Outside entertainment at LSL

[JTW]

I just heard through the "grapevine" that there will be NO outside music from now on any place in or around Lake Sumter Landing due to folks across the lake complaining. Is there any truth to that rumor? I did call Redsauce and they confirmed that karoke is over for the summer months and admitted it was not THEIR idea to cancel it. I am wondering if it's possible for a few people to warrant such a change in entertainment schedules because they don't like music after 9 pm. Does anyone know the real story??:throwtomatoes::throwtomatoes:

[skip0358]

This is what happened at Havana CC last year. I think we should hand out ear plugs when we sign our closing papers.Sure hope this is another BS story.

[Talk Host]

Question! Are residents who reside near Sumter Landing or Havana Country Club entitled to peace and quiet if they choose to retire at or shortly after
9 p.m.? Do the rights of the party goers supersede the rights of the near-by residents? Whose rights prevail?

[petenj]

Part of moving to TV was for the entertainment at the various venues. They should continue and not be curtailed because of a few. Who by the way knew in advance that these types of entertainment were advertised as an incentive for living in TV. I assume the scheduled entertainment ends at 9pm according to the schedule.
It's also unfair to take away this entertainment from the many who bought in expecting to be entertained. Am I missing something?

[K9-Lovers]

The residents who are near Sumter Landing and Havana Country Club CHOSE to live there, knowing full well that those locations are entertainment venues. This scenario is similar to those who choose to buy property here and then want to change the restrictions! If you do your homework in advance of your purchase, then you know the pros and cons of buying in a particular location. If you don't do your homework, then shame on you.

I think it would be delightful to be able to sit on my lanai and hear the quality entertainment that is offered. Folks who bought near the squares or country clubs and are now surprised that there is evening entertainment, should either move further away, or join the party. :shrug:

[bluedog103]

Seems to me that if you buy near LSL, you should expect some noise. If you live near an airport there will be planes, if you live near the ocean there will be gulls, etc.
Unless the residents were there before LSL, I see no basis for complaint.

[villages07]

For clarification.... I believe the original post was talking about outside music scheduled to BEGIN after 9 pm or that lasts past 9pm.

The daily 5-9pm live entertainment on the square is not in question.

I would also assume that any establishment that has live music after 9pm indoors would not be affected.

Outside entertainment after 9pm (RJ Gators, RedSauce) just started last summer.

It'll be interesting to see if this is truth or fiction and just how many folks have complained. Any Bridgeport residents who can contribute to this discussion???

[Pturner]

The grapevine is a pretty iffy source. ...

[Taj44]

The problem is we have the juxtaposition of retail/commercial and residential areas in The Villages. I am sure there are people who bought near Havana who never realized there would be music outdoors every night of the week, since Havana Country Club wasn't even open at the time when many of the lots were for sale. In any event, I think it is a compromise for the outside music to end after 9:00. If people want continue to drink and party they can do it outside without music, or go inside and enjoy entertainment, and people who live in the area can enjoy their lanai for an hour or so without the blast of music in the background.

[bluedog103]

As Pt pointed out, the grapevine is not an especially reliable source of information. If it is accurate, the responsibility still falls on the homeowner. The town square is just that. Commercial areas are dynamic locations. The shoe store you see today can easily be a coffee house tomorrow and a restaurant next year. Change is guaranteed. If you like that kind of vibrance, that convenience to commercial establishments of all sorts, the area around the town square is where you want to be. I promise you that the square will be in constant change. The scheduled music at the square is just a small part of the personality of that area.
If you expect everything to quiet down at 9:00 P.M. you probably bought in the wrong neighborhood.

[KathieI]

Unfortunately, this is not a rumor but is true. Red Sauce started their outdoor entertainment only a few weeks ago on Thurs and Friday nights starting at 9pm till 10:30 or 11, depending on the night. All of the ordinances were fully met as far as crowd control, noise control, and serving liquor after a certain hour. The 9pm start time was dictated by the villages mgt as it was not to compete with the entertainment on the squares. RJ Gator's is not affected by this as its music is INDOORS not outdoors but it does also start after 9pm. The same is true for Urban Flats.

