Why do we as Sumter County taxpayers put up with this?

[neilbcox]

You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!

[neilbcox]

please post your thoughts in a business like manner! Be civil.

[golfing eagles]

You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!


1. So what???? Please show me a locality where the taxpayers do not pay for roads and infrastructure owned by the county. And what does a jointly owned hunting lodge have to do with anything, except maybe jealousy of their success

2. So how did you think the county was going to pay for all the new infrastructure?

3. I'm not sure a 4th town square was a quid pro quo in this deal, but again so what. Isn't it benefit to those newly developed areas south of route 44?

4. Business Parks and commercial developments add to the tax base. Again, you are hooked up on the concept of the "ultra rich"

5. So the Morse family is rich. So what? They were successful developers with a great concept that has earned them a great deal of money. That's what they do. They DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Better yet, why don't you put the time and effort into developing an even better community than The Villages and you too could be a billionaire

6. This just sounds like more class warfare babbling. Apparently you object to the county making deals that will improve infrastructure and bring new business to Sumter because they are making the deals with the "ultra rich". Here's a news flash---people receiving social services are not going to build an industrial park, or a shopping center, or the next Villages. Or would you be happier if the county raised taxes to give it away to "the poor".

[skip0358]

Yep they're making money. So what that's what they should do. It's a great place to live, plenty of activities and places to shop eat and play. As for the 25% increase it was only on a small portion of you taxes. Mine went up the cost of 1 drink out per week. As for the road construction somebody has to do it and somebody has to pay for it. Can't continue building without more roads & Rainey does a pretty good job. Don't know where you moved from but this is 100% better in all ways compared to where I lived & worked for 60+ years before this and my taxes were at least trible what I pay here. JMO

[njbchbum]

You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!

BWAHAHAHA! The roads/infrastructure are County property that simply permit access to and around the Villages and business park!

That 4th town center - so the developer agreed to build another entertainment facility for Sumter County and you're upset? LOL

25% tax increase? LOL How many years did Sumter County NOT have tax increases? Count your blessings instead of whining!

[neilbcox]

1. So what???? Please show me a locality where the taxpayers do not pay for roads and infrastructure owned by the county. And what does a jointly owned hunting lodge have to do with anything, except maybe jealousy of their success

2. So how did you think the county was going to pay for all the new infrastructure?

3. I'm not sure a 4th town square was a quid pro quo in this deal, but again so what. Isn't it benefit to those newly developed areas south of route 44?

4. Business Parks and commercial developments add to the tax base. Again, you are hooked up on the concept of the "ultra rich"

5. So the Morse family is rich. So what? They were successful developers with a great concept that has earned them a great deal of money. That's what they do. They DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Better yet, why don't you put the time and effort into developing an even better community than The Villages and you too could be a billionaire

6. This just sounds like more class warfare babbling. Apparently you object to the county making deals that will improve infrastructure and bring new business to Sumter because they are making the deals with the "ultra rich". Here's a news flash---people receiving social services are not going to build an industrial park, or a shopping center, or the next Villages. Or would you be happier if the county raised taxes to give it away to "the poor".
You missed my point! Up until July 2018 the developers paid for roads on the land they owned...now that cost has been transferred to the taxpayer. I own an international multi million dollar medical company so I am not jealous of people making money!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

OP I think some people either don't understand, or have chosen to approve, the double-dipping, cronyism, and political quagmire going on.

In most counties, towns, or other state municipalities, infrastructure and road maintenance is either done by the state or municipality itself (through their public works department) or they go out to bid for each project. There is rarely a 30-year contract awarded to contractors, ever, for anything. Many things can happen in the 30-years of a contractor's business that would either drive costs up, or result in delays that citizens are paying to have done in a timely manner.

The Morse family has cronies, friends, business partners - in the county government. This is known, no secret, no conspiracy, they talk about it live in meetings. The Morse family ALSO are partners with this particular contractor's owner.

The Morse family has basically made a deal with the county government to award a multi-billion-dollar-deal to their pal and partner, for a 30-year contract, thus completely bypassing the bidding process for the next 30 years. Considering that the Villages is the #1 largest developing real estate in this part of the state, they've basically shut out ALL competition in the region. Everyone involved is able to write their own check for this, and the taxpayer AND the Villages residents pay for it.

One issue is that the Villages residents ARE the taxpayers. So they get to pay twice. Once when they buy the house in the form of bonds (a part of which covers infrastructure in Sumter County), and once per year in the form of the increased taxes.


I feel that it's the 30-year aspect of this that's the trouble, combined with the fact that Village homeowners are already paying a portion of infrastructure costs by way of the bond. Not that Rainey is contracted to do the work. The contract duration terms is just totally inconsistent with the rest of the state, and the rest of the country, and reeks of political and financial payola.

[golfing eagles]

You missed my point! Up until July 2018 the developers paid for roads on the land they owned...now that cost has been transferred to the taxpayer. I own an international multi million dollar medical company so I am not jealous of people making money!

I'd like to see a source for your assertion that up until 7/2018 the developers paid for the roads. My understanding is that they were built and paid for by the county. If they weren't, we could pull all the red buttons out of the gates and make this a truly gated community.

[neilbcox]

The building of roads on private property has been the responsibility of the developers. Once completed the developers turns the private property roads over to the county. Also current county roads like 466A are upgraded by the county.

[ColdNoMore]

The building of roads on private property has been the responsibility of the developers. Once completed the developers turns the private property roads over to the county. Also current county roads like 466A are upgraded by the county.

One small correction.

They aren't just "turned over" to the county...they are sold to the county.

With guidelines and procedures established, that strongly favor the developer...in receiving the highest price possible. :oops:

[New Englander]

Is the OP's statements correct or not? I don't know what to believe anymore. :confused:

[Marathon Man]

I will not be voting for anyone who runs for office because they are angry.

This is the best place that I have ever lived. Of course you can look hard enough to find something to complain about - if that is what your life is about. As for me, I think that changes would more likely make our community less enjoyable, not more. If you want to call me a Kool-aide drinker, go ahead. I like Kool-aide. It is delicious and refreshing.

[Blackie]

If you want to call me a Kool-aide drinker, go ahead. I like Kool-aide. It is delicious and refreshing.

Kool-aide is also very very unhealthy!!!

[tophcfa]

Well, I just applied for a building permit in Sumter County for what is considered a small job (under $15,000 in improvements). A couple of weeks ago the permit would have cost $158, but today it costs $350. That is an increase of 121.5%. As if the slap in the face of a 25% property tax increase wasn't already enough! The greed of Sumter County appears to have no limits, vote the bums out of office! How could the replacements possibly be any worse at representing the counties tax payers?

[golfing eagles]

Well, I just applied for a building permit in Sumter County for what is considered a small job (under $15,000 in improvements). A couple of weeks ago the permit would have cost $158, but today it costs $350. That is an increase of 121.5%. As if the slap in the face of a 25% property tax increase wasn't already enough! The greed of Sumter County appears to have no limits, vote the bums out of office! How could the replacements possibly be any worse at representing the counties tax payers?

Hmmm. Taxes go up. Fees go up. The price of food goes up. What a shock:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bjeanj]

IMO, much ado about nothing.

[rustyp]

You missed my point! Up until July 2018 the developers paid for roads on the land they owned...now that cost has been transferred to the taxpayer. I own an international multi million dollar medical company so I am not jealous of people making money!

How much in taxes did your multinational company contribute to "our" society last year ? According to the IRS the average taxpayer pays 13.5% of income to federal government.

[Smalley]

The part about no competitive bids is worrisome. I admire the Morse family tremendously for creating the Villages with it's beautiful infrastructure and sparkling pools. They have added to the quality of life for thousands of over-55ers. They earned their fortune.

[Love2Swim]

You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!

Thank you. You have stated the facts. If people choose not to believe them, it is their problem. Some people just can't get their heads out of the sand. And we see a lot of that around here. I will not be voting for any of the present Commissioners. They lost me with the 25% tax increase - complete mismanagement.

[neilbcox]

Never said I was wealthy or a millionaire.

[neilbcox]

All my facts came directly from Sumter County...

[golfing eagles]

All my facts came directly from Sumter County...

Sumter County said they had a quid pro quo arrangement with the "ultra rich" developers to trade a 30 year contract for a 4th town square?????

[CWGUY]

:confused: I just pulled up the Sumter Co. Property Appraiser's Web Site Sumter County Property Appraiser - Joey Hooten - Bushnell, Florida - 352-569-6800 (http://www.sumterpa.com/)
You can go back to 2006 and look at tax info. I've been here full time since 2004.
On my 2006 tax bill the total millage rate (ad valorem) was 14.9660
On our 2019 (latest) tax bill the total ad valorem millage rate was 12.4001
That means our millage rate is down 2.5659 over the last 13 years.
I also want to add we paid $63.79 less in Sumter Co. property taxes in 2019 than we did in 2006. AND $255.92 less in total ad valorem taxes.

