Census Bureau lady would not leave

[Chellybean]

Unbelievable;
A census Bureau lady Came to my property for Census That i already completed and when i asked her to leave she refused and said she had a right to be on my property. NOT so F.S. 810.09
Are you kidding me, who do the H*ll do these people think they are.
They do not have a right no matter what you believe to enter your property and then refuse to leave unbelievable. Be aware folks i had to have the police remove her for coming back.

[blueash]

Are you kidding me, who do the H*ll do these people think they are.

They are census takers. They are employees of an agency mandated by the Constitution, that Constitution, that requires a census be done. They are not state employees and state law does not apply. They do not have to have permission to enter your property as they are acting in accordance with a Constitutional requirement. They may not enter your home without permission They can ignore no trespassing signs. You may ask them to leave, you may refuse to cooperate, you may be as nasty as you like and complain on TOTV.

But they are not trespassing.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Puzzled. I thought the census was next year.

[Chellybean]

They are census takers. They are employees of an agency mandated by the Constitution, that Constitution, that requires a census be done. They are not state employees and state law does not apply. They do not have to have permission to enter your property as they are acting in accordance with a Constitutional requirement. They may not enter your home without permission They can ignore no trespassing signs. You may ask them to leave, you may refuse to cooperate, you may be as nasty as you like and complain on TOTV.

But they are not trespassing.

Wrong you are! State Law does apply F.S. 810.09 and when they are told to leave they are suppose to, Believe what you want!


U.S. Department of Commerce
U.S. Census Bureau
Atlanta Regional Office
101 Marietta Street, NW, Suite 3200
Atlanta, GA 30303-2700

To; George Grandy Jr., Regional Director:
Pursuant to Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution, the only information you are empowered to request is the total number of occupants at one’s address:
“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers…The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.”
Some have erroneously asserted that “in such Manner as they shall by Law direct” means that the Census Bureau may collect any information it so chooses by any means necessary and with any attending punishment they deem appropriate. On the contrary, that phrase only means that by law surveys for enumeration may be conducted via mailings, door-to-door, etc. In other words, the Constitution does not limit the means by which enumeration takes place, whether by mail or in person; this phrase is not a carte blanche, free-for-all for the Census Bureau to ask any questions it likes and employ coercion in order to gain compliance. Within the context of the Constitution — the sole purpose of which is to limit the power of government — there is no way one could or should infer that “in such Manner as they shall by Law direct” means that the founders of our Constitution would have allowed the intrusive line of questioning found either within the “American Community Survey” (ACS) or the “National Health Interview Survey,” and they certainly wouldn’t have condoned the tactics employed by the Census Bureau to glean answers to the overly-personal line of questioning found within these surveys.
Regarding the statutes passed by Congress found in Title 13 of the United States Code (USC) which includes § 5 (Questionnaires; number, form, and scope of inquiries); § 141 (Population and other census information), and § 221 (Penalties for noncompliance), it is clearly understood that these statutes go beyond the purview of the Constitution and are therefore unlawful. Applying the rule of statutory construction, if these statutes are to be construed in a way as to render them constitutional, then “any of the questions” to which § 221 (a) refers are only those necessary for enumeration. As such, one may only be lawfully fined if one refuses to disclose the number of persons residing in one’s household.
Additionally, the Bill of Rights, Amendment X, ‘Reserved Power to States’ reads:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
This important Amendment was intended to confirm the understanding of the people at the time the Constitution was adopted, that powers not granted to the United States were reserved to the States or the people. (United States v. Sprague, U.S.N.J.1931282 U.S. 716; as well as U.S. v. Thibault, C.C.A.N.Y.1931, 47 F.2d 169).
If Congress does not act pursuant to one of the enumerated powers given to it by the Constitution, it is infringing upon those powers which are reserved to the states by the Tenth Amendment (U.S. v. Mussari, D.Ariz.1995, 894 F.Supp. 1360.) Therefore, any legislation beyond the limits of the powers delegated is an invasion of the rights reserved to the states or to the people, and is therefore null and void. (In re Pacific Ry. Commission, C.C.N.D.Cal.1887, 32 F. 241)
