Student loans/debt responsibility?

[billethkid]

I remember when I applied and was approved. I could not have been happier.

Oh but I was happier.....10 years later when I made my final payment.

Being one who honored their obligation while raising a family, buying a home, et al.....I am not a supporter of student loan forgiveness. All those who committed to repay, like me, knew what they were opting in for when they applied for and signed for the loan(s).

There is no excuse for not honoring the obligation and paying back the loan(s). Prudent and responsible budgeting makes it happen.

Not sure how long the thread will last before some posting violations cause it to be closed.....we'll see.

What would be next? Mortgage or car payment forgiveness for many of the same excuses?????

[tophcfa]

I remember when I applied and was approved. I could not have been happier.

Oh but I was happier.....10 years later when I made my final payment.

Being one who honored their obligation while raising a family, buying a home, et al.....I am not a supporter of student loan forgiveness. All those who committed to repay, like me, knew what they were opting in for when they applied for and signed for the loan(s).

There is no excuse for not honoring the obligation and paying back the loan(s). Prudent and responsible budgeting makes it happen.

Not sure how long the thread will last before some posting violations cause it to be closed.....we'll see.

I totally agree, it encourages irresponsibility. And what kind of message does it send to those who planned, budgeted, and sacrificed to pay for their educations?

[Taltarzac725]

I almost have my U of MN Law School loan paid off. Been a hard road though. Could not use my law and librarianship degrees because I ****ed off the powers that be in law librarianship by wanting to be honest about the affect of the 2-24-1976 (my birthday) murder of Michelle Mitchell near the U of Nevada, Reno campus on me while I was earning four degrees and had represented prisoners through Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoners, a clinic at the U of MN Law School. My immediately prior Law Library Director at the U of MN became Law Librarian of Congress in around 1990. They made my concern about a niche in practical information for survivors/victims of crimes my psychological problem. Or sort of. At least my personal concern rather than a rightful concern of law librarians around the world.

I had to do this as a hobby from mid 1991 while enlisting any one I could think of to solve it through other ways, i.e. victims/witness assistance groups, Governors, religious groups, celebrities in many areas, etc.

[l2ridehd]

It encourages bad behavior. Does not teach anything. Allows the teaching of the political agenda colleges drive into young minds to continue. That is the major reason politicians want the loans forgiven. It encourages current students to borrow more as they will believe they will never have to repay the loans. And it slaps all of us who paid off our loans right in the face.

[Ben Franklin]

College bound students should have been able to take out those loans at the same rate banks get to borrow money. Extremely profitable Corporations get tons our tax dollars, while paying no taxes and actually getting money back. The Federal Flood Insurance program is $25+ billion in the hole. Guess who will have to pay that down? I paid my own way through college, no help from my parents. However, back then, college wasn't as costly as it is today. I also started a business back in 1982. My loan rate was an immoral 20%, and I was able to pay it off ahead of time. Perhaps the answer is to allow these kids to refinance at the same rate banks pay for loans, with the stipulation they stay with that bank for all of their banking needs, until their loans are paid off. Banks are cash cows for the owners.

[asianthree]

Our 3 children have $500,000 plus each in student loans. All are still paying

[karostay]

Our 3 children have $500,000 plus each in student loans. All are still paying

Do they all have good careers as a result of the student loans ?

[Kenswing]

If you borrow money you should pay it back. Why is that becoming such a hard concept to understand?

[Velvet]

Wow! $500,000... I suppose that is part of being in a capitalist economy. The universities can charge whatever people are willing to pay. It used to be in my native country only 4% of the population attended university/ higher education and it was almost free tuition. But entrance was based on ability. Degrees actually meant something.

These days it is practically expected that you get higher education or else! And then which prestigious institution.

My daughter wanted a top University and she earned a full scholarship which paid for her residence as well. I also studied on scholarship which not only paid tuition and residence but also my child care. So we graduated with no debts but we really worked hard for it.

My heart goes out for those who need to pay these very large student debts. But it still amazes me that everyone, now days, needs to go to college. The more percentage of the population who attend college the less the degree actually means. It is like athletics if anyone can play, how good can the team be?

[Chi-Town]

Had a home loan, paid it off. Had a car loan, paid it off. Had a student loan, paid it off. That's what you do.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[CWGUY]

Had a home loan, paid it off. Had a car loan, paid it off. Had a student loan, paid it off. That's what you do.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

:agree: Sounds like you did the same thing I did, WORKED for a living! You do know some people...... VOTE for a living? :oops:

[retiredguy123]

College costs are too high and will continue to increase as long as student loans are easy to get. The loans should be harder to get, especially for degrees that do not provide the earning potential to pay off the loan. Also, more work/study degree programs should be available, so the student can earn money while they are getting a degree.

Also, I don't agree with those who say that not everyone should get a college degree. Anyone can earn a degree, regardless of intelligence, and it will be an asset for your entire life. Often, having a degree will enable you to get a job even if you don't know anything. I have seen many people, especially in the Government, earning huge incomes with little or no talent at all, just because they have a college degree.

[asianthree]

All three had full rides, for undergrad. By the time you finish your residency, then your fellow into your field. Half a million plus is pretty common for specialized physicians. All are children happy with their field.

Our granddaughter, is in premed, full ride. We all have had the conversation about physicians debt starting a practice, and MALPRACTICE cost. Other physicians she has shadowed have had discussions with her.

At 3 she announced she wanted to be a doctor, while she reading X-rays with her grandpa, at the office. She asked for a grays anatomy for her 5 birthday.

She is going To be an Orthopedic Surgeon with eyes wide open.

[Velvet]

College costs are too high and will continue to increase as long as student loans are easy to get. The loans should be harder to get, especially for degrees that do not provide the earning potential to pay off the loan. Also, more work/study degree programs should be available, so the student can earn money while they are getting a degree.

Also, I don't agree with those who say that not everyone should get a college degree. Anyone can earn a degree, regardless of intelligence, and it will be an asset for your entire life. Often, having a degree will enable you to get a job even if you don't know anything. I have seen many people, especially in the Government, earning huge incomes with little or no talent at all, just because they have a college degree.

Well, if everybody should have a college degree, then let’s just go to the store and buy the degree we like - sort of like a television set. The original idea of what is a university, does not apply. The degree means nothing anyways....

There is a common perception among some people that the applied degrees, those that are directly used for professions, like engineering, doctors etc where you get a good salary afterwards, are the more valuable ones. That the theoretical degrees or the pure arts and sciences such as philosophy, mathematics, history etc are less important or less valuable - yet the reason why we get a PhD (doctor of philosophy) is because that was the origin of the university; philosophy. It is the theorists that drive research and the future while the applied sciences are simply the tools that are developed as a result. The difference to me is like being able to develop theoretically the formulas on your own, as in calculus for example, as compared to simply being taught the formulas and applying them (like engineers do).

[retiredguy123]

Well, if everybody should have a college degree, then let’s just go to the store and buy the degree we like - sort of like a television set. The original idea of what is a university, does not apply. The degree means nothing anyways....
I agree, if it were possible. In our society, having a college degree creates an illusion of knowledge that may or may not exist. It has been that way for a long time. Many job openings require the applicants to have a degree, but many applicants, who have a degree, have no more knowledge or capability as those without a degree. This is very true with Government jobs, where many jobs require a degree, but don't require any knowledge, intelligence, or skills at all. So, I recommend that every young person spend 4 years and get a degree. It will be time well spent that will provide an asset to use for the rest of your life. After all, what are you going to do for 4 years after high school that will really be worth more than a college degree?

[Bonnevie]

while I agree that students should be responsible for what they borrowed, I think the lending rates should have been less than what they were and I would support re-writing of the loans with low interest. After all, if we could give the big banks no interest bail outs during the recession, we should be able to help the students. Remember, tuition is about 200 times what it was when we went to college and I can remember that there was an interest free period after graduation when you could pay off the loan if you were able to save enough. It's graduate school that's killing the young kids....the private loans that they have to take to cover expenses have interest accruing immediately. Too often, we look at things thru the lens of what we went thru and think things are the same--they are not. A one bedroom one bath apartment in Orlando is $1300-- a lot to pay when you are in your first job.

[retiredguy123]

So, taxpayers who don't have a degree at all should finance someone who wants to go to graduate school? I don't agree with that. You can work for a few years and then pay your own way to graduate school, or get a private loan. The current student loan debt is 1.6 trillion dollars. Way too much.