Red Sauce is shut down as of now but we hope it will return in the near future. The entertainment was enjoyed by many people and brought a lot of new business to the stores and restaurants in that area.

If you look at one of the most popular threads on TOTV about the 8pm curfew, you will see all of the pros and cons about outdoor music. Since I am one of the nightlife people here in TV and am too old to be a baby boomer, I would think that the boomers would not be too happy that all the entertainment stops at 9pm and we should all go home at that early hour. Let me also add, that the music is top-notch, not rap or inexperienced entertainers, but definitely professional, and great sounding dance music. The talent of the karaoke singers here in TV is absolutely fantastic and I know if you would come to listen to it, you would fully enjoy yourselves.

This is just an update from the nightlife mayor of TV and its just my own opinion.

Another interesting point, if the entertainment stops at 9pm, that will mean the restaurants will also close at 9pm, why would they bother to stay open?

[Talk Host]

I can't help but think that I would be annoyed if I was told by my sales rep that music stops at 9 p.m. and I bought my house as a result. Then suddenly, it's now going til 11 p.m.......all the time. Doing ones homework before buying could never reveal that such a dramatic change would occur.

The Villages is a retirement community. Most people came here to relax and rest. I think that if I were in the affected area, I would be upset, particularly if I were chronically ill or infirmed.

Why isn't the music inside? Because it annoys the patrons inside?

[skip0358]

:confused:There you have it people, it's not rumor. I for one don't agree with curfews. If your read your deed restrictions even in your own neighborhood you don't have to tone it down till 10PM. If your not happy contact corporate. As for Urban Flats and Cody's music I for one thought it was pretty damn good.:shrug:

[helios]

As cities across the country evolve, they find that they need to adopt noise or music ordinances. The rehabilitation of downtowns, often pit nighttime music against people who want to live close by.
The solutions uniformly arrived at are a noise ordinance, that settles upon a decibel level determined at a certain distance, as being the answer.

These ordinances use decreasing decibels as the night progresses. Often a stepdown at 12 am, another when the legal drinking time is reached.

Certainly to adopt an all or nothing approach is unreasonable, closing a business that people frequent is just as wrong as expecting perpetual silence.

[Bogie Shooter]

Was Red Sauce asked to stop the music because of loud noise or the congregation of a large crowd, made up of residents and nonresidents? I seem to recall a post in the past that suggested that is why it was stopped last year. Just wondering.

[Rag Bagger]

This area is different. Suprise, suprise it's a retirement community. However it is a very active retirement community. It just so happens that the activity here historically starts at 6 or 7am with physical activities and has more or less shut down at 9PM with music at the country clubs, on the square or other resturaunts. I think the home owners close to these areas have a right to expect reasonable noise control after 9pm. It's always been that way and those are the reason they bought here.

It seems to me it's Red Sauce that didn't do the home work. Either legally or as a common sense issue. They started the entertainment as a money stream and that is good but not at the expense of home owners who have lived here for years. That's just not fair play.

The take it inside or control the noise leve to a certain decible level may be an answer.

[Rag Bagger]

I just heard through the "grapevine" that there will be NO outside music from now on any place in or around Lake Sumter Landing due to folks across the lake complaining. Is there any truth to that rumor? I did call Redsauce and they confirmed that karoke is over for the summer months and admitted it was not THEIR idea to cancel it. I am wondering if it's possible for a few people to warrant such a change in entertainment schedules because they don't like music after 9 pm. Does anyone know the real story??:throwtomatoes::throwtomatoes:

One of the things that really annoys me about threads like this. Some one probably said they are stoping late night music at Sumter Landing and all of a sudden it turns in to NO!! music at SL. Don't you all remember your civics teachers about the credibility of rumors

[skip0358]

