The Federal Deficit

[Love2Swim]

Is anyone concerned about the federal deficit? I was just reading that the deficit is growing in large part because tax receipts are falling. In other words, the 2017 tax cuts continue to siphon revenue from the treasury. The tax cuts are not paying for themselves as promised. Tax revenue for the last two years has fallen more than $400 billion short of what the CBO projected months before the tax law was passed. The deficit is now nearly $1 Trillion. Some experts are saying this level of debt is unprecedented in peacetime during a growing economy. The economy is supposedly "booming" yet the deficit is the highest since 2012 when the country was emerging from the Great Recession.

[Kenswing]

Is anyone concerned about the federal deficit? I was just reading that the deficit is growing in large part because tax receipts are falling. In other words, the 2017 tax cuts continue to siphon revenue from the treasury. The tax cuts are not paying for themselves as promised. Tax revenue for the last two years has fallen more than $400 billion short of what the CBO projected months before the tax law was passed. The deficit is now nearly $1 Trillion. Some experts are saying this level of debt is unprecedented in peacetime during a growing economy. The economy is supposedly "booming" yet the deficit is the highest since 2012 when the country was emerging from the Great Recession.
I guess it depends on where you get your info from.. According to this article we have a spending problem.. Either way it's no good..
US deficit hits nearly $1 trillion. When will it matter? (https://www.apnews.com/caeb6d6c4eff45e4bc5da12db06004bc)

For 2019, revenues grew 4%. But spending jumped at twice that rate, reflecting a deal that Trump reached with Congress in early 2018 to boost spending.

[Love2Swim]

I guess it depends on where you get your info from.. According to this article we have a spending problem.. Either way it's no good..
US deficit hits nearly $1 trillion. When will it matter? (https://www.apnews.com/caeb6d6c4eff45e4bc5da12db06004bc)

For 2019, revenues grew 4%. But spending jumped at twice that rate, reflecting a deal that Trump reached with Congress in early 2018 to boost spending.

The article you quoted also said "Most analysts think any real solution will involve a combination of higher taxes and cost savings in the government’s huge benefit programs of Social Security and Medicare."

I think it is abundantly clear, that the promises that the tax cuts would pay for themselves, were just plain wrong. And frankly, it really irks me that companies are getting these huge tax breaks, with no guarantee that they will reinvest in this country or move their business back to this country. Instead, as predicted, companies focused on buying back stocks and increasing dividends, which benefits shareholders, not workers.

[retiredguy123]

In my opinion, very few people are concerned about the federal deficit or the federal debt. It's simple math, if you spend more money than you receive in taxes, you will have a deficit. You can argue all you want about how much you should spend or how much you should tax, but until people become concerned about the deficit, it will never be eliminated.

[Love2Swim]

In my opinion, very few people are concerned about the federal deficit or the federal debt. It's simple math, if you spend more money than you receive in taxes, you will have a deficit. You can argue all you want about how much you should spend or how much you should tax, but until people become concerned about the deficit, it will never be eliminated.

I agree, it is not on a lot of people's radar. The last time I remember people making a big deal about it, was when Bill Clinton ran for president, promising to balance the budget. I tend to be a fiscal conservative, and I wish politicians, no matter which party they belong to, would start paying attention.

[Bay Kid]

I found the tax cuts helped give my family a little extra savings for all their hard work. A good start would be for the government stop paying people, with our hard earned money, not to work. Lots of ways to save money w/smaller government, not making working people to give more.

[retiredguy123]

I think that one thing that some people don't seem to understand is that almost all tax revenue comes from private businesses that make a profit. Our Government does not generate income. So, any taxing policy to raise revenue must take into account that it cannot prevent or impede private businesses from succeeding, or you will lose your income source.

[rjm1cc]

As long as we vote for the people that want to give us something so we vote for them we will have a problem.

[Chi-Town]

In my opinion, very few people are concerned about the federal deficit or the federal debt. It's simple math, if you spend more money than you receive in taxes, you will have a deficit. You can argue all you want about how much you should spend or how much you should tax, but until people become concerned about the deficit, it will never be eliminated.People sure we're concerned 2008-2016.


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[villagerjack]

The article you quoted also said "Most analysts think any real solution will involve a combination of higher taxes and cost savings in the government’s huge benefit programs of Social Security and Medicare."

