Amenity fees

[Bowtorc]

The raising of fees brings to mind a few questions:

There was no mention of such a need two years ago when we purchased. Now they can see 10 years ahead?
What are the monies used for by item?
With a 70 million dollar budget I was expected to have a cost reduction program. What has been done in the villages?
Will we all be paying for new facilities south of 44?
The contract we signed when purchasing was no good? So I can decide also what I want to change, like bond?
The presentation for raising rates stated that failure to raise would result in a loss of 50 million. It could very easily be taken to mean we would be 50 in the hole. This should be a prediction of our current status in 10 years.
I seriously doubt that anyone can predict ten years ahead!
Are we allowed to see a line item of past and future budget and actual?
Are we being asked for such a large raise in anticipation of all settling for something less?
I understand that 40 50 dollars per month would be no problem for some but a significant problem for others A 25 % increase for such a short term seems a little much.
I also understand that some will take issue with my concerns but I think several others would also agree.
Just my opinion.

A

[collie1228]

Your questions are mostly valid and I share some of your concerns, but I'm curious as to where the "25% increase" comes from. I'm no expert, but it is my understanding that the overall cap on amenity fees was being considered for elimination. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the amenity fee cannot be increased in any year by more than the Consumer Price Index (CPI), which at current CPI rates, would take over ten years to increase by the 25% you mention.

[rjm1cc]

I think when you move into a community you have to understand how it works and I would expect costs to increase over time. Both due to inflation and increased wants by the residents. Look at the fees as real estate taxes helping to support just your community (Villages) and not the whole county.

[Bowtorc]

I was intending to compare the increase for ten years for the increase over the last ten years . A poor choice of words on my part

[Bowtorc]

I don't disagree about cost going up just the amount that could possibly come to be.

[graciegirl]

It is my understanding that this is being considered only in the area that sued the developer and won control of running that area.

Not in any area south of 466. Champion, Bogie Shooter, CWGuy? Am I wrong or right?

[tophcfa]

I have no problem with the cap being removed as long as annual increases are limited to the CPI. Expenses go up, it's life. I just wish that other costs like health care, food, gas, data plans, greens fees, insurance, etc... could also never go up more than the CPI.

[dewilson58]

Simple, if you cap the fees and costs continue to grow..........the assets are going to go down in quality.


I guess some want this.


:ohdear:

[Clubberjones]

If the executive golf courses are an amenity and I believe they are. The quality has already diminished.

[Mikeod]

It is my understanding that this is being considered only in the area that sued the developer and won control of running that area.

Not in any area south of 466. Champion, Bogie Shooter, CWGuy? Am I wrong or right?

Nope. It is being considered by both areas.

[Madelaine Amee]

It is my understanding that this is being considered only in the area that sued the developer and won control of running that area.

Not in any area south of 466. Champion, Bogie Shooter, CWGuy? Am I wrong or right?

https://www.**************.com/2019/04/08/pwac-members-come-to-consensus-on-future-of-amenity-deferral-rate/

Increase is for SOUTH of 466. There is a meeting this week to discuss the need to increase fees north of 466.

[anothersteve]

If the executive golf courses are an amenity and I believe they are. The quality has already diminished.

And here we go again...................
Maybe that's one of the reasons why?
Steve

[Mikeod]

Please remember that without the current cap, many households would already be paying more than currently. The cap was originally established to address a large disparity in amenity fees between residents and because revenue was adequate to cover expenses.

Why the change? The disparity has diminished as those below the cap have seen their fee rise toward that amount while those already there have enjoyed stable fees. The district has now adjusted projected expenses to include necessary refurbishment and/or replacement of amenities. (The original lawsuit that resulted in the AAC north of 466 was filed because there was insufficient funds allocated to adequately maintain amenities.)

Removing or increasing the cap does not remove the limit to how much your amenity fee can rise each year. You are not facing a 25% rise in one or two years.

[l2ridehd]

I would need to better understand what the funds are spent for currently. What cost savings efforts have been put in place? Places that get their funds from the public coffers have a history of never trying to save money, but to make sure they spend 100% of their budget. 100% of all Federal agencies speed 100% of the budget every year. Never once have they spent less. Now I am sure there is probably one exception to that.

Business on the other hand get budget challenges every year. When I managed a business I had an 8% budget challenge on existing business every year. How to automate, standardize, and consolidate all aspects every year.

Does our amenities control folks do anything to cut their costs? Have they done bulk purchases, reduced staff per unit if work? Bid each job they sub out? The money available grows as the Villages grows. But what are they doing to contain and lower cost.

Before I would ever support an increase they would need to prove they have done everything possible to reduce cost.

[JoMar]

I would need to better understand what the funds are spent for currently. What cost savings efforts have been put in place? Places that get their funds from the public coffers have a history of never trying to save money, but to make sure they spend 100% of their budget. 100% of all Federal agencies speed 100% of the budget every year. Never once have they spent less. Now I am sure there is probably one exception to that.

Business on the other hand get budget challenges every year. When I managed a business I had an 8% budget challenge on existing business every year. How to automate, standardize, and consolidate all aspects every year.

Does our amenities control folks do anything to cut their costs? Have they done bulk purchases, reduced staff per unit if work? Bid each job they sub out? The money available grows as the Villages grows. But what are they doing to contain and lower cost.

Before I would ever support an increase they would need to prove they have done everything possible to reduce cost.

