The 4th Town Square Location

[Goldwingnut]

Recent news articles in the Daily Sun about the purchase of 18,000 acres and the history of the town squares would seem hint to an upcoming announcement of the building of a new town square. My guess is that it’s going to be announced on May 8th at the Night With The Developer event.

I been working on a video with some drone footage for the last few weeks but I’m not sure when it will be finished so here’s the bulk of the script for a 10 minute video.

There’s been a lot of talk about where the next town square is going to be located but nothing official has been said by anyone except that it will be in Sumter County according to the agreement between Sumter County and the Developer on 7/10/18 when they entered into an agreement to build “Regionally Significant Roads”.

We have that one piece of data – Sumter County – which may leave Lake County feeling a little snubbed, well maybe.

There are some economic considerations that need to be addressed for a desirable location:
1. It will need to be surrounded by its principal customers – houses in The Villages. This is easily seen in both Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. With the additions in progress south of Brownwood it too will soon be surrounded, the long-term planning from Brownwood’s location are now becoming obvious.
2. It needs to be far enough from the other squares as to not impact their business significantly, yes it will initially but that will quickly fade as the novelty wears off. Spanish Springs to Sumter Landing is about 3 miles and Sumter to Brownwood is about 5 miles. We could assume a similar distance.
3. Accessibility will be critical for the new town square. Both golf cart and auto traffic need easy accessibility as will delivery vehicles. In my opinion, Lake Sumter Landing suffers a little on the delivery vehicle accessibility side of things.
4. As this will represent a significant investment it will need to sustain continued development progress for about 10 years (based on the past timelines in today’s paper).
After looking at the maps of the area and doing a lot of driving and flying around the current and new properties I’ve come up with what seems the most logical location. In the 1st attach picture I’ve marked the area on the north side of CR470 between the Turnpike exit and what is show as Road C. This is my prediction.

This location has obvious good access for non-Villages traffic and delivery vehicle and will be surrounded by Villages homes in a few years. It eliminates a very undesirable location for homes near the Turnpike exit. The Square would be visible from the Turnpike – free advertising to bring in additional business. It’s far enough away from Brownwood that it won’t take business away. The Southern Oaks areas south of CR468 and West Lake Villages properties will be easily served by this location. I also think this will be the biggest town square yet.

This location has the advantage of being in both Sumter and Lake Counties. This fulfills the agreement with Sumter County and encourages Lake County/Leesburg into further considerations beyond the West Lake Villages Properties. This is extremely important as I’ll explain shortly.

A community like The Villages isn’t planned in a few weeks or months, it takes years and years of planning and groundwork to be successful. The Villages have been masters of this process. In the last 5 years planned developments in the county that have stagnated for years have been incorporated into the master plan of The Villages. The first of these was a development called Wildwood Springs, we now know this as Fenney and DeSoto. Then came Southern Oaks which was on the north side of the Turnpike but has spread even further. Next was Cresswind – this is now the area south of Brownwood all the way to the Turnpike. The announcement earlier this week of the additional 18,000 acres included The Landstone Communities and Renaissance Trails. Quite an accomplishment that took years of work and planning and substantial financial resources.

There is one additional piece to the puzzle that is hinted to in the first attachment, Road A travels from CR470 in the NW to CR48 in the SE, one has to question this road as to why. A little history, in November 2005 a development was proposed to the city of Leesburg call Secret Promise, as this was a time of explosive growth in Florida this plan, like many others, was quickly approved. Shortly thereafter the housing market started to collapse and most developments stagnated (not The Villages), Secret Promise was one of these that disappeared into a vapor. It’s not a hard stretch to see how this would fit into The Villages master plan. They would own all 4 corners of the CR470 exit! We’ll see if I right.

The second attachment shows these various planned developments back in 2010.

Back to the Town Square, the location spanning the Sumter-Lake county line keeps Lake county interested in The Villages and greases the skid to make approval of Secret Promise a part of The Villages. City and County government like growth that cost them little and brings in lots of tax revenue, just ask Sumter County and the City of Wildwood, both are reaping the benefits of the growth of The Villages.

Before the crying starts about were the water will come from: a) there is plenty of water in the aquafers below us and most of it still flows to the ocean every day and b) the dual water systems and recycling system, demographics (no teenagers taking long showers), and seasonal occupancy of a large number of homes makes the average potable water consumption in The Villages about a third of the average home in the state of Florida, and 3) the state reports a thousand people a day move to Florida, of these 20-30 move to the Villages, some are replacing Villagers that are leaving or dying off so we get a net gain of maybe 15 people a day, or less than 2% of the total influx into Florida. These combine to not even be a blip on the overall statewide water usage radar.

