Golf Course conditions

[RockyMountainMan]

I have been living in the villages for 7 years now. I moved from Colorado in retirement which was a long distance move. One of the reasons for moving here was that the golf courses were pristine and well maintained. I could have easily found another retirement area in Arizona but with a few less amenities but I chose the villages.

After playing mostly the championship courses over the past several months the golf courses in the villages have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer enjoyable to play...as I call them a "goat ranch." After speaking to one the managers at one of the clubs I asked why the courses no longer "overseed" with rye grass in the winter. After several reasons which I disagreed with, I have come to the conclusion that it is all about the money.

I hear, see and read about the wonderful growth of the villages and what a great thing it is for the quality of life here. After seeing the increase in traffic, lack of retail and commercial areas and the condition of the golf courses, I am getting the sense that the villages is becoming just another large city...yes city (pop. at 130K going to over 200K in the next several years).

Unless more attention is paid to the things I have mentioned earlier, I'm afraid the overbuilding and lack of maintenance will be a detriment to people thinking of moving to the villages.

[Bogie Shooter]

Try Cane Garden......

[Bruce zapolski]

You hit the nail on the head it’s a real shame that the owners allow this to happen .The Villages are no longer known for there courses.play outside as much as you can.

[Edjkoz]

Now that the new rates for Summer have come out, I just want to know what I’m going to get for the addition money? Pristine greens?, lush fairways? Better tee times? I don’t mind paying extra for something but I would expect a little in return

[Aw Man]

I have been living in the villages for 7 years now. I moved from Colorado in retirement which was a long distance move. One of the reasons for moving here was that the golf courses were pristine and well maintained. I could have easily found another retirement area in Arizona but with a few less amenities but I chose the villages.

After playing mostly the championship courses over the past several months the golf courses in the villages have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer enjoyable to play...as I call them a "goat ranch." After speaking to one the managers at one of the clubs I asked why the courses no longer "overseed" with rye grass in the winter. After several reasons which I disagreed with, I have come to the conclusion that it is all about the money.

I hear, see and read about the wonderful growth of the villages and what a great thing it is for the quality of life here. After seeing the increase in traffic, lack of retail and commercial areas and the condition of the golf courses, I am getting the sense that the villages is becoming just another large city...yes city (pop. at 130K going to over 200K in the next several years).

Unless more attention is paid to the things I have mentioned earlier, I'm afraid the overbuilding and lack of maintenance will be a detriment to people thinking of moving to the villages.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
I've lived here full time for 5 years.
For the benefit of readers of this forum who may be considering a move to The Villages, please know that I couldn't disagree more with the statements and opinions expressed in the above post.

[dewilson58]

Played Cane Garden this morning......Great Shape.


Couple greens, with a couple SMALL spots needing and getting attention.


Continuing to love this place.

[ColdNoMore]

I have been living in the villages for 7 years now. I moved from Colorado in retirement which was a long distance move. One of the reasons for moving here was that the golf courses were pristine and well maintained. I could have easily found another retirement area in Arizona but with a few less amenities but I chose the villages.

After playing mostly the championship courses over the past several months the golf courses in the villages have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer enjoyable to play...as I call them a "goat ranch." After speaking to one the managers at one of the clubs I asked why the courses no longer "overseed" with rye grass in the winter. After several reasons which I disagreed with, I have come to the conclusion that it is all about the money.

I hear, see and read about the wonderful growth of the villages and what a great thing it is for the quality of life here. After seeing the increase in traffic, lack of retail and commercial areas and the condition of the golf courses, I am getting the sense that the villages is becoming just another large city...yes city (pop. at 130K going to over 200K in the next several years).

Unless more attention is paid to the things I have mentioned earlier, I'm afraid the overbuilding and lack of maintenance will be a detriment to people thinking of moving to the villages.

Having first rented here about 10 years ago and purchasing almost 7 years ago...I couldn't agree with you more.

I can't help but wonder though, if the deterioration of 'some' of the champ courses (I don't play exec's)...is totally by accident/lack of funding?

I'm thinking that Da Family, as exhibited by what's going on down south with big courses not coming close to keeping up with the increasing residency...is actually in 'The Plan.'

As golf loses participation in general, it's my opinion that an emphasis is being put toward what Da Family thinks...will be the biggest draw to future retirees. :shrug:

I wouldn't even be surprised, that if in the next 10 years or so one or two of the older/less popular championship courses (and maybe exec's)...are closed for good.

Which is certainly not unheard of, given the number of golf courses nationwide...that have closed in the last decade.


Golf Course Closures (poke here) (http://startribune.com/wave-of-golf-course-closures-leaves-owners-stuck-in-the-rough/391352721/)

More than 800 golf courses have closed nationwide in the last decade, as operators grapple with declining interest in the sport and a glut of competition.

Many of those shuttered courses were built on land proscribed from redevelopment by local zoning codes seeking to preserve open space — or, as with Ahwatukee, by deed restrictions intended to protect homeowners who had paid a *premium to live near a golf course.


After all, they do take up a whole lot of real estate that could be turned into new housing, or other money-making ventures...that have a much greater value.

Just a thought. :ho:

[Bogie Shooter]

where are these older/less popular courses.....there must be a lot of tee times available. Help, I will put them in my next request.

[tophcfa]

[QUOTE=ColdNoMore;1640003][SIZE="2"]Having first rented here about 10 years ago and purchasing almost 7 years ago...I couldn't agree with you more.

I can't help but wonder though, if the deterioration of 'some' of the champ courses (I don't play exec's)...is totally by accident/lack of funding?

I'm thinking that Da Family, as exhibited by what's going on down south with big courses not coming close to keeping up with the increasing residency...is actually in 'The Plan.'

As golf loses participation in general, it's my opinion that an emphasis is being put toward what Da Family thinks...will be the biggest draw to future retirees. :shrug:

I agree, there seems to be a new emphasis being put on other things besides golf, as well as other subtle changes such as the type of music (both in the squares and played on WVLG) that indicate the developers are changing their focus to draw a new generation of retirees. Unfortunately, we bought in the Villages because we loved the way things were and not because we want to enjoy things that future generations might put a greater emphasis on. That being said, it's still a great place that we enjoy a lot. We just don't want to see what we bought into change.

[bagboy]

Played Cane Garden this morning......Great Shape.


Couple greens, with a couple SMALL spots needing and getting attention.


Continuing to love this place.

And, it's been recently reported that Tiera Del Sol and Hacienda are in very good condition .

[ColdNoMore]

I agree, there seems to be a new emphasis being put on other things besides golf, as well as other subtle changes such as the type of music (both in the squares and played on WVLG) that indicate the developers are changing their focus to draw a new generation of retirees. Unfortunately, we bought in the Villages because we loved the way things were and not because we want to enjoy things that future generations might put a greater emphasis on. That being said, it's still a great place that we enjoy a lot. We just don't want to see what we bought into change.

"Change" can be hard to accept...for a lot of people.


But like the old saying goes; "The only constant in life...IS change."


:ho:

[Velvet]

If TV did not keep up with the times in every way it would slowly turn into a ghost town.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If TV did not keep up with the times in every way it would slowly turn into a ghost town. My relatives who bought here 40 years ago had very different preferences than I do. I myself don’t play golf but plan to learn to play to enjoy the beautiful courses. What I’d really like is simply to join a group that actually plays and I walk hole to hole with them. Not actually to have to hit anything. Just to enjoy the course.

This, a thousand times over.

People who bought in the 1980's, were already 55+ then. That means they're 85+ now. Life happens. And life ends. Those houses would be vacant, if you didn't ever keep up. That doesn't mean you have to embrace every trend that comes along, but you do need to provide for some generational shifting.