Indeed, beyond a head count, the information requested by the “American Community Survey” (ACS) or the “National Health Interview Survey” has absolutely nothing to do with apportioning direct taxes or determining the number of representatives in the House of Representatives. Therefore, neither Congress nor the Census Bureau has the constitutional authority to require the type of information requested by these surveys since they are not a component of the enumeration outlined in Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution. In addition, Americans cannot be subject to a fine for basing their conduct on the Constitution because that document trumps laws passed by Congress.
Interstate Commerce Commission v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 479 (May 26, 1894) observed that,
“Neither branch of the legislative department [House of Representatives or Senate], still less any merely administrative body [such as the Census Bureau or the Department of Health & Human Services], established by congress, possesses, or can be invested with, a general power of making inquiry into the private affairs of the citizen. Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168, 190. We said in Boyd v. U.S., 116 U. S. 616, 630, 6 Sup. Ct. 524,―and it cannot be too often repeated,―that the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and its employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life. As said by Mr. Justice Field in Re Pacific Ry. Commission, 32 Fed. 241, 250, ‘of all the rights of the citizen, few are of greater importance or more essential to his peace and happiness than the right of personal security, and that involves, not merely protection of his person from assault, but exemption of his private affairs, books, and papers from inspection and scrutiny of others. Without the enjoyment of this right, all others would lose half their value’.”
This United States Supreme Court case has never been overturned.
In addition, since the U.S. Supreme Court has determined (and Americans would agree) that “the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and its employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life” then your harassment, surveillance, trespassing, and stalking is that much more conspicuously immoral, unethical, unconstitutional, and criminal.
For instance, your representative had no right to disobey our polite, repeated demands to leave our private property, especially when said property is clearly marked in visible places with signage indicating ‘private property’ and ‘no trespassing’. One of your agents has now criminally trespassed — meaning she trespassed on land that was clearly marked with ‘no trespassing’ and ‘private property’ signs and then refused to leave when politely asked four times to leave and when informed that she was harassing us.
Further, we have no trust that the agents sent to our door are not intent on doing bodily harm since not only has the city had many reports of violations from those going door-to-door purporting to be something other than what they are, there have been reports of Census workers who attacked, stole from, and even raped unsuspecting Americans who were “guilty” of nothing more than engaging in a dialogue with representatives from the U.S. Census Bureau. Some of the Census Bureau’s temporary employees may even have criminal backgrounds – which must come in handy given the tactics they employ to coerce survey respondents into compliance – and yet you expect us to engage them?
Do you really expect us not to be intimidated by your representatives? Do you really expect us to believe that your representatives’ behavior couldn’t potentially do us harm when your agents harassed, surveilled, and stalked us, with one even criminally trespassing on our private property after we politely asked her four times to leave, to which she refused even though we informed her that she was trespassing and harassing us?!
STE*HANIE HE*EN PRESCO*T-SEQUE*RA was formal Trespassed under F.S. 810.09; Should we simply give in to your strong-arm intimidation tactics that are not only unconstitutional, but at this point, criminal? As noted, we have no trust that your representatives aren’t intent on doing us harm when all of their behavior is threatening! Not only is their behavior grossly unAmerican, it is a bully tactic and one that conveys a threat to us and our unalienable 4th amendment right to privacy and the right to be secure in our real property, person, papers, and effects.
As such, we will not be participating in the personally invasive National Health Interview Survey or the American Community Survey and will certainly not be giving in to the coercion resultant of your criminal behavior. As even the Better Business Bureau advises, “No matter what they ask, you really only need to tell them how many people live at your address.” We have done so in accordance with the Constitution. You need no more from us and so we must please ask that you stop harassing us, stop surveilling us, stop trespassing on our private property, and stop contacting us in any way.