[Velvet]

It took me, personally, a long time, decades, after earning many degrees, to learn the value of applied skills, and of those people who never went to college or university.

My eldest daughter studied under Dr Martin Seligman, The Father of positive psychology (sort of the equivalent of Sigmund Freud, considered The Father of negative psychology). Many years in university. The other daughter decided to work in welding, now works on airplane parts and she delights making wrought iron art. She never wanted to go to university. Yet it would be hard to say which daughter was more successful. Each kid followed her heart.

Would it have really been worth a very large student loan for the difference?

[Velvet]

All three had full rides, for undergrad. By the time you finish your residency, then your fellow into your field. Half a million plus is pretty common for specialized physicians. All are children happy with their field.

Our granddaughter, is in premed, full ride. We all have had the conversation about physicians debt starting a practice, and MALPRACTICE cost. Other physicians she has shadowed have had discussions with her.

At 3 she announced she wanted to be a doctor, while she reading X-rays with her grandpa, at the office. She asked for a grays anatomy for her 5 birthday.

She is going To be an Orthopedic Surgeon with eyes wide open.

That sounds wonderful! I can relate a tiny bit, I had a very happy baby sitter when I was five. I asked her what made her so happy and she said because she was studying chemical engineering. I had no idea what it was but I decided from that moment on that’s what I was going to do....and I did. Only to find out, much later, that watching chemical interactions for hours in beakers was not really my thing. Lol. Of course your granddaughter choose the right path for herself.

[retiredguy123]

My favorite consumer guru, Clark Howard, recommends that you should never borrow more money for a 4 year degree than you expect to earn as salary in your first year after graduation. And, you should never make a private loan for graduate school. I agree with his advice, but he is a real cheapskate.

[JoMar]

Two members of our family decided against college, one even tried it. Both went to trade school and both now have a 6 figure income plus significant benefits. We still need contractors, plumbers, electricians etc. and their income can far exceed college grads. In addition, job placement is highest in the trades because we need their skills. Not everyone can be a lawyer or doctor. I believe that many kids go to college because their parents want them to, they think that's whats best for them and quickly become disillusioned when they can't get into the field of their degree.

[villagetinker]

I was lucky, my parents paid for my tuition so I paid it forward, and setup 529 funds for each of 3 grandchildren, as well as paying for most of my step sons college, still have the last grandchild to go. The 529 investments almost doubled from the initial investment to time of use. So far all of the grand children have taken on side jobs and summer jobs to keep any remaining loans as low as possible, very responsible.

[retiredguy123]

Trade schools are fine, but the skills you learn can become obsolete with technology and robots. Also, you can only do physical labor for a certain period of time before you burn out or become too old to do the job. Plumbers and electricians can only make as much money as electrical and mechanical engineers if they own their own business, in which case, they are business people, not plumbers and electricians.

[Velvet]

I think that a person values the effort they put into it. Also there is the concept of learned helplessness, when you do everything for a person they learn that they are helpless themselves. (This applies to government student loans too, I think.) Therefore, I encouraged each child to fight for what they wanted, thus the scholarship. Eldest had five universities bribing her to come. (I was standing in the background ready to help each child .... if needed. Neither needed it. But they were also headstrong and choose their own path.)

[JGVillages]

Since the Federal Government guarantees Student Loans colleges will continue to raise tuition without consequences. If the student does not honor the loan then the Government (aka us taxpayers) will. Sort of a hybrid Ponzi Scheme created in Washington by our lawmakers who by the way vote their own salary increases.

[retiredguy123]

Since the Federal Government guarantees Student Loans colleges will continue to raise tuition without consequences. If the student does not honor the loan then the Government (aka us taxpayers) will. Sort of a hybrid Ponzi Scheme created in Washington by our lawmakers who by the way vote their own salary increases.
The Federal Government doesn't guarantee student loans, they make the loans. As understand it, banks are prohibited from making Government student loans anymore. They are loans made directly from the Federal Government, unless they are private loans between the student and the bank.

[asianthree]

That sounds wonderful! I can relate a tiny bit, I had a very happy baby sitter when I was five. I asked her what made her so happy and she said because she was studying chemical engineering. I had no idea what it was but I decided from that moment on that’s what I was going to do....and I did. Only to find out, much later, that watching chemical interactions for hours in beakers was not really my thing. Lol. Of course your granddaughter choose the right path for herself.

She fractured her wrist at age 5. ER orthopod told her it was broken in one place, she looked at the x-rays told him it was fractured 2 places. Took her x-rays to her grandpa’s office. She was right it was fractured in 2 places, one fracture was so near the growth plate, ER guy missed it, but she didn’t. ER Doc was one of 10 recommendations for Med school.:a040:

[JoMar]

Trade schools are fine, but the skills you learn can become obsolete with technology and robots. Also, you can only do physical labor for a certain period of time before you burn out or become too old to do the job. Plumbers and electricians can only make as much money as electrical and mechanical engineers if they own their own business, in which case, they are business people, not plumbers and electricians.

Not sure what your experience has been but working plumbers and electricians make more than most. If they work for themselves they control their destiny but if they work for someone else they are promoted and run projects. Both of our family members did that, started at the bottom and worked their way up the ladder. Our son, no college degree, makes 125K a year and has been in his trade for 15 years, our nephew makes 110K a year and gradutated trade school 5 years ago. It's been an old argument parents use to convince college is their future, but I see a lot of graduates waiting tables, driving Uber or working at Disney. My point is that you don't need college to find a good paying job....that's a myth.

[eweissenbach]

Student loans are far from a singular problem and people looking to get help with paying for them are far from alone. Have you heard or seen the dozens of ads for companies wanting to help reduce credit card debt through negotiation and consolidation? Have you seen the ads for companies that claim they have negotiated with the IRS to reduce people’s tax liens by tens of thousands of dollars? Not to mention the dozens of attorneys advertising for bankruptcy cases. Seems to me that many, if not most, people are looking to get out of debt without simply paying it off.

[jimbomaybe]

does not the interest rates depend on the likelihood of default? , if banks could not adjust for that could they stay in business ?

[retiredguy123]

does not the interest rates depend on the likelihood of default? , if banks could not adjust for that could they stay in business ?
Yes, that is why the typical student loan is a direct loan from the Federal Government. Banks are not involved. Nobody cares if the borrower defaults because it is just taxpayer money, and the Government can raise taxes or borrow more money and increase the national debt. The current student loan debt is 1.6 trillion dollars and growing every day.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Getting a teaching degree is expensive but in some states you don't make minimum wage for teaching and you have to pay for all your own classroom supplies. This is breaking down how many hours you actually work, in the classroom and home grading papers, attending mandatory parent-teacher meetings, taking courses to maintain your status as a qualified teacher in your state, etc. etc. You can't just up and move to another state that pays better, those positions are already filled and there are waiting lists.

They didn't tell you all this when you decided to become a teacher. So now you can't pay the loan and your rent is late, you have no savings, you work another job to handle as many responsibilities as you can.

There are other careers in the same situation. Lots of kids went to college at the middle of the dot-com boom expecting a promised job in the tech trade. Four years later, the industry tanked and all these college graduates were out of work, and owing thousands.

Even some kids went to college to get a degree in agricultural studies to run the family farm. They graduated just two, three, or four years ago. And now there's a trade war and they will lose their farm - and have to pay back the loans.

No fault of the kids, has nothing to do with being cheap. They did the right thing, borrowed only as much as they expected to earn in their first year just like Clark Howard recommends. Unfortunately society rejected their expectations and told them they were SOL, and they'd better pay up what they don't have or else.

I don't think debt forgiveness is the right answer unless it's to a school that was shut down for defrauding the students.

But I think kids should be able to get a break on the pressure of repaying that debt. Add a couple more years to their payoff date, at no additional interest rate. Let them skip their birthday month's payment. Allow more generous deferments.

[dnobles]

I worked in student loans. I’ve been retired 12 years and haven’t kept upon the changes. There is so much miss information in these post I don’t even know where to begin plus I don’t want to argue.

[Buffalo Jim]

I worked in student loans. I’ve been retired 12 years and haven’t kept upon the changes. There is so much miss information in these post I don’t even know where to begin plus I don’t want to argue.