It would be great if this was run as a business and they could cut costs as required however, in a business when you cut costs you are concerned with other impact factors....where will your customers go to when they find your quality decreases, where will your employees go when you can't maintain wages etc. Here, a bit different, people came here for a lifestyle expectation. Do you really believe those of us that live here will pack up and leave when the amenities we expect are reduced? Do you really think the labor market will be here when wages are locked or decrease? Do you believe that the suppliers give a darn about a CPI? Have you looked at Home Owners Associations rates in other communities? Have you attended The Villages Academy? Have you contacted the financial folks? Do you attend the PWAC or your CDD meetings? The answers to all your questions are available....go find them. But you know that.

[Velvet]

The web site mentioned above is blocked out. I’m in district 6, does anyone know how much the fees are going to be?

[graciegirl]

Please remember that without the current cap, many households would already be paying more than currently. The cap was originally established to address a large disparity in amenity fees between residents and because revenue was adequate to cover expenses.

Why the change? The disparity has diminished as those below the cap have seen their fee rise toward that amount while those already there have enjoyed stable fees. The district has now adjusted projected expenses to include necessary refurbishment and/or replacement of amenities. (The original lawsuit that resulted in the AAC north of 466 was filed because there was insufficient funds allocated to adequately maintain amenities.)

Removing or increasing the cap does not remove the limit to how much your amenity fee can rise each year. You are not facing a 25% rise in one or two years.

I have read your posts for the last dozen year and know that you are very aware of what is going on and have reasonable expectations and no axe to grind.

Thank you for this explanation.

[Madelaine Amee]

The web site mentioned above is blocked out. I’m in district 6, does anyone know how much the fees are going to be?

I'm sorry, for some reason TOTV does not always let us copy items from the online newspaper. I will send you the link in a PM and see i that works for you.

[Bogie Shooter]

The web site mentioned above is blocked out. I’m in district 6, does anyone know how much the fees are going to be?

None of that has been decided...…………..

[Bogie Shooter]

The raising of fees brings to mind a few questions:

There was no mention of such a need two years ago when we purchased. Now they can see 10 years ahead?
What are the monies used for by item?
With a 70 million dollar budget I was expected to have a cost reduction program. What has been done in the villages?
Will we all be paying for new facilities south of 44?
The contract we signed when purchasing was no good? So I can decide also what I want to change, like bond?
The presentation for raising rates stated that failure to raise would result in a loss of 50 million. It could very easily be taken to mean we would be 50 in the hole. This should be a prediction of our current status in 10 years.
I seriously doubt that anyone can predict ten years ahead!
Are we allowed to see a line item of past and future budget and actual?
Are we being asked for such a large raise in anticipation of all settling for something less?
I understand that 40 50 dollars per month would be no problem for some but a significant problem for others A 25 % increase for such a short term seems a little much.
I also understand that some will take issue with my concerns but I think several others would also agree.
Just my opinion.

A

By your join date you have been here 3 years, surely by now you know all those budget meetings are open to the public. Better to get your answers there then on here... which most of the time is speculation.

[Bogie Shooter]

It is my understanding that this is being considered only in the area that sued the developer and won control of running that area.

Not in any area south of 466. Champion, Bogie Shooter, CWGuy? Am I wrong or right?

Yep, wrong.

[justjim]

The current set-up only gives a “break” to those who stay put and don’t purchase another house. Even though I have lived in The Villages for 13 years and paid my amenity fees, If I move (new or resale) I will pay more. Go figure. Somehow that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The current set-up only gives a “break” to those who stay put and don’t purchase another house. Even though I have lived in The Villages for 13 years and paid my amenity fees, If I move (new or resale) I will pay more. Go figure. Somehow that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Well, you -could- just pay more now instead. Have everyone pay the same. It'd a be a lot easier, cost-effective, and less expensive to do the accounting for, if every property was assessed the same amenity fee every month. They each have access to the same amenities, so I don't see a problem with that.

[anothersteve]

Well, you -could- just pay more now instead. Have everyone pay the same.

Or not.
Steve

[LuvtheVillages]

The web site mentioned above is blocked out. I’m in district 6, does anyone know how much the fees are going to be?

Your amenity fee was established in the contract you signed when you purchased your house. It increases every year by the Consumer Price Index, on the anniversary of your house purchase.

If you purchased a few years ago, you are probably paying about $150 - 155 per month. Its on your water/garbage bill.

It will continue to go up by the CPI every year. The only thing new is that now, there will not be a ceiling that stops the increases. It will increase every year. The CPI has been in the 1.5 - 2 - 3% range. So the annual increase is about $3 or so each month.

This fee pays for the operation of the recreation facilities, not the general maintenance of the roads, gates, flower beds, etc. That maintenance is paid by you annually with your property tax bill.

[Velvet]

Thank you for explaining how these fees work.

[Bogie Shooter]

Thank you for explaining how these fees work.

Village Community Development Districts (http://Www.districtgov.org)

[Mikeod]

Well, you -could- just pay more now instead. Have everyone pay the same. It'd a be a lot easier, cost-effective, and less expensive to do the accounting for, if every property was assessed the same amenity fee every month. They each have access to the same amenities, so I don't see a problem with that.

Can’t do that. The contract everyone agreed to when you purchased your house spells out exactly how the amenity fee can change. To unilaterally move every home to the same fee violates that agreement. In fact, the capping of the fee is one way to accomplish that without violating the agreement. A secondary effect of the cap is to keep the disparity in fees between homes from widening.

