Slow play

[advp007]

In today’s Daily Sun Steve Trivett wrote an article about slow play. He is 100% correct about it ruining the game of golf. Until the local courses start enforcing pace of play it will only get worse with the additional population. We are constantly told that ambassadors are not allowed to enforce pace of play for fear of upsetting someone. The unfortunate consequence is that everyone behind the slow players gets upset. Please consider this when playing.

[alwann]

Are you referring to championship or executive courses? It has been my experience that they may enforce pace of play on the championship courses, although not all ambassadors do it. Executive courses, maybe not. Often those courses are so chockablock that there is no benefit to encouraging a group to pick up the pace. Raking bunkers and repairing ball marks are different issues, and I wish the executive course ambassadors would deal with this. When the greens are healthy, that is. Right now, fixing ball marks makes little difference.

[JoeandSue]

It is certainly frustrating for people play at normal speed to watch players spend time on the green like it is the pga championship. And then after everyone has putted stand and talk about how bad or great they played that hole, and move at a snails pace back to the cart, slowly replacing clubs in to the bag, and then visit some more, and finally go on to the next hole. All this being done without ever looking back to see if they are holding anybody up. We have shortened our rounds several times just because of this.

[ColdNoMore]

Until there are REAL consequences for slow play, starting at the professional level...it will be a lost cause.

Since I don't play the exec's, I can't speak for them, but I have yet to EVER see a championship course ambassador...move a slow group up.

Even with two holes in front of them open, it's usually a "well, they're on time"...or some other inane comment. :oops:

There are so many ways to play quicker, without rushing your actual shot. It starts with the idea that getting your azz out of the cart, grabbing the club you think you'll need, with one more and one less, walking over to your ball and then playing ready golf...is NOT against the rules.

And then there's the group that needs a union meeting to gather around and watch each player hit their ball.

And then there's the ones who can't trust their memory from the green to the next tee, so must write everyone's score (after yelling to confirm) at their cart...which they've parked too close to the green in the first place.

And then............ :mad:


If everyone would simply follow the old adage that "your place on the course is right behind the group in front of you, not just ahead of the group behind you"...things would get instantly better. :ohdear:

[dewilson58]

Posting here won't help.


I've tried to get a second pickle on my cheeseburger and it hasn't happened yet.

[JoMar]

At our club up north we were expected to finish a round in 4:15. That was the bar, not the group in front. The group in front could be a threesome, could consist of low handicap players or any other variable. We were expected to be on time and were told to move up to get on time. If we didn't, their were consequences up to and including suspension. When someone was recommended to join the club they had a face to face with the pro who explained what was expected by everyone on the course. The rangers (they weren't ambassadors) were not hesitant to enforce. Until that happens here, at least at some level, slow play will be part of The Villages golf

[billethkid]

At our club up north we were expected to finish a round in 4:15. That was the bar, not the group in front. The group in front could be a threesome, could consist of low handicap players or any other variable. We were expected to be on time and were told to move up to get on time. If we didn't, their were consequences up to and including suspension. When someone was recommended to join the club they had a face to face with the pro who explained what was expected by everyone on the course. The rangers (they weren't ambassadors) were not hesitant to enforce. Until that happens here, at least at some level, slow play will be part of The Villages golf

Maybe "slow play" in TV is a function of retirement status and relative age.

[dewilson58]

Maybe "slow play" in TV is a function of retirement status and relative age.




A lot of truth.

[drcar]

Until there are REAL consequences for slow play, starting at the professional level...it will be a lost cause.

Since I don't play the exec's, I can't speak for them, but I have yet to EVER see a championship course ambassador...move a slow group up.

Even with two holes in front of them open, it's usually a "well, they're on time"...or some other inane comment. :oops:

There are so many ways to play quicker, without rushing your actual shot. It starts with the idea that getting your azz out of the cart, grabbing the club you think you'll need, with one more and one less, walking over to your ball and then playing ready golf...is NOT against the rules.

And then there's the group that needs a union meeting to gather around and watch each player hit their ball.

And then there's the ones who can't trust their memory from the green to the next tee, so must write everyone's score (after yelling to confirm) at their cart...which they've parked too close to the green in the first place.

And then............ :mad:


If everyone would simply follow the old adage that "your place on the course is right behind the group in front of you, not just ahead of the group behind you"...things would get instantly better. :ohdear:

Pace of play has 2 factors, on time and position. You can have 2 holes open in front of you and still be on time. Maybe open tee times, maybe 2 somes or 3 somes. The pace is NOT determined by how fast you play but by the clock. A group can be on time or a couple minute behind but the group behind can be fast players. Also ambassadors have far more ability then you may think, but there are many factors. We are retired, take a chill pill.

[anothersteve]

You can moan and groan about slow play on execs all you want, but nothing will change. There are just too many people playing. Deal with it.
Steve

[Mikeod]

You can moan and groan about slow play on execs all you want, but nothing will change. There are just too many people playing. Deal with it.
Steve

True. An ambassador (clearly frustrated) once told us that by the time a group is obviously behind and he tells them to speed up or close the gap in front, they are usually 4-5 holes into their round. When he checks on them later, even if they did speed up, they are almost done with their round. He felt he was accomplishing nothing but hopes they remember the advice next time.

[DonH57]

Pace of play has 2 factors, on time and position. You can have 2 holes open in front of you and still be on time. Maybe open tee times, maybe 2 somes or 3 somes. The pace is NOT determined by how fast you play but by the clock. A group can be on time or a couple minute behind but the group behind can be fast players. Also ambassadors have far more ability then you may think, but there are many factors. We are retired, take a chill pill.

We played Bonita Pass one day last summer and while teeing off on the 7th hole we observed the two 4 somes in front of us decided to drive off and departed the course. Sure enough the ambassador came up to us and said to speed up as there were 2 holes open in front. Well, yeah! There would be. He asked me how I knew they left the course and I told him they drove right past you! We all laughed.

[graciegirl]

Posting here won't help.


I've tried to get a second pickle on my cheeseburger and it hasn't happened yet.

