I had this thought today. I'd like your opinions on it

[Talk Host]

My wife an I have the good fortune of being able to travel a lot.

We were in Sweden and Denmark recently. In addition to their native language, nearly everybody we met also spoke English and Spanish (perfectly). All of the menus were in both languages.

Over the past couple of years, we have driven through most of the western and eastern European countries. In Germany, Austria, Poland, Slovakia, The Czech Republic, Russia and Holland, everybody spoke their native language, plus many spoke English, French, Russian an others. We did a boat tour of the waterways in Vienna and our young tour guide spoke English, German, Italian Spanish and French. Most menus offered not only native language but also English

In Brazil, where Portuguese is the native language, nearly everybody also spoke English and Spanish.

In Canada, there are two languages, French and English.

Here in this county, everybody has their fur up because Spanish is becoming a second language. You know, the old, "By God were Americans and we talk American." Why are we so against the wonderful opportunity to learn a second language and have it be part of our culture. Realistically, we are never going to turn the tide, so shouldn't we flow with it?

It doesn't seem to any problem at all in most other countries.

[wmchale]

I thought you were the english major!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[swrinfla]

Jan:

Europeans have always been multilingual. Partly because the next country speaks a different language, and it would be handy to know that language.

It's as though the folks in Georgia spoke a totally different tongue than folks in Florida. Despite the fact that a whole bunch of Floridians would say, "Why can't they learn our language," a large number would say, "Best we learn how to speak Georgian, so we can get along together!"

That's the way the Europeans think.

Unfortunately, most Americans think that the rest of the world must live by OUR standards! So, we have folks at cross purposes across the board.

Bottom line: I blame our own educational system, wherein the teaching of a foreign language is almost anti-U.S!

I'll get off my soapbox, now!

SWR
:beer3:

[saratogaman]

My wife an I have the good fortune of being able to travel a lot.

We were in Sweden and Denmark recently. In addition to their native language, nearly everybody we met also spoke English and Spanish (perfectly). All of the menus were in both languages.

Over the past couple of years, we have driven through most of the western and eastern European countries. In Germany, Austria, Poland, Slovakia, The Czech Republic, Russia and Holland, everybody spoke their native language, plus many spoke English, French, Russian an others. We did a boat tour of the waterways in Vienna and our young tour guide spoke English, German, Italian Spanish and French. Most menus offered not only native language but also English

In Brazil, where Portuguese is the native language, nearly everybody also spoke English and Spanish.

In Canada, there are two languages, French and English.

Here in this county, everybody has their fur up because Spanish is becoming a second language. You know, the old, "By God were Americans and we talk American." Why are we so against the wonderful opportunity to learn a second language and have it be part of our culture. Realistically, we are never going to turn the tide, so shouldn't we flow with it?

It doesn't seem to any problem at all in most other countries.

Some people have a difficult time dealing with change and pluralism. The demographics in the USA are changing -- as they continually have since the white man first took the land away from the Indians. From "Irish need not apply" to Jim Crow laws to the anti-Hispanic "English should be our official language" sentiments, sadly there will always be a vociferous bunch of folks who put down the looks/culture/language of the more recent arrivals. It's unfortunate and, in my view, pathetic. It's interesting talking to my grandchildren...they could care less about it...they are already dealing with a slew of non-white classmates who speak many languages and they enjoy learning about their cultures and languages...and learning those languages! Best of all, they all love soccer -- a true international, intercultural sport.
I'm not worried about resistance to change -- those folks who get their fur up, as you said. Sad for them to not learn and embrace variety. The anti-generation will pass and the USA melting pot will continue to make us great and even more innovative.

[gary42651]

My wife is from Russia, and she is a nurse at a local hospital, just last night as she was about to end her shift, she was rushed to the emergency room, a patient had just arrived who was dying because the batteries in her pas maker failed. The patient is from Russia and lived in the USA for over 15 years, and could not speak a word of english. This poor lady was very scared and confused, my wife was able to calm her down, and translate everything the doctor had to do to save her life. This has happen several times in the past, and is one reason why I feel its important that if you want to live in this country, you should learn basic english.

