DOG WALKERS The Courts are NOT A DOG PARK

[Rosebud1949]

Please all dog owners, you have a number of dog parks or golf cart trails to walk your dogs The Tennis and Pickleball Courts are NOT for your use. Again on Sunday at Bacall I had to ask an owner to leave the courts. It does not say you cannot walk your dogs in the court was the first reply. You have plenty of Dog Parks we said, dont want to use them was the reply.. Well the courts are not a dog toilet. We should not have to remove poop from the courts before we play. Nor should we have to wonder what the balls are landing in before we pick them up ti use them.

[Chellybean]

its called Village entitlement!

[Martian]

I am a dog owner, and my first thought is I agree with you. I am not aware of the Courts layout, we have only been here 4 weeks and haven't made it there yet. My feeling is that there are limited restrictions on walking our dogs, but, there are some, and then there is also common courtesy.

If the dogs were on leash and walked around the outside of the Court in a "common" area, that is one thing, but if the dog was being walked in an area that the ball could reasonably be expected to land/roll, then I have to agree with you that it would be common courtesy to walk someplace else.

Aren't the pickle ball courts fenced? Was the dog inside the fence? If so, I would put in a suggestion that the rules be changed to exclude dogs and pets from the fenced area.

[NotGolfer]

Loss of common sense and NOT entitlement. When did it become a "thing" to think our pets/animals could accompany us everywhere we go??

[Chellybean]

I am a dog owner, and my first thought is I agree with you. I am not aware of the Courts layout, we have only been here 4 weeks and haven't made it there yet. My feeling is that there are limited restrictions on walking our dogs, but, there are some, and then there is also common courtesy.

If the dogs were on leash and walked around the outside of the Court in a "common" area, that is one thing, but if the dog was being walked in an area that the ball could reasonably be expected to land/roll, then I have to agree with you that it would be common courtesy to walk someplace else.

Aren't the pickle ball courts fenced? Was the dog inside the fence? If so, I would put in a suggestion that the rules be changed to exclude dogs and pets from the fenced area.

Your reasonable attitude is applauded! HOWEVER!
You will learn that dog owners in your neighborhood will feel entitled to walk there dog on other peoples property to do there business.
This is a hot subject in this forum and i am a animal lover but do not want your dog on my property Period.

[billethkid]

When addressing an issue such as this I suggest a more accurate dialogue.
Some posts, including the OP address the subject preceded by the all inclusive categorization of "...all dog owners...".

Which is incorrect. There is a small percentage of dog owners who fit the issue being addressed. And that small percentage include the entitled.

It is typical, unfortunately, to address a subject with the broad, across the board, general over view.

The 95%++ of us dog owners who are and continue to be responsible, rule/law abiding pet owners request the subject be addressed more accurately by making a slight change to the subject........"...some dog owners...".

:duck:

[Martian]

Your reasonable attitude is applauded! HOWEVER!
You will learn that dog owners in your neighborhood will feel entitled to walk there dog on other peoples property to do there business.
This is a hot subject in this forum and i am a animal lover but do not want your dog on my property Period.

I understand your not wanting our dogs on your property. And I can not speak to "all dog owners", but I can assure you that if you see us walking our dogs on your property, a simple comment that you would appreciate us not walking there would be sufficient and we would avoid your property in the future.

In our neighborhood the covenant is pretty clear (could be better) in stating that if our dog poops on your property we are supposed to (expected to) pick it up. This to me is a pretty clear indication that the rules intend to allow us to walk our dogs at least along the edge of your property at the road.

That said, I also believe it is not unreasonable for you to not want that to happen, and as I said, a simple "please keep your dog off my property" would suffice to get us to stop trespassing.

Sadly, many people are not as interested in peaceful co-existence... This whole "having neighbors" thing is new to us, coming from 11 acres where the closest neighbor being over 1/4 to 1/2 mile away. We are trying to learn, but I do think some give and take on both sides can make things better.

[Kahuna32162]

:1rotfl:

:popcorn:

Oh Boy, a poop thread!!

[Mortal1]

I understand your not wanting our dogs on your property. And I can not speak to "all dog owners", but I can assure you that if you see us walking our dogs on your property, a simple comment that you would appreciate us not walking there would be sufficient and we would avoid your property in the future.

In our neighborhood the covenant is pretty clear (could be better) in stating that if our dog poops on your property we are supposed to (expected to) pick it up. This to me is a pretty clear indication that the rules intend to allow us to walk our dogs at least along the edge of your property at the road.

That said, I also believe it is not unreasonable for you to not want that to happen, and as I said, a simple "please keep your dog off my property" would suffice to get us to stop trespassing.

Sadly, many people are not as interested in peaceful co-existence... This whole "having neighbors" thing is new to us, coming from 11 acres where the closest neighbor being over 1/4 to 1/2 mile away. We are trying to learn, but I do think some give and take on both sides can make things better.

all Village restrictions, but also county and state restrictions that you a)do not let your dog go on private property for any reason b)the leash be no more than 6 feet long(look it up...I did).

If you're taking your dog for a "walk" then that is it's exercise and not to be combined with relieving itself unless it's on common property or a dog park. And no matter where your dog poops it is illegal to leave it no matter where that is. I don't want dog/pet urine on my lawn. That too is illegal...look it up.

You can be fined...it isn't as cheap as picking it up.

[Martian]

When addressing an issue such as this I suggest a more accurate dialogue.
Some posts, including the OP address the subject preceded by the all inclusive categorization of "...all dog owners...".

Which is incorrect. There is a small percentage of dog owners who fit the issue being addressed. And that small percentage include the entitled.

It is typical, unfortunately, to address a subject with the broad, across the board, general over view.

The 95%++ of us dog owners who are and continue to be responsible, rule/law abiding pet owners request the subject be addressed more accurately by making a slight change to the subject........"...some dog owners...".