[Villageswimmer]

Could you please repost the letter? Maybe it’s my iPad, but the font is pale blue on a beige background.

[Villageswimmer]

Never mind.

[Chellybean]

11/1/19
U.S. Department of Commerce
U.S. Census Bureau
Atlanta Regional Office
101 Marietta Street, NW, Suite 3200
Atlanta, GA 30303-2700

To; George Grandy Jr., Regional Director:
Pursuant to Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution, the only information you are empowered to request is the total number of occupants at one’s address:
“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers…The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.”
Some have erroneously asserted that “in such Manner as they shall by Law direct” means that the Census Bureau may collect any information it so chooses by any means necessary and with any attending punishment they deem appropriate. On the contrary, that phrase only means that by law surveys for enumeration may be conducted via mailings, door-to-door, etc. In other words, the Constitution does not limit the means by which enumeration takes place, whether by mail or in person; this phrase is not a carte blanche, free-for-all for the Census Bureau to ask any questions it likes and employ coercion in order to gain compliance. Within the context of the Constitution — the sole purpose of which is to limit the power of government — there is no way one could or should infer that “in such Manner as they shall by Law direct” means that the founders of our Constitution would have allowed the intrusive line of questioning found either within the “American Community Survey” (ACS) or the “National Health Interview Survey,” and they certainly wouldn’t have condoned the tactics employed by the Census Bureau to glean answers to the overly-personal line of questioning found within these surveys.
Regarding the statutes passed by Congress found in Title 13 of the United States Code (USC) which includes § 5 (Questionnaires; number, form, and scope of inquiries); § 141 (Population and other census information), and § 221 (Penalties for noncompliance), it is clearly understood that these statutes go beyond the purview of the Constitution and are therefore unlawful. Applying the rule of statutory construction, if these statutes are to be construed in a way as to render them constitutional, then “any of the questions” to which § 221 (a) refers are only those necessary for enumeration. As such, one may only be lawfully fined if one refuses to disclose the number of persons residing in one’s household.
Additionally, the Bill of Rights, Amendment X, ‘Reserved Power to States’ reads:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
This important Amendment was intended to confirm the understanding of the people at the time the Constitution was adopted, that powers not granted to the United States were reserved to the States or the people. (United States v. Sprague, U.S.N.J.1931282 U.S. 716; as well as U.S. v. Thibault, C.C.A.N.Y.1931, 47 F.2d 169).
If Congress does not act pursuant to one of the enumerated powers given to it by the Constitution, it is infringing upon those powers which are reserved to the states by the Tenth Amendment (U.S. v. Mussari, D.Ariz.1995, 894 F.Supp. 1360.) Therefore, any legislation beyond the limits of the powers delegated is an invasion of the rights reserved to the states or to the people, and is therefore null and void. (In re Pacific Ry. Commission, C.C.N.D.Cal.1887, 32 F. 241)
Indeed, beyond a head count, the information requested by the “American Community Survey” (ACS) or the “National Health Interview Survey” has absolutely nothing to do with apportioning direct taxes or determining the number of representatives in the House of Representatives. Therefore, neither Congress nor the Census Bureau has the constitutional authority to require the type of information requested by these surveys since they are not a component of the enumeration outlined in Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution. In addition, Americans cannot be subject to a fine for basing their conduct on the Constitution because that document trumps laws passed by Congress.
Interstate Commerce Commission v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 479 (May 26, 1894) observed that,
“Neither branch of the legislative department [House of Representatives or Senate], still less any merely administrative body [such as the Census Bureau or the Department of Health & Human Services], established by congress, possesses, or can be invested with, a general power of making inquiry into the private affairs of the citizen. Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168, 190. We said in Boyd v. U.S., 116 U. S. 616, 630, 6 Sup. Ct. 524,―and it cannot be too often repeated,―that the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and its employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life. As said by Mr. Justice Field in Re Pacific Ry. Commission, 32 Fed. 241, 250, ‘of all the rights of the citizen, few are of greater importance or more essential to his peace and happiness than the right of personal security, and that involves, not merely protection of his person from assault, but exemption of his private affairs, books, and papers from inspection and scrutiny of others. Without the enjoyment of this right, all others would lose half their value’.”
This United States Supreme Court case has never been overturned.
In addition, since the U.S. Supreme Court has determined (and Americans would agree) that “the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and its employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life” then your harassment, surveillance, trespassing, and stalking is that much more conspicuously immoral, unethical, unconstitutional, and criminal.
For instance, your representative had no right to disobey our polite, repeated demands to leave our private property, especially when said property is clearly marked in visible places with signage indicating ‘private property’ and ‘no trespassing’. One of your agents has now criminally trespassed — meaning she trespassed on land that was clearly marked with ‘no trespassing’ and ‘private property’ signs and then refused to leave when politely asked four times to leave and when informed that she was harassing us.
Further, we have no trust that the agents sent to our door are not intent on doing bodily harm since not only has the city had many reports of violations from those going door-to-door purporting to be something other than what they are, there have been reports of Census workers who attacked, stole from, and even raped unsuspecting Americans who were “guilty” of nothing more than engaging in a dialogue with representatives from the U.S. Census Bureau. Some of the Census Bureau’s temporary employees may even have criminal backgrounds – which must come in handy given the tactics they employ to coerce survey respondents into compliance – and yet you expect us to engage them?
Do you really expect us not to be intimidated by your representatives? Do you really expect us to believe that your representatives’ behavior couldn’t potentially do us harm when your agents harassed, surveilled, and stalked us, with one even criminally trespassing on our private property after we politely asked her four times to leave, to which she refused even though we informed her that she was trespassing and harassing us?!
STEPH*NIE H*LEN PRE*COTT-SEQU**RA was formal Trespassed under F.S. 810.09; Should we simply give in to your strong-arm intimidation tactics that are not only unconstitutional, but at this point, criminal? As noted, we have no trust that your representatives aren’t intent on doing us harm when all of their behavior is threatening! Not only is their behavior grossly unAmerican, it is a bully tactic and one that conveys a threat to us and our unalienable 4th amendment right to privacy and the right to be secure in our real property, person, papers, and effects.
As such, we will not be participating in the personally invasive National Health Interview Survey or the American Community Survey and will certainly not be giving in to the coercion resultant of your criminal behavior. As even the Better Business Bureau advises, “No matter what they ask, you really only need to tell them how many people live at your address.” We have done so in accordance with the Constitution. You need no more from us and so we must please ask that you stop harassing us, stop surveilling us, stop trespassing on our private property, and stop contacting us in any way.

[Chellybean]

Could you please repost the letter? Maybe it’s my iPad, but the font is pale blue on a beige background.

Sorry it must of been when i was changing color so it was easier to read.

[EdFNJ]

TL;DR but wouldn't this person have been "authorized" or maybe licensed by Federal law (obviously not invited)? Just wondering.

