Millionaire concentration in TV

[manaboutown]

according to Kiplinger. Read the Part about Florida. I could not believe TV was mentioned given the huge numbers of wealthy folks in Palm Beach, Key Biscayne, Naples and so on. Millionaires in America 2019: All 50 States Ranked (https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/investing/T006-S001-millionaires-in-america-2019-all-50-states-ranked/index.html?cid=GEM&utm_source=gemini&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=carouselgeneral)

[Chi-Town]

An excerpt from that article:

"Florida's popularity as a retirement destination helps boost its concentration of millionaires. Indeed, an hour's drive north of Walt Disney World, you’ll find The Villages, a sprawling retirement haven with one of the highest numbers of millionaires per capita in the country."

Bodes well for the new chop house.

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[manaboutown]

An excerpt from that article:

"Florida's popularity as a retirement destination helps boost its concentration of millionaires. Indeed, an hour's drive north of Walt Disney World, you’ll find The Villages, a sprawling retirement haven with one of the highest numbers of millionaires per capita in the country."

Bodes well for the new chop house.

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:mmmm::mmmm::mmmm:

[dewilson58]

A million dollars ain't what it use to be.


























Hopefully, this post is helpful.

[TheWarriors]

A million dollars ain't what it use to be.

But neither are we ;)

[Velvet]

An excerpt from that article:

"Florida's popularity as a retirement destination helps boost its concentration of millionaires. Indeed, an hour's drive north of Walt Disney World, you’ll find The Villages, a sprawling retirement haven with one of the highest numbers of millionaires per capita in the country."

Bodes well for the new chop house.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Having been here with my parents and my aunt and uncle since 1992, I can categorically say TV was not made up of wealthy individuals. Actually people came here because they could afford it! Why do you suppose they wanted “free golf for life”? This was pasture and swamp and sinkholes.

There are a few very small enclaves of truly wealthy in TV. What about the rest?

I want to see the demographic income distribution of TV before I believe that we are so wealthy....

[Nucky]

A million dollars ain't what it used to be.


























Hopefully, this post is helpful.

Pardon me, Sir. Is that before or after Taxes that you speak of?

I have always found your posts helpful and Funny :1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Chatbrat]

I don't consider real estate as being a factor in being a millionaire, same goes for jewelry, cars and collectibles--If you have more than a million in liquid assets --then you are a real millionaire--and if you have a six figure retirement, you are also a millionaire--

[Velvet]

I don't consider real estate as being a factor in being a millionaire, same goes for jewelry, cars and collectibles--If you have more than a million in liquid assets --then you are a real millionaire--and if you have a six figure retirement, you are also a millionaire--

Yep!

[Dan9871]

The article said the criterion for their survey as people with one million in investable assets.

[Velvet]

Are you serious? I’d like to see the stats. One can say practically anything, it’s called “simulation” as a past researcher....and how would anybody know, for example, how much investable assets I have now, my parents had, or my aunt and uncle have? Where did they get their survey from who did they interview... cause it sure wasn’t any of us....

[dewilson58]

I don't consider real estate as being a factor in being a millionaire, same goes for jewelry, cars and collectibles--If you have more than a million in liquid assets --then you are a real millionaire--and if you have a six figure retirement, you are also a millionaire--




Can be investable assets.

[Chatbrat]

until investible assets are turned into cash, they have zero worth, till a buyer will actually spend their $$ to acquire assets--its true--look @ the give aways @ estate sales and auctions

[Velvet]

You know that there is no way someone would reveal that information, their invested assets, especially with as many outsiders as we have in TV.

[manaboutown]

I don't consider real estate as being a factor in being a millionaire, same goes for jewelry, cars and collectibles--If you have more than a million in liquid assets --then you are a real millionaire--and if you have a six figure retirement, you are also a millionaire--

I wonder what Jay Leno's car and motorcycle collection is worth? Ever been to a Mecum or other collector car auction?

Stamps, coins, antique furniture, fine artwork (Van Gogh anyone?) all can come into play. Not the run of the mill stuff, but truly collectible items.

As previously stated, 'A million dollars isn't what it used to be.'

So to me, today's true millionaire is someone having an income of a million dollars a year or more.

[Chi-Town]

When calculating net worth your house is not in that equation. It's a separate line somewhere afterwards.




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[billethkid]

One can have a million (or more) dollars net worth and have no liquid assets.
Are they millionaires? The article states invested assets....hence the answer is Yes!
Defining/clarification of terms/assumptions is usually helpful.

Also note the reference to millionaires per capita....a locale with 2 residents one a millionaire, can boast 50% of the population are millionaires!!!

[Bavarian]

Inflation. A Million now was worth $100,000 ten years ago. And are the Developers worth included?

[retiredguy123]

Inflation. A Million now was worth $100,000 ten years ago. And are the Developers worth included?
Huh? By my calculation, a million dollars today was worth about $840,000, ten years ago. The cumulative inflation rate for the past 10 years was about 19.4 percent.