CAN ANY "SUMTER COUNTY VOTER" PLEASE EXPLAIN AGAIN WHY I SHOULD BE MAD? WHY I SHOULD WANT TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR COUNTY IS RUN? CHANGE WHO RUNS THE COUNTY? :shrug:

I really (sorry) don't want to hear from people who don't live here..... this is our home..... not our golf vacation destination. I know you might be tax payers and home owners here and entitled to your opinions..... I just don't (sorry really) want to here them. Thank you for letting me rant. :)

[neilbcox]

It is not only in the July 10, 2018 commissioners monthly minutes but in the actual contract that the developers signed! All available at the Sumter County office

[Topspinmo]

Hmmm. Taxes go up. Fees go up. The price of food goes up. What a shock:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Not shocked, we know nothing ever goes down when any form of government involved.:super:

[Topspinmo]

I am glad developers built out in my district. My opinion on taxes, Sumter County has had the lowest tax rate of the three counties for while, about time they pay their far share.

[Aw Man]

It is not only in the July 10, 2018 commissioners monthly minutes but in the actual contract that the developers signed! All available at the Sumter County office

And the whole deal was made public at the time in both print and online news outlets. There was nothing secretive about it.
It was and is a good development deal for Sumter County and the City of Wildwood that will provide a significantly increasing tax base for both for years to come.
And the resulting recent “increased” Sumter County property tax millage rate of 6.7 is 67% of what it was 20 years ago! Yes, the millage rate was 10.0 in years 1999 and 2000.
Yes, the “poor” property owners in Sumter County are now paying significantly less tax per $1,000 of property value than they were in any year between 1999 and 2012!!
And an immediate benefit to Villagers as a result of the development of new homes south of 44 is that sales value of pre-owned homes north of 44 have skyrocketed over the past 3 years.
Geez, give it a break. That development deal was a good one for all of us.

[Marathon Man]

I don't remember reading or hearing about any issues with county comminsioners before the tax increase. After, it seems they are all corrupt and need to be voted out.

So, can someone detail reasons why they are not doing the job they were elected to do? Don't talk about taxes. We have all heard it.

[tophcfa]

:confused: I just pulled up the Sumter Co. Property Appraiser's Web Site Sumter County Property Appraiser - Joey Hooten - Bushnell, Florida - 352-569-6800 (http://www.sumterpa.com/)
You can go back to 2006 and look at tax info. I've been here full time since 2004.
On my 2006 tax bill the total millage rate (ad valorem) was 14.9660
On our 2019 (latest) tax bill the total ad valorem millage rate was 12.4001
That means our millage rate is down 2.5659 over the last 13 years.
I also want to add we paid $63.79 less in Sumter Co. property taxes in 2019 than we did in 2006. AND $255.92 less in total ad valorem taxes.

CAN ANY "SUMTER COUNTY VOTER" PLEASE EXPLAIN AGAIN WHY I SHOULD BE MAD? WHY I SHOULD WANT TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR COUNTY IS RUN? CHANGE WHO RUNS THE COUNTY? :shrug:

I really (sorry) don't want to hear from people who don't live here..... this is our home..... not our golf vacation destination. I know you might be tax payers and home owners here and entitled to your opinions..... I just don't (sorry really) want to here them. Thank you for letting me rant. :)

The above argument holds no water for those who bought homes relatively recently and did not enjoy years of low taxes. People who bought thinking their taxes were going to be X, had no idea their taxes would become X & 25% almost immediately. I expected reasonable tax increases of a couple percent per year, not 25% in one year.

[CWGUY]

The above argument holds no water for those who bought homes relatively recently and did not enjoy years of low taxes. People who bought thinking their taxes were going to be X, had no idea their taxes would become X & 25% almost immediately. I expected reasonable tax increases of a couple percent per year, not 25% in one year.

:) I've heard that argument and understand. But you said "The greed of Sumter County appears to have no limits, vote the bums out of office!" I don't see that happening. I'm better off now than I was 15 years ago when I left N.Y.S. You can vote the bums out of office if that's how you feel. :ho:

[skip0358]

It was NOT a 25% increase across the board period. Pull your last couple of years tax bills only a small portion went up and it was not 25%. Mine went up about $200 total big deal first time since 2009.

[Double Eagle]

A couple things here. I am doing my research as others in here have suggested I do before I purchase.

I thought the bond was to pay for the infrastructure here. Is it not?

Either the taxes in Sumter went up 25% or either they did not. I have read many stories/articles saying they did.

[eyc234]

:confused: I just pulled up the Sumter Co. Property Appraiser's Web Site Sumter County Property Appraiser - Joey Hooten - Bushnell, Florida - 352-569-6800 (http://www.sumterpa.com/)
You can go back to 2006 and look at tax info. I've been here full time since 2004.
On my 2006 tax bill the total millage rate (ad valorem) was 14.9660
On our 2019 (latest) tax bill the total ad valorem millage rate was 12.4001
That means our millage rate is down 2.5659 over the last 13 years.
I also want to add we paid $63.79 less in Sumter Co. property taxes in 2019 than we did in 2006. AND $255.92 less in total ad valorem taxes.

CAN ANY "SUMTER COUNTY VOTER" PLEASE EXPLAIN AGAIN WHY I SHOULD BE MAD? WHY I SHOULD WANT TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR COUNTY IS RUN? CHANGE WHO RUNS THE COUNTY? :shrug:

I really (sorry) don't want to hear from people who don't live here..... this is our home..... not our golf vacation destination. I know you might be tax payers and home owners here and entitled to your opinions..... I just don't (sorry really) want to here them. Thank you for letting me rant. :)

:clap2: :mademyday:

[tuccillo]

Among other things, the bond pays for the amenities such as the executive golf courses, guard shacks at the gates, and rec centers.

The Sumter "tax" bill actually has 5 components: county tax, school tax, SWFWMD (water management), fire department, and maintenance. Also on the "tax" bill is your bond payment (interest and principal) but I will exclude that from further discussion since many people choose to pay it off and will have a value of zero for their bond payment. The county tax went up about 25% (actually the millage rate increased by about 25%) and the county tax is about about half of the total "tax". The other 4 components didn't significantly change so for many people their "tax" bill went up about 13%.

If you still have a bond payment and computed the percentage change in your "tax" bill from the previous year then the percentage change would be less than 13% since the fixed bond payment is a pretty good percentage of the total "tax" bill.

Further complicating the computation of the percentage increase in the "tax" bill is the fact that some people had a change in the assessed value of their home so their county tax may have gone up by more than 25% (and the school tax would have also increased).

A couple things here. I am doing my research as others in here have suggested I do before I purchase.

I thought the bond was to pay for the infrastructure here. Is it not?

Either the taxes in Sumter went up 25% or either they did not. I have read many stories/articles saying they did.

[Double Eagle]

Among other things, the bond pays for the amenities such as the executive golf courses, guard shacks at the gates, and rec centers.

The Sumter "tax" bill actually has 5 components: county tax, school tax, SWFWMD (water management), fire department, and maintenance. Also on the "tax" bill is your bond payment (interest and principal) but I will exclude that from further discussion since many people choose to pay it off and will have a value of zero for their bond payment. The county tax went up about 25% (actually the millage rate increased by about 25%) and the county tax is about about half of the total "tax". The other 4 components didn't significantly change so for many people their "tax" bill went up about 13%.

If you still have a bond payment and computed the percentage change in your "tax" bill from the previous year then the percentage change would be less than 13% since the fixed bond payment is a pretty good percentage of the total "tax" bill.

Further complicating the computation of the percentage increase in the "tax" bill is the fact that some people had a change in the assessed value of their home so their county tax may have gone up by more than 25% (and the school tax would have also increased).

Thank you for the tax explanation.

Others have said that the bond does not pay for things such as golf courses, swimming pools, etc. Isn't that what the amenities fee is for? As such, what is in essence a tax free municipal bond pays for private golf courses and such?

Thanks again. Just trying to learn.

[tuccillo]

The amenities fee (about $155 per month for most homes and paid to the CDDs) pays to maintain the amenities (executive golf courses, rec centers with pools., etc.). The bond paid for their initial construction plus other infrastructure. The other golf courses (the 18 hole championship courses) are owned and run by the Developer and are not funded by the amenities fee.

Thank you for the tax explanation.

Others have said that the bond does not pay for things such as golf courses, swimming pools, etc. Isn't that what the amenities fee is for? As such, what is in essence a tax free municipal bond pays for private golf courses and such?

Thanks again. Just trying to learn.

[asianthree]

A couple things here. I am doing my research as others in here have suggested I do before I purchase.

I thought the bond was to pay for the infrastructure here. Is it not?

Either the taxes in Sumter went up 25% or either they did not. I have read many stories/articles saying they did.

Our taxes went up by $800 from last year.

[Love2Swim]

It burns me that my tax dollars are funding the new infrastructure the Developer is building for future residents. That is just WRONG!

