Cheating on our Insulation

[Fast Freddy]

I had a company come out and blow insulation into my lanai today. He was nice enough to fill in other areas which were only 10 inches, or equivalent to an R10. He said this 'cheating' is common with the developer insulation companies in TV.
They blow the required amount in the visible areas for the inspectors who generally do not climb into the attic for the full insulation inspection, he said they look at the near-by areas.
Our house was built in 2012.
I doubt if the insulation personnel care about saving money for the developer but getting the job done quicker or if they are over-loaded may be the incentive to blow much less and go.

[billethkid]

Very easy to identify who that contractor was via the warranty department.

It is a safe bet the "developer" has no idea that contractors may be cheating.

[manaboutown]

Why am I not surprised?

The general contractor should have checked the sub's work prior to inspection. The inspector did not do his job either.

Gotta meet that closing deadline on the nose!

Haste makes waste, at least for the buyer.

[DangeloInspections]

We do find areas of inadequate insulation quite often on our one year warranty inspections. We also find areas of displaced batt insulation. When we do our inspections we spend quality time trying to get to ALL areas of the attic we can. We take plenty of pictures to prove insulation levels in all accessible areas of the attics. We also look for many other attic issues, like broken trusses, electrical and plumbing and in some cases gas line and venting issues.

We also are trained in the use of our Thermal Imaging cameras, an expensive piece of equipment that allows us to often find areas of missing insulation even in areas where we may not be able to get to. We document all these findings.

Sometimes insulation settles, sometimes aftermarket contractors disturb the insulation and compromise the insulation levels in the home.

Sadly, some inspectors do not do this. Some never even go in the attic, or go past the small area of the garage. We are not like that. As I stated before....we try our best to get to every nook and cranny of every attic and take pictures of all areas.

I am not saying these areas of insulation are done intentionally by the contractors....I am just stating the fact that it DOES happen. We have actually inspected a few homes where the insulation was completely forgotten....none at all.

This is why in our opinion it is very important to have a quality full home inspection done, especially within the warranty period, so these issues if found can be corrected without costing the homeowner any money.

Respectfully,

Frank D'Angelo

[Velvet]

Unacceptable! Please follow up on the warranty for the house. This practice needs to be brought to attention. It was a good thing you caught it.

[graciegirl]

Unacceptable! Please follow up on the warranty for the house. This practice needs to be brought to attention. It was a good thing you caught it.

We had one come to add insulation to a new room and he said he added insulation to the other areas because it was lacking and he was a good guy. My husband who knows our attic pretty well, doubted it.

People can tell you anything to make themselves and their company look good.

[Bogie Shooter]

Why am I not surprised?

The general contractor should have checked the sub's work prior to inspection. The inspector did not do his job either.

Gotta meet that closing deadline on the nose!

Haste makes waste, at least for the buyer.
/////

[Kilmacowen]

/////

I agree!

[Kerry Azz]

Why am I not surprised?

The general contractor should have checked the sub's work prior to inspection. The inspector did not do his job either.

Gotta meet that closing deadline on the nose!

Haste makes waste, at least for the buyer.
You’re 100% right the inspectors here are sub-par at best and most could care less it’s evident in every house if you know what your looking for. they’d never last up north!

[Martian]

We do find areas of inadequate insulation quite often on our one year warranty inspections. We also find areas of displaced batt insulation. When we do our inspections we spend quality time trying to get to ALL areas of the attic we can. We take plenty of pictures to prove insulation levels in all accessible areas of the attics. We also look for many other attic issues, like broken trusses, electrical and plumbing and in some cases gas line and venting issues.

We also are trained in the use of our Thermal Imaging cameras, an expensive piece of equipment that allows us to often find areas of missing insulation even in areas where we may not be able to get to. We document all these findings.

Sometimes insulation settles, sometimes aftermarket contractors disturb the insulation and compromise the insulation levels in the home.

Sadly, some inspectors do not do this. Some never even go in the attic, or go past the small area of the garage. We are not like that. As I stated before....we try our best to get to every nook and cranny of every attic and take pictures of all areas.

I am not saying these areas of insulation are done intentionally by the contractors....I am just stating the fact that it DOES happen. We have actually inspected a few homes where the insulation was completely forgotten....none at all.

This is why in our opinion it is very important to have a quality full home inspection done, especially within the warranty period, so these issues if found can be corrected without costing the homeowner any money.

Respectfully,

Frank D'Angelo

This is interesting and good information. Is there any documentation or information on what percentage of the homes you inspect have issues with the attic insulation?