[retiredguy123]

I think a lot of people who have money today, accumulated it by developing a very frugal and practical lifestyle attitude. And, now that they can afford to spend more money, they can't do it without creating a lot of extra stress in their life.

[manaboutown]

I think a lot of people who have money today, accumulated it by developing a very frugal and practical lifestyle attitude. And, now that they can afford to spend more money, they can't do it without creating a lot of extra stress in their life.

I agree. I spent nine years in Los Alamos, NM which has the highest proportion of millionaires of any working folks town of comparable size in the country as far as I know.
Los Alamos Tops Nation in Millionaires >> Albuquerque Journal (https://www.abqjournal.com/67326/los-alamos-tops-nation-in-millionaires.html)
Most of my co-workers at the lab had spent years in graduate school and were frugal beyond belief. Some of those who smoked (very few) rolled their own cigarettes. Many bought their clothes at K-Mart or Goodwill. They kept and maintained their modest vehicles for many years and even sold their children's underwear when outgrown. Getting through four to six years of graduate school is tough training both intellectually and financially.

My thought is the typical Villager worked hard, saved and invested, and spent wisely over his/her lifetime. Now he/she is living off the results of their deferred gratification!

[TheWarriors]

Gosh, I’m surprised no one said we need to redistribute this wealth, haha!

[Bogie Shooter]

You know that there is no way someone would reveal that information, their invested assets, especially with as many outsiders as we have in TV.

What is an outsider?

[Chatbrat]

Lets say you got $10 million invested generating $500K a year in tax free muni's --are you a millionaire--zero debt, no mortage-and you're in you'r in your 70's , zero problems--besides a lot of cash for emergencies--do you think you can make it here ?

[Velvet]

Gosh, I’m surprised no one said we need to redistribute this wealth, haha!

They are asking to redistribute wealth by raising property tax on the current owners to subsidize Others.

In this case, an “outsider” is one whose assets you have no access of information to for whatever reason. I bet some Snowbirds might fit into the category too.

[Velvet]

A million doesn’t get you much these days, maybe a Couple of Ferraris....

[Chatbrat]

It nots the cost its the $4500 6 month service

[Toymeister]

Millionaire is a term that is tossed around a whole bunch.

Using the Trinity's study safe rate of withdrawal of 4% it's just 40,000 in annual withdrawals, indexed to inflation. Of if you annuitize it 55k. Good but not exactly wealthy.

[Villageswimmer]

I think a lot of people who have money today, accumulated it by developing a very frugal and practical lifestyle attitude. And, now that they can afford to spend more money, they can't do it without creating a lot of extra stress in their life.

So true.

[valuemkt]

If the average Villager did not have a large amount of investable assets, there wouldn't be a disproportionate amount of "wealth managers" and "trust" companies pining for your money .. Nor would there be incessant ads in the Daily Sun just "aching" to give you 8% returns on your hard earned funds .. Just think about it..

[Bogie Shooter]

They are asking to redistribute wealth by raising property tax on the current owners to subsidize Others.

In this case, an “outsider” is one whose assets you have no access of information to for whatever reason. I bet some Snowbirds might fit into the category too.

Where do I look for information on “insiders”?

[Velvet]

[QUOTE=Bogie Shooter;1667708]Where do I look for information on “insiders”?[/QUOTE

The “insiders” are the poor sucks whose info is public knowledge, like teacher like myself...

[Chatbrat]

There are lots of people here ready to have their assets picked by professional managers & annuity peddlers---word to the wise , ignore all those free such/dinners--could be the most expensive meal of your life

Best ? for anyone hosting one of these events--"if you are so smart , how come you are still working"?

[VJBama]

Secret location where millionaires keep their money?

Fidelity or Vanguard, likely. Cayman Islands very, very unlikely.

Vanguard is the largest manager of 401ks in the United States.

Cayman Islands, really? Where do people get this stuff from, movies? TV?

The truth is millionaires come from people who spend less than they earn and have done this for decades.

[Velvet]

Cayman Islands... my niece works for a bank there, but you’re right there has been a redirection of funds internationally.

[eyc234]

We have lots of liquid assets and we drink them every day. There is an old saying, money can not buy happiness but a lack of money can guarantee unhappiness. It seems inconsequential to even ask the question of who has what. We do not even know what most people in our neighbor did for a living much less how much money they have, this is as bad as some one saying how many Facebook friends they have. WHO CARES!!!!

[Altavia]

Took me 55 yrs of 50-60+ hr weeks to get here, and I plan to enjoy the heck out of it. :a040:

[Altavia]

They are asking to redistribute wealth by raising property tax on the current owners to subsidize Others.

.

Or the new buyers have been subsidizing the government finances via their higher tax proportions and bonds such that no tax increase has been need for years. So now it's time for the long timers to start to help pay their share. :beer3:

It's just my kids inheritance so I don't really care :1rotfl:

[Velvet]

What government finances? When TV started up, there was nothing but pasture land and swamp, and you couldn’t build on the swamp. Anything built was paid for through bonds and maintenance by the old folk who bought here from Mr. Shwartz.

