know how to handle his exercise outdoors, if a fence is not allowed. I would appreciate any suggestion you could offer. Are "bird cages" the answer. Where can I go to have one constructed as an extension to my lanai? Thanks for your help.
Clotilde and Roy

A courtyard villa would have provided a fenced backyard for your Bichon. So I assume you've purchased a house and not a villa.

If you want your dog to have access to your back yard in order to go to the bathroom, then the solution is invisible fencing. We used Dog Watch for our invisible fencing and are extremely pleased. (I always hated the idea of invisible fencing but it has worked extremely well and our dogs react to the warning beep, they don't get corrections.) There are other threads on TOTV discussing Invisible Fencing (see the search button above).

If you want your dog to have more room to roam, then a birdcage would do the trick. We had our large birdcage built by Whites Aluminum and we recommend them highly. However a birdcage must have a concrete floor so you can't use one as a dog bathroom.

Congratulations on your home purchase, you'll love living in The Bubble!

[English Ivy]

Hi
I have purchased a home in The Villages, and will be closing on it in August. I have a beautiful, wonderful Bichon who is used to my backyard at my current house. He must go in and out of my home at least a dozen times a day, and loves the freedom of the yard with a fence enclosure. He is not a walker, and I don't really know how to handle his exercise outdoors, if a fence is not allowed. I would appreciate any suggestion you could offer. Are "bird cages" the answer. Where can I go to have one constructed as an extension to my lanai? Thanks for your help.
Clotilde and Roy

Welcome to The Villages! We have a westie and have solved the issue of going outside by placing a stake in the ground right outside the lanai door. To that we attached one of those outdoor dog leads which my husband cut to length to keep her only on our lawn (our backyard is narrow). When she wants to go out we just hook her up and let her go. She's got enough room to sniff around and find the "perfect" place to use. She also enjoys laying and rolling in the grass or sunning on the warm concrete. And this is a dog who up north had the run of a 1/2 acre yard which was protected with invisible fence. She got used to a new routine with no problem.

Although you said your dog is not a walker be careful if you do take him for any walks. The pavement here is extremely hot in the summer.

[zcaveman]

A However a birdcage must have a concrete floor so you can't use one as a dog bathroom.

I have seen bird cages with a grass floor and a doggie door to let the dog outside when ever he wants to go out. There is one on Churchill Greens. I have also seen a birdcage with a special room with a grass floor for the pets. It had its own door so they could put their two dogs out and leave them out there.

[Bogie Shooter]

I have seen bird cages with a grass floor and a doggie door to let the dog outside when ever he wants to go out. There is one on Churchill Greens. I have also seen a birdcage with a special room with a grass floor for the pets. It had its own door so they could put their two dogs out and leave them out there.
Artificial grass would be a good idea.

[Vinny]

We have since moved into a corner lot CYV since I first wrote the original post. The backyard is bigger than the one in my old home and my two children, I mean doggies, love it. Funny thing is that we spent more than planned to get a lot with alot of grass for them only to find that they do not like walking on the type of rough grass here. They are doing their thing on the rocks I put down where the straw used to be. So now I have all this grass that nobody uses and that I have to pay someone to mow. I could have saved myself dome money had I known. :shrug:

[Pturner]

Hi
I have purchased a home in The Villages, and will be closing on it in August. I have a beautiful, wonderful Bichon who is used to my backyard at my current house. He must go in and out of my home at least a dozen times a day, and loves the freedom of the yard with a fence enclosure. He is not a walker, and I don't really know how to handle his exercise outdoors, if a fence is not allowed. I would appreciate any suggestion you could offer. Are "bird cages" the answer. Where can I go to have one constructed as an extension to my lanai? Thanks for your help.
Clotilde and Roy

Welcome to TV and TOTV! I know you will love it here. An electric fence is probably your best bet. You might also be interested to know that there is a free dog park in TV in the Village of Springdale where you can bring your dog off leash for exercize and socializing. It has separate areas for large and small dogs. It's a great place to meet other dog owners. There's also a popular commercial dog park nearby called Doggie Do Run Run.

Congratulations on your new home and life in TV. All best wishes!

[Barefoot]

I have seen bird cages with a grass floor and a doggie door to let the dog outside when ever he wants to go out. There is one on Churchill Greens. I have also seen a birdcage with a special room with a grass floor for the pets. It had its own door so they could put their two dogs out and leave them out there.

Caveman, I had heard that such birdcages existed, with grass floors. And I enquired about them earlier this year as we were adding another large birdcage with a concrete floor; and I thought we might also add a separate little cage for the dogs with a grass floor.

We were recently told by a couple of different construction companies that The Villages will not approve a birdcage with a grass floor, even though they did it in the past. And that the floors must be concrete. Perhaps the "rules" have changed.

