Giving money to street homeless

[jcvdd1]

OK, I get it. The Villages is a great place to live but some of the surrounding area near The Villages is not very desirable. Specifically the area just south of the Spanish Springs Town Square. Some of the supposedly homeless folks gather at the intersection holding onto a torn cardboard sign indicating that they are homeless and asking for money. They are not asking for food nor work but they are asking for free money.

My question is do you guys give these people money out of the kindness of your heart? It appears to me that if anyone is constantly giving money to these same people, then we as a society are partially responsible to the contribution for the state of homelessness that these people are in. If everyone stopped handing out money to these people and possibly offer them any type of work, then possibly this will provide them with the incentive to stop asking for money and start working in order to better themselves. I'm not referring to highly technologically demanding work, but rather any odd jobs that you may have at your residence. Although I'm sure that there are a few bad apples in this group and everyone needs to use common sense, but I'm certain that a majority of these people are good people if offered an opportunity.

[BobnBev]

How's the weather up there, with your head in the clouds. With all the construction in the area, there is no reason to be without a job. Some people just don't want to work, easier to beg.:ohdear:

[Velvet]

Yes, my mother used to ask them to do something for her, bring her groceries, maybe help around the house for money. She had no takers, ever.

[Marathon Man]

I agree with the others. Street corner pan handling is not new. I've never heard of a single time when work was accepted when offered. And I know many who have offered.

[manaboutown]

Some of those people bring in $100K/year tax free begging! Why work?

Man confronted by panhandler who rejected offer for work - Story | FOX 13 Tampa Bay (http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/business-owner-warns-drivers-after-panhandler-rejects-his-offer-for-work)

[vintageogauge]

I was always told to "help them to help themselves" and offering to get them work would fall into that category, giving cash would not. There is a pan handler in Key West that sits with a sign stating "Please help feed the ugly" that is one exception to my rule, he gets cash from me for having the guts to put that on a sign. The people in Key West doing this make a ton of money from tourists up here it's the same people going past them daily and they probably don't do all that well.

[jane032657]

Interesting topic. I am presently volunteering as an Executive Director (my profession) to help open a shelter for the homeless in Daytona/Volusia County where we live part of the year. The word homeless describes a state of being, not a person. The people who are homeless cannot be categorized under one umbrella. Certainly there are some who are fully functional but for whatever reason, prefer this life. However, there are so many people who are not as together as the rest of us. Addictions, Mental Health, Veterans with PTSD and other issues which changed their lives, those who lost their home or their jobs, those disenfranchised for so many sad reasons. Opportunity to get clean, or sober, or cleaned up and have some health care; to have some help getting into housing and job training, and life skill training, sometimes a hand up, sometimes unification with family. One day, take someone to coffee and buy them a meal and hear their story. It is so easy to judge until you get to the heart of the person. Not everyone who is homeless is just wanting to have a sign and a quarter given. People are people, everyone is different. And so many people are a paycheck away from finding themselves destitute. Consider your blessings a gift for your good fortune in life, and offer some hope to someone, even if it is just some kind words. You do not know what a difference you make to someone when you just listen and give a smile and some hope.

[ColdNoMore]

Interesting topic. I am presently volunteering as an Executive Director (my profession) to help open a shelter for the homeless in Daytona/Volusia County where we live part of the year. The word homeless describes a state of being, not a person. The people who are homeless cannot be categorized under one umbrella. Certainly there are some who are fully functional but for whatever reason, prefer this life. However, there are so many people who are not as together as the rest of us. Addictions, Mental Health, Veterans with PTSD and other issues which changed their lives, those who lost their home or their jobs, those disenfranchised for so many sad reasons. Opportunity to get clean, or sober, or cleaned up and have some health care; to have some help getting into housing and job training, and life skill training, sometimes a hand up, sometimes unification with family. One day, take someone to coffee and buy them a meal and hear their story. It is so easy to judge until you get to the heart of the person. Not everyone who is homeless is just wanting to have a sign and a quarter given. People are people, everyone is different. And so many people are a paycheck away from finding themselves destitute. Consider your blessings a gift for your good fortune in life, and offer some hope to someone, even if it is just some kind words. You do not know what a difference you make to someone when you just listen and give a smile and some hope.

Excellent post. :thumbup:


As for the topic, I typically give to those...who aren't actively asking.

The people who are obviously struggling, and sitting on the curb at a convenience store...are the ones who will most likely make me open my wallet.

[red tail]

Interesting topic. I am presently volunteering as an Executive Director (my profession) to help open a shelter for the homeless in Daytona/Volusia County where we live part of the year. The word homeless describes a state of being, not a person. The people who are homeless cannot be categorized under one umbrella. Certainly there are some who are fully functional but for whatever reason, prefer this life. However, there are so many people who are not as together as the rest of us. Addictions, Mental Health, Veterans with PTSD and other issues which changed their lives, those who lost their home or their jobs, those disenfranchised for so many sad reasons. Opportunity to get clean, or sober, or cleaned up and have some health care; to have some help getting into housing and job training, and life skill training, sometimes a hand up, sometimes unification with family. One day, take someone to coffee and buy them a meal and hear their story. It is so easy to judge until you get to the heart of the person. Not everyone who is homeless is just wanting to have a sign and a quarter given. People are people, everyone is different. And so many people are a paycheck away from finding themselves destitute. Consider your blessings a gift for your good fortune in life, and offer some hope to someone, even if it is just some kind words. You do not know what a difference you make to someone when you just listen and give a smile and some hope.

:mademyday:

[Velvet]

Hm... I think what individuals give on the street is quite random and inadequate, the church discourages it too, it encourages dependency... what is needed is a comprehensive program to deal with the various people’s needs.

[Jima64]

San Francisco spends over 300 million a year on programs for and problems caused by homeless people,,,, all approximately 5000 of them.
So give, make your shelters, you can't make them change if they like the street life.