You are right as usual and a lot of the population now here, will exit in SEVEN days.

[ColdNoMore]

Pace of play has 2 factors, on time and position. You can have 2 holes open in front of you and still be on time. Maybe open tee times, maybe 2 somes or 3 somes. The pace is NOT determined by how fast you play but by the clock. A group can be on time or a couple minute behind but the group behind can be fast players. Also ambassadors have far more ability then you may think, but there are many factors.

For clarification, I've played more than enough golf to know... when to compare apples to apples.

None of your threesome/twosome/empty tee times/just faster players/Etc...apply to my point/examples.




We are retired, take a chill pill.

However, this statement and attitude...does apply to my point.

Thank you. :ho:

[kcrazorbackfan]

Mrs. KC played the Marshview Pitch and Play today - 3 freaking long hours for that short course. Slow play is so killing the game of golf.

U.N.A.C.C.E.P.T.A.B.L.E.

[tophcfa]

I and my golf partners are all fast players, and for the most part, have not experienced unreasonably slow play on the championship courses. The executive courses are a totally different animal. Slow play is expected and must be tolerated if you wish to not go crazy sometimes. I rarely play executive courses, but when I do I bring a couple of cold beers and expect a slow but fun round nonetheless. If I want a fast round on executive courses I find it is best to either go out as one of the first couple of groups in the AM or the last couple of groups before dark during daylight savings time. It is what it is.

[Edjkoz]

Executive courses this time of year are slow and that’s expected. It’s slow play on the Championship courses that drives me up a wall. If people would just play ready golf, we could all move along nicely and stop waiting for the green to clear when you’re 275 yards out. You’re not going to hit it. You’re drive didn’t even go 200 yds.

[JimD215]

There are so many factors that play into the equation. Foursomes are sent out every 7 or 8 minutes. That leaves very little room for error. The new rules gives a golfer 3 minutes to look for their ball. If that happens to the same group 2 times that is 6 minutes. The group behind will now be waiting. But this doesn’t mean the group is slow. They could be playing faster than the alloted tome per hole. You then have groups that play 30 minutes faster than the alloted time. When they make the turn they have to wait for the last group on the wave to start before they do. They now think the play is slow but they are just real fast. Maybe if they put a little more time between tee times this may help but there is just too much demand to do that. You also have people who can’t wait for their tee time to start and hit 2-3 minutes before. This will not keep the pace of play. Also practing ready golf and good golf needs to be used a lot more.

[DonH57]

I've noticed some starters actually keep track of who's shooting off when. There's been times when we could go tee off and the group before us were waiting to tee off. Other starters actually go out and observe what the groups are doing since some foursomes just pull up in line before checking in and or walk off to parts unknown!

[Marathon Man]

In today’s Daily Sun Steve Trivett wrote an article about slow play. He is 100% correct about it ruining the game of golf. Until the local courses start enforcing pace of play it will only get worse with the additional population. We are constantly told that ambassadors are not allowed to enforce pace of play for fear of upsetting someone. The unfortunate consequence is that everyone behind the slow players gets upset. Please consider this when playing.

But not neccessarily told by those who would actually know.

[Bay Kid]

The idea is for everyone to enjoy their game.

[charmed59]

Biggest holdup I’ve found on the executive courses is when scramble groups are so excited about scoring etc they forget to leave the course on nine. I’ve seen 6 carts hanging out around the ninth green while some practice putting on nine and others tally up the score on the fringe. I’ve seen money awards handed out. I’ve seen others that just want to park where those on the tee box will likely hit them, while giving hugs and high fives. Meanwhile, groups are piling up on the ninth tee box wondering what these people are thinking.

I don’t understand why it is so hard to finish the ninth hole and pull off the course to celebrate and repack your clubs.

[karostay]

Maybe "slow play" in TV is a function of retirement status and relative age.

And health...Many factors..
Yes slow play is annoying in the long run at this stage of our lives
Just be happy we woke up to see the flag stick :pray:

[Allaire]

Played Glenview on Sunday 6/2
with our friends, another couple,or should I say tried.Tee time 10:32 finished 9 holes
2 hours and 45 + min later.
So got rain check for the other 9 holes...
PPOBLEM #1
.When you have ( 3 ).
4 somes on the same hole you have a problem .When you have golfers playing blue tee boxes and can't, or even come close to reaching the 150yrd markers on there drives you have a problem. When the group in front of you loose sight of the 4 some in front of them on the second hole ,you have a problem.
All the time not only are you frustrating my group,but the entire field behind us.
So by the 5th hole, I had a chance to speak to the Ambassador about the slow play.
I said could you tell us what's going on in front if us? His response was the two groups in front of us were the problem .
He said I spoke to them, to get moving ..
.So I asked what was there response?
He replied ,they just looked at me ..
Well I can tell you it didn't work ..
When you have golfers walking to there ball without clubs and your partner then decides to move the cart on the other side of the fairway that's a problem ..When you have the entire group watching you hit the ball ,that's a problem..When you park your carts in front of the green on every hole ,that's a problem.
When you clean your clubs while your parked in front of the green that's a problem.
So you see folks a little COMMON SENSE and golf ETIQUETTE could have gone a long way.
Sadly ,this is not the first time ,nor will it be the last time we will experience this..
The only good thing about this day is we got to the bar earlier than expected.

If I was any better I'd be twins!!
Cheers!!

[stan the man]

This does not happen "outside TV" Where i came from the ambassadors carry guns

[John_W]

The afternoon teetimes on the championships right now are a good pace of play. On Friday 5/31 we had a teetime of 1:00 at Belle Glade (Calusa > Tequesta), at 12:30 when my neighbor and I were paying in the clubhouse they said we're next on the tee. We have to wait for our third player.

We went to the Calusa starter shack and checked in and he said, were next up. I called our third player who lives close by in Labelle. We went to the practice green and when our third showed, we teed off at 12:45.