I agree with you 100% . I was a senior exec at a large Regional Bank . One of the Business Lines that reported to me back when we did" Direct Student Lending" was the Federal Student Loan Program .

There is a lot more to the entire program than what has been discussed here . Like anything there is a great deal more to the entire issue .
Loans to students attending so called " Trade Schools " such a Cosmetology and Secretarial Business Schools had horrendous Default Rates . As high as 80% !
Yet for many years we were forced to process and advance loans to these students or it was considered Discriminatory . Not Discriminatory against the student but possibly as Discrimination toward the " School " . We also had to work hard at great expense to collect payments before we could declare a loan to be " Uncollectible " and turn it over to the Federal Government to exercise their Guarantee. Something like one year of zero payments . And on and on .
My Bank and many others put pressure on our Federal Representatives to institute some standards such as student graduation rates , ability to pass State Licensing Exams , Historic Loan Default Rates etc .
The result was the Federal Government simply took over the Student Loan process and took over the Student Loan portfolios from all Banks .
Apparently this was their answer to serious problems in the National Student Loan Program . This was many years ago however I must wonder if the standards were ever cleaned up .
" For Profit Schools " are major abusers of the system . You see them running Ads on TV every day .They put on hard recruiting practices to gather students , many who should not be in college or even Trade Schools . They have them borrow the max allowed which goes to those who own the schools and very few ever get a useful education .
Most are left with broken dreams and a huge debt .
Most people who attend legitimate Universities and Colleges and who Majored in anything close to useful eventually are able to build successful careers . Some sooner than others but the vast majority do .
Note : Back when Banks administered the loans it was The Federal Government who determined what interest rate banks could charge on student loans under that program. Also the abusive " school " operators donate a lot of money to their favorite politicians in order to keep their game going .

[Bucco]

I worked in student loans. I’ve been retired 12 years and haven’t kept upon the changes. There is so much miss information in these post I don’t even know where to begin plus I don’t want to argue.

First, be aware, the misinformation you speak of is the norm on this forum.

There actually is a group that openly hates facts.

Good news, FACTUALLY student loan default is down, and has been trending that way for some time. Hope that is correct information.

Student Loan Default Rate Continues to Decline (https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/09/26/student-loan-default-rate-continues-decline)


Problem, in my opinion is those loans taken in the past were great BUT what you can earn has not kept up with the cost of college costs.

Most don't think of debt as a bad thing (see US government), and I just read recently the default on car loans dwarfs default on college loans.

[retiredguy123]

First, be aware, the misinformation you speak of is the norm on this forum.

There actually is a group that openly hates facts.

Good news, FACTUALLY student loan default is down, and has been trending that way for some time. Hope that is correct information.

Student Loan Default Rate Continues to Decline (https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/09/26/student-loan-default-rate-continues-decline)


Problem, in my opinion is those loans taken in the past were great BUT what you can earn has not kept up with the cost of college costs.

Most don't think of debt as a bad thing (see US government), and I just read recently the default on car loans dwarfs default on college loans.
I don't think it is appropriate to compare car loans to student loans. Car loans are private loans made by financial institutions and they are for profit, collateralized loans. Student loans do not have any any collateral, and, when they default, the taxpayer loses, not a financial institution. The total car loan debt is about 1.25 trillion dollars as compared to the student loan debt of 1.6 trillion dollars. But, I don't think the companies making car loans are losing money. The taxpayers making student loans are losing plenty of money because, from a financial standpoint, most of them are bad loans. This is an apples to oranges comparison.

[tophcfa]

First, be aware, the misinformation you speak of is the norm on this forum.

There actually is a group that openly hates facts.

Good news, FACTUALLY student loan default is down, and has been trending that way for some time. Hope that is correct information.

Student Loan Default Rate Continues to Decline (https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/09/26/student-loan-default-rate-continues-decline)


Problem, in my opinion is those loans taken in the past were great BUT what you can earn has not kept up with the cost of college costs.

Most don't think of debt as a bad thing (see US government), and I just read recently the default on car loans dwarfs default on college loans.

The disconnect between the cost of a good education and what one can earn is because education is not what it used to be. When we all went to college engineering, math, science, physics, business, law, and pre-med were degrees of choice. Now kids go to school for degrees in social justice, climate sustainability, and the like. It's no wonder they can't pay off their loans. And you are correct that car loans dwarf the defaults on college loans, that is because banks can reposess your car if you don't pay the loan, but they can't take back the time you spent in college if you default on your student debt. Collateral that can be taken back is definitely worth something to a lender.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I don't think it is appropriate to compare car loans to student loans. Car loans are private loans made by financial institutions and they are for profit, collateralized loans. Student loans do not have any any collateral, and, when they default, the taxpayer loses, not a financial institution. The total car loan debt is about 1.25 trillion dollars as compared to the student loan debt of 1.6 trillion dollars. But, I don't think the companies making car loans are losing money. The taxpayers making student loans are losing plenty of money because, from a financial standpoint, most of them are bad loans. This is an apples to oranges comparison.

When the graduate ends up in Section 8 housing, collecting welfare and SNAP benefits, and has their only form of transportation repossessed because they paid back their student loan and have nothing left . . .

it's the taxpayer who will be paying for that graduate's housing, welfare check, food stamps.

Do you really think a few years worth of all those things are less expensive to the taxpayer than the student loan? If you do, then there is something seriously wrong with the cost of higher education, because it shouldn't cost more than the cost of housing, food, utilities, clothing, and transportation for a few years.

If you don't think those things are less expensive, then you probably would prefer to risk being the taxpayer who pays for the defaulted loan, than for the graduate's expenses as a result of not finding a job in the career their education was supposed to prepare them for.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The disconnect between the cost of a good education and what one can earn is because education is not what it used to be. When we all went to college engineering, math, science, physics, business, law, and pre-med were degrees of choice. Now kids go to school for degrees in social justice, climate sustainability, and the like. It's no wonder they can't pay off their loans. And you are correct that car loans dwarf the defaults on college loans, that is because banks can reposess your car if you don't pay the loan, but they can't take back the time you spent in college if you default on your student debt. Collateral that can be taken back is definitely worth something to a lender.

Liberal arts degrees were hugely popular in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. Political science was also very popular.

College tuition in the 1960's was usually less than $2000 per year. 4 years at Harvard was less than $35,000 total, including room and board for the first two years. Now it's around $130,000 PER YEAR. The cost of education has gone up MUCH higher than the salaries people expect to get as a result of that education. And much higher than the overall rate of inflation.

That is why student loans are being defaulted. Older people are remembering how easy it was for them to get their own loans and pay them back, and not noticing how expensive it is for kids to get the same education now. "Back in my day" is obsolete, and irrelevant.

[Velvet]

When the graduate ends up in Section 8 housing, collecting welfare and SNAP benefits, and has their only form of transportation repossessed because they paid back their student loan and have nothing left . . .

it's the taxpayer who will be paying for that graduate's housing, welfare check, food stamps.

Do you really think a few years worth of all those things are less expensive to the taxpayer than the student loan? If you do, then there is something seriously wrong with the cost of higher education, because it shouldn't cost more than the cost of housing, food, utilities, clothing, and transportation for a few years.

If you don't think those things are less expensive, then you probably would prefer to risk being the taxpayer who pays for the defaulted loan, than for the graduate's expenses as a result of not finding a job in the career their education was supposed to prepare them for.

This is partly because of the push to get too many people who shouldn’t be at college there in the first place. There is an imbalance. The demand and the supply do not meet.

So the kid with the PhD in philosophy ends up becoming a fisherman, my friend did. But then he didn’t study in order to make money or serve society, he studied because the subject interested him. But who is going to pay for his student loan? For his fun time at university?

[Velvet]

Liberal arts degrees were hugely popular in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. Political science was also very popular.

College tuition in the 1960's was usually less than $2000 per year. 4 years at Harvard was less than $35,000 total, including room and board for the first two years. Now it's around $130,000 PER YEAR. The cost of education has gone up MUCH higher than the salaries people expect to get as a result of that education. And much higher than the overall rate of inflation.

This is the market trying to correct itself. Way too many people want to go to Harvard.

[biker1]

Nope. Harvard is about half of that.


Liberal arts degrees were hugely popular in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. Political science was also very popular.