Sec. 16-107. Specific prohibitions.
The following specified acts and circumstances are hereby declared to constitute prohibited noise disturbances in violation of this article; provided however, such enumeration is not and shall not be deemed to be exclusive; provided further that all other acts and circumstances meeting the definition of noise disturbance are likewise declared to be in violation of this article.
(1) Radios, televisions, musical instruments and similar devices, and amplified human voice. Playing or permitting the playing of any radio, television, musical instrument or similar device, whether amplified or not amplified, or amplifying the human voice in such a manner or with such volume as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort and repose of a reasonable person in any type of residence or place of business; provided, however, this prohibition shall not apply to regularly scheduled outdoor entertainment activities in the downtown or urban areas within developments of regional impact, so long as such events terminate not later than 10:00 p.m.
So there are 2 choices have the square play music till 10PM or have the affected restaurants move the music inside. Case Closed

[dillywho]

:confused:I am not an early riser. That being said, I am awakened by trash collectors, lawn maintenance people, people walking shouting out or talking loud to greet one another, etc., and some of this as early as 5:30 or 6 AM. Do I complain that the trash needs to be collected after 9 AM, or that yards be taken care of after 9, or that people talk/greet each other after I get up? No. If I (or anyone else) want quiet at a time that suits me (or them) and not everyone else, then live in the country. If this were happening at 2, 3, or 4 in the morning, that would be different....but 10 or 11 at night? Come on!

I don't remember seeing anything in the videos or on our preview visit that said anything about a 9:00 curfew, either.

[Pturner]

Unfortunately, this is not a rumor but is true. Red Sauce started their outdoor entertainment only a few weeks ago on Thurs and Friday nights starting at 9pm till 10:30 or 11, depending on the night. All of the ordinances were fully met as far as crowd control, noise control, and serving liquor after a certain hour. The 9pm start time was dictated by the villages mgt as it was not to compete with the entertainment on the squares. RJ Gator's is not affected by this as its music is INDOORS not outdoors but it does also start after 9pm. The same is true for Urban Flats.

Red Sauce is shut down as of now but we hope it will return in the near future. The entertainment was enjoyed by many people and brought a lot of new business to the stores and restaurants in that area.

If you look at one of the most popular threads on TOTV about the 8pm curfew, you will see all of the pros and cons about outdoor music. Since I am one of the nightlife people here in TV and am too old to be a baby boomer, I would think that the boomers would not be too happy that all the entertainment stops at 9pm and we should all go home at that early hour. Let me also add, that the music is top-notch, not rap or inexperienced entertainers, but definitely professional, and great sounding dance music. The talent of the karaoke singers here in TV is absolutely fantastic and I know if you would come to listen to it, you would fully enjoy yourselves.

This is just an update from the nightlife mayor of TV and its just my own opinion.

Another interesting point, if the entertainment stops at 9pm, that will mean the restaurants will also close at 9pm, why would they bother to stay open?


:wave: Mayor,
I'm confused (what else is new). Is Red Sauce closing or staying open, but discontinuing outdoor music after 9 p.m.? If staying open, will it have music indoors after 9 p.m.? If all ordinances were being met, why the change? Is Red Sauce the only establishment that is affected?

Thanks for any clarification you can provide!

[Talk Host]

Usually, in this country, the MAJORITY is suppose to rule. I'm guessing that the majority of the residents are in their homes and not at the square after 9 p.m. I also am guessing that the reason for noise ordinances in most cities is because of the wishes of the majority.

Let's answer this question. What should be the absolute "shut down" time of loud outside music?

Another supposition. If you are one of the late night partiers at Red Sauce and after a long night of dancing and merrymaking, you flop into bed at midnight......but your neighbor next door begins practicing "Lady of Spain" on his accordion on the lanai at 1 a.m., what would you do?