[tophcfa]

Just a quick question, can anyone find a place anywhere on earth were they can get more amenities for about $155 per month? I know I can't. So if my fees go up by the CPI each year I am good with that.

[Goldwingnut]

The raising of fees brings to mind a few questions:

There was no mention of such a need two years ago when we purchased. Now they can see 10 years ahead?
What are the monies used for by item?
With a 70 million dollar budget I was expected to have a cost reduction program. What has been done in the villages?
Will we all be paying for new facilities south of 44?
The contract we signed when purchasing was no good? So I can decide also what I want to change, like bond?
The presentation for raising rates stated that failure to raise would result in a loss of 50 million. It could very easily be taken to mean we would be 50 in the hole. This should be a prediction of our current status in 10 years.
I seriously doubt that anyone can predict ten years ahead!
Are we allowed to see a line item of past and future budget and actual?
Are we being asked for such a large raise in anticipation of all settling for something less?
I understand that 40 50 dollars per month would be no problem for some but a significant problem for others A 25 % increase for such a short term seems a little much.
I also understand that some will take issue with my concerns but I think several others would also agree.
Just my opinion.

A

I'll try to answer your questions, I am a CDD-10 Supervisor and a member of the PWAC and have been involved with the budgeting for the last 5 years that I've lived here in The Villages.

There was no mention of such a need two years ago when we purchased. Now they can see 10 years ahead?
The projected shortfalls have been known for at least the last 5 years. A rolling 10 year forecast is a part of every budget cycle for every budget in The Villages. The need to address the Deferral Rate has be discussed at the PWAC budget meetings since the Developer sold the amenities between 466 & 44 to SLCDD over 2 years ago and PWAC accepted an advisory role in the operations of the Amenities.

What are the monies used for by item?
The amenities budget (SLAD fund) has hundreds of line items on it, all the information is public records, most of these are discussed at the budget workshops and CCD/PWAC/AAC meetings. These meetings are happening over the next few months.

With a 70 million dollar budget I was expected to have a cost reduction program. What has been done in the villages?
There are many initiatives going on by the District Staff to reduce cost - consolidation of fleet vehicle leasing with Sumter County, shared fleet vehicle maintenance with Sumter County to utilize there excess capacity and reduce our costs by $500K a year, staff reorganization to eliminate redundancies and increase efficiency, contract consolidations to achieve economies of scale, entering into multi year contracts to lock in lower prices for services. There are a lot more going on in every department, but at midnight writing this additional items are escaping me.
Since Richard Baier has taken over as District Manager, these efforts to achieve cost reductions have increased dramatically.

Will we all be paying for new facilities south of 44?
No, the Developer builds and pays for all the amenities south of SR44. The Recreation and other departments staff, operate, and maintain the new facilities and the Developer is billed for these services, and the SLAD is reimbursed by the Developer. Funds used to pay for the operations of the amenities south of 44 come for the resident amenities fees south of SR44. The Developer owns these amenities contracts and when the monthly bill is paid by the residents it goes to the developer. This was the case also before the amenities (and amenities contracts) were purchased by SLCDD 2 years ago for the residents between 466 and 44, post-sale these fees are now collected by SLCDD and go directly into the SLAD fund. Bottom line is that the Developer builds and owns the new amenities south of 44 and pays the District to operate them.

The contract we signed when purchasing was no good? So I can decide also what I want to change, like bond?
I have no idea where you came up with this one. The contract (your deed restrictions) is valid and enforceable. The amenities and the bond are two completely different items and not related to each other.

The presentation for raising rates stated that failure to raise would result in a loss of 50 million. It could very easily be taken to mean we would be 50 in the hole. This should be a prediction of our current status in 10 years.
The projection is that in 2022-2023 revenues collected from the amenities fees will start to fall short of the cost of running the amenities. At that point we start to utilize capital reserves to cover these revenue/operating cost short falls. Over the 7 years that follow this will result in nearly $50M being depleted from the reserves. We'll be living on our savings account instead of our pay check, not a good plan. These capital reserves have been,and still are being, accumulated to cover long term repair and replacement of the amenities facilities, $300,000 is being spent this year to replace the roofs on 2 of the larger rec centers.

I seriously doubt that anyone can predict ten years ahead!
No, they can't get it down to the exact nickel that everything will costs. The staff has 30+ years of empirical data and trends that allow them to make fairly accurate projections and estimations. The can't predict the unknowns, for these we establish capital reserves to cover the unexpected.

Are we allowed to see a line item of past and future budget and actual?
Absolutely, it is all considered public records and you are entitled to see them. The current budgets and ongoing expenditures are also discussed at every CDD and other board meetings.

Are we being asked for such a large raise in anticipation of all settling for something less?
No increase is being requested beyond what is allowed for in the contract you agreed to when you purchased your home, annual CPI adjustments to the fee. For the last five years the CPI adjustment has been about 1.5%/year. What you won't find in your deed restrictions/contract is any mention of a deferral rate.
Nobody is bargaining for a pay raise or the cost of car and high balling or low balling the numbers to gain a better positions.