----------------------------------------
CRIMES
Chapter 810
BURGLARY AND TRESPASS

View Entire Chapter
810.09 Trespass on property other than structure or conveyance.—
(1)(a) A person who, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters upon or remains in any property other than a structure or conveyance:

[blueash]

That's a lovely long citation of a letter somebody wrote to the census bureau which I found in part on the perhaps less than authoritative website nopitbullsban dot com. It is not a legal opinion on the Constitutional basis of the census. It expresses concerns that census workers might rape you and steal from you. Does that lady look like she presents a threat to you? I agree with your opinion that a census worker should leave when told to leave. I believe they are instructed to do so.
The Supreme Court has opined on the lawfulness of census workers ignoring no trespass signs and found that census workers can ignore such signs JAMES ROBERT CHRISTENSEN, JR., Petitioner, vs. STATE OF TENNESSEE, Respondent.

[graciegirl]

I don't recall ever having any problem with Census takers. In fact, I don't think I have ever talked to any in my life.

I don't understand the problem if any.

So, Chellybean, a woman knocked on your door from the U.S. Census and you said you weren't interested in answering her questions and she then said...………?


I am sure that there is an issue here that I don't understand.

If someone came to our house to take the Census, I would think of them as someone doing their job.

[Chellybean]

That's a lovely long citation of a letter somebody wrote to the census bureau which I found in part on the perhaps less than authoritative website nopitbullsban dot com. It is not a legal opinion on the Constitutional basis of the census. It expresses concerns that census workers might rape you and steal from you. Does that lady look like she presents a threat to you? I agree with your opinion that a census worker should leave when told to leave. I believe they are instructed to do so.
The Supreme Court has opined on the lawfulness of census workers ignoring no trespass signs and found that census workers can ignore such signs JAMES ROBERT CHRISTENSEN, JR., Petitioner, vs. STATE OF TENNESSEE, Respondent.

as i am sure there can be Case law on both side to chock a horse it has been a moot issue since the census was adopted in 1929 and revised in 1960 and 1970. Their has been no prosecution since the late 60's.
As to whether or not the lady is a criminal?
You where not exposed to her bad behavior and can you tell me what a criminal looks like and acts like.
For someone to tell me they are not leaving after i told them to go 3 times is unacceptable, and the Truth is they are trained this way. I can tell you she will not come back or she will be arrested; rest assure.
As we all know some pretty powerfull people are criminals in the past. JMHO

[villagetinker]

OK, this confused me, here is what I found:

Census takers are going out in advance of the actual mailing to verify addresses, etc. see: Census Takers in Your Neighborhood (https://2020census.gov/en/census-takers.html)

According to the interactive map referenced on the above website the villages does NOT appear to be a location where there will be address confirmations, see: https://gis-portal.data.census.gov/arcgis/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=1a0004d1745547888c8fd2f4d929d42f

The Local regional census office for Florida is the:
The Atlanta office serves:
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Mississippi
North Carolina
South Carolina

To contact this office, call 470-889-6800.

Hope this helps.

[Villageswimmer]

Unbelievable;
A census Bureau lady Came to my property for Census That i already completed and when i asked her to leave she refused and said she had a right to be on my property. NOT so F.S. 810.09
Are you kidding me, who do the H*ll do these people think they are.
They do not have a right no matter what you believe to enter your property and then refuse to leave unbelievable. Be aware folks i had to have the police remove her for coming back.


So, she stayed even knowing you called the Sheriff?What did the deputy do/say when he got there?

[Chellybean]

OK, this confused me, here is what I found:

Census takers are going out in advance of the actual mailing to verify addresses, etc. see: Census Takers in Your Neighborhood (https://2020census.gov/en/census-takers.html)

According to the interactive map referenced on the above website the villages does NOT appear to be a location where there will be address confirmations, see: ArcGIS Web Application (https://gis-portal.data.census.gov/arcgis/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=1a0004d1745547888c8fd2f4d929d42f)

The Local regional census office for Florida is the:
The Atlanta office serves:
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Mississippi
North Carolina
South Carolina

To contact this office, call 470-889-6800.

Hope this helps.

Sorry Friend i can't tell you what motivated this person to come to my house Period.
It could of been simple when she started to question me at my Garage door that was open i knew who and what she was by the question she asked. I simply said i am not interested and have a nice day. If she simple turned around and left, there would of been no issues,
Instead she decided to tell me she had the right to be on my property and wouldn't leave(WRONG)
I told her three times she was trespassing and finally the police removed her and Set up a trespassing warning in there data base and told her not to come back or she would be arrested!

[Chellybean]

So, she stayed even knowing you called the Sheriff?What did the deputy do/say when he got there?

