View Full Version : Home Field Advantage
Marathon Man
10-31-2019, 06:11 AM
Well, so much for that.
Nucky
10-31-2019, 08:38 AM
It was a great series and nice to see some new blood in the game. The Nationals have a new fan as do the Astros. Boy, that loss has to hurt even worse today.
It was different but fun to watch when your team was not in the game. It was stressless.
I DO NOT like the Lets Go To The Videotape! Play the game. Sometimes you get the call and sometimes you Don't!
justjim
10-31-2019, 08:54 AM
Nats score 30 runs In Houston in four games but only 3 in three games in Washington. One of the commentators said, speaking from experence, sometimes players “tighten up” and try too hard playing before their own fans. I think he was on to something.
Polar Bear
10-31-2019, 10:47 AM
It was a great series...
It was different but fun to watch when your team was not in the game. It was stressless.
I DO NOT like the Lets Go To The Videotape! Play the game. Sometimes you get the call and sometimes you Don't!
Yep. Really fun series. Seven straight visitor victories...whodathunkit!!??!! :)
And I know where you're coming from about the replays. Game is slow enough already. But...
I like that it corrects obviously missed calls. As long as they keep it from being too much of a drag on the game, I'm in favor of it. Plus, I think we'll see the computer taking over calling balls and strikes in our lifetime. Not saying I'm a big fan of that either, but the strike zone is etched in stone and easily identified by technology, as is whether or not the pitch passes through it. So I think it will happen. Probably minor leagues first, but eventually The Show too.
retiredguy123
10-31-2019, 11:04 AM
Yep. Really fun series. Seven straight visitor victories...whodathunkit!!??!! :)
And I know where you're coming from about the replays. Game is slow enough already. But...
I like that it corrects obviously missed calls. As long as they keep it from being too much of a drag on the game, I'm in favor of it. Plus, I think we'll see the computer taking over calling balls and strikes in our lifetime. Not saying I'm a big fan of that either, but the strike zone is etched in stone and easily identified by technology, as is whether or not the pitch passes through it. So I think it will happen. Probably minor leagues first, but eventually The Show too.
I think the problem is that the strike zone is not the same for every batter. It changes based on the height of the batter. So, the rules would need to be changed to use technology.
retiredguy123
10-31-2019, 11:07 AM
Now that baseball is over, I need to find another sleep aid. Two or three innings of baseball, and I am sound asleep.
biker1
10-31-2019, 12:14 PM
Nope. The existing technology uses the batter's height to establish the strike zone.
I think the problem is that the strike zone is not the same for every batter. It changes based on the height of the batter. So, the rules would need to be changed to use technology.
blueash
10-31-2019, 12:18 PM
Two rule changes I'd suggest
1. Strike/Ball is called by the computer. Same strike zone for all batters. Just because you are short shouldn't force the pitcher to be more accurate. The width of the plate doesn't change because you have short or long arms. Neither should the top and bottom of the zone. Still need the home plate ump to call foul tips, checked swings, catcher interference, and tag plays at the plate. No more "framing the pitch" by the catcher. No more throwing it down the middle because you didn't get the call on the corner that the ump missed.
2. Relief pitchers must face three batters. No more parade of righty lefty righty. If the relief pitcher only pitches to one batter and claims a blister on his finger, the next two batters get intentional passes.
retiredguy123
10-31-2019, 12:24 PM
Nope. The existing technology uses the batter's height to establish the strike zone.
I think the rules would still need to be changed to establish who and how the strike zone is controlled. As I understand it, the umpire calls the balls and strikes, not a computer generated strike zone. Do you think baseball would be willing to take the umpire out of the game?
CFrance
10-31-2019, 12:39 PM
Yep. Really fun series. Seven straight visitor victories...whodathunkit!!??!! :)
And I know where you're coming from about the replays. Game is slow enough already. But...
I like that it corrects obviously missed calls. As long as they keep it from being too much of a drag on the game, I'm in favor of it. Plus, I think we'll see the computer taking over calling balls and strikes in our lifetime. Not saying I'm a big fan of that either, but the strike zone is etched in stone and easily identified by technology, as is whether or not the pitch passes through it. So I think it will happen. Probably minor leagues first, but eventually The Show too.
I can't wait till the computer takes over calling balls and strikes. Last year I read that umpires were miscalling pitches 13% of the time. It can be crucial to the game's outcome.