We never had to wait on the entire 18 holes, first time this has happened in a few years. Nobody in sight in front us all day, the three of us finished the 18 holes about 4:00, that was about 3+15 minutes from the time we started. We play ready golf, when you're ready you hit, don't have to wait for honors, but we did take the stick out when putting close range. It was a very enjoyable afternoon.

I think since they have the discount golf at 4pm now, it has eliminated some of the early afternoon golfers. For $34 it was a good deal for us, the fairways could use a little more grass.

[waynet]

Poor champ course design is also cause for slow play.

[karostay]

Maybe "slow play" in TV is a function of retirement status and relative age.

Thank:bigbow: You well stated
They encourage everyone to keep moving
which is great.

I personally enjoy seeing and playing with people of all ages and ability. Great to see them out there enjoying what this great community has to offer.
Sadly it does offend others with higher skill levels and ease of mobility. If your day is going to be ruined by some one taking a few extra minutes you shouldn't be out there

[JoMar]

Poor champ course design is also cause for slow play.

Or the players that don't know to adjust their game to the course they are playing.

[Two Bills]

Why would anyone want to play 'Fast Golf?'
Or is there a prize for the fastest round of th day?

[Bogie Shooter]

This does not happen "outside TV" Where i came from the ambassadors carry guns

I did not know Leavenworth had a golf course.:1rotfl:

[ColdNoMore]

Why would anyone want to play 'Fast Golf?'
Or is there a prize for the fastest round of th day?

It isn't really a matter of playing "fast" golf...it's simply playing "ready" golf.

The round is a lot more enjoyable (for most of us), when you can move along at a nice even pace and aren't constantly waiting for people in front zig-zagging constantly back and forth in the fairway ahead of you...or spending forever clearing the area near the green, after they've holed out. :shrug:

[Fredman]

Played Glenview on Sunday 6/2
with our friends, another couple,or should I say tried.Tee time 10:32 finished 9 holes
2 hours and 45 + min later.
So got rain check for the other 9 holes...
PPOBLEM #1
.When you have ( 3 ).
4 somes on the same hole you have a problem .When you have golfers playing blue tee boxes and can't, or even come close to reaching the 150yrd markers on there drives you have a problem. When the group in front of you loose sight of the 4 some in front of them on the second hole ,you have a problem.
All the time not only are you frustrating my group,but the entire field behind us.
So by the 5th hole, I had a chance to speak to the Ambassador about the slow play.
I said could you tell us what's going on in front if us? His response was the two groups in front of us were the problem .
He said I spoke to them, to get moving ..
.So I asked what was there response?
He replied ,they just looked at me ..
Well I can tell you it didn't work ..
When you have golfers walking to there ball without clubs and your partner then decides to move the cart on the other side of the fairway that's a problem ..When you have the entire group watching you hit the ball ,that's a problem..When you park your carts in front of the green on every hole ,that's a problem.
When you clean your clubs while your parked in front of the green that's a problem.
So you see folks a little COMMON SENSE and golf ETIQUETTE could have gone a long way.
Sadly ,this is not the first time ,nor will it be the last time we will experience this..
The only good thing about this day is we got to the bar earlier than expected.

If I was any better I'd be twins!!
Cheers!!
Well said

[dewilson58]

Poor champ course design is also cause for slow play.








:1rotfl:

[waynet]

No the designs of the courses do nothing but slow up play. Same guy did most of them. Friend of the family but not very good at design for senior golfers.

[dewilson58]

No the designs of the courses do nothing but slow up play. Same guy did most of them. Friend of the family but not very good at design for senior golfers.




Enlighten us.

[Best2bgolfing]

I support enforcing pace of play. Once golfers start to know they are to slow or to fast. The spacing of the tee times will start to be more effective. Which will make for less standing and parking time on the grass areas. The result a better golf expirence.

[Bruce Hancock]

simple to do; give the rangers in the villages the authority to move slow players the way every course in America does. Allowing 4 1/2 hours to play a round of golf is ridiculous, especially on user friendly village courses. Too many times you'll see people looking for free balls like they are gold. It should be easy to enforce, and like bad kids, it you punish them, they'll usually stop doing what they were doing.

[JimJohnson]

I rarely see any slow play on the ex courses. I see a lot of impatient aggressive old farts 💨.

[waynet]

Sorry JoMar nothing to do with adjusting. One example of bad design, the bunkers. Many are too deep for seniors, while others are so large it takes minutes to get in rake and get out. One other point. As we get older we have trouble hitting the ball as high as we used to. All greens should allow us to roll balls up to thegreens. This guy puts bunkers in front of the greens . These bunkers are also very expensive to maintain, more expensive than greens. and finally many of them serve no purpose.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

"We are retired; take a chill pill" - is an attitude of privilege and entitlement. This isn't a retirement community. It's a 55+ community. MANY people living in The Villages still work for a living. That means their day off, is probably only one of two or three days off they have available all week. That means this one golf game might possibly be the only one they get to play all week, or all month. If you're not in a rush, then schedule yourself for the last tee time available. You're retired afterall, you don't have to get to bed early to work in the morning right?

An actual solution that I haven't read yet, is for the party immediately behind the slow group to simply ask if they can play through. And for the slow party to say "you know what, we're slow today, go ahead."

If enough people continuously ask the slower people if they can play through, maybe the slower people will get the hint that they're going TOO slow, and either speed up, or stop scheduling their tee time so early in the day when so many other people are lining up behind them.

[shebob1109]

I totally agree that slow play ruins golf.
The executive courses are more "social" in nature but we pay significantly to play the Championship Courses.
As a former ranger up north it seems ridiculous that the ambassadors can't enforce pace of play. When I see a player sitting in a cart waiting for his partner to play and his/her ball is within walking distance to the cart and they don't have enough sense to go to their ball on get ready to hit it slows play significantly . Simply being aware of strategies to speed play and allowing ambassadors to "mentor" players could help speed up play greatly.

[dennisgavin]

I have had some experience on the execs with starters forcing us out " on time" when there is an obvious back up. THen we just wait out on the course. Makes no sense. I'd rather wait at the beginning and play a smooth round. Some starters get it and some don't.

