Is connectivity to south of SR44 slipping again?

[Goldwingnut]

Today's Villages magazine insert shed greater uncertainty on when connectivity will happen between the north and south ends of The Villages. Many times what isn't said is just as important as what is said.

In the December 2018 edition connectivity was shown as January 2020, obviously over optimistic.

Earlier this year in one of the videos put out by The Villages it was stated that the May time-frame was the date for connectivity, now this appears questionable.

Looking at the insert that arrived this morning there are no dates mentioned only the statement "...next year you'll be able to travel by golf car through a network of bridges and tunnels that are under construction." (page 15). This makes the connectivity date vague at best. Also interesting to note is the date for when Magnolia Plaza will become a reality has now changed to "COMING SOON", (page 14 map) not a reassuring date.

Amazingly, if you drive to the Tailwinds area on CR466A, the Publix that is being built there if coming up very quickly and work there only started about 2 months ago, not 6 months ago like Magnolia Plaza. The differences are somewhat staggering to see.

As we close in on 3 years since the first homes were sold in Fenney I can't help but wonder about the level of frustration many are feeling in not just the slow progress at making the connectivity but also the complete lack of communications by the developer in keeping people informed. A press release with few paragraphs of facts and information, not the usual sales hype, in the newspaper would go a very long way in dispelling the rumors and misinformation that continues to fly about. As a privately owned company the developer is not obligated to say anything but the silence is becoming deafening.

The new areas are absolutely gorgeous and the amenities continue to get better than we've seen before with each new opening, and I've considered many times relocating there as I've watched the area grow and develop. I've learned to watch both hands of the magician as he performs his magic, here it's become harder to watch the non-show hand to get a good comfort level, and I'm just not there yet.

On a somewhat more positive note, the steel has started to arrive for the Chitty-Chatty bridge next to the Rohan so work should start soon on this 3rd bridge. One has to wonder though if it will just become another giant billboard for the next year.

In a few years I'm sure we'll all look back and say "Wow, that happened quick", but for now things seem to be stumbling along.

[FenneyFanatic]

I've been wondering the same thing. I miss your drone videos! They reassured us that progress WAS in fact being made south of 44..

[graciegirl]

Today's Villages magazine insert shed greater uncertainty on when connectivity will happen between the north and south ends of The Villages. Many times what isn't said is just as important as what is said.

In the December 2018 edition connectivity was shown as January 2020, obviously over optimistic.

Earlier this year in one of the videos put out by The Villages it was stated that the May time-frame was the date for connectivity, now this appears questionable.

Looking at the insert that arrived this morning there are no dates mentioned only the statement "...next year you'll be able to travel by golf car through a network of bridges and tunnels that are under construction." (page 15). This makes the connectivity date vague at best. Also interesting to note is the date for when Magnolia Plaza will become a reality has now changed to "COMING SOON", (page 14 map) not a reassuring date.

Amazingly, if you drive to the Tailwinds area on CR466A, the Publix that is being built there if coming up very quickly and work there only started about 2 months ago, not 6 months ago like Magnolia Plaza. The differences are somewhat staggering to see.

As we close in on 3 years since the first homes were sold in Fenney I can't help but wonder about the level of frustration many are feeling in not just the slow progress at making the connectivity but also the complete lack of communications by the developer in keeping people informed. A press release with few paragraphs of facts and information, not the usual sales hype, in the newspaper would go a very long way in dispelling the rumors and misinformation that continues to fly about. As a privately owned company the developer is not obligated to say anything but the silence is becoming deafening.

The new areas are absolutely gorgeous and the amenities continue to get better than we've seen before with each new opening, and I've considered many times relocating there as I've watched the area grow and develop. I've learned to watch both hands of the magician as he performs his magic, here it's become harder to watch the non-show hand to get a good comfort level, and I'm just not there yet.

On a somewhat more positive note, the steal has started to arrive for the Chitty-Chatty bridge next to the Rohan so work should start soon on this 3rd bridge. One has to wonder though if it will just become another giant billboard for the next year.

In a few years I'm sure we'll all look back and say "Wow, that happened quick", but for now things seem to be stumbling along.

Do you think the Morse organization is financially over extended? The tax thing made me wonder.

[biker1]

It would be great if you could do another drone video starting at Brownwood and going south over the land where the golf cart path will eventually reside so we can see what progress has been made. Thanks.

Today's Villages magazine insert shed greater uncertainty on when connectivity will happen between the north and south ends of The Villages. Many times what isn't said is just as important as what is said.

In the December 2018 edition connectivity was shown as January 2020, obviously over optimistic.

Earlier this year in one of the videos put out by The Villages it was stated that the May time-frame was the date for connectivity, now this appears questionable.

Looking at the insert that arrived this morning there are no dates mentioned only the statement "...next year you'll be able to travel by golf car through a network of bridges and tunnels that are under construction." (page 15). This makes the connectivity date vague at best. Also interesting to note is the date for when Magnolia Plaza will become a reality has now changed to "COMING SOON", (page 14 map) not a reassuring date.

Amazingly, if you drive to the Tailwinds area on CR466A, the Publix that is being built there if coming up very quickly and work there only started about 2 months ago, not 6 months ago like Magnolia Plaza. The differences are somewhat staggering to see.

As we close in on 3 years since the first homes were sold in Fenney I can't help but wonder about the level of frustration many are feeling in not just the slow progress at making the connectivity but also the complete lack of communications by the developer in keeping people informed. A press release with few paragraphs of facts and information, not the usual sales hype, in the newspaper would go a very long way in dispelling the rumors and misinformation that continues to fly about. As a privately owned company the developer is not obligated to say anything but the silence is becoming deafening.

The new areas are absolutely gorgeous and the amenities continue to get better than we've seen before with each new opening, and I've considered many times relocating there as I've watched the area grow and develop. I've learned to watch both hands of the magician as he performs his magic, here it's become harder to watch the non-show hand to get a good comfort level, and I'm just not there yet.

On a somewhat more positive note, the steal has started to arrive for the Chitty-Chatty bridge next to the Rohan so work should start soon on this 3rd bridge. One has to wonder though if it will just become another giant billboard for the next year.

In a few years I'm sure we'll all look back and say "Wow, that happened quick", but for now things seem to be stumbling along.

[vintageogauge]

We've been here since May, 2017 when there were very few people living here and everyone knew each other. We purchased our golf car in November of that year to ride around and watch all the growth that was going on not being concerned about tunnels or bridges to the north. I may be in the minority but I'm in no hurry to see the final connection to the areas north of 44 as I doubt that I'll go north more than one trip to Brownwood just to try it out. My concern is the possibility of overcrowding, it's already very busy down here which we expected to happen. I do welcome the Magnolia Plaza "coming soon" but it too is not on the top of my list as The Lake Deaton Plaza is only a few minutes away from us and it's very near to those living in Linden and Marsh Bend. What we really need are Primary Care Doctors that are not part of The Villages Health System, those of us having supplemental insurance can and do use their specialists but are not able to use their Primaries. There are a handful at Lake Sumter and they are very crowded, but most are north of 466. We also need the intersection of 468 and 301 to be completed. In a year or so all of the concerns will be met and everyone west of the Turnpike will be happy.

[dewilson58]

As we close in on 3 years since the first homes were sold in Fenney I can't help but wonder about the level of frustration many are feeling in not just the slow progress at making the connectivity but also the complete lack of communications by the developer in keeping people informed. A press release with few paragraphs of facts and information, not the usual sales hype, in the newspaper would go a very long way in dispelling the rumors and misinformation that continues to fly about. As a privately owned company the developer is not obligated to say anything but the silence is becoming deafening.






No need to wonder about frustration..............I've told to a lot of Southerners and no one of them are in a hurry for the connection. Not One.


I assume there might be a few wondering when.


But everyone I've talked to are very happy and did not "fall for the sales hype".


It's the Northerners trying to create frustration. Like most things in TV, a few pot-stir'rs try to create negativity.


:ho:

[TommyT]

Things today are NOT the same since Gary Morse left us. He built ALL the connections, GC paths, rec centers, etc... before the first home was constructed. You knew what was there before you purchased.
Today, the family is ONLY interested in building and selling homes.

The Villages is not what is used to be and I for one see the downfall beginning...

[graciegirl]

Things today are NOT the same since Gary Morse left us. He built ALL the connections, GC paths, rec centers, etc... before the first home was constructed. You knew what was there before you purchased.
Today, the family is ONLY interested in building and selling homes.

The Villages is not what is used to be and I for one see the downfall beginning...

I don't agree with that. The scale of building has increased enormously but building and selling houses is what the Morse family does. Let's not start denigrating people for profitable business. Our nations economic health is based on that, not someone spending government money. (that ultimately comes out of all of our pockets)

I don't think the Morse family is without fault but neither are they malicious scammers. They years ago passed the standard of great wealth and own anything they might aspire to. They don't need more money. I just hope they are still all working together. Last years State of The Villages presentation at the Sharon didn't seem like all three were still as involved as they once were. Granted, even the Morse family keeps getting older, just like we do, and people have a right to retire.

