Cautionary Notes for Anyone Buying a Home in TV

[Hifred]

Retirement day came, we sold our home, packed up a POD which is now in storage and headed toward the Villages. We are renting and have been looking at homes. While renting we have enjoyed all the activities which are great and met lots of wonderful people. We entered into a sales agreement on a preowned home. I have a cautionary note from my experience that I would like to share with anyone who has not had the experience of purchasing a preowned home in the Villages.

Caution 1 – When you are seriously looking to purchase, ask your sales agent for a copy of the sales agreement and sit down with an attorney and see if the terms of the contract are agreeable. What I learned from a manager at TV only after we signed a sales contract is that on pre-owned home sales contracts the terms of the contract are all negotiable. What I found was although our agent was friendly and personable he did not represent our best interest. When we went to buy a pre-owned home I wanted a 15 day inspection period. He said that in TV they do a 10 day inspection period. Because of the large amount of home sales in TV it is hard to get one of the 3 top home inspectors Harwood, DeAngelo or Comer within that time period. There are other home inspectors and The Villages provides a list of home inspectors you can use. However, our experience was problematic. We hired a recommended home inspector; he agreed to meet us on site with our agent who was to open the home. He did his inspection and provided a very limited report but rather then send it directly to me he sent it to the Villages POH which in turn puts the report in a file that can be viewed by the seller’s agent and made it available to the seller which is detrimental to our bargaining process because his recommendations were very limited. My agent then sent me the report. So the report was viewable to others before I had the opportunity to review and approve its disclosure to the sellers. This way of operating seems to be an ethical violation at the least because I am the client and I am the one paying for the report. If you engage a home inspector make sure it is agreed to and understood that the report should go directly to you to review and approve before it is sent to the Villages POH and is visible to the sellers and their agent. I did speak to a sales manager about their process and she said that this procedure is in place to protect the buyer because there time line is tight (10 days) and if the report is not turned over quickly (within 10 days) then the buyers might lose their opportunity to have the action items fixed at all. I did hire another inspector (not one on TV’s list) who found a second crack in the foundation. The recommended inspector identified one crack in the foundation.

Caution 2

TV Sales Agreement states the seller is responsible to fix structural issues (up to 1.5% of the purchase cost) but not cosmetic issues. The Villages contract defines cosmetic conditions differently than I would. But they spell out their definition to mean items that do not affect the working condition which includes by their wording in the contract fogged windows, including windows with broken seals, caulking, improperly working sprinkler heads, minor cracks in walls, driveways, sidewalks, pools decks, garage and patio floors, cracked roof tile, curling or worn shingles, torn or missing screens in windows, pools, patio or garage screens. To me screens have a function and impact the use of house but they don’t see it that way. If you are buying a pre-owned home you can amend this however, your sales agent may discourage you from doing so. Ours did to the point that we thought it wasn’t allowed but the sales manager said on a pre-owned home any terms agreed to on the contract are between the buyer and the seller. So had I not spoke to the manager I would never have realized adjustments can be made to the sales agreement.

Caution 3

When you look at a home, you will not have an inspection report with you. Make a list and try to check for cosmetic conditions before you make an offer. We made an offer predicated on thinking that items in the inspection report would be fixed by the seller and as such made a higher offer than we would have had we understood this concept. But given the standard Villages sales agreement those things are not required to be fixed. If you look at a home with an agent for a few minutes, like it and then make an offer without examining caulking, screens, windows, cracks, over hanging branches then you may be offering more than you should because after purchase you will likely want to fix those items. This is especially true if you are a cash buyer because when financing lenders may not provide the mortgage if certain repairs are not made. The way TV sales agreements are written the buyer is at a disadvantage because once you write your offer the negotiating aspect after the sales agreement is accepted is practically gone. I say practically because the seller does have an obligation to fix up to 1.5% of the sales cost of structural items. If the value of the repairs exceeds 1.5% then there can be further negotiations.

I hope this will help anyone who is considering purchasing a pre-owned home in the Villages.

[dewilson58]

Hope the items end up being minor and you can enjoy The Villages and your retirement.


I would say, any and all negotiations should happen before signing, after "they" have all the leverage.




Hopefully the bad taste in your mouth will go away.


:welcome: to TV.