Also if Sirius Radio works in the Villages, there are TONS of oldies stations you can listen to. My husband prefers 1950's music and the Grateful Dead, while I prefer AOR (album-oriented rock). People complaining about the radio station sound like they don't realize other options exist. I find that incredibly odd.

edited to add: I don't know if Sirius works in the Villages because I don't have the subscription for my car. My husband has it for his truck, and he hasn't driven down yet. We've flown the last few times we've been there, including when we bought the house last month.

As for other amenities, I think there's enough of a variety to suit pretty much every taste.

[thomp679]

I agree with those that are saying change will come to some of the golf courses and you will see shifts in land use. It is happening all over the country so why would it not occur here. I would expect The Villages to lag this trend as is occuring, but that time gap in the lag continues to get smaller.

[rjn5656]

Golf was the reason I moved here. Has been disappointing year over year.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I really don't understand the disappointment at all. Most folks move to golf communities for the golf. I get that. But most golf communities don't have around 40 9-hole courses and over a dozen 18-hole courses. Most golf communities don't even have 5 9-holes and 2 championships. And the other golf communities cost a lot more to live there, more in membership fees, more in HOA fees, have fewer amenities, and you generally can't stop at the supermarket on your way home from the 18th hole to grab a quart of milk, with your golf cart.

This is a golf community and there are DOZENS of courses you can choose from. If several are in bad shape, there are still several in good shape. It's likely you'll get out on one of the better-kept courses at least a few times every week, as long as you don't insist on only going to the ones that are in bad shape. That's how I'm perceiving it, so I'm not really understanding why it's a problem.

[RockyMountainMan]

Just a response to all who answered my initial post.The reason I chose the villages was the sheer amount of EXCELLENT golf courses. If it now comes down to one or two champ. courses out of 13 that are in DECENT condition, I can get that anywhere without the traffic and hour waits in restaurants. Some other retirement communities offer one or two courses and that's fine. That's why I chose NOT to move there. I pay amenity fees and greens fees so that ALL the courses create a variety for me to play. To AW MAN's post that you disagree with everything I said...you either don't play golf on the championship courses or you're not aware of what a real golf course should look and play like. Most logical people I talk with agree that the growth here and the conditions of the courses have eroded the quality of life...and if others can't see that I think it's time to remove your rose colored glasses!

[CFrance]

This, a thousand times over.

People who bought in the 1980's, were already 55+ then. That means they're 85+ now. Life happens. And life ends. Those houses would be vacant, if you didn't ever keep up. That doesn't mean you have to embrace every trend that comes along, but you do need to provide for some generational shifting.

Also if Sirius Radio works in the Villages, there are TONS of oldies stations you can listen to. My husband prefers 1950's music and the Grateful Dead, while I prefer AOR (album-oriented rock). People complaining about the radio station sound like they don't realize other options exist. I find that incredibly odd.

edited to add: I don't know if Sirius works in the Villages because I don't have the subscription for my car. My husband has it for his truck, and he hasn't driven down yet. We've flown the last few times we've been there, including when we bought the house last month.

As for other amenities, I think there's enough of a variety to suit pretty much every taste.
I think the opposition to the music is that there is one station that is broadcast out of every single speaker in every single square. I have nothing against the type of music they play, just that they play it, and I can't turn it off or down when I'm in a square. Perhaps you haven't yet been to a square and don't understand the opposition.


As for the golf courses and your not understanding what the problem is, I would ask how many golf courses in TV you have played on, and over what period of time. I think you might not have been here long enough to understand some of the current problems some golfers, especially the serious ones, are experiencing.

[Bogie Shooter]

I think the opposition to the music is that there is one station that is broadcast out of every single speaker in every single square. I have nothing against the type of music they play, just that they play it, and I can't turn it off or down when I'm in a square. Perhaps you haven't yet been to a square and don't understand the opposition.


As for the golf courses and your not understanding what the problem is, I would ask how many golf courses in TV you have played on, and over what period of time. I think you might not have been here long enough to understand some of the current problems some golfers, especially the serious ones, are experiencing.
:clap2:

[waynet]

As far playing the courses that are in decent shape, please realize you are not guaranteed that golf course when you input courses and times. AS FOR CONDITIONS,when people who work at these courses tell you to omit them from the rotation, you know something is wrong.

[Polar Bear]

...the conditions of the courses have eroded the quality of life...and if others can't see that I think it's time to remove your rose colored glasses!
So if golf course conditions are not that great, then quality of life in TV is poor. And if others don't understand that their quality of life is poor because of the golf course conditions, then they are blind.

Wow. chilout

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I think the opposition to the music is that there is one station that is broadcast out of every single speaker in every single square. I have nothing against the type of music they play, just that they play it, and I can't turn it off or down when I'm in a square. Perhaps you haven't yet been to a square and don't understand the opposition.


As for the golf courses and your not understanding what the problem is, I would ask how many golf courses in TV you have played on, and over what period of time. I think you might not have been here long enough to understand some of the current problems some golfers, especially the serious ones, are experiencing.

Yes I've been to the squares several times, and have heard the music. Many of the speakers don't work, so nothing comes out of them at all. Some of them are louder than others, it seems, and it also depends on whether or not you're facing them or facing away from them. I don't really pay attention to the sound coming from those speakers at all. It's just background noise, to me. The gas-powered golf carts driving by are louder and obscure anything that'd come from the speakers anyway.

As for golf, I'm not a golfer. My husband is, but I'm not. It doesn't matter that I'm not though, because the courses should be somewhat attractive, whether I'm playing on them or not. That's part of what my amenity fee is paying for. If it's in *bad* shape, it should be repaired. But if there are 40 executive courses and half of them need to be repaired, there's still 20 more executive courses. At $159/month, for access to 20 executive courses in good shape plus all the other amenities, I'm not seeing why this would be "disappointing" or that people aren't getting their money's worth or being ripped off.

If you were paying the typical HOA fee for a single-course community in Georgia or South Carolina, you'd suffer from sticker shock. It's the hue and cry that I'm not understanding. I DO understand that you absolutely positively deserve to have these courses in good shape.

But it's not like there aren't any courses to play at, or that you can get zero tee-times at any of the good ones, at all during the week. There are, and you can. Not as many as there arguably should be, but I think for $159/month what you are getting shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So if golf course conditions are not that great, then quality of life in TV is poor. And if others don't understand that their quality of life is poor because of the golf course conditions, then they are blind.

Wow. chilout

This response is the shorter version of mine. It speaks exactly to WHY I'm confused.

[YouNeverKnow]

So if golf course conditions are not that great, then quality of life in TV is poor. And if others don't understand that their quality of life is poor because of the golf course conditions, then they are blind.

Wow. chilout
Played Bogart today. Pictures say it all! There was no way you could putt on the “greens.” Nuff said! Sorry the pictures are sideways but they look just as bad right side up!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Played Bogart today. See pictures Nuff said! Can’t turn the pictures so they aren’t sideways. 😳

That's pretty pathetic. Is it indicative of all the other courses? What do the best of the Exec look like? How many of the execs are in this horrible shape? How many are in *good* shape? How many are in "tolerable" shape?

Of the ones in bad shape, how many are in the process of being repaired?

[ColdNoMore]

Played Bogart today. Pictures say it all! There was no way you could putt on the “greens.” Nuff said! Sorry the pictures are sideways but they look just as bad right side up!

