Confederate Flag / Political Flag

[Nucky]

So I figured someone else would make the call because it's not my thing to do so but the Confederate Flag being flown over a Political Flag doesn't seem to good to me and upsets me greatly. I looked around the internet and see that the American Flag should be flown at the top. I like that. I don't really care about the Confederate Flag or Political Flag of any of the parties being flown but no American Flag? Not too good to me.

I called Community Watch and they said they have no jurisdiction over this particular issue. My question is who does or if I'm wrong let me know. This has been this way for about 2 weeks that I know of. It may have been there longer but that's when I noticed it. I have been leaving the premises on another route until this gets resolved. It's killing me and I could use a helping hand on who to call. I really don't want to call the Police because they are busy with other things but if I must I will.

What do you think? Just asking for a helping hand. Take it easy. My post is constructive.

[kathyspear]

Why don't you just drop by or send them a note to point out that according to flag etiquette the US flag should be above the other flags, in case they don't know. But if they choose not to swap their flags around I don't think there is much you can do about it. I must admit that I don't understand why this would bother you so much that you won't drive by the house in question, but we are all entitled to feel however we like about whatever we like.

Good luck getting them to resolve this issue.

kathy

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Nucky, I admire your passion but the first amendment of our constitution guarantees freedom of speech and expression. If the flags in question are on private property, I believe the owner is free to display them as s/he wishes, unless there are local community rules barring them.

[rjn5656]

It is unfortunate. But just ignore it.

[rochellepfaff]

It is proper etiquette to fly the American flag above other flags. Even on private property. The only time the American flag is not flown higher than other flags, is when it is with flags of other countries. Then they should all be the same height. I would stop and politely ask the home owner to reverse them. He might not know that he has them backwards.

[dewilson58]

It is proper etiquette to fly the American flag above other flags. Even on private property. The only time the American flag is not flown higher than other flags, is when it is with flags of other countries. Then they should all be the same height. I would stop and politely ask the home owner to reverse them. He might not know that he has them backwards.




"Confederate Flag being flown over a Political Flag"

[024engine]

P. S. That is likely not the Confederate flag anyhow. Most people don't even know that the flag you are referring to is most likely th Virginia battle flag. The Confederate flag is the Stars and Bars. Look it up.

[bmit16]

People today are so quick to hide their way of not being able to handle something by saying, " it offends me". Yet, you want people to see things your way. A lot of people are proud of this country and believe the men that fought for the confederacy did so because they were mad at the way the US Government was running the Country. Not about Slavery. They stood and fought behind that flag as the Confederacy and what they believed in. That's kind of where we are today in a lot of peoples minds. It is called Freedom of expression. Fighting for the 1st and 2nd amendments.

[paquino]

Read the post. It said “no American flag”.

[hrdcorpsmarine]

Ok I’m confused! Is it the Confederate flag that aggravates or offends you so much? If that’s the situation man up and say so. If the Confederate flag is flying above a political banner why would you care? There is NO flag etiquette for that situation.

[stadry]

if, as the op posted, someone's flying a confederate ( battle flag presumably ) above a political ( undefined ) flag, why mention the u s flag ? irrelevant - the u s flag ( & attendant etiquette ), under which i also served, is not his comment / question

[Moderator]

A number of posts were deleted as off topic or directed at others.

The topic is the rules and etiquette for flying flags in The Villages.

Moderator

[billethkid]

After all the discussion about what the confederate flag stands for or the guessing the intent...it is not known whether the person is violating flag etiquette in error or making a statement?

Being neighborly curious, one could ask why they chose to fly the flag they way the have.

[Nucky]

Why don't you just drop by or send them a note to point out that according to flag etiquette the US flag should be above the other flags, in case they don't know. But if they choose not to swap their flags around I don't think there is much you can do about it. I must admit that I don't understand why this would bother you so much that you won't drive by the house in question, but we are all entitled to feel however we like about whatever we like.

Good luck getting them to resolve this issue.

kathy

On a different issue or conflict and if they were my neighbor I would talk about it with them if I saw them outside. Knock on the door?? Not even a remote chance. I do understand your idea and 20 years ago maybe it would have worked for me but as of today that idea is a no go. I could ask you to go for me but I don't want to be disrespectful as you don't deserve that. Disrespect is what made me post in the first place but it wasn't the disrespect of a person it was the disrespect of The AMERICAN FLAG.

I don't want to stop someone from flying the other flags that are there now but the way I understand it THE AMERICAN FLAG is flown in the top position. My main QUESTION was who do I contact to have this corrected if in fact it is wrong. It seems wrong but I'm looking for help from someone who is in the know and confirmation that the AMERICAN FLAG should be present.

One of the replies I got so far the wildest one by far was was move back north. After reading my original post thats your answer? Are you the person with the flags I'm talking about? I did mention I was looking for guidance and was being constructive. I'm not trying to change anybody's feelings or view about the flags that are there now. What they think about those flags is not my business. The Flag that's missing is our business.

If the answer is that the flag configuration I mentioned is fine I guess I have to accept it. If someone know who to call please let me know.

[anothersteve]

P. S. That is likely not the Confederate flag anyhow. Most people don't even know that the flag you are referring to is most likely th Virginia battle flag. The Confederate flag is the Stars and Bars. Look it up.

This?