[JSR22]

My BIL closed on a pre-owned home that was an MLS yesterday. His experience was completely opposite The realtors are sisters and were outstanding. They did recommend the inspector and my BIL received a detailed 38 page report on a 2/2 cottage. We were there with the realtors during the inspection. The realtors negotiated an outstanding price for all the furniture and a gas golf cart. The realtors listened to what he wanted and they found it! If anyone would like their contact inf send me a message.

[stvaughn]

Please tell me who the realtor was, I’m looking for a good MLS realtor.

[mtdjed]

While not in the market, thanks for the reminder. Typically, the seller knows all of the homes deficiencies, AC inadequate, wiring quirks, small window leaks, etc. That is why, most often, they are not there during showings. Your questions to realtors can seldom bring out these facts.


Reminds me of our home inspector findings on our new home from TV. Not to bore readers, but he found that the garage door horizontal supports were rusted on the bottom only. Only visible from the outside when the door was open. When I discussed this with the builders rep, I asked why they would install these on a new house. His comment was that the building schedule would not allow ordering replacements and delaying the building schedule. The items were replaced only after brought to their attention via TV warranty period. There were several other defects that were found, only after time spent in the house. Same reason, they do not inspect and thus you must. And this on new homes. Would expect similar on resales.

[JSR22]

Teena Levy 352 430-9020. Her sister Karren works with her. They were absolutely amazing. They truly represented the buyer.

[manaboutown]

Are the Villages agents allowed to act as buyers' agents as are Realtors? Whenever I engage a Realtor for a purchase I always have a signed buyer's agent contract with them prior to using them. Most of the time they will want an exclusive agreement. Otherwise, as most of us realize, agents are sellers' agents.

IMHO purchase forms are merely forms. I never hesitate to modify them however I choose when I write up an offer. I do realize when purchasing a new home in TV that is likely impossible as it is a "take it or leave it" situation.

[l2ridehd]

As stated by manaboutown almost all real estate agents work for the seller unless a signed agreement for them to act as a buyers agent is in place. This includes villages and MLS agents. You have to treat them as an arms length agent. Technically they can't lie to you, but they can sure avoid the truth by not offering up pertinent information.

Because they work for the seller it is incumbent on you to ask all questions, due complete inspections, get everything in writing and NEVER disclose your true intentions with an offer. And no matter what they say, everything is negotiable.

If for example you offer 300K for a 325K home, but tell the agent that if they refuse you will go as high as 315K, that agent is bound by law to disclose that information to the seller. So the counter would probably be 320K.

I usually go way in the other direction by telling the agent that the 300K is my best and final and that I have another home that I am considering with another agent that I will make an offer on if this seller doesn't accept. I want that agent and seller to firmly believe that they will lose me as a buyer if my offer is not accepted. Does not mean that I may move some, but they have to believe I wont. In fact I want that agent to believe he will lose a commission if he can't convince the seller to accept my offer.

That strategy has got me some deep discounts over the years and I only lost one purchase because of using it. It does work better in a slow market than a very hot market, but it does work.

[John_W]

What I found was although our agent was friendly and personable he did not represent our best interest.

I became a licensed Realtor in Florida in 1989 and in Georgia in 1984 when I was publishing Homes & Land of Savannah Magazine. That is the normal operating practice of an MLS agent, you represent the seller. In many cases the agent is the listing agent as well, and even if not, he is representing the listing agent. So it seems TV sales people are using the same rule.

Just remember, anything you say in front of the MLS Realtor or Villages salesman can and should be relayed to the seller. So if you're talking to your spouse or even the agent and say something like;

"I don't want to pay $400,000 for that house, but I will if I have to, for now let's offer $350,000 and see what they say".

A good agent will tell the buyer or the listing agent exactly what they heard. It is standard practice of a licensed Realtor, the word Realtor is only those who are licensed and are members of the Board of Realtors. Villages Sales Agents are not licensed and can act pretty much like a car salesman, they are working for the dealer or the developer in our case.

[Chatbrat]

Never ever use a home inspector recommended by a realtor--get an inspector that is totally independent, the same goes for a marine surveyor when buying a boat

[drpepper]

Always have your inspector pull all old permits and arc requests. We found problems that made the property out of compliance and had the seller correct them before the closing otherwise we would have been on the hook.