I think it is abundantly clear, that the promises that the tax cuts would pay for themselves, were just plain wrong. And frankly, it really irks me that companies are getting these huge tax breaks, with no guarantee that they will reinvest in this country or move their business back to this country. Instead, as predicted, companies focused on buying back stocks and increasing dividends, which benefits shareholders, not workers.

You assume workers are NOT SHAREHOLDERS? Don’t most workers have 401K or Union Pension etc? Also we now have the lowest unemployment rate in history ...that means MORE WORKERS so workers are benefitting in many different ways, Lastly, inflation is nowhere in sight so interest rates are much lower making the financing of the deficit a lot cheaper.

[Love2Swim]

I think that one thing that some people don't seem to understand is that almost all tax revenue comes from private businesses that make a profit. Our Government does not generate income. So, any taxing policy to raise revenue must take into account that it cannot prevent or impede private businesses from succeeding, or you will lose your income source.

But we have corporations that make billions in profits each year and pay zero tax. That isn't right either. Corporations should be made to pay their fair share.

[billethkid]

I guess if the illustrious gang in Washington is not concerned about over drawing the check book......what is there to be concerned about?
:pray:

[Love2Swim]

In answer to the reply about workers being shareholders, some workers yes, most, probably not.

[dewilson58]

But we have corporations that make billions in profits each year and pay zero tax. That isn't right either. Corporations should be made to pay their fair share.




Corporate Income Taxes are just a pass-thru to consumers. A corporate tax rate change will only have short-term benefits/pain. Over the long run, corporations will adjust and pass it thru.





A vast majority of corporate tax breaks come from accelerated depreciation and R&D write-offs. These tax breaks are just timing events. If corporations don't continue to invest in capital and R&D, the timing benefit will reverse. Not to mention the economic benefits of their investments.

[sajoe]

People with pensions and 401k accounts among workers today is rare. The last time I saw the figures 52% of the population are receiving some type of federal aid with the balance paying tax. How long can the government (and how many states?) operate at a deficit? As long as people BELIEVE a dollar is worth a dollar.

[Two Bills]

Deficit? What Deficit?
It is called Advanced Accounting.
A system where you spend what you don't have, then borrow to pay it back!
Cant go wrong. Can it? :shrug:

[Bucco]

Does all this mean we will not be balancing the budget or reducing the deficit "rather easily" ? Go figure

[dewilson58]

https://www.cbpp.org/archiveSite/4-14-08tax-f1.jpg

[jebartle]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: waiting for the "p" word, only a matter of time!!!

[dewilson58]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: waiting for the "p" word, only a matter of time!!!




"Popcorn" ???

[blueash]

The last three times there was a balanced budget, and in fact the Fed gov't took in more than it spent were the last 3 years of Clinton's administration. Because of the success of his economic policies and that those policies had begun to reduce the Federal deficit, the next administration decided that taxes should be dramatically reduced (https://www.thebalance.com/economic-growth-and-tax-relief-reconciliation-act-3305764), promising of course that tax cuts paid for themselves. The Heritage Foundation, an influential conservative think tank, predicted that the Bush tax cuts would eliminate the National Debt by 2010. Instead the National Debt doubled. The tax cuts were not the only factor but were a significant factor.

This failure of tax cuts to pay for themselves was a repeat of the failure of the tax cuts enacted in the early1980's to pay for themselves. The failure was recognized by the enactment of tax increases by Reagan in 82, 83, 84 and 87 and by HW Bush in 90 and finally by Clinton in 93. While tax policy is just a small part of the overall economic health of the country, it is a large part of the federal deficit and debt.

In 2017 the present administration passed another significant tax cut, promising it would stimulate the economy thus producing increased tax revenue and reduce the deficit. (https://www.c-span.org/video/?427261-6/institute-international-finance-policy-summit-secretary-mnuchin&start=577)

Now whether we need to be worried about debt and deficit is controversial. Some would argue that in this period of very low interest rates, it would be an excellent time for the Federal gov't to borrow to invest in our infrastructure.. roads, bridges, etc. Better to borrow the money needed at a low rate as it certainly is going to be needed to be borrowed and the work done.
Some might instead say.. let us raise taxes and use that increase to repair our decayed infrastructure. Pay as we go. We need about 2 trillion dollars!