[Lindsyburnsy]

I walk all over The Villages and find that all these political flags, stickers, signs, etc. do nothing more than divide rather than unite people. What is the point? I can understand taking a different route to avoid these divisive symbols.

So I figured someone else would make the call because it's not my thing to do so but the Confederate Flag being flown over a Political Flag doesn't seem to good to me and upsets me greatly. I looked around the internet and see that the American Flag should be flown at the top. I like that. I don't really care about the Confederate Flag or Political Flag of any of the parties being flown but no American Flag? Not too good to me.

I called Community Watch and they said they have no jurisdiction over this particular issue. My question is who does or if I'm wrong let me know. This has been this way for about 2 weeks that I know of. It may have been there longer but that's when I noticed it. I have been leaving the premises on another route until this gets resolved. It's killing me and I could use a helping hand on who to call. I really don't want to call the Police because they are busy with other things but if I must I will.

What do you think? Just asking for a helping hand. Take it easy. My post is constructive.

[Bill1701]

My understanding is that if you have a permitted flag pole, you can fly whatever flags you want however you want. Etiquette is ignored around here in most matters so I'm not surprised it maybe ignored when it comes to flags also.

[Nucky]

Don't look at it. They can fly whatever they want. If it upsets you that much, move back up north.

P. S. That is likely not the Confederate flag anyhow. Most people don't even know that the flag you are referring to is most likely th Virginia battle flag. The Confederate flag is the Stars and Bars. Look it up.

I took your advice and looked it up. You got me I was wrong. It was a Miami Dolphin Classic Flag. Ooops!

I'm going to stay constructive here. I and other Northerners are here to stay. If there is any moving to be done it won't be me or them but thanks for your constructive posts.

[golfing eagles]

On a different issue or conflict and if they were my neighbor I would talk about it with them if I saw them outside. Knock on the door?? Not even a remote chance. I do understand your idea and 20 years ago maybe it would have worked for me but as of today that idea is a no go. I could ask you to go for me but I don't want to be disrespectful as you don't deserve that. Disrespect is what made me post in the first place but it wasn't the disrespect of a person it was the disrespect of The AMERICAN FLAG.

I don't want to stop someone from flying the other flags that are there now but the way I understand it THE AMERICAN FLAG is flown in the top position. My main QUESTION was who do I contact to have this corrected if in fact it is wrong. It seems wrong but I'm looking for help from someone who is in the know and confirmation that the AMERICAN FLAG should be present.

One of the replies I got so far the wildest one by far was was move back north. After reading my original post thats your answer? Are you the person with the flags I'm talking about? I did mention I was looking for guidance and was being constructive. I'm not trying to change anybody's feelings or view about the flags that are there now. What they think about those flags is not my business. The Flag that's missing is our business.

If the answer is that the flag configuration I mentioned is fine I guess I have to accept it. If someone know who to call please let me know.

I guess the 2 questions are:

1) Whenever ANY flags are flown, does it have to include the American flag?, and

2) Are there deed restrictions that prohibit flying political or historically controversial flags? There are restrictions on signs and 6 inch garden gnomes so as not to offend neighbors, I would think this is even more offensive to some

I don't know if this is even reportable or to whom you can report it. Of course there are certain organizations that take even greater offense to the confederate flag, but I doubt you want to stir up that hornet's nest

[jackpine]

Folks are offended way to easily in today's world. Just ignore it if you are offended.

I don't think there is a requirement to fly the American flag.

[Nucky]

I guess the 2 questions are:

1) Whenever ANY flags are flown, does it have to include the American flag?, and

2) Are there deed restrictions that prohibit flying political or historically controversial flags? There are restrictions on signs and 6 inch garden gnomes so as not to offend neighbors, I would think this is even more offensive to some

I don't know if this is even reportable or to whom you can report it. Of course there are certain organizations that take even greater offense to the confederate flag, but I doubt you want to stir up that hornet's nest

Bingo! I don't really want to stir up anything on any issue or be controversial. I figured that NOTHING could be done here or someone else would have taken care of it already. We are surrounded by so many Veterans and if this bothers me I can hardly imagine how they feel after risking everything for our Country and our Flag.

I think I'm going to give the Flag Store on 441 a call later today and ask the professionals for some guidance.

[fishon]

"I took your advice and looked it up. You got me I was wrong. It was a Miami Dolphin Classic Flag. Ooops! "

A Miami Dolphin flag set you off and triggered some responses by the habitually offended.
Good job!

[BostonRich]

Flag FYI:

Did you know that all of the "American Flags" on Main Street in Disney (except the big one in the circle in front of the train station that has the daily ceremony) are missing one star and one stripe so that they are not officially "American Flags" and therefore don't have to be taken down every evening?

I thought that was an interesting flag tidbit.

[BobnBev]

Big question-----I wonder if that is a "permitted" flag pole? No permit, remove it.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

It is proper etiquette to fly the American flag above other flags. Even on private property. The only time the American flag is not flown higher than other flags, is when it is with flags of other countries. Then they should all be the same height. I would stop and politely ask the home owner to reverse them. He might not know that he has them backwards.

OP says there is no American flag at all.

[Gigi3000]

Imho, the Confederate flag should be banned. When I see someone flying it, I cringe, think they are redneck and avoid them. I consider them low life and uneducated. Now, this may or may not be true of everyone, so dont go jumping down my throat, this is how I
FEEL Maybe a new flag could be made the represents the grievance southern states had but we all know slavery was the main issue, dont go sugar coating it.