College tuition in the 1960's was usually less than $2000 per year. 4 years at Harvard was less than $35,000 total, including room and board for the first two years. Now it's around $130,000 PER YEAR. The cost of education has gone up MUCH higher than the salaries people expect to get as a result of that education. And much higher than the overall rate of inflation.

That is why student loans are being defaulted. Older people are remembering how easy it was for them to get their own loans and pay them back, and not noticing how expensive it is for kids to get the same education now. "Back in my day" is obsolete, and irrelevant.

[biker1]

There is nothing unique about Harvard’s cost. There are many schools with the same cost.

This is the market trying to correct itself. Way too many people want to go to Harvard.

[dewilson58]

Liberal arts degrees were hugely popular in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. Political science was also very popular.

College tuition in the 1960's was usually less than $2000 per year. 4 years at Harvard was less than $35,000 total, including room and board for the first two years. Now it's around $130,000 PER YEAR. The cost of education has gone up MUCH higher than the salaries people expect to get as a result of that education. And much higher than the overall rate of inflation.

That is why student loans are being defaulted. Older people are remembering how easy it was for them to get their own loans and pay them back, and not noticing how expensive it is for kids to get the same education now. "Back in my day" is obsolete, and irrelevant.




If they are smart enough to go to Harvard (whatever that is), they should understand the value of the investment they are making and the realistic ROI. "If I'm going to invest XX, how much more will I earn and how long will it take to pay it back.......taking into consideration economic impacts??"


"Harvard" educations ain't what they use to be in today's market.

[Love2Swim]

Our son and his wife each have over $200,000 in student loans, and they didn't attend fancy ivy league schools. College is way more expensive now than it was when we were students, and these young kids have been victims of predatory lenders who charged exorbitant interest rates. Our son has been paying for at least 7 years, and has not yet started paying off the principal. I personally think there should have been more government oversight of the loan process, so the financial institutions were not taking advantage of the kids. As someone else mentioned, college is now the norm. When we were younger you could skip college and be assured of a good job. Not so much anymore unless you have the skills to get into a trade, which not everyone does. I'd like to see kids being given the opportunity to attend state universities/colleges for free for two years, the same way the government sponsors free high school education. I think our society has evolved to the point where that is needed. Any college education after that would be up to the individuals. As far as dealing with the existing debt, perhaps a scheduled forgiveness program if they serve a certain amount of time in certain volunteer/government sponsored programs like teaching in problems school districts for example.

[billethkid]

Our son and his wife each have over $200,000 in student loans, and they didn't attend fancy ivy league schools. College is way more expensive now than it was when we were students, and these young kids have been victims of predatory lenders who charged exorbitant interest rates. Our son has been paying for at least 7 years, and has not yet started paying off the principal. I personally think there should have been more government oversight of the loan process, so the financial institutions were not taking advantage of the kids. As someone else mentioned, college is now the norm. When we were younger you could skip college and be assured of a good job. Not so much anymore unless you have the skills to get into a trade, which not everyone does. I'd like to see kids being given the opportunity to attend state universities/colleges for free for two years, the same way the government sponsors free high school education. I think our society has evolved to the point where that is needed. Any college education after that would be up to the individuals. As far as dealing with the existing debt, perhaps a scheduled forgiveness program if they serve a certain amount of time in certain volunteer/government sponsored programs like teaching in problems school districts for example.

When suggesting free just keep mind there is no such thing as free to the provider. They and now more that it is free will need to be paid....higher taxes...we all get to pay for the "free" stuff.....that is OK as long as folks keep in mind all the impacts of what ever is suggested or implemented.

And once the government gets into control then there will be ever increasing costs and inefficiencies....just because it is the government....and they do not use check book discipline.

[MorTech]

Legally, "predatory lending" can only apply if the borrower is mentally unfit...otherwise the court will determine it just "foolish borrowing". it's almost like a lot of people don't read the loan document.

[Love2Swim]

Its almost like an 18 year old is economically naive. Who would have thought...

As far as "free", it makes sense to have members of society educated enough so they can contribute more. In the long run, that pays for itself.

[Velvet]

If they are smart enough to go to Harvard (whatever that is), they should understand the value of the investment they are making and the realistic ROI. "If I'm going to invest XX, how much more will I earn and how long will it take to pay it back.......taking into consideration economic impacts??"


"Harvard" educations ain't what they use to be in today's market.

This applies ONLY if you attend university in order to make money. But people attend for other reasons.
I had a lovely 75 year old lady next to me by the computers at the university. She had the most amazing large diamond on her finger, made it hard for her to type. I found out that she owned a large number of pharmacies, and was quite well off, but she never got her master’s degree. At graduation, she was the oldest student on the stage.

[dewilson58]

This applies ONLY if you attend university in order to make money. But people attend for other reasons.
I had a lovely 75 year old lady next to me by the computers at the university. She had the most amazing large diamond on her finger, made it hard for her to type. I found out that she owned a large number of pharmacies, and was quite well off, but she never got her master’s degree. At graduation, she was the oldest student on the stage.


I think this is what the thread is about.


:ohdear:

[dewilson58]

Our son and his wife each have over $200,000 in student loans, and they didn't attend fancy ivy league schools. College is way more expensive now than it was when we were students, and these young kids have been victims of predatory lenders who charged exorbitant interest rates. Our son has been paying for at least 7 years, and has not yet started paying off the principal. I personally think there should have been more government oversight of the loan process, so the financial institutions were not taking advantage of the kids. As someone else mentioned, college is now the norm. When we were younger you could skip college and be assured of a good job. Not so much anymore unless you have the skills to get into a trade, which not everyone does. I'd like to see kids being given the opportunity to attend state universities/colleges for free for two years, the same way the government sponsors free high school education. I think our society has evolved to the point where that is needed. Any college education after that would be up to the individuals. As far as dealing with the existing debt, perhaps a scheduled forgiveness program if they serve a certain amount of time in certain volunteer/government sponsored programs like teaching in problems school districts for example.




Sounds like your son did not read documents. Sounds like parents did not assist in understanding. Nothing is free.

[dewilson58]

Had a home loan, paid it off. Had a car loan, paid it off. Had a student loan, paid it off. That's what you do.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk




Simple and accurate.


:coolsmiley:

[retiredguy123]

Our son and his wife each have over $200,000 in student loans, and they didn't attend fancy ivy league schools. College is way more expensive now than it was when we were students, and these young kids have been victims of predatory lenders who charged exorbitant interest rates. Our son has been paying for at least 7 years, and has not yet started paying off the principal. I personally think there should have been more government oversight of the loan process, so the financial institutions were not taking advantage of the kids. As someone else mentioned, college is now the norm. When we were younger you could skip college and be assured of a good job. Not so much anymore unless you have the skills to get into a trade, which not everyone does. I'd like to see kids being given the opportunity to attend state universities/colleges for free for two years, the same way the government sponsors free high school education. I think our society has evolved to the point where that is needed. Any college education after that would be up to the individuals. As far as dealing with the existing debt, perhaps a scheduled forgiveness program if they serve a certain amount of time in certain volunteer/government sponsored programs like teaching in problems school districts for example.
I think your son borrowed too much money, especially if he is a teacher. Did he go to a community college and work part time for two years before going to a university? That would have saved money. But, $200,000 is way too much debt for a teacher to expect to pay back. He should have done the math. I understand that it is too late, but I wouldn't blame the lender or the Government.

[Velvet]

Well if this thread is solely about money, then we need to consider the real cost of higher education. It is not only the tuition fees, residence and living expenses, it is also the foregone income. Assuming a job after 2 years of college, one starts to earn a salary, compared to 4 years for BA, 2 years for MA, then professional certification, or residency etc or 6 years for PhD (which is the norm in my field) in some it can be only 4 years. So at least 8 years of foregone income should be added to the direct expenses to calculate the true price of education.

[retiredguy123]

Well if this thread is solely about money, then we need to consider the real cost of higher education. It is not only the tuition fees, residence and living expenses, it is also the foregone income. Assuming a job after 2 years of college, one starts to earn a salary, compared to 4 years for BA, 2 years for MA, then professional certification, or residency etc or 6 years for PhD (which is the norm in my field) in some it can be only 4 years. So at least 8 years of foregone income should be added to the direct expenses to calculate the true price of education.
I think this thread is simply about taking out a loan and then paying it back. If you want to borrow money to go to school, then fine, do the math, and calculate how much you can afford to borrow, and make a plan to pay it back. But, don't expect someone else to pay off the loan for you. That is your responsibility.