[BogeyBoy]

I wrote a long reply and deleted it - instead I'll just point out that the countries TH mentioned all were multilingual. I thing a big part of what gets people riled up is that we are making it very easy for people to not become multilingual.

[Talk Host]

My Grandmother and Grandfather from Czechoslovakia lived here for 40 years. Neither could speak much English when they died. But their children, my father and his six brothers and sisters, went to US school and learned English.

I think it's the same thing with the Mexican people.

[saratogaman]

Amen!

[Ohiogirl]

European countries are so much smaller, it is so much easier to travel to different countries. IMO, that is one reason why Americans don't speak another language. How many of us took French, German or Spanish in high school and how many of us have had the chance to travel to a country where French, German, or Spanish is the native language? Europeans get many more opportunities to do this.

Canadians, unless they live in one of the predominantly French speaking provinces, or maybe in Ottawa, the capital, aren't usually multilingual, at least to my knowledge. Canadians - please inform us about this and correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe the native French speaking ones are more multi-lingual than the native English speakers?

I do think Americans don't generally go out of their way to learn languages like Europeans do, but I think it's mainly because of geography. That's just my impression - I could be wrong.

[getdul981]

When my wife and I travel to a foreign country, we at least TRY to learn some of the phrases to help us get by. What gets me is all the people that come her and think we have to change to accommodate them. If they don't like it here the way we've been for centuries, then they can go back to where things are as they like them. This includes learning English. If I moved to another country, I would not expect everyone to change to English just to suit me, but I would learn the language. It would be rough, but that's just me.

[Pturner]

This reminds me of an old joke.

Q: What do you call a person who speaks three languages?
A: Trilingual

Q: What do you call a person who speaks two languages?
A: Bilingual

Q: What do you call a person who speaks one language?
A: American

[Pturner]

When my wife and I travel to a foreign country, we at least TRY to learn some of the phrases to help us get by. What gets me is all the people that come her and think we have to change to accommodate them. If they don't like it here the way we've been for centuries, then they can go back to where things are as they like them. This includes learning English. If I moved to another country, I would not expect everyone to change to English just to suit me, but I would learn the language. It would be rough, but that's just me.

Hi Getdul,
I suspect most of the people who come here, whether from Mexico, Czechoslovakia or whereever, do learn some of the phrases to help them get by.

I have read that it is much easier for children to learn foreign languages than it is for adults. That could be why, as TH suggested, first gen. adult immigrants oft-times don't learn the language well, but their children do. Just a thought.

[l2ridehd]

TH, you are so right about European countries. Everyone speaks multiple languages. However every country also has their national language. And I know of no country where I have ever head on a phone, press one for X, press two for Y. And everything in a country is printed in only their national language. I am very much in agreement that we need to be more multi lingual in this country. When I speak to college students I always tell them, learn another language or more. Learn Spanish and Mandarin and you can speak to 2/3 of the world.

I hope we become a multi lingual country. I am even OK with Spanish. But keep English as our national language and don't print everything in both. Let it happen as it has in Europe, DON'T legislate it as we are trying to do here and force it on people.

[SALYBOW]

As an ex-educator I would like to chime in here. I think that our American hubris has kept us from learning other languages and from seeing the wisdom behind doing so. I hosted young students from Brazil and Germeny who spent a schoolyear here to perfect their English.
It is believed that the window for learning a language easily is around 5 years of age. Sadly we miss that window in most cases. I would love to learn other languages.
The best way to learn a language is not how we were taught in HS. It is through emersion in the culture. On the first day of German classes my son came home singing German drinking songs. Somehow, after that, German came very easy for him. He went on to major in Germanic Studies in college. Now he is working among the Puerto Ricans in Chicage and he can also spek the PR form of spanish. Ithink if the kids hear the language spoken, they will learn it better. Sally

[wmchale]

We speak English but how many different dialets do we have and how long before each becomes a language.

You'all

you ruin my mummaj!

[swrinfla]

I offer an anecdote on how children learn so well.

Eons and eons ago, in college, my roommate and I lived with a French-Canadian family in Maine. Tho' Canadians by birth, they had both been brought up by Parisian-born parents, so their French was impeccable.