[JSR22]

Always have your inspector pull all old permits and arc requests. We found problems that made the property out of compliance and had the seller correct them before the closing otherwise we would have been on the hook.

The inspector my BIL used did pull all of the permits. There were a lot of upgrades and fortunately they were all permitted.

[l2ridehd]

Never ever use a home inspector recommended by a realtor--get an inspector that is totally independent, the same goes for a marine surveyor when buying a boat

Also a good point, but a certified Marine surveyor does have to be independent. However if buying a boat and you know a really good one, they are worth flying them anywhere to do the inspection. I have one I have flown over a thousand miles to do a sailboat survey for me. And it was worth every extra dollar of cost. He surveyed 4 boats for me before he gave me the thumbs up on one.

[kathyspear]

We are in the process of buying our second home in TV (in less than a year ... yeah, I know ... ) The first was an MLS listing and this one is with VLS.

Yes, when you sign a contract to sell through VLS you agree to repair anything that is broken. There is no such agreement in MLS contracts. The benefit of that is you don't have to negotiate about repairs (and houses don't fall out of escrow because the parties can't agree on what the sellers should fix.) The downside (from the buyers' standpoint) is, as you learned, that you have to accept cosmetic issues. Most such things, however, are fairly obvious when you view the home or read the listing.

Which system is better? I think the VLS system is obviously better for sellers (and realtors, who don't make money unless the sale closes). As a buyer, I liked not having to request repairs from the seller. It was just a given that they would be done. We always assume we are going to have to fix/tweak/change/update some things cosmetically in a resale anyway and we take that into consideration when deciding what we want to pay.

BTW, the reason that sellers are encouraged to leave during showings is NOT because they might be too honest/open with potential buyers, as someone suggested. It is because a potential buyer cannot feel comfortable commenting on the house in front of the owners, who are likely to take negative feedback personally.

kathy

[skyking]

I became a licensed Realtor in Florida in 1989 and in Georgia in 1984 when I was publishing Homes & Land of Savannah Magazine. That is the normal operating practice of an MLS agent, you represent the seller. In many cases the agent is the listing agent as well, and even if not, he is representing the listing agent. So it seems TV sales people are using the same rule.

Just remember, anything you say in front of the MLS Realtor or Villages salesman can and should be relayed to the seller. So if you're talking to your spouse or even the agent and say something like;

"I don't want to pay $400,000 for that house, but I will if I have to, for now let's offer $350,000 and see what they say".

A good agent will tell the buyer or the listing agent exactly what they heard. It is standard practice of a licensed Realtor, the word Realtor is only those who are licensed and are members of the Board of Realtors. Villages Sales Agents are not licensed and can act pretty much like a car salesman, they are working for the dealer or the developer in our case.

Incorrect. They are licensed in Florida. They are not members of the real estate board.

[John_W]

Incorrect. They are licensed in Florida. They are not members of the real estate board.

If they are licensed as you say, then that's why they're already acting the same as MLS agents. They are working on behalf of the listing agent or seller and not the buyer. So beware of anything you say in front of your salesman whether he works for an outside broker or The Villages Sales Office.

[valuemkt]

Welcome to the Villages .. and welcome to Florida. Since you sold your home somewhere, this wasn't your first rodeo .. but perhaps only your second. Regardless of whether this really is America's friendliest home town or not.. the norms of BUYER BEWARE still come to play. Without getting into the endlest debate of whether you should pursue homes listed in MLS or VLS, someone new to a state needs to school themself on the standard real estate contracts of their new state. Even though you went through the Villages, some of the things you referenced are part of a standard Florida contract ( the 1.5% you mention). It's several pages long .. and I;ve read it word for word many times .. and asked clarifying questions to understand those points that were different from my previous state (Georgia). The due diligence comment is nonsense . You can ask for any time you want .. It's as negotiable as an earnest money amount. What I don;t understand is why you didnt walk away .. You still had ten days .. you had a sales person tied to the seller and to The Villages real estate. you had issues with the house that the sales rep tried to bully you into accepting ..If it didnt feel good .. WALK !