[Velvet]

Retired, your comment is very reasonable. I was trying to look at the bigger picture. For the students at age 18 or so to make those financial calculations, they need guidance either from parents or counselors. In their young, ideal state of mind, I’m not sure how many actually think it through.

[retiredguy123]

Retired, your comment is very reasonable. I was trying to look at the bigger picture. For the students at age 18 or so to make those financial calculations, they need guidance either from parents or counselors. In their young, ideal state of mind, I’m not sure how many actually think it through.
I agree that students should seek advice from parents and counselors. But, in our current legal system, when you become 18, you have the authority to enter into legal and binding financial contracts, and other contracts. Maybe, you are suggesting that we should raise the age to do that?

[Velvet]

Well as an educator, you can guess what my answer would be, the school system needs to do a better job educating the students about financial decisions and responsibilities (since we can’t guarantee the parents will).

[retiredguy123]

Well as an educator, you can guess what my answer would be, the school system needs to do a better job educating the students about financial decisions and responsibilities (since we can’t guarantee the parents will).
I totally agree.

[billethkid]

Well if this thread is solely about money, then we need to consider the real cost of higher education. It is not only the tuition fees, residence and living expenses, it is also the foregone income. Assuming a job after 2 years of college, one starts to earn a salary, compared to 4 years for BA, 2 years for MA, then professional certification, or residency etc or 6 years for PhD (which is the norm in my field) in some it can be only 4 years. So at least 8 years of foregone income should be added to the direct expenses to calculate the true price of education.

I am the OP and this thread is NOT "...solely about money...".

It is about responsibility and honoring one's commitment...AS AGREED TO AND SIGNED FOR.....

Most of what we hear about is how unfair it is to expect people to to be burdened with such unreasonable education debt.
It was certainly not unreasonable when the agreed with the criteria to get the money.

It is a shame the responsibility has been politicized and now makes the obligation a selective decision.....with no penalty.

Too many of us have been in similar financially burdened times during those early years post graduation.....and made the right choices where and how/how not to spend our precious financial resources to MAKE SURE WE MET THE AGREED TO FINANCIAL OBLIGATION.

There is no excuse to default on the loans and the government pick up the tab.

We are becoming more and more tolerant of selective application of laws and obligations.

[retiredguy123]

I thought that is essentially what I said in Post No. 56.

[Ben Franklin]

Since 2004, "National Flood Insurance Program has borrowed $39.4 billion from taxpayers. It has repaid just $2.82 billion of that principle. In a report last September, the Congressional Budget Office projected that, as currently structured, the program should be expected to lose $1.4 billion on an annual basis." Yes, everyone should pay off the loans they took out, but in this case, those who don't need flood insurance, will also have to help pay off the loan. Shouldn't those who have federal flood insurance be the ones responsible for paying off the loan? Socialism?

[Aces4]

Since 2004, "National Flood Insurance Program has borrowed $39.4 billion from taxpayers. It has repaid just $2.82 billion of that principle. In a report last September, the Congressional Budget Office projected that, as currently structured, the program should be expected to lose $1.4 billion on an annual basis." Yes, everyone should pay off the loans they took out, but in this case, those who don't need flood insurance, will also have to help pay off the loan. Shouldn't those who have federal flood insurance be the ones responsible for paying off the loan? Socialism?

Why not provide the same handout proposed to those of with a college degree to include their peers. Why would we gift one segment of society? Those who provide some of the most essential services to society without a college degree and work tirelessly for smaller wages need to be rewarded too. Where does it stop?

[drcar]

Well, I agree that the loans should be honored, my daughter took out loans and is paying them off. Has never missed a payment. BUT what upsets me is we give money to bail out banks, and other companies, but we charge the students a higher interest, when some if these companies get off free. I am NOT saying forgive loans, but interest should be based on merit, ie. payment record, graduation, etc. These kids ARE the future. Lower the rates!!!!

[Aces4]

Well, I agree that the loans should be honored, my daughter took out loans and is paying them off. Has never missed a payment. BUT what upsets me is we give money to bail out banks, and other companies, but we charge the students a higher interest, when some if these companies get off free. I am NOT saying forgive loans, but interest should be based on merit, ie. payment record, graduation, etc. These kids ARE the future. Lower the rates!!!!

I totally agree with your observation.

[Love2Swim]

I am the OP and this thread is NOT "...solely about money...".

It is about responsibility and honoring one's commitment...AS AGREED TO AND SIGNED FOR.....

Most of what we hear about is how unfair it is to expect people to to be burdened with such unreasonable education debt.
It was certainly not unreasonable when the agreed with the criteria to get the money.

It is a shame the responsibility has been politicized and now makes the obligation a selective decision.....with no penalty.

Too many of us have been in similar financially burdened times during those early years post graduation.....and made the right choices where and how/how not to spend our precious financial resources to MAKE SURE WE MET THE AGREED TO FINANCIAL OBLIGATION.

There is no excuse to default on the loans and the government pick up the tab.

We are becoming more and more tolerant of selective application of laws and obligations.

You are welcome to your opinion. But you don't seem to grasp that things are different now than when we were in the position to attend college and borrow money. Many posters have indicated what those differences are. One of the biggest is predatory lenders. "Back in the Day" we borrowed money via government loans. Many of those loans have dried up and kids are saddled with ridiculous loan interest rates from banks, who benefit from fleecing the kids, and the students pay double or triple what they would have when we were borrowers years ago. When society tells you you "have" to go to college to get a good job, you take the bait and you sign up for the loans as it is the only means of attending college. Then you graduate, and maybe things don't go as planned. The economy dries up - you can't get a job in your field, or the salary is much lower than the College advisor told you it would be - many of today's colleges are money making propositions and they really exaggerate to the potential students how good the various fields of study and job opportunities will be, just to get them to enroll. Couple that with financial naiveté, and it can be a recipe for disaster for some kids. No one is suggesting that people should get a free ride or skirt their responsibilities . But the system needs some changes.

[Bay Kid]

We, the taxpayers, should never payoff student loans for others. I owe, I owe, it is off to work I go.

[Bay Kid]

Well, I agree that the loans should be honored, my daughter took out loans and is paying them off. Has never missed a payment. BUT what upsets me is we give money to bail out banks, and other companies, but we charge the students a higher interest, when some if these companies get off free. I am NOT saying forgive loans, but interest should be based on merit, ie. payment record, graduation, etc. These kids ARE the future. Lower the rates!!!!

If you the government money they charge us 10%. That is also highway robbery.

[dewilson58]

You are welcome to your opinion. But you don't seem to grasp that things are different now than when we were in the position to attend college and borrow money. Many posters have indicated what those differences are. One of the biggest is predatory lenders. "Back in the Day" we borrowed money via government loans. Many of those loans have dried up and kids are saddled with ridiculous loan interest rates from banks, who benefit from fleecing the kids, and the students pay double or triple what they would have when we were borrowers years ago. When society tells you you "have" to go to college to get a good job, you take the bait and you sign up for the loans as it is the only means of attending college. Then you graduate, and maybe things don't go as planned. The economy dries up - you can't get a job in your field, or the salary is much lower than the College advisor told you it would be - many of today's colleges are money making propositions and they really exaggerate to the potential students how good the various fields of study and job opportunities will be, just to get them to enroll. Couple that with financial naiveté, and it can be a recipe for disaster for some kids. No one is suggesting that people should get a free ride or skirt their responsibilities . But the system needs some changes.




Blaming "the system", Blaming "banks", Blaming "society"........your son must take responsibility for what he signed. If there is fraud, get a lawyer. If not and IF there is fleecing, refinance.


:ohdear:

[npwalters]

I agree with all who state that a student loan is the responsibility of the person that undertook it. I cant see how it is right to ask many who did not go to college to subsidize through taxes those that did.

To the individual that states only the government may make student loans this is from Wikipedia.