[Viperguy]

According to this chart, revenue actually went up the past two years but spending was way up. And they want to increase it! We really have a problem with FREEBES.
Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary | Tax Policy Center (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/federal-receipt-and-outlay-summary)

[blueash]

According to this chart, revenue actually went up the past two years but spending was way up. And they want to increase it! We really have a problem with FREEBES.
Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary | Tax Policy Center (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/federal-receipt-and-outlay-summary)

Perhaps you could add more data to your post and tell me what FREEBES you believe create the increase in spending or the national debt? And I'd like to see specific numbers and specific programs you'd reduce or eliminate. Social security which most of us here receive is the largest cost to the Federal gov't, and next is Medicare, again which most of us get. We could get real savings by cutting those programs.

After all when we paid into Medicare there were very few of the life extending procedures and drugs which the program now is expected to pay. So the amount we paid in was totally inadequate to cover the benefit we are getting. We are getting a HUGE Freebe. Wait until there is an anti-Alzheimer drug approved. It is coming. And say it is 1000/mo and every senior wants it, every month, for the rest of their life. You didn't pay for that benefit. Do you deserve it or is it a FREEBE? Or that heart transplant from a new heart grown from your own stem cells at 500,000 dollars, to give you a few more years of life? Or is that a FREEBE?

So please come back and tell me what exactly you want to cut. Keep in mind that the Federal gov't spent 0.4 trillion on Welfare in 2018, and spent a greater percent of GDP in almost every year since 1970 than it did in 2018 (https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/rev/google_vis.php?title=Welfare%20Spending%20By%20Typ e&units=p&size=800_600&legend=Family%20and%20children-total_Housing-total_Unemployment-total&year=1900_2020&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=g&source=i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _a_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a _i_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_e_g_g_g&spending0=0.11_0.13_0.17_0.16_0.17_0.15_0.15_0.14_ 0.16_0.15_0.15_0.16_0.15_0.14_0.17_0.17_0.15_0.14_ 0.12_0.12_0.12_0.16_0.17_0.15_0.16_0.16_0.16_0.17_ 0.20_0.22_0.31_0.46_0.75_1.25_1.47_1.33_1.18_1.20_ 1.41_1.36_1.28_1.01_0.77_0.60_0.51_0.57_0.63_0.72_ 0.78_0.94_0.99_0.83_0.77_0.76_0.79_0.75_0.71_0.75_ 0.80_0.80_0.82_0.85_0.86_0.87_0.85_0.79_0.71_0.61_ 0.69_0.80_0.91_1.11_1.17_1.04_1.21_1.42_1.56_1.42_ 1.34_1.23_1.43_1.43_1.37_1.33_1.27_1.26_1.20_1.17_ 1.19_1.20_1.20_1.31_1.52_1.55_1.57_1.57_1.53_1.46_ 1.36_1.31_1.32_1.29_1.32_1.34_1.32_1.32_1.30_1.31_ 1.60_1.67_1.81_1.85_1.65_1.67_1.61_1.56_1.55_1.48_ 1.35_1.37_1.26&spending1=0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.05_0.08_0.10_ 0.12_0.20_0.26_0.34_0.37_0.29_0.26_0.17_0.10_0.09_ 0.09_0.15_0.19_0.21_0.24_0.20_0.19_0.14_0.13_0.13_ 0.17_0.16_0.21_0.23_0.22_0.21_0.19_0.20_0.20_0.20_ 0.21_0.22_0.25_0.28_0.31_0.34_0.34_0.33_0.30_0.31_ 0.31_0.35_0.41_0.46_0.52_0.51_0.51_0.82_0.52_0.50_ 0.52_0.35_0.36_0.38_0.50_0.54_0.55_0.58_0.55_0.54_ 0.54_0.50_0.49_0.51_0.54_0.56_0.56_0.56_0.54_0.52_ 0.56_0.65_0.69_0.66_0.58_0.54_0.52_0.50_0.50_0.48_ 0.46_0.44_0.41&spending2=0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.11_ 0.23_0.38_0.49_0.35_0.23_0.11_0.03_0.23_0.43_0.36_ 0.30_0.51_0.66_0.42_0.28_0.26_0.42_0.47_0.31_0.34_ 0.62_0.68_0.49_0.66_1.02_0.90_0.75_0.60_0.45_0.42_ 0.42_0.39_0.50_0.87_0.83_0.57_0.61_1.44_1.91_1.35_ 0.88_0.68_0.98_1.10_1.18_1.46_0.74_0.69_0.65_0.61_ 0.49_0.46_0.50_0.70_1.11_1.07_0.78_0.76_0.67_0.58_ 0.43_0.44_0.40_0.51_0.87_1.06_0.73_0.53_0.47_0.46_ 0.57_1.32_1.97_1.57_1.20_0.87_0.56_0.40_0.38_0.35_ 0.32_0.29_0.29)