[Maryland04]

You go GOLFING EAGLE, Love it, needs to be said

[crash]

1. So what???? Please show me a locality where the taxpayers do not pay for roads and infrastructure owned by the county. And what does a jointly owned hunting lodge have to do with anything, except maybe jealousy of their success

2. So how did you think the county was going to pay for all the new infrastructure?

3. I'm not sure a 4th town square was a quid pro quo in this deal, but again so what. Isn't it benefit to those newly developed areas south of route 44?

4. Business Parks and commercial developments add to the tax base. Again, you are hooked up on the concept of the "ultra rich"

5. So the Morse family is rich. So what? They were successful developers with a great concept that has earned them a great deal of money. That's what they do. They DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Better yet, why don't you put the time and effort into developing an even better community than The Villages and you too could be a billionaire

6. This just sounds like more class warfare babbling. Apparently you object to the county making deals that will improve infrastructure and bring new business to Sumter because they are making the deals with the "ultra rich". Here's a news flash---people receiving social services are not going to build an industrial park, or a shopping center, or the next Villages. Or would you be happier if the county raised taxes to give it away to "the poor".

I don’t care if the Morse family makes money but why should the tax payers subsidize them. There would be no development if there were no roads built so the developer should pay for that.

In most areas the developer pays for the infrastructure (roads) by developer fees these run about $20,000 per home. The Morse’s pay $900.

The entire counties taxes went up because now the tax payers are paying for this cost instead of the developer. This cost is usually built into the price of the home.

[crash]

Thank you. You have stated the facts. If people choose not to believe them, it is their problem. Some people just can't get their heads out of the sand. And we see a lot of that around here. I will not be voting for any of the present Commissioners. They lost me with the 25% tax increase - complete mismanagement.

I agree get rid of all of them but the tax increase is here to stay because of the 30 year contract.

[Singerlady]

please post your thoughts in a business like manner! Be civil.
Civil enough for me.

[golfing eagles]

I don’t care if the Morse family makes money but why should the tax payers subsidize them. There would be no development if there were no roads built so the developer should pay for that.

In most areas the developer pays for the infrastructure (roads) by developer fees these run about $20,000 per home. The Morse’s pay $900.

The entire counties taxes went up because now the tax payers are paying for this cost instead of the developer. This cost is usually built into the price of the home.

Finally, finally someone has hit the nail on the head (with the possible exception of that $900 number which comes from where?).

In most areas of the country the infrastructure in a new development is paid for by the developer, which of course means the new homeowner. So what is the difference to a new home buyer in TV of a 20K bond or 20K in tax----zero. What's the difference to a lifelong resident of rural Sumter Co. that owns a third generation home paid off long ago---probably pretty large. In essence, it is not the taxpayers subsidizing the "ultra rich" developers, it is all the taxpayers of the county subsidizing mostly northern transplants inside the Villages.
That being said, the taxpayers of the Villages subsidize other projects within Sumter Co. Does anyone doubt that TV has been a miracle for the county, which at one point was the poorest county in Florida? Remember, this entire thread started with the OP babbling on about the "ultra rich" developers. IMHO, the whole country could use more "ultra rich" developers that build what we have here.

[wirenail444]

The individual was very civil, what is your problem?

[diva1]

Infrastructure has always been paid through impact fees paid by the developer/builder. These were lowered by the hand-picked commissioners this past year and loaded into a 25% tax increase. You NY people that keep saying everything is great here because in NY it is more sound nuts to me. Since when is NY the model we all should aspire to? If you like the Morses deciding 100% of what goes on in Sumter county keep the current yes-men in office. I think it is time for new blood and new thinking.

[dewilson58]

It's funny/sad all the whining after-the-fact. The budget process and information was available to the public months prior to the vote and raising of the property taxes. If you are so upset about the tax increase and the funding of certain project........where were you during the process ALL MOST A YEAR AGO???? You decided not to be involved.



Blame yourself if you are not happy.


:ho:

[Dilligas]

The developer had a vision about forty years ago and has struck to that vision and improved it along the way. Show me one other developer with the same foresight. As a business, that foresight must make a profit. Please stop with the political theatrics on the 24% tax increase. If you checked into it, the taxes basically remained the same for 7 + years, and remain less than most nicely developed areas in the country. Places like Sun City Center wish that their developer was like ours instead of Del Webb. So many places in the US are run by politicians that don’t have the foresight and stick to it that we have, and most of those places are bankrupt or have taxes multiple times higher than we have. You moved here for what was built and provided by the developer (including low taxes). You said you owned a multi million dollar company.....did you run it or did you let the people in your community run it?

[Davelinda91]

The cost to live in TV isn’t as affordable as its advertised. It’s definitely getting more for the wealthy. A 350K (1856 sq ft) house in Fenny comes with a $7000 tax and bond bill. The Morse family have the wealth to live happier ever after. Mr. Schwartz dream is quietly slipping away.

[Marathon Man]

OP I think some people either don't understand, or have chosen to approve, the double-dipping, cronyism, and political quagmire going on.

...



Nope. I completely undestand. And, I have chosen to form my opinion based upon my own understanding of the facts.

Those with weak arguments resort to insult.

[Marathon Man]

The cost to live in TV isn’t as affordable as its advertised. It’s definitely getting more for the wealthy. A 350K (1856 sq ft) house in Fenny comes with a $7000 tax and bond bill. The Morse family have the wealth to live happier ever after. Mr. Schwartz dream is quietly slipping away.

Mr. Schwartz dream of selling property to retiring persons is alive and much larger than he could have ever envisioned. Imagine the pride you would feel if you son took over your business and expanding it over and over again.

[Sunflower33]

The interesting thing is several of these commissioners are fello villagers.

[VApeople]

A 350K (1856 sq ft) house in Fenny comes with a $7000 tax and bond bill.

If you pay off your bond, your taxes will be less than ours were in Virginia, which is not a high-tax state compared to most others.

[rjgnj321]

Sounds like a campaign rant to me. Are you running for a County Commission Seat?
Every community I have lived in we all paid for these improvements. And, good for the Morses. They have earned every penny they make and have provided us with a wonderful lifestyle


You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!

[golfing eagles]

The interesting thing is several of these commissioners are fello villagers.

How so? Population of Sumter Co., 128,754. Population of the Sumter portion of TV, at least half that. Would expect even more Villagers on the commission

[toeser]

1. So what???? Please show me a locality where the taxpayers do not pay for roads and infrastructure owned by the county. And what does a jointly owned hunting lodge have to do with anything, except maybe jealousy of their success

2. So how did you think the county was going to pay for all the new infrastructure?

3. I'm not sure a 4th town square was a quid pro quo in this deal, but again so what. Isn't it benefit to those newly developed areas south of route 44?

4. Business Parks and commercial developments add to the tax base. Again, you are hooked up on the concept of the "ultra rich"

5. So the Morse family is rich. So what? They were successful developers with a great concept that has earned them a great deal of money. That's what they do. They DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Better yet, why don't you put the time and effort into developing an even better community than The Villages and you too could be a billionaire

6. This just sounds like more class warfare babbling. Apparently you object to the county making deals that will improve infrastructure and bring new business to Sumter because they are making the deals with the "ultra rich". Here's a news flash---people receiving social services are not going to build an industrial park, or a shopping center, or the next Villages. Or would you be happier if the county raised taxes to give it away to "the poor".

Seriously, you do not see a problem with county officials signing off on a 30-year no bid deal where the developer is in full control? That's one bad deal for taxpayers.

As to your "increasing the tax base" argument, my life's experience tells me that is totally bogus. It's like a dog chasing it's tail. New development means costs for new roads, new water supplies, new sewers, new schools, etc. I have lived in other fast growing communities and I have NEVER seen my taxes go down as a result of that fast growth.

[golfing eagles]

Seriously, you do not see a problem with county officials signing off on a 30-year no bid deal where the developer is in full control? That's one bad deal for taxpayers.

As to your "increasing the tax base" argument, my life's experience tells me that is totally bogus. It's like a dog chasing it's tail. New development means costs for new roads, new water supplies, new sewers, new schools, etc. I have lived in other fast growing communities and I have NEVER seen my taxes go down as a result of that fast growth.

Seriously, no. Politics is politics and wherever you go, there is someone in charge behind the scenes. It's just more obvious in TV

And as far as your bogus life experience goes (oops, got that backwards, Freudian slip), just go to a few posts ago and you'll see that taxes went down, right here in River City.

[Miguel 1952]

The individual was very civil, what is your problem?

I agree the OP was very civil with his opinion. But, some people think too highly of themselves.

[graciegirl]

You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!

I do not agree with your post.

I have lived here for better than a dozen years and have observed the way the Morse family maintain and support the community. Yes, the Morse family are both successful and rich. That does not mean they are greedy or unprincipled.

I believe this "campaign" is to get a group of political people in power that I do not support. Many on this thread have agreed with me and many are trustworthy and long term posters who have excellent antennae, and better yet, common sense.

[golfing eagles]

I agree the OP was very civil with his opinion. But, some people think too highly of themselves.

I don't see the total "civility" in implying the developers make shady deals at the taxpayers expense and get away with it because they are "ultra rich" and hang out with other "ultra rich" people. I'm also confused by the OP's position that he made millions running his business, but has an objection to the developers making millions running their business. It just sounds a bit disingenuous to me, IMHO.