So far it has been a wonderful success. I am hoping it will continue. I am rooting for that.

[Number 10 GI]

My biggest complaint is the work being done on Warm Springs Ave, aka 468. The changes are being done piece meal instead of doing it all at one time. It took a long time to get the intersection of 501 and Warms Springs completed. The work on widening the road to 4 lanes between 501 and 301 is still going on and it has been over a year. The new roundabout on the east side of the turnpike created another bottleneck and congestion, and now after months of that mess and it is completed, then they create another choke point by digging up the road for a golf cart tunnel. The slow pace of construction is uncalled for, they're digging in sand not blasing granite to build the roadway. I know it isn't all contractor's fault as the work is being done by the state, county, and whoever, but you would think some of these well paid decision makers would use a bit of common sense. As you can tell I'm getting pretty tired of detours and sand and debris on the roadway.

[bagboy]

I had to recheck my tablet settings. I could have sworn I was logged onto the Villages hyphen News site, or the POA site. Things will be done when they get done. In the big scheme of things, looking back to how far the Villages have come since the beginning, progress has been very quick. Villagers down Fenney way don't seem to be worried like others are.

[rustyp]

Things today are NOT the same since Gary Morse left us. He built ALL the connections, GC paths, rec centers, etc... before the first home was constructed. You knew what was there before you purchased.
Today, the family is ONLY interested in building and selling homes.

The Villages is not what is used to be and I for one see the downfall beginning...

Since Gary ? How about when Harold left us. Just today we were reminded of Budweiser Clydesdales and real snow making machines at the Christmas Tree lightings when Harold was alive. They were in front of Katie Bells - remember that exclusive for members only club we considered our flagship. Free golf and Katie Bell's was the sales pitch. The early lifestyle visits included Katie Bell's dollars. People on here think we are so negative but they forget most are new here and have not experienced the changes. In 2003 when Harold passed population was around 30000. Today TV is approaching 140000. Like the old story goes I didn't know we were poor growing up until the government told me. Thus many of you are comparing the past to your hometowns, not here because you were not here. Harold was about the people. Sure he was a businessman and was in it to make money. However he loved the people, He did not live as an isolationist. Harold donated 1 million dollars of his own money to the then Villages corporation to build Spanish Springs Town Square because the corporation did not have the funds to do it as he saw what it deserved to be.

We are on the third generation of a family business. There's an old adage about that . Now I still haven't found a better place but seen many changes and each change seems to be more business oriented. Slogan was live like a millionaire on a retirement budget. I see signs of the class system raising it's ugly head. That won't be good for a "Friendly Hometown".

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.

Again please don't tell me you are free to leave. I am fully aware of that and will when my barometer pegs. However I try to point out to newbies there is a history here and you should make a little effort to understand this new place you now call home.

[Polar Bear]

What ever happened to judging a place simply by whether you like it or not...now.

[rustyp]

What ever happened to judging a place simply by whether you like it or not...now.

Absolutely nothing. But that doesn't give one the right to shoot the messenger when their opinion is different. That was not an acquisition against you personally just a generalization. I also believe this TOTV is meant to be a place to share those opinions so one can see both sides and that includes if and when some of the glitter wears off. I often post the other side of a story even if I'm not an actual proponent of the point I'm trying to convey.

[Chi-Town]

Things today are NOT the same since Gary Morse left us. He built ALL the connections, GC paths, rec centers, etc... before the first home was constructed. You knew what was there before you purchased.
Today, the family is ONLY interested in building and selling homes.

The Villages is not what is used to be and I for one see the downfall beginning...

Hopefully not the beginning of a downfall but the game plan sure has changed. If it weren't for the strong history of The Villages success I would be leary as a new home buyer.

[Marathon Man]

Here is a thought. Just because the 'third generation' decides to proceed in a different manner than previous, doesn't mean that they are doing wrong. Yes, they chose to build a lot of homes before the ammenities were created, but, many ammenites are now in place with others on the way.

I just don't get finding fault in so many things that are so insignificant. This is the best community there is. After all, many complain, few leave,

[Goldwingnut]

Do you think the Morse organization is financially over extended? The tax thing made me wonder.

No I don't think financially they are over extended. I think the construction resources resources are being stretched to their limits. In the past they focused on one or two large areas in CDDs that were in the 1000-1500 acre ranges. Now there are at least 6 major construction areas in CDDs that are pushing 2500 acres, this spreads things quite thin for equipment and manpower for the contractors.

Don't forget that 3 years ago at this time they got a $350 Million cash infusion when the amenities north of SR44 were sold and they are about to get another $200 Million cash out from the sale of the utilities north of SR44. None of this is a bad thing as these were all built and invested in by the developer to support the community development and homes sales, but it's not their core business.

Taxes aren't really an issue, businesses don't pay taxes, never have, never will, they collect taxes and pass them along to the appropriate government body. Taxes are no different than labor and material, just another cost of the project that is rolled into the final price. We, the customer and end user, pay the taxes not the businesses, not The Villages, not Walmart, not McDonalds, just us in the end.

[Goldwingnut]

Things today are NOT the same since Gary Morse left us. He built ALL the connections, GC paths, rec centers, etc... before the first home was constructed. You knew what was there before you purchased.
Today, the family is ONLY interested in building and selling homes.

The Villages is not what is used to be and I for one see the downfall beginning...

What we are seeing in the amenity-home gap is the result of a) the disconnected construction process, b) the Wildwood Springs acquisition, and c) the increase in green-space and amenities being included in the newer areas.

A & B are directly related. When Wildwood Springs was acquired it was already established as a CDD and development plans had been through the initial process of approvals. They were able to start construction work almost immediately. This was unlike the Cresswind property that appears to have been the next logical step that still needed to have a development plan and CDD formation approved. Because Wildwood Springs was disconnected from the rest of The Villages there was no natural progression and sharing of the amenity resources that had occurred in the past that made things seem seamless and already in place. Instead all new amenities had to be built at the same time as homes were being built which makes things appear backwards from the previous trends in The Villages. Basically they've been playing catch up for the last 3 years. With the Low Lands course and Water Lilly rec centers they appear to be back on track.

Wildwood Springs is now knows as the villages of Fenney and DeSoto. Cresswind is the areas south of Brownwood and adjacent to Lake Okahumpka that is currently under construction.

C is a contributing factor to the time it has taken to catch up with the amenity construction, there is more green-spaces/park like areas and the amenities are much larger and more elaborate that before and anywhere else in The Villages. Maintaining the natural areas that they have also has required longer roads to connect the more spread out areas.

Again, they've been playing catch up for a while now but they appear to be back ahead of the game now.

I completely disagree with your comment about the "family"'s interest. If you look at the approach they have been using the last few years you see a big shift towards both being more environmentally friendly and preserving of the natural areas you will see that this has come at a great cost of time, effort, and the number of homes being built. Hogeye Sink could have easily been backfilled and Hogeye creek been established in its place and many dozens of new homes built in its place. Instead this natural area as well as others have been preserved. This all comes at a cost. It also creates a more desirable community long term, they are actually investing in their and our futures with this greener approach to building. It's a different mindset than in the past and more in line with the values of those now and in the future retiring. This isn't the beginning of the end of The Villages, it is the beginning of a new era of The Villages.

[Goldwingnut]

I don't agree with that. The scale of building has increased enormously but building and selling houses is what the Morse family does. Let's not start denigrating people for profitable business. Our nations economic health is based on that, not someone spending government money. (that ultimately comes out of all of our pockets)

I don't think the Morse family is without fault but neither are they malicious scammers. They years ago passed the standard of great wealth and own anything they might aspire to. They don't need more money. I just hope they are still all working together. Last years State of The Villages presentation at the Sharon didn't seem like all three were still as involved as they once were. Granted, even the Morse family keeps getting older, just like we do, and people have a right to retire.

So far it has been a wonderful success. I am hoping it will continue. I am rooting for that.

Gracie I agree with you on all but one point, the scale of the building, in so far as the number of homes goes, has remained relatively constant over the last decade, the scale as far as acreage and number of sites has however definitely increased. As I stated in a previous post this scale increase in size and number of locations appears to have put a strain on the local construction resources.

It is amazing to see how short some people's memories can be. It was okay for them to work hard and be successful in their endeavors, this wasn't greed or arrogance, but when someone else does it (the developer) it is. This quickly translates to "I got mine, you can stop building now because you're being greedy". Capitalism is a wonderful system and is the reason we are all able to live here.

