Sink Hole

[Nucky]

We were out goofing around a few days ago on a beautiful Golf Cart Ride investigating the beautiful Northern part of The Villages. No plan, No Destination Planned Either. Things were going well until we came across the Sink Hole and Damaged Houses and Damaged Lives and Damaged Retirements of Residents of our Community. We had seen pictures but weren't into disrespecting the affected resident like some did when it first occurred by driving by.

I truly am not overreacting. It is an absolute disgrace that this has been allowed to WALLOW for all this time. My eyes could not believe what they were looking at. It is a disaster area. I was in the construction business my entire life and know that this could be solved a thousand times faster than it has. The repair is Chicken Crap for a Construction Company. Now I'm not saying who is at fault but the people in charge at all levels that can do something to help our fellow Villages Residents should get their heads outta the Sink Hole and GET IT DONE PRONTO! How about a little respect for those who live up that way in an otherwise manicured and beautiful neighborhood.

The only reason I wouldn't publically assign guilt is I have no Concrete Proof. I do have my own thoughts on who is the most guilty parties. There are a few. Man am I Heated, and have been for a couple of days. I wish everyone up that way the absolute best going forward. I hope you all win a Zillion Dollar Lottery!

I would buy and live up that way in a minute. Everyone who has been affected by this is in our thoughts.

[bob47]

Excellent post. It is a disgrace.

[Garywt]

It is very sad. When we were last down there the neighbors had a series of meetings with various groups that could fix it. It is a shame that more months gave gone by and still nothing is getting done.

[Velvet]

Yes, I agree with your anger.
There must be a lot of money involved, that’s why the lawyers. If anyone admitted liability even to a degree the class action that would follow....
Between money and goodwill which would win out?

When I was looking for a home in TV, sink hole likelihood at a particular location was among my top priorities. Sales people “don’t know about it” , deny it, or consider it an unpredictable “act of God”. All of which is utter nonsense all it means is they are afraid of the consequences of admitting the facts. I did my own research. Calculated the probabilities of each location. Try to reduce my personal use of water especially irrigation to contribute as little as I can towards the formation of more sink holes.

Any ideas how to help the people effected?

[Nucky]

Maybe with a little luck becuase NOTHING ELSE WORKED we'll hear a loud POPPING noise and it will be someone's head coming out of you know. GIVE THESE PEOPLE HOPE AND ACT NOW. SHAMEFUL THIS IS. I gotta go I'm gonna stroke out!

[Nucky]

Yes, I agree with your anger.
There must be a lot of money involved, that’s why the lawyers. If anyone admitted liability even to a degree the class action that would follow....
Between money and goodwill which would win out?

When I was looking for a home in TV, sink hole likelihood at a particular location was among my top priorities. Sales people “don’t know about it” , deny it, or consider it an unpredictable “act of God”. All of which is utter nonsense all it means is they are afraid of the consequences of admitting the facts. I did my own research. Calculated the probabilities of each location. Try to reduce my personal use of water especially irrigation to contribute as little as I can towards the formation of more sink holes.

Any ideas how to help the people effected?

I'm not really sure but with all the Brain Power In The Tri-County Area and from other influential people who with the snap of a finger could have gotten the ball rolling many moons ago.

I think the best way to help them now is ACTION.

[B-flat]

I agree totally what’s already been posted it’s a disgrace. We are relatively new owners and live about half mile away from the sink hole. Here’s my experience not with this sink hole but one in a 55 Plus community called Oak Run in Ocala. One night a giant sink hole opened that made the one on McLawren Terrace look small. There was some finger pointing as to the cause and who was responsible. Did it happen because the soiled collapsed on a water line or was a water line that broke and eroded the soil. That’s not the point of my comment it’s more that it took a while but it did not take 16 months for a resolution to the problem. Below are a couple of links to the story on that issue. One note this sink hole was 528 feet from where our former seasonal home was located.

OakRun water main break or sink hole? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ftuFbfEtx1s)

Repairs delayed at Oak Run sinkhole - News - Ocala.com - Ocala, FL (https://www.ocala.com/article/LK/20151219/News/604149662/OS/)

[Midnight Cowgirl]

The fact that this situation has been going on for so long in Calumet Grove is nothing short of outrageous!
I find it strange that from the onset, the developer did not come forward to offer help.
I am NOT saying this was their fault but I am saying I believe it was the right thing to do as opposed to pretending the problem did not exist.

This situation has been going on for far too long and because of one meaningless delay after another, I think it's time for some drastic measures.
I have proposed this before. I believe it's time for residents to picket. Yes, you heard me; I said PICKET!
Carry signs and picket in the Squares. Picket in front of the sales office. Picket where the trolley picks up passengers.
This will most certainly draw attention to the problem and most certainly get attention and action.