[Bucco]

According to this chart, revenue actually went up the past two years but spending was way up. And they want to increase it! We really have a problem with FREEBES.
Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary | Tax Policy Center (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/federal-receipt-and-outlay-summary)

I see nothing in this link about "freebies" at all. I know the military spending has increased 150 Billion in the last few years.

Some who publicily were distressed about deficit spending to such a degree over the year have become silent on the subject.

Keep an eye on inflation. When that, if it does, begins to go up...then worry a lot about the deficit.

[retiredguy123]

Perhaps you could add more data to your post and tell me what FREEBES you believe create the increase in spending or the national debt? And I'd like to see specific numbers and specific programs you'd reduce or eliminate. Social security which most of us here receive is the largest cost to the Federal gov't, and next is Medicare, again which most of us get. We could get real savings by cutting those programs.

After all when we paid into Medicare there were very few of the life extending procedures and drugs which the program now is expected to pay. So the amount we paid in was totally inadequate to cover the benefit we are getting. We are getting a HUGE Freebe. Wait until there is an anti-Alzheimer drug approved. It is coming. And say it is 1000/mo and every senior wants it, every month, for the rest of their life. You didn't pay for that benefit. Do you deserve it or is it a FREEBE? Or that heart transplant from a new heart grown from your own stem cells at 500,000 dollars, to give you a few more years of life? Or is that a FREEBE?

So please come back and tell me what exactly you want to cut. Keep in mind that the Federal gov't spent 0.4 trillion on Welfare in 2018, and spent a greater percent of GDP in almost every year since 1970 than it did in 2018 (https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/rev/google_vis.php?title=Welfare%20Spending%20By%20Typ e&units=p&size=800_600&legend=Family%20and%20children-total_Housing-total_Unemployment-total&year=1900_2020&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=g&source=i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _a_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a _i_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_e_g_g_g&spending0=0.11_0.13_0.17_0.16_0.17_0.15_0.15_0.14_ 0.16_0.15_0.15_0.16_0.15_0.14_0.17_0.17_0.15_0.14_ 0.12_0.12_0.12_0.16_0.17_0.15_0.16_0.16_0.16_0.17_ 0.20_0.22_0.31_0.46_0.75_1.25_1.47_1.33_1.18_1.20_ 1.41_1.36_1.28_1.01_0.77_0.60_0.51_0.57_0.63_0.72_ 0.78_0.94_0.99_0.83_0.77_0.76_0.79_0.75_0.71_0.75_ 0.80_0.80_0.82_0.85_0.86_0.87_0.85_0.79_0.71_0.61_ 0.69_0.80_0.91_1.11_1.17_1.04_1.21_1.42_1.56_1.42_ 1.34_1.23_1.43_1.43_1.37_1.33_1.27_1.26_1.20_1.17_ 1.19_1.20_1.20_1.31_1.52_1.55_1.57_1.57_1.53_1.46_ 1.36_1.31_1.32_1.29_1.32_1.34_1.32_1.32_1.30_1.31_ 1.60_1.67_1.81_1.85_1.65_1.67_1.61_1.56_1.55_1.48_ 1.35_1.37_1.26&spending1=0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.05_0.08_0.10_ 0.12_0.20_0.26_0.34_0.37_0.29_0.26_0.17_0.10_0.09_ 0.09_0.15_0.19_0.21_0.24_0.20_0.19_0.14_0.13_0.13_ 0.17_0.16_0.21_0.23_0.22_0.21_0.19_0.20_0.20_0.20_ 0.21_0.22_0.25_0.28_0.31_0.34_0.34_0.33_0.30_0.31_ 0.31_0.35_0.41_0.46_0.52_0.51_0.51_0.82_0.52_0.50_ 0.52_0.35_0.36_0.38_0.50_0.54_0.55_0.58_0.55_0.54_ 0.54_0.50_0.49_0.51_0.54_0.56_0.56_0.56_0.54_0.52_ 0.56_0.65_0.69_0.66_0.58_0.54_0.52_0.50_0.50_0.48_ 0.46_0.44_0.41&spending2=0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_ 0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.00_0.11_ 0.23_0.38_0.49_0.35_0.23_0.11_0.03_0.23_0.43_0.36_ 0.30_0.51_0.66_0.42_0.28_0.26_0.42_0.47_0.31_0.34_ 0.62_0.68_0.49_0.66_1.02_0.90_0.75_0.60_0.45_0.42_ 0.42_0.39_0.50_0.87_0.83_0.57_0.61_1.44_1.91_1.35_ 0.88_0.68_0.98_1.10_1.18_1.46_0.74_0.69_0.65_0.61_ 0.49_0.46_0.50_0.70_1.11_1.07_0.78_0.76_0.67_0.58_ 0.43_0.44_0.40_0.51_0.87_1.06_0.73_0.53_0.47_0.46_ 0.57_1.32_1.97_1.57_1.20_0.87_0.56_0.40_0.38_0.35_ 0.32_0.29_0.29)
Wow! There are so many that I couldn't list them all. Here are two. Cut the number of Federal employees and their salaries and benefits. Federal employees make so much more money for less work than other workers that it is embarrassing. And, cut out the risky student loans. So far, the student loan debt is 1.6 trillion dollars, and it doesn't appear that these loans will be paid back. But, the Government keeps shelling them out and colleges keep raising prices to spend that money. Totally unnecessary.