:duck:

I am a dog owner (2 large dogs) and I did not take the original post as accusing all dog owners of this, but as a comment directed to all dog owners. The use of CAPITALS in the title gave me a sense of the OP's frustration over what appears from their description to be an unreasonable dog owner (we haven't heard the other side yet - so, we don't know anything for sure).

It is certainly easy for tempers to flare when irritations occur over and over and communications don't seem to make progress.

I completely agree with you that the majority of dog owners are responsible and want to "get along" with their neighbors.

I will go the other way also, and say that the majority (98.324%) of residents that do not own dogs are easy to get along with and don't mind dogs walking on their grass, or park, or wherever.

And then there are the reasonable people that just don't want the animals on their property. Guess what everyone, it's THEIR property. There is nothing unreasonable about their desire for whatever reason.

There was a breakout of a very contagious disease in California a while back (about the time we got our Labrador). The disease was transmitted from breeder to breeder by people carrying the contagion on their shoes. Our breeder went to great lengths to ban anyone that did not have their feet sterilized before entering her property - that was a "reasonable" thing to do in her case.

My point is we are all in this together, it will be a much more enjoyable ride if we try to get along.

[Martian]

all Village restrictions, but also county and state restrictions that you a)do not let your dog go on private property for any reason b)the leash be no more than 6 feet long(look it up...I did).

If you're taking your dog for a "walk" then that is it's exercise and not to be combined with relieving itself unless it's on common property or a dog park. And no matter where your dog poops it is illegal to leave it no matter where that is. I don't want dog/pet urine on my lawn. That too is illegal...look it up.

You can be fined...it isn't as cheap as picking it up.

I feel sorry this is ruining your retirement.

[Chellybean]

I understand your not wanting our dogs on your property. And I can not speak to "all dog owners", but I can assure you that if you see us walking our dogs on your property, a simple comment that you would appreciate us not walking there would be sufficient and we would avoid your property in the future.

In our neighborhood the covenant is pretty clear (could be better) in stating that if our dog poops on your property we are supposed to (expected to) pick it up. This to me is a pretty clear indication that the rules intend to allow us to walk our dogs at least along the edge of your property at the road.

That said, I also believe it is not unreasonable for you to not want that to happen, and as I said, a simple "please keep your dog off my property" would suffice to get us to stop trespassing.

Sadly, many people are not as interested in peaceful co-existence... This whole "having neighbors" thing is new to us, coming from 11 acres where the closest neighbor being over 1/4 to 1/2 mile away. We are trying to learn, but I do think some give and take on both sides can make things better.

all Village restrictions, but also county and state restrictions that you a)do not let your dog go on private property for any reason b)the leash be no more than 6 feet long(look it up...I did).

If you're taking your dog for a "walk" then that is it's exercise and not to be combined with relieving itself unless it's on common property or a dog park. And no matter where your dog poops it is illegal to leave it no matter where that is. I don't want dog/pet urine on my lawn. That too is illegal...look it up.

You can be fined...it isn't as cheap as picking it up.


Unfortunately you are still drinking the Kool-Aid you will understand what everyone is saying as time goes on.
The simple question is why does dog owner feel they have the right to come on others property, this is why there are dog parks!

[Martian]

[B]
Unfortunately you are still drinking the Kool-Aid you will understand what everyone is saying as time goes on.
The simple question is why does dog owner feel they have the right to come on others property, this is why there are dog parks!

Well, the reason I believe I can walk my dog on your property is as follows:

1.There is an easement on your property along the road, look at your site plan. It is a public easement. It is not clearly indicated what that easement is to be used for (we will get to that)

2. You also agreed to covenants when you moved in. Those covenants clearly state that dogs are allowed in the villages. It also clearly states if when walking those pets they defecate on someones property the pet owner responsible to clean it up.

This is another example of poor wording which is going to make your case even harder to win in court, since if I am walking someone else's dog, I am NOT responsible to clean up after it, the owner is responsible. So, you will have to take that up with the owner. This is a good reason for me to walk my wife's dog and she should walk my dog. Are we getting silly enough yet?

This covenant says that I can walk my dogs in the neighborhood, and it is EXPECTED that the dogs will poop on peoples property. The reason it says I can walk my dogs on your property is that it doesn't state I can't, and does state the expectation that I will. This is known as implicit permission, by defining action to be taken in the case of something being that is permitted.

The covenant is not shy at saying things are NOT allowed, there are numerous examples of that. It does NOT say at any point that dogs can not be walked in the neighborhood. It states that when pets defecate on neighbors property what actions are to be taken.

This is the same thing as saying music must be "turned down" after (I think) 10 PM and until dawn. That gives implicit permission to play music loudly the rest of the time.

The covenants are very poorly worded. But, they do supersede local county laws (in most civil issues), since you agreed to them when you moved in.

3. I don't know about Sumter County laws and how they are written, but in most of the country, you will have difficult time charging someone with trespass without a "Private Property" sign clearly posted. I guess I don't have to mention that you are not allowed to post a private property sign in TV.

And finally I don't appreciate the insult of "drinking the cool aide" just because I disagree with your interpretation of how laws will be enforced. It is not conducive to a civil conversation or solving what is obviously a continuing issue among neighbors.

I could as just as well say you should stop eating the sour grapes.

[RedChariot]

all Village restrictions, but also county and state restrictions that you a)do not let your dog go on private property for any reason b)the leash be no more than 6 feet long(look it up...I did).

If you're taking your dog for a "walk" then that is it's exercise and not to be combined with relieving itself unless it's on common property or a dog park. And no matter where your dog poops it is illegal to leave it no matter where that is. I don't want dog/pet urine on my lawn. That too is illegal...look it up.

You can be fined...it isn't as cheap as picking it up.

Can you provide the link that states those restrictions? I would love to have them in writing. I tried myself on the Sumter County web site to no avail. Been here 7 years and all dog owners in the neighborhood stop at my property (and other's) and allow their dog to use my private property as their bathroom. For the most part it is picked up. There is still excrement left behind. They have these leashes that extend many feet. It will never change here.