They had a four- or five-year-old daughter, who was picking up English in the local kindergarten, but had to speak French at home. One day, my roommate (who turned out to be a really very good linguist, becoming fluent in at least a half-dozen tongues) casually made some remark in French to the child. She immediately corrected his grammar, doing so in perfect English! He was floored, went and researched her correction and found that she was absolutely right!

SWR
:beer3:

[TrudyM]

I have always accepted that many people in this country only speak Spanish. My Hawaiian hubby has a very different reaction. In Hawaii many speak another language. Japanese, Chinese, tagalo, Korean, etc, allot of kids go to language school after regular school every day; it is the Hawaiian version of extended care for working parents. But all residents speak English. It is not the Spanish being added that drives him nuts, it is the Spanish being substituted. When his grandparents and great grandparents came to Hawaii they learned English. His reaction is if a person wants to live and work in this country they should be encouraged to learn the main language spoken. He also feels that doing the duel language thing like they are in California where the kids can go school totally taught in Spanish is creating a two class society that locks the Spanish speaking immigrants into a permant second class. Also the assumption that spanish is the only other language spoken is also wrong. Here in the Pacific Northwest the largest new to english speaking population is chinese. Where I grew up in northern new england it was French.
What bothers me is people sitting next to you on the bus or in line that switch to another language. It feels like you are being talked about infront of your back.

[Yoda]

My wife an I have the good fortune of being able to travel a lot.

We were in Sweden and Denmark recently. In addition to their native language, nearly everybody we met also spoke English and Spanish (perfectly). All of the menus were in both languages.

Over the past couple of years, we have driven through most of the western and eastern European countries. In Germany, Austria, Poland, Slovakia, The Czech Republic, Russia and Holland, everybody spoke their native language, plus many spoke English, French, Russian an others. We did a boat tour of the waterways in Vienna and our young tour guide spoke English, German, Italian Spanish and French. Most menus offered not only native language but also English

In Brazil, where Portuguese is the native language, nearly everybody also spoke English and Spanish.

In Canada, there are two languages, French and English.

Here in this county, everybody has their fur up because Spanish is becoming a second language. You know, the old, "By God were Americans and we talk American." Why are we so against the wonderful opportunity to learn a second language and have it be part of our culture. Realistically, we are never going to turn the tide, so shouldn't we flow with it?

It doesn't seem to any problem at all in most other countries.

I pasted this from my word processor. No copyrights are involved. Do not delete.

Ok, now that I have read them all, let me be the bad guy.

You tout the multi-lingual abilities of other countries as though we are behind the times and some how inferior. You must have missed this, " everybody spoke their native language." We as a nation do speak other languages. Like Europe, we are able as our needs require. One thing that you forget is that most European countries are bordered by three or more countries who speak a different "native" language. Thus a need. Most of our states are bordered by English speaking neighbor states. Thus, less need. Remember that many of our states dwarf the size of many of Europe's countries. English is the language of business. It has been for decades and will be for a generation forward, at least. So, yes, European countries speak more languages than we. They have more need.

Why in the world would you use Canada as an example. It is well known that the French Canadians are a most language bigoted people.

There are at last count 117 languages spoken or read in the United States. Which ones would you suggest that we learn and or discriminate against?

If you were recommending to a grandchild, which language would you suggest that they study, for other than tourism that is?

I am all for learning other languages. I do ok with tourist Spanish. I like to travle S. America and the Caribbean. I am working on tourist level German.

I would not judge Americans for not knowing what they have no need to know. People are so fast to do that.

I will say this; If I were going to live in another country I would be sure to learn the language of my new home and I wouldn't think of criticizing me if I did not do so.

Just some thoughts on the subject.

Yoda

I pasted this from my word processor. No copyrights are involved. Do not delete.

[JimJoe]

Your point was what? Americans are ????
Your post pointed out that people spoke the native language and a second language in the places you visited. I have no problem with that.
But I do have a problem illegals flooding into the USA and then having progressives tell us it is our responsibility to learn a second language so they can feel welcome here.

[Talk Host]

I pasted this from my word processor. No copyrights are involved. Do not delete.

Ok, now that I have read them all, let me be the bad guy.