And I like the fact that the ball stays in one team's possession for a set amount of space. Games like soccer and hockey drive me nuts because the ball/puck is constantly changing hands. It's like an animated version of Where's Waldo. Football is second best to baseball in who controls the ball, but that doesn't bother me so much because once the ball changes hands, even in an interception, it's not going back and forth so often.
I love baseball, and I don't care how long it takes. I love the nuances, hearing about the different pitches and the strategies, etc. Plus it's lightening fast compared to cricket! (Which we're subjected to by Australian kids.)
VillageIdiots
10-31-2019, 12:42 PM
Couldn't disagree with Blueash more on the rule changes. The strategy is part of what makes the game more interesting. I do think they should get rid of the super-imposed strike zone on the TV though. When that technology was first used, it was only displayed on replays. Now it's there for every single pitch and just makes it that much more obvious when a bad ball/strike call has been made - it doesn't change the call and is not review-able by replay. I'd rather see the umpires stay and perhaps go to an audible tone that the plate umpire immediately hears indicating strike or not. They've had that technology for years in tennis where a tone is audible when a serve is a fault.
I don't find it all that amazing that the road team won every game. Any team that makes it that far would have had to have proven themselves at winning games on the road. Probably more amazing that it never happened before.
What I could stand them getting rid of are all of the silly firsts and records that just give the announcers more words to hear themselves talk. Things like "that's a record for the most RBI's by a third baseman in a World Series". Really - okay, what trophy does he get for that? All of that is a result of technology but is almost like it's part of the everyone gets a trophy for showing up mentality.
Bucco
10-31-2019, 12:49 PM
As someone who has opposed all the analytics in the game, I must say that I think some of this was a "coming out" party for analytics.
Just ordered a book (Ahead of the curve:inside the baseball revolution) by Brian Kenny of MLB network which promises to allow me to forget the old way of measuring.
Frankly, it seems to work in evaluating but oh so hard for a guy who measured on in Avg, Hits, Rbit, etc. Beginning to see the light just a bit.
Great and unexpected series.
CFrance
10-31-2019, 12:56 PM
As someone who has opposed all the analytics in the game, I must say that I think some of this was a "coming out" party for analytics.
Just ordered a book (Ahead of the curve:inside the baseball revolution) by Brian Kenny of MLB network which promises to allow me to forget the old way of measuring.
Frankly, it seems to work in evaluating but oh so hard for a guy who measured on in Avg, Hits, Rbit, etc. Beginning to see the light just a bit.
Great and unexpected series.
Great, thanks. On my Amazon list.
CFrance
10-31-2019, 01:00 PM
I think the problem is that the strike zone is not the same for every batter. It changes based on the height of the batter. So, the rules would need to be changed to use technology.
I think that would not be difficult with today's technology.
Bucco
10-31-2019, 01:15 PM
I think that would not be difficult with today's technology.
Comish was interviewed on this very subject. One way, and I think he liked it eventually, if BB goes the way of this, keep the umpire behind the plate with ability to know the call and signal it.
Two things he likes on this....first us old timers do not lose the umpire behind the plate, and we all know how tech can go....this would be a back up.
I am not there yet....analytics has been difficult for me but seeing how it seems to work for appraising players and matchups during the game.
CFrance
10-31-2019, 01:49 PM
Comish was interviewed on this very subject. One way, and I think he liked it eventually, if BB goes the way of this, keep the umpire behind the plate with ability to know the call and signal it.
Two things he likes on this....first us old timers do not lose the umpire behind the plate, and we all know how tech can go....this would be a back up.
I am not there yet....analytics has been difficult for me but seeing how it seems to work for appraising players and matchups during the game.
I like the idea of keeping the umpire behind the plate. There are certain calls that need to be made--did the batter swing through or not, did the ball hit the ground before the catcher caught it, what's a foul at the plate, what's not, did the catcher interfere with the runner coming home from third--etc. I think someone's idea up above of having the pitch called into the ump's ear might work out for all of us.
But I'm so disappointed in the wrong calls at the plate. Those calls are so crucial. One sports writer said "In Game 5, the umpire was calling a strike zone that seemed more like a piece of abstract art. No one had any idea what was going on."
And don't get me started on football officiating, whose referees are only part-time employees.
Polar Bear
10-31-2019, 01:53 PM
I think the problem is that the strike zone is not the same for every batter. It changes based on the height of the batter. So, the rules would need to be changed to use technology.
Not a bit. Height of the batter could be handled very easily by the technology.