[Velvet]

Watching people walking their dogs sometimes makes me think some dog owners let their pets think for them.

[vintageogauge]

I don't mind dogs pooping on my lawn as long as it is picked up and their pee does not harm St. Augustine grass as my dog pees on ours a lot and never had a brown spot from it. On the other hand I'm really glad that there are no Canada Geese in Fenney as we live on water. Lived with those things for years in Ohio and they make a huge mess that dogs seem to want to roll in. I'll live with the occasional dog poop.

PS, I agree that they should not be off leash or in courts, etc. I quit telling people the rules as one lady gave me the finger, and a gentleman threatened me. Too many concealed carries in Florida to get involved anymore.

[Chellybean]

Can you provide the link that states those restrictions? I would love to have them in writing. I tried myself on the Sumter County web site to no avail. Been here 7 years and all dog owners in the neighborhood stop at my property (and other's) and allow their dog to use my private property as their bathroom. For the most part it is picked up. There is still excrement left behind. They have these leashes that extend many feet. It will never change here.

read 810.09 and call the police and they will be trespassed warned:the second time they will go bye bye in cuffs!

[Topspinmo]

I agree they should NOT be inside the courts either pickleball or tennis. Plenty areas to walk dog outside the fences and common areas. I once played tennis with guy that brought his Austrian terrier to courts with him. He told the dog to set and it never moved till he was done and they walked out together. I figure .001 percent of dogs are that well trained.

[Chellybean]

Well, the reason I believe I can walk my dog on your property is as follows:

1.There is an easement on your property along the road, look at your site plan. It is a public easement. It is not clearly indicated what that easement is to be used for (we will get to that)

2. You also agreed to covenants when you moved in. Those covenants clearly state that dogs are allowed in the villages. It also clearly states if when walking those pets they defecate on someones property the pet owner responsible to clean it up.

This is another example of poor wording which is going to make your case even harder to win in court, since if I am walking someone else's dog, I am NOT responsible to clean up after it, the owner is responsible. So, you will have to take that up with the owner. This is a good reason for me to walk my wife's dog and she should walk my dog. Are we getting silly enough yet?

This covenant says that I can walk my dogs in the neighborhood, and it is EXPECTED that the dogs will poop on peoples property. The reason it says I can walk my dogs on your property is that it doesn't state I can't, and does state the expectation that I will. This is known as implicit permission, by defining action to be taken in the case of something being that is permitted.

The covenant is not shy at saying things are NOT allowed, there are numerous examples of that. It does NOT say at any point that dogs can not be walked in the neighborhood. It states that when pets defecate on neighbors property what actions are to be taken.

This is the same thing as saying music must be "turned down" after (I think) 10 PM and until dawn. That gives implicit permission to play music loudly the rest of the time.

The covenants are very poorly worded. But, they do supersede local county laws (in most civil issues), since you agreed to them when you moved in.

3. I don't know about Sumter County laws and how they are written, but in most of the country, you will have difficult time charging someone with trespass without a "Private Property" sign clearly posted. I guess I don't have to mention that you are not allowed to post a private property sign in TV.

And finally I don't appreciate the insult of "drinking the cool aide" just because I disagree with your interpretation of how laws will be enforced. It is not conducive to a civil conversation or solving what is obviously a continuing issue among neighbors.

I could as just as well say you should stop eating the sour grapes.

OMG you better research 810.09. you do not have any rights in easements either. Good luck you will need it!

[PrudentLifer]

A dog needs only the smallest of areas to do its business. Do it at your home then go for a walk. We do.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

[vintageogauge]

read 810.09 and call the police and they will be trespassed warned:the second time they will go bye bye in cuffs!

That is not true. There are parties I know of that have had numerous complaints filed against them for exactly that and each time they call they are referred to animal control that does absolutely nothing, the police will not show up.

[Bogie Shooter]

I am a dog owner, and my first thought is I agree with you. I am not aware of the Courts layout, we have only been here 4 weeks and haven't made it there yet. My feeling is that there are limited restrictions on walking our dogs, but, there are some, and then there is also common courtesy.

If the dogs were on leash and walked around the outside of the Court in a "common" area, that is one thing, but if the dog was being walked in an area that the ball could reasonably be expected to land/roll, then I have to agree with you that it would be common courtesy to walk someplace else.

Aren't the pickle ball courts fenced? Was the dog inside the fence? If so, I would put in a suggestion that the rules be changed to exclude dogs and pets from the fenced area.

Changing rules probably will not change anything. If common sense doesn't work, why would a rule?

[Bogie Shooter]

[QUOTE=Martian;1686811]I am a dog owner (2 large dogs) and I did not take the original post as accusing all dog owners of this, but as a comment directed to all dog owners. The use of CAPITALS in the title gave me a sense of the OP's frustration over what appears from their description to be an unreasonable dog owner (we haven't heard the other side yet - so, we don't know anything for sure).

It is certainly easy for tempers to flare when irritations occur over and over and communications don't seem to make progress.

I completely agree with you that the majority of dog owners are responsible and want to "get along" with their neighbors.

I will go the other way also, and say that the majority (98.324%) of residents that do not own dogs are easy to get along with and don't mind dogs walking on their grass, or park, or wherever.

And then there are the reasonable people that just don't want the animals on their property. Guess what everyone, it's THEIR property. There is nothing unreasonable about their desire for whatever reason.

There was a breakout of a very contagious disease in California a while back (about the time we got our Labrador). The disease was transmitted from breeder to breeder by people carrying the contagion on their shoes. Our breeder went to great lengths to ban anyone that did not have their feet sterilized before entering her property - that was a "reasonable" thing to do in her case.

My point is we are all in this together, it will be a much more enjoyable ride if we try to get along.[/QUO
/////

[Chellybean]

That is not true. There are parties I know of that have had numerous complaints filed against them for exactly that and each time they call they are referred to animal control that does absolutely nothing, the police will not show up.