[BWHollo]

Being retired so expect slow play is an excuse, not a reason. We are ALL retired !! and the majority of us can keep up because we play ready golf, bring more than one club when chipping on (putter so we dont have to return to the cart) and dont hover around balls like a flock of quail. I enjoy my time conversing too.... but I do it in the cart on the way to the next hole. One slow group can and does cause a lot of consternation behind them. "Learn how to golf prior to learning how to play golf"

[rlcooper70]

I think part of the problem is ambassador communication. The ambassador should come up with a way to address the slow play that (a) starts with the statement that the players have fallen behind because they may be unaware and (b) suggests a solution.

"Would you like to let them through?"
"Would you like to skip a hole?"
"Would you like to pick up your ball?"

One ambassador told me to stand next to my ball to move it along ... and my ball was in front of the other three golfers .. what a joke!

Communication is the key - give the ambassadors the communication tools and they will do a better job suggesting a solution.

[Two Bills]

Removing many of the sand traps on Executives, would certainly speed up play,
Removing them all would not be out of the equation either.
Some are way beyond the skill level of many, and as stated earlier, some are more in tune with the North Face of the Eiger, as far as some of us older farts are concerned!

[Garwood1]

My personal view is that it shouldn't take more than 3 1/2 hours to play , the thought of 4 and 15 minutes is way longer than required but always hear they're on time and if there's open holes ahead imho they're behind , if you want take all day play in the late afternoon

[itzfun]

First of all most ambassadors only have the "job" because they want 1/2 price golf. Years ago the developer's policy was not to enforce pace of play. Very few ambassadors even bother to try.

There are those idiotic signs at starter shacks that say "think ready golf." They should say "play ready golf." Would probably still be a waste of paper.

So many players do not play ready golf. Years ago I played at an area offsite course with pace of play rules posted. #1 was: at the first notice of slow play, you will be asked to pick up the pace. #2 was: at the second notice of slow play you will be asked to move to the 150 yd. marker, or next tee box, whichever is closer. #3 was: at the third notice you will be asked to leave the course.

In TV slow players manage the courses. If fast/normal speed players don't like it they can leave. Of course it should be the other way around.

Each nine holes on championship holes is timed separately. You can be 1/2 hour behind on the first 9, and right on time on the second.

I've been in groups behind slow players with open holes and have had the ambassador tell us that there are no open holes, or we are right on pace. Essentially calling us liars. I try to avoid interacting with ambassadors at all.

Yes, I am retired. But being on the course for 4 1/2 to 5 hours for a round of golf is not my idea of fun. I don't play as well as I did 20 years ago, but I still play well. Slow play is not my idea of fun.

Sad that this will never change.

[dewilson58]

Old Retired People = Slow Play.




Next!!!

[Dreamvillager]

Playing the championship courses isn’t inexpensive and nothing is worse than waiting on every hole
Maybe they could spread the tee times to 9 minutes apart

[Jpcrest]

People - we are retired! Yes, I get annoyed with slow play too but if you’re playing an exec course, expect slow play. A lot of these players are beginners and they have the right to learn the game. I’d rather see them on an exec course than a championship course. Maybe a suggestion: spread out the tee times a couple of minutes. Or require a golf 101 course before playing ( providing people with golf etiquette)

[427dave]

Posting here won't help.


I've tried to get a second pickle on my cheeseburger and it hasn't happened yet.

Most of the fast food places put three (3) pickles on :) :)

[Odysseus]

You're playing a GAME...not undertaking a military foray. Chill out and have fun. Or, if that doesn't appeal, join an golf club with a lot of young members and have to hustle your butt. This is a RETIREMENT community and in Florida, where everything is a lot slower than 'up north'.

[allsport]

Do you all know you are retired and should be enjoying the great outdoors. I play the executive courses regularly and they are always backed up unless you are first on. Just relax and catch up on what is going on with your friends, no one has to get back to the office.

[krandich]

Why can’t the slower group let the faster group play through? Why can’t a group of 4 let a single or a pair play through?

It seems that inviting someone to play through would satisfy both groups. Why isn’t this concept part of “Good Golf”?

Keith

[funtime]

Steve is correct, people play less golf because of slow play, some even quite. But the real problem here, as we can see from the responses, is that, there are competing views. Some people enjoy a leisurely round, some come to socialize, the course has their own agenda. For those that want to play golf without the social interaction, the traditional 4 some at 4+ hours is not fun. A single golfer with a cart and get around a championship course, without speeding in about 2 1/2 hours. A twosome with their own cart and get around in about 3 hours. A foursome will take, even in the best of time 3 3/4 to four hours. Its clear having more than 2 people, is not conducive to prompt golf. Why cant both types of players have their way. Start with twosome Tuesdays. Tee times are only for single and 2 players, each with their own cart. I think on those days we would be talking around 3 hour rounds, without rushing. A golfers golfer wants to play golf, but not at a hurried pace. If the demand was increasing the course could go to every other day having 1 or 2 golfer tee times, I would think you could go to 5 minute tee times, which would increase the income of the golf course. People that want to continue to play 4+ hour rounds could book on those designated days. Everybody wins.

[sipops]

Then why bother having ambassadors. There is a polite way to tell someone to pick up the pace. Also find out what group is causing the delay.

[PJackpot]

Slow play can be aggravating on any course, especially when you see golfers taking ten minutes to find a ball that is obviously determined not to be found. A lot of players also do not understand ready golf. If you're on time, you're on time. No problem there. However, if you are unnecessarily holding up other players, it's not a matter of being retired, it's a matter of being cognizant of others around you.

[PaulUnderwood]

Played in 1hr5min the other day as a foursome and after the 2nd hole never saw the threesome in front of us or the foursome behind us. Remember there are a lot of first time golfers down here and alot play from the wrong tees.

[PJackpot]

Having a schedule of that kind is just not realistic. It amounts to rationing golf. I think the bulk of us realize and accept that if you're a twosome behind a foursome, you are obviously not going to take as long to play, and there may be some wait time. As far as leisure and socializing goes, my own experience tells me it is possible to keep up the pace and still interact with others in the group.