[WILEYWORLD]

LEAVE it alone No one would even know if you had not brought it to nows everyones attention...
whats next statues....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The answer is no - the American flag is not required to be flown on flagpoles. The rule is - IF you include the American flag on your flagpole, THEN it must be flown on top of any other flags on that flagpole.

You can fly a smiley face flag with the words "Have a Nice Day" on it, and not have to top it with the American flag. You can put the Virginia battle flag (the flag in question since - as someone else pointed out - it is NOT "the" confederate flag) on top of a picture of Mitt Romney kissing Miss Piggy, and not top it with the American flag.

But IF you put the American flag on that flagpole with Mitt and the VA battle flag, the American flag has to be closest to the finial on top.

All flags on the flagpole are optional. It's only the order they need to be in, WHEN they are included, that matters.

[golfing eagles]

LEAVE it alone No one would even know if you had not brought it to nows everyones attention...
whats next statues....

Really???? That's your approach to issues that may be controversial or offend at least some of the people in our open and free democracy???? Sweep it under the rug????

How would that have worked out for Women's suffrage? Segregation? Civil rights? Watergate?

The OP has every right to be offended, every right to share the origin of his consternation, and we all have the right to debate it. It's dictatorships and totalitarian societies that cover up and ignore such incidents.

[ffresh]

All flags on the flagpole are optional. It's only the order they need to be in, WHEN they are included, that matters.


Probably what matters even more (in the scheme of things) is:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL30243.pdf

The United States Flag: Federal Law Relating to Display and Associated Questions
John R. Luckey Legislative Attorney

Nature of Codification of Customs and Rules
The Flag Code is a codification of customs and rules established for the use of certain civilians and civilian groups. No penalty or punishment is specified in the Flag Code for display of the flag of the United States in a manner other than as suggested. Cases which have construed the former 36 U.S.C. § 17522 have concluded that the Flag Code does not proscribe conduct, but is merely declaratory and advisory.23

[OhioBuckeye]

So I figured someone else would make the call because it's not my thing to do so but the Confederate Flag being flown over a Political Flag doesn't seem to good to me and upsets me greatly. I looked around the internet and see that the American Flag should be flown at the top. I like that. I don't really care about the Confederate Flag or Political Flag of any of the parties being flown but no American Flag? Not too good to me.

I called Community Watch and they said they have no jurisdiction over this particular issue. My question is who does or if I'm wrong let me know. This has been this way for about 2 weeks that I know of. It may have been there longer but that's when I noticed it. I have been leaving the premises on another route until this gets resolved. It's killing me and I could use a helping hand on who to call. I really don't want to call the Police because they are busy with other things but if I must I will.

What do you think? Just asking for a helping hand. Take it easy. My post is constructive.
I guess I never gave it much thought about any flag flown with the American flag. I guess I always thought people that flew the Confederate flag were just proud of the south. I wouldn't bother TV about it because I can tell you they probably won't do anything because they're not going to start any problems. If I were you & it bothers you just keep what your doing now & just avoid going by this home. To me it's just a symbol to show how much these people love the south!

[karostay]

Pets with fake service vest Kinda the same thing

[Traderjo]

The Us govt won the war against treason


In Germany you cannot fly the Nazi glad

The person flying this flag shows the ignorance they have with US history

If they are trying to prove a point,
The point is lost
It turns people off

And if they are trying to promote a candidate for public office,
This treason flag
Turns people off to that candidate

So it is a
Loose/loose for that persons point of view

???? That's your approach to issues that may be controversial or offend at least some of the people in our open and free democracy???? Sweep it under the rug????

How would that have worked out for Women's suffrage? Segregation? Civil rights? Watergate?

The OP has every right to be offended, every right to share the origin of his consternation, and we all have the right to debate it. It's dictatorships and totalitarian societies that cover up and ignore such incidents.[/QUOTE]

[graciegirl]

"I took your advice and looked it up. You got me I was wrong. It was a Miami Dolphin Classic Flag. Ooops! "

A Miami Dolphin flag set you off and triggered some responses by the habitually offended.
Good job!

I know Nucky and his lovely wife and I think he was being witty. I know his head is on straight and when he says something I pay attention. Very rarely we see things differently but Nucky is a good person with sane views. He has changed my mind on issues. Good folks, the Nuckys.

[jswirs]

So I figured someone else would make the call because it's not my thing to do so but the Confederate Flag being flown over a Political Flag doesn't seem to good to me and upsets me greatly. I looked around the internet and see that the American Flag should be flown at the top. I like that. I don't really care about the Confederate Flag or Political Flag of any of the parties being flown but no American Flag? Not too good to me.

I called Community Watch and they said they have no jurisdiction over this particular issue. My question is who does or if I'm wrong let me know. This has been this way for about 2 weeks that I know of. It may have been there longer but that's when I noticed it. I have been leaving the premises on another route until this gets resolved. It's killing me and I could use a helping hand on who to call. I really don't want to call the Police because they are busy with other things but if I must I will.

What do you think? Just asking for a helping hand. Take it easy. My post is constructive.
"Upsets me greatly"....."It's killing me"...Personally I don't let other peoples opinions, flags, etc., bother me. It's simply not worth it. If it's not breaking any laws, just let it go. For me, it's God, family and friends, first. Nothing else is nearly as important. As you say in your last sentence, "Take it easy".