Of course, there will be lots of new amenities, golf courses, shopping, and other necessities that will go with all this growth, none of which will be announced until absolutely necessary to get planning approval.

Remember, we’re looking at 20-30 years of long-term growth and planning. This has been happening like this for the last 30 years here, it’s just more visible now that people have become more tech savvy in finding out information on the internet.

Some may say that this is just the next generation of the Developer’s family being greedy, I completely disagree with this opinion. This is good management and planning that is keeping a thriving business alive and growing. This is just a continuation of Mr. Schwartz’s dream and planning, remember that CDDs 9 & 10 were established just a few months after his death meaning that all the work, purchasing, and planning was already done and he was a part of it. It’s not a stretch to think he was involved in the early stages of what we are seeing now.

So, there you have it, we’ll see if I’m right. Only time will tell. If you have a scene of economics and development, you’ll probably see the logic in my thinking on this.

I have no inside sources of information, I’m only using publicly available documents, historical tends and data, and simple logic to make this prediction.

One last thought, the next square will hold things for 10-15 years of a 20-30 year plan, were will the 5th square be located, my guess along Road 4 between Road B & C.

[tophcfa]

Very well thought out, researched and good information. Thanks goldwingnut. I would not bet against your prediction.

[champion6]

WOW! What a well written and thought provoking post. Great attachments.

[Bogie Shooter]

You just continue to amaze with your research and knowledge. Well done!

[NotGolfer]

Well you hit it right OP...The Villages developers always plan WAYYYY ahead and have to jump through hoops with the state and county to get these taken care of. The Infa-structure and all that goes with it. If you've ever worked with bureaucracy at any level that would be a no-brainer. I think the developer does things well. We have so many "arm chair" experts though, who have all the answers to what they think---along with much speculation plus rumor. I think I read somewhere (The Daily Sun?) about another town square (or two) in the planning. Much of what folks are "worrying" about, they'll love once it's in place. MUCH of their worry along those lines---they may not be here to even experience it. It takes time and lots of it. Thank you for your in depth post and information.

[NatureBoy]

We made our first visit to TV last summer, with an eye to moving there in about 5 years. The sales guy we met with gave us a map that shows Villages owned property down toward Leesburg on both sides of the turnpike. At the time I remember us speculating on where the next town square would be, and we picked somewhere in that area, too.

My guess is if we move into new construction we'll end up somewhere near 470.

[Velvet]

...

[goodtimesintv]

Criticize the developers however you want...and the ugliness will enter in here soon....

But The Villages is a model of longe-range planning and **fiscal responsibility** for the nation.

.

[Lottoguy]

Nice job on this!

[UptownBee]

Great job Don, thanks for taking the time to do this.

[stings]

Always intelligent, insightful thinking. All you do is well done and very much appreciated. Thank you.

[asianthree]

Thanks for putting together such a great post.

[howiethehook]

Absolutely outstanding. Thanks for your time and analytics! Always enjoy your coverage. Keep it up.

[Bogie Shooter]

I would like to see the developer buy up those Coleman prisons. I could see them relocated to the Everglades near the one already there. We do not need such a facility by the largest retirement community. All joking aside It would have been a deciding factor in buying if and where I would buy.

All joking aside...…..why even mention.

[Bjeanj]

Very nice. Thank you for the thoughtful information and analysis.

[MPhoto]

Excellent post! Thank you for your time, effort, and thoughtfulness is this post!

[JoMar]

I would like to see the developer buy up those Coleman prisons. I could see them relocated to the Everglades near the one already there. We do not need such a facility by the largest retirement community. All joking aside It would have been a deciding factor in buying if and where I would buy.

And this relates to the 4th town square how?

[Velvet]

If there is a choice of where to put the town square, don’t have a prison near it, please....

[Wavy Chips]

Excellent assessment by the OP. His pro posed location makes a lot of sense based on what we know publicly. He is correct that these types of decisions are planned out years in advance. In fact the name and location of the 5th town square has already been planned out, it's Tampa . . .

[bigallis1]

Excellent prediction. Thank you for your time and efforts...…….

