POA or VHA

[meh414]

Can someone explain the goals and differences between the POA and VHA homeowner groups? I am trying to decide which group I should join. My husband and I are new homewowners in The Villages. Thanks in advance for all constructive and informative information.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

The VHA has never sued the developer.

[Velvet]

If you like to see the elephant from front and back, then both.

[santiagobob]

The VHA is on the side of the Developer, the POA is on the side of the homeowner

[ColdNoMore]

The VHA is on the side of the Developer, the POA is on the side of the homeowner.

Yep.

Only one tries to educate, investigate and pull back the curtain to expose facts and the truth...in an effort to protect homeowners.

Hint: It's not the VHA. :ho:

[New Englander]

The VHA is on the side of the Developer, the POA is on the side of the homeowner

Well said.

[Chatbrat]

True, but do you really need to join either ?--

[Jim 9922]

Read a couple of recent news letters from each. You'll see the big difference.

[Bogie Shooter]

Can someone explain the goals and differences between the POA and VHA homeowner groups? I am trying to decide which group I should join. My husband and I are new homewowners in The Villages. Thanks in advance for all constructive and informative information.

Explained on their web sites:

Home Page - The VHA (https://www.thevha.net/)

Property Owners' Association of The Villages, Inc. (https://poa4us.org/)

[Chatbrat]

One is a cheering section, the other is a nit picking league--neither will benefit the individual homeowner--just be happy we're not controlled by a real HOA/POA--or a bunch of condo commandoes

[eweissenbach]

The POA is totally independent from the developers. The VHA is developer supported. Both groups have a place in the discussion, and offer positive thing to homeowners. I am a supporting member of the POA, as I believe that group is looking out for my best interest.

[graciegirl]

I don't like the POA.

Villages to pay $40M for recreation upgrades - Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2008-03-09-lvillages09-story.html)

[graciegirl]

Explained on their web sites:

Home Page - The VHA (https://www.thevha.net/)

Property Owners' Association of The Villages, Inc. (https://poa4us.org/)

Thank you Bogie. I have to say that I was truly impressed with the group that are currently on the board of the POA...and they do represent a cross section of areas in The Villages. I will have to give them another look. I also could be wrong about all the fracas about the taxes. Maybe I'll just jump off Morse Bridge....and skin my knees. sigh.

[mtdjed]

Neither one has put any money in my pocket or influenced me to buy or sell here. Each has its purpose. I tend to read the POA more so than the VHA.

The POA distribution by throwing it around the neighborhood bothers me. Very little litter in our neighborhood until the POA gets published. Mail it, distribute at stores, but cut the litter!

[SouthOfTheBorder]

..................

The POA distribution by throwing it around the neighborhood bothers me. Very little litter in our neighborhood until the POA gets published. Mail it, distribute at stores, but cut the litter!

:agree:

Don

[Mleeja]

The POA acts more as “political organization” where as the VHA is more of a service organization supporting the residents. They both have their positives, but I am not a fan of the POA.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I will probably end up joining both. For now I just read the POA info online but I'm not a member.

[JoMar]

One is a cheering section, the other is a nit picking league--neither will benefit the individual homeowner--just be happy we're not controlled by a real HOA/POA--or a bunch of condo commandoes

:bigbow:

[Northwoods]

One is a cheering section, the other is a nit picking league--neither will benefit the individual homeowner--just be happy we're not controlled by a real HOA/POA--or a bunch of condo commandoes
:agree:

[manaboutown]

The POA acts more as “political organization” where as the VHA is more of a service organization supporting the residents. They both have their positives, but I am not a fan of the POA.

Actually, the VHA is developer backed and supports the developer whereas the POA supports the residents.

[graciegirl]

Actually, the VHA is developer backed and supports the developer whereas the POA supports the residents.

Actually, when you have been here as long as we have, and experienced life here and observe it close hand, day to day, year in and year out, and see how things are maintained, repaired, painted, replaced and kept nice, and how things are run, you may think as I do;

That the developers, the very quiet Morse family, though wealthy and successful, still works diligently to support the residents.