[Taj44]

This area is different. Suprise, suprise it's a retirement community. However it is a very active retirement community. It just so happens that the activity here historically starts at 6 or 7am with physical activities and has more or less shut down at 9PM with music at the country clubs, on the square or other resturaunts. I think the home owners close to these areas have a right to expect reasonable noise control after 9pm. It's always been that way and those are the reason they bought here.

It seems to me it's Red Sauce that didn't do the home work. Either legally or as a common sense issue. They started the entertainment as a money stream and that is good but not at the expense of home owners who have lived here for years. That's just not fair play.

The take it inside or control the noise leve to a certain decible level may be an answer.

Good Post. No one is saying that the music isn't good, or that it doesn't bring in business. Obviously its a money maker or they wouldn't try to do it. But as stated, homeowners purchased their homes given the impression that there would be noise control after 9 pm. These businesses can still take their music inside. What's the problem? Sounds like a good compromise to me.

[kentucky blue]

Whatever they decide with the music is fine by me, but TV isn't selling a place to rest and relax.I'm one of those baby boomers who is buying into the lifestyle.If i wanted a place to rest and relax i would be going elsewhere, certainly not here.The energy of the villagers, i saw last week on my visit, was incredible.The Chubby Checker concert was a blast, everybody up on their feet and dancing.I'm looking to buy in the Village of Bridgeport , and would love to hear the music at the LSL in the evenings .You all live in paradise, enjoy everything TV has to offer, let the music play:p

[TrudyM]

Sec. 16-107. Specific prohibitions.
The following specified acts and circumstances are hereby declared to constitute prohibited noise disturbances in violation of this article; provided however, such enumeration is not and shall not be deemed to be exclusive; provided further that all other acts and circumstances meeting the definition of noise disturbance are likewise declared to be in violation of this article.
(1) Radios, televisions, musical instruments and similar devices, and amplified human voice. Playing or permitting the playing of any radio, television, musical instrument or similar device, whether amplified or not amplified, or amplifying the human voice in such a manner or with such volume as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort and repose of a reasonable person in any type of residence or place of business; provided, however, this prohibition shall not apply to regularly scheduled outdoor entertainment activities in the downtown or urban areas within developments of regional impact, so long as such events terminate not later than 10:00 p.m. So there are 2 choices have the square play music till 10PM or have the affected restaurants move the music inside. Case Closed

IMHO Seems that a reasonable person could expect noise from a restaurant shopping core. That the ordinance quoted above says 10 PM. I am married to a go to work at 4:30 to avoid traffic and first tee time of the day golfer. I always remind him that 10 - 11 Pm on a Friday night is not unreasonably late to have noise. On our wish list we set our no closer than limit at a mile from the squares for just that reason. That said no noise decebel level should ever be high enough to make Television watching and conversation inside a problem. I am not there so I just wonder how loud is this music?
The rule in suburban living is what a reasonable person could expect and there is the rub everyone thinks their opinion is reasonable.

[skip0358]

If it was someone on the other side of the Lake which is very large and very far from those houses. The music could'nt be that loud. I've heard music from Red Sauce and also Cody's and belive it's not that loud to bother someone on the other side of the lake.IMHO.

[Rag Bagger]

Actually it's pretty close. A pro Golfer drives a ball across the lake every year from The Lighthouse.
I use to live on a boat and noise really travels across water because there is nothing to absorb or redirect the sound waves. And if the house is down wind it will make the sound carry even more. I had heard the music from Red Sauce a few times. It did seem louder than what was on the square.
The people across the lake shouldn't have to sit inside with the doors and windows closed due to the noise. So I think there has to be some courtesy here. Don't ya think.
My quess is that the past month have been really great outside in the evening and the home owners in the area are sitting outside and are tired of the music. It wouldn't bother me but then I like that train noise everybody complains about. I grew up near a train track and it reminds me of my childhood home.