The main types of student loans in the United States are the following:
Federal student loans made to students directly (Stafford and Perkins loans).[28] These loans are made regardless of credit history (most students have no credit history); approval is automatic if the student meets program requirements. The student makes no payments while enrolled in at least half-time studies. If a student drops below half time or graduates, there is a six-month grace period. If the student re-enrolls in at least half-time status, the loans are deferred, but when they drop below half time again they no longer have access to a grace period and repayment must begin. All Perkins loans and some undergraduate Stafford loans receive subsidies from the federal government. Amounts of both subsidized and unsubsidized loans are limited.
There are many deferments and a number of forbearances (cancellation of loan) one can get in the Direct Loan program.[29] For those who are disabled, there is also the possibility of 100% loan discharge (cancellation of loan).[30] Due to changes by the Higher Education Opportunity Act of 2008, it became easier to get one of these discharges after July 1, 2010.[31] There are loan forgiveness provisions for teachers in specific critical subjects or in a school with more than 30% of its students on reduced-price lunch (a common measure of poverty), and qualify for loan forgiveness of all their Stafford, Perkins, and Federal Family Education Loan Program loans totalling up to $77,500.[32] In addition, any person employed full-time (in any position) by any 501(c)(3) non-profit, or another qualifying public service organization, or serving in a full-time AmeriCorps or Peace Corps position,[33] qualifies for loan forgiveness (cancellation) after 120 qualifying payments. The 120 qualifying monthly payments do not need to be consecutive; they can be interrupted without penalty if there is a period of employment with a nonqualifying employer,.[34][35] However, loan forgivenesses or discharges are considered taxable income by the Internal Revenue Service under 26 U.S.C. 108(f).[36]

Federal student loans made to parents (PLUS loans):[37] Much higher limit, but payments start immediately. Credit history is considered; approval is not automatic.

Private student loans, made to students or parents: Higher limits and no payments until after graduation, although interest starts to accrue immediately and the deferred interest is added to the principal, so there is interest on the (deferred) interest (which Is not the case with subsidized student loans). Interest rates are higher than those of federal loans, which are set by the United States Congress. Private loans are, or should be, a last resort, when federal and other loan programs are exhausted. Any college financial aid officer will recommend you borrow the maximum under federal programs before turning to private loans.[38]

[retiredguy123]

I think the Federal student loan program used to be operated by banks where the Government would guarantee the loan to protect the bank. Now, most student loans are not bank loans, but direct loans from the Government. Obviously, any bank can lend money to anyone for any reason, based on the borrower's credit rating, without Government involvement.

[billethkid]

I disagree with the notion "...things are different today..."

I have two grandchildren who got student loans. They graduated. They had a tough time getting what they thought was going to be a financial post graduate beginning.

They and their spouses had to work. They drove older cars. They bought very small "affordable" housing. No eating out. They had non smart flip phones for several years. Etc. Etc.

Fast forward their loans are paid off. They have much more lucrative positions and all else that flows from success.

As I see it....not much has changed. It is the drive of the individuals that honor their obligations by making short term sacrifices.

What is of significance these days is the interest rates. When I had my Federal student loan it was at 1.5% for 10 years.

There is no reason for the high interest rates of today for such loans.

I maintain my opinion, there is no reason that loans should be forgiven. Instead the government, the banks, the parents et al.....should all endeavor to restructure what ever needs to be done to honor the debt. WHATEVER IT TAKES.

That is what will have a positive effect on the future.....drive and responsibility VS a hand out and loan forgiveness that breeds a bail out expectation.....instead of can do....must do....will do.

[Boomer]

You are welcome to your opinion. But you don't seem to grasp that things are different now than when we were in the position to attend college and borrow money. Many posters have indicated what those differences are. One of the biggest is predatory lenders. "Back in the Day" we borrowed money via government loans. Many of those loans have dried up and kids are saddled with ridiculous loan interest rates from banks, who benefit from fleecing the kids, and the students pay double or triple what they would have when we were borrowers years ago. When society tells you you "have" to go to college to get a good job, you take the bait and you sign up for the loans as it is the only means of attending college. Then you graduate, and maybe things don't go as planned. The economy dries up - you can't get a job in your field, or the salary is much lower than the College advisor told you it would be - many of today's colleges are money making propositions and they really exaggerate to the potential students how good the various fields of study and job opportunities will be, just to get them to enroll. Couple that with financial naiveté, and it can be a recipe for disaster for some kids. No one is suggesting that people should get a free ride or skirt their responsibilities . But the system needs some changes.


Thank you. You wrote what I think, too.

Unfortunately, the preaching of platitudes from a narrow, dated perspective is the name of the game for those who refuse to acknowledge that this is not a simple issue.

This mess will strangle segments of the economy — the housing market and retirement savings for starters. And it will eventually contribute to the erosion of the middle class.

The percentage of an average family’s income that even one year of college tuition represents is an obscenity. This is not how it was “back in the day.”

The beginning of this century saw banks getting way into getting a piece of the student loan action, along with the rise of those for-profit “colleges” that sprung up all over the place, with empty promises.

Established universities need to be held accountable for rising costs. Many must be swimming in money. I was shocked to learn that installing lazy rivers is the latest trend. That is plain insane.

A lot of young people are like lambs to the slaughter.

This mess is a horrible stew with many ingredients, some of them pure poison.

The solution is in finding a compromise through forward economic thinking and planning — not in waving an imaginary magic wand.

[2newyorkers]

Students should be responsible to pay off their student loans but it is just as responsible to pay off their loans at 3% as at 10%. Also it is ridiculous that the loan is accumulating interest while still in school. Graduates would be helping the economy much better if they were buying cars, houses, eating at restaurants then paying off large monthly loans. We were so lucky we had the means to pay our children's postgraduate ( and some graduate) schooling.

[Love2Swim]

Thank you. You wrote what I think, too.

Unfortunately, the preaching of platitudes from a narrow, dated perspective is the name of the game for those who refuse to acknowledge that this is not a simple issue.

This mess will strangle segments of the economy — the housing market and retirement savings for starters. And it will eventually contribute to the erosion of the middle class.

The percentage of an average family’s income that even one year of college tuition represents is an obscenity. This is not how it was “back in the day.”

The beginning of this century saw banks getting way into getting a piece of the student loan action, along with the rise of those for-profit “colleges” that sprung up all over the place, with empty promises.

Established universities need to be held accountable for rising costs. Many must be swimming in money. I was shocked to learn that installing lazy rivers is the latest trend. That is plain insane.

A lot of young people are like lambs to the slaughter.

This mess is a horrible stew with many ingredients, some of them pure poison.

The solution is in finding a compromise through forward economic thinking and planning — not in waving an imaginary magic wand.

Exactly. This is a huge mess that has significant impacts on our society. Most of the students WANT to pay it off, and they are. But in the meantime, they are not buying new cars, they are not buying houses, they are not spending money that would benefit other portions of the economy. The people profiting are the banks and the for profit colleges. When I went to school, even a two year community college was about $350 per semester, plus an additional $100 or so for books. I worked summers and was able to finance it myself. Now this same school is $2200 per semester, $600 for books and supplies. And that is a state government sponsored school.

Private schools are another whole ball of wax. The school I went to is now $25000 per semester plus $8000 per semester housing/meals plus $1400 for books. That is per semester i.e. nearly $70,000 per year. If one is fortunate enough to get government student loans, there are provisions that tie repayment plans to income. In contrast, private loans are much more expensive, may not be able to be consolidated for repayment and may not have any options for lowering loan payments over the life of the loans. There may be prepayment fees. Forbes did a big article on Student loans and how the shift from greater public funding of higher education to individual financing has negative social and economic effects and are an enormous drag on nationwide economy. It ends up being a vicious cycle. Having students bear the risk means colleges can keep raising prices and push the costs onto the students, who then take out more loans, often from predatory lenders.

My point is, the system needs to be fixed. If our society values and requires college education for people to be successful and to contribute to said society, then we need to find a way for people to attend college with incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that will take 20 years or more to pay off.

[Bucco]

Exactly. This is a huge mess that has significant impacts on our society. Most of the students WANT to pay it off, and they are. But in the meantime, they are not buying new cars, they are not buying houses, they are not spending money that would benefit other portions of the economy. The people profiting are the banks and the for profit colleges. When I went to school, even a two year community college was about $350 per semester, plus an additional $100 or so for books. I worked summers and was able to finance it myself. Now this same school is $2200 per semester, $600 for books and supplies. And that is a state government sponsored school.