Your well intentioned advice after the fact can be boiled down into some simple caveats

Don;t sign something you don;t understand
You are responsible for surrounding yourself with people that will work in YOUR best interests
Due diligence means you can walk away for any reason
There are ALWAYS many similar homes for sale in the Villages - wait and you will find one that is better suited for you

Sorry you had a rough beginning .. get over the misery and enjoy the lifestyle that made you move here

[Hifred]

Kathy, I don't understand what you mean by "you agree to repair anything that is broken." Do you mean after the inspection or that the home should be in good condition before you list it. I am not sure what you mean by "anything" I don't understand but would like to know.

[Hifred]

Hi Value Market, I am not sure what you mean when you say we could have walked. Once the sales agreement was signed we could not walk without losing our down payment which was 10%. We had 10 days to get an inspection. We got two because the first inspector we felt did not work on our behalf. After the second inspector there were 2 cracks in the foundation and a number of cosmetic items that the seller did not have to fix. My point is that had we known this information before we put in an offer we would have offered less money than we did. We were not allowed the option to walk because we were under a sales agreement. In Illinois where we are from there is an attorney review period and once the inspection is completed there is a negotiation process between the buyer and the seller to determine who is going to pay for the work that was identified in the inspection report. Florida is very different. That is why I am writing this to help anyone who is coming here and may not understand some of the differences. Since we have been renting every person we have met has been exceptionally kind. I just feel bad that I did not realize that our agent from the Villages was not really representing us. I thought he was "our" agent. But all sales people in the Villages work on behalf of the Villages and do not look out for buyers which is very different from what I know or expected This is an important distinction because you can't count on them to interpret or explain the contract fully and when I asked for different terms my agents response was that is not what we do here. I like the Villages and I want to live here so I took him at his word. It was only after I spoke to the manager later that I learned on pre-owned homes you can change the agreement and he was wrong for example by telling me I could not change 10 days for inspection to 15 days. I agree with you that I was kind of a "dumb ass" about this but I have found this process very stressful. Retiring, selling my home, moving, leaving family and friends, being in a temporary rental have taken a toll on me and my thinking probably wasn't what it should be. But this sales agent fostered a relationship with us and I took him at his word that the contract had to be done the way it was written without being allowed to make changes. My goal in writing this is just to help others. You are right .... it is my fault...I am not trying to say I am a victim but I do want others to get some benefit from my mistakes.

[Velvet]

Thank you for this warning.

When I was looking for a home in TV I wanted a certain resale area and as soon as it was suggested that I look at the new area instead, when I asked about sinkholes and they have never heard of them, the agent lost my confidence .... with MLS as soon as she answered my questions with she didn’t “understand” them, or it was not the right time to ask them, I involved other people. I asked anyone I met; the title company, the bank, future neighbors, TOTV, other real estate people etc for advice. The only person I never asked again about anything, or followed any suggestion they made, was “my” real estate agent.

And you are not dumb, you were not told “the whole truth” and some of us are trusting people and there are individuals who take advantage of that, especially when large amount of money is involved.

[mamamia54]

Thank you for your post. It is very informative and I’m sure will
help many buyers with their process of negotiations, etc.

[Kilmacowen]

Hi Value Market, I am not sure what you mean when you say we could have walked. Once the sales agreement was signed we could not walk without losing our down payment which was 10%. We had 10 days to get an inspection. We got two because the first inspector we felt did not work on our behalf. After the second inspector there were 2 cracks in the foundation and a number of cosmetic items that the seller did not have to fix. My point is that had we known this information before we put in an offer we would have offered less money than we did. We were not allowed the option to walk because we were under a sales agreement. In Illinois where we are from there is an attorney review period and once the inspection is completed there is a negotiation process between the buyer and the seller to determine who is going to pay for the work that was identified in the inspection report. Florida is very different. That is why I am writing this to help anyone who is coming here and may not understand some of the differences. Since we have been renting every person we have met has been exceptionally kind. I just feel bad that I did not realize that our agent from the Villages was not really representing us. I thought he was "our" agent. But all sales people in the Villages work on behalf of the Villages and do not look out for buyers which is very different from what I know or expected This is an important distinction because you can't count on them to interpret or explain the contract fully and when I asked for different terms my agents response was that is not what we do here. I like the Villages and I want to live here so I took him at his word. It was only after I spoke to the manager later that I learned on pre-owned homes you can change the agreement and he was wrong for example by telling me I could not change 10 days for inspection to 15 days. I agree with you that I was kind of a "dumb ass" about this but I have found this process very stressful. Retiring, selling my home, moving, leaving family and friends, being in a temporary rental have taken a toll on me and my thinking probably wasn't what it should be. But this sales agent fostered a relationship with us and I took him at his word that the contract had to be done the way it was written without being allowed to make changes. My goal in writing this is just to help others. You are right .... it is my fault...I am not trying to say I am a victim but I do want others to get some benefit from my mistakes.