[Velvet]

Honolulu has the largest per capita homeless probably in the US. At least that’s their impression. I have been following their attempts to deal with these people (who are often given a one way ticket to Hawaii from the mainland by their relatives etc.) The homeless particularly love Waikiki because of all the tourists from the mainland. For example, there was an incident of a tourist walking along the street with a slice of pizza he just bought. A homeless attacked him and ate his slice. When the homeless person was arrested and asked why he did it, the answer was: “The tourist was fat enough already, he didn’t need it.”(Star Advertiser)

[Bogie Shooter]

A few years back at about dusk, I stopped at the l75 exit at CR44.
Saw two of the poor homeless guys meet at a nice new van behind a service station, get in and drive off.
They did have a job it was panhandling.
How do you really know anybody with a handout is homeless?


Panhandling laws in Florida
https://legalbeagle.com/6953774-panhandling-laws-florida.html

[Velvet]

They are homeless in Hawaii because accommodation are so expensive, even the working poor can be homeless. Up north where I am, it’s different, we have a local lady who goes through the trash to pay her property tax on her beautiful, expensive home near by.

That might be some people in TV with the property tax increases soon.

[Bill32]

Nope....

[ColdNoMore]

San Francisco spends over 300 million a year on programs for and problems caused by homeless people,,,, all approximately 5000 of them.
So give, make your shelters, you can't make them change if they like the street life.

Do you have some type of proof or citation, that San Francisco (or any city for that matter)...spends $300M on 5,000 people?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The only money I've given to a person who didn't do anything to earn it at the time, was a guy with one leg sitting in a wheelchair downtown one day, while I was on my way to lunch. He was groomed, dressed in clean, though old clothes, and smiling. I sat down next to him and we had a conversation, and I gave him $5. It felt good to do that for him, and so I did.

Usually I carry bottles of water in the car and hand one to anyone looking like they could use it, if they're out panhandling. I generally don't give them money. But I've been known to buy someone lunch, or a snack, or share mine with them, and almost always spend time talking with them.

But, I went to college in Boston and was a street performer for several years, and got to know the homeless community in Harvard Square (Cambridge). Some of them were - just long-term druggies who were basically waiting to die. Most of the rest had amazing stories to tell and I was fortunate to have learned many of them. I never gave them money either, but I've shared many quarts of beer, meals, clothing, stories, songs with the folks in the Square over the years, and slept among them in the graveyard behind the church (a favorite spot in the late spring).

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Do you have some type of proof or citation, that San Francisco (or any city for that matter)...spends $300M on 5,000 people?

I don't know about costs, but there are over 9000 folks who fit the definition of "homeless" in the San Francisco Bay Area.

[Kenswing]

Do you have some type of proof or citation, that San Francisco (or any city for that matter)...spends $300M on 5,000 people?

Not San Francisco. But Seattle.. If you believe this article the Seattle metro area spends over $1Billion on 11,643 people..
Over the past five years, Seattle has seen an explosion of homelessness, crime, and addiction. | Christopher F. Rufo, City Journal (https://www.city-journal.org/seattle-homelessness)

Seattle is under siege. Over the past five years, the Emerald City has seen an explosion of homelessness, crime, and addiction. In its 2017 point-in-time count of the homeless, King County social-services agency All Home found 11,643 people sleeping in tents, cars, and emergency shelters. Property crime has risen to a rate two and a half times higher than Los Angeles’s and four times higher than New York City’s. Cleanup crews pick up tens of thousands of dirty needles from city streets and parks every year.

At the same time, according to the Puget Sound Business Journal, the Seattle metro area spends more than $1 billion fighting homelessness every year. That’s nearly $100,000 for every homeless man, woman, and child in King County, yet the crisis seems only to have deepened, with more addiction, more crime, and more tent encampments in residential neighborhoods. By any measure, the city’s efforts are not working.

[jane032657]

I came to Florida from Seattle and sat on committees for affordable housing and homelessness. It is a phenomenal problem in Seattle and people are living under the bridges and throughout the community. Lots of efforts taking place but the challenges seem to be endless.

[tophcfa]

I will give to someone who truly looks handicap and not capable of working. But health young people covered with expensive tattoos and smoking expensive cigarettes claiming they need cash for food won't get a penny from me.

[Velvet]

They are mentally handicapped?

[ColdNoMore]

Not San Francisco. But Seattle.. If you believe this article the Seattle metro area spends over $1Billion on 11,643 people..
Over the past five years, Seattle has seen an explosion of homelessness, crime, and addiction. | Christopher F. Rufo, City Journal (https://www.city-journal.org/seattle-homelessness)

Seattle is under siege. Over the past five years, the Emerald City has seen an explosion of homelessness, crime, and addiction. In its 2017 point-in-time count of the homeless, King County social-services agency All Home found 11,643 people sleeping in tents, cars, and emergency shelters. Property crime has risen to a rate two and a half times higher than Los Angeles’s and four times higher than New York City’s. Cleanup crews pick up tens of thousands of dirty needles from city streets and parks every year.

At the same time, according to the Puget Sound Business Journal, the Seattle metro area spends more than $1 billion fighting homelessness every year. That’s nearly $100,000 for every homeless man, woman, and child in King County, yet the crisis seems only to have deepened, with more addiction, more crime, and more tent encampments in residential neighborhoods. By any measure, the city’s efforts are not working.

May I suggest a little more research?

The city itself spends about $90M and then $360-$410M is spent by non-profits, which includes the cost of the thousands who are provided homes...so they aren't "homeless."


And that 'estimated' $1BILLION cost in your link...counts a whole lot more than direct money spent on the homeless.


The economics of homelessness in Seattle and King County | McKinsey (https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/future-of-cities/the-economics-of-homelessness-in-seattle-and-king-county)

In total, we estimate a budget of $360 million to $410 million would be needed (Exhibit 4). This is about twice what the system invests today. (In 2017, $196 million was spent on the Crisis Response System, leading to 8,100 exits from homelessness and the sustained support of some 4,000 PSH residents.)

But it is still less than the $1.1 billion that homelessness is estimated to cost the Seattle-area economy as a result of extra policing, lost tourism and business, and the frequent hospitalization of those living on the streets.


:ho:

[ColdNoMore]

I came to Florida from Seattle and sat on committees for affordable housing and homelessness. It is a phenomenal problem in Seattle and people are living under the bridges and throughout the community. Lots of efforts taking place but the challenges seem to be endless.