[cleanwater]

There’s enough courses to have designated slow play and fast play courses. Each to own need. I for one am retired but don’t enjoy 5 hour rounds. I love 3.5 hour rounds and would seek out courses promoting faster play and avoid slow play courses.

[JoMar]

There’s enough courses to have designated slow play and fast play courses. Each to own need. I for one am retired but don’t enjoy 5 hour rounds. I love 3.5 hour rounds and would seek out courses promoting faster play and avoid slow play courses.

That would never work.....and you know that. In addition to the uprising that would create that would also be a form of segregation. The priority system would either be in shambles or impossible to manage and how the heck would you determine who plays well. Train in and give the ambassadors authority to regulate play would help. If you love 3.5 rounds, I suspect you are in the minority but there are plenty of off site courses that can accommodate you. Why try and adjust everyone else's game to fit yours?

[Slmtraveler]

We played a round of golf when we did the Stay & Play. I've only played golf one other time in Arizona. The couple we played with in TV were amazing and patient with me and gave lots of tips. We weren't holding anyone up behind us. We haven't retired yet, but I certainly hope to relax more than some of the people on these threads. Isn't being retired supposed to be about relaxing? I've had enough stress working and sure don't want to move across the country to be stressed out over golf, golf cart traffic, crowded restaurants, etc. We've been to TV several times and everyone seems to be enjoying their time there, but then I start reading the threads. Mixed messages to say the least.

[EviesGP]

As a newbie wearing a green shirt, let me chime in here. First, I only read the first few, and last few, pages of this thread, but many of you are correct. Ambassadors will enforce play, although mainly on the Champ courses. For the main reasons stated here. There's really no place to put people, and with 9 holes, the damage is already done(and play finished), by the time we try to intervene. For the Champs, same as some answers here. It's the clock. They're timed to the minute(of Tee-off). And they will be spoken to, multiple times, if necessary, before we call out a Mgr. But, just because a group behind them is playing faster, does not mean they have to play as fast. Lots of amateur/novice golfers in TV. As for letting them thru(like up north), with the wave system, it's hard to do. Bottom line, if you're thinking you're going to "jump on as a single or two-some, and scream thru", you'll want to find a less crowded time(s). Cheers! Drink the Kool-Aid, and perhaps something else in it, and enjoy! :)

[gogond]

Cold No More, while I agree with you on everything I do believe that it is more of a board meeting watching everyone’s shot. Lol:a040:

[Philip zizzo]

You already upset the 30 people behind the slow player

[rschinn]

I have never understood this rule on the golf courses.
I have played many courses and there is always a timing factor.
It is fine for beginners to play too, but they should be told that after 4 or 5 over par, they should pick up their ball and move on so they don't hold up the entire golf course. I realize everyone can't shoot par, but let's pick up and think about all the golfers behind us.
Maybe the beginners should consider taking a few golf lessons and especially read about golf etiquette; we need to learn to share our golf courses a little better and learn the rules of golf.

[ColdNoMore]

Cold No More, while I agree with you on everything I do believe that it is more of a board meeting watching everyone’s shot.Lol :a040:

One of the more impatient guys I regularly play with in a large group, refers to them as..."union meetings." :D


Conversely, this same person has no problem taking 10 minutes to look for his own $1.00 ball...even after being told it's DEEP in the swamp. :oops:

[JoMar]

A couple years ago we had one of those also so when he wanted to stay and search for his obviously lost ball the rest of his group moved on. If he was driving the guy with him grabbed a couple clubs and walked to his ball, if he was riding the driver drove away and it was up to him to catch up. That happened maybe three times and he got the message.

[sail33or]

This is "VILLAGES" Golf. People who have NEVER played golf play here because they already have a golf cart, live a few blocks from the course and feel it is somewhat free. It is the main attraction. They are TERRIBLE Golfers. 10-15 strokes per hole. (5 strokes just putting greens, etc.) So of course it is going to be slow. Also this is a retirement community. People walk very slow. It takes a long time to retrieve a ball from the cup. Got the idea. Villages Golf. Ambassadors for Executive Courses are instructed to just keep everyone happy.

Championship is a little more like the Outside World. But you will still get very slow players imitating pro players, waiting till green clears to hit their shank out of bounds, etc. But this is a Retirement Community. You generally know what to expect.

[C4Boston]

Of course the bottom line is to move more people through a course. Designate some courses for beginners and pace them 15 minutes apart instead of 8 minutes. This way everyone enjoys the game.

[Aloha1]

Until there are REAL consequences for slow play, starting at the professional level...it will be a lost cause.

Since I don't play the exec's, I can't speak for them, but I have yet to EVER see a championship course ambassador...move a slow group up.

Even with two holes in front of them open, it's usually a "well, they're on time"...or some other inane comment. :oops:

There are so many ways to play quicker, without rushing your actual shot. It starts with the idea that getting your azz out of the cart, grabbing the club you think you'll need, with one more and one less, walking over to your ball and then playing ready golf...is NOT against the rules.

And then there's the group that needs a union meeting to gather around and watch each player hit their ball.

And then there's the ones who can't trust their memory from the green to the next tee, so must write everyone's score (after yelling to confirm) at their cart...which they've parked too close to the green in the first place.

And then............ :mad:


If everyone would simply follow the old adage that "your place on the course is right behind the group in front of you, not just ahead of the group behind you"...things would get instantly better. :ohdear:

:bigbow:

[Bowtorc]

Takes a lot of cheese for all the whine. Relax and enjoy the time. lots of new players and should be told at starter shack to pick up after 6 as the rule is

[rjn5656]

I don't mind slow play due to people with disabilities, old people who move slow, or newbies. What I don't like is when people think it is ok to hit 3 or 4 balls until they find one they like (probably not much better than the first 3).

[ColdNoMore]

Takes a lot of cheese for all the whine. Relax and enjoy the time. lots of new players and should be told at starter shack to pick up after 6 as the rule is.