[Marathon Man]

Bingo! I don't really want to stir up anything on any issue or be controversial. I figured that NOTHING could be done here or someone else would have taken care of it already. We are surrounded by so many Veterans and if this bothers me I can hardly imagine how they feel after risking everything for our Country and our Flag.

I think I'm going to give the Flag Store on 441 a call later today and ask the professionals for some guidance.

Seems kinda like you did.

[Nucky]

My request was originally simple. Does anyone know who would handle this if indeed it is wrong? I did not have the answers to those questions. I still don't. The person who would handle my question at the Flag Store on 441 will be available tomorrow. I will certainly call

How someone could draw a conclusion on my Political Affiliation from my posts makes that person clearly Carnac The Magnificent. I truly don't care what the person flying those two flags thinks. It's not my business and I have no need to teach or school them in anyway or try to change their mind. My comment about the Miami Dolphin Flag being mistaken for a Confederate Flag was to illustrate that possibly I do realize the difference and I couldn't believe that questioning that could be possible. Of course I know or I wouldn't have named it a Confederate Flag in the first place.

Well here's the good news. Don't have any idea if it's a coincidence or because of our give and take here today but both flags have been taken down. Maybe they are out getting bigger ones? I never did and never would reveal the address where these flags were on our Forum and still after all the conversation we've had today we still have no verifiable proof of what the real rule is about the flags YET. This is one of the times documentation and a source would be great.

In any event like the kids say, it's all good. I really got a kick out of move back north if you don't like it. That's the ultimate spin on someone who started a thread looking for information.

[EdFNJ]

Confused by your OP. WAS THERE an American Flag as well as the other 2 (for a total of 3)? If there was you have something to complain about (flag display protocol despite the fact there is no one to complain to who would do anything). If there was no American flag on the pole (for a total of 2 flags) there was nothing to disrespect other than maybe the person's political opinions for which there is the First Amendment and def nothing you can do.

[Mumbles]

What IS a flag, anyway? It is a piece of material (if on a pole) that can show any number of "feelings" the flyer has. Mostly, flags are used to identify pride in someone (Che Guevara, for example), or in something (Manchester United soccer).
From what I know, there are certain "types" of flags, such as team flags, corporate flags, school flags, culture flags, state/country flags, pirate flags, ideology flags and the like. Flags are symbolic, decorative, advertising, preachy, and so on.

As far as this thread: The flyer of the flag in question "appears" to want others to know where their fealty/heart is. That's, I think, akin to those who put bumper stickers on their cars. Some are funny, others are obnoxious, some don't make sense, some are preachy, some give away size of family. Still, I think telling someone they should move back to where they came from (if, like Nucky, they are POd by some flag) that that person is NOT among like-minded folks, well, the intimation is that there is NO PLACE in TV for "contrary" people. I wouldn't tell someone they are not wanted if they believe x, y, or z about anything 'cause I don't feel it's my place (if it's ANYBODY'S place) to tell another person that. I'm not their parent, their local cop, their judge. (Also, I don't want to get punched in the nose.)

I suggest we leave flag waving alone.

[Topspinmo]

My understanding is that if you have a permitted flag pole, you can fly whatever flags you want however you want. Etiquette is ignored around here in most matters so I'm not surprised it maybe ignored when it comes to flags also.


If another flag is on the pole with the American flag the American flag has to be on top. Now if you are in another country that country flag will be on top and the American flag below it. BS flags can be flown however the want as long as the American flag not on the pole. if it is it will be at the top.

[Topspinmo]

We are in the south, going to see few confederate flags around mostly on private property or stuck in bed of pickup truck. Just like we see flags for Canada 🇨🇦 and Mexico and other countries and 99.999% fly the flags properly with the American flag on top and the other flag on bottom. I personally don’t care 🤷*♀️ what other people do on private property. I have no control or say so. We are still free country.

[Bogie Shooter]

I took your advice and looked it up. You got me I was wrong. It was a Miami Dolphin Classic Flag. Ooops!

I'm going to stay constructive here. I and other Northerners are here to stay. If there is any moving to be done it won't be me or them but thanks for your constructive posts.

See what you started?

[Bogie Shooter]

Can we all move on to dog poop?

[Dennys37Packard]

A flag pole is just that, a pole. IF an American flag is flown, then YES, etiquette states it is flown at top. IF there is no American flag, then it is a pole to display whatever you wish. I see things that I wouldn’t want on my yard, but then again, it’s not my yard. I’d hate to have someone report me for my red shutters, because it offends them as Communist, or whatever they don’t like. Relax, enjoy what little time most of us have left in this great place we call home, and don’t let things get to you. We sometimes let something eat at us and we miss out on the good times. My humble advise, leave it go and look away. They might have a reason ( a distant family relative died in a battle and it is their way of honoring them) . We never know the reason UNLESS we ask.

[Gerryk12]

Nucky: Where is this Confederate Flag? What community and please be specific. I have a neighbor who flies the Confederate Flag and understand his feelings! In addition, if the Confederate Flag disturbs you, I would politely, suggest you focus on more serious issues within our community.

[Velvet]

2 flags could be side by side on 2 poles. Can we have 2 flag poles in TV?