As you know, more than most, it's a huge problem in a lot of cities...and isn't getting smaller.

Hopefully, in the near future, innovative methods and the money will be found to start putting a dent...to the problem. :ohdear:

[Taltarzac725]

Everyday Hero: He Meets Homelessness Face to Face (https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2019/01/21/hero--brevard-man-goes-above-and-beyond-to-aid-homeless)

I followed this teacher's-- Tom Rebman's-- posts on Facebook for years about what it is like to be homeless in various Central Florida cities and/or towns.

It is a very complicated issue.

[Taltarzac725]

There are a lot of articles about him--

Teacher nears end of month of homelessness - Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/os-homeless-teacher-20140801-story.html)

[Kenswing]

May I suggest a little more research?

The city itself spends about $90M and then $360-$410M is spent by non-profits, which includes the cost of the thousands who are provided homes...so they aren't "homeless."


And that 'estimated' $1BILLION cost in your link...counts a whole lot more than direct money spent on the homeless.


The economics of homelessness in Seattle and King County | McKinsey (https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/future-of-cities/the-economics-of-homelessness-in-seattle-and-king-county)




:ho:


Money spent is money spent. Whether it's in directed programs, police response, medical care or cleanup.. It's still money spent.

And any way you look at it, it's money that's not providing the results they are hoping for.

And come on.. Saying that money that goes to providing homes doesn't count because they're not "homeless" is splitting hairs. Were they homeless before the homes were provided? Would they be homeless if the homes weren't provided? Most likely.

Regardless of how much is being spent we have a problem. So far we haven't found a solution. Throwing money at it obviously hasn't worked.

Someone once said "You can't solve the homeless problem by making your city a great place to be homeless"..

ETA: And if you look at my post I never said the City of Seattle spends $1Billion.

[Tom C]

Those on the corner with cardboard signs have never and will never get a dime from me. However, I have given thousands of dollars to homeless shelters and soup kitchens.

The money given on the corners will more than likely go to the local liquor store or worse. I know that 100% of the money that I give directly to the shelters will be used for food and shelter of those who are down on their luck.

[Taltarzac725]

Interesting topic. I am presently volunteering as an Executive Director (my profession) to help open a shelter for the homeless in Daytona/Volusia County where we live part of the year. The word homeless describes a state of being, not a person. The people who are homeless cannot be categorized under one umbrella. Certainly there are some who are fully functional but for whatever reason, prefer this life. However, there are so many people who are not as together as the rest of us. Addictions, Mental Health, Veterans with PTSD and other issues which changed their lives, those who lost their home or their jobs, those disenfranchised for so many sad reasons. Opportunity to get clean, or sober, or cleaned up and have some health care; to have some help getting into housing and job training, and life skill training, sometimes a hand up, sometimes unification with family. One day, take someone to coffee and buy them a meal and hear their story. It is so easy to judge until you get to the heart of the person. Not everyone who is homeless is just wanting to have a sign and a quarter given. People are people, everyone is different. And so many people are a paycheck away from finding themselves destitute. Consider your blessings a gift for your good fortune in life, and offer some hope to someone, even if it is just some kind words. You do not know what a difference you make to someone when you just listen and give a smile and some hope.

I am glad you are posting on Talk of the Villages. My younger brother was homeless for a while after we had to kick him out of the house here in the Villages as he would not stop drinking and lying about it. And he had a DUI with one of our cars. A religious organization in the Tampa Bay area eventually got him off of the street into a stable environment which he lost when he roommate turned out to be a sex offender from Michigan and the media made a huge thing of it even though the roommate had not re-offended. They just did not like this person to be anywhere near kids. Painting with too broad a brush for TV ratings IMHO. And then my late younger brother had the last long bender after getting back on his feet. He found a very good job but losing those daily church contacts to his beloved church made him fall to his illness yet again. He did have a stable environment through the church program but with the loss of that was drawn back into his alcohol addiction eventually due to whatever triggers must have set him off.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am glad you are posting on Talk of the Villages. My younger brother was homeless for a while after we had to kick him out of the house here in the Villages as he would not stop drinking and lying about it. And he had a DUI with one of our cars. A religious organization in the Tampa Bay area eventually got him off of the street into a stable environment which he lost when he roommate turned out to be a sex offender from Michigan and the media made a huge thing of it even though the roommate had not re-offended. They just did not like this person to be anywhere near kids. Painting with too broad a brush for TV ratings IMHO. And then my late younger brother had the last long bender after getting back on his feet. He found a very good job but losing those daily church contacts to his beloved church made him fall to his illness yet again. He did have a stable environment through the church program but with the loss of that was drawn back into his alcohol addiction eventually due to whatever triggers must have set him off.

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

Thing about homelessness - and even beggars on the street corners, is that until and unless you actually speak with them, and hear their story, you have no way of knowing their circumstances. And every single one of us is one mortgage payment, one drink, one surgery recovery painkiller, one tragic traumatic mind-snapping moment away from being in their place.

Does it mean we have any obligation to help every beggar we see, every person who looks down on their luck? Absolutely not. It isn't our obligation. But it is our responsibility to treat them like human beings and not look down on them like they're dirt under our feet. Even a nod of recognition of their existence, is better than how they are usually treated.

[Velvet]

I was told there is an Indian saying: if you have only 2 rupees, spend one on a water chestnut because you have to live, and spend the other on a movie because you need a reason for living.

[Chi-Town]

Not San Francisco. But Seattle.. If you believe this article the Seattle metro area spends over $1Billion on 11,643 people..

Over the past five years, Seattle has seen an explosion of homelessness, crime, and addiction. | Christopher F. Rufo, City Journal (https://www.city-journal.org/seattle-homelessness)



Seattle is under siege. Over the past five years, the Emerald City has seen an explosion of homelessness, crime, and addiction. In its 2017 point-in-time count of the homeless, King County social-services agency All Home found 11,643 people sleeping in tents, cars, and emergency shelters. Property crime has risen to a rate two and a half times higher than Los Angeles’s and four times higher than New York City’s. Cleanup crews pick up tens of thousands of dirty needles from city streets and parks every year.