[EdFNJ]

Hey folks the whole world has changed. As some so-called politician recently said "Get Used To It." Used to be 40cent gas and people who cleaned your car windows with a smile, 24c/pack cigarettes (I never smoked but I remember getting them for my dad in a machine with a quarter and having a penny stuck inside the wrapper). What is gained by telling new people how it was 30-40 years ago during the George Washington administration. You want things to be like they were 30-40 years ago? It's either ALL or NOTHING not just the things that you like. For the "oldies" I understand your reminiscence but for new people what do they care how it was 30-40 years ago (or whatever the "old days" here were). Sounds like a bunch of old folks wanting to go back to the 1920's because newspapers were only a penny. :D

[Bogie Shooter]

Since Gary ? How about when Harold left us. Just today we were reminded of Budweiser Clydesdales and real snow making machines at the Christmas Tree lightings when Harold was alive. They were in front of Katie Bells - remember that exclusive for members only club we considered our flagship. Free golf and Katie Bell's was the sales pitch. The early lifestyle visits included Katie Bell's dollars. People on here think we are so negative but they forget most are new here and have not experienced the changes. In 2003 when Harold passed population was around 30000. Today TV is approaching 140000. Like the old story goes I didn't know we were poor growing up until the government told me. Thus many of you are comparing the past to your hometowns, not here because you were not here. Harold was about the people. Sure he was a businessman and was in it to make money. However he loved the people, He did not live as an isolationist. Harold donated 1 million dollars of his own money to the then Villages corporation to build Spanish Springs Town Square because the corporation did not have the funds to do it as he saw what it deserved to be.

We are on the third generation of a family business. There's an old adage about that . Now I still haven't found a better place but seen many changes and each change seems to be more business oriented. Slogan was live like a millionaire on a retirement budget. I see signs of the class system raising it's ugly head. That won't be good for a "Friendly Hometown".

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.

Again please don't tell me you are free to leave. I am fully aware of that and will when my barometer pegs. However I try to point out to newbies there is a history here and you should make a little effort to understand this new place you now call home.

The they in this case is us.....aren't the flowers part of or maintenance charge? Not that greedy Developer.

[tophcfa]

Instead all new amenities had to be built at the same time as homes were being built which makes things appear backwards from the previous trends in The Villages. Basically they've been playing catch up for the last 3 years. With the Low Lands course and Water Lilly rec centers they appear to be back on track.

Again, they've been playing catch up for a while now but they appear to be back ahead of the game now.

.

They are nowhere close to being back on track, no less ahead of the game if you are someone who values Championship Golf as an important amenity.

[tophcfa]

Taxes aren't really an issue, businesses don't pay taxes, never have, never will, they collect taxes and pass them along to the appropriate government body. Taxes are no different than labor and material, just another cost of the project that is rolled into the final price.

Goldwingnut, your above statement needs to be modified. As recently proven, taxes can either be rolled into the final price of the project, or they can be jamed down the throats of existing homeowners.

[Goldwingnut]

Since Gary ? How about when Harold left us. Just today we were reminded of Budweiser Clydesdales and real snow making machines at the Christmas Tree lightings when Harold was alive. They were in front of Katie Bells - remember that exclusive for members only club we considered our flagship. Free golf and Katie Bell's was the sales pitch. The early lifestyle visits included Katie Bell's dollars. People on here think we are so negative but they forget most are new here and have not experienced the changes. In 2003 when Harold passed population was around 30000. Today TV is approaching 140000. Like the old story goes I didn't know we were poor growing up until the government told me. Thus many of you are comparing the past to your hometowns, not here because you were not here. Harold was about the people. Sure he was a businessman and was in it to make money. However he loved the people, He did not live as an isolationist. Harold donated 1 million dollars of his own money to the then Villages corporation to build Spanish Springs Town Square because the corporation did not have the funds to do it as he saw what it deserved to be.

We are on the third generation of a family business. There's an old adage about that . Now I still haven't found a better place but seen many changes and each change seems to be more business oriented. Slogan was live like a millionaire on a retirement budget. I see signs of the class system raising it's ugly head. That won't be good for a "Friendly Hometown".

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.

Again please don't tell me you are free to leave. I am fully aware of that and will when my barometer pegs. However I try to point out to newbies there is a history here and you should make a little effort to understand this new place you now call home.

Yes, The Villages has grown quit a bit in the last 16 years since HS left us, but don't think this wasn't all a part of his plans. Watch this video The Building of Brownwood - Exciting Construction Plans - YouTube (https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=120) and they talk about the Brownwood location being known before any home was build south of CR466 (not CR466A). This significantly predates HS's death and without a doubt is clear that the current growth was greatly influenced by both HS and GM. They well knew in the late 90's that The Villages would grow beyond SR44 and farther south as we see it today. You don't invest $100+ million in a premier commercial district only to put it on the fringe of your target customers, you put it right smack in the middle of your customer base (as we are now seeing this to be true). If SR44 was to be the end of The Villages then Brownwood would have been built were the Truman and Roosevelt golf courses are located today.

Unfortunately, most good things usually come to an end, normally the demise is due to abuse. Katie Belles is a prime example of this, it wasn't a private and free attraction, it was a business and businesses have to make money to continue to be viable. The few times I went there for dinner there were a large number of people camping out there having an ice tea or water and taking up a table for hours on end, not spending any money and enjoying the free entertainment that was anything but free to the proprietor. They can't make money with this type of entitled abuse and they can't stay in business. Hence the change in business model. The country clubs suffer for the same syndrome, one has already closed its doors for the same reason, how many more will follow?

By the way, in the business world, it's called a $1 million investment not a donation.

[Goldwingnut]

Goldwingnut, your above statement needs to be modified. As recently proven, taxes can either be rolled into the final price of the project, or they can be jamed down the throats of existing homeowners.

One is a cost of doing business the other is poor government planning. The developer didn't do it, the county government did it. I'm not taking sides with the developer, I'm pointing out the fault where it belongs. Do you honestly think another $1000 added to the price of a house would have deterred any sales over the last decade?

Yes, we all got screwed because some in county government wanted to put a feather in their own hats and say "look at us, no tax increase for 14 years", now we all see that there were short sighted fool that didn't bother to look at their 5 year forecasts that are required every year. Repaving of roads just snuck up on them and the development they approved had cost to the county they chose to ignore until it was too late.

[Goldwingnut]

They are nowhere close to being back on track, no less ahead of the game if you are someone who values Championship Golf as an important amenity.

A Championship golf courses are NOT an amenity, they are a private business. They receive $0 from the amenity budget, they have to survive on their customer base alone. If you look at the numbers, it takes about 6500-7200 homes to support a championship course here in The Villages. Less than 3000 homes have been sold south of SR44. A championship course cannot survive without an adequate customer base, which still doesn't exist.

[Goldwingnut]

The they in this case is us.....aren't the flowers part of or maintenance charge? Not that greedy Developer.

Most of the flowers costs are from the maintenance assessments, some come from the amenity fee, and some come from the commercial area maintenance fees, it just depends on the location.

The budgets show that the cost of the flowers and other plant change outs that happen 4 times a year is less than 25 cents per month per home of the average $500 annual maintenance fee that is paid by each.

[tophcfa]

A Championship golf courses are NOT an amenity, they are a private business. They receive $0 from the amenity budget, they have to survive on their customer base alone. If you look at the numbers, it takes about 6500-7200 homes to support a championship course here in The Villages. Less than 3000 homes have been sold south of SR44. A championship course cannot survive without an adequate customer base, which still doesn't exist.

I understand the courses are private businesses, but I consider the availability of Championship golf to be one of the most important draws of moving to the Villages. Harold built the golf first and then sold the homes around the golf course. The last course opened was Belle Glade, which was opened several years and several thousand new homes ago. The ratio of Championship golf courses to homes has been significantly diluted since then.

[rustyp]

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.



The they in this case is us.....aren't the flowers part of or maintenance charge? Not that greedy Developer.

If I recall from the resident college course The Developer is responsible for maintenance and landscaping in the business districts. That would include all the common areas around each town square and all commercial areas like shopping centers, medical facilities, Waterfront Hotel, etc. That's still a lot of flowers. Been a long time since I took the course - how about you ?

[vintageogauge]

They are nowhere close to being back on track, no less ahead of the game if you are someone who values Championship Golf as an important amenity.

They have started work on the Championship course.

[UpNorth]

They have started work on the Championship course.

Probably to boost the values of the houses being built with "golf course views". Who designs these layouts? Even the Lowlands executive course was designed to provide more lots with "golf course views". Boring course design for the sale of lots with "golf course views". Play 3 holes, then walk down to the next neighborhood. Play 3 more, then walk back to another neighborhood. Yes, things have changed, but still a great place to escape the snow and ice.

[tophcfa]

Probably to boost the values of the houses being built with "golf course views". Who designs these layouts? Even the Lowlands executive course was designed to provide more lots with "golf course views". Boring course design for the sale of lots with "golf course views". Play 3 holes, then walk down to the next neighborhood. Play 3 more, then walk back to another neighborhood. Yes, things have changed, but still a great place to escape the snow and ice.

Or they have started the course because they need it there to be a flood plain of last resort to handle the storm water management needs created by the new development.

[Bogie Shooter]

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.






If I recall from the resident college course The Developer is responsible for maintenance and landscaping in the business districts. That would include all the common areas around each town square and all commercial areas like shopping centers, medical facilities, Waterfront Hotel, etc. That's still a lot of flowers. Been a long time since I took the course - how about you ?