You tout the multi-lingual abilities of other countries as though we are behind the times and some how inferior. You must have missed this, " everybody spoke their native language." We as a nation do speak other languages. Like Europe, we are able as our needs require. One thing that you forget is that most European countries are bordered by three or more countries who speak a different "native" language. Thus a need. Most of our states are bordered by English speaking neighbor states. Thus, less need. Remember that many of our states dwarf the size of many of Europe's countries. English is the language of business. It has been for decades and will be for a generation forward, at least. So, yes, European countries speak more languages than we. They have more need.

Why in the world would you use Canada as an example. It is well known that the French Canadians are a most language bigoted people.

There are at last count 117 languages spoken or read in the United States. Which ones would you suggest that we learn and or discriminate against?

If you were recommending to a grandchild, which language would you suggest that they study, for other than tourism that is?

I am all for learning other languages. I do ok with tourist Spanish. I like to travle S. America and the Caribbean. I am working on tourist level German.

I would not judge Americans for not knowing what they have no need to know. People are so fast to do that.

I will say this; If I were going to live in another country I would be sure to learn the language of my new home and I wouldn't think of criticizing me if I did not do so.

Just some thoughts on the subject.

Yoda

I pasted this from my word processor. No copyrights are involved. Do not delete.

Why do you think this would be deleted. I started the conversation and asked for opinions. I'm not going to edit out the ones that disagree with me and actually, I resent the implication that I might.

JLK

[Yoda]

Why do you think this would be deleted. I started the conversation and asked for opinions. I'm not going to edit out the ones that disagree with me and actually, I resent the implication that I might.

JLK

I had something deleted in the past because it was Cut and paste. Just wanted to be sure

[RichieLion]

My wife an I have the good fortune of being able to travel a lot.

We were in Sweden and Denmark recently. In addition to their native language, nearly everybody we met also spoke English and Spanish (perfectly). All of the menus were in both languages.

Over the past couple of years, we have driven through most of the western and eastern European countries. In Germany, Austria, Poland, Slovakia, The Czech Republic, Russia and Holland, everybody spoke their native language, plus many spoke English, French, Russian an others. We did a boat tour of the waterways in Vienna and our young tour guide spoke English, German, Italian Spanish and French. Most menus offered not only native language but also English

In Brazil, where Portuguese is the native language, nearly everybody also spoke English and Spanish.

In Canada, there are two languages, French and English.

Here in this county, everybody has their fur up because Spanish is becoming a second language. You know, the old, "By God were Americans and we talk American." Why are we so against the wonderful opportunity to learn a second language and have it be part of our culture. Realistically, we are never going to turn the tide, so shouldn't we flow with it?

It doesn't seem to any problem at all in most other countries.

OK; you make a point with the speaking of more than one language and I don't think most Americans would have much of a problem with that.

But in these other countries that you have traveled to do they print all government forms in multiple languages?

Do the telephone operators give you instructions in multiple languages?

They may include English in many venues, but you know, as well as I, that English is the de-facto language of business in the world.

[getdul981]

Do the telephone operators give you instructions in multiple languages?



And when you have a choice, is your native language not "Press 1 for English" instead of "Press 1 for Spanish"

[Pturner]

OK; you make a point with the speaking of more than one language and I don't think most Americans would have much of a problem with that.

But in these other countries that you have traveled to do they print all government forms in multiple languages?

Do the telephone operators give you instructions in multiple languages?

They may include English in many venues, but you know, as well as I, that English is the de-facto language of business in the world.

I suppose that when enterprises program their phones so that you press a number to hear instructions in different languages, they consider it a good business practice. Do you feel that the government should forbid private enterprises from doing this?

[superuke]

When you have two languages as in Canada, as a manufacturer you are required to print all labels, brochures, advertising, instructions in both languages. So simply put, you order you pay. The costs are not absorbed by some magic formula, they are passed on to the consumer. So add a few points to the price.

The americian formula is "keep the costs down" a great formula and framework for enjoying the lowest prices. That is why us Canadians like shopping " guess where" in the USA. I really like lower prices!

In Quebec all people speak French, about 70% of the Quebec speak English and understand English. I have worked all parts of Quebec and have not had problems comunicating in English. Sometimes I have had to get help in the transulation.

The rest of Canada; New Brunswick is mostly a two language province.
Ottawa region: about 50% of the population speak two languages.