Even a "blind" person...can see how bad that is. :oops:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What's all that white stuff making the track marks in the 2nd photo, and peppering that grid area in the 3rd photo? And why is the grid area a grid area? As I've said several times in my several hundred posts on this forum - I don't play golf. But I spent the first 30 years of my life within walking distance of a golf course and used to hang out on it after the golfers left for the day. My grandparents were charter members of a country club that had a beautiful course, and then they lived in a community in Florida that had a gorgeous well-kept course. So I'm not completely ignorant of what they should look like. Just never seen that grid pattern or white powder dumped all over one before.

[anothersteve]

What's all that white stuff making the track marks in the 2nd photo, and peppering that grid area in the 3rd photo? And why is the grid area a grid area? As I've said several times in my several hundred posts on this forum - I don't play golf. But I spent the first 30 years of my life within walking distance of a golf course and used to hang out on it after the golfers left for the day. My grandparents were charter members of a country club that had a beautiful course, and then they lived in a community in Florida that had a gorgeous well-kept course. So I'm not completely ignorant of what they should look like. Just never seen that grid pattern or white powder dumped all over one before.

To anyone that knows golf, that green is aerated and sanded, pretty normal stuff. I would advise anyone to get an aeration schedule from any champ course.
Steve

[HIgolfers]

Steve- I have a copy of the aerification schedule and it says Bogart will be aerated June 4-6. So that does not explain it. All I know is that Bogart is unplayable right now. Other exec courses are not as bad (although admittedly I don't golf exec that often) so I guess you just avoid this one. AS FOR CHAMP, right now Evans, Belle Glade and Cane are in the best condition. Havana is terrible- greens OK but fairways deplorable. Bonifay- meh. Have not played the other champs recently.

[anothersteve]

Steve- I have a copy of the aerification schedule and it says Bogart will be aerated June 4-6. So that does not explain it.

That really doesn't matter about the schedule, the greens are still aerated. They are trying to fix a problem sooner than later. Why people would moan and groan about this on any course, is beyond me. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. In a couple of months, with more rain and with less play that I am noticing already, most, if not all courses will be just fine. Take that as you will, that's the last I'm going to say (well maybe) on this subject. All's I can do is shake my head at some of the ridiculous posts, without naming any in particular.
Steve

[YouNeverKnow]

That really doesn't matter about the schedule, the greens are still aerated. They are trying to fix a problem sooner than later. Why people would moan and groan about this on any course, is beyond me. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. In a couple of months, with more rain and with less play that I am noticing already, most, if not all courses will be just fine. Take that as you will, that's the last I'm going to say (well maybe) on this subject. All's I can do is shake my head at some of the ridiculous posts, without naming any in particular.
Steve
Been playing courses here for six years both executive and championship. Those are not aerated greens. There are huge areas of black bare dirt and large holes on all the greens where there is no grass at all. We talked to one of the maintence guys on Bogart today and he said they have thrown fertilizer, sand, and spray paint on the greens and surrounding areas around the greens. He seems genuinely out of explanations for the conditions. No aeration!

[anothersteve]

Been playing courses here for six years both executive and championship. Those are not aerated greens. There are huge areas of black bare dirt and large holes on all the greens where there is no grass at all. We talked to one of the maintence guys on Bogart today and he said they have thrown fertilizer, sand, and spray paint on the greens and surrounding areas around the greens. He seems genuinely out of explanations for the conditions. No aeration!

That green is aerated and sanded. I've seen it enough to know
Steve

[ColdNoMore]

Played Bogart today. Pictures say it all! There was no way you could putt on the “greens.” Nuff said! Sorry the pictures are sideways but they look just as bad right side up!

Doze it and turn it into a...'Putt & Play.' :D




With lots of vehicle parking. :1rotfl:

[Bogie Shooter]

What's all that white stuff making the track marks in the 2nd photo, and peppering that grid area in the 3rd photo? And why is the grid area a grid area? As I've said several times in my several hundred posts on this forum - I don't play golf. But I spent the first 30 years of my life within walking distance of a golf course and used to hang out on it after the golfers left for the day. My grandparents were charter members of a country club that had a beautiful course, and then they lived in a community in Florida that had a gorgeous well-kept course. So I'm not completely ignorant of what they should look like. Just never seen that grid pattern or white powder dumped all over one before.
As you said, I am not a golfer. Maybe that explains why you haven't seen it before. Oh wait, you don't live here yet. Soon, when you do, a lot of your questions will be answered.

[CFrance]

That really doesn't matter about the schedule, the greens are still aerated. They are trying to fix a problem sooner than later. Why people would moan and groan about this on any course, is beyond me. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. In a couple of months, with more rain and with less play that I am noticing already, most, if not all courses will be just fine. Take that as you will, that's the last I'm going to say (well maybe) on this subject. All's I can do is shake my head at some of the ridiculous posts, without naming any in particular.
Steve
Ya know... I'm just a casual golfer and not all that competent at judging one course from another, so although I have been on greens that I thought were not in good shape, I have no expertise.


However, enough people are complaining, and a lot of people are saying wait until the snowbirds go home. But the whole idea is to have full occupancy in the winter months, and the weather and activities and golf are advertised as such. Do they ever say Come Down on the Off Season and Find Great Golf Course Conditions?


My opinion is that the courses should be maintained to a higher standard during the high season, because that's what TV is all about, the winter warmth and the outdoor activities.

[Shbullet]

Ya know... I'm just a casual golfer and not all that competent at judging one course from another, so although I have been on greens that I thought were not in good shape, I have no expertise.


However, enough people are complaining, and a lot of people are saying wait until the snowbirds go home. But the whole idea is to have full occupancy in the winter months, and the weather and activities and golf are advertised as such. Do they ever say Come Down on the Off Season and Find Great Golf Course Conditions?




My opinion is that the courses should be maintained to a higher standard during the high season, because that's what TV is all about, the winter warmth and the outdoor activities.

That is it in a nutshell,,! And those that dont want to hear the concerns about the conditions should stay off the thread so they wont be so bothered by the comments. Waiting for the summer to enjoy good conditions is such a shortsighted solution and answer.

[birdiebill]

The white “stuff” on the greens is sand. The greens on most of the courses I have played recently have been top dressed with a thin layer of sand. The aerification will come through the next six to 8 weeks. The sand is spread and dragged to help create a smooth surface for grass growth.

Apparently several people do not realize that Bermuda grass, which is on all the greens, (and fairways), does NOT grow in the cooler months. As our temperatures warm now, the Bermuda grass comes out of dormancy unevenly. No matter what maintenance does, they can not make Bermuda grass grow in cold/cool temperatures. The warmer the winter months here, the better chance there will be some Bermuda grass growth. Conversely colder temperatures or longer lasting cold spells preclude Bermuda grass growth.

Overseeing with rye grass used to be done on tees and greens, but there are some problems with that especially as the Bermuda comes out of dormancy and the rye grass dies off in the heat of spring. I did some self directed research on the internet of the advantages/disadvantages of overseeding. Interesting reading.

I play mainly championship courses and have found most are fine this time of year considering the grass is dormant. Orange Blossom, Tierra de Sol, Mallory, Cane, Belle Glade, Hacienda Hills all okay. Haven’t played others recently. I seldom play execs in the winter, but recently played Escambia. I thought the greens were fine except for being slow due to the top dressing of sand.

[anothersteve]

The white “stuff” on the greens is sand. The greens on most of the courses I have played recently have been top dressed with a thin layer of sand. The aerification will come through the next six to 8 weeks. The sand is spread and dragged to help create a smooth surface for grass growth.

Apparently several people do not realize that Bermuda grass, which is on all the greens, (and fairways), does NOT grow in the cooler months. As our temperatures warm now, the Bermuda grass comes out of dormancy unevenly. No matter what maintenance does, they can not make Bermuda grass grow in cold/cool temperatures. The warmer the winter months here, the better chance there will be some Bermuda grass growth. Conversely colder temperatures or longer lasting cold spells preclude Bermuda grass growth.