At the same time, according to the Puget Sound Business Journal, the Seattle metro area spends more than $1 billion fighting homelessness every year. That’s nearly $100,000 for every homeless man, woman, and child in King County, yet the crisis seems only to have deepened, with more addiction, more crime, and more tent encampments in residential neighborhoods. By any measure, the city’s efforts are not working.This should be of more interest to you.

The Numbers Behind Oregon's Homelessness Crisis | Portland Monthly (https://www.pdxmonthly.com/articles/2019/4/23/the-numbers-behind-oregons-homelessness-crisis)

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[manaboutown]

A friend of mine was an reserve officer with a municipal police department for 35 years. During that period of time he talked with hundreds of homeless. Most all of them told him they wanted to live like they did. In other words it was their choice. He included this in a book he wrote about crime. https://www.amazon.com/ABQ-Blues-Crime-Policing-Albuquerque/dp/0578411016

ABQ BLUES - Crime and Policing Interview on KCHF TV - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSZ0sVQzwxA)

[anothersteve]

I am glad you are posting on Talk of the Villages. My younger brother was homeless for a while after we had to kick him out of the house here in the Villages as he would not stop drinking and lying about it. And he had a DUI with one of our cars. A religious organization in the Tampa Bay area eventually got him off of the street into a stable environment which he lost when he roommate turned out to be a sex offender from Michigan and the media made a huge thing of it even though the roommate had not re-offended. They just did not like this person to be anywhere near kids. Painting with too broad a brush for TV ratings IMHO. And then my late younger brother had the last long bender after getting back on his feet. He found a very good job but losing those daily church contacts to his beloved church made him fall to his illness yet again. He did have a stable environment through the church program but with the loss of that was drawn back into his alcohol addiction eventually due to whatever triggers must have set him off.

There comes a time when you have had enough. I'm going through that with my brother now. There are only so many times you can pick a person up until you realize they are beyond helping themselves. I'm done.
Steve

[manaboutown]

There comes a time when you have had enough. I'm going through that with my brother now. There are only so many times you can pick a person up until you realize they are beyond helping themselves. I'm done.
Steve

So you stopped enabling him. Good for you!

[Nucky]

There comes a time when you have had enough. I'm going through that with my brother now. There are only so many times you can pick a person up until you realize they are beyond helping themselves. I'm done.
Steve

STEVE, if you ever need to talk just PM me and we can speak a little more openly than we can on this Forum. As painful as it is you may be on the best course for you and your brother. I have experience in this area and I also have no regrets.

The only people I ever see hawking money is the people at the end of the exit to Walmart on 441. If you really wanna help them buy them a meal don't give them cash.

Watch for yourself when the people at that corner change shifts. Keep an eye on the vehicle that they take their break in. Not all of them are running a racket but some are. I want to use kind words and not paint with a wide brush. Some are legit some are total Fugazy's.

No matter how you slice it homelessness is a painful area to deal with when you have no background on how to help without getting hurt. I didn't know until lately about the situation in The Ocala Forest. Rough to say the least. :pray:

[graciegirl]

Be realistic. Be practical. Give only to someone you know personally who is in need. Or someone you don't know who has REAL need.

If you don't spend your money emotionally, you still have it. There are no points for wasting money.

It is not unkind to spend your money carefully, you worked hard for it.

[Chi-Town]

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

“ye have the poor always with you,”*

Hmmm, now who said that? And is it something to get used to or do something about.

[Taltarzac725]

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

Thing about homelessness - and even beggars on the street corners, is that until and unless you actually speak with them, and hear their story, you have no way of knowing their circumstances. And every single one of us is one mortgage payment, one drink, one surgery recovery painkiller, one tragic traumatic mind-snapping moment away from being in their place.

Does it mean we have any obligation to help every beggar we see, every person who looks down on their luck? Absolutely not. It isn't our obligation. But it is our responsibility to treat them like human beings and not look down on them like they're dirt under our feet. Even a nod of recognition of their existence, is better than how they are usually treated.

On my late younger brother, we lost him around late November of 2014. A hard journey with him and his alcoholism of about 15 years. If he had committed to the AA meetings and the AA 12 step program he would have done a lot better but he never really did that and lied constantly about his use of alcohol.

On a related note. I do not think that the panhandlers you see around US 441/27 are all that representative of the homeless you might find up in the Ocala National Forest.

I do try to take each person as an individual with his or her own stories though. Each is different from the last. It is a lot more work on the heart and mind though.

[VApeople]

My question is do you guys give these people money out of the kindness of your heart?

No, I never give money to beggars.

However, as I have grown older, I have turned into a fairly generous (by my standards) tipper - usually 30% for meals, and often $5 or so for a worker who is cleaning up at a place of work.

I respect people who work and take their job seriously. Since we always pay cash for our meals, I like to hand the money directly to the worker and thank them for the good service.

[Madelaine Amee]

Interesting topic. I am presently volunteering as an Executive Director (my profession) to help open a shelter for the homeless in Daytona/Volusia County where we live part of the year. The word homeless describes a state of being, not a person. The people who are homeless cannot be categorized under one umbrella. Certainly there are some who are fully functional but for whatever reason, prefer this life. However, there are so many people who are not as together as the rest of us. Addictions, Mental Health, Veterans with PTSD and other issues which changed their lives, those who lost their home or their jobs, those disenfranchised for so many sad reasons. Opportunity to get clean, or sober, or cleaned up and have some health care; to have some help getting into housing and job training, and life skill training, sometimes a hand up, sometimes unification with family. One day, take someone to coffee and buy them a meal and hear their story. It is so easy to judge until you get to the heart of the person. Not everyone who is homeless is just wanting to have a sign and a quarter given. People are people, everyone is different. And so many people are a paycheck away from finding themselves destitute. Consider your blessings a gift for your good fortune in life, and offer some hope to someone, even if it is just some kind words. You do not know what a difference you make to someone when you just listen and give a smile and some hope.

Thank you for your kindness and the work you do for the less fortunate. I was raised in a home where it was just accepted that you helped those less fortunate than yourself.