I understand that 40 50 dollars per month would be no problem for some but a significant problem for others A 25 % increase for such a short term seems a little much.
A 1.5% CPI adjustment on an amenity fee at the current deferral rate of $155 is a $2.33/month increase or $28/year. Don't know were you came up with $40 or $50 or 25%. It doesn't seem like a lot of money on an individual basis but when taken over the approximate 35,000 homes currently sitting a the deferral rate it equates to nearly a million dollars, this year that can't be collected to operate the amenities. Each year the number gets larger as more homes reach the deferral rate, by 2022 nearly 100% of the homes between 466 and 44 will be at the deferral rate.

You sound very concerned about this issue, you should be, it's important as it will directly affect the quality of life for everyone here in The Villages. Please come to the joint meeting Monday at 9:00 AM at the Laurel Manor Rec Center were this will be addressed. Feel free to express your concerns and ask your questions.

If you have questions and you want them answered directly please call me or send me an email. My contact information is listed on the districtgov.org website.

Don Wiley
CDD-10 Supervisor and PWAC member

[NatureBoy]

There was a story in TVN that the board voted to eliminate the amenity fee cap - which seems like a smart move to me.

[valuemkt]

Just a quick question, can anyone find a place anywhere on earth were they can get more amenities for about $155 per month? I know I can't. So if my fees go up by the CPI each year I am good with that.

AMEN !!!

:bigbow:

[JoMar]

Let's hope Bowtoc gives you a thank you and doesn't just fade away. I for one appreciate what you do and the information your provide....having someone plow through the misinformation and speculation is needed here and your inputs more than fill that need.

[Back9]

The current set-up only gives a “break” to those who stay put and don’t purchase another house. Even though I have lived in The Villages for 13 years and paid my amenity fees, If I move (new or resale) I will pay more. Go figure. Somehow that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

It sounds like rent control ("rent stabilization") in NYC: Rent stays the same until you move. I'm sure all fixed-income Villagers are "for" that.

[Bowtorc]

You are right A BIG thank you is in order

[Shetzy]

How about charging fees based on how many people live in each home? It's not fair that a single person pays the same fees as a household of 2 or 3 or more.
We moved here expecting the amenities fees to remain fairly stable. Now there's talk of deleting the cap. Many folks are on a fixed income or no income at all and living on their savings.
Some don't use the golf courses, etc but are paying. When more people are in a home, chances are they are using the amenities much more than a single person. Wouldn't it make sense for them to pay more?

[HimandMe]

2.33 a month? Less than a good coffee. Imagine if all the rec centers and grounds went to pot.

You live in a development like no other for a mere pittance. Go visit places outside the bubble, really. Check the prices of run down trailer parks per month....then head home and celebrate having made the decision to live in The Villages.

[Rgarel]

The raising of fees brings to mind a few questions:

There was no mention of such a need two years ago when we purchased. Now they can see 10 years ahead?
What are the monies used for by item?
With a 70 million dollar budget I was expected to have a cost reduction program. What has been done in the villages?
Will we all be paying for new facilities south of 44?
The contract we signed when purchasing was no good? So I can decide also what I want to change, like bond?
The presentation for raising rates stated that failure to raise would result in a loss of 50 million. It could very easily be taken to mean we would be 50 in the hole. This should be a prediction of our current status in 10 years.
I seriously doubt that anyone can predict ten years ahead!
Are we allowed to see a line item of past and future budget and actual?
Are we being asked for such a large raise in anticipation of all settling for something less?
I understand that 40 50 dollars per month would be no problem for some but a significant problem for others A 25 % increase for such a short term seems a little much.
I also understand that some will take issue with my concerns but I think several others would also agree.
Just my opinion.

A
This post reminds me of recent complaints after table tennis club members were advised that Laurel Manor Recreation Center will be closed for the month of July, ostensibly to replace rugs that appear to be in excellent condition. In this regard, periodic refurbishing on a rotational basis of all Villages Recreation Centers occurs, apparently regardless of necessity or cost. During maintenance, all scheduled activities are cancelled. At Laurel Manor, there are 8 table tennis tables usually occupied four times each week by more than 40 players. Recreation Center rooms used for table tennis (and numerous other activities) have wooden floors and separate exits outdoors. Do others share concerns about questionable amenity fee expenditures and curtailment of scheduled activities?

[diva1]

They are dropping the deferral rate....which means cap. There will be no cap as there is now, and that would be for all Villagers. The north of 466 thing refers to the fact that there are more people there paying lesser fees as they have lived there longer & started at a lower fee, and the rate can only go up yearly by the CPI increase. Before the proposed change they would top out at the deferral rate just like everyone else, but would just take longer to get there. Now there will be no deferral rate, or cap, to top out at...for anyone.

[Slmtraveler]

Well, you -could- just pay more now instead. Have everyone pay the same. It'd a be a lot easier, cost-effective, and less expensive to do the accounting for, if every property was assessed the same amenity fee every month. They each have access to the same amenities, so I don't see a problem with that.

:bigbow: I agree completely! They must pay a fortune just to keep all of the information straight. Everyone should pay the same amount.

[CWGUY]

:bigbow: I agree completely! They must pay a fortune just to keep all of the information straight. Everyone should pay the same amount.

:shrug: Maybe part of their $2,000,000,000 in assets is a computer that does that for them. :rolleyes:

[Buckeyes76]

The POA just put information about this same issue. Join the POA and attend their meetings will get you more informed.

[realmoxies]

There was a story in TVN that the board voted to eliminate the amenity fee cap - which seems like a smart move to me.

So the contract I signed that placed the cap is going to go away?