Now you specify which beds, makes a difference. Your sarcasm was not necessary...……………..\\


See post #26

[Bogie Shooter]

Probably to boost the values of the houses being built with "golf course views". Who designs these layouts? Even the Lowlands executive course was designed to provide more lots with "golf course views". Boring course design for the sale of lots with "golf course views". Play 3 holes, then walk down to the next neighborhood. Play 3 more, then walk back to another neighborhood. Yes, things have changed, but still a great place to escape the snow and ice.

So, your option....don't go down there and play.

[vintageogauge]

Or they have started the course because they need it there to be a flood plain of last resort to handle the storm water management needs created by the new development.

It's on the other side of the Turnpike where there is no new development yet. Why are you being so negative? The south is the new Villages, lots of experiments going on down here, get used to it. We that live here are quite content and we don't live in the past reminiscing about how great Katie Belles use to be. If you don't care for the southern villages stay up north, no one is forcing it on you.

[rustyp]

Now you specify which beds, makes a difference. Your sarcasm was not necessary...……………..\\


See post #26

I wrote my post while post #26 was being posted thus I did not see it before I pushed the button. If you read post #26 I believe we are in agreement with each other. HH ?

[vintageogauge]

Probably to boost the values of the houses being built with "golf course views". Who designs these layouts? Even the Lowlands executive course was designed to provide more lots with "golf course views". Boring course design for the sale of lots with "golf course views". Play 3 holes, then walk down to the next neighborhood. Play 3 more, then walk back to another neighborhood. Yes, things have changed, but still a great place to escape the snow and ice.

When they were building around Lake Sumter you paid a premium for a "Peek-a-boo" golf course lot, meaning if you went outside and looked between two homes across the street you could see a little bit of fairway. When they started McClure full golf front lots were a steal, when they started Fenney private waterfront lots were under $50,000.00, stucco designer homes on water with pools were available for under $400,000.00. Everytime they start a new village there are bargains to be had. The executive courses down here are far from boring, you either see the glass half full or half empty.

[Goldwingnut]

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.





If I recall from the resident college course The Developer is responsible for maintenance and landscaping in the business districts. That would include all the common areas around each town square and all commercial areas like shopping centers, medical facilities, Waterfront Hotel, etc. That's still a lot of flowers. Been a long time since I took the course - how about you ?

The commercial CDDs have a slightly different structure for their maintenance assessments. SL is basically self sufficient in this respect while Brownwood is very similar to the residential CDDs and is the only one with a seat at the PWAC. The Brownwood commercial properties proper are maintained by the BWCDD but the common areas (the open areas, MMP, the golf cart traffic circle, etc.) fall under the project wide agreement. The other commercial properties like 466 I'm unsure of. The all make use of the volume buying power and clout by going through the District Purchasing Department.

In a given location such as around one of the neighborhood rec areas/pool/mail station you can easily have portions of the landscaping maintenance being paid for by the individual CDD, the amenity fund, and the Project Wide fund. Fortunately for residents this is all basically transparent to our enjoyment and is more of a back office exercise in cost allocations.

I go through the budgets for CDD10, PWF, and amenity funds every year with a fine tooth comb. The process we have is complex but it works very for our situation.

[jcvdd1]

The commercial CDDs have a slightly different structure for their maintenance assessments. SL is basically self sufficient in this respect while Brownwood is very similar to the residential CDDs and is the only one with a seat at the PWAC. The Brownwood commercial properties proper are maintained by the BWCDD but the common areas (the open areas, MMP, the golf cart traffic circle, etc.) fall under the project wide agreement. The other commercial properties like 466 I'm unsure of. The all make use of the volume buying power and clout by going through the District Purchasing Department.

In a given location such as around one of the neighborhood rec areas/pool/mail station you can easily have portions of the landscaping maintenance being paid for by the individual CDD, the amenity fund, and the Project Wide fund. Fortunately for residents this is all basically transparent to our enjoyment and is more of a back office exercise in cost allocations.

I go through the budgets for CDD10, PWF, and amenity funds every year with a fine tooth comb. The process we have is complex but it works very for our situation.

SUGGESTION GOLDWINGNUT _

Why don't you run for a political office here in The Villages???
I'd definitely vote for you !
:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[tophcfa]

It's on the other side of the Turnpike where there is no new development yet. Why are you being so negative? The south is the new Villages, lots of experiments going on down here, get used to it. We that live here are quite content and we don't live in the past reminiscing about how great Katie Belles use to be. If you don't care for the southern villages stay up north, no one is forcing it on you.

I agree, no one is forcing me to go to the Villages south. Unfortunately, the lack of Championship Golf south of 44 is forcing the southern villagers to go north to golf, making the courses more crowded and more difficult to get good t times during the busy season.

[Singerlady]

No need to wonder about frustration..............I've told to a lot of Southerners and no one of them are in a hurry for the connection. Not One.


I assume there might be a few wondering when.


But everyone I've talked to are very happy and did not "fall for the sales hype".


It's the Northerners trying to create frustration. Like most things in TV, a few pot-stir'rs try to create negativity.


:ho:

Hey! I’m a ‘Northerner’! How am I / are we trying to create frustration? We bought in July 2018. I just didn’t fall for their time line. Hopethe project is for finished soon for those that want to go north.

[Marathon Man]

Or they have started the course because they need it there to be a flood plain of last resort to handle the storm water management needs created by the new development.

All courses are flood plain. This is part of the engineering. None of them are added 'as a last resort'. I thought everyone who has lived here for any length of time knows this. Remeber Irma?

[bennete2]

What happened to your weekly and biweekly report of our area, i looked forward to you letting us know what was happening in The Villages,

[Klemetsenrr]

Things today are NOT the same since Gary Morse left us. He built ALL the connections, GC paths, rec centers, etc... before the first home was constructed. You knew what was there before you purchased.
Today, the family is ONLY interested in building and selling homes.

The Villages is not what is used to be and I for one see the downfall beginning...

Couldn't agree with you more, TommyT. I've been watching the business model for TV for over 20 years and also have noticed a fundamental change in the focus for this current generation since Gary left. While my career was spent making money for large organizations, which I strongly support, Gary's business model worked well for buyers AND made money.

We will know more in time; and I may have to remove my foot from my mouth:icon_wink::however, the current business plan is turning out not to be what I'd prefer.

[Cranford61]

In the meantime, keep car pooling to the real Villages.

[Klemetsenrr]

Since Gary ? How about when Harold left us. Just today we were reminded of Budweiser Clydesdales and real snow making machines at the Christmas Tree lightings when Harold was alive. They were in front of Katie Bells - remember that exclusive for members only club we considered our flagship. Free golf and Katie Bell's was the sales pitch. The early lifestyle visits included Katie Bell's dollars. People on here think we are so negative but they forget most are new here and have not experienced the changes. In 2003 when Harold passed population was around 30000. Today TV is approaching 140000. Like the old story goes I didn't know we were poor growing up until the government told me. Thus many of you are comparing the past to your hometowns, not here because you were not here. Harold was about the people. Sure he was a businessman and was in it to make money. However he loved the people, He did not live as an isolationist. Harold donated 1 million dollars of his own money to the then Villages corporation to build Spanish Springs Town Square because the corporation did not have the funds to do it as he saw what it deserved to be.

We are on the third generation of a family business. There's an old adage about that . Now I still haven't found a better place but seen many changes and each change seems to be more business oriented. Slogan was live like a millionaire on a retirement budget. I see signs of the class system raising it's ugly head. That won't be good for a "Friendly Hometown".

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.

Again please don't tell me you are free to leave. I am fully aware of that and will when my barometer pegs. However I try to point out to newbies there is a history here and you should make a little effort to understand this new place you now call home.
Things never get better if people don't speak up. Glad you said what you felt - and in a respectful manner.

[dennisgavin]

I am amazed at two things.
1. How quickly tings are moving.
2. How some seem to always be negative.
I think they don't want golf carts in the way as they build their way to 44. You know there will be a lot of us who will want to take that ride "just to see". With dump trucks zooming all over the place the last thing needed is a bunch of golf carts getting in the way.
I bought here in MAy of 2016 and am still loving it. No complaints from me.

[Cranford61]

Nice perspective

[CWGUY]

Probably to boost the values of the houses being built with "golf course views". Who designs these layouts? Even the Lowlands executive course was designed to provide more lots with "golf course views". Boring course design for the sale of lots with "golf course views". Play 3 holes, then walk down to the next neighborhood. Play 3 more, then walk back to another neighborhood. Yes, things have changed, but still a great place to escape the snow and ice.


:popcorn: Actually it's a GREAT PLACE TO LIVE..... even with having to put up with people who use it as a golf or vacation destination. :ho:

Note to self: Add golf course design to list of things people want to be in charge of. Boy the list gets longer everyday. :rolleyes:

[graciegirl]

I think that their were times that the developer may have financially overextended in the past. I have no proof of it, but it stands to reason. It may have been the time right before the "group" sued them for what I think was exaggerated reasons.

The developers have built this place and extended this place, using their own money, time and time again, risking their own money to build and buy and pay bills and they have done it in such a way that government money was not asked for, or needed. I consider it a monument to Free Enterprise.