[manaboutown]

This, to me is fraud. There is far too much of it. Irvine City Council Candidate Caught Dropping Off Mom To Panhandle – CBS Los Angeles (https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/10/30/panhandling-irvine-laguna-beach-city-council-candidate-mom/)

[Velvet]

There comes a time when you have had enough. I'm going through that with my brother now. There are only so many times you can pick a person up until you realize they are beyond helping themselves. I'm done.
Steve

I understand, exactly. You can’t change other people, no matter what you do, you can only change yourself.

[perrjojo]

There are many reasons a person could be homeless but for many it is a choice. In my lifetime I have know two families with “homeless” children. The families were wiling and able to help but the adult children chose the homeless lifestyle. Maybe it was a mental heath issue but the families were heartbroken.

[tophcfa]

A wise man once told me that if someone is hungry you can buy them a nice fish dinner and they will be hungry again tomorrow looking for someone to buy them another dinner. But if you teach them to fish, they can provide their own fish dinners. The problem with many (not all) homeless people is that they would rather have someone else provide them with dinner and don't want to learn how to fish.

[manaboutown]

The problem with many (not all) homeless people is that they would rather have someone else provide them with dinner and don't want to learn how to fish.

As for leeches such as these "Let them eat cake!".

They are parasites by choice. These deadbeats think, "Why work when I can find plenty of suckers to give me money?"

[Bucco]

Interesting topic. I am presently volunteering as an Executive Director (my profession) to help open a shelter for the homeless in Daytona/Volusia County where we live part of the year. The word homeless describes a state of being, not a person. The people who are homeless cannot be categorized under one umbrella. Certainly there are some who are fully functional but for whatever reason, prefer this life. However, there are so many people who are not as together as the rest of us. Addictions, Mental Health, Veterans with PTSD and other issues which changed their lives, those who lost their home or their jobs, those disenfranchised for so many sad reasons. Opportunity to get clean, or sober, or cleaned up and have some health care; to have some help getting into housing and job training, and life skill training, sometimes a hand up, sometimes unification with family. One day, take someone to coffee and buy them a meal and hear their story. It is so easy to judge until you get to the heart of the person. Not everyone who is homeless is just wanting to have a sign and a quarter given. People are people, everyone is different. And so many people are a paycheck away from finding themselves destitute. Consider your blessings a gift for your good fortune in life, and offer some hope to someone, even if it is just some kind words. You do not know what a difference you make to someone when you just listen and give a smile and some hope.

First and foremost thank you for helping. At one time, I was working with spanish speaking in PA who either lived on the streets or close to it, and since in Florida have spent some time on the streets of Tampa, ALTHOUGH in no way close to the dedication you are giving.

I am of the opinion that it is part of our ever growing mental health crisis in this country, and to those who simply are posting here to JUDGE and LECTURE, I pray to God that you or yours are never in such a state as some of these folks.

God bless anyone who helps another human being as we are all God's creatures and thus deserve more than "get a job" or such emotions.

YES, lots of "con artists" playing us and use this situation, but we are, and have been in the past, but the rich, banks, etc also "play" us but they dress nice and will never fail in our society.

Keep up your good work because the divide between rich and poor continues to widen and the number at the bottom just grows.

Somehow these people are thought of as worse than rich and powerful who take advantage, and we make that judgement with zero knowledge or how they got where they are.

Again, God bless you

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

First and foremost thank you for helping. At one time, I was working with spanish speaking in PA who either lived on the streets or close to it, and since in Florida have spent some time on the streets of Tampa, ALTHOUGH in no way close to the dedication you are giving.

I am of the opinion that it is part of our ever growing mental health crisis in this country, and to those who simply are posting here to JUDGE and LECTURE, I pray to God that you or yours are never in such a state as some of these folks.

God bless anyone who helps another human being as we are all God's creatures and thus deserve more than "get a job" or such emotions.

YES, lots of "con artists" playing us and use this situation, but we are, and have been in the past, but the rich, banks, etc also "play" us but they dress nice and will never fail in our society.

Keep up your good work because the divide between rich and poor continues to widen and the number at the bottom just grows.

Somehow these people are thought of as worse than rich and powerful who take advantage, and we make that judgement with zero knowledge or how they got where they are.

Again, God bless you

We all judge. It's in our nature to do so. But some of us judge out of a sense of privileged superiority, and some judge out of just "I'm a human, therefore I judge."

There but for the grace of god go I. And when someone says they've met a lot of homeless who only want to rip people off, they usually mean they've seen this one guy who rips people off, do so regularly, therefore he represents a lot of them.

Yes there are some who choose the homeless life, but that is usually because they have to choose between that or something even worse. I've sat with young women who left their homes and chose to be homeless rather than live in a home where they and their siblings were physically assaulted by their parents, or sold into prostitution. If those are the only choices you have when you're 16 - accept being physically abused, or become someone's whore - the "choice" to be homeless looks pretty damned attractive.

If the "choice" is being overmedicated because the judge says you're disabled and need to be put away in a "safe place" where you get no visitors, have nothing to do, nowhere to go, and nothing but other insane people to talk to all day - OR living on the streets hoping for a moment of kindness from a stranger...then sure, that's a "choice."

Feel bad when you stub your toe. And then remember there are people who have no feet.

Or sit tight and confident with your righteous indignation about how all those smelly infected sick dirty homeless people dare to look you in the eye. Because that's your choice.

[Aces4]

I believe lecturing people is a turnoff. It’s really quite simple, give hand outs or don’t. I would never give a hand out to people begging on street corners. I do, as suggested earlier, support homeless shelters and food pantries.

Panhandling should be banned because of the danger of the situation for people traveling in those areas and the fact that it primarily funds illegal drugs.

Wasn’t too many years ago up north where a woman who was known to assist and help the homeless was murdered by one of the men she was assisting. I don’t like to see anyone guilted into opening their car window and handing out cash.

[Madelaine Amee]

We all judge. It's in our nature to do so. But some of us judge out of a sense of privileged superiority, and some judge out of just "I'm a human, therefore I judge."

There but for the grace of god go I. And when someone says they've met a lot of homeless who only want to rip people off, they usually mean they've seen this one guy who rips people off, do so regularly, therefore he represents a lot of them.