Private schools are another whole ball of wax. The school I went to is now $25000 per semester plus $8000 per semester housing/meals plus $1400 for books. That is per semester i.e. nearly $70,000 per year. If one is fortunate enough to get government student loans, there are provisions that tie repayment plans to income. In contrast, private loans are much more expensive, may not be able to be consolidated for repayment and may not have any options for lowering loan payments over the life of the loans. There may be prepayment fees. Forbes did a big article on Student loans and how the shift from greater public funding of higher education to individual financing has negative social and economic effects and are an enormous drag on nationwide economy. It ends up being a vicious cycle. Having students bear the risk means colleges can keep raising prices and push the costs onto the students, who then take out more loans, often from predatory lenders.

My point is, the system needs to be fixed. If our society values and requires college education for people to be successful and to contribute to said society, then we need to find a way for people to attend college with incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that will take 20 years or more to pay off.

The shrill cry of "how I did it" and the refusal to understand how the world is different today is the biggest drawback in so many areas where we can grow.

There appears to be no listening or entertaining anything new at all, as if the world has just stood still for so many years.

At the risk of being deleted, I am not going to post a link but suggest folks read about A. Wayne Johnson, who recently resigned as the overseer of student loans and his viewpoint on student loans. Read his new proposal just publicly stated a few weeks ago.

So quick to label folks who are trying to solve problems. If it a'int my idea it sucks. right ?

[graciegirl]

If it a'int my idea it sucks. right ?[/QUOTE]

With some people, no matter how reasonable and fair it is, they would oppose it. What is that called??

Contrarian.

[Bucco]

If it a'int my idea it sucks. right ?

With some people, no matter how reasonable and fair it is, they would oppose it. What is that called??

Contrarian.[/QUOTE]

When you do it with no reason given or supplied...and just call the "idea maker" names, it is ignorance

This thread has about 90% posts haring personal stories, with no recognition of facts supplied...defaultshave been going down steadily, the change in income that is available. As usual, it is, we are older...we did it correctly, nothing's changed, why can't you others do it how e did it. The implication in most posts is that they are the last of honest people, and if you read any news at all, you know that is not true.

[billethkid]

With some people, no matter how reasonable and fair it is, they would oppose it. What is that called??

Contrarian.

When you do it with no reason given or supplied...and just call the "idea maker" names, it is ignorance

This thread has about 90% posts haring personal stories, with no recognition of facts supplied...defaultshave been going down steadily, the change in income that is available. As usual, it is, we are older...we did it correctly, nothing's changed, why can't you others do it how e did it. The implication in most posts is that they are the last of honest people, and if you read any news at all, you know that is not true.[/QUOTE]

That is one observation!! Not the intent in raising the subject. However it is understandable when one needs to reinforce their view.

What is being over looked is the focus is on those who would default on their loans facilitated by an environment that is sympathetic to reasons why it cannot be done.

Citing experiences, yesteryear as well as current was/is intended to raise the issue of making it happen.

To each his own views or opinions without oblique minimization.

[dewilson58]

Outstanding student loan debt reached an all-time high of $1.41 trillion in 2019.
Soaring college costs are a big factor in student loan debt, with out-of-state tuition and fees averaging $26,290 per year for a four-year public university and $35,830 for a private college.
The average student loan balance per borrower hit a record high in 2018: $35,359.
Borrowers who don't complete their degree have a harder time paying off their loans.

The averages are not devastating. The extreme borrowers (who are the minority) are the problem.


11% of student loans are +90 days delinquent.



37% of people who took out student loans never finished college and earned a degree.


People who get more advanced degrees tend to accumulate more debt, but they are also likely to make payments on their student loans on time. These people knew what they were doing. It was not greedy bankers.

[C. C. Rider]

Its almost like an 18 year old is economically naive. Who would have thought...

As far as "free", it makes sense to have members of society educated enough so they can contribute more. In the long run, that pays for itself.

The flaw in your argument is precisely the problem that is being discussed in this thread. There are far too many poorly "educated" people in this country who are contributing little or nothing to society and as a consequence they can't pay back their loans and are (or soon will be) a burden to society rather than being a contributor. In the long run, the problem only gets worse, not better, unless some significant changes are made.

I agree that enabling students to get a better education in order to enable them to get a better job and pay more taxes and contribute more to society is the way it SHOULD work, but for a huge number of students, it's not working out that way and the taxpayer will be left holding the bag.

The student may have received poor advice or no advice in taking out loans, but ultimately the responsibility must be on the person who signed for the loans. No one forced them to take out these loans.

[retiredguy123]

Outstanding student loan debt reached an all-time high of $1.41 trillion in 2019.
Soaring college costs are a big factor in student loan debt, with out-of-state tuition and fees averaging $26,290 per year for a four-year public university and $35,830 for a private college.
The average student loan balance per borrower hit a record high in 2018: $35,359.
Borrowers who don't complete their degree have a harder time paying off their loans.

The averages are not devastating. The extreme borrowers (who are the minority) are the problem.


11% of student loans are +90 days delinquent.



37% of people who took out student loans never finished college and earned a degree.


People who get more advanced degrees tend to accumulate more debt, but they are also likely to make payments on their student loans on time. These people knew what they were doing. It was not greedy bankers.
Just to demonstrate the magnitude of this issue, I did the math, based on your figures. 1.41 trillion divided by 35,359 equals about 40 million. So, we have 40 million people who went to school and now they each owe about $35,000 in student loans. That is about 12 percent of the entire U.S. population. But, about 15 million of those 40 million people never even got a college degree. I would question the real value of continuing the student loan program as it currently exists.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

[C. C. Rider]

If people can't be responsible enough to pay back their loans, then perhaps the student loan program should be stopped. The problem with that approach is that it punishes those who use the program wisely due to the actions of those who abuse the program. That would be like stopping the sale of all alcohol because a small percentage abuse it and end up hurting themselves, their family, and perhaps others too.

Once again, it's not the problem of the program, it's that some people don't use it wisely. There are ways of substantially reducing the amount of money a student needs to borrow.

Spending the first 2 years in a local community college would help for many. Staying in-state would help for many others. Working and going to school part time would help many others. Going into the military for a few years might pay for ALL of it.

The problem with choosing any of the above alternatives to help pay-as-you-go is that it often doesn't allow the student to party for 4+ years at the out of state school that is the coolest and do it all on borrowed money. The advantage to using one or more of the above alternatives is that you graduate with little or no debt.

I would hate to see the student loan program eliminated because it has provided a means of getting a college education to many students who otherwise would not have been able to afford it, but if people don't stop abusing it or using it unwisely, it just might be curtailed.

[graciegirl]

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

That is a typical losers argument. Making excuses for things instead of taking responsibility. If a person can't afford to live in a dorm, then live in a car if that is what it takes to do what you need to do...or get a job along with college and find a really cheap place to live with a bunch of other kids like you. If a person can't afford to pay for something, don't commit to a loan for it. Many of us born in the forties could not afford a college education and our parents could not fund us either because they had just survived the great depression. Today in an unprecedented good economy and low unemployment, there is no reason for excuses. Not everyone is born with the ability to complete college but that doesn't mean that they cannot be financially successful, but it takes planning and saving and cutting back on spending for non essentials. I don't buy excuses from people who make poor decisions about their economic situation and let the chips fall where they may. It takes planning and sacrifice and hard work ...and doing without.

[manaboutown]

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

The basic problem is some people go through life making an unending stream of poor choices and bleeding hearts expect the hard working, productive folks who reasoned out their choices, planned, applied themselves, sacrificed and succeeded to financially carry the no-goods.

Now if a terrible accident, other tragedy, serious illness or the like takes one out then I feel the government should help them out.

But if a young person wastes his/her time in college, partying too much, taking underwater basketweaving instead of serious coursework that will lead to good employment opportunities on borrowed money, they should be required to pay the loans back, not the taxpayers.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

Perhaps all they need to do is learn to budget and calibrate their moral compass. I consider the following as analogous to folks owing money to loan providers. As a former landlord, I know that people can seem to find money to pay cable bills, cell phone bills, buy cigarettes, feed their animals, get tattoos, make payments on their motorcycles, eat mostly fast food, etc before paying their back rent because eviction takes a long time.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Perhaps all they need to do is learn to budget and calibrate their moral compass. I consider the following as analogous to folks owing money to loan providers. As a former landlord, I know that people can seem to find money to pay cable bills, cell phone bills, buy cigarettes, feed their animals, get tattoos, make payments on their motorcycles, eat mostly fast food, etc before paying their back rent because eviction takes a long time.