Overseeing with rye grass used to be done on tees and greens, but there are some problems with that especially as the Bermuda comes out of dormancy and the rye grass dies off in the heat of spring. I did some self directed research on the internet of the advantages/disadvantages of overseeding. Interesting reading.

I play mainly championship courses and have found most are fine this time of year considering the grass is dormant. Orange Blossom, Tierra de Sol, Mallory, Cane, Belle Glade, Hacienda Hills all okay. Haven’t played others recently. I seldom play execs in the winter, but recently played Escambia. I thought the greens were fine except for being slow due to the top dressing of sand.

Thank you Bill!
Steve

[Northwoods]

I am a golfer and I agree the greens (especially on the executive courses I've played) are in poor condition. I hope that over the summer they will be able to fix the issues. But I still love living here. I love all the golfing options, but it's not the only reason I live here. I've made great friends and I love all the activities. It's a well maintained, beautiful place to live. The "HOA" fee pays for so much more than golf course maintenance. And that fee is unbelievably reasonable.
What frustrates me is that so many people expect "The Developer" to fix things. "Fix the Villages Regional Hospital, fix the golf courses, stop selling homes because it's getting too big/too much traffic and I don't like that."
If there comes a time The Villages doesn't have what I'm looking for... I will move to a community that better fits my needs. But I'm not going to blame The Developer... I believe they are trying to do the right thing for the people that live here. And I certainly don't begrudge them for making a profit on what they are doing.

[Challenger]

played Pimlico today. Can't remember ever seeing any golf track in a condition as poor as this. Tees ,Fairways and Greens all substandard

[JoMar]

Just a response to all who answered my initial post.The reason I chose the villages was the sheer amount of EXCELLENT golf courses. If it now comes down to one or two champ. courses out of 13 that are in DECENT condition, I can get that anywhere without the traffic and hour waits in restaurants. Some other retirement communities offer one or two courses and that's fine. That's why I chose NOT to move there. I pay amenity fees and greens fees so that ALL the courses create a variety for me to play. To AW MAN's post that you disagree with everything I said...you either don't play golf on the championship courses or you're not aware of what a real golf course should look and play like. Most logical people I talk with agree that the growth here and the conditions of the courses have eroded the quality of life...and if others can't see that I think it's time to remove your rose colored glasses!

For those whose life is only about golf....you might be right. If you moved here because of golf and had an expectation that can't be met....now what do you do? I lived in PA where we had some great conditions....they were a different grass, they were only played on regularly 8 months a year and didn't approach the number of rounds that get played here. I assume you have an intimate knowledge on what it takes to maintain a golf course and have extensive experience in this area, otherwise your comments and judgement is personal opinion only. Those that are enjoying the golf here have their opinions also but your insinuation that they are wearing rose colored glasses because they disagree with you is both rude and insulting. JMO

[anothersteve]

For those whose life is only about golf....you might be right. If you moved here because of golf and had an expectation that can't be met....now what do you do? I lived in PA where we had some great conditions....they were a different grass, they were only played on regularly 8 months a year and didn't approach the number of rounds that get played here. I assume you have an intimate knowledge on what it takes to maintain a golf course and have extensive experience in this area, otherwise your comments and judgement is personal opinion only. Those that are enjoying the golf here have their opinions also but your insinuation that they are wearing rose colored glasses because they disagree with you is both rude and insulting. JMO

Thank you!
Steve

[Northwoods]

:bigbow:For those whose life is only about golf....you might be right. If you moved here because of golf and had an expectation that can't be met....now what do you do? I lived in PA where we had some great conditions....they were a different grass, they were only played on regularly 8 months a year and didn't approach the number of rounds that get played here. I assume you have an intimate knowledge on what it takes to maintain a golf course and have extensive experience in this area, otherwise your comments and judgement is personal opinion only. Those that are enjoying the golf here have their opinions also but your insinuation that they are wearing rose colored glasses because they disagree with you is both rude and insulting. JMO

[coach]

I played Mallory today. Greens were in wonderful condition.

[Shbullet]

NAILED IT! :thumbup:


Although by now I shouldn't be shocked, the number of people who make excuses for those maintaining the courses, while they have declined in the last decade to the point where the majority compare poorly to even the 'average' muni...is still disappointing.


I guess as long as folks are willing to accept these poor conditions (nay, even support them), the incentive to put the effort/money into making them better...is greatly reduced. :ohdear:

I agree completely. It seems that many , in their previous lives, were poor, controlling managers that couldn't stand the thought of an employee complaining about the way things were being run. Its a shame that some would try to protect the way courses are being presented, when clearly they are in poor shape, and absolutely cant stand the thought that many customers would dare complain on their perceived watch. Why would you protect something that clearly is a problem?

[Shbullet]

Thank you!
Steve

Its no sillier than hearing that when paying customers go home for the summer everything will be better.

[Shbullet]

I played Mallory today. Greens were in wonderful condition.

Good to hear

[Moderator]

This thread has devolved from discussing the condition of the executive courses to discussing the posters themselves. Please return to the topic of the course conditions. Posts directed at members will be deleted.

Moderator

[Shbullet]

Golfed at water oaks today, just off 466 and 27. Greens, fairways and teeboxes were in excellent shape. Some of the fairways were over 200 yds of rich , green grass. They were actually watering them as we played them. What a awesome experience, I just cant help but wonder why many of the executives, championships in the villages lack this attention. Hope this doesn't offend anyone but I was truly impressed by this course.

[Love2Swim]

I agree with the original poster. Many of the people I golf with have expressed dissatisfaction with the general condition of the "championship" golf courses. There always seems to be 2 or 3 that are in good condition, some that are in horrible condition, and the rest are fair to mediocre. I spoke with one of the golf course managers and he blamed it on the maintenance companies. Some are better than others, and if you have a contract with a company that does a poor job, it takes awhile to fire the company, get a new one, then get on the right track to improving the conditions again. Its too bad The Villages doesn't have their own maintenance company that could keep the courses up to good standards. In the long run, it would probably be cheaper than hiring it out to third parties. If you are considering moving to the Villages, be forewarned that many of the people who post on TOTV will bash anyone who expresses an opinion that The Villages needs improvement in any way. They seem to take it personally if you don't like the way the Villages does things, or you comment about the poor conditions of the golf courses, overcrowding at aerobic classes, parking problems at Fenney, or whatever. Nothing in life is ever perfect, and there is always room for improvement, including The Villages.

[Fourpar]

I play championship courses 3+ times a week, and I have been here since 2007. I have never seen the courses in worse shape tee to green. When I bought here the courses were maintained quite well, and in the winter they over seeded tee to green. Bunkers were maintained daily, and the courses really enjoyable to play. This winter (and last) they by and large resemble a $25Muni. Its a shame and not in keeping with the whole "Villages Persona".

[Buckeye Bob]

Hacienda Hills is in great shape.

[Best2bgolfing]

I play mostly Exec courses but in the past three years I can see both Exec and Champ courses being in stressed. I think the fairway grass is cut to often and to short. I can rarely use my wedge around the green. Most of the time I putt from 5 or more yards off the green.
I do remember when rye grass was put down in the fairway for the winter months. Now only Tee boxes. Was there a $$ reason for stopping the winter rye process. Please give the fairway at least 1 1/2 inches at cut height.

[Garwood1]

I only will say that we pay a premium price to play the championship courses and the conditions do not match the price in most cases , and we provide our own carts

[Lynnesail]

Well-stated! Slow down the growth and maintain what we have.