[canyonblue]

Huh? By my calculation, a million dollars today was worth about $840,000, ten years ago. The cumulative inflation rate for the past 10 years was about 19.4 percent.

Actually $837,567.30 to be exact. But i know where you're coming from.

[Bay Kid]

I can keep all my money in a tin can.

[graciegirl]

There are lots of people here ready to have their assets picked by professional managers & annuity peddlers---word to the wise , ignore all those free such/dinners--could be the most expensive meal of your life

Best ? for anyone hosting one of these events--"if you are so smart , how come you are still working"?

That goes without saying. THAT is how they got a lot of money. The few folks I know who have a lot of dough are the ones who have been careful with it all of their life. Funny how that pays off. Everyone has something they like to spend money on that others don't. For the rich....it is usually not gambling.

[billethkid]

My view is much simpler. If the powers that be in the world of tax or not more or less did not have to raise taxes while TV was doubling in size, nor while TV was tripling in size, now deem it necessary to raise taxes.

There most certainly was the doubling and tripling of revenue increases along with the growth....which until now has proven to be adequate.

There is most definitely something new in the equation, that will only be revealed via a line by line analysis of prior years actual expenditures VS the proposed budget that includes the proposed increase. There are not many public officials who are willing to do that as they either don't know how or don't care or just simply will not take the time to do it.

We the tax payer can demand it. Here again.....most will not

[vintageogauge]

Huh? By my calculation, a million dollars today was worth about $840,000, ten years ago. The cumulative inflation rate for the past 10 years was about 19.4 percent.

Agree, inflation has been minimal for the last 10 years.

[vintageogauge]

I think a lot of people who have money today, accumulated it by developing a very frugal and practical lifestyle attitude. And, now that they can afford to spend more money, they can't do it without creating a lot of extra stress in their life.

You just described my wife.

[manaboutown]

As I see it most of the millionaires in TV are "Millionaire Next Door" types rather than ultra wealthy owning mansions, yachts and jet aircraft (except for the Morse family of course). The Millionaire Next Door - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door)

[Nucky]

The lifestyle of Fast Women & Slow Horses many be fun for a while but in the end, you will go out broke, maybe an uncomfortable retirement. Being Conservative is Where Its At.

I think the Concentration of Millionaires in The Villages would be a Major Suprise. I have my thoughts but since I have no real proof what's the use?

[Velvet]

Nucky, you are right in my opinion too. You see, how much easier on their conscience it is to claim there are so many millionaires in TV so it’s ok to raise the taxes? Even called for, perhaps.

[Chi-Town]

$1.7M net worth seems to be the magic number to retire comfortably. So you have to be a millionaire to start out with.

How Much Money Will You Need to Retire? Survey Says: $1.7 Million -- The Motley Fool (https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/06/12/how-much-money-will-you-need-to-retire-survey-says.aspx)

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[billethkid]

Of the 130,000 residents here in TV how many retired with more than One million in savings?

My bet? Less than 10%.....much less than 10%!!!

A pretty fair sized community retired/living comfortably....non millionaires!!!

[Chatbrat]

Get a NYC civil service job, you used to retire based on one high year--the young man who took over my job when I quit in 83', his pension was $165K, + local 3 IBEW annuity and pension, + Social Security,

To, quote the developer, you don't have to be a millionaire to live like one--just have a good retirement pension with union side benefits

[TimeForChange]

IRA's rolled from 401K's. This does not surprise me. In the golf group I have played with for seven years I kind of know most of the guy's backgrounds. Over 60% are worth over a million if you include their investments from IRA's.

[eweissenbach]

As has been pointed out my many, a million dollars is not generational wealth in this day and time. In fact, if a person had a million dollars in liquid assets, and had no pension and minimal social security, they might struggle to get by long term in TV. I doubt that many truly wealthy people live in The Villages, as they can afford the Villages lifestyle anywhere and may prefer to live on the Ocean or Gulf, or in a cosmopolitan city. Most millionaires I know inherited much if not all of their wealth. The others I know are much like my children, who took a risk by going into big time debt fifteen years ago and built their business into the most successful of its kind in the area. I am certain there are many "millionaires" in TV by a minimal definition of that term, but no more than a very few really "wealthy". Whatever, I find it a great place to be on the meager amount I have been able to accumulate.

[manaboutown]

Dr. Stanley in doing his research for "The Millionaire Next Door" discovered fewer than 20% of millionaires inherited their wealth as over 80% of them made it on their own. See page 3 in the Introduction.

[Velvet]

The big draw of TV is it is affordable, and safe. Unlike some places outside the bubble.

[TheWarriors]

Actually most millionaires don’t live extravagantly, you probably know several but they would never let you know of their financial status. TV would likely attract them as an affordable, safe, conservative and low key community.