My bet is on their continued good judgement and wise planning. They do NOT seek fanfair, any of them. They will be seen in their selling videos and viewed at "The State of the Villages" at the Sharon if you get up early enough to get in line for the free tickets.

They are good business people as they keep their cards close to their vests and don't broadcast their plans much. They have had loyal employees and builders and staff that has been with them for a long time. Some of that will change and my hope is that they will continue to find dedicated people .

They are very, very, very, wealthy and have always been very hardworking and smart and must see a dream of a successful large area populated by senior citizens, well run and beautiful that the world has never seen before, and all built by a private business. They must enjoy seeing the economic success of the surrounding counties and the businesses that are attracted and enjoyed by the residents both in and out of The Villages.

My money is on them continuing to be successful and for others following us to continue enjoying this amazing place.

NO. I don't get paid.

[John_W]

One thing that is nice about the newer areas is they are closer to Leesburg. I live near the new Trailwinds plaza where Lowes, Aldis, ABC Liquor and a new Publix is under construction. From my house to what is left of Lake Square Mall is 17 miles. Not that far really, maybe half an hour with the traffic.

Yesterday I took a bunch of golf stuff I wasn't using, really taking up space in the garage, to Play It Again Sports and got $245. Within a 1/2 mile of that store is Olive Garden, Red Lobster and Outback where we ate. From the new area it's probably not much more than going up to Lady Lake area. Something you might think about. They also have a Kohls, Chilis, and all the other usual chains.

[merrymini]

When the connection happens, it happens. I do not understand that the “northerners” are creating issues concerning connectivity. There would have to be a good reason to go south. Whenever I have gone, it is mostly to look around at the building and not much more. Most shopping is in the northern portions because that is where most of the people are. I am happy to see, after five years, that Brownwood is finally filling out but it has been a long time coming. If you need to go somewhere, take the car.

[justjim]

Yes, The Villages has grown quit a bit in the last 16 years since HS left us, but don't think this wasn't all a part of his plans. Watch this video The Building of Brownwood - Exciting Construction Plans - YouTube (https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=120) and they talk about the Brownwood location being known before any home was build south of CR466 (not CR466A). This significantly predates HS's death and without a doubt is clear that the current growth was greatly influenced by both HS and GM. They well knew in the late 90's that The Villages would grow beyond SR44 and farther south as we see it today. You don't invest $100+ million in a premier commercial district only to put it on the fringe of your target customers, you put it right smack in the middle of your customer base (as we are now seeing this to be true). If SR44 was to be the end of The Villages then Brownwood would have been built were the Truman and Roosevelt golf courses are located today.

Unfortunately, most good things usually come to an end, normally the demise is due to abuse. Katie Belles is a prime example of this, it wasn't a private and free attraction, it was a business and businesses have to make money to continue to be viable. The few times I went there for dinner there were a large number of people camping out there having an ice tea or water and taking up a table for hours on end, not spending any money and enjoying the free entertainment that was anything but free to the proprietor. They can't make money with this type of entitled abuse and they can't stay in business. Hence the change in business model. The country clubs suffer for the same syndrome, one has already closed its doors for the same reason, how many more will follow?

By the way, in the business world, it's called a $1 million investment not a donation.

They spent, as you said, millions developing Brownwood and as I watched it’s development it didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure plans were already made to go south of State Route 44. We are in our 13th year of living in The Villages. It’s been a great active lifestyle living here. Change is inevitable and as we age there is a natural tendency to want “things” to stay the same. After 13 years, I say everything is still all right with The Villages. In my opinion The Villages is better today than it was when we first landed here. “In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong”. Anonymous

[Bogie Shooter]

I agree, no one is forcing me to go to the Villages south. Unfortunately, the lack of Championship Golf south of 44 is forcing the southern villagers to go north to golf, making the courses more crowded and more difficult to get good t times during the busy season.

This is hogwash. I just looked at the Thursday open tee times...just between 8:00AM & noon....45+. There were that may more at other times during the day.
Don't know what a good tee time really means.

[Klemetsenrr]

We live in McClure and can't wait for golf cart connectivity. We want to be able to head to the centers and businesses via golf cart and be able to meet people that don't live on the island. It would feel more inclusive also.

As far as timing goes: If at all possible, I believe it's very important that organizations hold true to their word in order to maintain a foundation of trust. If you communicate a plan then make it happen.

[Imagine701]

How about Championship Golf Courses? Are they going to build the same amount south of 44 that are north of 44? Don't hold your breath for that one, you'll be waiting weeks to get tee times and what's next? Charging for executive courses? Oh and the new rates should be coming out soon for Jan-April.

[TOMMY D]

In reference to comments about connection from south to north here. Promises are never written in stone. Also I'm realizing that once the south are able to go north, Brownwood will become another Sumter and with all the building here taking up parking where is everyone going to park. Are the Villages becoming more about making money and our happiness a second thought.

[CWGUY]

How about Championship Golf Courses? Are they going to build the same amount south of 44 that are north of 44? Don't hold your breath for that one, you'll be waiting weeks to get tee times and what's next? Charging for executive courses? Oh and the new rates should be coming out soon for Jan-April.

:oops: Posted yesterday! Post #4 https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/golf-villages-216/golf-rates-2020-a-300390/

[justjim]

How about Championship Golf Courses? Are they going to build the same amount south of 44 that are north of 44? Don't hold your breath for that one, you'll be waiting weeks to get tee times and what's next? Charging for executive courses? Oh and the new rates should be coming out soon for Jan-April.

Nope, there likely won’t be that many Championship Courses south of 44. Why? Statistics show fewer golfers now and in future years. Public and private courses across the country have been closing in alarming numbers. USGA has been promoting playing nine holes and shorter yardage golf courses.

[JSR22]

How about Championship Golf Courses? Are they going to build the same amount south of 44 that are north of 44? Don't hold your breath for that one, you'll be waiting weeks to get tee times and what's next? Charging for executive courses? Oh and the new rates should be coming out soon for Jan-April.

The 2020 green fees have been posted.

[CWGUY]

Nope, there likely won’t be that many Championship Courses south of 44. Why? Statistics show fewer golfers now and in future years. Public and private courses across the country have been closing in alarming numbers. USGA has been promoting playing nine holes and shorter yardage golf courses.

:ohdear: How dare you post facts that go against what the haters want. :icon_wink:

[npwalters]

A Championship golf courses are NOT an amenity, they are a private business. They receive $0 from the amenity budget, they have to survive on their customer base alone. If you look at the numbers, it takes about 6500-7200 homes to support a championship course here in The Villages. Less than 3000 homes have been sold south of SR44. A championship course cannot survive without an adequate customer base, which still doesn't exist.

I think you are parsing words. Many folks in TV buy or bought homes with the expectation (expressed in the sales pitch) of executive golf courses and a readily accessible championship course. It may not be technically an amenity but it is an expected feature included in the sales pitch.

[Marathon Man]

I think you are parsing words. Many folks in TV buy or bought homes with the expectation (expressed in the sales pitch) of executive golf courses and a readily accessible championship course. It may not be technically an amenity but it is an expected feature included in the sales pitch.

And that is what everyone has. Even those south of 44. Short drive to the courses and free golf cart. What's not to like.

[MSchad]

And that is what everyone has. Even those south of 44. Short drive to the courses and free golf cart. What's not to like.

Exactly!! We make that ‘short’ drive to a different CC course each week. 15-30 minutes to any course. Love having the selection. Also, I doubt that many from around Spanish Springs venture down to Belle Glade or Evans Prairie or visa versa in their golf carts either. Cars just make more since if you want to take advantage of it all.

[mjdollard]

Goldwing,
I've liked your fly overs (where are they?) and on the pickleball issue I think you have a very valid point.

That said I am comfortable saying you are not one to make loony comments but I have to question this one. First, the Publix in Trailwinds had a sign up "Coming Soon" for over a year before they started doing anything. Magnolia Plaza is fast tracked in comparison. Second, the Turnpike bridge is held up by FDOT foot dragging. The bridge is built and waiting to be placed - I know that from your videos - but they cannot get the permits to put it there. The word is that there will be no traffic stoppages until after snowbird season. Since the bridge is completed and sitting there what other explanation is there?

As to Gracie's comments, the tax issue and the developer are not related, I don't care what anyone says. The biggest driver behind the tax hike is road construction and that is solely the county's issue. 468 (aka Warm Springs) was over capacity and breaking up long before Fenney started, I was down there in 2010 during a LSP and remember that the road was in bad shape (I was a town manager in NY at the time and paid attention to those things). The county DPW manager and the budget director apparently never went out doors. And - before you blame TV for the road issue and being in bed with the county remember that TV did not start Fenney, another developer did

[graciegirl]

I think you are parsing words. Many folks in TV buy or bought homes with the expectation (expressed in the sales pitch) of executive golf courses and a readily accessible championship course. It may not be technically an amenity but it is an expected feature included in the sales pitch.