Not true you need to go to the Captain if LEO are not doing anything!
The dog is by himself then its animal control, if it is on a leach and controlled by the owner it is 810.09!

[Marathon Man]

I love dogs. My neighbors' dogs use our yard and it is fine with us. However, I feel the need to jump in here.

I have heard others claim that easements allow people to walk across your lawn. Easements allow utilites, etc access to install and maintain equipment, including pipes and wires. They do not allow just anyone onto your property.

The fact that dogs are allowed in TV, is not an indication that you can take them anywhere you want.

Thank you for your attention.

[billethkid]

I love dogs. My neighbors' dogs use our yard and it is fine with us. However, I feel the need to jump in here.

I have heard others claim that easements allow people to walk across your lawn. Easements allow utilites, etc access to install and maintain equipment, including pipes and wires. They do not allow just anyone onto your property.

The fact that dogs are allowed in TV, is not an indication that you can take them anywhere you want.

Thank you for your attention.

Thanks for saying what needed to be said!

[trichard]

Oh,oh! It’s the dog poop saga.

[Polar Bear]

...I have heard others claim that easements allow people to walk across your lawn. Easements allow utilites, etc access to install and maintain equipment, including pipes and wires. They do not allow just anyone onto your property...
Absolutely true.

Easements are always defined for specific uses by specific organizations. They in no way allow access by the general public to the private property ‘under’ the easement.

[PrudentLifer]

Frontage easements, typically a water main will add 6-7 feet to your maintenance frontage. That easement is no way the homeowners property. Your survey and a tape measure will verify this.
The benefit to being on an easement side of the street is a greater front setback to the street and a longer driveway.
Still, no excuse for a dog walker not respecting what you maintain.

Corner house owners know this all to well thinking adding a pool or an extension will be allowed.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

[pauld315]

The best one my wife told me about this week was that she was playing pickleball and some lady brought her dog into the court area and she wanted to play! She asked people who were not actively playing at the time if they would hold the dog's leash (on the court where people wait to play) while she played. Nobody agreed so she hooked the leash to the fence and went out to play. The entire time she was playing the dog barked and barked and barked. My wife finished up her game and left. Unbelievable ! Actually worse than the couple I saw at the square with their large dog on a leash dancing. A couple years ago, I saw an elderly gentleman fall over a dog at Lake Sumter Square because of the same thing.

I know you love your dogs but act a little sensible at least

[Chellybean]

i think reading some of these post in this thread says it all on what dog owners think there rights are.
The old saying goes you can't fix stupid!

[coffeebean]

You can be fined...it isn't as cheap as picking it up.

But....you can't pick up pet pee once the pet has peed on someone's lawn.

[coffeebean]

For the 33 years we had a dog (not the same one) and we always had the dogs relieve themselves in a potty area on our property. I cleaned out and maintained that potty area and the dogs had no problem at all relieving themselves there. I used a nice soft mulch so was comfortable on their paws so they looked forward to going in the potty area. When we walked the dogs, it was not for the intention of them to relieve themselves. The walk was strictly for exercise. Now there was a time or two when the dog did go potty while on the walk and it was quite unexpected. But......we always had a plastic bag to clean it up.

Just wondering why so many dog owners prefer to have their fur baby relieve themselves on other people's property or the easement that the property owner must maintain and not their own property? I just don't get it.

[rufflesmom]

I am in hysterics reading your quotes regarding the laws of the land! Every one of your points are blatant lies or just plain ignorance!Take your pick.[QUOTE=Martian;1686843]Well, the reason I believe I can walk my dog on your property is as follows:

1.There is an easement on your property along the road, look at your site plan. It is a public easement. It is not clearly indicated what that easement is to be used for (we will get to that)

***There is NO PUBLIC EASEMENT on homes in the Villages, it is an easement for UTILITIES, in case they need to get to their equipment for repair or emergency shutoffs/meter readings etc. NOT so that your dog can squat and poop on their lawns. The homeowner is the one that pays good money to maintain that “easement” as well as the rest of the lawn!

2. You also agreed to covenants when you moved in. Those covenants clearly state that dogs are allowed in the villages. It also clearly states if when walking those pets they defecate on someones property the pet owner responsible to clean it up.

***”Covenants have NOTHING to do with dogs pooping on someone else’s lawn! It merely means that Yes, you are allowed to have a dog if you live here, two in fact.

This is another example of poor wording which is going to make your case even harder to win in court, since if I am walking someone else's dog, I am NOT responsible to clean up after it, the owner is responsible. So, you will have to take that up with the owner. This is a good reason for me to walk my wife's dog and she should walk my dog. Are we getting silly enough yet?


***You are not responsible for cleaning up after your wife’s dog because you are not the owner??? And you say that would make it harder for the homeowner you violated to win in court? Oh would I just LOVE to be in the courtroom when you tell the judge that one! Lol!

This covenant says that I can walk my dogs in the neighborhood, and it is EXPECTED that the dogs will poop on peoples property. The reason it says I can walk my dogs on your property is that it doesn't state I can't, and does state the expectation that I will. This is known as implicit permission, by defining action to be taken in the case of something being that is permitted.

***You are trying to actually write that you have “permission” to trespass on someone else’s property merely because it is not explicitly written? Lol! Try that one out a few times buddy. If you’re lucky you might run fast enough in the other direction ****ing in your pants and praying the “homeowner” is a really bad shot! Again, go tell the judge why you are “allowed” to do so!

The covenant is not shy at saying things are NOT allowed, there are numerous examples of that. It does NOT say at any point that dogs can not be walked in the neighborhood. It states that when pets defecate on neighbors property what actions are to be taken.

This is the same thing as saying music must be "turned down" after (I think) 10 PM and until dawn. That gives implicit permission to play music loudly the rest of the time.