Actually, that's not really a "rule"...even an unofficial one.

One 'unofficial rule' I've heard, is the one that suggests you should pick up...after "double par."

Which is still better than those having a blowup hole and refusing to put the ball in their pocket...regardless of how many strokes they've already taken. :oops:

Even if a person doesn't keep a GHIN index, I personally would just be happy to see them estimate what their course handicap would be...and then follow the Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) guidelines. :shrug:


Equitable Stroke Control (Click Here) (http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=9)

Course Handicap..... Maximum Score

0-9..... Double Bogey
10-19..... 7
20-29..... 8
30-39..... 9
40 or more 10

Since getting a GHIN number isn't all that expensive (+-$30 a year?), I suggest everyone should get one so that they can see how their game is progressing...or in my case, regressing. :oops:

[stan the man]

get use to it .... nothing going to change

[ColdNoMore]

Of course the bottom line is to move more people through a course. Designate some courses for beginners and pace them 15 minutes apart instead of 8 minutes. This way everyone enjoys the game.

Interesting concept.

[Miss Daisy]

Be patient. Some are learning. Most are retired here. What is your hurry? The game is not to be rushed! It is to be enjoyed! Relax and enjoy yourself.

[rustyp]

There is no way slow play is as big a deal in TV as is being portrayed here. Proof - Tee times are usually between 8 - 9 minutes apart. That equates to less than 3 hours for 18 holes. The courses are booked solid during high season. If slow play is really happening then the tee times during the day would back up. Rarely do any of us tee off late from our assigned tee times. Patience grasshoppers.

[dewilson58]

There is no way slow play is as big a deal in TV as is being portrayed here. Proof - Tee times are usually between 8 - 9 minutes apart. That equates to less than 3 hours for 18 holes. The courses are booked solid during high season. If slow play is really happening then the tee times during the day would back up. Rarely do any of us tee off late from our assigned tee times. Patience grasshoppers.






Amazing what logic adds to a thread.

[rustyp]

Amazing what logic adds to a thread.

Kinda like Adam ruins everything - thanks

[drcar]

First of all most ambassadors only have the "job" because they want 1/2 price golf. Years ago the developer's policy was not to enforce pace of play. Very few ambassadors even bother to try.

There are those idiotic signs at starter shacks that say "think ready golf." They should say "play ready golf." Would probably still be a waste of paper.

So many players do not play ready golf. Years ago I played at an area offsite course with pace of play rules posted. #1 was: at the first notice of slow play, you will be asked to pick up the pace. #2 was: at the second notice of slow play you will be asked to move to the 150 yd. marker, or next tee box, whichever is closer. #3 was: at the third notice you will be asked to leave the course.

In TV slow players manage the courses. If fast/normal speed players don't like it they can leave. Of course it should be the other way around.

Each nine holes on championship holes is timed separately. You can be 1/2 hour behind on the first 9, and right on time on the second.

I've been in groups behind slow players with open holes and have had the ambassador tell us that there are no open holes, or we are right on pace. Essentially calling us liars. I try to avoid interacting with ambassadors at all.

Yes, I am retired. But being on the course for 4 1/2 to 5 hours for a round of golf is not my idea of fun. I don't play as well as I did 20 years ago, but I still play well. Slow play is not my idea of fun.

Sad that this will never change.

Sorry you are wrong on several counts:

You are correct each nine is timed but if you are 10 minutes down on the front you are 10 minutes down on the back.

The "developer NEVER said don't enforce pace of play.

The pace of play for champ courses is 4 hours 16 minutes.

[drcar]

There’s enough courses to have designated slow play and fast play courses. Each to own need. I for one am retired but don’t enjoy 5 hour rounds. I love 3.5 hour rounds and would seek out courses promoting faster play and avoid slow play courses.

Silly suggestion, the courses would never have designated courses for speed. You pay your money and play. How could you tell a group that they cant play unless you play in 3 1/2 hours????

[kcrazorbackfan]

Poor champ course design is also cause for slow play.

So, what would you do to design a more speedier course? There is going to be a new championship course built close to the turnpike; have you approached the Developer with your design ideas? Or how about having acquired the land and a few million laying around to scratch that check out and build your design? :boom:

Ahhh, The Villages; where golf course designers and greens superintendents go to retire...…………...

[Twiganne]

What I don’t understand is my dad said there is no play through allowed on the course. There were plenty of times that nobody was behind us and still the other people were terrible and wouldn’t let us play through. I didn’t understand until dad told me it was against the rules because each group was being timed.
Ok then how about these people who haven’t teed off yet and instead are up in the carts having themselves a social outing while we have just played an entire hole and they still haven’t teed off. Then there are the ones who take one club with them and then walk back to the cart to get another. The other writers are so right in that take a club under and over if you are not sure which club you need. I do that all of the time.
The rule is that on a par three that you get six strokes not six putts. When your ball is close enough to hole bend over and pick it up. We are not on the pro tours here. Ok I can see if there are golfers who are that good that it matters about the score but most players here aren’t that good. Nobody needs to have a discussion about their technique and a lesson while on the green.
As far as the ball marks and the pits may as just resolve that their people who think they are entitled because they live here. I agree with one guy a few weeks ago who said it is just easy to fix a ball mark or rake a sand pit if you are standing right next to it. It doesn’t hurt and there is no use of making a stand well if he didn’t do it I am certainly not going to do it for him. Again the point of not having a gathering at everyone who is playing and how they hit their ball. If you are on the other side of the course and not in front of the other player then get your club out of your bag and if it is your turn next be ready to hit the ball. If everyone tried to have consideration for others it would be much more enjoyable. This is why I prefer to play in the evening. Most people have gone to eat and there are never as many people playing in the evenings as during the day.