Doesn't seem right.

[transplanted]

Please keep in mind people may join TOTV before they purchase or move to The Villages, like me, to get a sense of what’s going on and see if they want to live there, or join many years after arriving, so we can’t truly base anything on a join date. But your point is well taken about getting the info from ‘official’ sources. I will be moving there next month and appreciate your knowledge of the goings on.

[patbbb]

Just a quick question, can anyone find a place anywhere on earth were they can get more amenities for about $155 per month? I know I can't. So if my fees go up by the CPI each year I am good with that.

Definitely YES! While TV is a wonderful place to retire, many similar communities include lawn maintenance, gym membership, woodworking facilities, etc., etc. in their monthly fees. Also most don't have the bonds and annual fees we have to pay to each CDD district. Many residents live on fixed incomes and were misled re the fees they're obligated to pay.

IMO TV has grown too big, mainly for the benefit of the developer, not the residents. The CDDs, ACC & PWAC spend excessively just like big government and do not listen to the will of the people. Instead of concentrating on reducing spending they just raise income, i.e, fees (read taxes). When a committee refuses to allow residents to speak at a meeting or make them sit for hours before being heard is a travesty and says much.

For those who say if you're unhappy move, I say you miss the point by a long shot.

[Goldwingnut]

So the contract I signed that placed the cap is going to go away?

Doesn't seem right.

If you have read your deed restrictions you will see that there is no "cap" given. What is given is that the fee you pay will be the prevailing rate at the time of purchase and that this rate is subject to a CPI increase annually.

In 2010 the AAC and in 2012 the SLCDD agreed to limit increases to $155 in an effort to get the varied rates being paid to be as close to equal as possible. This agreement was for 1 year and was to be reviewed annually to determine if it should remain in place or be discontinued based on financial conditions. These agreements are what is known as the "Deferral Rate". They are not a contract requirement of any amenity agreement with any resident.

As of today's joint meeting of the AAC and PWAC approximately 65% of the homes between 466 and 44 are at the $155 rate with the remainder projected to be at this rate in the next 2 years. North of 466 all but approximately 120 homes are now at a monthly rate between $140 and $155, the remaining 120 homes are less than $140. The "deferral rate" has accomplished it goal and we are now at the point of the unintended consequences of this limitation is impacting the budgets.

Assuming that SLCDD will follow the recommendations of the PWAC, and there is no reason to consider they won't, then starting on 1 October 2019 all amenities contracts will be subject to annual CPI increases, exactly as stated in your contract/deed restrictions and that you agreed to when you purchased your home..

Regardless of what the real estate person told you when you purchased your home, there is no guarantee or contract limitation on what the amenity fee is. If it's not written on a signed document during closing, it has no standing. The limits imposed on increases are the CPI annual adjustment (up or down).

[Bogie Shooter]

The POA just put information about this same issue. Join the POA and attend their meetings will get you more informed.

Can read it all on their web site.

[patbbb]

Can read it all on their web site.

:bigbow:Agree 100%- the POA has always looked out for the residents- unlike the HOA which cow tows to the developer. From the lawsuit settlement of some $40 mil by mostly POA organizers, to most issues affecting us, the POA has spoken out loudly and spent much on needed professionals to support their opinions.
I personally have been a member since moving to TV 16 years ago and have always supported them. Hopefully, all new Villagers will join that outstanding organization before the sales dept hoodwinks them into only joining the HOA.

[VApeople]

For those who say if you're unhappy move, I say you miss the point by a long shot.

What is "the point" that I am missing?

As far as we are concerned, "the point" is for my wife and I to enjoy every day of our lives as best we can. The Villages is a great place for us to do that.

[eyc234]

Anyone who says you can go to other retirement communities and get what we have for $155 a month is living in a dream world. As someone that went from Arizona to Florida & everywhere in between, looking at trailer parks to timeshare condominiums, there is not anywhere close to The Villages. It is not perfect but a better job is done by the people here than 90% of the towns, cities and municipalities in this country. As far as too big, too crowed, etc, that is called progress and growth. If every company or entrepreneur stopped their company when they had enough money, I dare say half the people in the world would be in a whole lot of trouble!!! Truly if you are not happy with your situation, CHANGE IT! You are free in this country to make your way in any means or place you would like. The reality is prices go up and if you want something in the future it will more than likely cost more.

[patbbb]

What is "the point" that I am missing?

As far as we are concerned, "the point" is for my wife and I to enjoy every day of our lives as best we can. The Villages is a great place for us to do that.

Strongly suggest you read the entire post, especially the 2nd paragraph, not just the last line. While most of us Villagers enjoy our lives here and don't deny its wonders, it has grown exponentially- mostly for the developer's benefit, not the residents. Under the original developer, Harold Schwarz, the residents were no. 1 and that's why we brought our old neighbors and friends here. Sadly, money comes 1st for the developer who refuses to step in and rectify problems he created (roofs, siding, bridge abutments. inadequate multimodal trails, etc. The growth and excess spending by the CDDs is almost unbelievable, often due to poor planning or inadequate building construction. Like most governments, they know how to spend and don't pay enough attention to reducing expenditures which we get stuck paying for.

Other than the POA, no one is looking out for the residents.

[Garywt]

So I keep reading the figure up to $155. I am paying $159. I have no issue with that just wondering if others are paying $159. I live up north off 42 and just bought in March.