[dewilson58]

I only will say that we pay a premium price to play the championship courses and the conditions do not match the price in most cases , and we provide our own carts






:loco:

[CharlesNT]

My wife and I had the same opinion, in general most courses were in mediocre shape at best, with some exceptions (the courses at Havana, Churchill Greens come to mind). In the end we were playing 50/50 Villages and off campus. Most of the people we were paired up with had similar comments about the conditions.

We have been coming for short visits for 12 years and don't remember the conditions being as bad ever. This was our first long term stay and were looking forward to it, but were disappointed with the conditions and plan to look at other communities before making a decision on where to put down our retirement roots.

One of our friends who is a year round Villager did mention his understanding is there are multiple companies hired to maintain the courses, and a new one was brought in this year. Could this explain why the conditions vary so widely at different courses?

[Bay Kid]

I only will say that we pay a premium price to play the championship courses and the conditions do not match the price in most cases , and we provide our own carts

Do they charge extra to use their carts after paying +$60. for a round?

[ColdNoMore]

Do they charge extra to use their carts after paying +$60. for a round?

Only if you rent one of the course's carts.

It's been a while since I've had to do that (I once decided a cart ride to Orange Blossom wasn't worth it, so rented one of theirs)...but I believe it was only like $10 if you're a resident.

If a quick shower comes through though, there are no sunbrella's/enclosures on them...so you're gonna get pretty wet.

If you're using your own cart, you aren't charged less...than the regular greens fee cost.

If I were to guess, I would say about 95%+ of players on the championship courses...use their own carts.

[gcanonge]

Totally agree!

[Love2Swim]

I only will say that we pay a premium price to play the championship courses and the conditions do not match the price in most cases , and we provide our own carts

Good point. The cost of the cart plus maintenance is a huge factor to consider, especially when we are playing on some courses that are not in good shape. There are always a few courses that are decent, but with the large numbers of people playing golf, it is not always possible to get tee times at the good courses, especially in the high season, or if you are playing in a large group. Many of us who moved here for the golf, are either playing outside the Villages, or just not playing, because of the course conditions. If you are thinking of moving here, and golf is your primary reason, I would think twice.

[zoom1]

Been here over 7 years and agree that Championship courses have fallen into a state of total disappointment.
Take note that so far, and 2 years out, there is one Championship course south of 44.
Disappointing for us that bought here, but politics, taxes and greed will take the Villages down a dark road.
Beware, this developer is as greedy as they get!!

[captain1043]

HI, I've lived in the Villages for 11 years. I totally agree that the courses need a lot more maintenance. The management company earns big dollars from the Championship courses and yet they put the care of the courses up for bid to the lowest priced company. What's wrong with giving the maintenance company a list of demands to keep up the quality of the courses or pay a penalty for there poor performance. May times in my lifetime I made the mistake of going with the cheapest price and not paid enough attention to the quality and longevity of the work done. I paid for it later. I think more golfers should let the Country Club Administrators no how unhappy they are about conditions. Speak up every time you play and let them know how you feel. If enough of us complain it will influence there decision making. Remember a lot of new sales are based on the current course conditions. If prospective buyers see that residents are unhappy it will hurt their sales. They won't like that!!!

[preyes]

I've been a Village Resident for 11 years and have only played the Exec. courses. I must agree with those who have expressed the opinion that the condition of many courses has declined. Have you played Silver Lake recently? Don't!

[johnboy]

We play outside every week, with a wide selection of courses with better conditions and less expensive. Even when we pay some of the courses with the same cost of
"The Villages", the conditions don't even come close. It is like playing some of the courses back north, with nice fairways, wonderful holes, great greens and challenging holes. They are always welcoming us with great fees and extra's like range balls, discounts on after golf in their restaurants.

[Snackman67]

Have to agree that the Championship courses are not in good shape. The fairways are like hitting off of rocks on many fairways on both the Championship and Executive courses. If they put the extra money that they are charging now into the courses, hopefully that would help.

[Hole-in-one]

I absolutely agree. Ive played courses outside the Villages and they are not only cheaper but in much better shape so no excuses for our courses, its just neglect. Another complaint I'm hearing a lot and agree with is the amount of traffic coming in from Fenney with no signs of relief just a continuation of homes being built. What happens when the condos are built? The bubble is becoming a big ballon ready to explode. All about money, that's pretty obvious and not what Mr. Moorse intended.

[rayBert25]

I do play the Executive courses and many are in horrible shape. I also live on an Executive course and it is very disheartening to view a golf course that has turned from lush green to bare dirt.

[Nordhagen]

I agree that the championship courses are in pretty poor shape. Very little grass on many tee boxes. Also, they need to enforce golf carts not going past the stakes. Many people almost drive on the greens. This causes undue wear and tear. Repair your ball marks on the greens. If you are good enough to hit the green then fix your mark and one other. Take care of the golf courses. The grounds keepers can’t do it all!!

[jdguscinski]

Couldn't agree with you more!!! Been living here for 6 years now. Moved here to golf. All the championship courses south of 466 have gotten worse, condition-wise, each year I've been here. I don't know who calls the shots on course maintenance, and am sure it is all about money, but they need to realize that people will stop playing those courses if they don't improve. I would be more than willing to pay a higher rate to play a course WITH GRASS! Even the worst public courses in Michigan are in better condition than these courses! And the executive courses are even worse, but that is another subject!

[jdguscinski]

you either: 1) work at one of the courses; 2) don't golf here: or 3) are related to the developer. The courses are in horrific shape!

[jdguscinski]

Played Cane Garden this morning......Great Shape.


Couple greens, with a couple SMALL spots needing and getting attention.


Continuing to love this place.

if there are spots on the greens then they are NOT in "great shape"! how much grass is in the fairways?

[jdguscinski]

And, it's been recently reported that Tiera Del Sol and Hacienda are in very good condition .

even if true, why aren't Palmer, Bonifay, Evans Prairie, Belle Glade, Havana in "very good condition"? it's called water and fertilizer! that is all these places need!

[tophcfa]

I think the fairway grass is cut to often and to short. I can rarely use my wedge around the green. Most of the time I putt from 5 or more yards off the green.

Please give the fairway at least 1 1/2 inches at cut height.

I agree, let the fairways grow a little. I find myself hoping my drives roll into the rough so that there is actually some grass under my ball for the next shot. Golfers are supposed to be rewarded for hitting fairways and penalized for going in the rough. Not vice-versa.

[jdguscinski]

I really don't understand the disappointment at all. Most folks move to golf communities for the golf. I get that. But most golf communities don't have around 40 9-hole courses and over a dozen 18-hole courses. Most golf communities don't even have 5 9-holes and 2 championships. And the other golf communities cost a lot more to live there, more in membership fees, more in HOA fees, have fewer amenities, and you generally can't stop at the supermarket on your way home from the 18th hole to grab a quart of milk, with your golf cart.

This is a golf community and there are DOZENS of courses you can choose from. If several are in bad shape, there are still several in good shape. It's likely you'll get out on one of the better-kept courses at least a few times every week, as long as you don't insist on only going to the ones that are in bad shape. That's how I'm perceiving it, so I'm not really understanding why it's a problem.

Well if you don't golf here you WON'T get it! A lot of us moved here for the golf. And at that time there were less than 85,000 residents. Now there are over 125,000 and no more extra courses. And the courses are in very bad condition, so why wouldn't all of us who moved here for the golf be very bitter!

[jdguscinski]

This response is the shorter version of mine. It speaks exactly to WHY I'm confused.

if you don't golf you won't understand.....the developer has a captured market. And they could make all of the golfing community happier (note, I say happier, as golf is not the only reason people move here). For serious golfers there is nothing worse than playing course on bare dirt, which is what most of the championship courses have turned in to!