[WindyCityzen]

You should send this to major newspapers in Florida ... and to the US Attorney for this district. They can determine the legitimacy of these statements.

[Crazyladycruz]

I’m a little new to TV, is it only TV getting their taxes raised or is ALL of Sumter County residents getting their taxes raised?? Where are those people? Are t they complaining?

[golfing eagles]

I’m a little new to TV, is it only TV getting their taxes raised or is ALL of Sumter County residents getting their taxes raised?? Where are those people? Are t they complaining?

Just the county part of the tax bill was raised, and for all of Sumter county. The areas outside the Villages are primarily Oxford, Wildwood, and south to Bushnell. No idea if they are complaining, but based on the response from Villagers, probably. After all, our newspaper only reports happy news.

[ColdNoMore]

I agree the OP was very civil with his opinion. But, some people think too highly of themselves.

Double ditto here. :ohdear:

[Sharfrfla]

Thank u for this detailed info. I knew about some of this happening but not everything. I will forward this message along. Again thank you.

[radarnet]

I don’t like the fact that Rainey has no competition. That’s not right.
NOT good business!

[golfing eagles]

I don’t like the fact that Rainey has no competition. That’s not right.
NOT good business!

It's GREAT business (for Rainey):1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

It's funny/sad all the whining after-the-fact. The budget process and information was available to the public months prior to the vote and raising of the property taxes. If you are so upset about the tax increase and the funding of certain project........where were you during the process ALL MOST A YEAR AGO???? You decided not to be involved.



Blame yourself if you are not happy.


:ho:

I contacted every county commissioner involved in the process via e-mail, some never responded and others responded with the exact same canned response. The public meetings were packed and the opinions of every tax payer opposed to the massive tax increase were brushed off. The same canned explanation for the massive tax increase were simply repeated over and over. The process was a total hoax as the outcome was pre-determined. That’s what makes this very sad, because now people won’t bother to get involved in the future now that it has been proven to them that there is no real process.

[neilbcox]

Please reread my post. I never stated that I have made millions! I was replying to someone that attacked me about hating rich people.

People speak about Sumter County not having tax increases for many years. With adding over 60,000 homes to the county taxpayers role there was never a need! With the estimated 65,000 new homes to be built in the near future south of CR44 why did the commissioners increase tax rates. Maybe many of us can clearly afford to pay the increase...BUT is it fair for all the poor people living outside TV in Sumter County to pay for TV infrastructure...this is a big deal.

It just seems since the untimely death of Gary Morse, who was a great visionary, the rules have changed!

Someone here has stated if I had a problem with what the commissioners were doing I should have become involved! I did try to get involved like many other villagers but we where locked out from the commissioners meeting at Rohan Rec center.

I love living in the Villages! It is time to open our eyes and minds that we fully know how the rules are changing! That was the main purpose of my post!

[golfing eagles]

Please reread my post. I never stated that I have made millions! I was replying to someone that attacked me about hating rich people.

People speak about Sumter County not having tax increases for many years. With adding over 60,000 homes to the county taxpayers role there was never a need! With the estimated 65,000 new homes to be built in the near future south of CR44 why did the commissioners increase tax rates. Maybe many of us can clearly afford to pay the increase...BUT is it fair for all the poor people living outside TV in Sumter County to pay for TV infrastructure...this is a big deal.

It just seems since the untimely death of Gary Morse, who was a great visionary, the rules have changed!

Someone here has stated if I had a problem with what the commissioners were doing I should have become involved! I did try to get involved like many other villagers but we where locked out from the commissioners meeting at Rohan Rec center.

I love living in the Villages! It is time to open our eyes and minds that we fully know how the rules are changing! That was the main purpose of my post!

Well, I apologize. That wasn't the message I got from the OP.
I'm sure you realize that the contractors for the infrastructure get paid now, the 60,000 homes start paying tax later. Very possible that in the future tax rates will decrease, just as they have in the past

[Bogie Shooter]

Thank u for this detailed info. I knew about some of this happening but not everything. I will forward this message along. Again thank you.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/tax-increase-301315/?highlight=sumter+increase
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sumter-county-taxes-300988/?highlight=sumter+increase
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sumter-county-forging-ahead-reduce-impact-fees-299884/?highlight=sumter+increase
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sneaky-tax-appraiser-watching-us-299743/?highlight=sumter+increase
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sumter-tax-issue-299227/?highlight=sumter+increase

[Daddymac]

I have 40 years in Construction, and know for a fact, If you don’t have to put work out to bid,,,
Someone in the Pockets,, AND THAT IS A FACT !!!

[OhioBuckeye]

Well, you probably won't be able to do anything about the raise in taxes, complaining here. You'll just have to suck it up & pay them or move. Complaining isn't going to make them feel sorry for you. If you want to live in TV & can't afford to pay the 1 drink tax raise, cut back on something else. You're not going to beat City Hall !

[New Englander]

please post your thoughts in a business like manner! Be civil.

This is a forum, not a business!

[New Englander]

It's funny/sad all the whining after-the-fact. The budget process and information was available to the public months prior to the vote and raising of the property taxes. If you are so upset about the tax increase and the funding of certain project........where were you during the process ALL MOST A YEAR AGO???? You decided not to be involved.



Blame yourself if you are not happy.


:ho:

There were many people that protested at that time. Their concerns fell on deaf ears.

[New Englander]

The interesting thing is several of these commissioners are fello villagers.

You're right. That is very interesting.

[theruizs]

If you are that concerned, live elsewhere. It was clearly obvious to anyone buying here that they would pay a premium for the home PLUS a bond (or remaining bond if buying previously owned), plus other monthly and annual fees. Even in 2012 when we bought, the taxes were higher than anywhere else we were considering. So if knowing that you still bought here, why complain about it all now? This may not be the best community for people retiring on a tight budget, but other amenities make it really attractive. So the family that thought it up made a few billion, that’s America. I’m not saying there may not be some things taken advantage of by the developers who have the influence to do it, but if that really concerns you I think you will be much less frustrated living elsewhere than trying to change things here. Best of luck either way.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If you are that concerned, live elsewhere. It was clearly obvious to anyone buying here that they would pay a premium for the home PLUS a bond (or remaining bond if buying previously owned), plus other monthly and annual fees. Even in 2012 when we bought, the taxes were higher than anywhere else we were considering. So if knowing that you still bought here, why complain about it all now? This may not be the best community for people retiring on a tight budget, but other amenities make it really attractive. So the family that thought it up made a few billion, that’s America. I’m not saying there may not be some things taken advantage of by the developers who have the influence to do it, but if that really concerns you I think you will be much less frustrated living elsewhere than trying to change things here. Best of luck either way.

There are people who moved in only in the last 2-3 years, who bought because of the promise of low taxes, an "almost-paid-off" or fully paid off bond, low maintenance and amenity fees, and tons of amenities and other perks of living in the vicinity (such as the free entertainment in the squares, which is a perk of living in the vicinity and not an amenity).

They've only been here a couple of years and then BOOM - they discover their maintenance fees don't really cover all the maintenance. Their amenities are not impossible, but certainly less carefree to participate in and enjoy, when the snowbirds come down. The promise of an on-premise hospital and emergency facilities are darkened by the hospital rating and high turnover, which was only announced in the last year. The taxes have increased for the first time in 9 years - meaning, the previous 9 years showed a trend, and there was no reason for new homeowners to think this was going to change the year after they moved in. They had no reason to think they needed to prepare immediately, for next year's tax increase - because the trend showed there was NO tax increase for the past 9 years.

This doesn't affect me on a personal level, since I don't live in Sumter county. But it would have, if I had chosen a different area of the Villages to live in, when we moved in last year. In fact - when we purchased our house, it was 2 days after the increase in amenity fees. If we had closed 2 days prior, we would not have had to pay the increase. So even that piddly little $3 or $5/month change - affected us directly. Again, something that did NOT happen every year, and so there was no expectation that it would - until we were put into a situation where we had to decide to move to our retirement home a couple of years before retirement.

For us, personally, it is a non-issue. But for hundreds who moved here because it was advertised one way - and everything changed before they had a chance to prepare for it - it is absolutely an issue.

[Polar Bear]

...for hundreds who moved here because it was advertised one way - and everything changed before they had a chance to prepare for it - it is absolutely an issue.
Gross exaggeration of the big picture imo.

[dewilson58]

There were many people that protested at that time. Their concerns fell on deaf ears.




That was at the tax increase meetings. That was too late, the budget was already approved months ago. Where were the protest during the budget process??? That is where the impact is made.

[dewilson58]

I contacted every county commissioner involved in the process via e-mail, some never responded and others responded with the exact same canned response. The public meetings were packed and the opinions of every tax payer opposed to the massive tax increase were brushed off. The same canned explanation for the massive tax increase were simply repeated over and over. The process was a total hoax as the outcome was pre-determined. That’s what makes this very sad, because now people won’t bother to get involved in the future now that it has been proven to them that there is no real process.