[gpkk_2000]

From your post I can't tell if there is an American flag involved.

[Nucky]

See what you started?

I know what you mean! All I really want is to know the law and see it in writing. And if what I saw was wrong who to contact. Dats it. I don't know if you saw the posts that were graciously deleted very early today. They were wild.

I'm not against these peoples flags at all. I am not trying to sway or change anybody. I'm against the American Flag Not being flown at the top. Seems sensible to me. :pray:

[E Cascade]

I thought I heard somewhere at TV that flag poles were not allowed.....they actually are viewed as statues/icons/extra stuff that is not allowed. They kinda look away during Christmas holidays, but after that they do not allow it. Might want to check with the organization that checks lawns and their removal, upkeep, etc.

[percival]

No American flag being flown.

[Velvet]

I have a flag pole something on the side of my garage, but I don’t see anyone have any flags in my neighborhood. I figured that it was for July 4th.

Someone put out a small holder with a small cloth on the lawn that says: “We are playing” and that’s about it.

[l2ridehd]

As I understand this complex thread, no American flag was on the flag pole in question. There was a flag on top that was maybe a confederate flag or a team flag, but some flag that the OP thought was a confederate flag. And below that some political flag. Left, right, not stated that I saw.

I had a great great grandfather and a great grandfather who fought in the civil war for the North. So not a fan of the confederate flag.

However they have a first amendment right to fly both those flags as long as no American flag is involved or if it was, the American flag is above the other two. A lot of really good people died to give them that right. So if it offends you to bad. We have taken "the politically correct" thing to do or say to the point of being absurd. It's their flag, their flag pole, and from what I can read here they have not dishonored the American flag so drop it.

[Thomas Schreiber]

The American Flag is not on the pole so reversing does nothing. There is no requirement to put an American Flag on the pole. I would
rather see one but some people only fly their college flags.

[bmit16]

Flag etiquette for the U.S. Flag only applies if there is a U.S. Flag flying. If there is no U.S. Flag then Flag etiquette does not apply. You still have not made it clear if there is a U.S. Flag present. The only Flag etiquette is this Top U.S. Flag, below the State Flag, below that a Local Flag, below that, any other flags.

[GoPacers]

The vast majority of the time the confederate flag means two things. One of which is the person flying the flag is likely uneducated. The second is obvious and often follows the first. While it may be someone's right to fly the flag it doesn't make it desireable to have it in your neighborhood.

[ColdNoMore]

The vast majority of the time the confederate flag means two things. One of which is the person flying the flag is likely uneducated. The second is obvious and often follows the first. While it may be someone's right to fly the flag it doesn't make it desireable to have it in your neighborhood.

YEP...nailed it. :thumbup:

[TimeForChange]

There is a Villager down the street who plays "Taps" at sundown on many days. This is incorrect! Taps is played at Military funerals or before midnight on military bases. He should be playing "Retreat" at sundown as the flag is lowered. This is just incorrect. I think I will call Community Watch and Community Standards to see if they can do something!......LOL!

[TimeForChange]

Incorrect.....Many true, native, Southerner's like me had distant relatives from the early and mid 1800's who died in the "War of Northern Aggression". Although I do not fly the Confederate Battle Flag I still admire the fact that my family history was one of coming here from Ireland and Scotland, assuming land under a government grant program, raising a family, farming and wanting to be left alone. The person flying that flag may be more educated than you and just is showing their pride in being a Southerner! Today's world is one of attempting to change history. We cannot.

[billethkid]

Incorrect.....Many true, native, Southerner's like me had distant relatives from the early and mid 1800's who died in the "War of Northern Aggression". Although I do not fly the Confederate Battle Flag I still admire the fact that my family history was one of coming here from Ireland and Scotland, assuming land under a government grant program, raising a family, farming and wanting to be left alone. The person flying that flag may be more educated than you and just is showing their pride in being a Southerner! Today's world is one of attempting to change history. We cannot.

And where the special interest groups can get away with it....eliminate history.
Yale for example is eliminating some of the history programming as it has been found to not be diverse enough.
The sad part of what is "going on today" is it is the minority (not race) that is winning these moves to change the world as it HAPPENED.

I know....off the subject of the thread but some what tangential.

[ColdNoMore]

The vast majority of the time the confederate flag means two things. One of which is the person flying the flag is likely uneducated. The second is obvious and often follows the first. While it may be someone's right to fly the flag it doesn't make it desireable to have it in your neighborhood.

Given the attempt at revisionist history once again regarding the reason for the Civil War and its traitorous attempt at destroying the United States through secession...I think your post is worth repeating. :ohdear:

[Nucky]

As I understand this complex thread, no American flag was on the flag pole in question. There was a flag on top that was maybe a confederate flag or a team flag, but some flag that the OP thought was a confederate flag. And below that some political flag. Left, right, not stated that I saw.

I had a great great grandfather and a great grandfather who fought in the civil war for the North. So not a fan of the confederate flag.

However they have a first amendment right to fly both those flags as long as no American flag is involved or if it was, the American flag is above the other two. A lot of really good people died to give them that right. So if it offends you to bad. We have taken "the politically correct" thing to do or say to the point of being absurd. It's their flag, their flag pole, and from what I can read here they have not dishonored the American flag so drop it.

However they have a first amendment right to fly both those flags as long as no American flag is involved or if it was, the American flag is above the other two.