*** Here we go again...you believe you have ”permission” to play loud music and annoy anyone within earshot and you can’t be ordered to lower it down merely because it’s before 10 PM and until dawn? Boy, that “dawn” thing is WAY off! Well, wrong again my boy...!!
It’s called “Disturbing The Peace” for legal terminology. If an Officer or Sheriff shows up at your door and orders you to ”turn it down” as they have received a couple of complaints (usually at least 2 complaints will do it) and he or she has to return because you have failed to comply (Oh yeah, “Failure To Comply” is another violation) with such an order, you will 99% of the time be handed a nice little summons with a court date on it. If you ignore any of the above you will be handcuffed, patted down and placed in the back of a unit. You are headed to jail. If you fail to show up on your court date, or a lawyer that is representing you, a warrant will be issued for your arrest and, yes, again, on your way to jail.


The covenants are very poorly worded. But, they do supersede local county laws (in most civil issues), since you agreed to them when you moved in.

3. I don't know about Sumter County laws and how they are written, but in most of the country, you will have difficult time charging someone with trespass without a "Private Property" sign clearly posted. I guess I don't have to mention that you are not allowed to post a private property sign in TV.

***Wrong again! Read the above. I already covered trespass. No sign need be posted. You have NO right to trespass onto another’s land or home. The covenants of the Villages does NOT supercede ANY CRIMINAL LAW of any city or county in this country! Because all the points you tried to make here are just that. Criminal violations. You try to write as if you must know what your talking about so go ahead....keep trying to tell the nice folks here in the Villages how you can do what you want and get away with it! See how far you’ll get!!

I responded for one reason only. I cannot STAND someone that thinks they can walk on people because if you say it loud enough they will think it must be so. You are blithering about violating the law and talking about violating people’s rights and I wasn’t going to keep still when you knew none of it was true because I don’t think ANYBODY is that feeble minded.

And finally I don't appreciate the insult of "drinking the cool aide" just because I disagree with your interpretation of how laws will be enforced. It is not conducive to a civil conversation or solving what is obviously a continuing issue among neighbors.

***Your interpretation of the law you say? You don’t believe that any more than I do.

I could as just as well say you should stop eating the sour grapes.[/QUOTE

By the way, I am not only a dog lover but I am a dog owner. That is so you cannot try to say I must be a dog hater. Actually I’ve never met a bad dog, just not so good owner’s on occasion.

[Chellybean]

I am in hysterics reading your quotes regarding the laws of the land! Every one of your points are blatant lies or just plain ignorance!Take your pick.[QUOTE=Martian;1686843]Well, the reason I believe I can walk my dog on your property is as follows:

1.There is an easement on your property along the road, look at your site plan. It is a public easement. It is not clearly indicated what that easement is to be used for (we will get to that)

***There is NO PUBLIC EASEMENT on homes in the Villages, it is an easement for UTILITIES, in case they need to get to their equipment for repair or emergency shutoffs/meter readings etc. NOT so that your dog can squat and poop on their lawns. The homeowner is the one that pays good money to maintain that “easement” as well as the rest of the lawn!

2. You also agreed to covenants when you moved in. Those covenants clearly state that dogs are allowed in the villages. It also clearly states if when walking those pets they defecate on someones property the pet owner responsible to clean it up.

***”Covenants have NOTHING to do with dogs pooping on someone else’s lawn! It merely means that Yes, you are allowed to have a dog if you live here, two in fact.

This is another example of poor wording which is going to make your case even harder to win in court, since if I am walking someone else's dog, I am NOT responsible to clean up after it, the owner is responsible. So, you will have to take that up with the owner. This is a good reason for me to walk my wife's dog and she should walk my dog. Are we getting silly enough yet?


***You are not responsible for cleaning up after your wife’s dog because you are not the owner??? And you say that would make it harder for the homeowner you violated to win in court? Oh would I just LOVE to be in the courtroom when you tell the judge that one! Lol!

This covenant says that I can walk my dogs in the neighborhood, and it is EXPECTED that the dogs will poop on peoples property. The reason it says I can walk my dogs on your property is that it doesn't state I can't, and does state the expectation that I will. This is known as implicit permission, by defining action to be taken in the case of something being that is permitted.

***You are trying to actually write that you have “permission” to trespass on someone else’s property merely because it is not explicitly written? Lol! Try that one out a few times buddy. If you’re lucky you might run fast enough in the other direction ****ing in your pants and praying the “homeowner” is a really bad shot! Again, go tell the judge why you are “allowed” to do so!

The covenant is not shy at saying things are NOT allowed, there are numerous examples of that. It does NOT say at any point that dogs can not be walked in the neighborhood. It states that when pets defecate on neighbors property what actions are to be taken.

This is the same thing as saying music must be "turned down" after (I think) 10 PM and until dawn. That gives implicit permission to play music loudly the rest of the time.

*** Here we go again...you believe you have ”permission” to play loud music and annoy anyone within earshot and you can’t be ordered to lower it down merely because it’s before 10 PM and until dawn? Boy, that “dawn” thing is WAY off! Well, wrong again Martin my boy...!!
It’s called “Disturbing The Peace” for legal terminology. If an Officer or Sheriff shows up at your door and orders you to ”turn it down” as they have received a couple of complaints (usually at least 2 complaints will do it) and he or she has to return because you have failed to comply (Oh yeah, “Failure To Comply” is another violation) with such an order, you will 99% of the time be handed a nice little summons with a court date on it. If you ignore any of the above you will be handcuffed, patted down and placed in the back of a unit. You are headed to jail. If you fail to show up on your court date, or a lawyer that is representing you, a warrant will be issued for your arrest and, yes, again, on your way to jail.


The covenants are very poorly worded. But, they do supersede local county laws (in most civil issues), since you agreed to them when you moved in.

3. I don't know about Sumter County laws and how they are written, but in most of the country, you will have difficult time charging someone with trespass without a "Private Property" sign clearly posted. I guess I don't have to mention that you are not allowed to post a private property sign in TV.