Pockets of the rest of Canada: Several languages are common, however in these cases, the majority speak English.

[JUREK]

Your point was what? Americans are ????
Your post pointed out that people spoke the native language and a second language in the places you visited. I have no problem with that.
But I do have a problem illegals flooding into the USA and then having progressives tell us it is our responsibility to learn a second language so they can feel welcome here.

You said it all.:thumbup::thumbup:

[k2at]

I do not think anyone in this country would object to people coming here and speaking their native language UNTIL THEY HAVE HAD TIME TO BECOME ASSIMILATED AND HAVE LEARNED ENGLISH. The problem is that they are coming here and refuse to learn our language. If this is the case, we ought to turn them around and send them back to their native country as they don't wish to become part of our dynamic.

[TrudyM]

I do not think anyone in this country would object to people coming here and speaking their native language UNTIL THEY HAVE HAD TIME TO BECOME ASSIMILATED AND HAVE LEARNED ENGLISH. The problem is that they are coming here and refuse to learn our language. If this is the case, we ought to turn them around and send them back to their native country as they don't wish to become part of our dynamic.

IMHO I think not encouraging those coming here (legally I hope) to learn english is doing them a disservice. It locks them into second class status. I remember the mother of one of my sons classmates saying when we lived in California,"Oh the kids need spanish not french, I mean they need to be able to talk to the maids and yardmen."
My husbands reaction is you don't hear press 3 for Japanese. 20% of my town is now Chinese mostly emigrants over the last 10 years and they are all learning english, there are organized english classes at a local church.

[Talk Host]

After thinking about it more. I agree with most of everything that everybody said.

[k2at]

Talk Host, u shud be a politician.

[Yorio]

I think the more one can converse in more languages the merrier. I envied the Dutch who can speak about 5 languages fluently. I realize this was done out of necessity. However, I don't think we would want to end up like Quebec where two languages I believe are mandated. Or, like the United Nations where there are too many OFFICIAL languages to abide by. This is America and the language is American English though I may spell theater, theatre sometimes.

[billmar]

I wrote a long reply and deleted it - instead I'll just point out that the countries TH mentioned all were multilingual. I thing a big part of what gets people riled up is that we are making it very easy for people to not become multilingual.

I did the same, so I'll just say instead... Good Point!!:thumbup:

[CMANN]

Everybody seems to think that European nations who speak several languages are so much greater than we are.

I am from Massachusetts. I assure you that if Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New York all spoke different languages that I would speak those languages also besides my native Massachusetts language.

Speaking languages is no biggie. Speaking different languages depends on necessity and nothing more.

[mrfixit]

I learned a Long time ago to Press 2 for Spanish when calling Corporate 1-800 numbers.. The Spanish speaking employee has ALWAYS spoken nearly perfect English. I just start speaking English when they answer .....Viola'....I do not have to to wait for 10 minutes like when I press 1 for english. Nobody who speaks Spanish is going to say......" hey DUMBA$$-----Ya Pressed the WRONG number"..( they are always very kind to this feeble old man )..SO FAR ...SO GOOD.....never waited on line and ALWAYS got a bi-lingual employee. Is that gonna get me sent to the NAUGHTY table again? Hope so.... I met MOST of my childhood friends at the Naughty table in Grade School. Some of whom (still are friends) turned out to be Corporate Titans..... ME... NOT SO MUCH...

[Skybo]

I learned a Long time ago to Press 2 for Spanish when calling Corporate 1-800 numbers.. The Spanish speaking employee has ALWAYS spoken nearly perfect English..

LOL - I do the same thing! My friends don't believe me, but Press 2 for Spanish and you'll be more likely to get someone who speaks English, than if you Press 1 for English. Crazy world.

[mrfixit]

My grandkids now are going to learn Mandarin in Grade School. Anybody have ANY idea why they would want to teach that?? When i looked it up on "Headmasteronline" it said something about jobs -BUT---I don't get it..they are just little shavers..sure don't need no darn jobs. Besides, they already speak English and Spanish. Ain't that enough ??? I heard that Mandarin is what Chinese people speak..is that true.???