This is the answer. Simple. It is the first time I've ever seen two flags on a 30 foot Flag Pole and The American Flag wasn't one of them and at the top.

I agree the thread did get complicated because I answered posts by others that have been deleted. Simple question, simple answer. Thank You. I believe you but don't really like the answer but Thank You. It is what it is. I've been told Google is my friend but couldn't find the info you supplied online.

[Marathon Man]

So I figured someone else would make the call because it's not my thing to do so but the Confederate Flag being flown over a Political Flag doesn't seem to good to me and upsets me greatly. I looked around the internet and see that the American Flag should be flown at the top. I like that. I don't really care about the Confederate Flag or Political Flag of any of the parties being flown but no American Flag? Not too good to me.

I called Community Watch and they said they have no jurisdiction over this particular issue. My question is who does or if I'm wrong let me know. This has been this way for about 2 weeks that I know of. It may have been there longer but that's when I noticed it. I have been leaving the premises on another route until this gets resolved. It's killing me and I could use a helping hand on who to call. I really don't want to call the Police because they are busy with other things but if I must I will.

What do you think? Just asking for a helping hand. Take it easy. My post is constructive.

Most of the discussion seemed to be triggered by the above statement.

[Jodybaby]

As I understand your post you are questioning if the American flag should be flown?? Just because it is a flagpole does not dictate a US flag having to be flown!! In respect to the confederate flag you should research what flag is being flown and ascertain it is not a state flag as many resemble the confederate stars and bars. Finally if a confederate flag or state flag is flown in conjunction with a political flag there is absolutely no precedent which should be on top. I feel your problem is either with the confederate flag or the "political flag" and most likely the political flag.

[blueash]

So my take after reading five pages is that the rules in the villages to not speak to whatever you fly on a flagpole. You can fly an American flag, or not. Or fly the flag of a nation which attacked the US and caused more deaths than in any other war in our history, or not. You could fly a Nazi flag because your great grandfather fought for the Reich and you may not agree with all the Reich's policies but understand that grandfather was being a patriot to his culture. You could fly the Soviet hammer and sickle flag or the flag of PLO. And because it is on a flagpole there are no regulations.

And I guess this is the loophole where you can fly a "Home for sale" flag up there as big as a flag can get, and because we don't regulate flag content. Freedom of speech and protecting the second amendment requires that "well regulated" mean not regulated.

[TommyT]

After reading this thread, I see the War may NOT be OVER for some.... :ohdear: :ohdear:

[graciegirl]

If we try, we can make something ugly out of almost everything.




…..Mother Bedelia.

[ffresh]

Incorrect.....Many true, native, Southerner's like me had distant relatives from the early and mid 1800's who died in the "War of Northern Aggression". Although I do not fly the Confederate Battle Flag I still admire the fact that my family history was one of coming here from Ireland and Scotland, assuming land under a government grant program, raising a family, farming and wanting to be left alone. The person flying that flag may be more educated than you and just is showing their pride in being a Southerner! Today's world is one of attempting to change history. We cannot.

OH SO TRUE (and thank you for stating the NOT SO OBVIOUS)! There is quite a bit more to the civil war and the causes which resulted in more Americans killed than in all other wars combined. The victors write the history books, however, and have taught that the war was fought over slavery (period). States Rights and the right to secession of any state from the union is never broached in the history books. The 10th Amendment is unfamiliar territory to most folks as a result of public schooling but many are quick to lecture others on their understanding of history. A wonderful book written on this very subject is "Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men" by Jeffrey Rogers Hummel, which elucidates many of these very issues. And, NO, I am not a southerner - was born and have always lived in the north but I have a reasonably clear understanding of "true" history in many areas that have piqued my interest. The sources, of course, must be pursued from other than indoctrinating public schooling. All best left for another topic, I suppose … just sayin' :blahblahblah:

[theruizs]

P. S. That is likely not the Confederate flag anyhow. Most people don't even know that the flag you are referring to is most likely th Virginia battle flag. The Confederate flag is the Stars and Bars. Look it up.

I looked it up. The Stars and Bars was the first Confederate Flag beginning 1861 but was replaced in 1863 by the Stainless Banner, and again in 1865 by the Blood Stained Banner. Both of the latter have the design that today is often called the “Confederate Flag” in the upper left corner on a field of white. The Blood Stained version added a blood red vertical bar on the far right. And that upper left design was also adopted as the North Virginia Battle Flag (more square, not rectangular). Why that upper left design is reproduced as an entire rectangular flag and sold as the Confederate Flag, I do not know.

[Moderator]

Again, the topic is flag etiquette/rules in The Villages.

If you want to have a non-political discussion about the Civil War, feel free to start a new thread.