[jebartle]

"Popcorn" ???

Giggle, snort!

[JimJohnson]

One sure fact is it has gotten worse in the last two years. We need to get back the way things were headed in the previous 8 years.

[billethkid]

One sure fact is it has gotten worse in the last two years. We need to get back the way things were headed in the previous 8 years.

:shocked:

:icon_bored:

[Nucky]

OP'S Question: Is anyone concerned about the federal deficit?

Would being concerned change anything? If being concerned helps, then mark us down as concerned.

All the rest of the info is NOTHING but :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah:

[Bucco]

OP'S Question: Is anyone concerned about the federal deficit?

Would being concerned change anything? If being concerned helps, then mark us down as concerned.

All the rest of the info is NOTHING but :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah:

I believe that economic growth, or lack therof will be very important in the next year or so, thus being concerned and informed WILL change quite a bit perhaps, thus discussions on this subject are never fruitless.

Haven't read many economic theories that did not inform me, but then again, I really care a lot.....children and grandchildren are important.....they will live with whatever.

[Ben Franklin]

In 2018 social security had a $3 billion dollar surplus, after expenses. That's total revenue from people paying in to social security ($1.003 trillion) and out go that year. So where does the true spending exist?

[Chi-Town]

One sure fact is it has gotten worse in the last two years. We need to get back the way things were headed in the previous 8 years.They were slow but steady times. Very little drama compared to today.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[dewilson58]

In 2018 social security had a $3 billion dollar surplus, after expenses. That's total revenue from people paying in to social security ($1.003 trillion) and out go that year. So where does the true spending exist?




Refer to Post #18.




:ohdear:

[ColdNoMore]

The article you quoted also said "Most analysts think any real solution will involve a combination of higher taxes and cost savings in the government’s huge benefit programs of Social Security and Medicare."

I think it is abundantly clear, that the promises that the tax cuts would pay for themselves, were just plain wrong. And frankly, it really irks me that companies are getting these huge tax breaks, with no guarantee that they will reinvest in this country or move their business back to this country. Instead, as predicted, companies focused on buying back stocks and increasing dividends, which benefits shareholders, not workers.

:bigbow:...:bigbow:


But hey, at least I can now deduct expenses...for my private jet. :thumbup:

[ColdNoMore]

People sure we're concerned 2008-2016.


I wonder why? :1rotfl:

Interestingly, we have now spent MORE THAN DOUBLE on farmer bailouts, than on all of the loans made to automobile companies...during the Great Recession.