[2BNTV]

My growing up experience has been both my mother and father were born in Europe. When they came to the USA, they did not speak a word of English. They embraced the American way of life and learned to speak English fluently. I grew up in a neighborhood that had a lot of immigrants; they made friends with other people who spoke my parents native tongue and English to help integrate them to America. Some took jobs with others to translate for them the instructions they received needed to do their jobs.

Some people ask me if I ever learned to speak my parents native languages and I say no because they were speaking fluent English before I was born.

IMHO - If I were to go to live in another country, I would learn that language and not expect others to conform to my native tongue so it is easier to do what I needed to do.

[Bogie Shooter]

Most of us can remember when we had the option of several languages other than English when in school.
The masses are not willing to pay for this in our school systems any longer. So, it like physical education, more sciences, and languages have been dropped.
So sad.
(sorry if this was mentioned earlier....I did not read all 37 posts)

[cybermuda]

If your first language is French, what is your best choice for your second language? Most likely English, as it is the language of business and trade and is spoken by more people (first or second language) than any other.

Likewise if your first language is Spanish, or German, or Italian.

But if your first language is English, what do you choose as your second language? Nothing you choose will be as useful to you as choosing English is for those people for whom English is not their first language.

So we choose nothing.

Well, that's my excuse :-)

[The Great Fumar]

I wasn't going to comment on this but so far no one has hit the target which is, why do you think airline capt's ,maritime skippers, cosmonauts and exchange students (for the most part) speak English.......Its because several years ago as the earth was getting smaller the United Nations ,and many other world industrial organizations decided to pick one international language for ease of communication with one another.......English was already spoken by 3/4 of the world so it was a natural pick....Now all international schools teach English as a second language and we have dropped the demand for a second language here.....
That is why the majority of the foreign golfers when interviewed speak beautiful english........having said that , If your kids are going after an MBA they might consider taking Mandarin as a business language........

Personally, I have a Masters in Pig Laten...

umarfa.............:read:

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Further to cybermuda and Fumar's points:

In one of my "past lives", I worked (in the U.S.) for a division of company that was headquartered in France. The organization had a presence throughout Europe, primarily, as well as in the Americas. Whenever there was a business meeting that involved those from any one of a number of places around the globe, guess what the dictated language of use was? English. Everyone in the entire company was expected to speak it fluently.....and everyone I ever came in contact with in the company absolutely did.

Bill :)

[suzannebpayne]

Further to cybermuda and Fumar's points:

In one of my "past lives", I worked (in the U.S.) for a division of company that was headquartered in France. The organization had a presence throughout Europe, primarily, as well as in the Americas. Whenever there was a business meeting that involved those from any one of a number of places around the globe, guess what the dictated language of use was? English. Everyone in the entire company was expected to speak it fluently.....and everyone I ever came in contact with in the company absolutely did.

Bill :)
My opinion, everyone should learn to speak English if they want to become citizens of the US. It is essential if they are to succeed here. Anyway, it costs our government more money to have everything in 2 languages.

[Schaumburger]

For the past 8 yrs. during the school year, I have been a volunteer tutor at an English as a Second Language class that is sponsored by one of the high school districts in the N.W. suburbs of Chicago. The students come from all over eastern Europe, Asia and Latin America and range in age from early 20's to 60+. I have a lot of admiration for these folks who are trying to learn (or improve) speaking the English language as an adult, especially since a lot of these people have already worked a full day by the time class starts at 7:00 p.m. I've heard the stories of some of the students, especially the ones from China and the older students who lived in eastern Europe while the communists were still in power, that make me very appreciative of being born and raised in the U.S. with all of the freedom we enjoy.

[robertj1954]

I am all for speaking Spanish as a second language, but I still maintain, those wishing to immigrate into the American culture as citizens, it is their responsibility to learn the language. I am against the spending of public funds to create two languages in America. The money could be put to better use like teaching them how to read and speak english.

[cybermuda]

The Swiss have four languages - French, Swiss-German, Italian and Romansh

And the official language of the Swiss army?

English!


Not sure what my point is here, but it would certainly be cheaper if the UN adopted English as its sole language and did away with the hundreds of translators (same with the EU)

[DDoug]

English is also the spoken word for airplane pilots through out the world