[rustyp]

As has been pointed out my many, a million dollars is not generational wealth in this day and time. In fact, if a person had a million dollars in liquid assets, and had no pension and minimal social security, they might struggle to get by long term in TV. I doubt that many truly wealthy people live in The Villages, as they can afford the Villages lifestyle anywhere and may prefer to live on the Ocean or Gulf, or in a cosmopolitan city. Most millionaires I know inherited much if not all of their wealth. The others I know are much like my children, who took a risk by going into big time debt fifteen years ago and built their business into the most successful of its kind in the area. I am certain there are many "millionaires" in TV by a minimal definition of that term, but no more than a very few really "wealthy". Whatever, I find it a great place to be on the meager amount I have been able to accumulate.

Part of the success of this strategy is no payments - no mortgage, no car payment, no credit card balance etc. A million dollars making 3 % /yr is 30K. Add social security of say 20K and that equals 50K without touching any principal.That million will probably outlast your golf game.

[Velvet]

Actually most millionaires don’t live extravagantly, you probably know several but they would never let you know of their financial status. TV would likely attract them as an affordable, safe, conservative and low key community.

OK.

[graciegirl]

Actually most millionaires don’t live extravagantly, you probably know several but they would never let you know of their financial status. TV would likely attract them as an affordable, safe, conservative and low key community.

Well said.

[manaboutown]

Actually most millionaires don’t live extravagantly, you probably know several but they would never let you know of their financial status. TV would likely attract them as an affordable, safe, conservative and low key community.

:agree:

Self made millionaires know the value of a dollar. Most of them became financially successful by working hard, investing wisely and living below their means.

[billethkid]

Actually most millionaires don’t live extravagantly, you probably know several but they would never let you know of their financial status. TV would likely attract them as an affordable, safe, conservative and low key community.

:agree:

Self made millionaires know the value of a dollar. Most of them became financially successful by working hard, investing wisely and living below their means.

Well stated!!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Are you serious? I’d like to see the stats. One can say practically anything, it’s called “simulation” as a past researcher....and how would anybody know, for example, how much investable assets I have now, my parents had, or my aunt and uncle have? Where did they get their survey from who did they interview... cause it sure wasn’t any of us....

Surveys. There's a bunch of companies on the internet, you take surveys and earn points. Then trade the points in for gift cards. The surveys are sponsored by all kinds of other companies, and the survey company provides the data from the survey-taker to their client.

If a survey-taker switches around their answer too many times it sets off a flag and they are kicked out and no longer able to take surveys (therefore not able to get gift cards) anymore.

Plus these surveys are looking for ALL kinds of things, and sometimes only use the answer to the question "how much in investable assets do you have" to verify that you really are you, taking the survey.

In addition, some of those companies are looking for specific demographics and you only qualify to take the survey, if you meet that demographic. So it's in your best interest, if you really want to participate, to tell the truth. If you say you only have $20k in investable assets and they're looking to reward someone with more than $500,000 to invest, then you just disqualified yourself.

I'd say it isn't likely that someone with a million bucks in investable assets would be interested in taking these surveys but apparently some do.

Often these surveys contribute to those political polls you see on the internet.

[Velvet]

I believe you, I’ve just never heard of these type of surveys.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I believe you, I’ve just never heard of these type of surveys.

Ipsos is one of the leading companies that provides global marketing consulting. That's the term for it: global marketing. There's a bunch of companies. I have a friend who is registered exclusively with Ipsos, I do mostly MyPoints, which is sort of a 4th party marketing consulting company, and includes Ipsos surveys.

End result for me: my opinion is counted in hundreds of marketing projects for hundreds of companies that do business in the USA, I get to beta-test products, and I haven't paid with my own money for Starbucks, Amazon, or Google Play purchases - ever.

[graciegirl]

Many people from the tony sections near Miami and West Palm beach are now Villages residents.

And many have stayed where they are. I think discussing a persons money is the most personal of all discussions. The most important thing is that most here did nothing illegal or immoral to be wealthy and they don't usually flaunt it. There are also a couple of billionaires that live in The Villages too.

It is a very nice place to live for all people of all means of a certain age.

When my grandchildren were learning to read, I printed this on the walls near the ceiling on our screened porch. "If you want to be rich, rise early and work hard". I should have added; "and stay late and clean up".

[ColdNoMore]

Since Gary Morse died and most likely his estimated billion dollars has been spread to many members of Da Family, I seriously doubt...there are ANY billionaire's living here. :oops:

Why in the world would they?

If someone can prove otherwise...I would love to see that proof.