Moderator

[ColdNoMore]

Per the mod's suggestion (click here) (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/war-between-states-302385/)

[golfing eagles]

The part of this whole discussion that I find amazing (for The Villages), is that flags on a flagpole are not covered in the deed restrictions. After all, you can't put a 6 inch garden gnome in your landscaping since it is a magical pagan creature and could offend those that are devout believers in a different religion. Signs have to be small and theoretically only displayed in a window. Most deed restrictions are designed to enhance aesthetics and as to not offend others. Imho, a Nazi flag, and ISIS flag or a confederate flag is far more offensive to many more people than a garden gnome or a pair of brass herons, yet there is no deed restriction. If a deed restriction regarding flags would be a first amendment violation, then so would a ban on pink flamingos on a lawn. Just sayin'

[anothersteve]

OH SO TRUE (and thank you for stating the NOT SO OBVIOUS)! There is quite a bit more to the civil war and the causes which resulted in more Americans killed than in all other wars combined. The victors write the history books, however, and have taught that the war was fought over slavery (period). States Rights and the right to secession of any state from the union is never broached in the history books. The 10th Amendment is unfamiliar territory to most folks as a result of public schooling but many are quick to lecture others on their understanding of history. A wonderful book written on this very subject is "Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men" by Jeffrey Rogers Hummel, which elucidates many of these very issues. And, NO, I am not a southerner - was born and have always lived in the north but I have a reasonably clear understanding of "true" history in many areas that have piqued my interest. The sources, of course, must be pursued from other than indoctrinating public schooling. All best left for another topic, I suppose … just sayin' :blahblahblah:

Thank you
Steve

[ColdNoMore]

The part of this whole discussion that I find amazing (for The Villages), is that flags on a flagpole are not covered in the deed restrictions. After all, you can't put a 6 inch garden gnome in your landscaping since it is a magical pagan creature and could offend those that are devout believers in a different religion. Signs have to be small and theoretically only displayed in a window. Most deed restrictions are designed to enhance aesthetics and as to not offend others. Imho, a Nazi flag, and ISIS flag or a confederate flag is far more offensive to many more people than a garden gnome or a pair of brass herons, yet there is no deed restriction. If a deed restriction regarding flags would be a first amendment violation, then so would a ban on pink flamingos on a lawn. Just sayin'

While it pains me to say this...I agree. :oops:


On a positive note...you're making good progress. :thumbup:

[golfing eagles]

While it pains me to say this...I agree. :oops:


On a positive note...you're making good progress. :thumbup:

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

So are you:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[EdFNJ]

The part of this whole discussion that I find amazing (for The Villages), is that flags on a flagpole are not covered in the deed restrictions. After all, you can't put a 6 inch garden gnome in your landscaping since it is a magical pagan creature and could offend those that are devout believers in a different religion. Signs have to be small and theoretically only displayed in a window. Most deed restrictions are designed to enhance aesthetics and as to not offend others. Imho, a Nazi flag, and ISIS flag or a confederate flag is far more offensive to many more people than a garden gnome or a pair of brass herons, yet there is no deed restriction. If a deed restriction regarding flags would be a first amendment violation, then so would a ban on pink flamingos on a lawn. Just sayin' I don't think "garden gnomes" and flamingos and crosses and stars of David and other "lawn stuff" are "banned" for religious reason but only to keep them from multiplying like rabbits ending up as 150 "garden gnomes" and flamingos and other stuff on one person's lawn turning our neighborhoods into what looks like a novelty shop. :D

[golfing eagles]

I don't think "garden gnomes" and flamingos and crosses and stars of David and other "lawn stuff" are "banned" for religious reason but only to keep them from multiplying like rabbits ending up as 150 "garden gnomes" and flamingos and other stuff on one person's lawn turning our neighborhoods into what looks like a novelty shop. :D

In which case it might be offensive to the neighbors, kind of like a Nazi flag?

[EnglishJW]

I am hoping to lighten this up just a bit. We once had a very impressive flag pole that could be used to display numerous flags simultaneously. We usually flew four flags in fact. The top flag was always the United States flag. But after that, it was primarily a question of who got up first (yes, all of the flags were taken down each evening). If it was my son, the Brasilian flag was second. If it was my wife, the Italian flag was second. If it was me, the Irish flag came second. We never did actually resolve the order of the 3rd and 4th flags. Oh, and those last three flags were always smaller in size then the U.S. flag.

[Andyb]

It’s his first amendment right. Ignore it and move on.

[golfing eagles]

It’s his first amendment right. Ignore it and move on.

Then so is a garden gnome, correct?

[Nucky]

I've moved on already. The flags are down, my original questions were simple and I appreciate every answer, even the ones that were a little rough. I was searching for info I couldn't find on my own. Now I have to much info. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[l2ridehd]

The vast majority of the time the confederate flag means two things. One of which is the person flying the flag is likely uneducated. The second is obvious and often follows the first. While it may be someone's right to fly the flag it doesn't make it desireable to have it in your neighborhood.

That is a generalization that I do not agree with. There all uneducated? Really? So the 100's of thousands of Americans who fought and died for the South in the civil war were just a bunch of dumb folks? Again I disagree. There was more than one reason for the civil war. Slavery was the one the media hype at the time drove to recruit more solders from the North to fight. It was a reason and for many the primary reason, but for just as many it was states rights. Heresy to say it but it is true.

Lets just suppose that someone here grew up in the South and had a great great someone who fought and died in that horrible war. Maybe they were flying the flag on that person birthday or the day they died. Some very valid reason. And you claim they must be uneducated. Very sad way to think.

[ColdNoMore]

That is a generalization that I do not agree with. There all uneducated? Really? So the 100's of thousands of Americans who fought and died for the South in the civil war were just a bunch of dumb folks? Again I disagree. There was more than one reason for the civil war. Slavery was the one the media hype at the time drove to recruit more solders from the North to fight. It was a reason and for many the primary reason, but for just as many it was states rights. Heresy to say it but it is true.