[valuemkt]

Definitely YES! While TV is a wonderful place to retire, many similar communities include lawn maintenance, gym membership, woodworking facilities, etc., etc. in their monthly fees. Also most don't have the bonds and annual fees we have to pay to each CDD district. Many residents live on fixed incomes and were misled re the fees they're obligated to pay.

For those who say if you're unhappy move, I say you miss the point by a long shot.

If anyone moved here and expected the amenity fees to remain the same for the life of their stay in The Villages, they weren't misled, they were living in a dream world. And yes, if you;re that unhappy, then don't let the tailgate hit you on your way out..

[Goldwingnut]

So I keep reading the figure up to $155. I am paying $159. I have no issue with that just wondering if others are paying $159. I live up north off 42 and just bought in March.

Effective 1 October 2018 the prevailing rate for all new home and resales was increased to $159 for homes sold after this date. There is no CPI adjustment being applied to the $159 because it is at or above the current deferral rate of $155.

On 1 October 2019 the "deferral rate" will end and subsequently on the anniversary of you home sale the amenity rate will be adjusted by the amount of the CPI that month for the previous 12 months. This is in accordance with the deed restrictions contract we all agreed to when we purchased.

So yes, because you purchased in March, be it new or a resale, the correct amenity rate is $159. In March of next year you will see an increase based on the CPI, which for the last few years has run 1.5-2% annually. Everyone else who purchased after 1 October 2018 are also paying the $159 rate.

[ColdNoMore]

:bigbow:Agree 100%- the POA has always looked out for the residents- unlike the HOA which cow tows to the developer. From the lawsuit settlement of some $40 mil by mostly POA organizers, to most issues affecting us, the POA has spoken out loudly and spent much on needed professionals to support their opinions.
I personally have been a member since moving to TV 16 years ago and have always supported them. Hopefully, all new Villagers will join that outstanding organization before the sales dept hoodwinks them into only joining the HOA.

I couldn't agree more and in case you missed it..... :D

Thank Goodness For The POA (click here to show your support) (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/thank-goodness-poa-288923/)


As for the amenity fees, if anyone is truly having issues with the piddly potential increase...I'm thinking you may want to find somewhere that's less expensive to live.

Because let's face it, living in TV really is...on the high end for the house/land that you actually get.

And I don't mean that to sound uncaring, because it certainly isn't, and if anyone is living on that tight of a budget...my empathy goes out to you. :(

If even an extra $20-$30 a month will make that big of a difference for someone's situation...then I truly hope nothing ever happens to your roof/lawn/sprinklers/siding/etc.

The good news being of course, is that at least you own an asset...that is pretty easy to sell. :thumbup:

[JoMar]

Strongly suggest you read the entire post, especially the 2nd paragraph, not just the last line. While most of us Villagers enjoy our lives here and don't deny its wonders, it has grown exponentially- mostly for the developer's benefit, not the residents. Under the original developer, Harold Schwarz, the residents were no. 1 and that's why we brought our old neighbors and friends here. Sadly, money comes 1st for the developer who refuses to step in and rectify problems he created (roofs, siding, bridge abutments. inadequate multimodal trails, etc. The growth and excess spending by the CDDs is almost unbelievable, often due to poor planning or inadequate building construction. Like most governments, they know how to spend and don't pay enough attention to reducing expenditures which we get stuck paying for.

Other than the POA, no one is looking out for the residents.


From discussions I have had with residents have been here for a long time, they remember the days when they had to go to Ocala and Leesburg to shop for groceries and when 466 was a dirt road. They embrace the growth because it brought shopping, restaurants, entertainment, etc. We embrace the growth because it will bring more of all that and more amenities. One thing I will ask is where have you bought property that had more than a one year warranty? And what other Developer accepted a punch list at the end of the year and fixed everything on the list. As I have often said, this place isn't for everyone, but it is for the majority that live here. If it wasn't it would be a ghost town and nobody would move here......incoming exceeds outgoing but that doesn't mean that those that move out aren't doing that for any reason other than it doesn't work for them anymore. And that's not a bad thing.

[Mjsscotto]

You are right on. Our district eliminated the $150 cap so now they are free to increase the fee year after year and as much as they like We elect these people who are making these decisions. Time to vote them out. We need officials who fight for cost reduction and homeowners
Anyone can raise fees and taxes to pay for increases they face. Let’s see the budget line by line I’m with you. Michael

[JoMar]

You are right on. Our district eliminated the $150 cap so now they are free to increase the fee year after year and as much as they like We elect these people who are making these decisions. Time to vote them out. We need officials who fight for cost reduction and homeowners
Anyone can raise fees and taxes to pay for increases they face. Let’s see the budget line by line I’m with you. Michael

Noooo, they can only raise by the CPI and the line item budget is available....how did you miss that on this thread?

[Goldwingnut]

You are right on. Our district eliminated the $150 cap so now they are free to increase the fee year after year and as much as they like We elect these people who are making these decisions. Time to vote them out. We need officials who fight for cost reduction and homeowners
Anyone can raise fees and taxes to pay for increases they face. Let’s see the budget line by line I’m with you. Michael

You are grossly misinformed. The amenity rate can only be increased a maximum of the CPI increase for the previous 12 months. It does not have to be increased that much if the budgetary needs do not require it.

The budget is available for everyone to see and you can participate in the annual budgeting process over the course of the next few months at the monthly CDD, PWAC, and AAC meetings.