Yup ! how is that for a set Of B*lls

[Dutchman]

Having been a supervisor for the Census Bureau I might shed a bit of light on the post- 1) This was not the "Census" otherwise know as the decennial census which is next year and will primarily be done by mail- 2) This person was doing a survey by the Census Bureau under contract by another government agency, maybe Health, Justice, HUD or another- 3)The person is authorized to attempt to contact the randomly selected household to gather information and be persuasive but not belligerent and if refused to leave the premises- 4) The surveys are designed to collect information to be used by the sponsor department to determine the effectiveness of federal programs and where additional emphasis may be needed.

The most used of these surveys is the American Community Survey which has statistical data used by local and state governments and corporate planners to determine available and needed resources in a given area, usually a Metropolitan Statistical Area as mentioned in posts regarding the Sumter tax increase.

If you are approached by one of these enumerators and have any questions ask them for their supervisor's name and phone #.
That is what the police would have/should have done with this
person. Have experienced this several times in the past

[retiredguy123]

Having been a supervisor for the Census Bureau I might shed a bit of light on the post- 1) This was not the "Census" otherwise know as the decennial census which is next year and will primarily be done by mail- 2) This person was doing a survey by the Census Bureau under contract by another government agency, maybe Health, Justice, HUD or another- 3)The person is authorized to attempt to contact the randomly selected household to gather information and be persuasive but not belligerent and if refused to leave the premises- 4) The surveys are designed to collect information to be used by the sponsor department to determine the effectiveness of federal programs and where additional emphasis may be needed.

The most used of these surveys is the American Community Survey which has statistical data used by local and state governments and corporate planners to determine available and needed resources in a given area, usually a Metropolitan Statistical Area as mentioned in posts regarding the Sumter tax increase.

If you are approached by one of these enumerators and have any questions ask them for their supervisor's name and phone #.
That is what the police would have/should have done with this
person. Have experienced this several times in the past
That is not what the Census Bureau web site says. They claim that they are conducting a 2019 census "test" in advance of the 2020 census to determine the viability of the proposed question about citizenship. They are not under contract with another agency. It sounds to me that these are census employees with the same legal representative and power as the official 2020 census employees will have.

[GoPacers]

I'm not sure it matters why they were there. What were the questions that were so offensive that one would want to refuse to answer, assuming this was an authorized census worker?

[Chellybean]

That is not what the Census Bureau web site says. They claim that they are conducting a 2019 census "test" in advance of the 2020 census to determine the viability of the proposed question about citizenship. They are not under contract with another agency. It sounds to me that these are census employees with the same legal representative and power as the official 2020 census employees will have.

Having been a supervisor for the Census Bureau I might shed a bit of light on the post- 1) This was not the "Census" otherwise know as the decennial census which is next year and will primarily be done by mail- 2) This person was doing a survey by the Census Bureau under contract by another government agency, maybe Health, Justice, HUD or another- 3)The person is authorized to attempt to contact the randomly selected household to gather information and be persuasive but not belligerent and if refused to leave the premises- 4) The surveys are designed to collect information to be used by the sponsor department to determine the effectiveness of federal programs and where additional emphasis may be needed.

The most used of these surveys is the American Community Survey which has statistical data used by local and state governments and corporate planners to determine available and needed resources in a given area, usually a Metropolitan Statistical Area as mentioned in posts regarding the Sumter tax increase.

If you are approached by one of these enumerators and have any questions ask them for their supervisor's name and phone #.
That is what the police would have/should have done with this
person. Have experienced this several times in the past.

As to address both of your folks comments, i can not tell you who it is exactly in a government institution this Lady worked for.
Regardless of who they work for F.S 810.09 apply s especially when they are told to leave. Unfortunately this lady thought she had some authority.
Unfortunately even a Police office coming onto you property needs to be answering a complaint, serving a warranty or to arrest you for a crime. Or be serving a Order by a judge to question you.
Most people do not understand there rights and even the Deputy had to call his supervisor and the supervisor call his watch commander LT. to know what to do. AT the End F.S.810.09 applies.
Now if this went to court i could bet that there would of been a federal and State ****ing contest; and what to do with this case, it would probably be thrown out but the Census Bureau would be warned to not violate privacy policy's.

[Chellybean]

I'm not sure it matters why they were there. What were the questions that were so offensive that one would want to refuse to answer, assuming this was an authorized census worker?

I was asked who are you. do you live here in a snod attitude without so much as addressing who she was and from where! until i asked her to leave. Not acceptable.

[Bogie Shooter]

OK, this confused me, here is what I found:

Census takers are going out in advance of the actual mailing to verify addresses, etc. see: Census Takers in Your Neighborhood (https://2020census.gov/en/census-takers.html)

According to the interactive map referenced on the above website the villages does NOT appear to be a location where there will be address confirmations, see: ArcGIS Web Application (https://gis-portal.data.census.gov/arcgis/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=1a0004d1745547888c8fd2f4d929d42f)

The Local regional census office for Florida is the:
The Atlanta office serves:
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Mississippi
North Carolina
South Carolina

To contact this office, call 470-889-6800.