[ceejay]

:confused:I am not an early riser. That being said, I am awakened by trash collectors, lawn maintenance people, people walking shouting out or talking loud to greet one another, etc., and some of this as early as 5:30 or 6 AM. Do I complain that the trash needs to be collected after 9 AM, or that yards be taken care of after 9, or that people talk/greet each other after I get up? No. If I (or anyone else) want quiet at a time that suits me (or them) and not everyone else, then live in the country. If this were happening at 2, 3, or 4 in the morning, that would be different....but 10 or 11 at night? Come on!
I don't remember seeing anything in the videos or on our preview visit that said anything about a 9:00 curfew, either.

:agree::beer3::agree:

[Bogie Shooter]

Here is a thread where you can get ideas for posting to this thread. Just insert Lake Sumter Landing for Havana.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25528&highlight=noise+havana

[Talk Host]

Nobody answered my accordion question.

[Bogie Shooter]

Nobody answered my accordion question.

Great question. I would ask him to switch to a polka medley!

[NJblue]

Here is a thread where you can get ideas for posting to this thread. Just insert Lake Sumter Landing for Havana.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25528&highlight=noise+havana

I was one of the main opponents to the late night music at Havana. However, I don't think these two situations are interchangeable for the following reasons:

1) the music is MUCH closer to the houses at Havana. Since music dissipates considerably with distance, this makes a big difference in the annoyance factor. It wouldn't surprise me that someone living across the lake could hear some music drifting across the lake, but I doubt that it would be truly annoying unless someone demanded total silence.

2) When one buys a house close to a town square one has to assume that there is a liklihood of nightlife. Just as one buying a house near any downtown area, noise coming from night time establishments should be assumed. On the other hand, someone doing due diligence in looking at the CCs in TV would not see late-night, loud, outdoor music as the norm.

So, if this is anything more than a rumor, I'd like to see how a crackdown on music in LSL is allowed while the Havana music apparently was allowed to continue until at least 11:00 as I recall. To me the situations should be reversed.

[Hawkwind]

Anyone ever think it may be someone from over in the Lake Shore Cottages area that is doing the complaining?

[Bogie Shooter]

No one has yet determined if this is just a rumor. The Red Sauce side was explained....what about the powers that shut it down. Or is this all just more hand wringing over nothing.
Where is ZCaveman when we need him?

[redwitch]

I live by the 466/Morse gate. There are nights that I can hear the music from the restaurants well after 9:00 pm. On occasion, I've even heard music and singing after midnight (but that was before the outdoor music curfew occurred at Spanish Springs). I honestly hate to imagine what it sounded like to those living closer to Spanish Springs.

That being said, I also understand that the karaoke/music is really a survival issue for many restaurants around the squares. Most profits come from beverages, not food in restaurants and we've seen too many decent restaurants die near the squares.

We need to find a compromise -- no outside music after 11:00 pm sounds fair to me and with speakers turned down to a reasonable level (we do want to be able to hear the music and singing if there, but there's no reason to have it blasting). For those who go to bed early, it really shouldn't be much of an issue -- the houses are situated so that the bedrooms face away from the squares (good planning on someone's part). For those who feel it interferes with conversation in their lanais, I doubt there is a reasonable solution that will make either side happy. Bars, live music and local residents have always been at odds and I'd guess they always will be.

[BETHPAGE BLACK]

I can't help but think that I would be annoyed if I was told by my sales rep that music stops at 9 p.m. and I bought my house as a result. Then suddenly, it's now going til 11 p.m.......all the time. Doing ones homework before buying could never reveal that such a dramatic change would occur.

The Villages is a retirement community. Most people came here to relax and rest. I think that if I were in the affected area, I would be upset, particularly if I were chronically ill or infirmed.

Why isn't the music inside? Because it annoys the patrons inside?

The Villages is noted as "AN ACTIVE ADULT COMMUNITY"..if I wanted to retire and rest (and be quiet and go to bed at 9pm) I would not have purchased TV... Does any one realize that LSL is open to the public and that the businesses there pay huge amounts of money to operate there and are entitled to do make a profit? These businesses are the meat and potatoes of our community: without them TV is a ghost town...