[Jmoore417]

I have often wondered what makes people think 4 hours and 10 minutes is the proper speed to play golf and one that everyone enjoys. I know that if a foursome with handicaps of 10-20 play ready golf that a normal round is about 3.5 hours. What I find sad here in TV is that all of the courses are set up for 4+ hour rounds. There are 13 championship courses here, you would think they could take just one and set it up for those who truly want to play ready golf and change the expectation to 3.45 hours. I think they might find a lot of golfers would enjoy not having to wait between every shot and if they did the math I think they would discover a couple of more tee times they could sell. I have asked many of the facility managers how many complaints they get from people saying play is too fast, you ought to see the look they give me but the system does not seem to want to try anything different....

[waynet]

Razor, if you read my earlier post I explained one of my ideas to speed up play and it concerned the bunkers. Too many, too deep,and too large. Going in raking, getting out takes lots of time. Think 9th hole of Caroline bunker at right of green. You could get lost in there. Also think 5th on Caroline quite possibly the worst par 5 design ever. And by the way your sarcasm is not needed.

[HIgolfers]

drcar- you are wrong. If you are 10 minutes behind on the Front nine, once you make the turn your clock starts again. So if you are on pace on the back nine, then you are fine. This was how an ambassador explained it to me. Not that it matters because as others have commented, very few ambassadors will do anything about slow play. I can only assume that they have been told not to enforce slow play.

[Two Bills]

Thank your lucky stars none here were good enough for the Pro Circuit.
Five hours is classed as a fast round there.

[willis100]

They are TERRIBLE Golfers

not golfers but just people on a golf course

[biker1]

I believe you are correct. I mostly play the executive courses. I hardly ever see "slow play" in the context of how much time is allotted for each hole. I do, however, see "slow play" in the context of how fast I play. The fact that I may we waiting for a "slow" group in front of me because I play fast is my problem only. Choosing level 3 and 4 courses does address the "problem" somewhat.


There is no way slow play is as big a deal in TV as is being portrayed here. Proof - Tee times are usually between 8 - 9 minutes apart. That equates to less than 3 hours for 18 holes. The courses are booked solid during high season. If slow play is really happening then the tee times during the day would back up. Rarely do any of us tee off late from our assigned tee times. Patience grasshoppers.

[HoosierBob]

I dislike slow play as much as the next golfer but Steve overstates this as a problem in Villages golf. In nine years of golfing here, in busy snowbird season, a round has never taken more than 4 hours 20 minutes and most are around 4hours or 4 hours 10 minutes. A golf round can be over 5 hours in many places around this country.
Given our age demographic and the fact that many retirees are trying to enjoy golf for the first time I believe a little patience and a little understanding is worth taking 15-20 minutes longer to accommodate our neighbors. And what would we do with the extra 20 minutes anyway?

[charmed59]

I don’t mind if they are slow while playing. It’s the extra stuff that drives me crazy.

Just yesterday we were playing on a fairly empty course and caught up to the group in front of us. We are waiting on the group in front of us to clear the green. They pull the flag, they all line up their putts like there is money on the line. They all finish putting, pulling their balls out of the hole and put the flag back in. I’m fine with that. Then one of them drops his ball back on the green to try putting again. While we are all standing on the tee.

Seriously, just look back before playing mulligans. If you aren’t holding anyone up, go to town on extra shots. But if there are folks waiting for you that’s not the time for practice.

[Marathon Man]

What I don’t understand is my dad said there is no play through allowed on the course.

I am not aware of any rule against allowing a group to go around you. It wouldn't stop me if there were. I would simply tell the 'time keeper' what we did and please give us tn minutes.

[Marathon Man]

I agree with those that say that slow play is over-stated. Yes, it happens from time to time. But, that is true everywhere else I lived. I think the difference is, retired folks play much more golf, therefore encountering slow play more often.

[iaudit]

There is no way slow play is as big a deal in TV as is being portrayed here. Proof - Tee times are usually between 8 - 9 minutes apart. That equates to less than 3 hours for 18 holes. The courses are booked solid during high season. If slow play is really happening then the tee times during the day would back up. Rarely do any of us tee off late from our assigned tee times. Patience grasshoppers.

Most non par 3 holes have two groups on each hole so that equates to 16 - 18 minutes per hole. Do the math grasshopper.

[ColdNoMore]

I am not aware of any rule against allowing a group to go around you. It wouldn't stop me if there were. I would simply tell the 'time keeper' what we did and please give us tn minutes.Actually, the USGA encourages faster groups to play through.

USGA - Improving Pace Of Play (Click Here) (http://www.usga.org/pace-of-play-resource-center/tips-and-suggestions-for-improving-pace-of-play.html)

Keep up with the group in front of you.

Your correct position on the course is immediately behind the group in front of you, not immediately in front of the group behind you. Arrive at your next shot just before the group in front leaves the area in front of you.

If you are consistently not able to keep up and a gap opens in front of you, invite the group behind you to play through, irrespective of the number of players in the group.


HOWEVER, my group(s) have been told numerous times by the ambassadors on the championship courses...that "playing through" is not allowed here. :ohdear:

One time my foursome was waved through (on a par 3) by a slow (but courteous & not trying to play slow, they just weren't very good golfers) group in front and even with no one behind us for a few holes...the ambassador told all 8 of us that it "wasn't allowed."

When we told the ambassador that given there was no one behind us, that we would quickly be gone and it was the only common sense thing for the group in front of us to do (they had already hit their tee shots on the par 3)...he mumbled something about how "it messes up our calculations on timing groups." :oops:

Most of us just laughed out loud and then took off...never to see the slower group again. :ho:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It's pretty evident that "calculations of timing groups" doesn't accomplish anything, if you have people in front going so slowly that a bunch of old folks are hoping to play through :) :) :)

[drcar]

drcar- you are wrong. If you are 10 minutes behind on the Front nine, once you make the turn your clock starts again. So if you are on pace on the back nine, then you are fine. This was how an ambassador explained it to me. Not that it matters because as others have commented, very few ambassadors will do anything about slow play. I can only assume that they have been told not to enforce slow play.

Sorry, I would say I hate to correct you, but I am not. You are wrong and so is whatever ambassador you talked to. IF you are behind on the front, you are behind on the back nine.. At the turn the starter should talk to you about pace of play. Go in the clubhouse ask a manager, everyone complains here but no one talks to the managers or the pro.