[jdguscinski]

That's pretty pathetic. Is it indicative of all the other courses? What do the best of the Exec look like? How many of the execs are in this horrible shape? How many are in *good* shape? How many are in "tolerable" shape?

Of the ones in bad shape, how many are in the process of being repaired?

almost all of the executives look like that! and always have. the worst part of it is that we residents "own" the executives and that is what we get!!!!!???? it's one thing to complain about the championship courses, that we have no say in, but the executives? embarrassing, total waste of amenity fees. I wish they would close 1/3 of all the executive courses and then spend that money on the ones that remain open. maybe they would be playable then? "free golf for life".....yes, if you have a desire to play a goat patch!

[jdguscinski]

I am a golfer and I agree the greens (especially on the executive courses I've played) are in poor condition. I hope that over the summer they will be able to fix the issues. But I still love living here. I love all the golfing options, but it's not the only reason I live here. I've made great friends and I love all the activities. It's a well maintained, beautiful place to live. The "HOA" fee pays for so much more than golf course maintenance. And that fee is unbelievably reasonable.
What frustrates me is that so many people expect "The Developer" to fix things. "Fix the Villages Regional Hospital, fix the golf courses, stop selling homes because it's getting too big/too much traffic and I don't like that."
If there comes a time The Villages doesn't have what I'm looking for... I will move to a community that better fits my needs. But I'm not going to blame The Developer... I believe they are trying to do the right thing for the people that live here. And I certainly don't begrudge them for making a profit on what they are doing.

we aren't talking about the hospital, or any other misc crap. when we are talking about the championship courses, they are OWNED by the developer. so they are fair game for complaints to be registered towards! as far as executive courses, those are paid for by our amenity fees - so our CDD supervisors and PWAC decide how much money they get. this IS all about money, it takes money to water and fertilize. that is all grass needs to grow!

[57ChevyFI]

I played Belle Glade last week. No complaints.

[dewilson58]

Palmer good shape this morning.

[anothersteve]

Palmer good shape this morning.

Yeah.... but just wait till this afternoon! :1rotfl:

Steve

[croughwell]

Try the Executive courses... They are in far worse shape. Many executive courses also have broken, cracked and sliding concrete carts paths and areas that obviously don't even receive water and the grass is hardly ever replaced in the high traffic areas. Fertilizer is generally what keeps grass looking well and it appears to be non-existent on many courses. I've only been here since November of 2018 and the decline in the course conditions over the previous 18 months has been incredible!

[Polar Bear]

...I've only been here since November of 2018 and the decline in the course conditions over the previous 18 months has been incredible!
With all due respect, I think you better redo the math.

jk :D

[Joanne19335]

I have been living in the villages for 7 years now. I moved from Colorado in retirement which was a long distance move. One of the reasons for moving here was that the golf courses were pristine and well maintained. I could have easily found another retirement area in Arizona but with a few less amenities but I chose the villages.

After playing mostly the championship courses over the past several months the golf courses in the villages have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer enjoyable to play...as I call them a "goat ranch." After speaking to one the managers at one of the clubs I asked why the courses no longer "overseed" with rye grass in the winter. After several reasons which I disagreed with, I have come to the conclusion that it is all about the money.

I hear, see and read about the wonderful growth of the villages and what a great thing it is for the quality of life here. After seeing the increase in traffic, lack of retail and commercial areas and the condition of the golf courses, I am getting the sense that the villages is becoming just another large city...yes city (pop. at 130K going to over 200K in the next several years).

Unless more attention is paid to the things I have mentioned earlier, I'm afraid the overbuilding and lack of maintenance will be a detriment to people thinking of moving to the villages.
I could not have said it better. I am also a golfer. As a priority member, I resent paying the additional prices to play courses with greens covered in sand. We are getting too big.

[dewilson58]

Try the Executive courses... They are in far worse shape. Many executive courses also have broken, cracked and sliding concrete carts paths and areas that obviously don't even receive water and the grass is hardly ever replaced in the high traffic areas. Fertilizer is generally what keeps grass looking well and it appears to be non-existent on many courses. I've only been here since November of 2018 and the decline in the course conditions over the previous 18 months has been incredible!




Unfortunately, all the executive courses are not in as good of shape as the country club courses. There are a lot of factors, including the amount of play, the care by the golfers, construction & maint. and of course........money.



18 months is a very short period of time. The courses have had good years and bad years.


:popcorn:

[birdiebill]

I played Havana today and I thought the greens had very nice grass. They putted a little slow, but they were in great shape. Mallory last Friday also had great greens. Belle Glade a week ago the greens were in good shape but also a little slow. I agree with those that would like to see more grass on the fairways; you can not just sweep the ball off like we did on northern courses with bent grass or blue grass fairways. I have played Volusia and Turtle Mound with my wife in the last two weeks and thought the greens were decent. Bermuda grass grows best in the heat of the summer and seems to be coming in much better now.

Aeration is going to make a mess of all the greens this month, but it is necessary for the long term health of the greens.

[Bogie Shooter]

I could not have said it better. I am also a golfer. As a priority member, I resent paying the additional prices to play courses with greens covered in sand. We are getting too big.

Getting big has nothing to do with it.
Been here 17 years and the courses have been aerated and sanded for that period of time.
You can drop your priority membership when ever you like...….

[anothersteve]

Getting big has nothing to do with it.
Been here 17 years and the courses have been aerated and sanded for that period of time.
You can drop your priority membership when ever you like...….

I can't believe some "golfers" do not know what aeration is and why it's necessary, then get annoyed playing on aerated greens.
Also priority memberships are non-refundable, non transferable.
Steve

[arickis]

I have been here 12 years now and have never seen the courses, executive and championship in such bad condition. It mostly revolves around the overseeding that they do not do anymore. Arlington Ridge is in great condition due to their overseeding etc. I mostly play on the outside now, and when our playing partners ask why, I tell them because our courses are in poor shape. Other developements have gone the same route. Marion Oaks is a huge developement with 2 golf courses that were good 8 years ago. If you want to see what the Villages is going to look like unless they start taking care of their golf courses, take a look at Marion Oaks or Huntington. Very sad. I hope someone at the developers night speaks up if they get a chance.

[rustyp]

I was at Pinehurst the last two days. Spring has not been here too long in North Carolina. One of these things is not like the other. Don't blame it on the boogie. I forgot fairways actually have grass.

[eyc234]

Have golfed for a long time in Europe, South America, Asia, Australia, Middle East and all over the US. Father worked for PGA after retiring from the military. He taught 4 boys to be pretty good golfers, 2 high school state champs and 3 college scholarships. Never once were we allowed to complain about the condition of a course. Grass or no grass play the ball as it lays. Maintenance on courses is a fact of life. Also read up in some of the golf magazines about the new thoughts on golf course design, over seeding and maintenance, lots more waste areas, lots of big grasses, less fairway grass and less water. Guarantee you do not hear complaints about fairway or rough conditions at St Andrews or many courses in Arizona. Have to agree that sand and punching are part of spring.

Was at The Masters last month and it was not wet it was a swamp. Guarantee you no one who has a chance walks away from playing that course no matter what shape it is in. Nature changes and it is constant fight to keep ahead for the guys trying to keep up.

As for too much growth, did the city you came from stop all development because the movie, restaurant, park, grocery store, muni or country club got too crowded for you? Did you pack up, quit your job and move, or did you stay and grow with your company and make more money? If you did then you are a person of great principal, if you did not then why do you complain now?