It is interesting (and sad) to note however, the number of people in this country who are awed by, and seem to automatically acquiesce/submit...to the very wealthy. :ohdear:

[Packer Fan]

Out of 64 posts I think I read about 4 decent ones that addressed the actual OP and the issue correctly. A few notes -
1. The term Millionaire refers to a total net worth of over a million dollars. This is not up for debate - it is the definition. It is what you own minus what you owe. If you have a $500K paid for house in TV and $500K in an IRA, with no debt you are a Millionaire. I find it crazy that many in this thread tried to say "this is my definition". It is sort of like saying you have a different definition of what a fish is... of course Kiplinger's article is just talking about investable wealth, so that is not even correct.
2. At a minimum, I would say that just to pay for a Premier home and the upkeep, a person would either have to be in crazy amounts of debt or be a millionaire. They start in the $600K range and go up from there. There are also a large portion of designer homes over $500K.... I believe I read somewhere that over 50% of the homes in TV are paid for with cash.
3. Someone made the excellent point that $1,000,000 only throws off $40k in annual income - that is true. Millionaires are pretty common compared to 20 or 30 years ago just due to inflation.
4. In addition to the Millionaire next door, there is an even better book out now by Chris Hogan who works for Dave Ramsey - Everyday Millionaires. #171: The biggest study of everyday millionaires in 25 years - with Chris Hogan - Afford Anything (https://affordanything.com/171-the-biggest-study-of-everyday-millionaires-in-25-years-with-chris-hogan/)
5. Kiplingers is a very reputable publication - I am sure they got their information from good sources (tax rolls?) Not sure where, but I am sure it has at least some credibility.
6. The reality is that with 401Ks and IRAs it is not that hard to become a millionaire. Just saving $550 a month from 30-65 invested in a stock/bond mix gets you there. That just is not that much. That is not even counting the company match most get.

I think the best post said live on less than you make and invest the difference. That is how almost all millionaires get there. I look around this place and it is not hard for me to believe the Kiplinger article at all.

[Bay Kid]

If you are lucky enough to live in The Villages you are already rich!

[Villageswimmer]

Out of 64 posts I think I read about 4 decent ones that addressed the actual OP and the issue correctly. A few notes -
1. The term Millionaire refers to a total net worth of over a million dollars. This is not up for debate - it is the definition. It is what you own minus what you owe. If you have a $500K paid for house in TV and $500K in an IRA, with no debt you are a Millionaire. I find it crazy that many in this thread tried to say "this is my definition". It is sort of like saying you have a different definition of what a fish is... of course Kiplinger's article is just talking about investable wealth, so that is not even correct.
2. At a minimum, I would say that just to pay for a Premier home and the upkeep, a person would either have to be in crazy amounts of debt or be a millionaire. They start in the $600K range and go up from there. There are also a large portion of designer homes over $500K.... I believe I read somewhere that over 50% of the homes in TV are paid for with cash.
3. Someone made the excellent point that $1,000,000 only throws off $40k in annual income - that is true. Millionaires are pretty common compared to 20 or 30 years ago just due to inflation.
4. In addition to the Millionaire next door, there is an even better book out now by Chris Hogan who works for Dave Ramsey - Everyday Millionaires. #171: The biggest study of everyday millionaires in 25 years - with Chris Hogan - Afford Anything (https://affordanything.com/171-the-biggest-study-of-everyday-millionaires-in-25-years-with-chris-hogan/)
5. Kiplingers is a very reputable publication - I am sure they got their information from good sources (tax rolls?) Not sure where, but I am sure it has at least some credibility.
6. The reality is that with 401Ks and IRAs it is not that hard to become a millionaire. Just saving $550 a month from 30-65 invested in a stock/bond mix gets you there. That just is not that much. That is not even counting the company match most get.

I think the best post said live on less than you make and invest the difference. That is how almost all millionaires get there. I look around this place and it is not hard for me to believe the Kiplinger article at all.


Au contrare. According to the referenced Kiplinger article, the definition is “a million in investible dollars, EXCLUDING real estate, pensions, etc.” A higher bar for sure.

[justjim]

Gosh, I’m surprised no one said we need to redistribute this wealth, haha!

A wise person once said, “Money is like manure as it does no good unless you spread it around”. I have observed a number of people who “hoard” their “nest egg” perhaps afraid that they are going to run out of money before they are laid to rest...

[Chi-Town]

Au contrare. According to the referenced Kiplinger article, the definition is “a million in investible dollars, EXCLUDING real estate, pensions, etc.” A higher bar for sure.

When you do a net worth analysis with a financial planner those exclusions are clearly stated.

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[retiredguy123]

You can calculate it anyway you want. But, a person with $900k in the bank, a $500k paid for house, and an $80k pension is certainly richer than a person with $1 million in the bank who does not own a house or have a pension. But, by the definition often used, the richer person is not a millionaire.

[Velvet]

In my experience, financial people like to look at your investable assets only, because that’s what they can make a commission on.

[vintageogauge]

You can calculate it anyway you want. But, a person with $900k in the bank, a $500k paid for house, and an $80k pension is certainly richer than a person with $1 million in the bank who does not own a house or have a pension. But, by the definition often used, the richer person is not a millionaire.

The different ways of figuring out your worth is meaningless, you have what you have and no one else should really care. Based on this if you have 2.5 million sitting around in various cash accounts you are a pretty comfortable millionaire but then you buy a 2 million dollar home paying cash for it you are no longer a millionaire. I don't think so.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

6. The reality is that with 401Ks and IRAs it is not that hard to become a millionaire. Just saving $550 a month from 30-65 invested in a stock/bond mix gets you there. That just is not that much. That is not even counting the company match most get.


