Foam filled blocks

[karostay]

Curious if anyone has had foam added to their block home ?
What were the results ? Seems logical adding extra R Value to exterior walls would make a noticeable change.
Is it worth the added cost ?

[Chatbrat]

Get a list of the contractors customers and ask them what changes they have actually seen, ask to see utility bills before & after

[stan the man]

Try google

[leftyf]

We had it done through Duke Energy. The biggest thing we saw was the reduction in noise. It did help on the electric bill too.

[karostay]

We had it done through Duke Energy. The biggest thing we saw was the reduction in noise. It did help on the electric bill too.

What about cooling and heating any noticeable changes
I would guess if your electric bill went down the answer would be yes

[villagetinker]

We have a 2013 vintage concrete block house, and it appears to be insulated well enough that I doubt there would be enough savings to offset the costs.

[karostay]

We have a 2013 vintage concrete block house, and it appears to be insulated well enough that I doubt there would be enough savings to offset the costs.

R value block home is 7 to 8 at best
2 to 2.5 for block and 5 for the foam board

[rjm1cc]

When I built a block home I had the option of adding foam. The designer I was working with said it would not pay for itself and I did not add it. The home seems to be more on the hot side in the FL winter and I run the A/C (don't know if the windows open) to cool it down some times. I do not see a problem in the summer. I think the answer depends on how well the home is constructed. You might not need it in a well constructed home.

[retiredguy123]

Curious if anyone has had foam added to their block home ?
What were the results ? Seems logical adding extra R Value to exterior walls would make a noticeable change.
Is it worth the added cost ?
I think that adding foam to a block wall would be a waste of money. First of all, many of the fillable cells will not get any foam because of the excess mortar, steel rebar, wire mesh, and other junk that will prevent access for the foam to get in. Masonry installers use a lot of mortar and much of it gets into the cell voids. The foam insulation value will be minimal. And, secondly, it will not provide any sound proofing because the sound will travel directly around the foam and through the concrete webbing.

[John_W]

If you have a masonry CYV, they are constructed using forms and are solid poured concrete. Our 2BR 2BA Durham average SECO electric is $75 to $85, the highest ever was $92. Also it's great for my surround sound, I play my 5.1 system very loud with my 75" TV and you can go out to the driveway and not hear anything.

[retiredguy123]

If you have a masonry CYV, they are constructed using forms and are solid poured concrete. Our 2BR 2BA Durham average SECO electric is $75 to $85, the highest ever was $92. Also it's great for my surround sound, I play my 5.1 system very loud with my 75" TV and you can go out to the driveway and not hear anything.
I agree. But, the sound proofing is achieved by a dense, air tight, solid concrete wall. That is totally different from a concrete block wall, that is not very dense, and has voids and air gaps, and cannot be made more dense by adding a lightweight foam.

[stadry]

interesting - always thought sound proofing's achieved by insulation - eg, interior walls w/offset 2x6 studs & f/g insulation, foam on walls, etc,,, NOT like noise level at lopez' legacy restaurant where 1 needs to sign,,, cmu walls lack voids facing source of sound,,, we blt some structures using insulated conc forms ( essentially foam cmu ),,, terrific payback in utility cost, strength, & low noise,,, they don't use icf's in tv & not aware there're any poured conc walls in anything down here,,, are there ? where ?

[sdeikenberry]

Your money is better spend increasing the R value of your attic insulation. And don't stop at the recommended R value of 38. Try to double that...you'll see decreased HVAC bills and be more comfortable. After moving here in '14, we upped our attic insulation to R60 after six months and noticed a marked difference in utility cost and comfort.

[biker1]

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[toeser]

I have been shocked by our 1996 cement-block 2,150 sq. ft. Villages home. It is the most energy efficient home I have ever owned. I consider our utility bills cheap.

The one huge improvement TV could have done, too late now, is to have insulated the water pipes. There is a huge energy waste pumping hot water through bare pipes in concrete. If I shut off the water to lather up in the shower, the water is cold again when I turn it back on and I have to heat it up all over again.