***Wrong again! Read the above. I already covered trespass. No sign need be posted. You have NO right to trespass onto another’s land or home. The covenants of the Villages does NOT supercede ANY CRIMINAL LAW of any city or county in this country! Because all the points you tried to make here are just that. Criminal violations. You try to write as if you must know what your talking about so go ahead....keep trying to tell the nice folks here in the Villages how you can do what you want and get away with it! See how far you’ll get!!

I responded for one reason only. I cannot STAND someone that thinks they can walk on people because if you say it loud enough they will think it must be so. You are blithering about violating the law and talking about violating people’s rights and I wasn’t going to keep still when you knew none of it was true because I don’t think ANYBODY is that feeble minded.

And finally I don't appreciate the insult of "drinking the cool aide" just because I disagree with your interpretation of how laws will be enforced. It is not conducive to a civil conversation or solving what is obviously a continuing issue among neighbors.

***Your interpretation of the law you say? You don’t believe that any more than I do.

I could as just as well say you should stop eating the sour grapes.[/QUOTE

By the way, I am not only a dog lover but I am a dog owner. That is so you cannot try to say I must be a dog hater. Actually I’ve never met a bad dog, just not so good owner’s on occasion.


Well said if it doesn't get removed for stating the truth!
AS i said friend you can't fix Stupid or Arrogance.
Stay Well.
Florida Statues 810.09 is very clear.

[Bay Kid]

I never take my concrete dog anywhere.

[PrudentLifer]

"Well, the reason I believe I can walk my dog on your property is as follows:"


[emoji23]

[Chellybean]

"Well, the reason I believe I can walk my dog on your property is as follows:"


[emoji23]

Yes i also got a chuckle with that as well. Unfortunately with that attitude he will find out very fast how wrong he is and the people he Pis*es off as well.

NO pun intended lol

[Marathon Man]

"Well, the reason I believe I can walk my dog on your property is as follows:"


[emoji23]

Yep. Sometimes you just want to say - Did you think about that before you decided to talk?

[FenneyFanatic]

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

[njbchbum]

Frontage easements, typically a water main will add 6-7 feet to your maintenance frontage. That easement is no way the homeowners property. Your survey and a tape measure will verify this.
The benefit to being on an easement side of the street is a greater front setback to the street and a longer driveway.
Still, no excuse for a dog walker not respecting what you maintain.

Corner house owners know this all to well thinking adding a pool or an extension will be allowed.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

If so - the why are the homeowners required to maintain that area and pay property taxes on it?

[PrudentLifer]

If so - the why are the homeowners required to maintain that area and pay property taxes on it?



For the very same reason you have to maintain and shovel the sidewalk in front of your house up north. The town requires it.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..." [emoji527]
George Orwell

[PrudentLifer]

If so - the why are the homeowners required to maintain that area and pay property taxes on it?



You're not paying taxes on the easement.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..." [emoji527]
George Orwell

[Jayhawk]

Sadly, many people are not as interested in peaceful co-existence... This whole "having neighbors" thing is new to us, coming from 11 acres where the closest neighbor being over 1/4 to 1/2 mile away. We are trying to learn, but I do think some give and take on both sides can make things better.

Stop being so reasonable. :1rotfl:

[PrudentLifer]

A show of hands please!


Neighbors are allowed to have their dogs wee wee and poop on your lawn...Hands up!

[emoji90][emoji90][emoji90]


Neighbors need to respect that which doesn't belong to them, namely, your property... Hands up!

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[emoji6]


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..." [emoji527]
George Orwell

[Chellybean]

You're not paying taxes on the easement.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..." [emoji527]
George Orwell

CAREFUL ABOUT EASEMENTS, depending ON WHAT TYPE OF EASEMENT IT IS. Some EASEMENTS ARE YOUR PROPERTY BUT GIVES UTILITY COMPANY'S THE RIGHT TO Services there Utility's. Also you can pay taxes on it as a whole.

[PrudentLifer]

CAREFUL ABOUT EASEMENTS, depending ON WHAT TYPE OF EASEMENT IT IS. Some EASEMENTS ARE YOUR PROPERTY BUT GIVES UTILITY COMPANY'S THE RIGHT TO Services there Utility's. Also you can pay taxes on it as a whole.

Duly noted and correct.

[Polar Bear]

CAREFUL ABOUT EASEMENTS, depending ON WHAT TYPE OF EASEMENT IT IS. Some EASEMENTS ARE YOUR PROPERTY BUT GIVES UTILITY COMPANY'S THE RIGHT TO Services there Utility's...
Very true.

Also, the front lot lines for many (most?) lots in The Villages are several feet from the edge of pavement or back of curb of the road. Yes...some of your front yard is in the road right-of-way. So easements are often not even necessary.

Does this mean it’s okay to walk dogs in this right-of-way portion of the front yard? Absolutely not. The frontage property owners are still responsible for maintenance.

[billethkid]

I don't think the folks who potty their dogs on other peoples home site could care less, nor even think about such things as easements or what ever.

They are just plain brazenly and openly inconsiderate!!

[Chellybean]

I don't think the folks who potty their dogs on other peoples home site could care less, nor even think about such things as easements or what ever.

They are just plain brazenly and openly inconsiderate!!

WOW well said.
Like one of my neighbors said to a dog walker!
How would you like if i Sh#t on your lawn! Priceless

[PrudentLifer]

I don't think the folks who potty their dogs on other peoples home site could care less, nor even think about such things as easements or what ever.



They are just plain brazenly and openly inconsiderate!!



People who I can only assume were never given a good smack upside their heads during their lifetimes.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

[GoPacers]

Given how much a dog peeing in a yard can blow someone's mind, I can't imagine how much energy is wasted worrying about all the other critters that poop and pee in folk's yard every night with no owner to clean it up or to bitch at.

Do you stay up all night chasing rabbits, birds, etc.? Let alone a fox, bobcat or gosh forbid all the anoles that invade the yards. I get it, dog owners need to pick up the poop. If they don't, he/she deserves a good tongue lashing.

Some of you folks must have been really important in your earlier life.