Yes there are some who choose the homeless life, but that is usually because they have to choose between that or something even worse. I've sat with young women who left their homes and chose to be homeless rather than live in a home where they and their siblings were physically assaulted by their parents, or sold into prostitution. If those are the only choices you have when you're 16 - accept being physically abused, or become someone's whore - the "choice" to be homeless looks pretty damned attractive.

If the "choice" is being overmedicated because the judge says you're disabled and need to be put away in a "safe place" where you get no visitors, have nothing to do, nowhere to go, and nothing but other insane people to talk to all day - OR living on the streets hoping for a moment of kindness from a stranger...then sure, that's a "choice."

Feel bad when you stub your toe. And then remember there are people who have no feet.

Or sit tight and confident with your righteous indignation about how all those smelly infected sick dirty homeless people dare to look you in the eye. Because that's your choice.

.......... and that, Jazuela, is an excellent post - thank you. There, but for the grace of God, go I. Yes, we were raised on that. No, we were not holy rollers or on our knees every Sunday, but we were raised to care for those who cannot care for themselves.

Does anyone remember when the powers that be decided to close down all the insane infirmaries and send all those poor souls out onto the streets?, well I do and many of them ended up living on the streets and under bridges, and the "sane" homeless people took care of the "insane" homeless people. Most of the insane were actually medically diagnosable; i.e. people who had had severe nervous breakdowns, people who were "hearing voices" - actually schizophrenic, people with bi-polar which was not diagnosed fully until quite recently, and so many other mental illnesses.

It is so easy for us who have been fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to get through life with a good living and to be able to retire with grace, but what about the people who cannot get through life, who are totally addicted to pills, who do suffer with mental problems and nobody cares, not even their families.

In countries like ours where the wealthy are filthy rich couldn't we make group homes for people so that they could have a bed and a shower before they have to face their hellish days just trying to get through until they can come back to the home at night for a decent meal and a clean bed?

You can label me whatever you like ........ a bleeding heart liberal or some other name, but I would rather you label me with being a caring person who bleeds when they see the injustices in this world.

[perrjojo]

This is one of those situations where folks think what they think. It doesn’t mater what you say, they most likely won’t budge from their current opinion. ..Kinda like politics.

[Deseylou]

If I have singles I was give $2.
If it’s a scammer, I haven’t lost much.
If it’s for real, it can help buy a snack.

[ColdNoMore]

.......... and that, Jazuela, is an excellent post - thank you. There, but for the grace of God, go I. Yes, we were raised on that. No, we were not holy rollers or on our knees every Sunday, but we were raised to care for those who cannot care for themselves.

Does anyone remember when the powers that be decided to close down all the insane infirmaries and send all those poor souls out onto the streets?, well I do and many of them ended up living on the streets and under bridges, and the "sane" homeless people took care of the "insane" homeless people. Most of the insane were actually medically diagnosable; i.e. people who had had severe nervous breakdowns, people who were "hearing voices" - actually schizophrenic, people with bi-polar which was not diagnosed fully until quite recently, and so many other mental illnesses.

It is so easy for us who have been fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to get through life with a good living and to be able to retire with grace, but what about the people who cannot get through life, who are totally addicted to pills, who do suffer with mental problems and nobody cares, not even their families.

In countries like ours where the wealthy are filthy rich couldn't we make group homes for people so that they could have a bed and a shower before they have to face their hellish days just trying to get through until they can come back to the home at night for a decent meal and a clean bed?

You can label me whatever you like ........ a bleeding heart liberal or some other name, but I would rather you label me with being a caring person who bleeds when they see the injustices in this world.

Excellent posts by BOTH...you and Jazuela. :thumbup:

As for the underlined above...count me in that camp.

I personally find it telling, that we have this thread whereby a lot of criticism and broad-brush negative painting is going on about homeless people, while simultaneously in another thread...we have some who are not-so-subtly patting themselves on the back about their wealth. :ohdear:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

True story about a specific homeless person, because Madelaine Amee expresses the exact situation I was involved in, in Boston (people made homeless as a result of mental hospitals being shut down).

There was a guy everyone called Skip. His real name was Kenny, and he was often referred to as OT, which stood for "Out To..(lunch)."

Kenny had some significant mental illness. This was also when "paranoid schizophrenic" was an actual diagnosis, I believe that has changed since then. He also suffered from delusions and multiple personalities. He would disappear for a month, and show up in the middle of winter in Harvard Square stinking like a hobo, wearing plastic bags over bare feet.

Eventually he'd get help finding his parents' home, and he'd get the medication he needed, change of clothes, food. But he was an adult, and his parents both worked, and couldn't be his keeper 24/7 so they had to let him leave. He HAD been declared mentally incompetent but as I said - the hospital closed and they let him out. Anyone whose illness could be managed via medication was left to their own devices, even if part of the problem was that one of their personalities wasn't aware that the body was in need of medication.

Kenny was actually incredibly smart. He spoke several languages and had, at one point, been granted a full 4-year scholarship to Harvard. By the time I met him for the first time he was in his early 30's.

As a busker, I often had to leave my "spot" to go to the bathroom, but that usually meant having to lose that spot to whoever was waiting for me to leave. One time I was down in the Harvard Square Red Line, playing my guitar, and Kenny showed up. He stood by the wall silent and stoic til I was finished singing, and approached me. He told me he was Secret Service, and that he was sent to protect me and I shouldn't worry because he'd keep me safe.

I'd seen this personality of his before, and it was mostly harmless and always entertaining. So I told him I needed him to guard my guitar and the money in the case while I called the President upstairs about a mission. Of course, he complied. I went up to the coffee shop's bathroom, bought a couple of coffees, came back and he was playing my guitar and singing Case of You by Joni Mitchell. His voice was so soulful and heartfelt I could only just stand there and cry.

Kenny died several years ago, and the majority of the Harvard Square "street community" came together to mourn his passing. This included all the employees of the stores in the Square, the guy at the NewsStand, other street musicians and artists and performers, Harvard University professors, and the church deacon.

He was so well loved. And he was homeless. And it angers me when people assume homeless people mostly "choose" to be that way. He was one of dozens of homeless or near-homeless "street people" I knew, during the early 1980's. They all had a story. Some were grifters. Most were not.