Lets just suppose that someone here grew up in the South and had a great great someone who fought and died in that horrible war. Maybe they were flying the flag on that person birthday or the day they died. Some very valid reason. And you claim they must be uneducated. Very sad way to think.

And what "state's right"...were they wanting? :oops:

You can answer... HERE (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/war-between-states-302385/)

[Velvet]

...

[davefin]

I am lost here. What is the Political Flag referenced in the original post? If not a USA flag, just get over it, go back to bed and rest.

[rwfisher1969]

On a different issue or conflict and if they were my neighbor I would talk about it with them if I saw them outside. Knock on the door?? Not even a remote chance. I do understand your idea and 20 years ago maybe it would have worked for me but as of today that idea is a no go. I could ask you to go for me but I don't want to be disrespectful as you don't deserve that. Disrespect is what made me post in the first place but it wasn't the disrespect of a person it was the disrespect of The AMERICAN FLAG.

I don't want to stop someone from flying the other flags that are there now but the way I understand it THE AMERICAN FLAG is flown in the top position. My main QUESTION was who do I contact to have this corrected if in fact it is wrong. It seems wrong but I'm looking for help from someone who is in the know and confirmation that the AMERICAN FLAG should be present.

One of the replies I got so far the wildest one by far was was move back north. After reading my original post thats your answer? Are you the person with the flags I'm talking about? I did mention I was looking for guidance and was being constructive. I'm not trying to change anybody's feelings or view about the flags that are there now. What they think about those flags is not my business. The Flag that's missing is our business.

If the answer is that the flag configuration I mentioned is fine I guess I have to accept it. If someone know who to call please let me know.

Just because there is a flagpole does not mean that an American flag needs to be flown from it. Yes, if an American flag is present, it is to be above others.

[Boomer]

We are living in a time that should force us to think about who we really are — as individuals — to acknowledge our own truth, our personal code, what’s in there, deep down, telling us who we really are.

But it is also a time that often shows us who others really are.

So here we all are, with a lot to think about. - - - “Oh say can you see . . .”

[Dukester]

Go to dos.myflorida.com this is the Florida State Department with flag protocol and requirements. They also have a contact procedure via email or phone number. You should find out who to contact.

[l2ridehd]

And what "state's right"...were they wanting? :oops:

You can answer... HERE (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/war-between-states-302385/)

The North and the South were very divided in the late 1850's, very much like our political parties are today. Not really rational but still a fact.

The North was very industrial and the South was very much a farming area of the country so each wanted very different things from the Federal government.

States rights were only one of many reasons that divided the North and South. Slavery was one of those and a major one, but we seem to forget the others. Expansion was a big one (Texas) wanted to become an independent country as early as 1835 and again in 1857. Bleeding Kansas which was a very violent conflict about the legality of slavery and at that time in Kansas slavery was not legal. Abraham Lincoln was a president who had very divided support over most of the country. He won the 1860 presidential election without being on the ballot in ten Southern states. The right of secession. Some states wanted to leave because of slavery and some because they wanted to become a country of their own not beholding to the government. Seven states left to become independent and after some time 4 more states joined them.

I have never suggested slavery was not one of the main reasons for that war, but we just can't forget all the reasons and there were many. The country was very very divided back then very much like we are today. And everyone knows that today there are many many reasons why we are divided today. It was not then nor is it now a one issue reason.

[OlifOlif]

I know of someone who did this at another community located nearby. I understand that there was no conflicts! At last check, this was still going on! So there!

[ColdNoMore]

The North and the South were very divided in the late 1850's, very much like our political parties are today. Not really rational but still a fact.

The North was very industrial and the South was very much a farming area of the country so each wanted very different things from the Federal government.

States rights were only one of many reasons that divided the North and South. Slavery was one of those and a major one, but we seem to forget the others. Expansion was a big one (Texas) wanted to become an independent country as early as 1835 and again in 1857. Bleeding Kansas which was a very violent conflict about the legality of slavery and at that time in Kansas slavery was not legal. Abraham Lincoln was a president who had very divided support over most of the country. He won the 1860 presidential election without being on the ballot in ten Southern states. The right of secession. Some states wanted to leave because of slavery and some because they wanted to become a country of their own not beholding to the government. Seven states left to become independent and after some time 4 more states joined them.

I have never suggested slavery was not one of the main reasons for that war, but we just can't forget all the reasons and there were many. The country was very very divided back then very much like we are today. And everyone knows that today there are many many reasons why we are divided today. It was not then nor is it now a one issue reason.

Sorry, but that's simply the continued attempted revisionism...to try and obfuscate facts and the truth. :ohdear:

It is most definitely hate...NOT heritage.

[Nucky]

Go to dos.myflorida.com this is the Florida State Department with flag protocol and requirements. They also have a contact procedure via email or phone number. You should find out who to contact.

There you go another real answer. Thank You! :bigbow:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I don't think "garden gnomes" and flamingos and crosses and stars of David and other "lawn stuff" are "banned" for religious reason but only to keep them from multiplying like rabbits ending up as 150 "garden gnomes" and flamingos and other stuff on one person's lawn turning our neighborhoods into what looks like a novelty shop. :D

Oddly enough, those particular deed restrictions don't exist in the Historic section and I have yet to see a lawn with more than a few of any of the above "offending" items, let alone 150 of them.