I agreed with your post til you came to the above point. It is VERY hard to become a millionaire, if you don't earn enough to cover the bills AND save $550/month at the same time.

In fact, most of the country is unable to save $550/month, and some of the country doesn't even earn $550/month. The latter is definitely the minority.

But if it were that easy to do, then you'd see most people doing it. How to know it's not true: most people aren't millionaires. Most people have modest savings, live in modest homes, can pay their bills with enough left over for a week in Vegas, and put 3% of their modest paychecks into a matching 401k plan at work.

Once the kids are old enough for college, they're strapped for cash, and have to cut back on those Vegas vacations.

When they retire, they will be nowhere near being a millionaire. They'll live on a limited income that will allow them to live comfortably, but not extravagantly. MOST people will never be able to afford a $500,000 home. MOST people won't even be able to afford a $300,000 home, anywhere in the USA.

[Villageswimmer]

In my experience, financial people like to look at your investable assets only, because that’s what they can make a commission on.


Interesting take and so true!

[vintageogauge]

I agreed with your post til you came to the above point. It is VERY hard to become a millionaire, if you don't earn enough to cover the bills AND save $550/month at the same time.

In fact, most of the country is unable to save $550/month, and some of the country doesn't even earn $550/month. The latter is definitely the minority.

But if it were that easy to do, then you'd see most people doing it. How to know it's not true: most people aren't millionaires. Most people have modest savings, live in modest homes, can pay their bills with enough left over for a week in Vegas, and put 3% of their modest paychecks into a matching 401k plan at work.

Once the kids are old enough for college, they're strapped for cash, and have to cut back on those Vegas vacations.

When they retire, they will be nowhere near being a millionaire. They'll live on a limited income that will allow them to live comfortably, but not extravagantly. MOST people will never be able to afford a $500,000 home. MOST people won't even be able to afford a $300,000 home, anywhere in the USA.

If you want to get ahead in this country you have to start young. When I joined the work force, got married and had children we chose to have my wife stay at home and take care of the kids, etc. I felt compelled to work full time and also part time, did odd jobs on the weekends fixing things for people, cleaning out garbage and trash, picking up scrap metal and selling it, etc. I didn't have as good of a job as some of my friends but with the extra work I did I earned more than them. I was always able to save for retirement from the very beginning. Without exaggeration I worked a minimum of 55 hours a week my entire life until I retired and even then I worked in a store for a couple years to keep busy and add to my retirement savings. My children have the same work ethics. What I'm getting at is the opportunity to have a million dollars when retired was out there, all you have to do is go for it and watch how you spend it. I have to touch on college. There is nothing wrong with having your children work their way through college, living at home and having a job while going to school, it might take up to 8 years but you will start life out debt free, I know many, many people that have done this and there kids are doing the same, some employers will even help pay for college. Complaining about student loans is BS and in most cases should not even exist.

[Chi-Town]

The age group that experienced the full effects of the Great Depression who were very frugal and loathe to spend money frivolously have left us or will soon. Their estate is passed to their heirs tax free (in most cases), and may be a factor in the high millionaire rate here.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Villageswimmer]

The age group that experienced the full effects of the Great Depression who were very frugal and loathe to spend money frivolously have left us or will soon. Their estate is passed to their heirs tax free (in most cases), and may be a factor in the high millionaire rate here.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Yes. OR, they picked up frugal habits from their depression-era parents and lived below their means. Now those habits are paying off.

It will be interesting to see how the next generation handles inherited windfalls that their parents (us) were so careful in spending.

[manaboutown]

In my experience, financial people like to look at your investable assets only, because that’s what they can make a commission on.

When I read this I almost choked on my morning coffee. So true! :1rotfl::clap2::coolsmiley:

[Polar Bear]

In my experience, financial people like to look at your investable assets only, because that’s what they can make a commission on.
Agree.

But along a different line, can anybody recommend a financial consultant who will work on a straight fee basis? Somebody to just answer questions about possible future issues _knowing up front_ that there are no investment commissions in the picture?

[Topspinmo]

Gosh, I’m surprised no one said we need to redistribute this wealth, haha!

:bigbow:
It’s coming

[Altavia]

Cash out your entire 401K and 40% of it will be redistributed immediately :shocked:

[Dan9871]

Agree.

But along a different line, can anybody recommend a financial consultant who will work on a straight fee basis? Somebody to just answer questions about possible future issues _knowing up front_ that there are no investment commissions in the picture?

Johnathan Honig Capitalistpig | Consultation (http://capitalistpig.com/consultation/)

[retiredguy123]

Agree.

But along a different line, can anybody recommend a financial consultant who will work on a straight fee basis? Somebody to just answer questions about possible future issues _knowing up front_ that there are no investment commissions in the picture?
Vanguard has certified financial planners that will talk with you on the phone by appointment. If you have a certain amount of assets invested with them, it is free.

[Polar Bear]

Thanks for the very sound replies.

But I was actually looking for assistance with more general financial questions, including consideration of various options for a real estate purchase.

[biker1]

Yes, and if you want an advisor they charge 0.3%.