I know I will be bombarded by others because of this comment, but it doesn't matter.
If someone has a better idea to get help for these people NOW -- fine. Let's hear it.
But for right now, these residents cannot sell their house and they are literally left holding the bag.
Many of those people are elderly. Too much time has passed and there they sit.
These poor people need all the help they can get.

[Chi-Town]

Nucky, next time you drive by take a picture; it could be woth a thousand words in this instance. Glad you're sharing your concern.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[justjim]

A sinkhole in or near our property could happen to anyone of us living here in The Villages or,elsewhere in Florida. The problem, as I see it, lies in Tallahassee. Our representatives have let us down when it comes to this issue. You are never going to get them”insurance industry” to properly provide the type of insurance needed to handle this problem. A self insured fund needs to be setup to handle the cost of fixing such sinkhole problems. Like the OP, I think it’s a disgrace what has happen to our neighbors and friends in the north end of The Villages.

[John_W]

Channel 9 in Orlando did a story on this about six months ago, you can find it at this link along with a printed story.

Calumet Grove – The Villages Sinkholes | Interactive Sinkhole Maps (https://sinkholemaps.com/blog/calumet-grove-the-villages-sinkholes/)

https://sinkholemaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/CalumetGrove.jpg

https://www.ocala-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Neumann-House.jpg

[sail33or]

As a Civil Engineer, this appears to be a construction issue. A sinkhole would be a dissolving of a deeper strata. This is a "surface" collapse from moving runoff water.

Regardless, the Developer (as rich as they are)(And I mean rich, rich) should just fix it. Because it would give future buyers comfort not to worry about locations of possible sinkholes. The Villages could actually insure themselves for sinkholes. If there were more attention and it affected home sales, they would step in.

Anyway, Developer should fix and then go after any money or insurance from all sources responsible.

[Barefoot]

It is an absolute disgrace that this has been allowed to WALLOW for all this time. My eyes could not believe what they were looking at. It is a disaster area. I was in the construction business my entire life and know that this could be solved a thousand times faster than it has. :agree:

[TommyT]

To me, the current administration for the Villages could care less.

When Gary Morse was running the show, sink hole damage was addressed post haste. I was told by Villagers that if you could not live in the home while repaired, you were put up by the Villages. That does not seem to be the case any more.

Within a few weeks, there was not a trace of sink-hole-damage. But now, ?????

[Nucky]

Channel 9 in Orlando did a story on this about six months ago, you can find it at this link along with a printed story.

Calumet Grove – The Villages Sinkholes | Interactive Sinkhole Maps (https://sinkholemaps.com/blog/calumet-grove-the-villages-sinkholes/)

https://sinkholemaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/CalumetGrove.jpg

https://www.ocala-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Neumann-House.jpg

Perfect Pictures, now just add about 2 to 3 feet of overgrown garbage and a breeding ground for insect, snakes, rats, who knows. It is hard to believe that in the land of other small things being a crisis that this is allowed to exist. Plus those Orange and White Humongous Traffic Blocking Jersey Barriers made of Plastic really add to the Two Addams Family or Munster Looking Shacks. The Pictures John supplied are beautiful compared to the condition now.

I would go to take the pictures but honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I wouldn't want to disrespect the existing residents with our presence there at this point. Maybe once everything is fixed up I would go up there again. Dog Poop, Problem, White Crosses, Problem, Men Driving With Their Leg hanging Outta The Golf Cart, Problem, This That and The Other Thing Problems that GET ATTENTION. But this Languishes! Methinks something is Rotten Somewhere. WAKE UP TODAY AND HELP THIS ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD, PLEASE! :pray:

I am out as of this post. I don't have anything of value to add now other than what I've shared. I wish I was Filthy Oracle Of The Villages Rich. With the stroke of a pen, I'd solve the entire thing for them. Unfortunately, I'm just me and really don't have any answer's here.

[Bjeanj]

As a Civil Engineer, this appears to be a construction issue. A sinkhole would be a dissolving of a deeper strata. This is a "surface" collapse from moving runoff water.

Regardless, the Developer (as rich as they are)(And I mean rich, rich) should just fix it. Because it would give future buyers comfort not to worry about locations of possible sinkholes. The Villages could actually insure themselves for sinkholes. If there were more attention and it affected home sales, they would step in.

Anyway, Developer should fix and then go after any money or insurance from all sources responsible.

Here’s my question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**, facetious, or anything other than straightforward.