[graciegirl]

This is one of those situations where folks think what they think. It doesn’t mater what you say, they most likely won’t budge from their current opinion. ..Kinda like politics.

Amen.

[manaboutown]

Bradenton business owner offers homeless man job paying $15 an hour, when man refuses, tables are turned (https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/caught-on-camera-business-owner-offers-homeless-man-job-paying-15-an-hour-when-man-refuses-tables-are-turned/)

Fake homeless beggars. Some even own nice houses! Fake Homeless People CAUGHT On Camera And EXPOSED! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbYRqSeqJIg)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Fake homeless beggars. Some even own nice houses! Fake Homeless People CAUGHT On Camera And EXPOSED! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbYRqSeqJIg)

Yes we had one near where I worked, he used to stand on the center island of a main road near the highway exit with his homeless vet sign. He'd been arrested a couple of times and eventually his situation was given local newspaper coverage. Turned out he had a home, was actually fairly well to do, but incredibly eccentric. They didn't say *why* he would go out begging like that. Like, what his own reasoning was for it. Did he forget he wasn't homeless? Was he mentally ill and was living in some past decade when he actually was homeless, maybe?? Was he trying to make a political statement? Was it a social sciences test? I never learned the answer to the why of it.

He didn't make a lot of money at that spot but he had other spots he'd go to during the week as well. Very strange man, but harmless.

There was also a guy who used to come to my job, who everyone assumed was homeless. Turned out he was one of the wealthiest people in town, he was just super grungy and drove a beat-up car because, he said, it worked just fine and there was no reason to replace it yet.

[Velvet]

True story about a specific homeless person, because Madelaine Amee expresses the exact situation I was involved in, in Boston (people made homeless as a result of mental hospitals being shut down).

There was a guy everyone called Skip. His real name was Kenny, and he was often referred to as OT, which stood for "Out To..(lunch)."

Kenny had some significant mental illness. This was also when "paranoid schizophrenic" was an actual diagnosis, I believe that has changed since then. He also suffered from delusions and multiple personalities. He would disappear for a month, and show up in the middle of winter in Harvard Square stinking like a hobo, wearing plastic bags over bare feet.

Eventually he'd get help finding his parents' home, and he'd get the medication he needed, change of clothes, food. But he was an adult, and his parents both worked, and couldn't be his keeper 24/7 so they had to let him leave. He HAD been declared mentally incompetent but as I said - the hospital closed and they let him out. Anyone whose illness could be managed via medication was left to their own devices, even if part of the problem was that one of their personalities wasn't aware that the body was in need of medication.

Kenny was actually incredibly smart. He spoke several languages and had, at one point, been granted a full 4-year scholarship to Harvard. By the time I met him for the first time he was in his early 30's.

As a busker, I often had to leave my "spot" to go to the bathroom, but that usually meant having to lose that spot to whoever was waiting for me to leave. One time I was down in the Harvard Square Red Line, playing my guitar, and Kenny showed up. He stood by the wall silent and stoic til I was finished singing, and approached me. He told me he was Secret Service, and that he was sent to protect me and I shouldn't worry because he'd keep me safe.

I'd seen this personality of his before, and it was mostly harmless and always entertaining. So I told him I needed him to guard my guitar and the money in the case while I called the President upstairs about a mission. Of course, he complied. I went up to the coffee shop's bathroom, bought a couple of coffees, came back and he was playing my guitar and singing Case of You by Joni Mitchell. His voice was so soulful and heartfelt I could only just stand there and cry.

Kenny died several years ago, and the majority of the Harvard Square "street community" came together to mourn his passing. This included all the employees of the stores in the Square, the guy at the NewsStand, other street musicians and artists and performers, Harvard University professors, and the church deacon.

He was so well loved. And he was homeless. And it angers me when people assume homeless people mostly "choose" to be that way. He was one of dozens of homeless or near-homeless "street people" I knew, during the early 1980's. They all had a story. Some were grifters. Most were not.

What a beautiful, touching story!

[Chi-Town]

Nice message:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190728/ae8c67d70fc2df30b7dbf0c57537cbce.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Rango]

Moderator, please move to "non Villages' forum Thank you

[Bucco]

In my post #47, I noted about income inequality and its relationship to the homeless.

Not sure if this thread is simply personal experiences or a serious discussion of this HUGE problem in our country, but for those who wish to understand where our economic systems are taking us as a country.

I offer

"Billionaire Marc Benioff recently put his vast wealth to work on a cause that is plaguing his hometown of San Francisco, donating $30 million to the University of California-San Francisco to study the causes of homelessness.

The city has experienced a boom in wealth thanks to the massive tech companies that are headquartered there yet homelessness has skyrocketed as rents continue to climb, leaving an estimated 7,500 people in the city without a home."


With income inequality rising to the same levels as the Gilded Age of the 1920s, which was of course followed by the Great Depression, even billionaires are sounding the alarm on the possible side effects coming from when so few people control so much wealth. According to a recent paper by University of California-Berkeley professor Gabriel Zucman, the top 1% in the country own 40% of the country's wealth.

Even billionaires agree that our wealth inequality is unsustainable - Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/even-billionaires-agree-that-our-wealth-inequality-is-unsustainable-2019-5)

What Does America's Top 5% Think About Income Inequality? (https://www.forbes.com/sites/traversmark/2019/07/23/what-does-americas-top-5-think-about-income-inequality/#650e4ac51b68)

If you have a serious interest in this critical and looming problem, then these are a start in reading. If the interest is simply to demean those on the streets, your targets are CERTAINLY going to grow in numbers

[Number 10 GI]

Do you have some type of proof or citation, that San Francisco (or any city for that matter)...spends $300M on 5,000 people?

Do you have some type of proof or citation that disproves that San Francisco (or any city for that matter)… spends $300M on 5,000 people?

[BobnBev]

"Billionaire Marc Benioff recently put his vast wealth to work on a cause that is plaguing his hometown of San Francisco, donating $30 million to the University of California-San Francisco to study the causes of homelessness.

Sounds like a tax writeoff to me. That money could be put to much better use.