Hope this helps.

We had a person doing the survey work here in our village neighborhood. It was one of those hot days back in the summer. I approached her asking why she was walking around on such a nice day. She was polite and friendly and explained what she was doing....and showed me her ID info without being asked.
I guess it’s all in how you treat people...

[Chellybean]

We had a person doing the survey work here in our village neighborhood. It was one of those hot days back in the summer. I approached her asking why she was walking around on such a nice day. She was polite and friendly and explained what she was doing....and showed me her ID info without being asked.
I guess it’s all in how you treat people...

Yes i would agree and that lady didn't handle it correctly.
a couple month ago someone was driving around in a vehicle stopping at each house.
I also asked her what she was doing and she was very polite and answered my question. Driving around and stopping in-front of your neighbors house sometimes looks very suspicious, and her decal on the windows weren't very noticeable.
Thank You for your point of view.

[Bogie Shooter]

We had a person doing the survey work here in our village neighborhood. It was one of those hot days back in the summer. I approached her asking why she was walking around on such a nice day. She was polite and friendly and explained what she was doing....and showed me her ID info without being asked.
I guess it’s all in how you treat people...

Yes i would agree and that lady didn't handle it correctly.
a couple month ago someone was driving around in a vehicle stopping at each house.
I also asked her what she was doing and she was very polite and answered my question. Driving around and stopping in-front of your neighbors house sometimes looks very suspicious, and her decal on the windows weren't very noticeable.
Thank You for your point of view.

I guess its all in how you treat people.....
Can go both ways.

[Chellybean]

I guess its all in how you treat people.....
Can go both ways.

I am not sure if you are implying I was not treating her properly?

[Topspinmo]

They are census takers. They are employees of an agency mandated by the Constitution, that Constitution, that requires a census be done. They are not state employees and state law does not apply. They do not have to have permission to enter your property as they are acting in accordance with a Constitutional requirement. They may not enter your home without permission They can ignore no trespassing signs. You may ask them to leave, you may refuse to cooperate, you may be as nasty as you like and complain on TOTV.

But they are not trespassing.

The path to you’re front door is public property. Anywhere else is trespassing. You don’t have the right to decline the service.

[Bogie Shooter]

I am not sure if you are implying I was not treating her properly?

Reread your posts......your anger is still evident.

[EdFNJ]

The path to you’re front door is public property. Anywhere else is trespassing. You don’t have the right to decline the service.

That is interesting. What if there was a fence with a locked gate around your property as there is in a lot of rural and urban areas? Can they jump the fence to walk up your "public" sidewalk? Is it no longer public if it is gated? Is that a legal decision somewhere? That can make for interesting circumstances.

Actually here is some interesting legal decisions/opinions as it pertains to police:
Can the Police Go to the Front Door of a Home Marked With "No Trespassing" Signs? - The Volokh Conspiracy (http://volokh.com/2013/09/03/can-police-enter-property-marked-trespassing-signs-take-two/)

[Dutchman]

The opening statement from a census enumerator is[/B]"Hello, I am xxxxx from the U S Census Bureau, here is my id. We are conducting the xxx survey and your address, not you individually, was selected to be part of this survey. Do you have a few minutes to answer some questions?[/B]" If the person did not state that in some close form then they were not doing their job properly and a call to the supervisor would be in order. Enumerators are graded on- following procedures, obtaining results and the accuracy of the data recorded. Supervisors routinely call survey respondents on a random basis to verify that the person is doing the job they were assigned.
I can't speak for the Atlanta region but I know in the Phila region an enumerator is shadowed by their supervisor during their initial assignment and on an annual basis and rated on everything from that opening statement to how they ask survey questions, their politeness and sincerity, and how they record the answers.
As for police involvement, I have had several evening calls from police questioning the validity of the enumerator. When I explained what they were doing there never was a problem.

In short, this person was not properly trained or they were having a bad day from other respondents not willing to talk to them. In the end it sounds like "you reap what you sow" for both parties involved.:pray:

[Chellybean]

The path to you’re front door is public property. Anywhere else is trespassing. You don’t have the right to decline the service.

OMG the path to the front door is NOT PUBLIC PROPERTY! where in gods name did you get that?

[Spoiler]

If the OP didn’t want to talk to the census person, couldn’t they just go in the house and shut the door?

[Chellybean]

If the OP didn’t want to talk to the census person, couldn’t they just go in the house and shut the door?

why do i have to leave my garage on my own property due to some nut case that doesn't want to leave the property. I prefer calling the Police to reinforce them not to come back F.S.810.09 is very powerful in Florida and one of the best states that enforce the NO Trespassing laws.

[Toymeister]

Puzzled. I thought the census was next year.
It is Fiscal Year (FY) 20 and it has been for over one month. The relevance of this is the labor (workers) are paid by FY.