Why would the developer get involved? He sold the home and land about 15 years ago, and presumably the land and infrastructure was completed maybe 15-20 years ago. The homeowner owns his land and home, the county or CDD is responsible for the streets and its maintenance and repair, and acts of god, age, or some other reason caused the land and pipes to subside. I wouldn’t think the cause would be due to poor workmanship, as the infrastructure has lasted this long.

The developer is a businessman, not a reinsurer or benevolent deity. Doesn’t matter if he’s rich rich. At what point would one expect him to be done with a project and move on? I don’t know that he has a “dog in this fight”.

Insurance, if purchased, would cover the damage to the home and remediation to the property. If no insurance was purchased, that is a harsh and expensive lesson to both the current and future homeowners. The county or CDD (whoever is in charge of the streets/sewer system) would be in charge of those items.

Yes, I feel bad for the homeowners in the area, and something must be done. What? I don’t know. But I don’t know any reason that the developer would get involved.

[Velvet]

Has an assessment of the construction underground been made? Other then the degree of density built on the land in TV and the weight of these houses might be also looked at. There are many possible contributing factors and each one will be assigned a probability. Just like in a car accident. But there is always new literature, new analysis the findings of which are determined by who paid for them. I think those things are holding up the resolution, plus the fact that no one wants to pay for it.

Reminds me of the people who built on the land by the Kilauea volcano that erupted in Hawaii. They knew it is the most active volcano but it is in such a beautiful place. They took a chance and whole towns were destroyed last year. This year they are building in the same place again, no insurer offers property insurance... I guess when you buy where you know is the center of sink hole activity in Florida then ....

My beef is also with letting the sales people off for not declaring the chances of sinkhole in TV as many people come here who have not even heard about such things, as for example, my relatives.

[DAVES]

A sinkhole in or near our property could happen to anyone of us living here in The Villages or,elsewhere in Florida. The problem, as I see it, lies in Tallahassee. Our representatives have let us down when it comes to this issue. You are never going to get them”insurance industry” to properly provide the type of insurance needed to handle this problem. A self insured fund needs to be setup to handle the cost of fixing such sinkhole problems. Like the OP, I think it’s a disgrace what has happen to our neighbors and friends in the north end of The Villages.

As to sinkhole insurance, you can purchase and pay for it.

As to sinkhole risk. I'm no expert but I've wondered how quickly they can possibly develop. I assume in most cases we do not even know it is a risk in that spot. Seems to me ground penetrating radar and or some of the techniques used to locate oil etc could find it long before a sink hole says you shoulda coulda mighta.

I recall when we bought our place the Villages sales person asked us if we were interested in another new place where they had restored a sink hole. Apparently they must tell you. If, I recall it was like 10% less.

[Velvet]

No, they don’t have to tell you and they don’t. The only exception is by Florida law you must declare a sinkhole that was repaired on a property or an adjacent property and that’s what you got. I think it is unbelievable that people who don’t know anything about sinkholes are sold homes without ANY warning. I only learned about it accidentally. There was a house on Hacienda golf course the bank was selling as a foreclosure, and even though there had been no sinkholes around that area the bank HAD to declare on the form they must fill out that it is a hazard in the area. That form was what alerted me to look into sinkholes in Florida for the first time.

[sail33or]

The problem is that this is "NOT" a sinkhole.

The collapse is around the street collection drain.

Water was running UNDER the street and driveway instead of on top.

Please quit saying it is a SINKHOLE.

So this is a finger pointing assignment of blame situation. The Developer hired the Contractor. The Developer builds on SAND. I agree the Developer is clear, not NOW responsible and has moved on to other sand.

But, I assure you the Developer has a huge interest in this NOT escalating. If it were in the News more, it would cause all buyers to consider other communities.

[tophcfa]

The problem is that this is "NOT" a sinkhole.

The collapse is around the street collection drain.

Water was running UNDER the street and driveway instead of on top.

Please quit saying it is a SINKHOLE.

So this is a finger pointing assignment of blame situation. The Developer hired the Contractor. The Developer builds on SAND. I agree the Developer is clear, not NOW responsible and has moved on to other sand.

But, I assure you the Developer has a huge interest in this NOT escalating. If it were in the News more, it would cause all buyers to consider other communities.

I recently spoke to a golf ambassador at Lopez and asked him if the 9 holes that are currently closed is due to course renovations. He said "no, the 9 holes are closed because of another issue". I said, "are you referring to the sinkholes that opened up in that area"? He said, "we have been instructed to not refer to them as what you called them, we refer to them as depressions"! So employees of the Villages have been instructed to not say the "S" word, but rather call them depressions.

I would submit that the sinkholes are not depressions, but that they do indeed cause depression for the unlucky Villagers who own homes near the sinkholes!

[Velvet]

I love it! We just redefine the definition of a sink hole and by golly we don’t have any... anywhere.