[JoMar]

We do find areas of inadequate insulation quite often on our one year warranty inspections. We also find areas of displaced batt insulation. When we do our inspections we spend quality time trying to get to ALL areas of the attic we can. We take plenty of pictures to prove insulation levels in all accessible areas of the attics. We also look for many other attic issues, like broken trusses, electrical and plumbing and in some cases gas line and venting issues.

We also are trained in the use of our Thermal Imaging cameras, an expensive piece of equipment that allows us to often find areas of missing insulation even in areas where we may not be able to get to. We document all these findings.

Sometimes insulation settles, sometimes aftermarket contractors disturb the insulation and compromise the insulation levels in the home.

Sadly, some inspectors do not do this. Some never even go in the attic, or go past the small area of the garage. We are not like that. As I stated before....we try our best to get to every nook and cranny of every attic and take pictures of all areas.

I am not saying these areas of insulation are done intentionally by the contractors....I am just stating the fact that it DOES happen. We have actually inspected a few homes where the insulation was completely forgotten....none at all.

This is why in our opinion it is very important to have a quality full home inspection done, especially within the warranty period, so these issues if found can be corrected without costing the homeowner any money.

Respectfully,

Frank D'Angelo

Which is why we contracted with you when it was time for our inspection. One thing you missed in your post is that when you submitted your findings to the warranty department everything was corrected within 2 weeks from your report being filed.

[DangeloInspections]

Which is why we contracted with you when it was time for our inspection. One thing you missed in your post is that when you submitted your findings to the warranty department everything was corrected within 2 weeks from your report being filed.

Thank you JoMar...! Yes, that is correct...typically most everything detailed in the report is taken care of by the Warranty department within 2 weeks or so.

As to Martian's question..it is hard to say...but it is a common finding, I would say perhaps up to 25% of the homes. Thankfully, the latest studies from engineers say that there is not a huge difference in real energy savings between say an R-30 and an R-38. Of course, we still always document this when found because the paperwork says that the contract was for an R-38, so if there are any areas where we find less it will go in the report.

As I earlier said, the other common finding is if you have areas of Batt insulation that is displaced....the insulation is there, but if it is not placed and secured properly you could have voids in your insulation envelope. This also needs to be found and corrected.

Please do not get me wrong....The Villages builds a good home, and the Warranty department does a better job than many other builders and developments do......but think about it.... would we be as busy as we are doing Warranty inspections for folks if everyday we told them, "Hey, we did not find any issues.....just give me my check". We would be out of business in no time.

The reality is just the opposite. We do find issues. Everyday. Most of them are not serious, but still costly to have to repair yourselves....and sometimes we DO find more serious issues. Costly issues.

The reasons for this are complex. There are a few thousand homes being built every year...most of them within 2 months or so. Good skilled tradespeople are harder to find and keep. Everyone seems to be looking to hire more people.

If the average home needs like 20 inspections during the different phases of the home being built, and you take say 2000 homes times 20 inspections, that's 40,000 inspections your county has to do each year....just on new homes....not even counting remodeling, additions, etc. I'll just leave it at that.

Bottom line is that most all of our customers are surprised at what we do find and get corrected in their new home, and feel it is well worth the peace of mind it affords.

Hope this helps!

Frank D'Angelo, ACI

[karostay]

Funny health inspector find a cock roach at restaurant it makes for headline news
Building code infractions are passed over

[Martian]

Funny health inspector find a cock roach at restaurant it makes for headline news
Building code infractions are passed over

There are not 2,000 new restaurants per month, and only a small number (percentage) of people are affected by each restaurant.

[DangeloInspections]

Just to clarify....many issues we find are normal, and caused by settling, or perhaps a hastily driven nail, a plumbing fitting not tightened enough, a few exposed nails on the roof that could cause a leak, screw pops in the drywall, settling cracks, etc, etc. These are normal and NOT CODE violations specifically......some are aesthetic issues....but should still be found and repaired in a new home.

Yes, sometimes we do find more serious issues. We have had whole roofs replaced, A/C issues, Electrical issues, etc.

I just wanted to clarify that there is a large difference between Building Code violations and other issues that do need to be dealt with and repaired, but are not specifically Code Violations.

When you think of all the parts and systems in a home, all put together in 2 months it is an amazing feat. There will be some issues. If they are found and reported within the year, (in most cases), they will be repaired at no cost to you. Consider us like the last "quality control" check for your home.


Frank

[crimeslayer]

Frank inspected our home and found that some insulation was needed in the attic. Contacted Warranty Dept and corrected within a week! Frank D and sons are the best!!!!