[Northwoods]

I am not aware of any rule against allowing a group to go around you. It wouldn't stop me if there were. I would simply tell the 'time keeper' what we did and please give us tn minutes.

When playing an Executive course, we were going to let the group behind us play through. The Ambassador told us you are not allowed to let a group play through on Executive courses. Just FYI.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So let's say there are 5 groups behind you for the day, all timed sequentially (the very next tee-time is assigned, as are each of the next 4 tee-times). You want to get an extra 10 minutes. No problem. Everyone will have to wait an extra 10 minutes. Easy peasy. But wait. The next group also wants 10 minutes. They gave it to you, they should give it to them.

So now, the 4 groups behind that group is now waiting 20 minutes each. But the NEXT group also wants 10 minutes. So each of the subsequent 3 groups are now waiting an extra half hour.

This is why it's a bad idea to not care about accountability and owning up to your own responsibility in keeping an appropriate pace. Because it's not just the person behind you who's waiting. It's them and everyone behind them, and the more people who have this "hey we're retired, chill out" attitude is causing the last people in line to have to wait unfairly for every single person ahead of them.

Keep the pace, or accept a later tee-time so that quicker people can start before you do.

[Edjkoz]

I just love the golfer who hasn’t hit a drive over 150 yards all day but has to wait for the green to clear when they’re trying to hit a 275 yards shot from the fairway. really?

[Seacoast1]

Just remember......

Golf is literally a sport to see who can play the least golf.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dewilson58]

There is no way slow play is as big a deal in TV as is being portrayed here. Proof - Tee times are usually between 8 - 9 minutes apart. That equates to less than 3 hours for 18 holes. The courses are booked solid during high season. If slow play is really happening then the tee times during the day would back up. Rarely do any of us tee off late from our assigned tee times. Patience grasshoppers.






Worth re-posting.





:super:

[ohiosbestus]

What is the hurry, are you doing piece work? Golf is to be enjoyed and a form of relaxation. If you want to go fast, try running track or cross country. I for one want to try to play to the best of my ability, and I play better when I am not race horsing around the golf course. Not that i am slow, and I still get done in the allotted time frame of 4:15. Rush, Rush, Rush is what is wrong with American Society today. Take your time and do it right is my philosphy.

[Tom53]

Worth re-posting.





:super:

The math is kind of faulty for a less than 3 hour round. That assumption is based on completing every hole in 8-9 minutes, and 1 foursome per hole. With 2 foursomes on each par 4/5, and 1 on each par 3, that leaves you with 32 slots, and approximately 4:20 to complete, on pace. I'm ok with that! Most every group has an occasional bad hole, and you may be held up occasionally, but that's the nature of the game. That being said, 5-6 hours is excessive, but I haven't been subjected to one very often, if ever.

[mdticket]

Just a heads up: playing time for par 3's is 12 minutes, par 4's 14 minutes, par 5's 17 minutes. If everyone is on time when you get to a par 3 you will have a 4 minute wait. There is 5 minuets built in for the turn. Each 9 is not timed separately on most courses but there is at least one does time that way.

[dillywho]

I just love the golfer who hasn’t hit a drive over 150 yards all day but has to wait for the green to clear when they’re trying to hit a 275 yards shot from the fairway. really?

Not always their fault. Sometimes you do that and they look back at you as if you were trying to hit into them. That intimidates some people. Personally, I just let 'em look. I know how far I hit, and it ain't 275 yards. :1rotfl:

[dillywho]

I remember when I first started playing golf. I had been going to tournaments, etc., or just riding along with my husband. When I told him that I wanted to play, he told me to go get some clubs and lessons. I did. When he saw that I was going to stick with it, he bought me some good clubs. He didn't teach me how to play, but he did teach me how I should play. We would go out in the afternoons, and I would keep up with him by picking up my ball and moving it to where his was and play from there. I didn't take 5 or 6 practice shots, take another club, and more practice. I would take maybe one practice swing (still do) and hit the ball. The first time I was invited to play with him and his buddies, I was not sure I wanted to. We got along great! I had told him at one point that I knew I would never be a really, really good golfer; I just wanted to play well enough that nobody would mind playing with me. He assured me that they wouldn't because I didn't piddle around; I just hit and moved on. My philosophy is that I am either going to hit it or miss it and practice swinging forever wasn't going to change that. Actually, I putted better than him, but couldn't chip. I used to hit lots of chip shots with my 'Texas wedge' from pretty far off the green. As for getting out of traps, one or two tries and then it's the ole hand wedgie (toss it out). Being a beginner is no excuse for holding everyone up. Everyone was a beginner at some point. Nobody here is playing for a Green Jacket. Unless you are in a tournament, just do whatever it takes to keep up and enjoy your game. There is no shame in picking up. I loved tournaments, but played 100% by the rules then. No hand wedgies, etc.

My pet peeves here are not playing ready golf, not picking up when you are totally out of the hole anyway, moseying back to the cart and putting on the club head cover and placing it in the bag, then moving away, not getting out of the cart without finishing whatever conversation you are having first, and not getting off the course when you're done to visit while adding up scores. I find that I play better golf when the pace is comfortable, not slow or rushed. Not that hard to do.

We were told by our club pro:
Your place on the golf course is right behind the group in front of you; not right in front of the group behind you.

[59again]

Also placing holes in the most difficult Spots on the greens create Slow play Sand bunkers Some impossible to get out of due to the Sand if that’s what you call it yes slow play when golfers should be playing ready golf

[Marathon Man]

What is the hurry, are you doing piece work? Golf is to be enjoyed and a form of relaxation. If you want to go fast, try running track or cross country. I for one want to try to play to the best of my ability, and I play better when I am not race horsing around the golf course. Not that i am slow, and I still get done in the allotted time frame of 4:15. Rush, Rush, Rush is what is wrong with American Society today. Take your time and do it right is my philosphy.

C'mon now. No one is insisting that anyone rush. Slow play is rude and selfish, and can be avoided easily without rushing.