I would link it, but the link might be too political...so y'all can easily research it yourself.

The difference though?

The loans were mostly paid back. :oops:

And yet, I'll bet a high % who were adamantly against the auto loans and the hundreds of thousands of people it helped keep a job...have no problem with paying large corporate farms for self-inflicted wounds. :ohdear:

[ColdNoMore]

You assume workers are NOT SHAREHOLDERS? Don’t most workers have 401K or Union Pension etc? Also we now have the lowest unemployment rate in history ...that means MORE WORKERS so workers are benefitting in many different ways, Lastly, inflation is nowhere in sight so interest rates are much lower making the financing of the deficit a lot cheaper.

BARELY "most."

As in 52-54%.

Meaning, 46-48% of Americans...have NO stocks whatsoever.

Stocks of any kind (click here) (http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/sep/18/ro-khanna/what-percentage-americans-own-stocks/)

A once-every-three-years study by the Federal Reserve Board found that in 2016, 51.9 percent of families owned stocks, either directly or as part of a fund.

And in 2017, Gallup found that 54 percent of respondents owned stocks either directly or as part of a fund.

[Rollie]

There were several candidates that ran in the last presidential election whose platform was reducing the federal deficit. They all lost. Nobody cares. What people care about, are give aways.

Rollie

[Bay Kid]

I think that one thing that some people don't seem to understand is that almost all tax revenue comes from private businesses that make a profit. Our Government does not generate income. So, any taxing policy to raise revenue must take into account that it cannot prevent or impede private businesses from succeeding, or you will lose your income source.

When I had a small business we paid our more than fair share. There were a few years we did ok and at the end of the year we had to spend money for the company, or give it to the gov. Hard for any business to save any money to protect our company for the next year. Gov. is a big business that can only get more money to give away is to raise taxes on the working people.

[Topspinmo]

But we have corporations that make billions in profits each year and pay zero tax. That isn't right either. Corporations should be made to pay their fair share.

And you know this? They pay taxes they don’t make billions without paying taxes.

[Topspinmo]

There were several candidates that ran in the last presidential election whose platform was reducing the federal deficit. They all lost. Nobody cares. What people care about, are give aways.

Rollie
Cause most knew it was a joke. Say anything to get elected.

[Topspinmo]

I wonder why? :1rotfl:

Interestingly, we have now spent MORE THAN DOUBLE on farmer bailouts, than on all of the loans made to automobile companies...during the Great Recession.

I would link it, but the link might be too political...so y'all can easily research it yourself.

The difference though?

The loans were mostly paid back. :oops:

And yet, I'll bet a high % who were adamantly against the auto loans and the hundreds of thousands of people it helped keep a job...have no problem with paying large corporate farms for self-inflicted wounds. :ohdear:

Did you forget the famous peanut farmer?

[Love2Swim]

And you know this? They pay taxes they don’t make billions without paying taxes.

We're talking about net taxes. According to CBS News, there are at least 60 large corporations that paid no income tax on $79 billion in profits in 2018. Amazon and Netflix should have paid $16 billion alone, but instead got tax REBATES. The new law cut the statutory tax rate to 21 percent, while leaving intact most of the tax breaks and loopholes, which allowed profitable companies to zero out their income taxes.

[dewilson58]

We're talking about net taxes. According to CBS News, there are at least 60 large corporations that paid no income tax on $79 billion in profits in 2018. Amazon and Netflix should have paid $16 billion alone, but instead got tax REBATES. The new law cut the statutory tax rate to 21 percent, while leaving intact most of the tax breaks and loopholes, which allowed profitable companies to zero out their income taxes.




Losses from prior years, tax incentives to invest in the future & employees.................all legit. Corporate Taxes are just a pass-thru.


I'm good with that.

[Viperguy]

Corporations don't pay taxes, their customers pay them. Taxes are a cost of business and they are passed on. Taxes are reduced by deductions for capital expenditures.... ie expansion!

[blueash]

Corporations don't pay taxes, their customers pay them. Taxes are a cost of business and they are passed on. Taxes are reduced by deductions for capital expenditures.... ie expansion!