And FWIW, I'm not in favor of a rule change for a unified strike zone. In every sport, the athlete's body is either an advantage or a disadvantage to milk or overcome. If a bigger or smaller strike zone makes it easier or harder for the batter or pitcher, so be it. Part of the game imo.
biker1
10-31-2019, 02:19 PM
The only rule change I can see is that technology, which already exists, is fully responsible for the determination of balls and strikes. Determining the strike zone for each batter already exists in the current technology. Further refinement is certainly possible. A new rule changing the strike zone? I don't see any need for that.
I think the rules would still need to be changed to establish who and how the strike zone is controlled. As I understand it, the umpire calls the balls and strikes, not a computer generated strike zone. Do you think baseball would be willing to take the umpire out of the game?
blueash
10-31-2019, 04:35 PM
Couldn't disagree with Blueash more on the rule changes. .. I'd rather see the umpires stay and perhaps go to an audible tone that the plate umpire immediately hears indicating strike or not. They've had that technology for years in tennis where a tone is audible when a serve is a fault.
Well, you're not really in disagreement at all about using technology to call balls and strikes. I never said get rid of the ump. I said use technology to call the ball/strikes. You want to have the ump signal to the crowd that's fine with me. I'd agree with that.
I would point out that in hockey the size of the net is not made larger because of a bigger goalie, nor soccer. Nor does a basketball player who is taller have the basket raised so the challenge is equal to that of a shorter player. Only in baseball is a larger person penalized by the rules of the game.
There are interesting websites that track the large variability of the strike zone depending on the pitch count [the pitcher is given a much larger strike zone on 3-0 than on 0-2 counts] and even on right handed vs lefties. And certain pitchers and hitters seem to get the benefit of the doubt. The strike zone is broken and the technology to fix it is available.
I believe every batter should have to defend the same size area. Baseball already acknowledged the problem with size differentials when Gaedel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Gaedel) had his famous moment. If a strike zone can be too short to be fair to the pitcher, I'd argue a hitter can be too tall to be fair to the hitter.
Polar Bear
10-31-2019, 05:01 PM
Only in baseball is a larger person penalized by the rules of the game...
I respect your post. Even agree with a fair amount of it. But the conclusion above is a real stretch imo.
If larger baseball players are punished by the rules of the game, then many different size athletes are penalized by the rules of many games.
Nucky
10-31-2019, 05:50 PM
I hear you all about the importance of getting with it technology-wise but let's go and get a move on. They have been playing ball and hitting the Rock with a Dinosaur Bone for a long time and it worked out fine. Why mess with the way it was? The human factor makes it more fun. Even when the call goes against the team I'm for. That's life.
How are they going to institute these updates into games for the young kids? They are not going to like not having the same computer making calls that their heroes have. Whatever it's only Baseball not Rocket Science.
John_W
10-31-2019, 06:38 PM
Robot Umpires, as they are called, are already in use in minor league games. Umpires have a earpiece that will tell them strike or ball and they simply make the verbal call. The umpire is also there for plays at the plate, foul tips, fair or foul balls, balks, check swings, and anything that requires a human response. The system is called ABS (Automated Ball-Strike System) and is implemented by Trackman.
Robot umpires will continue to be used in Atlantic League for remainder of 2019 season - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/robot-umpires-will-continue-to-be-used-in-atlantic-league-for-remainder-of-2019-season/)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/11/robot-ump-calls-first-professional-game-with-one-hitch-no-controversy/
Bucco
10-31-2019, 07:27 PM
Robot Umpires, as they are called, are already in use in minor league games. Umpires have a earpiece that will tell them strike or ball and they simply make the verbal call. The umpire is also there for plays at the plate, foul tips, fair or foul balls, balks, check swings, and anything that requires a human response. The system is called ABS (Automated Ball-Strike System) and is implemented by Trackman.
Robot umpires will continue to be used in Atlantic League for remainder of 2019 season - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/robot-umpires-will-continue-to-be-used-in-atlantic-league-for-remainder-of-2019-season/)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/11/robot-ump-calls-first-professional-game-with-one-hitch-no-controversy/
Thanks for some great links.
For a guy that started with stickball and worked up, I am amazed and thrilled at the progression of the game. I rejected analytics at first, now getting it. Speeding the game and accuracy is great.
I secretly will still check the old time stats, but boy I have learned to appreciate the new way the last two years.
Seeing and appreciating how the new way has helped develop young players is exciting.
Bucco
10-31-2019, 07:31 PM
I know this thread is based on the "lack of home field advantage" in this series, but I really am impressed on how analytics are used in the player development now. Great game...always has been and remains.
Nucky
10-31-2019, 07:58 PM
Subway Series next year. Yankees in 6.
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