I cannot think of any place, anywhere, better run, and available for people of broad financial means to enjoy life.

It looks to be another beautiful day in The Villages.

[Spoiler]

Actually, when you have been here as long as we have, and experienced life here and observe it close hand, day to day, year in and year out, and see how things are maintained, repaired, painted, replaced and kept nice, and how things are run, you may think as I do;

That the developers, the very quiet Morse family, though wealthy and successful, still works diligently to support the residents.

I cannot think of any place, anywhere, better run, and available for people of broad financial means to enjoy life.

It looks to be another beautiful day in The Villages.

Well said, and I certainly agree.

I have only been here a short time, but am looking forward to the future.

Spoiler

[JoelJohnson]

I went to the gov IRS web page for 990s (tax form for non-profit organisations). For 2017 The VHA had Gross receipts of $95,588 (Schedule G, line 1) and Other direct expenses of $38,443 (line 10) (no detail). Net income summary $32,823 (line 11).

I just wonder why there is no detail of the $38,443.

[PennBF]

It is interesting as to how things can be distorted and lead to confusion on facts. It is true that $40M is being spent to improve the Village BUT the source is avoided. The $40M is the result of the Paradise Rec Center being ignored while it ran terribly down. When asked to fix it the Developer said no money was put aside and could not repair it. POA at the time sued the Developer to force him to repair the wear and tear. Court agreed that he must fix and fined him $40M which is still being spent to fix things in the villages. Out of this the Developer became angry and formed the HOA as a punishment for forcing him to repair the Rec Center and losing the court case. An arguement you will hear is that in the decision of the court case 4 POA members were awarded $50K per.That is true The one being a critic of this will not add that each of the 4 put up their own money at risk for the suit and the Judge provided this as a result of their time to sue and risk their own money for the residents. Net: HOA formed as punishment for challenging Developer and owe their allegiance to the Developer and the POA to the residents. That is the history of the two..:ho:

[graciegirl]

It is interesting as to how things can be distorted and lead to confusion on facts. It is true that $40M is being spent to improve the Village BUT the source is avoided. The $40M is the result of the Paradise Rec Center being ignored while it ran terribly down. When asked to fix it the Developer said no money was put aside and could not repair it. POA at the time sued the Developer to force him to repair the wear and tear. Court agreed that he must fix and fined him $40M which is still being spent to fix things in the villages. Out of this the Developer became angry and formed the HOA as a punishment for forcing him to repair the Rec Center and losing the court case. An arguement you will hear is that in the decision of the court case 4 POA members were awarded $50K per.That is true The one being a critic of this will not add that each of the 4 put up their own money at risk for the suit and the Judge provided this as a result of their time to sue and risk their own money for the residents. Net: HOA formed as punishment for challenging Developer and owe their allegiance to the Developer and the POA to the residents. That is the history of the two..:ho:

I lived here then. I saw nothing wrong with Paradise rec center at that time and watched them maintain Odell Rec Center with new paint and power washing every year with my own eyes. I know this because at that time our property abutted Odell. We were smaller than and many people went to Paradise to art and to play cards. I still do occasionally.

[Boomer]

It is interesting as to how things can be distorted and lead to confusion on facts. It is true that $40M is being spent to improve the Village BUT the source is avoided. The $40M is the result of the Paradise Rec Center being ignored while it ran terribly down. When asked to fix it the Developer said no money was put aside and could not repair it. POA at the time sued the Developer to force him to repair the wear and tear. Court agreed that he must fix and fined him $40M which is still being spent to fix things in the villages. Out of this the Developer became angry and formed the HOA as a punishment for forcing him to repair the Rec Center and losing the court case. An arguement you will hear is that in the decision of the court case 4 POA members were awarded $50K per.That is true The one being a critic of this will not add that each of the 4 put up their own money at risk for the suit and the Judge provided this as a result of their time to sue and risk their own money for the residents. Net: HOA formed as punishment for challenging Developer and owe their allegiance to the Developer and the POA to the residents. That is the history of the two..:ho:

Thank you for providing “the rest of the story” — which I already knew but now others can, too.