Vanguard has certified financial planners that will talk with you on the phone by appointment. If you have a certain amount of assets invested with them, it is free.

[valuemkt]

Thanks for the very sound replies.

But I was actually looking for assistance with more general financial questions, including consideration of various options for a real estate purchase.

IMO, Most financial "advisors" will give you advice and develop an investment plan centered around stocks, mutual funds, maybe bonds and preferreds . That;s their schooling .. and many of course are tied to major brokerage houses.

If they happen to personally own real estate, they can pass along their experience or point of view .. but, I would not seek nor rely on their advice regarding real estate purchases for investment ..

Depending on how deep into you want to go, you need to find someone experienced in the market you are after and figure out how to attach to their coattails.

That's way beyond the scope of this thread

[wscarrier]

Are you serious? I’d like to see the stats. One can say practically anything, it’s called “simulation” as a past researcher....and how would anybody know, for example, how much investable assets I have now, my parents had, or my aunt and uncle have? Where did they get their survey from who did they interview... cause it sure wasn’t any of us....
Look at the article in the paper a few months ago on deposits in checking and savings accounts in local banks. Also had the AGI on tax returns in our zip codes. Impressive numbers. These hard numbers not estimates or subjective data. Just saying.

[Velvet]

Who is going to put a million into a deposit or saving account? I had no idea Sumter county was so wealthy, where do all these folks hang out?

When I was a teenager I had a part time job as receptionist at an exclusive yacht club. Senior memberships at the club in the 1967 was $36,000 or about $276,000 in today’s money.

The club had 2 types of millionaires; self made, those people who wouldn’t spend 25¢ to rent a towel when they went swimming at the pool, and their kids who inherited the money later. The kids partied hard and jetsetted and basically wasted the old man’s money away like there was no tomorrow. Taught me a lesson.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Who is going to put a million into a deposit or saving account? I had no idea Sumter county was so wealthy, where do all these folks hang out?

When I was a teenager I had a part time job as receptionist at an exclusive yacht club. Senior memberships at the club in the 1967 was $36,000 or about $276,000 in today’s money.

The club had 2 types of millionaires; self made, those people who wouldn’t spend 25¢ to rent a towel when they went swimming at the pool, and their kids who inherited the money later. The kids partied hard and jetsetted and basically wasted the old man’s money away like there was no tomorrow. Taught me a lesson.

If I had that kind of money I would totally jetset and party and waste at least SOME of it! What's the point of being rich if you can't enjoy spending? I'd also donate, offer financial support to causes I believe in, make sure my housekeeper is VERY well paid, and pass out random 50% tips to restaurant employees (including the bus boy and dishwasher).

The rest, I'd invest and live off of.

[manaboutown]

I recall reading that prior to The Villages extending into Sumter County it was among the poorest if not the poorest county in Florida. Fast forward: Retiree transplants have so significantly changed the overall demographics that today Sumter County is "old and (relatively) rich".

[Dond1959]

Thanks for the very sound replies.

But I was actually looking for assistance with more general financial questions, including consideration of various options for a real estate purchase.


Check out Bogleheads.org, great website with people who have succeeded financially or are on their way to financial independence. They can answer financial, real estate or any other issues. A search of their boards will probably answer any question you have.

[billethkid]

I recall reading that prior to The Villages extending into Sumter County it was among the poorest if not the poorest county in Florida. Fast forward: Retiree transplants have so significantly changed the overall demographics that today Sumter County is "old and (relatively) rich".

Most if not all in our (TV) corner of Sumter County.

[manaboutown]

Most if not all in our (TV) corner of Sumter County.

Yes. It is a geographically large but mostly rural county having low population density except for TV corner. I hear the powers that be in TV appear to now control it.

[Aloha1]

Net worth is one measure but I would suggest that disposable income is what really matters. It doesn't matter what you are "worth", what matters is what you have to spend on life's pleasures like dinner out, a trip, grandkids, etc.

[Packer Fan]

I agreed with your post til you came to the above point. It is VERY hard to become a millionaire, if you don't earn enough to cover the bills AND save $550/month at the same time.

In fact, most of the country is unable to save $550/month, and some of the country doesn't even earn $550/month. The latter is definitely the minority.

But if it were that easy to do, then you'd see most people doing it. How to know it's not true: most people aren't millionaires. Most people have modest savings, live in modest homes, can pay their bills with enough left over for a week in Vegas, and put 3% of their modest paychecks into a matching 401k plan at work.

Once the kids are old enough for college, they're strapped for cash, and have to cut back on those Vegas vacations.

When they retire, they will be nowhere near being a millionaire. They'll live on a limited income that will allow them to live comfortably, but not extravagantly. MOST people will never be able to afford a $500,000 home. MOST people won't even be able to afford a $300,000 home, anywhere in the USA.


They are not unable to save, they are UNWILLING to save. The median income in this country is about $60,000. $6600 a year is 11% of that. My daughter who makes about $24,000 a year and lives on her own is saving 8% already at 25 (and going to school, because she has figured out you don't want to live on that).