You obviously have never been to any of the local government meetings, if you had you would see that the elected supervisors and the District staff are constantly pushing for cost controls, reductions in cost, and greater efficiencies to control costs.

Digital courage is cheap, come to the meetings, get involved, and run for office if you think you can do a better job. Most of all, get educated on the topic before making such rash and irresponsible statements.

If you want to see an example of effective budgetary controls take a look at the maintenance budget for CDD-10 for the last 5 years. During this time maintenance assessments have decreased by 3% and capital reserves have increased by a million dollars. This requires a tremendous amount of work and effort by all involved in the process to achieve. Your supervisors are working for you, continuously.

[Kenswing]

I don't live in The Villages yet, but I think the Amenity fee is very reasonable and I would expect them to go up over time. The prices of things don't stay static, I wouldn't expect the fees to remain so either.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I don't live in The Villages yet, but I think the Amenity fee is very reasonable and I would expect them to go up over time. The prices of things don't stay static, I wouldn't expect the fees to remain so either.

Absolutely agree with this. Do I 'like' that I'm paying more per month after actually buying our home, than when I first looked at the home? Nope. What really bugs me is that it was a difference of a week. We had locked in our offer in February. We closed a week later, in March. And because of that, we have to pay the higher monthly rate.

[edit: hey my math was wrong! Check out the new numbers, not as bad! Still a lunch or a couple of drinks in a year's time we wouldn't get to enjoy but...]

Sure it's only a couple of bucks, but a couple of bucks, per month, for a year (minimum) and that's almost a lawn service bill for a month. Or just over half a week's grocery bill. Or a couple of movie tickets and hotdogs, that we would otherwise not be able to enjoy.

In other words, it's over $25 less that we have available to spend on anything else, this coming year, at the very minimum. All because of one week.

HOWEVER...
the fact that the total is so reasonable in the first place, means it's affordable. If a $100/year increase was a deal-breaker, we wouldn't have put in the offer in the first place, we would've found a less expensive property in the Villages or in another state.

I'd like to see everyone in the Villages pay the same amenity fee. Not gonna happen, but I'll never understand why it is that we all can enjoy the same amenities and some people get to pay less than we do, just because they bought their home before I did. Their amenities cost the same, whether it's them or us using them.

[manaboutown]

Statistically as seniors within a 55 and over community age they use fewer amenities, especially golf courses, tennis courts and gyms, as they are not as physically vigorous as they once were. Furthermore many retirees are more or less on fixed incomes which over time with inflation means they have less to spend. Considering these factors the current amenity fee structure makes sense to me. Nonetheless, the cap may have to be raised to maintain the infrastructure.

[Garywt]

Effective 1 October 2018 the prevailing rate for all new home and resales was increased to $159 for homes sold after this date. There is no CPI adjustment being applied to the $159 because it is at or above the current deferral rate of $155.

On 1 October 2019 the "deferral rate" will end and subsequently on the anniversary of you home sale the amenity rate will be adjusted by the amount of the CPI that month for the previous 12 months. This is in accordance with the deed restrictions contract we all agreed to when we purchased.

So yes, because you purchased in March, be it new or a resale, the correct amenity rate is $159. In March of next year you will see an increase based on the CPI, which for the last few years has run 1.5-2% annually. Everyone else who purchased after 1 October 2018 are also paying the $159 rate.

Thanks, I have no issue with the $159 and knew going in that the fee would be $159. Just found it odd that no one was talking about anything over $155.

[villages07]

I have been here for 13 years. My amenity fee has gone from $125/month to $155 in that time, an approximate 25% total increase or roughly less than 2% per year while the number and quality of amenities have increased.

For perspective, during that same period my auto insurance has doubled, with no claims.

So, I’m in the camp that says we get great value for our amenity fee. I never expected it to stay the same and am pleased that it has increased at a very reasonable rate.

Gold wing...one thing you said was new to me, if I interpreted it correctly. It sounds as if there are 3 amenity budgets...N of 466, 466 to 44, and below 44, each directed and managed and approved by a separate central CDD. Could this lead to an inconsistent application of amenity fees? For example, one area puts more into executive golf course maintenance while another central district decides to skimp there...thus leading to uneven conditions. I always viewed the amenities as a single entity, usable to all, with a consistent level of funding for maintenance and operation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Goldwingnut]

I have been here for 13 years. My amenity fee has gone from $125/month to $155 in that time, an approximate 25% total increase or roughly less than 2% per year while the number and quality of amenities have increased.

For perspective, during that same period my auto insurance has doubled, with no claims.

So, I’m in the camp that says we get great value for our amenity fee. I never expected it to stay the same and am pleased that it has increased at a very reasonable rate.

Gold wing...one thing you said was new to me, if I interpreted it correctly. It sounds as if there are 3 amenity budgets...N of 466, 466 to 44, and below 44, each directed and managed and approved by a separate central CDD. Could this lead to an inconsistent application of amenity fees? For example, one area puts more into executive golf course maintenance while another central district decides to skimp there...thus leading to uneven conditions. I always viewed the amenities as a single entity, usable to all, with a consistent level of funding for maintenance and operation.


Technically you are correct, there are 3 budgets associated with the amenities: the Recreations Amenities Division (RAD) budget that manages the amenities north of CR466, the Sumter Landing Amenities Division (SLAD) budget that manages the amenities between CR466 and SR44, and the developer's operations budget for the amenities south of SR44.