I have to think, or hope, that the Case of the Rotting Rec Center will have a continuing positive effect on maintenance of the whole place as TV moves farther away from its beginnings.

We got a brand new roof, at no cost to us, because the POA was diligent in working “with” (ahem) the developer when houses in part of the LSL section were found to have a bad run of shingles.

[Mleeja]

It is interesting as to how things can be distorted and lead to confusion on facts. It is true that $40M is being spent to improve the Village BUT the source is avoided. The $40M is the result of the Paradise Rec Center being ignored while it ran terribly down. When asked to fix it the Developer said no money was put aside and could not repair it. POA at the time sued the Developer to force him to repair the wear and tear. Court agreed that he must fix and fined him $40M which is still being spent to fix things in the villages. Out of this the Developer became angry and formed the HOA as a punishment for forcing him to repair the Rec Center and losing the court case. An arguement you will hear is that in the decision of the court case 4 POA members were awarded $50K per.That is true The one being a critic of this will not add that each of the 4 put up their own money at risk for the suit and the Judge provided this as a result of their time to sue and risk their own money for the residents. Net: HOA formed as punishment for challenging Developer and owe their allegiance to the Developer and the POA to the residents. That is the history of the two..:ho:

Except not all of this is true. Yes the developer was sued and was orders to set aside funds for maintenance and upkeep of the recreation facilities. Out of this was the creation of the AAC. The VHA was formed and chartered in 1990/1991.

[graciegirl]

Except not all of this is true. Yes the developer was sued and was orders to set aside funds for maintenance and upkeep of the recreation facilities. Out of this was the creation of the AAC. The VHA was formed and chartered in 1990/1991.

AND...please help me here Mleeja, The AAC is a different sort of thing than the rest of The Villages, right??? The AAC sort of got "powers" to make decisions about their area that are different than the rest of The Villages? Exactly what area does the AAC cover?

[retiredguy123]

I went to the gov IRS web page for 990s (tax form for non-profit organisations). For 2017 The VHA had Gross receipts of $95,588 (Schedule G, line 1) and Other direct expenses of $38,443 (line 10) (no detail). Net income summary $32,823 (line 11).

I just wonder why there is no detail of the $38,443.
I read a lot of Form 990's on charitynavigator.org. Sometimes you can get some useful information, but often they are just gobbledygook.

[ureout]

I've been here almost 18yrs. and am very thankful for the hard work of the POA .. yes TV is a great place to live and yes for the most part the developer does a great job.. BUT remember 1 thing they are here to make $$$.. the POA would have never had to been formed if the VHA would have stood up for the misappropriation of amenity fees ... The agreement also created a resident-controlled "Amenity Authority Committee" that will have a louder voice in the use of amenity fees.

The AAC was a big deal back then where we as residents finally had a voice as to what we wanted done and not what the developer dictated

below is an article from the Orlando Sentinel


Villages settles lawsuit, will fund $40 million in recreation upgrades
Article Courtesy of The Orlando Sentinel
By Stephen Hudak
Published Match 9, 2008
THE VILLAGES - The powerful developer and corporations behind The Villages have agreed in a civil court settlement to pay $40 million over 13 years to cover improvements and repairs to recreation centers, swimming pools and other facilities that make the retirement community alluring.

The class-action lawsuit contended monthly amenity fees paid by every homeowner in the sprawling community of 70,000 residents had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Inc., the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse.

Under the settlement, the money will replenish depleted accounts used to finance facility improvements and pay pool monitors, after-hours golf ambassadors and Neighborhood Watch staff.

The lawsuit was prompted by residents like Elaine Dreidame, 64, who complained about mildew and mold in the ceiling tiles of the Paradise Recreation Center, where she played bridge twice a week.

Dreidame, who moved to the retirement community in 1999, figured "Florida's Friendliest Hometown" had money set aside to improve its oldest recreational facility.

Well, not enough, she found out.

The retired university administrator from Dayton, Ohio, grew more concerned as she began noting similar, subtle drop-offs in other services throughout the community that she affectionately calls "year-round adult summer camp."

The money is supposed to be used to maintain the golf courses, swimming pools and other comforts that make The Villages a desirable home for active, older adults.