You missed the opportunity for involvement......the expenditures are determined during the budget process. The budget was approved months before your emails were sent.



The process was "pre-determined" because the county had to cover the approved budget expenditures.


:ohdear:

[LadyPenO]

Your/our bonds pay for the infrastructure and roads in the initial building phase of The Villages. Eventually roads are turned over to the county for maintaining.

[dewilson58]

I have 40 years in Construction, and know for a fact, If you don’t have to put work out to bid,,,
Someone in the Pockets,, AND THAT IS A FACT !!!




Not true.


There are mutually beneficial partnerships created in construction, as in most industries, if you know how.


:ho:

[Bogie Shooter]

Gross exaggeration of the big picture imo.

I agree.....

[tophcfa]

You missed the opportunity for involvement......the expenditures are determined during the budget process. The budget was approved months before your emails were sent.



The process was "pre-determined" because the county had to cover the approved budget expenditures.


:ohdear:

So, then why did they wast everyones time having public hearings? Public hearings are supposed to be for tax payers to have input in the process and help shape the final outcome. Not to be repeatedly read talking points justifying a pre-determined outcome.

[dewilson58]

So, then why did they wast everyones time having public hearings? Public hearings are supposed to be for tax payers to have input in the process and help shape the final outcome. Not to be repeatedly read talking points justifying a pre-determined outcome.




To give input, not have input.

[New Englander]

That was at the tax increase meetings. That was too late, the budget was already approved months ago. Where were the protest during the budget process??? That is where the impact is made.

Be honest Mr Helpful. Would that have made any difference at all?

[dewilson58]

Be honest Mr Helpful. Would that have made any difference at all?




It did up North, have not done it here.


Jus trying to inform where impact has opportunity.



:thumbup:

[tophcfa]

To give input, not have input.

??????, not a helpful response?

[FriscoKid]

Why do I put up with it?

1. I am not a voting taxpayer as I am not a full-time resident (yet) of Sumter County.

2. In general, I am favorable toward people who build great products. i.e. profit from their efforts.

3. I understood (mostly) going into a home purchase in The Villages how the CDD structure and taxes/maintenance fees/amenity fees were structured and decided before I bought that it was acceptable to me.

[PugMom]

please post your thoughts in a business like manner! Be civil.
thank you~!

[PugMom]

That was at the tax increase meetings. That was too late, the budget was already approved months ago. Where were the protest during the budget process??? That is where the impact is made.
New Englander needs to remember how much we had to pay in taxes up there. when you're hit up for over 9 grand a year on a 2 bedroom cape, uhhh,..it looks darn good down here:coolsmiley:

[dewilson58]

New Englander needs to remember how much we had to pay in taxes up there. when you're hit up for over 9 grand a year on a 2 bedroom cape, uhhh,..it looks darn good down here:coolsmiley:


:clap2:

Not only up North..........but even down here.



How does our taxes look compared to other Florida counties?? AND How did out taxes look over the last ten years???

[eyc234]

Why do I put up with it?

1. I am not a voting taxpayer as I am not a full-time resident (yet) of Sumter County.

2. In general, I am favorable toward people who build great products. i.e. profit from their efforts.

3. I understood (mostly) going into a home purchase in The Villages how the CDD structure and taxes/maintenance fees/amenity fees were structured and decided before I bought that it was acceptable to me.

:bigbow: :clap2: :a040:

[Villages Kahuna]

Everyone has the right to express their feelings and beliefs, however one-sided they might be. So I guess I’ll state mine.

The developers of The Villages, now in the fourth generation, have done a magnificent job in building our ‘favorite home town’. They have maintained and even improved the homes that they’ve built and sold and the recreational facilities so integral to our lifestyle. In this fourth decade of the development the family has made a lot of money. Mark Morse, Jennifer Parr and Tracy Matthews, Gary Morse’s three children, have all been included on Forbes lust of billionaires. In my opinion they have earned every bit of their wealth. And they continue to work every day to make The Villages even better.

Thanks for your opinion. I wanted to share mine.

[Love2Swim]

New Englander needs to remember how much we had to pay in taxes up there. when you're hit up for over 9 grand a year on a 2 bedroom cape, uhhh,..it looks darn good down here:coolsmiley:

Many of us paid more up north. That is not the issue. The question is - are the taxes we pay in The Villages comparable to the taxes people pay in Central Florida? Compare apples to apples. The other issue is that the county is giving a sweetheart deal to the Developers at taxpayers expense.

[Marathon Man]

Many of us paid more up north. That is not the issue. The question is - are the taxes we pay in The Villages comparable to the taxes people pay in Central Florida? Compare apples to apples. The other issue is that the county is giving a sweetheart deal to the Developers at taxpayers expense.

Agreed. What is the answer?

[Rosebud2020]

. . . and then there are those who simply don't care. They don't care that Kool Aide is unhealthy and don't care about much else, either. They are of the ilk that if someone doesn't like something here, they are whiners and complainers about everything and should move. They don't care that we live in their area of born and bred Florida Crackers. They resent those of us who have moved here and resent it when we find out about what's probably going on which they desperately try to cover up. Remember, it's the good 'ole boys who have been here and in charge since time immemorial and they ain't giving up all the goodies they've become accustomed to receiving. It's time to regroup and to vote intelligently in the next election.

[Rosebud2020]

Hmmm. Taxes go up. Fees go up. The price of food goes up. What a shock:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Yes, prices do go up on most things, but a 121% increase??? Sorry, but your thinking is a little strange. That kind of increase is, indeed, more than a little over the top!

[Bogie Shooter]

. . . and then there are those who simply don't care. They don't care that Kool Aide is unhealthy and don't care about much else, either. They are of the ilk that if someone doesn't like something here, they are whiners and complainers about everything and should move. They don't care that we live in their area of born and bred Florida Crackers. They resent those of us who have moved here and resent it when we find out about what's probably going on which they desperately try to cover up. Remember, it's the good 'ole boys who have been here and in charge since time immemorial and they ain't giving up all the goodies they've become accustomed to receiving. It's time to regroup and to vote intelligently in the next election.
:what:

[golfing eagles]

Yes, prices do go up on most things, but a 121% increase??? Sorry, but your thinking is a little strange. That kind of increase is, indeed, more than a little over the top!

The tax increase was an average of 13%. Get real.

[Advogado]

Every time a Sumter County taxpayer pays his tax bill, he is, in reality, writing a check to the Developer for the amount of the tax increase.

[Advogado]

Hmmm. Taxes go up. Fees go up. The price of food goes up. What a shock:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

The shock is that the increased taxes are, in reality, going into the Developer's pocket, since they were imposed instead of increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. Why do you suppose the County Commissioners did this?

[Advogado]

Many of us paid more up north. That is not the issue. The question is - are the taxes we pay in The Villages comparable to the taxes people pay in Central Florida? Compare apples to apples. The other issue is that the county is giving a sweetheart deal to the Developers at taxpayers expense.
I would respectfully disagree with you. The real question, I would contend, is the following: Why did the County Commissioners increase residents' property taxes by 25% instead of increasing the Developer's suspiciously low impact fee????

[Advogado]

The tax increase was an average of 13%. Get real.

Please check your math, the subject is county taxes, not total property taxes.

[Advogado]

Everyone has the right to express their feelings and beliefs, however one-sided they might be. So I guess I’ll state mine.

The developers of The Villages, now in the fourth generation, have done a magnificent job in building our ‘favorite home town’. They have maintained and even improved the homes that they’ve built and sold and the recreational facilities so integral to our lifestyle. In this fourth decade of the development the family has made a lot of money. Mark Morse, Jennifer Parr and Tracy Matthews, Gary Morse’s three children, have all been included on Forbes lust of billionaires. In my opinion they have earned every bit of their wealth. And they continue to work every day to make The Villages even better.

Thanks for your opinion. I wanted to share mine.

The point is, why should they be getting corporate welfare from the taxpayers of Sumter County? The County Commissioners should have increased the Developer's suspiciously low impact fee instead of the residents' taxes in order to pay for the Developer's infrastructure.

[Advogado]

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!

Actually, November is too late to vote out Butler, Burgess, and Printz. In Sumter County, whoever wins the August 18 Republican primary will win the November election. So mark your calendar accordingly.

[Advogado]

New Englander needs to remember how much we had to pay in taxes up there. when you're hit up for over 9 grand a year on a 2 bedroom cape, uhhh,..it looks darn good down here:coolsmiley:

What we paid up north is totally irrelevant. The question is why did we have a massive tax increase here in order to preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee??? If you look into that question, the answer becomes pretty obvious.

[Marathon Man]

The point is, why should they be getting corporate welfare from the taxpayers of Sumter County? The County Commissioners should have increased the Developer's suspiciously low impact fee instead of the residents' taxes in order to pay for the Developer's infrastructure.

What are the inpact fees in other counties? Does anyone know? I have not seen these numbers in any of the posts in any of the social media sites that I visit.

Those of you who believe that the fees are wrong, please provide some information to support your statement.