[karostay]

There are not 2,000 new restaurants per month, and only a small number (percentage) of people are affected by each restaurant.
:what:

[Fast Freddy]

"Very easy to identify who that contractor was via the warranty department."
Very good suggestion and I will follow up on it. And by the way, I was in the garage and up on the ladder especially when he was blowing 'other' areas, I feel certain that he did add insulation in low areas as I watched his blowing tube. I inspected with an LED flash light after everything settled and the insulation appears much higher. I do believe his comments.

[DangeloInspections]

To add some clarification here.....The Villages typically uses blown in fiberglas on all flat ceiling surfaces, and Batt insulation in vertical or peaked areas. This does vary.

A few areas in The Villages did experiment with foam icynene insulation in some Villas a few years ago. They no longer do that.

The R- value differs a bit with the different manufacturers, but the white blown in fiberglas has an APPROXIMATE R value of 2.5-3.0 per inch.....not 1 per inch. If it were 1 per inch, to have an R-38 you would have 38 inches of insulation....an absurd amount. To have the now standard R-38 you will see insulation levels at about 13-14 inches.

The Villages used to blow up to an R-30. Then they started blowing an R-30 AND using the roof sheathing with a Radiant barrier to achieve an energy rating. Folks complained about cell phone reception with the Radiant barriers........so NOW they use regular OSB roof sheathing and blow 13-14 inches of white fiberglas insulation giving you an R-38. All the new batt insulation they now use is also an R-38, and is marked accordingly.

Lastly, The Villages does not insulate above unconditioned space, so the Lanai's and the garages are not insulated. When someone pays an aftermarket insulation company to insulate above their lanai, those installers need to walk back there to do it. the better installers when backing out of the attic should always blow over their footprints, so it looks like they were never there. This is what one may see when they think they are blowing in other areas.

Hope this helps.

Frank D.

[600th Photo Sq]

Thank you JoMar...! Yes, that is correct...typically most everything detailed in the report is taken care of by the Warranty department within 2 weeks or so.

As to Martian's question..it is hard to say...but it is a common finding, I would say perhaps up to 25% of the homes. Thankfully, the latest studies from engineers say that there is not a huge difference in real energy savings between say an R-30 and an R-38. Of course, we still always document this when found because the paperwork says that the contract was for an R-38, so if there are any areas where we find less it will go in the report.

As I earlier said, the other common finding is if you have areas of Batt insulation that is displaced....the insulation is there, but if it is not placed and secured properly you could have voids in your insulation envelope. This also needs to be found and corrected.

Please do not get me wrong....The Villages builds a good home, and the Warranty department does a better job than many other builders and developments do......but think about it.... would we be as busy as we are doing Warranty inspections for folks if everyday we told them, "Hey, we did not find any issues.....just give me my check". We would be out of business in no time.

The reality is just the opposite. We do find issues. Everyday. Most of them are not serious, but still costly to have to repair yourselves....and sometimes we DO find more serious issues. Costly issues.

The reasons for this are complex. There are a few thousand homes being built every year...most of them within 2 months or so. Good skilled tradespeople are harder to find and keep. Everyone seems to be looking to hire more people.

If the average home needs like 20 inspections during the different phases of the home being built, and you take say 2000 homes times 20 inspections, that's 40,000 inspections your county has to do each year....just on new homes....not even counting remodeling, additions, etc. I'll just leave it at that.

Bottom line is that most all of our customers are surprised at what we do find and get corrected in their new home, and feel it is well worth the peace of mind it affords.

Hope this helps!

Frank D'Angelo, ACI

Frank,

In your opinion does insulating a Garage Door make sense.

[DangeloInspections]

Great question.....usually yes, especially if your garage door faces south, but anything other than north I would say yes. Now understand, in doing this you are NOT insulating the garage...we actually often do not recommend that. BUT...if your garage door is hot to the touch, you can usually lower the temperature of your garage by 10-15 degrees if you insulate the garage DOORS.

What you are doing is stopping the radiant heat build up in the garage. In Florida your garage will always get hot...especially with driving in hot engines, etc. But...it is a good thing to cut that RADIANT heat build up from the garage doors.

Sadly, The Villages seems to make it a bit difficult to order your garage doors already insulated. They use the usual builder grade garage door, when an insulated one from the factory does not cost much more.

Hope that helps!

Frank

[Bjeanj]

You’re 100% right the inspectors here are sub-par at best and most could care less it’s evident in every house if you know what your looking for. they’d never last up north!

I tend to take issue when someone paints almost anything with such a broad brush. Questions generated include:
Does this person know every inspector operating in TV?
What qualifications does this person have to evaluate inspectors?
What qualifications does this person have to evaluate the end product?
Has this person personally inspected “every house” to find deficiencies?

I personally don’t know anything about the quality of construction or inspectors here. So I don’t comment on this topic.