[anothersteve]

Have golfed for a long time in Europe, South America, Asia, Australia, Middle East and all over the US. Father worked for PGA after retiring from the military. He taught 4 boys to be pretty good golfers, 2 high school state champs and 3 college scholarships. Never once were we allowed to complain about the condition of a course. Grass or no grass play the ball as it lays. Maintenance on courses is a fact of life. Also read up in some of the golf magazines about the new thoughts on golf course design, over seeding and maintenance, lots more waste areas, lots of big grasses, less fairway grass and less water. Guarantee you do not hear complaints about fairway or rough conditions at St Andrews or many courses in Arizona. Have to agree that sand and punching are part of spring.

Was at The Masters last month and it was not wet it was a swamp. Guarantee you no one who has a chance walks away from playing that course no matter what shape it is in. Nature changes and it is constant fight to keep ahead for the guys trying to keep up.

As for too much growth, did the city you came from stop all development because the movie, restaurant, park, grocery store, muni or country club got too crowded for you? Did you pack up, quit your job and move, or did you stay and grow with your company and make more money? If you did then you are a person of great principal, if you did not then why do you complain now?

St. Andrews is a great example! That course can be crap! But then....that's golf. Too many golf snobs around in my book.
Great post, thanks.
Steve

[Jayvee]

Played Bonifay today. Greens in great shape but fairways are cut way too short. They should close them for at ,east a week and not cut them. After they grow a little cut them higher. They will never recover if they keep trimming them at 1-2 inch. Just an observation.

[Polar Bear]

...As for too much growth, did the city you came from stop all development because the movie, restaurant, park, grocery store, muni or country club got too crowded for you?...
Yeah. Nobody goes there any more...it’s too crowded. :)

[tophcfa]

Played Bonifay today. Greens in great shape but fairways are cut way too short. They should close them for at ,east a week and not cut them. After they grow a little cut them higher. They will never recover if they keep trimming them at 1-2 inch. Just an observation.

I agree that the fairways are cut way too close, but they are not cutting them at 1 - 2 inches. They are shaving them to about 1/3- 1/2 of an inch. I cut my lawn up north at 1 3/4 inch and that length leaves plenty of grass underneath a golf ball, in fact, it is about the length of the rough in the Villages. I simply can not understand why they cut the fairways so tight in the Villages, it must stress the turf tremendously?

[anothersteve]

Read it and weep.
http://www.usga.org/course-care/2013/08/fairway-and-rough-heights-vary-by-the-season-21474858685.html
Steve

[bilcon]

As far a golf on the decline..... That may be true while the young folks, me included once upon a time, are raising a family, working etc, they are not interested in golf, but when they retire, they are finding the time to play. I would venture to say that 30 to 40 % of those who have moved to the villages never played golf before. (and they still can't play) Now that they are retire, they're willing to try anything, golf included. Only my opinion, not backed by facts.

[sheena0904]

I agree that the fairways are cut way too close, but they are not cutting them at 1 - 2 inches. They are shaving them to about 1/3- 1/2 of an inch. I cut my lawn up north at 1 3/4 inch and that length leaves plenty of grass underneath a golf ball, in fact, it is about the length of the rough in the Villages. I simply can not understand why they cut the fairways so tight in the Villages, it must stress the turf tremendously?

If they fairways were cut at 1 to 1.5/2 inches as some are suggesting you guys would lose your ball. If you could take just one fairway in the entire villages and have ONLY a fairway mower on it for a few weeks, it would be night and day.

[anothersteve]

If they fairways were cut at 1 to 1.5/2 inches as some are suggesting you guys would lose your ball. If you could take just one fairway in the entire villages and have ONLY a fairway mower on it for a few weeks, it would be night and day.
Yes, see my post above with a link
Steve

[sg2909]

Rockymountain….
After living here three years I tend to agree with you, have cancelled my prime membership and now play outside the villages....less money and most are in better shape...
getting tired of the homeless picking thru the garbage....and nothing gets done about it...

[Bay Kid]

As far a golf on the decline..... That may be true while the young folks, me included once upon a time, are raising a family, working etc, they are not interested in golf, but when they retire, they are finding the time to play. I would venture to say that 30 to 40 % of those who have moved to the villages never played golf before. (and they still can't play) Now that they are retire, they're willing to try anything, golf included. Only my opinion, not backed by facts.

So true. When I worked and raised my family there was hardly time to play tennis once a week. Now I am helping my grandchildren enjoy the game of golf.

[dodouglas]

Right on!! My thoughts exactly!!

[dewilson58]

Played Palmer this morning (& Monday morning).


I noticed six (6) blades of grass out of place.


I was so upset I almost walked off..............Actually I did, 18 times........off the green that is.




:icon_wink:

[59again]

I had guest coming in from out of town wanting to play golf here I was too embarrassed to have them play here too expensive for pasture golf shame on the villages for gouging us and yes we all drink the kool aid so we went outside the villages and played a couple of real nice courses Shame on the villages as long as we pay they will continue to have the conditions

[Polar Bear]

as long as we pay they will continue to have the conditions
That's because the conditions...of course less than perfect...are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be on all courses.

...and yes we all drink the kool aid...
Speak for yourself.

[Barefoot]

:agree: with PB.

[dewilson58]

We are seasonal residents and have been gone for a month.
I thought the golf courses were tolerable because they get beat up by a zillion golfers a day.
I'm curious, now the snowbirds are gone, have the golf courses improved? (Perhaps they need longer to recover.)




Just my Opin............and the seven other guys I golf with...........the have improved and are very playable and enjoyable. The cour6ses I've played in the last three weeks: Evans, Belle, Palmer, Havana, Cane..........and they are all in good shape.


I just had visitors here and we played 36 holes back to back. They enjoyed the courses and conditions. We were all members of a CC up North, so we like good conditions.



I assume more will chime in.

[rustyp]

Again I was in Pinehurst NC this week, The 9 courses in Pinehurst get as much play as the Championship courses do in TV - at this time of year. Tee times are booked solid sunrise to sunset. The fairways are like a carpet. On the best of times I have never experienced the same type conditions in TV. Stop the BS about the amount of play. Now on the other hand different types of grass may explain the difference.

[Barefoot]

Just my Opin............and the seven other guys I golf with...........the have improved and are very playable and enjoyable. The courses I've played in the last three weeks: Evans, Belle, Palmer, Havana, Cane..........and they are all in good shape.
I just had visitors here and we played 36 holes back to back. They enjoyed the courses and conditions. We were all members of a CC up North, so we like good conditions.
Good to hear, thanks for the opinion.

[sheena0904]

Again I was in Pinehurst NC this week, The 9 courses in Pinehurst get as much play as the Championship courses do in TV - at this time of year. Tee times are booked solid sunrise to sunset. The fairways are like a carpet. On the best of times I have never experienced the same type conditions in TV. Stop the BS about the amount of play. Now on the other hand different types of grass may explain the difference.

Are you seriously comparing a course that provides caddies instead of carts, has absolutely no budget to follow, and hosts the US Open to courses in The Villages?

[rustyp]

Are you seriously comparing a course that provides caddies instead of carts, has absolutely no budget to follow, and hosts the US Open to courses in The Villages?

1. Course number two requires caddies - carts allowed on all courses.
2. Given the price of golf and amount of play on the championship courses here in TV the budget is hardly that of a pasture.
3.TV not hosting the US Open - that part is probably correct.

I have yet to here a reasonable explanation for having to shoot off essentially dirt on the fairways. Another poster had it right - move the ball to the rough to simulate fairway grass.