[Packer Fan]

If you want to get ahead in this country you have to start young. When I joined the work force, got married and had children we chose to have my wife stay at home and take care of the kids, etc. I felt compelled to work full time and also part time, did odd jobs on the weekends fixing things for people, cleaning out garbage and trash, picking up scrap metal and selling it, etc. I didn't have as good of a job as some of my friends but with the extra work I did I earned more than them. I was always able to save for retirement from the very beginning. Without exaggeration I worked a minimum of 55 hours a week my entire life until I retired and even then I worked in a store for a couple years to keep busy and add to my retirement savings. My children have the same work ethics. What I'm getting at is the opportunity to have a million dollars when retired was out there, all you have to do is go for it and watch how you spend it. I have to touch on college. There is nothing wrong with having your children work their way through college, living at home and having a job while going to school, it might take up to 8 years but you will start life out debt free, I know many, many people that have done this and there kids are doing the same, some employers will even help pay for college. Complaining about student loans is BS and in most cases should not even exist.

You are so spot on - 100% correct! Sometimes I wish this forum had a like button! It is not how much you make, it is how much you save that matters. There are LOTS of people with high incomes that have NOTHING. A lot of them were exposed in 2008.

BTW- one of my favorite passtimes at a stoplight is to add up the car payments around me as I sit in my paid for car, which may be worth less than a lot of those around me, but no payments feels WAY better.

[retiredguy123]

They are not unable to save, they are UNWILLING to save. The median income in this country is about $60,000. $6600 a year is 11% of that. My daughter who makes about $24,000 a year and lives on her own is saving 8% already at 25 (and going to school, because she has figured out you don't want to live on that).
I totally agree. I have never spent more than 50 percent of my net income, and still don't.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

They are not unable to save, they are UNWILLING to save. The median income in this country is about $60,000. $6600 a year is 11% of that. My daughter who makes about $24,000 a year and lives on her own is saving 8% already at 25 (and going to school, because she has figured out you don't want to live on that).

In what state, doing what kind of job?

If you make $24k in Connecticut, you qualify for medicaid and foodstamps because that doesn't even pay the year's rent, let alone utility bills. If you earn $24k in New York City, you're probably living on the street, because you can't even rent a parking space for that cheap for a year there. You'd probably survive on $60k but you'd need at least one room-mate, and you'd have to live in a very small walk-up north of Central Park East.

Living in Florida you would live like a king on $60k/year. Totally doable on $24k/year.

But saving, if you're earning $24k/year in the Northeast post-bank-bust? That's just delusional thinking of someone who has never had to do it.

[TheWarriors]

Can’t help but notice those are very high tax areas. Why would anyone choose to barely make a living in a high cost area when you can move to a lower cost area and liver better on the same wages.

[graciegirl]

So enjoying reading the posts of people who truly have the work ethic and know how to save and to sacrifice. Cutting your own hair and even sewing your own clothes and drapes and canning vegetables and fruits you grew. Not buying what you want. Doing your own house repairs and painting...…... Knowing how to save on little things adds up. It adds up. And as said living where it is cheaper to live is important...and also living where it is safe. You have a brain to protect and survive and make the most of your life. Money helps that a lot. If you don't spend it, you still have it. We had our first home built when we were 22. Had saved the down payment while dating for four years. Made money on each home we owned.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Can’t help but notice those are very high tax areas. Why would anyone choose to barely make a living in a high cost area when you can move to a lower cost area and liver better on the same wages.

Why are you assuming I'm even talking about people who have an opportunity to CHOOSE to live anywhere? What a profoundly privileged thing to assume.

The premise is that it's easy to become a millionaire, all you have to do is work hard and save your money starting from when you're young.

It is a faulty premise, because it implies that working hard and saving is easy. And then, the "proof" is statistics of nationwide median incomes, as though that median represents every single part of every state in the country, AND that that median income will cover the same expenses in every part of the country. It completely discounts the fact that $60k in one state will not buy the same thing as $60k in another, and that in some states it isn't possible to save anything if you're making $24k, as in the example provided, because at that income you are most certainly living in debt.

So it's faulty evidence to back up a faulty claim.

[Garywt]

To quote my college history teacher, “so what and who cares”.

This will not affect me getting out of bed in the morning.

[TheWarriors]

Why are you assuming I'm even talking about people who have an opportunity to CHOOSE to live anywhere? What a profoundly privileged thing to assume.

The premise is that it's easy to become a millionaire, all you have to do is work hard and save your money starting from when you're young.

It is a faulty premise, because it implies that working hard and saving is easy. And then, the "proof" is statistics of nationwide median incomes, as though that median represents every single part of every state in the country, AND that that median income will cover the same expenses in every part of the country. It completely discounts the fact that $60k in one state will not buy the same thing as $60k in another, and that in some states it isn't possible to save anything if you're making $24k, as in the example provided, because at that income you are most certainly living in debt.

So it's faulty evidence to back up a faulty claim.

Everyone has the right to CHOOSE where they live, this is still America.