[Paula]

Curious if anyone has had foam added to their block home ?
What were the results ? Seems logical adding extra R Value to exterior walls would make a noticeable change.
Is it worth the added cost ?

When we built, our builder from up north told us to get all the insulation we could. Just as we need it for the cold weather, we also need it for the heat. Since we were building new, we had nothing for comparison, but we also realized the necessity for insulation. If you can afford it, do it.

[John_W]

...not aware there're any poured conc walls in anything down here,,, are there ? where ?

We bought a new masonry CYV in 2011. We wanted white cabinets and none the new villas on the market had them, there is no custom building of CYV's. We settled for a unit with brown cabinets and the cabinets refaced later. We were told at the time, no new villas were being built in our area because the forms were in use at Hacienda Hills (villa community by Morse Bridge). They said they had just one set of forms for each model and that when that was finished they would move back to our area. That's how I learned they were not block constructed. Then later I noticed the forms while playing golf I saw a villa community being built.

[retiredguy123]

A lot of houses were built with poured-in-place concrete walls over the last 10 years or longer. However, I understand that the builder has stopped using that method.

[PugMom]

I have been shocked by our 1996 cement-block 2,150 sq. ft. Villages home. It is the most energy efficient home I have ever owned. I consider our utility bills cheap.

The one huge improvement TV could have done, too late now, is to have insulated the water pipes. There is a huge energy waste pumping hot water through bare pipes in concrete. If I shut off the water to lather up in the shower, the water is cold again when I turn it back on and I have to heat it up all over again.yes, same. the h20 is always cold when left sitting a bit, but i think it has to do with the heater

[John_W]

A lot of houses were built with poured-in-place concrete walls over the last 10 years or longer. However, I understand that the builder has stopped using that method.

In 2011-2012 I only know that CYV's were built with forms. Around our villas is Odessa Circle, 80 designer homes that front on Southern Star executive. I walked the circle everyday for exercise, it's 7/10 of a mile around. I probably saw 60 of the 80 homes built, and everyone was concrete block. Usually you see an empty lot and then about 10 cars are parked on the street. They have about 20 workers laying block and entire designer home will go up in less than 2 days. There was maybe only about 5 that were framed built. Whether they still use forms for CYVs today, someone in the new areas could check that out.

[ton80]

I agree with VT and other posters that say the savings for adding foam to block wall cavities post construction would not justify the expense. Listed below are some generalities for Florida power consumption for a home with electric power Heating and air conditioning.
Power Consumption
Heating and air conditioning 37%
Appliances and electric lights 50%
Hot water 13%

Your annual electric bill would be about 1000$ (CYV) to 2000$( large Designer) is my guesstimate based on owning houses in TV. Mr. Toymeister may have more precise data.
Your maximum savings would be maybe 1/3 of your Heat & AC cost since much of the solar heat gain in summer and heat loss in winter is through the windows and air infiltration. That savings of ~13% yields a savings of 130 to 260$ per year. Even if you saved it all, there is no way to justify adding foam to the block wall cavities after construction. You would need to drill a hole through your exterior stucco wall every 4 inches or so, inject expanding foam, then patch the holes, and finally repaint your house. Repainting alone is probably 2 to 3000$

Other sources indicate that the current TV block wall design has an R value of about 10.
Concrete block with air voids 2 to 2.5
3/4 inch foam fastened to inside of wall 5
sheetrock and airspace 2.2

Total R 9.2 to 9.7

Your double pane windows have an R value of 3 to 3.7 for comparison.

Other Comments
Solid concrete is a good conductor of both heat and sound. Not good for heat savings or reducing sound.
Heat saving and sound deadening materials are generally lighter and similar in nature foam, wall coverings, special batting installed with separations to reduce sound transmitted through the structure.