So when I paid my city taxes which covered police, roads, snow removal, city employees, holiday decorations, local courts etc etc, were those services which only the citizens of the city utilized? Or should the corporations in that city also pay for police and all the other city services? Why should XYZ corp get the street plowed to their business if they pay no tax? Why should the police care if they are robbed if they pay no tax. Corporations use services just like people do. And corporations should pay. Why don't you argue they should get their water and electricity for free also, as they just pass on those costs in the cost for products?
The same principle applies to state and federal taxation. Corporations utilize all the same services as individuals.

[xNYer]

I think that one thing that some people don't seem to understand is that almost all tax revenue comes from private businesses that make a profit. Our Government does not generate income. So, any taxing policy to raise revenue must take into account that it cannot prevent or impede private businesses from succeeding, or you will lose your income source.

About 48 percent of federal revenue comes from individual income taxes, 9 percent from corporate income taxes, and another 35 percent from payroll taxes that fund social insurance programs. The rest comes from a mix of sources.

[retiredguy123]

About 48 percent of federal revenue comes from individual income taxes, 9 percent from corporate income taxes, and another 35 percent from payroll taxes that fund social insurance programs. The rest comes from a mix of sources.
Where do you think those individuals get their income to pay income and payroll taxes? They get it from the profit made by corporations and other businesses. Or, if they are Government employees, they get their income from the Government who got it from corporations and other private businesses. I think that almost all wealth and income in the country comes from the profits made by private businesses.

[njbchbum]

But we have corporations that make billions in profits each year and pay zero tax. That isn't right either. Corporations should be made to pay their fair share.

What is a Corporation's - or anyone's - "fair share"?

[njbchbum]

People with pensions and 401k accounts among workers today is rare. The last time I saw the figures 52% of the population are receiving some type of federal aid with the balance paying tax. How long can the government (and how many states?) operate at a deficit? As long as people BELIEVE a dollar is worth a dollar.

2017 - but govt data is always slow to arrive!

Does the Average American Have a 401(k)? | The Motley Fool (https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx)

"Data from the Census Bureau suggests that as little as 14% of all employers offer a 401(k), yet Census researchers recently estimated that 79% of Americans work for an employer that sponsors a 401(k)-style retirement plan. How is that possible? Large companies that employ high numbers of workers are the most likely to sponsor retirement plans.

All that said, not everyone who's offered an employer-sponsored plan actually takes advantage of it. Of those 79% of Americans who get the choice to fund a 401(k), only 41% opt to participate. As such, just 32% of the total workforce is saving in a 401(k)."

[billethkid]

There is another question needing to be addressed.

Why has it been this way ....forever....regardless what political power is in charge in Washington??????

Why do US Corporations hold billions of profits in over seas locations/institutions instead of repatriating the profits back to the USA? The tax structure....this has always been the case regardless what political power is in charge in Washington.

There are some things that are/have been bi-partisan......that goes without discussion.....hint: has nothing to do with representing the benefit of the voters!!!

[Jdmiata]

As long as we vote for the people that want to give us something so we vote for them we will have a problem.

Absolutely correct !

[HimandMe]

One sure fact is it has gotten worse in the last two years. We need to get back the way things were headed in the previous 8 years.

More jobs, good economy, deploying troops? Seems like better to me.

[New Englander]

There were several candidates that ran in the last presidential election whose platform was reducing the federal deficit. They all lost. Nobody cares. What people care about, are give aways.

Rollie

I could use a free cell phone.

[NotFromAroundHere]

There were several candidates that ran in the last presidential election whose platform was reducing the federal deficit. They all lost. Nobody cares. What people care about, are give aways.

Rollie

They didn't all lose. One of them won.

[Bucco]

More jobs, good economy, deploying troops? Seems like better to me.

/////

[dillywho]

Let me preface this by saying that I did not read every post here. I do, however, have a comment of my own. The debate about the deficit/debt is interesting and there are some valid points. That being said, I also have a question:

If everyone (everyone being a general term and not precise) is so concerned that the taxes are not sufficient, then why all the outcry when taxes are raised? I'm not talking about business taxes, but individual taxes. Brings to mind the old adage of, "Let George do it; just leave me alone."

Personally, I have enjoyed the tax cuts and the rise in my retirement funds. And, yes to the poster who pointed out that we, as retirees or participants in 401k's or mutual funds or whatever, ARE indeed those "greedy shareholders".

[Bogie Shooter]

They didn't all lose. One of them won.