Long-shot lawsuit

The lawsuit seemed unlikely to succeed, according to court records showing that a retired judge and six major law firms from Tallahassee to Miami declined to take it.

But the case concluded last week in Lake County, where Circuit Judge Lawrence Semento approved a settlement agreement that requires the developer to pay about $40 million over the next 13 years to replenish maintenance accounts.

The settlement also requires the defendants to pay $50,000 each to Dreidame and four other named plaintiffs and $6.7 million to the plaintiffs' brother-sister legal team, Dougald McMillan and Carol McMillan Anderson.

Carol Anderson said she took the case because she lives in The Villages.

Her brother, a practicing lawyer for 50 years, was best known for prosecuting organized crime figure Meyer Lansky.

Through their defense lawyers, Stephen Johnson and Archie Lowery, Morse and the other defendants denied any wrongdoing or misappropriation.

"[The developer] has looked at the settlement as an issue of what's good for the community," Johnson said Wednesday in court.

The settlement includes confidentiality and nondisparagement clauses, which prevent the parties from discussing the case or criticizing Morse or The Villages.

'David and Goliath'

Donald Maciejewski, a Jacksonville lawyer who has handled mass-plaintiff air-disaster cases, called the lawsuit a "true David and Goliath" case, citing the defendants' financial strength.

In an affidavit submitted to the judge to justify attorney fees, Maciejewski said the novelty and complexity of the case suggested that the plaintiffs' chances for success were "virtually zero."

He also pointed out that McMillan and Anderson were "a last resort."

Dreidame had said that if the siblings wouldn't take their case, "she was going to drop the issue . . . and get back to enjoying retirement," Maciejewski said.

Anderson praised Morse and his lawyers, saying the settlement proves they have the community's best interest at heart.

Tee-time limits

The settlement also includes other provisions that can be classified as uniquely The Villages, including limits on the number of tee times that can be reserved by the developer's sales staff for prospective customers.

The developer also will provide money to widen six miles of golf-cart paths to better accommodate bicyclists, joggers and roller-skaters.

The agreement also creates a resident-controlled "Amenity Authority Committee" that will have a louder voice in the use of amenity fees.

[eweissenbach]

Actually, when you have been here as long as we have, and experienced life here and observe it close hand, day to day, year in and year out, and see how things are maintained, repaired, painted, replaced and kept nice, and how things are run, you may think as I do;

That the developers, the very quiet Morse family, though wealthy and successful, still works diligently to support the residents.

I cannot think of any place, anywhere, better run, and available for people of broad financial means to enjoy life.

It looks to be another beautiful day in The Villages.

All you say here is true GG, this is the best developed and run planned community in the world. While the Morse family does work diligently to support the residents, there is a strong profit motive to do so, and if a conflict between the bottom line and resident concerns presents itself, they will often, if not always, choose the enhancement of the bottom line. BTW this is not a condemnation but simply an example of the way most free enterprise works. The POA is a watchdog for the residents’ interests, totally independent from and, by most accounts, considered to be hostile by the developers. This is an excellent check to the power of the developer, benevolent or not.

[iaudit]

I don't like the POA.

Villages to pay $40M for recreation upgrades - Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2008-03-09-lvillages09-story.html)

So, in other words, our amenity fees should be raised to cover the costs that he didnt set aside to maintain the facilities used by the residents. Unbelievable.

[graciegirl]

So, in other words, our amenity fees should be raised to cover the costs that he didnt set aside to maintain the facilities used by the residents. Unbelievable.

I wonder if anyone will ever know for sure just exactly what went on. It is sealed.

I see many instances where something less nice could easily have been substituted in our regional rec centers. And in many other areas. People each have their own histories and their own motives to interpret many life situations. Many people are against any successful capitalist venture and many are jealous of others financial success.

[ColdNoMore]

All you say here is true GG, this is the best developed and run planned community in the world. While the Morse family does work diligently to support the residents, there is a strong profit motive to do so, and if a conflict between the bottom line and resident concerns presents itself, they will often, if not always, choose the enhancement of the bottom line. BTW this is not a condemnation but simply an example of the way most free enterprise works. The POA is a watchdog for the residents’ interests, totally independent from and, by most accounts, considered to be hostile by the developers.