[Packer Fan]

Now that is an awesome report! Thanks Don!

[Carpe Diem]

The proposed location near 470 totally makes sense. However, it is about 8 miles from Brownwood. The original post mentioned that Spanish Springs is 3 miles from Sumter Landing, and Sumter Landing is 6 miles from Brownwood.

That 4th square is going to have to serve an awful lot of people. Close to 100,000 Villagers . . . plus non-Villagers coming off the turnpike and new townfolk that move into the area because of the 20,000 new jobs created by the upcoming Villages Industrial area. (Just think about how many people the Industrial Park will bring into the area between Coleman, Sumterville, and Bushnell. In time, a new city will arise there. Many will be visiting the new square(s).)

That means there should be a 5th square in the works as well. Five miles from Square 4 could take you to Rte 48 near Center Hill, or more centralized (between proposed Rd 2 & 3) due north of Center Hill. And just think - Square 5 would be 22 miles from Spanish Springs, 19 miles from Sumter Landing, & 13 miles from Brownwood.

On a side note, the demographics should easily be able to support a minor league baseball franchise . . . so I hope they save a little land for something like that.

That 470 entry ramp onto the turnpike will be the only entrance serving this large population and will one day turn into one incredibly busy intersection. I've lived in cities where highway entry ramps were 1 1/2 miles apart. The two Villages ramps will be 8 1/2 miles apart. Although that may not seem workable, The Developer very diligently performs traffic studies so I imagine it will all work out.

[vintageogauge]

The proposed location near 470 totally makes sense. However, it is about 8 miles from Brownwood. The original post mentioned that Spanish Springs is 3 miles from Sumter Landing, and Sumter Landing is 6 miles from Brownwood.

That 4th square is going to have to serve an awful lot of people. Close to 100,000 Villagers . . . plus non-Villagers coming off the turnpike and new townfolk that move into the area because of the 20,000 new jobs created by the upcoming Villages Industrial area. (Just think about how many people the Industrial Park will bring into the area between Coleman, Sumterville, and Bushnell. In time, a new city will arise there. Many will be visiting the new square(s).)

That means there should be a 5th square in the works as well. Five miles from Square 4 could take you to Rte 48 near Center Hill, or more centralized (between proposed Rd 2 & 3) due north of Center Hill. And just think - Square 5 would be 22 miles from Spanish Springs, 19 miles from Sumter Landing, & 13 miles from Brownwood.

On a side note, the demographics should easily be able to support a minor league baseball franchise . . . so I hope they save a little land for something like that.

That 470 entry ramp onto the turnpike will be the only entrance serving this large population and will one day turn into one incredibly busy intersection. I've lived in cities where highway entry ramps were 1 1/2 miles apart. The two Villages ramps will be 8 1/2 miles apart. Although that may not seem workable, The Developer very diligently performs traffic studies so I imagine it will all work out.

There is also a proposed exit ramp off I-75 in Coleman at the industrial park. They have this all figured out even the intersection of 301 and Warm Springs Avenue which is a nightmare at times, I hope they get that figured out soon before someone gets killed.

[Goldwingnut]

The proposed location near 470 totally makes sense. However, it is about 8 miles from Brownwood. The original post mentioned that Spanish Springs is 3 miles from Sumter Landing, and Sumter Landing is 6 miles from Brownwood.

That 4th square is going to have to serve an awful lot of people. Close to 100,000 Villagers . . . plus non-Villagers coming off the turnpike and new townfolk that move into the area because of the 20,000 new jobs created by the upcoming Villages Industrial area. (Just think about how many people the Industrial Park will bring into the area between Coleman, Sumterville, and Bushnell. In time, a new city will arise there. Many will be visiting the new square(s).)

That means there should be a 5th square in the works as well. Five miles from Square 4 could take you to Rte 48 near Center Hill, or more centralized (between proposed Rd 2 & 3) due north of Center Hill. And just think - Square 5 would be 22 miles from Spanish Springs, 19 miles from Sumter Landing, & 13 miles from Brownwood.

On a side note, the demographics should easily be able to support a minor league baseball franchise . . . so I hope they save a little land for something like that.

That 470 entry ramp onto the turnpike will be the only entrance serving this large population and will one day turn into one incredibly busy intersection. I've lived in cities where highway entry ramps were 1 1/2 miles apart. The two Villages ramps will be 8 1/2 miles apart. Although that may not seem workable, The Developer very diligently performs traffic studies so I imagine it will all work out.