I suppose you could put down artificial grass on top of the concrete as Bogie suggested.

[Russ_Boston]

First let me say that I'm not a dog owner.

Why would anyone want dog smells in their lanai? You can pick up the solids but the urine will still smell. Yes?

[Army Guy]

Right on Russ!

Army Guy

[BUC]

Fences don't hurt anyone and should be up to the homeowner. IMO

[Bogie Shooter]

No fences.

[Army Guy]

AGREE! NO FENCES!

Army Guy

[otherbruddaDarrell]

Fences don't hurt anyone and should be up to the homeowner. IMO

I agree!.........................as long as it is not in TV.:boxing2:

[graciegirl]

NO FENCES. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Bogie Shooter]

First let me say that I'm not a dog owner.

Why would anyone want dog smells in their lanai? You can pick up the solids but the urine will still smell. Yes?
If you want to know how it smells.....linger at your postal station.

[Fourpar]

No Fences! Get an electric (underground) fence put in and you and pooch can be happy...and the neighbors as well! :welcome:

[Russ_Boston]

If you want to know how it smells.....linger at your postal station.


Oh, I know what it smells like!

[Barefoot]

First let me say that I'm not a dog owner. Why would anyone want dog smells in their lanai? You can pick up the solids but the urine will still smell. Yes?

I can never resist a thread on dog doo. :doggie:

I suppose that someone would put down rocks in the doggie birdcage and hose them off several times a day. Just a guess. But I agree that idea is not an attractive idea at all. And it would probably only occur to people who are desperate for ways to contain their pets.

When my spouse made it know that he wanted to sell our Courtyard Villa and move to a larger house with a huge garage, I was desolate. I never, ever thought I'd be a fan of invisible fencing. I thought it was inhumane and cruel.

But I've found the Invisible Fencing works very well and has exceeded my expectations. Even when ducks waddle up from the pond in back of our house and taunt the dogs, they don't go through the boundary. They hear a beep from their collar, they don't need a correction. The guy from Dog Watch was great. He helped us train the dogs and did follow-up visits regularly. And the dogs are not confined to a small area, they can use the whole yard. (Also, I take them daily to the dog park for some real exercise).

[villages07]

Bare.... slightly off topic...but, when you return to the bubble in October, will you have to re-train the pups on the electric fence?

[Barefoot]

Bare.... slightly off topic...but, when you return to the bubble in October, will you have to re-train the pups on the electric fence?

Good question and I've wondered about that myself. I'm almost positive the dogs will remember the boundaries. As soon as I arrive, I'll do a refresher course with the collars that beep, no current.

I've found that animals can remember anything important to them. After six months in exile, my Himalyan cat (almost 18) can remember exactly where I feed her. I feed her in the bathroom, away from the dogs. When we arrive at our house in TV, she immediately goes into the bathroom and sits and stares at the empty floor until I put her food down.

[chuckinca]

Our two year old kittens do the same (in the kitchen).

.

[jblum8156]

Oh do they ever remember routines. My husband used to take our Gordon Setter with him into the hardware store in NY. One day Angus found a doughnut that someone had left on a rear counter. For years after, he made a beeline to that counter.

[Boomer]

When I saw the discussion here had turned to Invisible Fence, I looked back, way deep, to find something I wrote a few months ago. At that time our dog Annie was nearing her 16th birthday which we think was sometime in April. At the time Annie showed up at our back door, the vet was able to get a really good guess at her age. He said her teeth looked like she was approximately 5 months old. She showed up in September. On a full moon. I thought about naming her Moondoggie but decided Annie was a better name for her.

Annie is now past her 16th birthday by a few months. We took her to the vet the other day for a checkup and he gave her a good look-over and listen-to and then he just shook his head and smiled. Even though her mobility issues are getting a little worse and she is completely deaf and has been for a couple of years, her heart and lungs and attitude have not changed. She is a beautiful dog, if I do say so myself. When people ask me what kind of dog she is, I always say, "Annie is Nature's Finest Genetic Engineering."

Anyway, I am going to do a repeat story here. (I have been telling you stories for a long, long time and every now and then, I have to do a repeat so just close your eyes if you have already read this one.) But for those who have not and who are considering Invisible Fence, here is Annie's story.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Annie and the Invisible Fence


About that Invisible Fence....I think our Invisible Fence probably saved Annie's life -- or lifestyle, for sure. (As I write this, Annie is here beside me, sleeping at my feet, and probably dreaming about what she would like to have for her 16th birthday, coming sometime in April -- we think.)

Annie showed up at our back door one day in early September of 1994. We tried to find her owner. We put the "Found Dog" notices in mailboxes and on phone poles and in the newspaper.