[Two Bills]

Just by reading the argument and differing interpretation of who can or can't go where, or do what, etc. just shows why most lawyers are rolling in the greenstuff! :icon_wink:

[graciegirl]

If the OP didn’t want to talk to the census person, couldn’t they just go in the house and shut the door?

I cannot agree more. I see no issue here. In my whole life I have not ever seen anyone get upset about someone coming to their door. I never lived in a dangerous area either. This is a very safe area. Making issues out of non issues and mountains out of molehills is what this whole thing looks like to me.

I feel bad for the lady. I would have to think this was probably the first time in her life the police were called on her.

If someone comes to my door trying to sell me something or trying to convert me, I just say No, thank you. If I peep out and profile them, as a mass murderer, a visitor from another planet or if they have a large snarling and barking animal with them, I just wave through the side panel and shoo them away...Ditto with folks with large running sores.

There is no reason to get all worked up over silly things or be unkind to innocent people trying to make a living.

[Nucky]

Based on past posting I don't really ever remember Chelleybean having a problem with anybody before. To me this is important.

So we have a fine member of our Community (Chellybean) being badgered by someone who actually works for her.

I side Totally and Heavily with and for Chelleybean. Why do we have to interrupt out days for Door Knockers? Get outta my life and off my property.

This is the time that coming from the place where people have a chip on their shoulder helps. A simple grunt with no words would have done the job for me.

The women in Chelly's picture looked like a nut job and you can't be too careful nowadays. If she didn't offer I.D. immediately she could have been deadly wrong.

I know if I was doing her job in a state where people are Strapped I'd be a little more careful and kind when greeting someone.

Bravo to you Chelleybean for standing up for yourself. I hope you can go back to your peaceful life.

[Madelaine Amee]

I cannot agree more. I see no issue here. In my whole life I have not ever seen anyone get upset about someone coming to their door. I never lived in a dangerous area either. This is a very safe area. Making issues out of non issues and mountains out of molehills is what this whole thing looks like to me.

I feel bad for the lady. I would have to think this was probably the first time in her life the police were called on her.

If someone comes to my door trying to sell me something or trying to convert me, I just say No, thank you. If I peep out and profile them, as a mass murderer, a visitor from another planet or if they have a large snarling and barking animal with them, I just wave through the side panel and shoo them away...Ditto with folks with large running sores.

There is no reason to get all worked up over silly things or be unkind to innocent people trying to make a living.

Rarely do I agree with Gracie, but in this case I do wholeheartedly. The OP appears to have issues with anyone being on his property.

[graciegirl]

Based on past posting I don't really ever remember Chelleybean having a problem with anybody before. To me this is important.

So we have a fine member of our Community (Chellybean) being badgered by someone who actually works for her.

I side Totally and Heavily with and for Chelleybean. Why do we have to interrupt out days for Door Knockers? Get outta my life and off my property.

This is the time that coming from the place where people have a chip on their shoulder helps. A simple grunt with no words would have done the job for me.

The women in Chelly's picture looked like a nut job and you can't be too careful nowadays. If she didn't offer I.D. immediately she could have been deadly wrong.

I know if I was doing her job in a state where people are Strapped I'd be a little more careful and kind when greeting someone.

Bravo to you Chelleybean for standing up for yourself. I hope you can go back to your peaceful life.

Chellybean is a guy. Not that either one of us is sexist.

The lady did have I.D. on her around her neck or on her shirt. See here?

So Nucky? What makes you think the lady was unkind and persistent? That doesn't seem like you at all.



2020 Census Jobs - Be A Census Taker (https://www.census.gov/library/video/2019/2020-census-jobs-be-a-census-taker.html)

[Nucky]

Chellybean is a guy. Not that either one of us is sexist.

The lady did have I.D. on her around her neck or on her shirt. See here?

I think our responses are in line with our cultural and geographic upbringing.

So Nucky? What makes you think the lady was unkind and persistent? That doesn't seem like you at all.



2020 Census Jobs - Be A Census Taker (https://www.census.gov/library/video/2019/2020-census-jobs-be-a-census-taker.html)

There is not an I.D. around her neck as I am accustomed to seeing it there. She is carrying her I.D. The thing around her neck is the pull strings for her hoodie.

She parked on the wrong side of the street, blocked the driveway if that is in fact her car and I wouldn't speak to anyone who presented themselves at my home who was in the wild shape that she was presented in. Dress appropriately, give me some confidence immediately that you are not a Fugazy.

You are correct about the regional thing. Nobody would have this problem in the old Hood. :boxing2:

[graciegirl]

I remember being baffled by a similar thread on this Forum. Here is is, on trespassing.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/trespassing-tax-appraisers-13383/?highlight=People+trespassing+yard


I think that some people have bigger issues with this than others and I am not sure why.

[graciegirl]

There is not an I.D. around her neck as I am accustomed to seeing it there. She is carrying her I.D. The thing around her neck is the pull strings for her hoodie.