All good observations. I actually considered both the distances as well as the continued changes in density of houses that has occurred as the The Villages has continued to build southward.

The center of Brownwood to the point where the Sumter/Lake County line crosses CR470 is 7.25 miles (as the crow flies). A little farther than Sumter-Brownwood but there is a lot more open and non-Villages properties between resulting in a lower population density than the northern areas. The number of resident served would be similar.

If you look at the properties within the current Villages moving from north to south you seen a lot more open/green spaces and less density in the housing. The roads are wider with additional boulevard and shoulder grass areas. The reasons for this seem pretty obvious, money, these area all cost to build and take away from the number of units available for sale. Earlier on, when the business wasn't as big and financially robust unit sales drove cash flow. As The Villages has grown (substantially) the ability to shift from quantity to quality has become apparent; simply drive down Morse Blvd from north to south and you see substantial changes.

An additional consideration in the distances involved is that people are more willing to drive a little farther when they have a view or something interesting to look at besides houses. The emphasis being given to green/natural areas as building has continued has been profoundly significant. Why the big change in attitude? There are several possible answers with the truth being probably someplace in the middle. It could be altruism. It could be that the pasture land being used has more wetlands they are being tasked with preserving than the watermelon fields between 466 and 44 had. It could be the market demand for more properties with a view and the financial incentive these view sites bring. It could be that some land simply isn't physically or economically suitable for putting houses on. Again, it's likely a combination of off of the above.

Access will definitely be an issue in the decades to come, 470, 471, 301, 48, and 33 will all become major arteries as will the major roads that are shown on the map. This issue however is not the same as it is in other communities for one simple reason, it's a retirement community. We don't have the morning and evening rush hour traffic to and from work, we don't have the 7:00 AM rush of parents dropping kids off to school, and we don't have the major commercial and industrial areas within the developed areas that are the job centers. Will we see another Turnpike exit between 470 and 27? Likely so. With the additional development it would not be unthinkable that an additional or improved connection to I75 be constructed south of the Turnpike/I75 junction.

I think you are over estimating the size and impact of the 525E industrial area that The Villages is building, it's just over 65 acres so you may see a couple of hundred at best. The location of the complex is probably driven by the suppliers supporting the current and future construction. A prime example is Romac on Rolling Acres who make the ruff trusses, right now trucks roll every day from there to the areas under construction, this trip is getting longer every week and is costing extra time and money to the developer and the supplier. With a long term vision now in place, expanding/relocating their facilities to a closer location is highly likely, the 525E location is prime.

There will be a need for a larger workforce, more business, and all that goes with supporting the community and the workforce. Just like Disney and Universal don't build the hotels, highways, and airport in Orlando; it's not going to fall upon the developer to create these here. Lake and Sumter counties are working hard on economic development as they recognized the need to support the juggernaut that is driving the local economies in this area.

Obviously you're a baseball fan, I also like the idea of a minor league franchise or even a spring training camp for a major league team as an additional area attraction. Unfortunately, the demographics and economics of a large (nearly pure) residential community don't work as well at supporting such an activity as a mixed use metropolitan area where they are normally located.

[ColdNoMore]

On a slight tangent, at what point/distance does continued outlying development from Da Family...can no longer be considered 'The Villages?'

The distance/differences, between Lady Lake/Leesburg/Fruitland Park, which are all different towns...is less than what we have between say Spanish Springs and Fenney now.

Recognizing of course, that the branding and the address of 'The Villages' is a huge selling point, I can't help but wonder...if that might change in the future? :shrug:

[Goldwingnut]

On a slight tangent, at what point/distance does continued outlying development from Da Family...can no longer be considered 'The Villages?'

The distance/differences, between Lady Lake/Leesburg/Fruitland Park, which are all different towns...is less than what we have between say Spanish Springs and Fenney now.

Recognizing of course, that the branding and the address of 'The Villages' is a huge selling point, I can't help but wonder...if that might change in the future? :shrug:

How big can an island be? I think as long as the connectivity can be supported and that some scene on community can be maintained it will continue to grow. There is now and will continue to be a decoupling of the areas but not so much as to divide the development. I live near Brownwood, what happens in Spanish Springs or Mulberry Grove, or for that matter even Lake Sumter Landing, while of interest, is of little concern to me most days. The same can be said for those living in other areas about were I live.