[Marathon Man]

Corporations have benefitted from tax breaks for many years in all parts of the country.
Is it right? Maybe, maybe not.
Is it different from what is happening here? Maybe, maybe not.
Do I like it? Maybe, maybe not.
Am I informed enough to know that corruption is the cause? No.
Am I going to knee jerk react and vote for someone that I know nothing about? No.
Will I vote for someone who changes parties in order to run in a primary race? No.

[Advogado]

What are the inpact fees in other counties? Does anyone know? I have not seen these numbers in any of the posts in any of the social media sites that I visit.

Those of you who believe that the fees are wrong, please provide some information to support your statement.

Glad to oblige.

Collier County, where the Commissioners are not in the pocket of developers: around $20,000/house in a retirement community versus $901 for the Developer here (more than 20 times more than the Developer pays). Regular builders in Sumter County: $2,600/house.

It is not a matter of our "believing" there is something "wrong", as you put it, going on here. It is a demonstrable fact.

Look for example at the campaign contributions by the Developer and related people and businesses to Burgess's campaign in 2012, when he faced opposition. Do a little digging, on your own, into the relationships between the Developer and Commissioners. Some of this stuff can be discovered from public records. What, if if anything, cannot be discovered from public records?

[Advogado]

:confused: I just pulled up the Sumter Co. Property Appraiser's Web Site Sumter County Property Appraiser - Joey Hooten - Bushnell, Florida - 352-569-6800 (http://www.sumterpa.com/)
You can go back to 2006 and look at tax info. I've been here full time since 2004.
On my 2006 tax bill the total millage rate (ad valorem) was 14.9660
On our 2019 (latest) tax bill the total ad valorem millage rate was 12.4001
That means our millage rate is down 2.5659 over the last 13 years.
I also want to add we paid $63.79 less in Sumter Co. property taxes in 2019 than we did in 2006. AND $255.92 less in total ad valorem taxes.

CAN ANY "SUMTER COUNTY VOTER" PLEASE EXPLAIN AGAIN WHY I SHOULD BE MAD? WHY I SHOULD WANT TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR COUNTY IS RUN? CHANGE WHO RUNS THE COUNTY? :shrug:

I really (sorry) don't want to hear from people who don't live here..... this is our home..... not our golf vacation destination. I know you might be tax payers and home owners here and entitled to your opinions..... I just don't (sorry really) want to here them. Thank you for letting me rant. :)

As you requested, you should be mad for the following reason:

Every time you pay your tax bill, you are, in reality, writing a check to the Developer for the amount of your tax increase. That is because the County Commissioners, who are beholden to the Developer for their jobs, voted to increase your taxes, rather than the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, to pay for the infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages.

[Advogado]

If you are that concerned, live elsewhere. It was clearly obvious to anyone buying here that they would pay a premium for the home PLUS a bond (or remaining bond if buying previously owned), plus other monthly and annual fees. Even in 2012 when we bought, the taxes were higher than anywhere else we were considering. So if knowing that you still bought here, why complain about it all now? This may not be the best community for people retiring on a tight budget, but other amenities make it really attractive. So the family that thought it up made a few billion, that’s America. I’m not saying there may not be some things taken advantage of by the developers who have the influence to do it, but if that really concerns you I think you will be much less frustrated living elsewhere than trying to change things here. Best of luck either way.
We are living in a community, not at a resort hotel. Don't check out if something is rotten in your government. Vote to clean it up. In this case, by voting out Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.

BTW, I don't begrudge the Morses making a lot of money. They just shouldn't do it at taxpayer expense.

[JoMar]

Curious....if you vote out the commissioners what do you expect the new people to do? Reduce the tax increase, pass laws that will put more burden on developers (all not just Morse), put more taxes on Villages so those that live in other parts of Sumter aren't impacted? I hear a lot of vote out the bums but nothing on what is expected.

[tophcfa]

Curious....if you vote out the commissioners what do you expect the new people to do? Reduce the tax increase, pass laws that will put more burden on developers (all not just Morse), put more taxes on Villages so those that live in other parts of Sumter aren't impacted? I hear a lot of vote out the bums but nothing on what is expected.

Act independently and objectively and look out for the best interest of the counties taxpayers.

[golfing eagles]

As you requested, you should be mad for the following reason:

Every time you pay your tax bill, you are, in reality, writing a check to the Developer for the amount of your tax increase. That is because the County Commissioners, who are beholden to the Developer for their jobs, voted to increase your taxes, rather than the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, to pay for the infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages.

SO WHAT?????

If the developer paid $20,000 more in impact fees, they would pass it along to the home buyer, and you'd be paying it anyway, just not in your tax bill. Or did you think "the developer" would just eat the extra expense as a gift to YOU??????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Advogado]

SO WHAT?????

If the developer paid $20,000 more in impact fees, they would pass it along to the home buyer, and you'd be paying it anyway, just not in your tax bill. Or did you think "the developer" would just eat the extra expense as a gift to YOU??????:1r otfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

First, businesses cannot simply pass on all increased costs to consumers. If they could, they would raise their prices before the cost increases.

Second, to the extent that the costs are passed on through higher prices, they would be paid by the purchasers of new homes, the ones that are causing the the infrastructure expenses. Thus, the costs would be borne by the Developer and the new home buyers-- exactly the people who are responsible for the infrastructure and the ones who should be paying for it.

Remember, thanks to the Developer's guys on the County Commission, every time you pay your county taxes, you are, in reality, writing a check to the Developer for the amount of the tax increase. The residents of Sumter County are being played for suckers by the Developer and his tax-raising, aquifer-draining, sinkhole-causing County Commissioners.

[ColdNoMore]

We are living in a community, not at a resort hotel. Don't check out if something is rotten in your government. Vote to clean it up. In this case, by voting out Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.

BTW, I don't begrudge the Morses making a lot of money. They just shouldn't do it at taxpayer expense.


Exactly the way I see it, and really...a pretty easy concept. :oops:

The choice is simple.

Have the beneficiary of the necessitated infrastructure improvements pay for what they made necessary...or make taxpayers subsidize them.

If Da Family, or any other developer, is necessitating upgraded infrastructure due to THEIR development, it should be paid by THEM...through impact fees.

If the developers choose to increase the price of their product and the direct recipient of these improvements of the infrastructure upgrades have to pay more, so be it...that's the way it's supposed to work.

It's really hard for me to comprehend, why some people can't understand something this easy/basic, or are so willing to subsidize with public money...private enterprises who least need it. :ohdear:

[Love2Swim]

Act independently and objectively and look out for the best interest of the counties taxpayers.

In other words, do their job, ethically.

[Bogie Shooter]

Actually, November is too late to vote out Butler, Burgess, and Printz. In Sumter County, whoever wins the August 18 Republican primary will win the November election. So mark your calendar accordingly.

Glad to oblige.

Collier County, where the Commissioners are not in the pocket of developers: around $20,000/house in a retirement community versus $901 for the Developer here (more than 20 times more than the Developer pays). Regular builders in Sumter County: $2,600/house.

It is not a matter of our "believing" there is something "wrong", as you put it, going on here. It is a demonstrable fact.

Look for example at the campaign contributions by the Developer and related people and businesses to Burgess's campaign in 2012, when he faced opposition. Do a little digging, on your own, into the relationships between the Developer and Commissioners. Some of this stuff can be discovered from public records. What, if if anything, cannot be discovered from public records?

We are living in a community, not at a resort hotel. Don't check out if something is rotten in your government. Vote to clean it up. In this case, by voting out Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.

BTW, I don't begrudge the Morses making a lot of money. They just shouldn't do it at taxpayer expense.

These posts are beyond opinion, naming names is a political statement. I Thought this was not allowed??

[Two Bills]

I feel sorry for the county residents outside TV.
Bet they are ecstatic at paying towards all the expansion

[Aw Man]

I feel sorry for the county residents outside TV.
Bet they are ecstatic at paying towards all the expansion

The current “increased” property tax millage rate for ALL residents of Sumter County is substantially less than it was 20 years ago!

It’s 33% less than the tax rate they paid 20 years ago!

Why would they be upset?

Why would you feel sorry for them?

[Challenger]

I don’t care if the Morse family makes money but why should the tax payers subsidize them. There would be no development if there were no roads built so the developer should pay for that.

In most areas the developer pays for the infrastructure (roads) by developer fees these run about $20,000 per home. The Morse’s pay $900.

The entire counties taxes went up because now the tax payers are paying for this cost instead of the developer. This cost is usually built into the price of the home.

All costs are part of the consideration for the home. Consideration = price paid+ any other liens against the property . If there were no bond program , the developer would have paid out of pocket or with a construction loan and the outcome would be the same.All costs are passed through to the buyer through one mechanism or the other. Any increase in "impact fees will' by definition be passed through to the buyer. Ergo a higher price. I have no quarrel with higher impact fees, but the final result will still be that the buyer pays.

[Two Bills]

The current “increased” property tax millage rate for ALL residents of Sumter County is substantially less than it was 20 years ago!