Keeping in touch and having the amenities that are wanted by the population of The Villages is a very smart thing to do. I grow tired of this constant looking for things that are negative about The Villages. No one strong arms anyone to live here. The only advertising I know about are the videos which must be requested. The sales rep do not pressure. There are people lined up to buy here and that has been going on for years. If someone thinks they are getting short changed, than look for something better, because this place is selling well, new and used.

P.S. I am not a realtor or a sales rep and although I would like to have met them, I have never met a Morse family member except for the half brother who lives in our neighborhood and that was when he came to one of the early parties and didn't interact much with anybody, certainly not with me.

I think a lot of the negativity is from people who don't live here and can't live here now because of their age or the fact they must still be employed. I think there is a lot of jealousy of the success of The Morse family.

Plus, there is no lack of executive or championship courses right now.

[Bogie Shooter]

How about Championship Golf Courses? Are they going to build the same amount south of 44 that are north of 44? Don't hold your breath for that one, you'll be waiting weeks to get tee times and what's next? Charging for executive courses? Oh and the new rates should be coming out soon for Jan-April.

Are you smoking that funny rope?

[renrod]

My biggest complaint is the work being done on Warm Springs Ave, aka 468. The changes are being done piece meal instead of doing it all at one time. It took a long time to get the intersection of 501 and Warms Springs completed. The work on widening the road to 4 lanes between 501 and 301 is still going on and it has been over a year. The new roundabout on the east side of the turnpike created another bottleneck and congestion, and now after months of that mess and it is completed, then they create another choke point by digging up the road for a golf cart tunnel. The slow pace of construction is uncalled for, they're digging in sand not blasing granite to build the roadway. I know it isn't all contractor's fault as the work is being done by the state, county, and whoever, but you would think some of these well paid decision makers would use a bit of common sense. As you can tell I'm getting pretty tired of detours and sand and debris on the roadway.
I drive Warm Spring almost every day. I am amazed at how well the road work went, keeping the road open while everything got done. If you don’t like how it’s done then you could be part of the solution, use 301 even if it’s out of the way.

[npwalters]

And that is what everyone has. Even those south of 44. Short drive to the courses and free golf cart. What's not to like.

Well I have 4 championship courses within a 15 minute golf cart ride from me. No need to get in my car. It will be similar south of 44 eventually.

The main point of my post was to a previous posters point that a championship course is not an amenity. It is obviously an expectation and that is why the "free golf cart" is a perk offered to those who must drive.

[vintageogauge]

I think you are parsing words. Many folks in TV buy or bought homes with the expectation (expressed in the sales pitch) of executive golf courses and a readily accessible championship course. It may not be technically an amenity but it is an expected feature included in the sales pitch.

That is not true, a champion ship course was never part of the sales promotion when we bought down here in 2017. Everything that they told us was going to happen has happened. We were never told anything about a championship course or another square, we were told about the multiple executive courses, putt & play, pitch & putt, etc., etc., all of which are up and running. Where did you come up with this stuff.

[asianthree]

If the cart path were completed in January, think about the drive with no houses, or businesses. The only lights are the path itself. Not a drive I want to take.

We are still thinking of moving for the fourth time to the new area. Where you can walk, run, bike without cars.

Our 30yos grew up playing at the CC, now chose a more active lifestyle. Golf is low on their list.
Up north 6 courses that 10 years ago you were wait listed for membership have now been sold and homes or retail took their place. We first came to TV in 07, bought in 2010, we have priority golf, and have never had issues with tee times, unless it was for multiple foursomes. We play Championship 4 days a week, and executive the other days. But down the road I see that ratio changing, not due to rise in rates, but the ability to hit the ball a respectable distance.

[npwalters]

That is not true, a champion ship course was never part of the sales promotion when we bought down here in 2017. Everything that they told us was going to happen has happened. We were never told anything about a championship course or another square, we were told about the multiple executive courses, putt & play, pitch & putt, etc., etc., all of which are up and running. Where did you come up with this stuff.

I took the Fenny trolly tour about a 18 months ago just to look around. It was definitely mentioned then. That's where I "come up with this stuff". I never said anything about a square.

[vintageogauge]

I took the Fenny trolly tour about a 18 months ago just to look around. It was definitely mentioned then. That's where I "come up with this stuff". I never said anything about a square.

I was going back 2-1/2 years 18 months ago it may have been in the planning stage as they are in fact in the process of building the championship course. So you were not lied to.

[waterlily]

I understand the courses are private businesses, but I consider the availability of Championship golf to be one of the most important draws of moving to the Villages. Harold built the golf first and then sold the homes around the golf course. The last course opened was Belle Glade, which was opened several years and several thousand new homes ago. The ratio of Championship golf courses to homes has been significantly diluted since then.

Vmail - Belle Glade Golf Course - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgUO-yppUUk)

The announcement 5 Years ago that Belle Glade would be the FINAL Championship golf course in TV. The couldnt say FINAL enough times.

[waterlily]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;1698821]I don't agree with that. The scale of building has increased enormously but building and selling houses is what the Morse family does. Let's not start denigrating people for profitable business. Our nations economic health is based on that, not someone spending government money. (that ultimately comes out of all of our pockets)

I don't think the Morse family is without fault but neither are they malicious scammers. They years ago passed the standard of great wealth and own anything they might aspire to. They don't need more money. I just hope they are still all working together. Last years State of The Villages presentation at the Sharon didn't seem like all three were still as involved as they once were. Granted, even the Morse family keeps getting older, just like we do, and people have a right to retire.

Back to the original topic of connectivity. Gracie has it right. The Morse family is in the business of selling houses. It is interesting to watch where they are building houses. It seems that most are being built in less desirable locations, along the turnpike, etc. I believe that they are building and selling the homes to gain connectivity and while discounting, use most of the less desirable property. Save the higher markup areas to build after the bridges are up and open. If they build faster, and inventory sits unsold, its bad business. Why would you build faster than they are selling? Who wants to buy a "new" home that has sat vacant for years?

I wish the progress was faster, but I'm enjoying watching the process play out.

[Michael Charles]

Well, we also aren't overly concerned about when any connectivity happens or commercial locations are built. From our home here in McClure it's actually a shorter trip time wise to the Publix plaza at Lake Deaton than it was from where we used to live in St. James to the Colony plaza. As far as dining out is concerned we just simply drive to whichever restaurant that we want, usually no more than a 25 minute car ride. I don't really see us going for a ride on the golf cart up to LSL or SS. In decent weather perhaps occasionally up to Brownwood. We didn't believe our salesperson about any time line of the connectivity nor the supposed commercial locations. We first bought in St. James March of 2012, there was barely any business on 466A other than the Winn Dixie and Colony plaza areas, no Lowe's or ABC, or Wendy's, No Villages named Pinellas, no Hillsborough, no Collier & Pine Ridge, no Wal-Mart neighborhood store. On 44 there was just the Chevy dealer the old Speckled Butterbean and Sparrs. In under 8 years the expansion has been massive down south. So, just wait & enjoy your new homes and please learn how to properly navigate the roundabouts and please observe the speed limits here. Morse boulevard and Buena Vista boulevard are not the Autobahn!

[Goldwingnut]

Goldwing,
I've liked your fly overs (where are they?) and on the pickleball issue I think you have a very valid point.

That said I am comfortable saying you are not one to make loony comments but I have to question this one. First, the Publix in Trailwinds had a sign up "Coming Soon" for over a year before they started doing anything. Magnolia Plaza is fast tracked in comparison. Second, the Turnpike bridge is held up by FDOT foot dragging. The bridge is built and waiting to be placed - I know that from your videos - but they cannot get the permits to put it there. The word is that there will be no traffic stoppages until after snowbird season. Since the bridge is completed and sitting there what other explanation is there?

As to Gracie's comments, the tax issue and the developer are not related, I don't care what anyone says. The biggest driver behind the tax hike is road construction and that is solely the county's issue. 468 (aka Warm Springs) was over capacity and breaking up long before Fenney started, I was down there in 2010 during a LSP and remember that the road was in bad shape (I was a town manager in NY at the time and paid attention to those things). The county DPW manager and the budget director apparently never went out doors. And - before you blame TV for the road issue and being in bed with the county remember that TV did not start Fenney, another developer did

Thanks, I do try not to make "loony comments", there are more than enough people out there doing that to entertain all of us for may years to come. My comments are, as in the case of the OP, based on observations, logic, and careful reasoning and not meant to be bashing (unjustly) the developer or anyone else.

In the case of 466A Publix and Magnolia Plaza I don't believe my comment to be loony in any way. Regardless of signage my comment was based on the observed actual construction work, MP work was started about 6 months ago and they've been moving dirt for an uncharacteristically long time whereas the Publix on 466A the digging started only about 2 months ago and walls are already going up. Both locations started from the same point of Stage 1 initial clearing and preparations being completed.

I'm aware of the Turnpike bridge and FTE's (FTE is the Florida Turnpike Enterprise, they have control over the turnpike operations and not FDOT) policy about lane closures. I worked on the Turnpike and with the FTE for nearly 7 years doing the toll system replacement and security upgrades in every toll plaza from CR470 to Homestead, I know the roads, facilities, and people on the Turnpike very well. I was the one who made the post about the high season lane closures a few weeks ago that you are referencing.