[eremite06]

Sec. 16-107. Specific prohibitions.
The following specified acts and circumstances are hereby declared to constitute prohibited noise disturbances in violation of this article; provided however, such enumeration is not and shall not be deemed to be exclusive; provided further that all other acts and circumstances meeting the definition of noise disturbance are likewise declared to be in violation of this article.
(1) Radios, televisions, musical instruments and similar devices, and amplified human voice. Playing or permitting the playing of any radio, television, musical instrument or similar device, whether amplified or not amplified, or amplifying the human voice in such a manner or with such volume as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort and repose of a reasonable person in any type of residence or place of business; provided, however, this prohibition shall not apply to regularly scheduled outdoor entertainment activities in the downtown or urban areas within developments of regional impact, so long as such events terminate not later than 10:00 p.m.
So there are 2 choices have the square play music till 10PM or have the affected restaurants move the music inside. Case Closed

.....and according to Florida law one is entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of one's property.

[Bogie Shooter]

Have they sold any of these "cottages"? Heck, you can get a Prmier for the same price!
There are 48 homes in there and 17 have been sold.

[KathieI]

Just got a phone call from Patrick, we're on for karaoke tonight at Red Sauce at 9pm....

I'm really sorry for those of you who feel we are disturbing you, and I don't mean to rub this in your faces, but I am so happy we have these places to go to at night and we get such enjoyment out of it, and I will ask Patrick to monitor the noise level with his meter reader and promise you that we will keep the level to a civilized manner.

But, please try to drop by, you will really enjoy the quality of entertainers we have in TV, they are some of the most fantastic voices I have ever heard, plus we have so much fun with the doo wop stuff. Please drop by, I'll even buy you a drink (coke that is, LOL).

[Russ_Boston]

These businesses are the meat and potatoes of our community: without them TV is a ghost town...

Even if business fail eventually they'd have to lower the lease rates to get someone in there. Law of supply and demand.

Don't get me wrong here. We all want LSL, SS and Brownwood to succeed and we love having them available but 'ghost town'? I don't think so.

[Russ_Boston]

Please drop by, I'll even buy you a drink (coke that is, LOL).


Make it a Yuengling draft and you have a deal:)

[Taj44]

.....and according to Florida law one is entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of one's property.

I agree. Other cities have noise ordinances that okay outdoor music and such up to 8:00 p.m. during the week, and 10 p.m. on weekends. In my opinion, a compromise of this sort is in order so people living near the Squares and near noisy country clubs can enjoy their homes. Being an active adult doesn't mean you have to be active outside. Nothing wrong with bringing it inside after a certain hour, it certainly won't curtail your activities. Compromise is about everyone giving up a little.

And I've been to Karaoke once or twice, and it was so incredibly loud being right there, it wasn't even fun (for me). That was a while ago, so maybe they're monitoring their noise level and keeping it down, I don't know. But I could see how that intense noise level would carry a long way and bother the residents.

[Bogie Shooter]

Just got a phone call from Patrick, we're on for karaoke tonight at Red Sauce at 9pm....

I'm really sorry for those of you who feel we are disturbing you, and I don't mean to rub this in your faces, but I am so happy we have these places to go to at night and we get such enjoyment out of it, and I will ask Patrick to monitor the noise level with his meter reader and promise you that we will keep the level to a civilized manner.

But, please try to drop by, you will really enjoy the quality of entertainers we have in TV, they are some of the most fantastic voices I have ever heard, plus we have so much fun with the doo wop stuff. Please drop by, I'll even buy you a drink (coke that is, LOL).


I thought this had been banned. Was the original poster wrong? I don't care either way.......but why get people all riled up over nothing??

[Traveling man]

I'm with PT. The outside; after 9pm; is wonderful. I get home from work at 9PM.

[JTW]

I am curious..did you go to Redsauce on Friday night and was there any karoke going on? And was there outside entertainment on Saturday night at the Lighthouse till 11:00 as there has always been? Maybe someone will know the answers...