[PrudentLifer]

I for one take great pride in the appearance of my home and yard. Others, not so much. Dog pee contains concentrated nitrogen which leaves a yellow spot and eventually kills the lawn at that spot. I don't like that, my lawn, my rules. Your lawn, your rules. Keep off mine, I'll keep off yours. Wait, I'll always keep off yours. It's called respect for the property of others. Am I wrong or disrespectful, no. Are you wrong and disrespectful, yes.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

[Kannon451]

I for one take great pride in the appearance of my home and yard. Others, not so much. Dog pee contains concentrated nitrogen which leaves a yellow spot and eventually kills the lawn at that spot. I don't like that, my lawn, my rules. Your lawn, your rules. Keep off mine, I'll keep off yours. Wait, I'll always keep off yours. It's called respect for the property of others. Am I wrong or disrespectful, no. Are you wrong and disrespectful, yes.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

Well said.

[cbv0211]

Get the Recreation Department person at the front desk involved the next time you see dogs on the courts. Let the Rec Dept know and have them handle it.

[Chellybean]

I for one take great pride in the appearance of my home and yard. Others, not so much. Dog pee contains concentrated nitrogen which leaves a yellow spot and eventually kills the lawn at that spot. I don't like that, my lawn, my rules. Your lawn, your rules. Keep off mine, I'll keep off yours. Wait, I'll always keep off yours. It's called respect for the property of others. Am I wrong or disrespectful, no. Are you wrong and disrespectful, yes.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

Well said! people have no respect and again they feel entitled!

[Chellybean]

Given how much a dog peeing in a yard can blow someone's mind, I can't imagine how much energy is wasted worrying about all the other critters that poop and pee in folk's yard every night with no owner to clean it up or to bitch at.

Do you stay up all night chasing rabbits, birds, etc.? Let alone a fox, bobcat or gosh forbid all the anoles that invade the yards. I get it, dog owners need to pick up the poop. If they don't, he/she deserves a good tongue lashing.

Some of you folks must have been really important in your earlier life.

your missing the point! wild animals you have NO control over. The Dog owners bring there dog to your property on a leash. That's the difference if you can't figure it out. If they want to walk there dog keep them on the street not on peoples lawns, Very simple, but peoples intent is to let there dogs go on other peoples lawns, take them to the dog park! problem solved.

[canyonblue]

That easement is no way the homeowners property.

WRONG! The most misunderstood and overused statement in The Villages.

[PrudentLifer]

WRONG! The most misunderstood and overused statement in The Villages.


When it comes to frontage, it is not wrong. Check your survey.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

[PrudentLifer]

WRONG! The most misunderstood and overused statement in The Villages.



I was very cognizant of this when I was doing a landscape island on my front lawn. I did not want to encroach on it, I like to keep things legal. 7' to the curb did not belong to me. I maintained the proper setback so as not to encroach. Many homeowners or should I say their landscapers do not.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

[asianthree]

OP is commenting on use of fenced in courts. No matter how you feel it’s a shame that some residents just don’t care what they do.

[Velvet]

I think until there is appropriate consequences/punishment for dog owners not following the rules, there will not be compliance.

If dog ownership is allowed in TV at all then one needs to think of what can these owners do, that is easy and practical with their different types of dogs too. Dog parks have been suggested but for some people and locations that might take quite a bit of effort.

[GoPacers]

I was very cognizant of this when I was doing a landscape island on my front lawn. I did not want to encroach on it, I like to keep things legal. 7' to the curb did not belong to me. I maintained the proper setback so as not to encroach. Many homeowners or should I say their landscapers do not.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

You've identified one of the biggest issues - who owns what here in The Villages. Like you, I also know exactly where our property lines are and there are areas that I maintain that I do not own. While I might prefer animals not pee in that area there really isn't much I can do about it.

[New Englander]

I just don't get it. Why in the world would someone bring a dog in a fenced-in court? It's ridiculous, inconsiderate, and just plain ignorant.

[anothersteve]

Since you are talking about easements

"An easement is a "nonpossessory" property interest that allows the holder of the easement to use property that he or she does not own or possess. An easement doesn't allow the easement holder to occupy the land or to exclude others from the land, unless they interfere with the easement holder's use. In contrast, the possessor of the land may continue to use the easement and may exclude everyone except the easement holder from the land.

Land affected or "burdened" by an easement is called a "servient estate," while the land or person benefited by the easement is known as the "dominant estate." If the easement benefits a particular piece of land, it's said to be "appurtenant" to the land. If the easement only benefits an individual personally, not as an owner of a particular piece of land, the easement is termed "in gross." Most easements are affirmative, which means that they authorize use of another's land. Less common are negative easements, which usually involve preserving a person's access to light or view by limiting what can be done on neighboring or nearby property."

I'm not getting into an argument, just defining "easement"

Easement Basics - FindLaw (https://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-laws/easement-basics.html)

Steve

[Polar Bear]

I think until there is appropriate consequences/punishment for dog owners not following the rules, there will not be compliance...
There's already major compliance. 100%? Of course not. Show me a rule that gets total compliance. (That would likely be a rule that is not needed. Heheh.)


...If dog ownership is allowed in TV at all then one needs to think of what can these owners do, that is easy and practical with their different types of dogs too. Dog parks have been suggested but for some people and locations that might take quite a bit of effort.
Way, way overcomplicating the issue.

Our dog does her business on our property and we pick it up as necessary. She still gets walks...without stepping on anybody else's yard...and does business in acceptable public areas, and we also pick that up. She gets golf cart/auto rides to acceptable public areas for her business/pickup also.

It's all so routine and easy and enjoyable. I'd bet most dog owners in TV have functionally equivalent routines of their own. And by 'most' I mean a LOT more than 51% :)

[PrudentLifer]

Since you are talking about easements

"An easement is a "nonpossessory" property interest that allows the holder of the easement to use property that he or she does not own or possess. An easement doesn't allow the easement holder to occupy the land or to exclude others from the land, unless they interfere with the easement holder's use. In contrast, the possessor of the land may continue to use the easement and may exclude everyone except the easement holder from the land.