It’s 33% less than the tax rate they paid 20 years ago!

Why would they be upset?

Why would you feel sorry for them?


They are paying towards something that is of no benefit to them, and I bet none of them wanted, and the current increase is 25%.
20 years ago is irrelevant.

[Marathon Man]

They are paying towards something that is of no benefit to them, and I bet none of them wanted, and the current increase is 25%.
20 years ago is irrelevant.

A lot of folks living in the area have jobs because of TV. Expansion creates jobs.

[golfing eagles]

"If they could, they would raise their prices before the cost increases."

You mean like gas stations?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

They are paying towards something that is of no benefit to them, and I bet none of them wanted, and the current increase is 25%.
20 years ago is irrelevant.

Jobs. Expanded tax base. Retail stores in their own backyard. Yep, no benefit:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Love2Swim]

Jobs. Expanded tax base. Retail stores in their own backyard. Yep, no benefit:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Go to the Leesburg FB page and see how many of them are thrilled with all the expansion, and with The Villages.

[Polar Bear]

Go to the Leesburg FB page and see how many of them are thrilled with all the expansion, and with The Villages.
Oooh. FB page. Guess that settles that.

[JoMar]

Act independently and objectively and look out for the best interest of the counties taxpayers.

And that include ongoing increases.

[thomp679]

I do not agree with your post.

Many on this thread have agreed with me and many are trustworthy and long term posters who have excellent antennae, and better yet, common sense.

Well why didn't you say so earlier. I can now go to bed knowing the OP is wrong and all is well in The Villages.

[tophcfa]

All costs are part of the consideration for the home. Consideration = price paid+ any other liens against the property . If there were no bond program , the developer would have paid out of pocket or with a construction loan and the outcome would be the same.All costs are passed through to the buyer through one mechanism or the other. Any increase in "impact fees will' by definition be passed through to the buyer. Ergo a higher price. I have no quarrel with higher impact fees, but the final result will still be that the buyer pays.

The problem is that the prices are not being passed on to the buyers of new homes, the problem is that the costs of expansion are being passed on to existing homeowners.

[dewilson58]

How much of the Budget Increase is actually going to road improvements for the Southern Oaks area???




Let's get the dollar amount out there.








:read:

[dewilson58]

You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!







OP.........What IS the dollar increase in the county expenditures for the Southern Oaks area??


What are the facts??

[skip0358]

OK I been reading these posts since they started. I've posted before on the topic. I just pulled up my tax bill since 2009 when we moved here. My taxed with the increase this year are still $51 dollars less then my first years tax bill. Yea I know it's an increase big whop $213 dollars more than my lowest year of 2016 and $213 dollars more than last year. Stop with the 25% increase that would have been $610 dollars then I have something to complain about. Every year more & more things are being added & upgraded that's why we moved here period. A tax increase which is costing me 1 beer a week out more is not an increase period. Yea maybe certain people have been in office to long that's what elections are for but I think and I know I'm going to get beat on for saying this it's a hell of a lot better & 100 times cheaper.

[Village Silver Girl]

We were told that The Village developer bought Rainey Constuction.... either way it’s wrong.... the county roads in Sumter county are in horrible conditions and the taxes just increased but the money will be going to make The Village developer even more money... just wrong! Vote them out!

[bagboy]

James Rainey owns Rainey Construction. Unless you believe what the POA tells you.

[ColdNoMore]

James Rainey owns Rainey Construction. Unless you believe what the POA tells you.

I'll believe the POA...over that 'other' group.

After all, they are the only group that is constantly looking out for us residents, even in the face of outright hatred/vitriol toward them, simply because they have the audacity...to pull back the curtain.

And on those occasions they get it wrong, unlike so many others...they have no compunction admitting they were wrong.

Unlike that other group, which is nothing more than a sock-puppet/mouthpiece...for Da Family.

But hey, although that other group has no interest whatsoever in protecting outrageous actions that are detrimental to us TV residents...they do at least temporarily loan out wheelchairs. :oops:

[dewilson58]

Again............What IS the dollar increase in the county expenditures for the Southern Oaks area??




Does any one know what dollar amount they are complaining about???

[Advogado]

The problem is that the prices are not being passed on to the buyers of new homes, the problem is that the costs of expansion are being passed on to existing homeowners.

Exactly. If the Developer could really succeed in passing on all the increased impact fees through higher prices (which anybody with any knowledge of economics or business would realize he could not), that would be fine. The costs of the new infrastructure would then be borne by the people who necessitated it, not by the existing residents-- who didn't want The Villages to expand in the first place.

[Advogado]

All costs are part of the consideration for the home. Consideration = price paid+ any other liens against the property . If there were no bond program , the developer would have paid out of pocket or with a construction loan and the outcome would be the same.All costs are passed through to the buyer through one mechanism or the other. Any increase in "impact fees will' by definition be passed through to the buyer. Ergo a higher price. I have no quarrel with higher impact fees, but the final result will still be that the buyer pays.

Apparently you have never been in business. Increased costs cannot simply be passed on to customers. If a business could do that, it would raise its prices without any increase in costs and thereby increase its profits. But even if the Developer could pass on a higher impact fee entirely, that would be okay. The costs of the infrastructure would then be paid by the people who necessitated it, not by the existing residents, who didn't want the new The Villages sprawl in the first place.

[Advogado]

They are paying towards something that is of no benefit to them, and I bet none of them wanted, and the current increase is 25%.
20 years ago is irrelevant.
Exactly, the issue here is the REASON for the tax increase, which is to put taxpayer money in the Developer's pocket by having taxpayers pay for infrastructure that should be paid for by the Developer via a reasonable impact fee. Some posters do not seem to understand that. Vote out Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August Republican primary.

[Advogado]

A lot of folks living in the area have jobs because of TV. Expansion creates jobs.

It also:
>increases pollution
>increases the likelihood of sinkholes
>creates congestion-- both people and traffic
>causes a shortage of service personnel
>jeopardizes our water supply
>kills any chances of major appreciation in our investment in our homes
>costs us a 25% tax increase.

[Bogie Shooter]

Why oh why are you still here?

[golfing eagles]

10 pages of posts with differing opinions (so what else is new?:1rotfl:)
It appears to me there is a group that objects to the tax increase to pay for new infrastructure on the basis that all homeowners are paying for something that only benefits some.
So the objection is that someone may be paying for something they don't use.

Well, where to start?

School taxes for couples who never had children
Cell phone surcharges to pay for those that don't pay their bill
Higher health insurance premiums to offset losses to hospitals by uninsured patients that don't pay their bills
Corporate tax subsidies for investing in Zimbabwe or Uzbekistan or putting up a sign that says save the whales or some other such nonsense
Food stamps
Welfare checks
Medicaid
And my new favorite: Some restaurants in California adding a surcharge to combat "climate change"

I could go on, but I think I've made my point

[neilbcox]

I am the OP. Cost is not known until the developers design the roads plus drainage contacts with Rainey Construction On a NO BID project. Then the developers will invoices Sumpter County plus a 3% management fees and includes draws throughout the process. Realize that construction cost in the 30 future is unknown!

The information I posted came directly from Sumpter County records including the 30 year county approved contract which was signed on July 10, 2018...before the commissioners held public meetings with the taxpayers!

Has anyone noticed that with 12 championship golf clubs above Hwy 44 that with additional 65,000 homes being developed south is Hwy 44 that all I have heard about is maybe ONE championship courses. The developers own the championship courses. I guess building thousands of more home makes more money than championship golf courses. No wonder the developers have raised the cost of playing their championship courses so that they can make room for the 65,000 home owners buying below Hwy 44.

[graciegirl]

I'll believe the POA...over that 'other' group.

After all, they are the only group that is constantly looking out for us residents, even in the face of outright hatred/vitriol toward them, simply because they have the audacity...to pull back the curtain.

And on those occasions they get it wrong, unlike so many others...they have no compunction admitting they were wrong.

Unlike that other group, which is nothing more than a sock-puppet/mouthpiece...for Da Family.

But hey, although that other group has no interest whatsoever in protecting outrageous actions that are detrimental to us TV residents...they do at least temporarily loan out wheelchairs. :oops:

I am NOT a fan of the POA. AT ALL.

[Advogado]

10 pages of posts with differing opinions (so what else is new?:1rotfl:)
It appears to me there is a group that objects to the tax increase to pay for new infrastructure on the basis that all homeowners are paying for something that only benefits some.
So the objection is that someone may be paying for something they don't use.

Well, where to start?

School taxes for couples who never had children
Cell phone surcharges to pay for those that don't pay their bill
Higher health insurance premiums to offset losses to hospitals by uninsured patients that don't pay their bills
Corporate tax subsidies for investing in Zimbabwe or Uzbekistan or putting up a sign that says save the whales or some other such nonsense
Food stamps
Welfare checks
Medicaid
And my new favorite: Some restaurants in California adding a surcharge to combat "climate change"

I could go on, but I think I've made my point
No. This whole thread is about the Developer’s county commissioners offloading the Developer’s infrastructure costs onto the taxpayers, thereby giving a gift to the Developer of $150 million or so.