What holds it all together is the diversity of people and interests in all the areas and that brings them together. I run the Drone Flyers Club and we have members from all areas of The Villages and we consider ourselves both friends and neighbors, regardless of the mile between. There is no community that is centered around one activity (baseball, boating, knitting, etc.) but yet these are communities that are internally connected to themselves through friendships while externally connected to the rest of The Villages through their activities and interests and subsequent friendships.

As long as we as residents hold the community together it can grow substantially larger without harm. It is when we start trying to divide and elevate ourselves, one area being better than another instead of just different and unique, that's when The Villages will start to become "too big" and will fail as a community. Yes the developer has built the buildings, golf courses, and the houses; but they build and move on, that's their station. It is the residents that have and will continue to make The Villages the great community that it is.

Perhaps I'm looking at things through rose colored glasses. I prefer to look at the positive aspects of living here, the friendships, community, and active lifestyle it has to offer, and not dwell on what I have no power over. Is it perfect, no far from it, but having lived all around the country and abroad, I can tell you it's pretty darn good and better than most anywhere else. An incredible place to retire.

[vintageogauge]

And I say Amen.

[Duppa]

Another "earlier" prediction for 4th Town Square... TOTV, January 14, 2018...

"01-14-2018, 01:07 PM
Duppa Duppa is online now
Member

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania, new home in the Village of Osceola Hills
Posts: 68
Default
Odds of a turnpike exchange at 468 (Morse)? I'd say absolutely zero... Look at the plans submitted, the maps... They report one thing: total TV development. It just makes no business sense to add Turnpike access at one of the BIGGEST "free" advertising spaces for TV in the world: the Turnpike bringing millions of tourists (and potential TV customers) into Central Florida and exciting as they go home. Tens of thousands of visitors every week will slow down to gander and gasp at the homes, golf-courses, ball parks, country-clubs, pools, recreation centers and all the rest...in full view before their eyes! "What is that dear?" "Is that that adult Disneyworld honey?" "Look it up?" "Maybe we can stop by for a peek on the way back home?" "Sure, we can get off at CR 470, the TV ap says there is something called a Town Square there... It's new too, says that the new Town Square is the 'gateway to America's Friendliest Hometown'" "Wow, let's go!"

It's all really fantastic; a brilliant business move that will bring wonderful things to all TV."

[dewilson58]

Since this thread is about a 4th Town Square.............Are we talking about diversity in Town Square styles???




:ohdear:

[billethkid]

Since this thread is about a 4th Town Square.............Are we talking about diversity in Town Square styles???




:ohdear:

That's it!!!! The existing squares are very diverse....eh!

[Velvet]

...

[Chi-Town]

Fourth and Fifth may be more like town centers than town squares. Lakewood Ranch in Bradenton/Sarasota is an example of the town center concept

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Velvet]

Just looked it up, Lakewood ranch at Bradenton is very nice.

[Goldwingnut]

Towne Square styles do make a large difference. We have a Spanish style, an an Urban style, and a Country style. Each one seems a little smaller and less expensive than the one before. So what is the prediction for the 4th one? Is it going to be a showcase, or just cheaper?

Actually the squares are close in size with LSL being slightly larger:
Spanish Springs 230x230 ft
Lake Sumter 230x300 ft
Brownwood 225x225 ft

Brownwood was probable the most expensive (even when adjusted for inflation) due to the stadium seating that was built.

The next town square I would bet will be larger and more elaborate as they have the land and if they put it where I've predicted, will be a bet more of a show place and attraction.

[Velvet]

...

[dewilson58]

Actually the squares are close in size with LSL being slightly larger:
Spanish Springs 230x230 ft
Lake Sumter 230x300 ft
Brownwood 225x225 ft

Brownwood was probable the most expensive (even when adjusted for inflation) due to the stadium seating that was built.

The next town square I would bet will be larger and more elaborate as they have the land and if they put it where I've predicted, will be a bet more of a show place and attraction.




I do like the addition of stadium seating as an option: Viewing, Shade, Rain Coverage.

[vintageogauge]

I do like the addition of stadium seating as an option: Viewing, Shade, Rain Coverage.

Agree

[champion6]

Since this thread is about a 4th Town Square.............Are we talking about diversity in Town Square styles???YES! I predict that the next town square will be ... ROUND!

[Velvet]

...