[TimeForChange]

Tiera Del Sol was changed over to the new grass for the greens and it has been in great shape. The worst I have played recently in Havana. (Terrible) Numerous bare spots in the fairways and very little if any turf. The courses are recovering from the pounding of thousands upon thousands of golf carts this winter. They will get better (if we actually get our rainy season). If I were in charge I would have the ambassadors fully implementing and enforcing the 90 degree rule. Then you still have all the carts with RA's driving right up to and sometimes on the greens when they are suppose to stay back 15 ft.

[drcar]

Again I was in Pinehurst NC this week, The 9 courses in Pinehurst get as much play as the Championship courses do in TV - at this time of year. Tee times are booked solid sunrise to sunset. The fairways are like a carpet. On the best of times I have never experienced the same type conditions in TV. Stop the BS about the amount of play. Now on the other hand different types of grass may explain the difference.

Hmmmm, and what was the cost of playing Pinehurst? And right now the courses in TV are doing over 300 rounds a day! On May 1st Havana did over 500 rounds! are you saying that Pinehurst is doing 2700 rounds a day at the prices they charge, WOW I am impressed?

[sheena0904]

Hmmmm, and what was the cost of playing Pinehurst? And right now the courses in TV are doing over 300 rounds a day! On May 1st Havana did over 500 rounds! are you saying that Pinehurst is doing 2700 rounds a day at the prices they charge, WOW I am impressed?
Exactly, it’s like comparing apples and oranges. Pinehurst and The Villages?!? Come on lol. I would bet money the courses that are allowed carts at Pinehurst, probably 10% or less drive on the fairway. I also bet if the carts drove where they weren’t supposed at PINEHURST they would be thrown off the course immediately!!

[rustyp]

Exactly, it’s like comparing apples and oranges. Pinehurst and The Villages?!? Come on lol. I would bet money the courses that are allowed carts at Pinehurst, probably 10% or less drive on the fairway. I also bet if the carts drove where they weren’t supposed at PINEHURST they would be thrown off the course immediately!!

What a revelation - TV needs to have a no cart policy and we can have better than PINEHURST conditions for a fraction of the price of a world class course ( I often wonder why TV calls them Championship Courses). Who can argue with this logic! Problem solved LOL!

[stan the man]

I used to obey all the rules of golf never drove up close to the Greene raked the traps I fixed divots etc. Now I do as the rest of the people When in Rome do as the Romans do. The Villages has changed tremendously so I am with the changes. The king and his court doesn't seem to care about the condition of the courses so neither do I I play what's there and enjoy it. Much easier not having to rake the sand, fix my divots. When The Villages decided not to design any decent courses like the old ones which had trees Lakes sand traps etc. When they decided to take a cow pasture dig a few holes put in some sand plant some fountain grass and put 18 sticks in the ground and call it a golf course that's when I stop caring. I got so tired of hearing all the excuses like too much rain not enough for me too much traffic on the courses too hot to cold Just poor maintenance . Money money money

[Marathon Man]

I used to obey all the rules of golf never drove up close to the Greene raked the traps I fixed divots etc. Now I do as the rest of the people When in Rome do as the Romans do. The Villages has changed tremendously so I am with the changes. The king and his court doesn't seem to care about the condition of the courses so neither do I I play what's there and enjoy it. Much easier not having to rake the sand, fix my divots. When The Villages decided not to design any decent courses like the old ones which had trees Lakes sand traps etc. When they decided to take a cow pasture dig a few holes put in some sand plant some fountain grass and put 18 sticks in the ground and call it a golf course that's when I stop caring. I got so tired of hearing all the excuses like too much rain not enough for me too much traffic on the courses too hot to cold Just poor maintenance . Money money money

I am hoping that this is a bit of sarcasm. All golfers know that raking sand, filling divots, etc is for the benefit of the other players who follow. Not to help the owner of the course.

[anothersteve]

I am hoping that this is a bit of sarcasm. All golfers know that raking sand, filling divots, etc is for the benefit of the other players who follow. Not to help the owner of the course.

If it's not sarcasm, what the heck is he doing here....that is if he really is "here"
Steve

[fswain]

I'm not a golfer (so I'm not thrilled about paying fees to support golf) but I have read from the PWAC that the first reason for the golf courses is for water runoff management. The 2nd reason for the golf courses is as a resident amenity. Obviously, #1 is a higher priority for The Villages system, but, probably most folks view the amenity function as being #1. Obviously, those folks would be wrong.

[Bogie Shooter]

I'm not a golfer (so I'm not thrilled about paying fees to support golf) but I have read from the PWAC that the first reason for the golf courses is for water runoff management. The 2nd reason for the golf courses is as a resident amenity. Obviously, #1 is a higher priority for The Villages system, but, probably most folks view the amenity function as being #1. Obviously, those folks would be wrong.

By fees, I assume you mean amenity fee. How much of your fee actually goes to support golf?

[Shbullet]

By fees, I assume you mean amenity fee. How much of your fee actually goes to support golf?

I bet u know the answer so can U please enlighten us with it?

[drcar]

I'm not a golfer (so I'm not thrilled about paying fees to support golf) but I have read from the PWAC that the first reason for the golf courses is for water runoff management. The 2nd reason for the golf courses is as a resident amenity. Obviously, #1 is a higher priority for The Villages system, but, probably most folks view the amenity function as being #1. Obviously, those folks would be wrong.

I guest you are talking about the amenity fees. Well number one, none of it goes to the championship courses. Since the executive course are controlled and run by the districts they could tell you. But it is just not golf, all of the recreation activities are supported by the amenity fees. This is not new, I play golf, but I do not complain about the cost of the pools, the tennis courts, pickle ball, etc. It is ALL part of the life style!

[mrf6969]

14 years here now. I do agree to some extent. I sure missed not having the Rye over seed this past winter. That really makes a difference in the fairways and tee boxes. I don't think they wanted to make the investment. Most of the courses outside TV always over seed. Mallory 3-4 weeks ago was terrible but Lopez and Cain recently are quite good with the Bermuda finally filling in.
I understand as I am from Colorado too and it is very hard to beat those lush fairways April-October. But I do recall I did not care much for those Colorado higher "green fees". Life is full of give-and-take......

[Love2Swim]

I think part of it too is expectations. We played in Northern NY at a semi-private country club that had a fabulous greenskeeper, and the course was pristine, as were many of the courses in the area, and much cheaper to play. Here, the courses remind me of the crummier muni courses we had up north. You have a lot of people here that never played much golf and they take it up in retirement, so they don't have a lot to compare it to as far as conditions. Some of them tend to be satisfied with much less. And some of the more discriminating golfers, however, keep track of the course conditions, and only put in for the good courses when they play in The Villages, or else they play outside The Villages. There are a number of traveling groups, both men's and women's. Like mrf6969 said, there is give and take.

[Polar Bear]

...There are a number of traveling groups, both men's and women's...
Would you be willing to list some of these groups? :)

[dewilson58]

Played Lopez this week. Really good shape. Some of the best greens in TV.


Played Southern Star this morning. They are working on the greens so two of them had big patches of new sod. Tough putting, but they are fixing issues.

[anothersteve]

TDS today was in almost perfect condition. Greens are some of the best I have played on yet.
Steve

[Barefoot]

But it is just not golf, all of the recreation activities are supported by the amenity fees. This is not new, I play golf, but I do not complain about the cost of the pools, the tennis courts, pickle ball, etc. It is ALL part of the life style!
Ditto the softball fields. As you said, it's all part of the life style in The Villages.

[collie1228]

Tierra is in great condition - I play all the championship courses and Tierra is the best right now. Played Glenview on Tuesday and it was in great shape too. Greens are lush, well cut, and medium fast. Fairways just now greening up and look good. I haven't seen a championship course in bad shape this year.