And then, after a few days of all that trying to do the right thing, we got worried that somebody might claim her. She was our dog. We knew.

She came to us housebroken, calm, sweet, loved kids, and knew what a refrigerator was. Annie was somebody else's dog first. But she had run away from them. How? Why? We never found out for sure. But we soon developed a theory.

(There is a line in the play Sylvia where the dog says to the man who finds her when she is lost, "There are some things about me that you will just never know." -- and that is what Annie said to us.)

We named her Annie because she was an orphan when she arrived.

As we got to know Annie better, she soon revealed her secret vice. Even though she never got bigger than about 35 pounds, she has always had big ideas. Annie chased deer. Herds of deer. Bucks and does and fawns. Whatever. She chased them.

And at that time, we lived on a few acres with a woods in the back. Annie knew the deer's schedule and she waited and watched and ran after them. Mr. Boomer would chase after her. She was fast. (We were all a lot younger then.)

One day, Mr. Boomer, in pursuit, was in a clearing just to the north of our woods, when out of those trees came a thundering herd of whitetail deer. Nine of them. The herd split, 4 on one side, 5 on the other, ran right around Mr. Boomer. Geez! And following behind, in hot pursuit, was Annie. Running like a deer herself. She could not catch any of those deer, though she was barking threats of what she would do to them if she did.

Finally, Mr. Boomer caught her when she quite simply ran out of steam -- for that chase anyway.

That was when we decided to spend the money to fence an acre with Invisible Fence.

Had Annie lost her first home because of her vice of chasing deer -- for who knows how many miles? Well, she won't tell us for sure. But we do know that we would have lost her eventually. And that she might have ended up dead or with somebody who would not take good care of her.

And so Annie spent a lot of years, watching for those deer. If she was in the yard, she would chase after them by running just inside the perimeter. From her safe position, she could shout her threats to those deer at a distance. Annie has always been a lady but where those deer were concerned, I heard her say things like, "If I did not have this :censored::censored: collar with this :censored: battery around my neck, I would come after you and I would kick your :censored::censored: asses, every last one!"

Several years ago, Annie and Mr. Boomer and I downsized to our geezer ranch-style house with the small yard. We put in Invisible Fence again.

Now, Annie is old, really old. She sniffs the trail where maybe a whitetail has passed through in the night But she does not run anymore. Not much anyway. But she still wears that collar with the battery pack. She wears it proudly. And I think I hear her, every once in a while, out there in the yard, shouting, "If I did not have to wear this :censored: collar with the battery, I would chase you :censored: deer and I would so kick your :censored: asses!"

(That Invisible Fence gave us all these years with Annie. I just know it.)

Boomer

[BUC]

Great story, Annie sounds like a good dog. i think I've been convinced that invisible fence won't harm my dogs. I can tell that you love Annie and want what's best for her! Thank you

[Vinny]

Just to follow-up I bought a CYV on a large corner premier lot. Not only do my doggies have a lot of land to run around in but we have great privacy too!. Only one neighbor and he is only here a few months a year and does not rent. Just added another 12x17 bird cage with a doggie door for my kids, er, I mean dogs. :wave:

[jblum315]

This fence discussion keeps coming up, over and over. I don't understand why people complain about something that's written in to the basis of the community. If fences are so important, go where there are fences. I hate the look of fences.

[Nester47]

Got to love fences & courtyard villa walls.......that gives folks enough privacy to run around in their birthday suits.... ;-)

[Barefoot]

Got to love fences & courtyard villa walls.......that gives folks enough privacy to run around in their birthday suits.... ;-)

Yeah, but in TV peoples birthday suits are so wrinklied that they look like clothes. :D

[Trish Crocker]

I am so happy there are no fences in the Villages. Here in Michigan, almost all of the new subdivisions (and our entire city) have No Fence rules. It looks so much better, to see expanses of land not marred by ugly fences. Sure, it's possible to envision pretty, clean fences but the reality is, it wouldn't be long before it looks like a mess.

[rubicon]

Like many of us I have moved around the country. I have lived where folks used shubbery and trees to create natural barrier and I have lived where a neighbor will literally slap a chain link fence up against a six foot wood panel fence. Guess which location had the friendlier and more caring neighbors and which neighborhood didn't even know the names of the people who live on their street?

[TednRobin]

I love my CYV. If we didn't have a dog I might think differently.

[Pturner]

Yeah, but in TV peoples birthday suits are so wrinklied that they look like clothes. :D

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::clap2:

[The Villager II]

Regardless who thought it was a good idea, no fence would be the popular vote hands down.

[jblum315]

:highfive:If TV allowed fences they would probably have to allow Pink Flamingos in the front yard. No thanks!!

[Moderator]

Closed thread . Over two years old.