Land affected or "burdened" by an easement is called a "servient estate," while the land or person benefited by the easement is known as the "dominant estate." If the easement benefits a particular piece of land, it's said to be "appurtenant" to the land. If the easement only benefits an individual personally, not as an owner of a particular piece of land, the easement is termed "in gross." Most easements are affirmative, which means that they authorize use of another's land. Less common are negative easements, which usually involve preserving a person's access to light or view by limiting what can be done on neighboring or nearby property."

I'm not getting into an argument, just defining "easement"

Easement Basics - FindLaw (https://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-laws/easement-basics.html)

Steve



I find real estate law very interesting. Especially since many of laws we have today have origins dating back to Roman through early English law.


"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears..."
George Orwell

[EdFNJ]

Given how much a dog peeing in a yard can blow someone's mind, I can't imagine how much energy is wasted worrying about all the other critters that poop and pee in folk's yard every night with no owner to clean it up or to bitch at.

Do you stay up all night chasing rabbits, birds, etc.? Let alone a fox, bobcat or gosh forbid all the anoles that invade the yards. I get it, dog owners need to pick up the poop. If they don't, he/she deserves a good tongue lashing.

Some of you folks must have been really important in your earlier life.


Dogs, as opposed to anoles, wabbits, frogs, fireants etc often leave big mushy steamy stinky piles. Never seen a bobcat, fox, giraffe, elephant or fire breathing dragon in our 'hood (although I do know they exist in some of the other areas of T.V.). Difference is, those other "critters" are not walked with a leash (supposedly) under the control of their owners and therein lies the difference.

[Velvet]

Way, way overcomplicating the issue.

Our dog does her business on our property and we pick it up as necessary. She still gets walks...without stepping on anybody else's yard...and does business in acceptable public areas, and we also pick that up. She gets golf cart/auto rides to acceptable public areas for her business/pickup also.



Yes. My dogs had a sandbox at the back yard where they were trained to go, up north.

I understand the frustration of people who don’t own dogs or like dogs in the first place.

To look after dogs one loves almost as much as family involves work. As with children, the older one gets the more difficult it is to look properly after one’s dog and if it was made easier, eg. a close dog park or dog friendly area, it could be done in TV, it might help. But others property or courts are not the answer.

When designing TV if dogs are allowed then one needs to consider what will happen to the animals. This seems to be already in the works with the new fenced in verandas.

[Topspinmo]

After reading all this I feel constipated! I don’t worry about shyt I can’t control. If it’s not you’re property, you have no control over it. End of sentence.:ohdear:

[Polar Bear]

...If it’s not you’re property, you have no control over it. End of sentence...
In this world of easements, right-of-way, liens, and a myriad of other legal documents, that can be wrong on so many levels.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Though I can't say I "like" it - I don't object to people walking their dogs at the curb of my property, as long as they pick up the solids if the dog poops there. I would actually applaud the owner if I saw them spray a urine neutralizer on the affected area if the dog peed there (they exist, you can buy them in any pet store). If I saw a dog owner doing that, I'd probably buy some dog treats and offer one every time I saw the two walking toward our yard.

Meanwhile, I DO object to people who walk their dogs further onto our lawn. I saw someone do that a couple of months ago. He stepped off the street, around 20 feet onto our property, and let his dog take a poop next to our flower bed. He not only didn't pick up after the dog, he didn't even carry a baggie to do so if he got caught.

Since it was the first time I saw this happen, I decided not to say anything. If I see it a second time, I will absolutely go outside and confront the guy directly. And I won't be very polite about it.

[billethkid]

What control would be wanted in the first place.
And how many really care if they own the easement or not?So there is an easement. Who has had to do what about anything regarding the easement on their property since moving in here?

Me at 16 years.....nothing!!!!

It seems to be an issue that is not an issue and being intellectualized to the 16th decimal point......(especially when all one needs is whole numbers).

IMHO
:popcorn:

[Polar Bear]

...Who has had to do what about anything regarding the easement on their property since moving in here?

Me at 16 years.....nothing!!!!...
So you’ve never mowed your front yard down to the curb?? :)

[billethkid]

So you’ve never mowed your front yard down to the curb?? :)

I did once!!

I make no distinction....I treat it as it is all mine like everybody else does.....that would be the whole numbers approach.:)

[Topspinmo]

in this world of easements, right-of-way, liens, and a myriad of other legal documents, that can be wrong on so many levels.

not talking about easements

[Chellybean]

Since you are talking about easements

"An easement is a "nonpossessory" property interest that allows the holder of the easement to use property that he or she does not own or possess. An easement doesn't allow the easement holder to occupy the land or to exclude others from the land, unless they interfere with the easement holder's use. In contrast, the possessor of the land may continue to use the easement and may exclude everyone except the easement holder from the land.

Land affected or "burdened" by an easement is called a "servient estate," while the land or person benefited by the easement is known as the "dominant estate." If the easement benefits a particular piece of land, it's said to be "appurtenant" to the land. If the easement only benefits an individual personally, not as an owner of a particular piece of land, the easement is termed "in gross." Most easements are affirmative, which means that they authorize use of another's land. Less common are negative easements, which usually involve preserving a person's access to light or view by limiting what can be done on neighboring or nearby property."

I'm not getting into an argument, just defining "easement"

Easement Basics - FindLaw (https://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-laws/easement-basics.html)

Steve


you are so wrong in what you are say about easements. Many easements are owned by the property owner and listed in the deed. the deed only gives certain utility company's to have a right to repair there utility's period. it is not a right for anyone else to enter the property including dog owners.
Have a nice day.

[Moderator]

This thread has strayed way beyond the OP's questions about dog's running loose on sports courts. It has degenerated into the typical dog poop, dog haters vs lovers, thread.

Thread closed.

Moderator