Initially you signed a offer, subject to an inspection, to be done in a timely matter. Yes, you could adjust the offer price after the inspection or WALK. An offer is not a legal binding sales agreement. A purchase and sale agreement is legal and binding. This would be done after with your lawyer approval. All agents be it VLS or MLS work for the seller unless you hire your own, this is a disclosure to both parties.

[kathyspear]

Kathy, I don't understand what you mean by "you agree to repair anything that is broken." Do you mean after the inspection or that the home should be in good condition before you list it. I am not sure what you mean by "anything" I don't understand but would like to know.

After our offer was accepted by the sellers we had the property inspected, as most people do. Our realtor told us that anything that the inspector found to be not working would be repaired by the sellers. She said the listing agreement they signed with VLS requires them to do so. They are not required to fix cosmetic issues and obviously buyers and sellers can disagree over what items fall into each category.

It was our experience in other parts of the country that people often used the inspection report to make unreasonable demands on sellers to make "repairs" or to lower the price that had been agreed to by threatening to walk away from the deal. I think The Villages was very smart to write their listing contract in such a way as to limit the possibility of deals falling apart like this. It isn't necessarily in a buyer's best interest but it keeps things on track as far as sales go!

k.

[ohiosbestus]

You are exactly right, the village realtors actually do not represent you when purchasing a home, particularly a resale home. We have had to repair several items that were not found by the home inspector or were told or lied about by the previous owner. We were only given one hour before closing to inspect what the home inspector did find wrong with the home, which ironically was done by the home owner, not a professional. We found out some cosmetic stuff was not even repaired. I believe we could have hired an attorney to have this stuff corrected, but we would have probably spent more money with the attorney than it would be worth. We do like the property and the neighbors though. Also we just found out recently our small lot was just reevaluated and increased 20 per cent from 40,000 to 48,000. Good old Lake County. They are basically robbing us in taxes.

[ohiosbestus]

One ting I would strongly recommend to future buyers is that you should not put hardly any earnest money down, when making an offer, we were later told by our realtor after putting a good amount of earnest money down we could possibly lose it if the home doesnt close by the date for some strange reason, we could possibly lose that money.

[Velvet]

I wrote into the contract that until my home inspector found everything to my satisfaction I would walk away with all moneys up to the day of closing, but I was reasonable in my expectations.... as it was MY offer, and MY money we were talking about; I set the terms. The owner, of course could make their own response and I would consider it. Because my expectations were reasonable the offer went through without modifications.

[jpvillager]

As I understand it the Villages sales agent are not realtors.
When looking at a house take a strong flashlight and take of pictures of everything. Using the flashlight will help you to focus and looking at the pictures afterward helps you to focus and you do it on your own time.
A contract is a contract and sales people are just that, a salesman. Get everything into the contract and if the salesman will not do it, move on.
On a new home, Have the home reinspected by an independent inspector before the warranty expires so you can get repairs made under the warranty.

[retiredguy123]

One ting I would strongly recommend to future buyers is that you should not put hardly any earnest money down, when making an offer, we were later told by our realtor after putting a good amount of earnest money down we could possibly lose it if the home doesnt close by the date for some strange reason, we could possibly lose that money.
I don't know what you mean by "hardly any earnest money". But, as a seller, I wouldn't accept an offer and take my house off the market unless the offer included at least $10,000 in earnest money. The earnest money is put into an escrow account, and it is only forfeited if the buyer violates the sales contract.

[Velvet]

I agree that the earnest money should be somewhat significant... but you can write into the contract under what conditions it needs to be returned to you. The seller will then know you are earnest to buy but you have certain expectations or you walk. It is YOUR offer.

My experience is that the sales agreement used in TV seems quite fair, just check the blanks and fill them in.