And the deficit has increased!

[anothersteve]

///

[anothersteve]

They didn't all lose. One of them won.


And the deficit has increased!

I don't get your point.

US Debt by President: By Dollar and Percentage (https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296)

Steve

[Topspinmo]

Wow! There are so many that I couldn't list them all. Here are two. Cut the number of Federal employees and their salaries and benefits. Federal employees make so much more money for less work than other workers that it is embarrassing. And, cut out the risky student loans. So far, the student loan debt is 1.6 trillion dollars, and it doesn't appear that these loans will be paid back. But, the Government keeps shelling them out and colleges keep raising prices to spend that money. Totally unnecessary.

There few types of government employees GS and WG are majority. WG does all the manual work and GS employees do all the paperwork, figureheads, and bean counters. WG employees do have to show up to work on time, and actually have or accomplish something, and leave at end of shift down to minute.

WG employees don’t Have the option of flex time. Which means you can come to work when you feel like it, take long lunch, and go home early, cause GS employees account for their own time keeping. where WG employees are controlled by WS or GS employees that are time keeper DONE to MINUTE. So please don say ALL government employees don’t earn their wage cause some do.

[Topspinmo]

Corporations don't pay taxes, their customers pay them. Taxes are a cost of business and they are passed on. Taxes are reduced by deductions for capital expenditures.... ie expansion!

And their employees

[Topspinmo]

About 48 percent of federal revenue comes from individual income taxes, 9 percent from corporate income taxes, and another 35 percent from payroll taxes that fund social insurance programs. The rest comes from a mix of sources.

Don’t forget about capital gains tax, inheritance tax, 401K, tax. Lottery winner tax. Basically if you made dime feds want their 4 cents, unless you have army of lawyers to get out of paying.

[Bucco]

I don't get your point.

US Debt by President: By Dollar and Percentage (https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296)

Steve

Interesting, you link is very very much out of context and totally ignores the last 3 years as if it did not happen.

Does no one understand how rare, and scary it is to have such deficit increases with a "strong" economy ?

Deficits are usually going down in such an economy, and up as they did in the 2008 recession.

But hey...

[retiredguy123]

There few types of government employees GS and WG are majority. WG does all the manual work and GS employees do all the paperwork, figureheads, and bean counters. WG employees do have to show up to work on time, and actually have or accomplish something, and leave at end of shift down to minute.

WG employees don’t Have the option of flex time. Which means you can come to work when you feel like it, take long lunch, and go home early, cause GS employees account for their own time keeping. where WG employees are controlled by WS or GS employees that are time keeper DONE to MINUTE. So please don say ALL government employees don’t earn their wage cause some do.
I agree that some Government employees earn their wage. But, I am very familiar with WG Federal employees. Most of the ones I worked with were overpaid and underworked. They made way more money and had way more benefits than comparable workers in the private sector. As an Inspector General, I remember conducting a focus discussion with a group of WG employees in West Virginia, where the WG employees made more than twice the income of the local blue collar workers. They spent over an hour telling me about all the problems they had with their jobs. After that, I asked them, if the job is so bad, why don't you just quit and get another job. I will never forget the one worker who stood up and said to me, "this is the best paying lousy job that I have ever had". There was no chance they were going to leave their Government jobs to work for a contractor in West Virginia for half the pay and no benefits.

[Chi-Town]

Did you forget the famous peanut farmer?George Washington Carver?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[anothersteve]

That link is well within context considering the posts quoted.
Steve

[Bucco]

That link is well within context considering the posts quoted.
Steve

"The U.S. budget deficit by year is how much more the federal government spends than it receives in revenue annually. The Fiscal Year 2020 U.S. budget deficit is expected to be $1.1 trillion. That's the largest deficit since 2012.

Spending was high in 2012 to combat the 2008 financial crisis. Tax receipts dropped due to the recession at the same time. Revenues are expected to be the highest in U.S. history in FY 2020"

US Deficit by Year Compared to GDP, Debt, and Events (https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306)

Nothing political her, just economics. The previous link simply ignored the 2008 depression.

In 2019 and 2020, the biggest item is military spending, not what one refer to as "freebies".

"Social Security and Medicare are mandatory programs that are also expensive, but payroll tax revenues cover most of their expenses."