[anothersteve]

"Billionaire Marc Benioff recently put his vast wealth to work on a cause that is plaguing his hometown of San Francisco, donating $30 million to the University of California-San Francisco to study the causes of homelessness.

Sounds like a tax writeoff to me. That money could be put to much better use.

Yep...30mil to "study" the cause of homelessness? in San Fran? I don't get it. That money sure could be better spent to clean up that crap hole first, meaning spending on getting the homeless off the streets first and helping them. To hell with the "studies".
Steve

[Bucco]

"Billionaire Marc Benioff recently put his vast wealth to work on a cause that is plaguing his hometown of San Francisco, donating $30 million to the University of California-San Francisco to study the causes of homelessness.

Sounds like a tax writeoff to me. That money could be put to much better use.

So you read the links, and hopefully more, and your takeaway is your post.

Income inequality is not good...perhaps we, here in The Villages and older, MAYBE need not worry, but you have children and grandchildren I assume. Maybe read up for them.

Homeless folks are one thing but read what economists nomists, financial folks, investors, etc about the path we are on.

It is not the dreaded "S" word for certain, and that is made clear in one of the links I provided. That seems to be the knee jerk reaction on here, and it is far from that.

[graciegirl]

Everyone has their own personal value system.

Everyone thinks they have the right and moral answer.

It is pointless to argue about what and when and how to do good and what and who is better and who is right and who is wrong.

Everyone dislikes being lectured to and told they are wrong.

Only God knows our hearts and our motives for any deeds we do...and there are those who don't agree with that either.

Some people could make others mad about almost any subject and they do not like to be disagreed with and if someone makes a point then immediately they appear to be a victim.

[Number 10 GI]

My brother was paranoid schizophrenic. Our parents took him out of grade school in the 4th grade because he just wasn't up to the task of learning and had problems with his teachers and fellow students. He was very difficult to deal with. Back then there weren't any options for children like him other than mental institutions. All his life he worked at hard physical labor jobs, but he worked every day and was never without work. He worked until his health failed and he couldn't physically do it any more. Luckily he was at retirement age and could draw social security. Because of his mental condition he had no friends or social life but he didn't resort to drugs or alcohol as an escape from his reality. He could only read at the 3rd grade level and his writing ability was far less than that but he held a job. No I don't give money to panhandlers.

[Bucco]

You folks are discussing the value of hard work...I agree.

You are speaking to giving or not giving.

As I said, I was presenting one of the issues involved, the historical results of income inequality. and how those in the know see it.

Sorry, you all can go back to whatever.. sorry to interrupt.

[Velvet]

Poverty is such a complex issue. I agree with studying the causes of poverty further in order to see what more can we do about it.

Eg. Economist can look at the advantages of free trade. Possibly, if each country produced where they have their relative advantage and then traded with the other countries each producing in their area of relative advantage. There would be all around more to share. Etc etc.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Poverty is such a complex issue. I agree with studying the causes of poverty further in order to see what more can we do about it.

Eg. Economist can look at the advantages of free trade. Possibly, if each country produced where they have their relative advantage and then traded with the other countries each producing in their area of relative advantage. There would be all around more to share. Etc etc.

Poverty isn't the only cause of homelessness. There are people who have money, who could even probably afford to buy a house, but because of mental conditions are unable to cope with "normal" life and end up homeless as a result. My friend Skip/Kenny was one of those. He wasn't wealthy, but his parents were both professionals as I understand it, and could afford to help him. He was mentally incapable of accepting the help longer than a few days every few months.

[ColdNoMore]

Poverty isn't the only cause of homelessness. There are people who have money, who could even probably afford to buy a house, but because of mental conditions are unable to cope with "normal" life and end up homeless as a result. My friend Skip/Kenny was one of those. He wasn't wealthy, but his parents were both professionals as I understand it, and could afford to help him. He was mentally incapable of accepting the help longer than a few days every few months.

But, but, but, it's much easier for some to lump all homeless into a single bucket of... "they're just lazy and trying to get handouts." :oops:

For a lot of folks, it falsely assuages ones selfish justification to look down their noses at the less fortunate, particularly toward those who who are brown and black...thus perpetuating the institutional discrimination to which they either overtly or secretly support.

Based on my anecdotal experience of a lot of people I know, the wish of a 'race war' is shockingly embraced...by more people than one would expect from the citizens of this great country. :ohdear:

[Bucco]

But, but, but, it's much easier for some to lump all homeless into a single bucket of... "they're just lazy and trying to get handouts." :oops:

For a lot of folks, it falsely assuages ones selfish justification to look down their noses at the less fortunate, particularly toward those who who are brown and black...thus perpetuating the institutional discrimination to which they either overtly or secretly support.

Based on my anecdotal experience of a lot of people I know, the wish of a 'race war' is shockingly embraced...by more people than one would expect from the citizens of this great country. :ohdear:



"Capitalism must be reformed because it’s not producing enough opportunities for most Americans, creating an income gap that threatens to spark conflict, Ray Dalio, the Bridgewater Associates co-chairman, said in an interview "

"“If you look at history, if you have a group of people who have very different economic conditions, and you have an economic downturn, you have conflict.”

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-07/dalio-says-capitalism-s-income-inequality-is-national-emergency)

[graciegirl]

Insert sock in mouth. Yours? Theirs? Both.

[Bucco]

Insert sock in mouth. Yours? Theirs? Both.

Raymond Dalio (born August 8, 1949) is an American billionaire investor, hedge fund manager, and philanthropist.[3] Dalio is the founder of investment firm Bridgewater Associates, one of the world's largest hedge funds.[4] Bloomberg ranked him as the world's 58th wealthiest person in June 2019.[5]....


I am sure sarcasm will not affect him, nor any of the hundreds of economists, financial experts, etc who warn of coming dire circumstances should this problem not be addressed, or in those who offer sarcasm.....even awareness.

Many are warned about Soc....that is a word that many are being fed, yet, this problem has zero do with such a concept. The roots of our Great Depression had this same look, and it did not involve such movements, but today it seems we must label wat people say despite the lack of facts to support.

This WILL affect your children and grand children. In the future.