[retiredguy123]

I agree with VT and other posters that say the savings for adding foam to block wall cavities post construction would not justify the expense. Listed below are some generalities for Florida power consumption for a home with electric power Heating and air conditioning.
Power Consumption
Heating and air conditioning 37%
Appliances and electric lights 50%
Hot water 13%

Your annual electric bill would be about 1000$ (CYV) to 2000$( large Designer) is my guesstimate based on owning houses in TV. Mr. Toymeister may have more precise data.
Your maximum savings would be maybe 1/3 of your Heat & AC cost since much of the solar heat gain in summer and heat loss in winter is through the windows and air infiltration. That savings of ~13% yields a savings of 130 to 260$ per year. Even if you saved it all, there is no way to justify adding foam to the block wall cavities after construction. You would need to drill a hole through your exterior stucco wall every 4 inches or so, inject expanding foam, then patch the holes, and finally repaint your house. Repainting alone is probably 2 to 3000$

Other sources indicate that the current TV block wall design has an R value of about 10.
Concrete block with air voids 2 to 2.5
3/4 inch foam fastened to inside of wall 5
sheetrock and airspace 2.2

Total R 9.2 to 9.7

Your double pane windows have an R value of 3 to 3.7 for comparison.

Other Comments
Solid concrete is a good conductor of both heat and sound. Not good for heat savings or reducing sound.
Heat saving and sound deadening materials are generally lighter and similar in nature foam, wall coverings, special batting installed with separations to reduce sound transmitted through the structure.
I somewhat disagree that concrete is a good conductor of sound. Nothing is completely soundproof. Sound is produced by an air pressure wave that vibrates your eardrum. There are 2 ways that sound can be transmitted through an exterior wall. (1) There can be air gaps in the wall that allows the air pressure wave to flow directly through the wall to your eardrum. Or, (2) The air pressure wave outside can actually vibrate the entire wall allowing the inside wall surface to replicate the air pressure wave inside the house and cause your eardrum to vibrate. Solid concrete is pretty much air tight, and it is dense, which makes it difficult to vibrate.

[ChaRobPhe]

Had foam trim on house in West Palm Beach. Had to get rid of it. The Woodpeckers love it! No sooner would get one hole filled up and there would be three more.

[ton80]

I somewhat disagree that concrete is a good conductor of sound. Nothing is completely soundproof. Sound is produced by an air pressure wave that vibrates your eardrum. There are 2 ways that sound can be transmitted through an exterior wall. (1) There can be air gaps in the wall that allows the air pressure wave to flow directly through the wall to your eardrum. Or, (2) The air pressure wave outside can actually vibrate the entire wall allowing the inside wall surface to replicate the air pressure wave inside the house and cause your eardrum to vibrate. Solid concrete is pretty much air tight, and it is dense, which makes it difficult to vibrate.

Thanks for your comment. Let me clarify my answer as well. Concrete reflects sound. It is a good sound barrier against airborne noise (example: highway sound barriers) but is a good conductor of impact noise. Example a person walking down the concrete floor with hard heels/cleats creates a racket in the hall, which can be transmitted through the concrete to the room below if that room has no sound reducing barriers or material on its ceiling. However, a person on the other side of the concrete wall in the hallway does not hear much since the concrete wall reflected the sound back to the source adding to the racket.
This explains to me what John W related. In his room with stereo on loud the sound was absorbed/reduced by the combination of the drywall and the foam insulation inside of the house. Any residual noise was reflected back by the exterior concrete wall inside towards the stereo resulting in minimal sound reaching the outside. The sound absorbing materials kept the room sound acceptable.

[retiredguy123]

Thanks for your comment. Let me clarify my answer as well. Concrete reflects sound. It is a good sound barrier against airborne noise (example: highway sound barriers) but is a good conductor of impact noise. Example a person walking down the concrete floor with hard heels/cleats creates a racket in the hall, which can be transmitted through the concrete to the room below if that room has no sound reducing barriers or material on its ceiling. However, a person on the other side of the concrete wall in the hallway does not hear much since the concrete wall reflected the sound back to the source adding to the racket.
This explains to me what John W related. In his room with stereo on loud the sound was absorbed/reduced by the combination of the drywall and the foam insulation inside of the house. Any residual noise was reflected back by the exterior concrete wall inside towards the stereo resulting in minimal sound reaching the outside. The sound absorbing materials kept the room sound acceptable.
I agree that reflecting noise back into a room is different from preventing noise from transmitting through a wall. I think John was talking about how the noise did not penetrate through the exterior wall to the outside. But, all noise is airborne. If you lived in a vacuum, you would not hear anything.