This is an excellent check to the power of the developer, benevolent or not.

While there is a certain % of people who aren't in favor of "checks & balances" in general, I am personally thankful that we have them...where they exist. :ho:

[PennBF]

In one case it is asserted the Paradise Rec Center was fine which implies the fine of $40M was because of the error of the Judge and may have been for some under handed reason? How many know the distinction between AAC and Project Wide. How about the AAC has a 3% cap or less based on a US Index and Project Wide is for repair and maintenance and has no control and is a line item on your Property Annual Tax Billing. How many know of AAC line items charged to Project Wide which has no limit and allegedly would be corrupting the Village spending controls? No one I know says they don't love the Villages BUT to assert all is above boards is to show a tolerance to some form of potential abuse. When multi millions of dollars are involved you can rest assured there is possible abuse and you should follow the money. This is one advantage of the POA.

[Mleeja]

In one case it is asserted the Paradise Rec Center was fine which implies the fine of $40M was because of the error of the Judge and may have been for some under handed reason? How many know the distinction between AAC and Project Wide. How about the AAC has a 3% cap or less based on a US Index and Project Wide is for repair and maintenance and has no control and is a line item on your Property Annual Tax Billing. How many know of AAC line items charged to Project Wide which has no limit and allegedly would be corrupting the Village spending controls? No one I know says they don't love the Villages BUT to assert all is above boards is to show a tolerance to some form of potential abuse. When multi millions of dollars are involved you can rest assured there is possible abuse and you should follow the money. This is one advantage of the POA.

Again there are some factually incorrect statements in this post. The funds for the AAC and PWAC are derived from the monthly Amenity Fees. They do NOT appear as a line item on your property tax bill. The Bond Maintenance fee which appears on the property tax bill is funding for the CDDs.

[ureout]

I wonder if anyone will ever know for sure just exactly what went on. It is sealed.

I see many instances where something less nice could easily have been substituted in our regional rec centers. And in many other areas. People each have their own histories and their own motives to interpret many life situations. Many people are against any successful capitalist venture and many are jealous of others financial success.

Gracie, it doesn't always come down to being jealous of financial success.. you have ALWAYS been a big proponent of TV and for the most part I am to... BUT I don't stick my head in the sand and say everything is OK the Morse's would never do us wrong because history shows that they made a mistake and never tried to fix their mistake... In order to get it corrected they had to be taken to court and they lost... 1 other thing to think about.. with all the power they have here in Fl. and all their high powered atty's they have I was shocked that a sister and brother living here in TV ended up winning the law suit... that show's you how wrong they must have been

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Gracie, it doesn't always come down to being jealous of financial success.. you have ALWAYS been a big proponent of TV and for the most part I am to... BUT I don't stick my head in the sand and say everything is OK the Morse's would never do us wrong because history shows that they made a mistake and never tried to fix their mistake... In order to get it corrected they had to be taken to court and they lost... 1 other thing to think about.. with all the power they have here in Fl. and all their high powered atty's they have I was shocked that a sister and brother living here in TV ended up winning the law suit... that show's you how wrong they must have been

I'm not seeing where they won the lawsuit. I'm only seeing that the Morses agreed to a settlement. If what I'm understanding is true that means no one won or lost the suit, it was settled with a monetary payout instead.

[quinnpd]

Can someone explain the goals and differences between the POA and VHA homeowner groups? I am trying to decide which group I should join. My husband and I are new homewowners in The Villages. Thanks in advance for all constructive and informative information.

Join both, we did. Inexpensive

[ureout]

I'm not seeing where they won the lawsuit. I'm only seeing that the Morses agreed to a settlement. If what I'm understanding is true that means no one won or lost the suit, it was settled with a monetary payout instead.


yes, you are correct, it was an agreement but do you think the Morse's would have given in and paid out $40million if they thought they had a chance at winning... and to me when you go in with $0 and come out with $40,000,000 it is a win!!