[vintageogauge]

They sell 5 or 6 resales per day and I doubt there are more than a handful of complaints per year.

[Brendanyc]

I don't know what you mean by "hardly any earnest money". But, as a seller, I wouldn't accept an offer and take my house off the market unless the offer included at least $10,000 in earnest money. The earnest money is put into an escrow account, and it is only forfeited if the buyer violates the sales contract.

I agree. I am currently selling my home in Hillsborough and unless a buyer was willing to put at least a 10,000 earnest money deposit I would not consider taking it off the market. I come from NYC...at contract we are asked to put a substantial amount down in the event the seller decides to back out.

[Brendanyc]

One ting I would strongly recommend to future buyers is that you should not put hardly any earnest money down, when making an offer, we were later told by our realtor after putting a good amount of earnest money down we could possibly lose it if the home doesnt close by the date for some strange reason, we could possibly lose that money.

Earnest money is returned if the buyer decides during the inspection process that too many things the engineer found need to be fixed and the owner is unwilling to do complete the repairs. That is understandable but from a sellers point of view, I could have a buyer making multiple offers on different homes with little to no earnest money in the absence of a signed contract while inspection is being done. I would not take my home off the market with simply a "binder".

[Velvet]

That makes sense, if the buyer is speculating only with a small amount of money like $100 then why would I as a seller take the house off the market and lose a potential sale to someone else?

[New Englander]

That makes sense, if the buyer is speculating only with a small amount of money like $100 then why would I as a seller take the house off the market and lose a potential sale to someone else?

I wouldn't. My Patio Villa is under contract and buyer had to put down 10K or no deal.

[virgind]

One other thing to remember when buying or selling through the Villages they are out for themselves,meaning the Villages. My personal experience is never ever sell through TV. You will get better results and a better price with an individual real estate company. After all unless its changed and I dont think it has outside realty companies cant bring a buyer to you if you are listed with TV. Nope dont live there anymore moved to South Carolina weather is good and cost of living is tremendously less. Have a good day. God bless the USA

[justjim]

We have purchased and sold over 20 properties. Only Twice we hired a good real estate attorney. On the other hand while purchasing three properties in TV over the last twelve years we did not see a need for an attorney. Sometimes you can get too “technical” and even paranoid when purchasing a home. In The Villages your buying into a lifestyle...

[BobnBev]

One other thing to remember when buying or selling through the Villages they are out for themselves,meaning the Villages. My personal experience is never ever sell through TV. You will get better results and a better price with an individual real estate company. After all unless its changed and I dont think it has outside realty companies cant bring a buyer to you if you are listed with TV. Nope dont live there anymore moved to South Carolina weather is good and cost of living is tremendously less. Have a good day. God bless the USA

Interesting. Tell me more about SC. Are you near any water or the coast? A friend moved to Beaufort, but I lost track of him. I think he's near a Marine base.:coolsmiley:

[Challenger]

We have purchased and sold over 20 properties. Only Twice we hired a good real estate attorney. On the other hand while purchasing three properties in TV over the last twelve years we did not see a need for an attorney. Sometimes you can get too “technical” and even paranoid when purchasing a home. In The Villages your buying into a lifestyle...

Ran three community banks during 42 yr career. Principally involved in financing local homes. Bought and sold 7 homes (2 in TV). Never hired an atty. Always bought Title Insurance. Read the docs. No problems at all.

[bilcon]

When I purchased my 2nd pre-owned home in the Villages, I used my same salesman. He is very honest and has worked for a long time in TV. I used his recommended home inspector and was very impressed with his work and findings. All the small problems he found were fixed. I have been in the home 10 years and have had no problems, and I was still able to negotiate a good price for the home.

[Bay Kid]

That makes sense, if the buyer is speculating only with a small amount of money like $100 then why would I as a seller take the house off the market and lose a potential sale to someone else?

You would put more than $100. down to buy a car. 10K plus deposit.

[brianherlihy]

we have sold in the villages and have used mls and the villages/ we will not use the 1.5 / we were told to put down /$100.00 and it worked out fine:coolsmiley:

[BobnBev]

we have sold in the villages and have used mls and the villages/ we will not use the 1.5 / we were told to put down /$100.00 and it worked out fine:coolsmiley:

Confusing----did you buy or sell in the villages?