These are 18-year-old kids, who have lived at home all their lives. Who has failed to teach them how to budget and calibrate their moral compass? Who failed to teach their parents that this was a responsibility they had to accept when they chose to have children?

It's so easy to blame the ills of society on the current generation of graduates. Not so easy to do some actual fact-checking to learn what it takes to get a college-required career these days though, and how long it takes for that career to pay off enough for the student to start reducing their debt.

Some people have done the actual fact-checking though. it's not a matter of "just need to" anything. There is not "just" or "simply" or "merely" here. It's a complicated mess created by a complicated system overseen by a complicated government.

[Ben Franklin]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin View Post
Since 2004, "National Flood Insurance Program has borrowed $39.4 billion from taxpayers. It has repaid just $2.82 billion of that principle. In a report last September, the Congressional Budget Office projected that, as currently structured, the program should be expected to lose $1.4 billion on an annual basis." Yes, everyone should pay off the loans they took out, but in this case, those who don't need flood insurance, will also have to help pay off the loan. Shouldn't those who have federal flood insurance be the ones responsible for paying off the loan? Socialism?

Why not provide the same handout proposed to those of with a college degree to include their peers. Why would we gift one segment of society? Those who provide some of the most essential services to society without a college degree and work tirelessly for smaller wages need to be rewarded too. Where does it stop?

Don't know what that has to do with my post, which was, basically, why only pick on kids having to pay back their college loans, when no one is lambasting those who move to areas where federal flood insurance is needed; where those people, who have needed to make a claim have forced the government to take out a loan, that isn't being paid back on time, and which will probably end up requiring all of us to pay for the loan. But maybe that's a question for a new string.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

These are 18-year-old kids, who have lived at home all their lives. Who has failed to teach them how to budget and calibrate their moral compass? Who failed to teach their parents that this was a responsibility they had to accept when they chose to have children?

It's so easy to blame the ills of society on the current generation of graduates. Not so easy to do some actual fact-checking to learn what it takes to get a college-required career these days though, and how long it takes for that career to pay off enough for the student to start reducing their debt.

Some people have done the actual fact-checking though. it's not a matter of "just need to" anything. There is not "just" or "simply" or "merely" here. It's a complicated mess created by a complicated system overseen by a complicated government.

Fact checking? Most of the student loan debt is owed by folks who are 30 to 60 years old.

[retiredguy123]

These are 18-year-old kids, who have lived at home all their lives. Who has failed to teach them how to budget and calibrate their moral compass? Who failed to teach their parents that this was a responsibility they had to accept when they chose to have children?

It's so easy to blame the ills of society on the current generation of graduates. Not so easy to do some actual fact-checking to learn what it takes to get a college-required career these days though, and how long it takes for that career to pay off enough for the student to start reducing their debt.

Some people have done the actual fact-checking though. it's not a matter of "just need to" anything. There is not "just" or "simply" or "merely" here. It's a complicated mess created by a complicated system overseen by a complicated government.
I disagree. It is not complicated. In our system, an 18 year old is an adult who can enter into a legal and binding financial contract. If they sign the contract, then they should be required to fulfill their part of the deal. Basic contract law. How is that complicated? And, nobody needs a college degree to survive.

[billethkid]

Even more statistics:

U.S. Student Loan Debt Statistics for 2019 | Student Loan Hero (https://studentloanhero.com/student-loan-debt-statistics/)

Yes things today are different. The financial system has way too much tolerance. The same old problem that seems to haunt so many issues of the day....lack of or not very meaningful enforcement.

I do not understand why having student loan debt at graduation is treated like such a surprise.

One borrows while in school to be able to go to school.

Hence one has student loan debt to be repaid....usually starting one yer after graduation.

Lower the interest rates extend the time and enforce the expectation to pay what was committed.

Look at the average loan amounts and the payments in the article above. Amounts owed (in total and monthly payments) are less than many autos financed.

The problem is manageable and solvable (just like it was in many of our days).....the expectation has changed.

[queasy27]

I genuinely don't understand the rampant resentment by younger people against boomers and our so-called handouts and easy lives compared to them.

My single mother received Aid to Families with Dependent children (welfare) when I was growing up. Those sorts of programs are still available.

There was a point in my 20s when I was laid off and received unemployment benefits and food stamps, as they were termed. Those benefits are still available.

I moved out of the house and went to work directly after high school. Didn't go to college until I was 30. Finished two years at a community college before transferring to a nearby state commuter school while working full time at night. Took additional classes each semester and in the summer to finish undergrad and grad school in two years. All those options are still possible.

I supported myself with no family assistance. Received a couple of small scholarships. Graduated with about $39K of student debt in today's dollars. I got partial forgiveness on that due to accepting a job in a high-need job and location. Those programs are still available.

I made double loan payments and paid off the balance in three years. No laws have since been enacted to prevent that.

I'm sure many of you have similar stories. Sorry, but I'm just not seeing how our generation somehow had things so much easier than the ones that followed and deserve to be derided and blamed for for today's economy.

[Northerner52]

The student loan system gave colleges the ability to raise tuition to the stratosphere

[dewilson58]

The student loan system gave colleges the ability to raise tuition to the stratosphere








:1rotfl:


:1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

I genuinely don't understand the rampant resentment by younger people against boomers and our so-called handouts.

My single mother received Aid to Families with Dependent children (welfare) when I was growing up. Those sorts of programs are still available.

There was a point in my 20s when I was laid off and received unemployment benefits and food stamps, as they were termed. Those benefits are still available.

I moved out of the house and went to work directly after high school. Didn't go to college until I was 30. Finished two years at a community college before transferring to a nearby state commuter school while working full time at night. All those options are still available.

Took additional classes each semester and finished undergrad and grad school in two years. Still possible.

I supported myself with no family assistance. Received a couple of small scholarships. Graduated with about $39K of student debt in today's dollars. I got partial forgiveness on that due to accepting a job in a high-need job and location. Those programs are still available.

I made double loan payments and paid off the balance in two years. No laws have since been enacted to prevent that.

I'm sure many of you have similar stories. Sorry, I'm just not seeing how our generation somehow had things easier than the ones that followed. Adjusted for inflation, tuition at my college is now 23% higher than when I was there but heck, I was only making $450 a month.

What handouts, I have not seen any?

[thomp679]

The horse is dead three times over.

[Bay Kid]

Students could always work their way up the ladder. Go to a state community college for 2 years, then you will be accepted to a state college. This is available in Virginia. Very reasonable, excellent education, maybe not as fun, but.

[leftyf]

I know many people who got their degree in the US Military at no cost

[Velvet]

I know many people who got their degree in the US Military at no cost

My cousins, Yale and Columbia, became lawyers.

[C. C. Rider]

Numerous people (including me) in this thread have pointed out numerous very real ways that college can be made more affordable for students even today, but that is not going to stop the perpetual victims from crying "woe is me".

It just seems that when it comes to outlook on life, there are two kinds of people.

The first kind assesses the situation and studies the various possibilities and comes up with a plan to accomplish their goal. It may be a long, hard slog, but they find a way to accomplish it.

The second kind throws up their hands in defeat and helplessness and blames everything on someone else. Then they wait for someone else to solve their problem for them... which is usually through the expenditure of someone else's money.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Numerous people (including me) in this thread have pointed out numerous very real ways that college can be made more affordable for students even today, but that is not going to stop the perpetual victims from crying "woe is me".

It just seems that when it comes to outlook on life, there are two kinds of people.

The first kind assesses the situation and studies the various possibilities and comes up with a plan to accomplish their goal. It may be a long, hard slog, but they find a way to accomplish it.

The second kind throws up their hands in defeat and helplessness and blames everything on someone else. Then they wait for someone else to solve their problem for them... which is usually through the expenditure of someone else's money.

Some folks consistently make things happen. Others consistently let things happen.

[Schaumburger]

Two members of our family decided against college, one even tried it. Both went to trade school and both now have a 6 figure income plus significant benefits. We still need contractors, plumbers, electricians etc. and their income can far exceed college grads. In addition, job placement is highest in the trades because we need their skills. Not everyone can be a lawyer or doctor. I believe that many kids go to college because their parents want them to, they think that's whats best for them and quickly become disillusioned when they can't get into the field of their degree.

In my next life I am coming back as an auto mechanic or a plumber. Both professions have gotten some serious $$$ from me within the past few years.