The RAD budget is managed by the AAC and approved by the VCCDD. All budgets and records are available for public review and input.
The SLAD budget is managed by the PWAC and approved by the SLCDD. All budgets and records are available for public review and input.
The developer's budget for amenities south of SR44 is a private business and not subject to public disclosure. They own the amenities and operate them as a part of their overall business.

While it is possible that there could be different levels of care and maintenance to the facilities in these three areas, it is currently not an issue. It could become an issue if the ability to fund the maintenance and operation of the amenities is jeopardized. This is one of the reasons that the Deferral Rate is being eliminated and we are going back to the contract terms we all agreed to when we purchase our homes. There are also continued extraordinary efforts by the District Staff and the various departments on finding cost savings, economies, and improved operating strategies to help fill any budget gaps.

A key to maintaining consistency throughout The Villages is the use of a single District Staff by all areas to develop the contracts and scope of services as well as having one managing entity for all. There is only one Recreation Department that oversees all three areas.

Part of what prevents different levels of service are the existing inter-local agreements between the three entities that mandates equal treatment and availability of amenities for all residents regardless of where they live in The Villages. Another key factor that drives maintaining the level of service and condition of the amenities is the bonds that have been issued to purchase them, any reduction or degradation of service or maintenance that would impact the value of the amenities will impact the value of the bonds. This is not something we want to or could afford.

The governing bodies strive hard to maintain a consistent level of service and quality across all of The Villages, and for the average Villages one or three budgets, it goes unnoticed.

[jojo]

Technically you are correct, there are 3 budgets associated with the amenities: the Recreations Amenities Division (RAD) budget that manages the amenities north of CR466, the Sumter Landing Amenities Division (SLAD) budget that manages the amenities between CR466 and SR44, and the developer's operations budget for the amenities south of SR44.

The RAD budget is managed by the AAC and approved by the VCCDD. All budgets and records are available for public review and input.
The SLAD budget is managed by the PWAC and approved by the SLCDD. All budgets and records are available for public review and input.
The developer's budget for amenities south of SR44 is a private business and not subject to public disclosure. They own the amenities and operate them as a part of their overall business.

While it is possible that there could be different levels of care and maintenance to the facilities in these three areas, it is currently not an issue. It could become an issue if the ability to fund the maintenance and operation of the amenities is jeopardized. This is one of the reasons that the Deferral Rate is being eliminated and we are going back to the contract terms we all agreed to when we purchase our homes. There are also continued extraordinary efforts by the District Staff and the various departments on finding cost savings, economies, and improved operating strategies to help fill any budget gaps.

A key to maintaining consistency throughout The Villages is the use of a single District Staff by all areas to develop the contracts and scope of services as well as having one managing entity for all. There is only one Recreation Department that oversees all three areas.

Part of what prevents different levels of service are the existing inter-local agreements between the three entities that mandates equal treatment and availability of amenities for all residents regardless of where they live in The Villages. Another key factor that drives maintaining the level of service and condition of the amenities is the bonds that have been issued to purchase them, any reduction or degradation of service or maintenance that would impact the value of the amenities will impact the value of the bonds. This is not something we want to or could afford.

The governing bodies strive hard to maintain a consistent level of service and quality across all of The Villages, and for the average Villages one or three budges, it goes unnoticed.

Good question Villages 07 and most informative and reassuring response.

[maureenod]

Absolutely agree with this. Do I 'like' that I'm paying more per month after actually buying our home, than when I first looked at the home? Nope. What really bugs me is that it was a difference of a week. We had locked in our offer in February. We closed a week later, in March. And because of that, we have to pay the higher monthly rate.

[edit: hey my math was wrong! Check out the new numbers, not as bad! Still a lunch or a couple of drinks in a year's time we wouldn't get to enjoy but...]

Sure it's only a couple of bucks, but a couple of bucks, per month, for a year (minimum) and that's almost a lawn service bill for a month. Or just over half a week's grocery bill. Or a couple of movie tickets and hotdogs, that we would otherwise not be able to enjoy.

In other words, it's over $25 less that we have available to spend on anything else, this coming year, at the very minimum. All because of one week.

HOWEVER...
the fact that the total is so reasonable in the first place, means it's affordable. If a $100/year increase was a deal-breaker, we wouldn't have put in the offer in the first place, we would've found a less expensive property in the Villages or in another state.

I'd like to see everyone in the Villages pay the same amenity fee. Not gonna happen, but I'll never understand why it is that we all can enjoy the same amenities and some people get to pay less than we do, just because they bought their home before I did. Their amenities cost the same, whether it's them or us using them.

When you "locked in" the price of your house, it had nothing to do with the amenity fee. Your broker neglected to inform you that all resale have increase amenity fee.

[mtdjed]

I am probably in the minority but have not been aware of any rate change affecting me by $40 to $50/month or 25%. Haven't had any neighbors complaining. What have I missed? I live in The Village of Caroline.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

When you "locked in" the price of your house, it had nothing to do with the amenity fee. Your broker neglected to inform you that all resale have increase amenity fee.

I'm thinking you didn't understand any of my post. I apologize for not being clear enough.

I knew in advance that closing in March would mean that my fee would be higher, than if I had closed in February. Knowing this is exactly why I was (very slightly) annoyed: because our closing was just a week too late to get in on the lower rate.