[karostay]

Train has been derailed

[Shimpy]

This is the first home I've had that is NOT block but frame and got to say the best insulated. I grew up in south Florida and all the homes were block. This frame house now is like a thermos bottle. When it gets cold inside it stays that way for days when it warms up outside.

[mark47]

Just to offer another thought over 20 years ago I was involved with building two homes in Sarasota that used foam blocks that were to be filled with cement. A new concept that I don't think caught on. It was interesting to watch. Don't know costs or if it was worth it.

[stadry]

how long can it take to lather up ? either its extremely hard water, you're a larger-than-most specimen, or need a new bar of soap,,, usual ambient ground water temp is ( guessing ) abut 65f under your slab/in the ground,,, that may feel cold when sprayed on our skin.
not aware of insulated water supply lines anywhere in the world,,, there MAY be some foam where the wtr pipe enters your very fine home in the slab penetration but, other than that, as someone else said, insulating water lines would be a difficult as smelling the # 9
we built several structures using icf's ( insulated concrete forms ) [ think of a cmu only styrofoam ] what a TERRIFIC product - quiet, insulated, solid, almost hurricane-proof,,, addl cost amortization over stick-build was 18% ( 5yr payback ),,, as bldr efficiency increased, that cost adjusted to 22%,,, believe there's a 12story bldg in miami of icf's

[E Cascade]

Has anyone moved their hot water heater to an indoor closet.....closer to the bathrooms?

[whitevibe]

There is the huge benefit of helping to keep bugs out as well, as the foam contains boric acid. There is a reason Publix stores, and others I'm sure, always foam inject. It also strengthens walls (and roofs). It used to be less than 1500 bucks, the best upgrade imho, but again, it should be a standard feature. A good builder would use it.

[rjm1cc]

Has anyone moved their hot water heater to an indoor closet.....closer to the bathrooms?

Look at these pumps. Might be an easier option.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hot+water+circulation+pump&crid=1BTY3U7NH6KXY&sprefix=hot+wate+cir%2Caps%2C183&ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_1_12

[C. C. Rider]

Has anyone moved their hot water heater to an indoor closet.....closer to the bathrooms?

Yep, that's the way I had mine built. Hot water tank is in a closet just off the master bath. Hot water QUICK! I also had the copper hot water lines wrapped with the foam type pipe insulation under the slab. Makes a big difference in how long the water will stay warm once you turn it off.

I've found that water will stay comfortably warm for up to 30 minutes in the insulated pipes after turning it off. No problem at all with turning the water off for a few minutes and then turning it back on while in the shower, brushing your teeth, shaving, or whatever.

[CWGUY]

Yep, that's the way I had mine built. Hot water tank is in a closet just off the master bath. Hot water QUICK! I also had the copper hot water lines wrapped with the foam type pipe insulation under the slab. Makes a big difference in how long the water will stay warm once you turn it off.

I've found that water will stay comfortably warm for up to 30 minutes in the insulated pipes after turning it off. No problem at all with turning the water off for a few minutes and then turning it back on while in the shower, brushing your teeth, shaving, or whatever.

:undecided: Are you sure they are copper? :)

[Investment Painting Contractors]

My house was built in 1997 and I have Copper. Len

[C. C. Rider]

:undecided: Are you sure they are copper? :)

Absolutely! I can see them in a couple of places where they come up out of the concrete slab. All copper. House built in 2002. But I'm not in TV if that matters.

[KRM0614]

The foam is only as good as the quality of it and how much was added. It’s a great idea people down here don’t realize an insulated house saves money for cool temperatures.

A dehumidifier and electrostatic air cleaner should be mandatory if the customer wants to add value as well- also good quality windows not the junk they currently install.