With my drone I get a unique view of what is going on, much of which I haven't previously shared with the public by request of TV management. What appears to be the case, as I previously stated, is that there are at least 6 distinct areas being worked over a much larger geographical area than has previously been undertaken. This appears to be pushing the limits of the local construction resources and they are unable to keep the robust pace we have previously seen. The area between SR44 and the Turnpike, in my opinion, does not appear to be progressing as quickly as anticipated. Without this area being completed to the point of being able to at least sell lots and spec homes connectivity is not going to be a reality due to the construction hazards. This has also reflected in the access control of the north end of Marsh Bend Trail, it has only recently been allowed up to the DeLuna area that just went up for sale. It is still not allowed up to the Water Lilly rec center and bridge area. The area on the north side of Turnpike has a lot more to go.

I agree with you that the taxes and road construction on 468 are fully the county's responsibility/fault and not the developer, I've never put that on the developer because it simply isn't their issue. When the county approves any new development, they are responsible for upgrading their infrastructure to support what they've approved, that's the purpose of the impact fees, to cover these costs. Sumter County has failed to adequately manage these responsibilities and has dumped the cost of their incompetence on the tax payers. There was no secret any of this growth was coming, they approved all of this growth and they are required to do a 5 year financial projection every year to prevent the huge tax increases we've just experienced. They failed to act responsibly and wanted to continue their string of "no tax increase" propaganda, it's now bit them in the butt.

My OP was to point out the new schedule slippages that have been occurring recently on this critical piece of future infrastructure and lack of open communications of the changing expectations for it.

Wildwood Springs (Fenney & DeSoto) sat dormant for early a decade with zero progress until The Villages stepped in, only then did the first shovelful of dirt get moved. The same has held true for Cresswood, Landstone Communities, West Lakes, Southern Oaks, Renaissance Trails, and Secret Promise developments. All have been sitting dormant since before the bust of 2008 but are now being brought back to life as a part of The Villages developments.

[twoplanekid]

Thanks, I do try not to make "loony comments", there are more than enough people out there doing that to entertain all of us for may years to come. My comments are, as in the case of the OP, based on observations, logic, and careful reasoning and not meant to be bashing (unjustly) the developer or anyone else.

In the case of 466A Publix and Magnolia Plaza I don't believe my comment to be loony in any way. Regardless of signage my comment was based on the observed actual construction work, MP work was started about 6 months ago and they've been moving dirt for an uncharacteristically long time whereas the Publix on 466A the digging started only about 2 months ago and walls are already going up. Both locations started from the same point of Stage 1 initial clearing and preparations being completed.

I'm aware of the Turnpike bridge and FTE's (FTE is the Florida Turnpike Enterprise, they have control over the turnpike operations and not FDOT) policy about lane closures. I worked on the Turnpike and with the FTE for nearly 7 years doing the toll system replacement and security upgrades in every toll plaza from CR470 to Homestead, I know the roads, facilities, and people on the Turnpike very well. I was the one who made the post about the high season lane closures a few weeks ago that you are referencing.

With my drone I get a unique view of what is going on, much of which I haven't previously shared with the public by request of TV management. What appears to be the case, as I previously stated, is that there are at least 6 distinct areas being worked over a much larger geographical area than has previously been undertaken. This appears to be pushing the limits of the local construction resources and they are unable to keep the robust pace we have previously seen. The area between SR44 and the Turnpike, in my opinion, does not appear to be progressing as quickly as anticipated. Without this area being completed to the point of being able to at least sell lots and spec homes connectivity is not going to be a reality due to the construction hazards. This has also reflected in the access control of the north end of Marsh Bend Trail, it has only recently been allowed up to the DeLuna area that just went up for sale. It is still not allowed up to the Water Lilly rec center and bridge area. The area on the north side of Turnpike has a lot more to go.

I agree with you that the taxes and road construction on 468 are fully the county's responsibility/fault and not the developer, I've never put that on the developer because it simply isn't their issue. When the county approves any new development, they are responsible for upgrading their infrastructure to support what they've approved, that's the purpose of the impact fees, to cover these costs. Sumter County has failed to adequately manage these responsibilities and has dumped the cost of their incompetence on the tax payers. There was no secret any of this growth was coming, they approved all of this growth and they are required to do a 5 year financial projection every year to prevent the huge tax increases we've just experienced. They failed to act responsibly and wanted to continue their string of "no tax increase" propaganda, it's now bit them in the butt.

My OP was to point out the new schedule slippages that have been occurring recently on this critical piece of future infrastructure and lack of open communications of the changing expectations for it.

Wildwood Springs (Fenney & DeSoto) sat dormant for early a decade with zero progress until The Villages stepped in, only then did the first shovelful of dirt get moved. The same has held true for Cresswood, Landstone Communities, West Lakes, Southern Oaks, Renaissance Trails, and Secret Promise developments. All have been sitting dormant since before the bust of 2008 but are now being brought back to life as a part of The Villages developments.

Look at my pictures taken from the Cub over the last few months to confirm Dons underlined comments.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/more-aerial-shots-tv-south-cub-284356/

[graciegirl]

///

[graciegirl]

Thanks, I do try not to make "loony comments", there are more than enough people out there doing that to entertain all of us for may years to come. My comments are, as in the case of the OP, based on observations, logic, and careful reasoning and not meant to be bashing (unjustly) the developer or anyone else.

In the case of 466A Publix and Magnolia Plaza I don't believe my comment to be loony in any way. Regardless of signage my comment was based on the observed actual construction work, MP work was started about 6 months ago and they've been moving dirt for an uncharacteristically long time whereas the Publix on 466A the digging started only about 2 months ago and walls are already going up. Both locations started from the same point of Stage 1 initial clearing and preparations being completed.

I'm aware of the Turnpike bridge and FTE's (FTE is the Florida Turnpike Enterprise, they have control over the turnpike operations and not FDOT) policy about lane closures. I worked on the Turnpike and with the FTE for nearly 7 years doing the toll system replacement and security upgrades in every toll plaza from CR470 to Homestead, I know the roads, facilities, and people on the Turnpike very well. I was the one who made the post about the high season lane closures a few weeks ago that you are referencing.

With my drone I get a unique view of what is going on, much of which I haven't previously shared with the public by request of TV management. What appears to be the case, as I previously stated, is that there are at least 6 distinct areas being worked over a much larger geographical area than has previously been undertaken. This appears to be pushing the limits of the local construction resources and they are unable to keep the robust pace we have previously seen. The area between SR44 and the Turnpike, in my opinion, does not appear to be progressing as quickly as anticipated. Without this area being completed to the point of being able to at least sell lots and spec homes connectivity is not going to be a reality due to the construction hazards. This has also reflected in the access control of the north end of Marsh Bend Trail, it has only recently been allowed up to the DeLuna area that just went up for sale. It is still not allowed up to the Water Lilly rec center and bridge area. The area on the north side of Turnpike has a lot more to go.

I agree with you that the taxes and road construction on 468 are fully the county's responsibility/fault and not the developer, I've never put that on the developer because it simply isn't their issue. When the county approves any new development, they are responsible for upgrading their infrastructure to support what they've approved, that's the purpose of the impact fees, to cover these costs. Sumter County has failed to adequately manage these responsibilities and has dumped the cost of their incompetence on the tax payers. There was no secret any of this growth was coming, they approved all of this growth and they are required to do a 5 year financial projection every year to prevent the huge tax increases we've just experienced. They failed to act responsibly and wanted to continue their string of "no tax increase" propaganda, it's now bit them in the butt.

My OP was to point out the new schedule slippages that have been occurring recently on this critical piece of future infrastructure and lack of open communications of the changing expectations for it.

Wildwood Springs (Fenney & DeSoto) sat dormant for early a decade with zero progress until The Villages stepped in, only then did the first shovelful of dirt get moved. The same has held true for Cresswood, Landstone Communities, West Lakes, Southern Oaks, Renaissance Trails, and Secret Promise developments. All have been sitting dormant since before the bust of 2008 but are now being brought back to life as a part of The Villages developments.

I should have read this post first. I am so glad that your wisdom is here for us and I so appreciate your insight.

[Dond1959]

Moved into DeSoto in February and really don’t care about connectivity. It is easier for me to drive to championship courses and we have 5 nice executive courses I can play down here. I also get free carts at championship courses which is nice and most courses are within a 30 minute drive.

I ride my bike by Magnolia Plaza 3 times a week and also drive by their daily. It truly looks like very little has been done lately. They advertised completion by fall 2020 when we were looking down south and that probably has slipped. The Publix at Lake Deaton is close so no big deal for us.

I am more interested in getting the roads done, especially the 4 landing of Warm Springs. This is a county issue and seems to be taking forever. The mess at 301 and Warm Springs also seems to be moving slowly (again county issue). It will also be nice when Meggison road is extended to Warm Springs. That should cut down on the trip time to Brownwood by about 5 minutes.