She parked on the wrong side of the street, blocked the driveway if that is in fact her car and I wouldn't speak to anyone who presented themselves at my home who was in the wild shape that she was presented in. Dress appropriately, give me some confidence immediately that you are not a Fugazy.

You are correct about the regional thing. Nobody would have this problem in the old Hood. :boxing2:


You are right as usual about her carrying her I.D.




The rest about dressing??? I would question she was sane. When lately has it been cool enough to wear that???

[Carla B]

As regards her mode of dress, what time did this happen? If it was early in the morning it was chilly outside. People on the golf course were bundled up. Also, if it was early, that is not a civilized time for a stranger to be asking questions, IMO. The only reason I'd be up is to go to the airport or hospital, with no inclination to be chatty in either case.

[Bogie Shooter]

If all the accusations about the lady are true....so what.
She is one out of hundreds doing the same job. Happens all the time in many situations, one bad apple.
Let it go......

[Villageswimmer]

[QUOTE=Chellybean;
Most people do not understand there rights and even the Deputy had to call his supervisor and the supervisor call his watch commander LT. to know what to do. AT the End F.S.810.09 applies.
Now if this went to court i could bet that there would of been a federal and State ****ing contest; and what to do with this case, it would probably be thrown out but the Census Bureau would be warned to not violate privacy policy's.[/QUOTE]


So, after all the confusion among LEOs, what happened? Was she arrested? How did she respond to the Deputy?

[graciegirl]

I have never heard of "F.S.810.09" . It must be an issue in other states than Ohio and Indiana and Florida where I have lived.

I will look it up.

I did. I still don't know what it is. Here is what I found with some references to fertilizer and animals and a couple of things from trespassing lawyers down by Miami. Is this a county thing???


f.s.810.09 - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=f.s.810.09&form=EDGHPT&qs=PF&cvid=df6ce0278b01414194e98ef2b0e27bf3&refig=d0250af795a94348a20744ca7a8bfa39&cc=US&setlang=en-US&elv=AXK1c4IvZoNqPoPnS%21QRLOMLSdIwc1MIWqNxxMjyNGUF KIEonyJCxQwejTcHxV*LcTsdXw6KFGFtD4EDZcsBOe9qfcqBY2 uaXj3jFFt903Zr&plvar=0&PC=DCTS)


Oh wait...…..I found this; https://www.husseinandwebber.com/crimes/property-crimes/trespass/

[graciegirl]

My assessment of this trespassing business is that each area of our country is a little different in how the laws view trespassing.

In some it is considered far worse than others. For instance, in Ohio one of the things I just read was that it was o.k. for hunters to "retrieve felled game from another's property".

Each of us has probably been raised up thinking differently about the laws. I know that my mother would have skinned me alive if she found MYSELF on a neighbors property at dinner time.

[BobnBev]

The path to you’re front door is public property. Anywhere else is trespassing. You don’t have the right to decline the service.

Wrong in so many ways.

[Chellybean]

I cannot agree more. I see no issue here. In my whole life I have not ever seen anyone get upset about someone coming to their door. I never lived in a dangerous area either. This is a very safe area. Making issues out of non issues and mountains out of molehills is what this whole thing looks like to me.

I feel bad for the lady. I would have to think this was probably the first time in her life the police were called on her.

If someone comes to my door trying to sell me something or trying to convert me, I just say No, thank you. If I peep out and profile them, as a mass murderer, a visitor from another planet or if they have a large snarling and barking animal with them, I just wave through the side panel and shoo them away...Ditto with folks with large running sores.

There is no reason to get all worked up over silly things or be unkind to innocent people trying to make a living.

Rarely do I agree with Gracie, but in this case I do wholeheartedly. The OP appears to have issues with anyone being on his property.

I have issue with people that are not invited and will not leave when asked too, how hard is that for someone to understand?

[kstew43]

I have issue with people that are not invited and will not leave when asked too, how hard is that for someone to understand?

you did the right thing for you, and I support your decision. Don't let anyone else tell you what you should have done.....

They were not there.....you were......

[Chellybean]

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0810/Sections/0810.09.html)

[Chellybean]

Your anger is still evident, now directed at others.

you did the right thing for you, and I support your decision. Don't let anyone else tell you what you should have done.....

They were not there.....you were......

Your correct!
When someone was not there and did not experience what i did i don't like the short judgement in how i handled it. JMHO

[PennBF]

I do quite a bit of Ancestor tracking of family and for friends if they ask and the Census module in Ancestor.com and My Heritage is really useful at times. In a number of cases it provides the family members in the home at the time, ages, etc etc. These statistics are valuable in establishing a number of Gov. bases. It is also hard work to go to each home and secure the information. It is unfortunate that some are reluctant if not just plain refusing to provide the data which in the end is for their benefit. Also there are the groups that have become so paranoid at any intrusion by anyone they can't distinguish the good from the bad. :ohdear:

[Marathon Man]

I agree with some of the others. There is too much anger in this story to trust in its accuracy.