[vintageogauge]

That question strikes me as difficult as asking what would represent a sufficient number of let’s just say, Australian people in TV. Why define diversity as only color of skin?

Why are you even discussing this here, all you are going to do is hurt someones feelings. Stick to the topic.

[Velvet]

Location of town squares: near good transportation, away from prison, if that is possible.

[ColdNoMore]

I wonder what town the next square will be in?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I wonder what town the next square will be in?

I'll put 20 coins on Port St. Lucie.

[Bucco]

KUDOS to ALL posters. A great and informative thread.

[skip0358]

Heard a rumor the next Square will be Round !

[Goldwingnut]

I wonder what town the next square will be in?

Assuming it's built on property that is currently known to be owned by the developer and that the developer keeps to their agreement with Sumter County then the only possible answer is Wildwood. All the properties announced as purchased or being developed by the developer are in the city limits of Wildwood (including the latest 18,000 acres) with the exception of the West Lakes/Leesburg section.

[vintageogauge]

Assuming it's built on property that is currently known to be owned by the developer and that the developer keeps to their agreement with Sumter County then the only possible answer is Wildwood. All the properties announced as purchased or being developed by the developer are in the city limits of Wildwood (including the latest 18,000 acres) with the exception of the West Lakes/Leesburg section.

I think they still have a large parcel west of the Red Fox golf course in Coleman but that area wouldn't really make sense for a square.

[ColdNoMore]

I think they still have a large parcel west of the Red Fox golf course in Coleman but that area wouldn't really make sense for a square.

Yeah, it might get a bit old constantly listening to...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZJTgYzf9FE



:D

[vintageogauge]

Yeah, it might get a bit old constantly listening to...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZJTgYzf9FE



:D

Jealousy will get you nowhere.

[ColdNoMore]

Jealousy will get you nowhere.

Trust me.... :1rotfl:

[Carpe Diem]

I think you are over estimating the size and impact of the 525E industrial area that The Villages is building, it's just over 65 acres so you may see a couple of hundred at best.

Do a Google search on Monarch Ranch / PJ Sola. 3,000 acres (2,000 develop-able) north of 468 and Coleman. The property is bordered by 75 / Turnpike / railroad. It's already being prepared to be a major distribution center (Amazon?). Million dollar SWFWMD environmental studies, Duke Energy projects already approved. Another turnpike entrance discussed. It's going to bring a LOT more people to the area. Really hope TV can find enough people to work in the retirement community. Almost going to have to build housing for them. (I don't know if The Villages owns Monarch Ranch.)

I'd like to see a mini Orlando-like skyline with a downtown area at the place where 75 & the turnpike split. Perhaps a monorail from just south of Brownwood to it. No way that happens, but hey we're getting that big. HA!

Would also like to see TV build a few premier type neighborhoods within its confines to attract good doctors and other professionals.

[Carpe Diem]

If you look at the properties within the current Villages moving from north to south you see a lot more open/green spaces and less density in the housing. The roads are wider with additional boulevard and shoulder grass areas. The reasons for this seem pretty obvious, money, these areas all cost to build and take away from the number of units available for sale. Earlier on, when the business wasn't as big and financially robust unit sales drove cash flow. As The Villages has grown (substantially) the ability to shift from quantity to quality has become apparent; simply drive down Morse Blvd from north to south and you see substantial changes.


Interesting comment concerning "open/space." Even though the houses in The Villages are tightly packed - golf courses, wetlands and the broad corridors that are Buena Vista and Morse Blvds create a sense of expansiveness. Leave your neighborhood, hit a primary road and you almost feel like you are out in the country.

Both Buena Vista & Morse will be ending. The two primary boulevards will be Meggison and Marsh Bend (and maybe Corbin Trail). It will be interesting to see how broad those corridors end up being and how much open area is adjacent to them. That is, will the drive be as impressive as Buena Vista and Morse?

The drive along Morse from 466 to 466a is amazing. Although the Developer continues to be creative, I don't think they can duplicate the Morse drive. Hopefully, they have a desire to do just that along these new boulevards.

On the golf course side of "expansiveness," there doesn't seem to be very many planned for the area south of Brownwood and the recently approved phases of development. If not, hopefully stands of trees and wetlands are planned to serve that purpose. (I think Chitty Chatty has a lot of that - but no golf course.)

Don't know why I bring this up. I'm sure everything has already been planned out (thinking back to the road map in your first post).