I think Don has it right, they look way overextended trying to open several areas at once and slipping on some of the infrastructure areas. I think the builder has an incentive to get connectivity done as soon as possible because I believe once connectivity happens they can raise prices on homes. But maybe there are issues with the state on getting that bridge over the turnpike. It will all eventually happen and in 5 to 10 years we will be talking about points south of 470.

[Goldwingnut]

It will all eventually happen and in 5 to 10 years we will be talking about points south of 470.

Closer to 3 to 5 years to be south of SR470 based on what I am seeing...

[Altavia]

Given how fast the new buildings around Brownwood progressed, I wondered if there was a change in priority and commercial building resouces diverted to complete those buildings first.

Another factor could be construction is delayed until a minimum critical mass of tenants is confirmed.

[charmed59]

They may be waiting to get a commitment from a supermarket to anchor the shopping plaza. Though the Publix at Lake Deaton is now busy, when they first put it in you could go bowling in there. Another Publix in Magnolia Plaza would cannabalize some of that business. Perhaps they (and Winn Dixie) are waiting for more full time residents before committing to investing.

I’d wager the day they announce the grand opening date of a super market there the price of homes in the area will jump.

[dewilson58]

Moved into DeSoto in February and really don’t care about connectivity.





Very true for most of the "Southerners".



Just the Northerner Debbie Downers are trying to make an issue out of connectivity.

[Chi-Town]

Based on what I've observed in this thread and what I've heard from people north of 44 it seems that there will always be a disconnect from the north and the south even after all the connecting issues are resolved. Not that this is a terrible situation: it's fairly common in larger cities which we are becoming. We will all be Villagers in the end.

[dewilson58]

Based on what I've observed in this thread and what I've heard from people north of 44 it seems that there will always be a disconnect from the north and the south even after all the connecting issues are resolved. Not that this is a terrible situation: it's fairly common in larger cities which we are becoming. We will all be Villagers in the end.




Heading to Chicago today.


Stop #1, Uno's

[Chi-Town]

Heading to Chicago today.


Stop #1, Uno's

Stop #2, Due's 😉

[NJblue]

One is a cost of doing business the other is poor government planning. The developer didn't do it, the county government did it. I'm not taking sides with the developer, I'm pointing out the fault where it belongs. Do you honestly think another $1000 added to the price of a house would have deterred any sales over the last decade?

Yes, we all got screwed because some in county government wanted to put a feather in their own hats and say "look at us, no tax increase for 14 years", now we all see that there were short sighted fool that didn't bother to look at their 5 year forecasts that are required every year. Repaving of roads just snuck up on them and the development they approved had cost to the county they chose to ignore until it was too late.

I think we can agree that the county commissioners were ultimately to blame for the tax increase, but it is not all related to failing to look at 5 year plans. Public officials around the country routinely require businesses to pay for infrastructure improvements as a condition for granting approval for a development. Any county government worth a salt would never have granted the developer the rights to develop the area south of 44 without first getting an agreement from the developer to fund the infrastructure improvements that were required. That would have ultimately placed the cost of these improvements on those who benefit from them - those who are buying in the new areas.

[villages07]

I would imagine that scheduling and coordinating the bridge installations and connectivity over the Turnpike and State Road 44 require a lot more negotiating with state government officials than the local tunnels and bridges built in the past. Perhaps some of these approvals are slowing down the process?


The good news is we know it will happen...it's not an empty promise by a shady developer. The Villages does what it says it will do. The only variable is when it will happen, influenced, perhaps, by factors not totally in their control.

[Bogie Shooter]

Don't confuse things with logic.:shocked:

[dewilson58]

I think we can agree that the county commissioners were ultimately to blame for the tax increase, but it is not all related to failing to look at 5 year plans. Public officials around the country routinely require businesses to pay for infrastructure improvements as a condition for granting approval for a development. Any county government worth a salt would never have granted the developer the rights to develop the area south of 44 without first getting an agreement from the developer to fund the infrastructure improvements that were required. That would have ultimately placed the cost of these improvements on those who benefit from them - those who are buying in the new areas.

No true on so many fronts.

[dsnrbec]

I’m not so anxious for the connectivity but must admit I miss going to the grocery store in my golf cart. I wonder what the delay is?

[NJblue]

No true on so many fronts.

Care to enumerate the many fallacies?

[Ashley from UK]

Very interesting thread. For my tuppence, I bought in Marsh Bend and being non-US resident the pull to TV was to be able to use golf carts and not a car, which will sit around for 6 months rotting. I am in no rush for the plaza yet (selfish) but that's only because our home isn't scheduled to be completed unti July 2020, and we will only be able to visit 3 weeks a year for the first few years until I retire so I guess I will just have to hire a car form MCO (any excuse for a mustang convertable..... I check the home sites every day and note that there don't appear to be many sales of the designer homes around my area, possibly due to the the run up to Christmas, and possibly due to the humongous asking price in excess of $300k for the lot. The taxes are massive as well, over $7k and I don't even get a vote.... hey ho, that's the joys of two homes in two continents I guess.

Keep the photos from the drone and plane coming. as it keeps the dream alive and real and is VERY much appreciated.

[vintageogauge]

Very interesting thread. For my tuppence, I bought in Marsh Bend and being non-US resident the pull to TV was to be able to use golf carts and not a car, which will sit around for 6 months rotting. I am in no rush for the plaza yet (selfish) but that's only because our home isn't scheduled to be completed unti July 2020, and we will only be able to visit 3 weeks a year for the first few years until I retire so I guess I will just have to hire a car form MCO (any excuse for a mustang convertable..... I check the home sites every day and note that there don't appear to be many sales of the designer homes around my area, possibly due to the the run up to Christmas, and possibly due to the humongous asking price in excess of $300k for the lot. The taxes are massive as well, over $7k and I don't even get a vote.... hey ho, that's the joys of two homes in two continents I guess.

Keep the photos from the drone and plane coming. as it keeps the dream alive and real and is VERY much appreciated.

The designers in Marsh Bend are selling very well, most are buying spec homes as the wait to build is extended , it's amazing to see how many people are living there in the designers, very few golf course lots left for sale and they are continuing to build further west toward 301. $7,000 per year for taxes is not a terribly high amount, many parts of this country are double and triple what they are here in TV for homes of similar value . If you're not coming back until July, you'll be shocked on how fast it is growing.

[KeithDB]

Our house looks over Warm Springs. We noticed a pattern of scores and scores of dump trucks. They all head West full, and return East empty. Today I followed them. They turn empty into the under construction Chitty-Chatty area, right around the new traffic circle there, and exit full heading West. They go to the intersection of Warm Springs and 301 and turn into a very large dirt area on the South side of Warm Springs there. I have no idea if any construction is happening there or if it is just a dirt fill. I don't know if it is even owned by The Villages.

On this run I could not help but to notice where no apparent construction was happening today. I could observe nothing going on in Magnolia Plaza area which will provide the only shopping opportunities South of 44 for all of us who are South of 44 and still have to go North of it. Construction for it has apparently stagnated.

[flyguy909]

On this run I could not help but to notice where no apparent construction was happening today. I could observe nothing going on in Magnolia Plaza area which will provide the only shopping opportunities South of 44 for all of us who are South of 44 and still have to go North of it. Construction for it has apparently stagnated.

What's even more exasperating is to see a new Publix springing up right next to Lowes on 466A... a quarter of a mile away from Win Dixie, while we wait and wait on Magnolia Plaza.

[vintageogauge]

Our house looks over Warm Springs. We noticed a pattern of scores and scores of dump trucks. They all head West full, and return East empty. Today I followed them. They turn empty into the under construction Chitty-Chatty area, right around the new traffic circle there, and exit full heading West. They go to the intersection of Warm Springs and 301 and turn into a very large dirt area on the South side of Warm Springs there. I have no idea if any construction is happening there or if it is just a dirt fill. I don't know if it is even owned by The Villages.

On this run I could not help but to notice where no apparent construction was happening today. I could observe nothing going on in Magnolia Plaza area which will provide the only shopping opportunities South of 44 for all of us who are South of 44 and still have to go North of it. Construction for it has apparently stagnated.

The site they are dumping on near 301 is going to have a few hundred homes built and it is part of The Villages. The Plaza might be waiting for inspections of some sort before they can go further, no one knows for sure but they will complete it eventually. Maybe they have to wait for the waste water treatment facility to be completed???

[CWGUY]

What's even more exasperating is to see a new Publix springing up right next to Lowes on 466A... a quarter of a mile away from Win Dixie, while we wait and wait on Magnolia Plaza.

:) Contact Us | Publix Super Markets (https://corporate.publix.com/contact)

[KeithDB]

What's even more exasperating is to see a new Publix springing up right next to Lowes on 466A... a quarter of a mile away from Win Dixie, while we wait and wait on Magnolia Plaza.

Yep, it started well after the project at Magnolia but already seems well ahead of it. It's crazy.

[Michael Charles]

The site they are dumping on near 301 is going to have a few hundred homes built and it is part of The Villages The area where all the trucks are delivering material next to the 301 & Warm Springs area will be an addition to the village of Fenney.