[dewilson58]

I am the OP. Cost is not known until the developers design the roads plus drainage contacts with Rainey Construction On a NO BID project. Then the developers will invoices Sumpter County plus a 3% management fees and includes draws throughout the process. Realize that construction cost in the 30 future is unknown!

The information I posted came directly from Sumpter County records including the 30 year county approved contract which was signed on July 10, 2018...before the commissioners held public meetings with the taxpayers!



Your post:
2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!


The 25% increase was to fund the approved County budget. How much of "The Villages developers" cost was in the County budget???


I'm interested in how much money you are talking about. Do you know??

[golfing eagles]

No. This whole thread is about the Developer’s county commissioners offloading the Developer’s infrastructure costs onto the taxpayers, thereby giving a gift to the Developer a gift of $150 million or so.

And that is different from what I posted?----HOW????

[dewilson58]

No. This whole thread is about the Developer’s county commissioners offloading the Developer’s infrastructure costs onto the taxpayers, thereby giving a gift to the Developer a gift of $150 million or so.




Where did you get $150mil???

[dewilson58]

I am the OP.

Has anyone noticed that with 12 championship golf clubs above Hwy 44 that with additional 65,000 homes being developed south is Hwy 44 that all I have heard about is maybe ONE championship courses. The developers own the championship courses. I guess building thousands of more home makes more money than championship golf courses. No wonder the developers have raised the cost of playing their championship courses so that they can make room for the 65,000 home owners buying below Hwy 44.




Education:
Golf is dying, many experts say. According to one study by the golf industry group Pellucid Corp., the number of regular golfers fell from 30 to 20.9 million between 2002 and 2016. ... Unless the golf industry can change its ways, the decline will mean a lot of empty greens across the country. Jun 8, 2018

[neilbcox]

I requested Sumter County provide me with the last five Villages developers invoiced expenses. I find it interesting that the Villages developers presented multimillion dollar invoices to the county for reimbursement the EXACT day, July 10, 2018, the commissioners approved their 30 year contract! If it smells like poop it must be poop on the taxpayers!

[Advogado]

Where did you get $150mil???

The $150 million figure is conservative. Only the Developer and his County Commissioners can give you the exact figure. In an October 19 article, the Orlando Sentinel cites a figure of $186 million just for roads. Thus, that number doesn't include libraries, fire and police stations and equipment, government buildings, sewage and water treatment plants, etc.--other infrastructure that other counties include in a developer's impact fee.

If you have a better figure, I would be glad to be educated.

[neilbcox]

I don’t see anything in the contract that this contract is counter active to the agreement! I think these charges should be billed back to the developers!

[Advogado]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjv0tmjsMjnAhWlslkKHeQuDsYQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fopinio n%2Fos-op-lauren-ritchie-villages-trouble-in-paradise-20191018-cnnogwscozbvlhb4vpvulv3hpi-story.html&usg=AOvVaw2mKeqrI_1ePfGE9wqFGMXU

Every Villager should read this.

[neilbcox]

:bigbow:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjv0tmjsMjnAhWlslkKHeQuDsYQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fopinio n%2Fos-op-lauren-ritchie-villages-trouble-in-paradise-20191018-cnnogwscozbvlhb4vpvulv3hpi-story.html&usg=AOvVaw2mKeqrI_1ePfGE9wqFGMXU

Every Villager should read this.

[neilbcox]

Outstanding add to the conversation!

[ColdNoMore]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjv0tmjsMjnAhWlslkKHeQuDsYQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fopinio n%2Fos-op-lauren-ritchie-villages-trouble-in-paradise-20191018-cnnogwscozbvlhb4vpvulv3hpi-story.html&usg=AOvVaw2mKeqrI_1ePfGE9wqFGMXU

Every Villager should read this.

The nasty, personal attacks on the author, for simply reporting the facts...should be starting in 4....3....2....

[Bogie Shooter]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjv0tmjsMjnAhWlslkKHeQuDsYQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fopinio n%2Fos-op-lauren-ritchie-villages-trouble-in-paradise-20191018-cnnogwscozbvlhb4vpvulv3hpi-story.html&usg=AOvVaw2mKeqrI_1ePfGE9wqFGMXU

Every Villager should read this.
Lauren Ritchie.....need I say more?

[tophcfa]

Education:
Golf is dying, many experts say. According to one study by the golf industry group Pellucid Corp., the number of regular golfers fell from 30 to 20.9 million between 2002 and 2016. ... Unless the golf industry can change its ways, the decline will mean a lot of empty greens across the country. Jun 8, 2018

That is true in urban areas, with a younger population, and further north where there is a limited golf season. Here in the Villages golf is thriving, but it is also getting ridiculously expensive and difficult to get favorable T-times during the winter season. Increasing the size of the Villages by roughly 2/3 and opening only one Championship course, sometime TBD, is seriously diluting one of the primary reasons many Villagers decided to make this place their retirement destination.

[Advogado]

Lauren Ritchie.....need I say more?

Could you please point out the factual errors rather than attacking the writer.

[Advogado]

The nasty, personal attacks on the author, for simply reporting the facts...should be starting in 4....3....2....

Yes, I see that the attacks on Lauren Ritchie have started already.

[dewilson58]

That is true in urban areas, with a younger population, and further north where there is a limited golf season. Here in the Villages golf is thriving, but it is also getting ridiculously expensive and difficult to get favorable T-times during the winter season. Increasing the size of the Villages by roughly 2/3 and opening only one Championship course, sometime TBD, is seriously diluting one of the primary reasons many Villagers decided to make this place their retirement destination.




My point is the developer sees a trend and is planning for it.



I have NEVER had an issue getting a tee time.



If you look on the courses, rarely do you see a Villages' golf cart. If the "Southern" villagers are significantly impacting the courses...........you would see tons of Villages' golf carts. It ain't happening and you don't see the rentals.



Dooms Day is not around the corner.


:ho:

[dewilson58]

The $150 million figure is conservative. Only the Developer and his County Commissioners can give you the exact figure. In an October 19 article, the Orlando Sentinel cites a figure of $186 million just for roads. Thus, that number doesn't include libraries, fire and police stations and equipment, government buildings, sewage and water treatment plants, etc.--other infrastructure that other counties include in a developer's impact fee.

If you have a better figure, I would be glad to be educated.




Yes............Look at the County Budget. Planned expenditures are no where near that amount.


That's why I keep asking posters for factual numbers. Not made up numbers.


Stick to the facts.

[neilbcox]

UPDATE!

On July 10, 2018 Sumter County Commissioners approved and signed the 30 year NO BID contract with the Villages developers. In this contract it states that the developers can submit reimbursement invoices to Sumter County.

On July 10, 2018 after signing this contract the developers submitted over millions of dollars for reimbursement for projects BEFORE this contract was signed! I have a copy of this executed agreement and no where in the contract does it state that the developers can receive reimbursement money retroactively! Is this illegal? Should the developers pay back these millions back to the taxpayers?

[graciegirl]

Yes, I see that the attacks on Lauren Ritchie have started already.

Not a fan of her and I am not a fan of the POA. This thread is a perfect example of who is working for us and who isn't.

The POA has done some good things but when I read this thread...………..nope. So tired of people trying to vote a good way to run things OUT. Tired of the developer being villainized.

[dewilson58]

UPDATE!
Is this illegal?




Legal advice on ToTV????.......................




:1rotfl:






:1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

My point is the developer sees a trend and is planning for it.



I have NEVER had an issue getting a tee time.



If you look on the courses, rarely do you see a Villages' golf cart. If the "Southern" villagers are significantly impacting the courses...........you would see tons of Villages' golf carts. It ain't happening and you don't see the rentals.



Dooms Day is not around the corner.


:ho:

You are correct, in the long run the trend is indisputable. But for people our age, the long run is right now and our golfing opportunities are getting seriously diluted by the rapid expansion without new golf. I am not priority (does not make financial sense for a part timer) and recently had three friends from up North come visit. Try to get a T-Time in the winter for a foursome consisting of a non-priority resident and three resident guests, good luck with that. Besides very early in the AM, or at the end of the PM wave when there might not be enough light to finish the round, I could not get a T- Time despite the cost of $286 for the foursome. I can always sneak out as a single and join others, but when you can’t even get a T-time when guests visit is just not right. Four years ago, before the expansion, my same group of friends came down and we had no problem getting T-times. At least this year when my friends visited, it got really cold out by Villages standards, so we were able to get out because of all the cancellations.

[Two Bills]

Education:
Golf is dying, many experts say. According to one study by the golf industry group Pellucid Corp., the number of regular golfers fell from 30 to 20.9 million between 2002 and 2016. ... Unless the golf industry can change its ways, the decline will mean a lot of empty greens across the country. Jun 8, 2018

Probably the main reason the family retained possesion of the championship courses.
When demand falls, courses will hold a lot of new housing.

[dewilson58]

You are correct, in the long run the trend is indisputable. But for people our age, the long run is right now and our golfing opportunities are getting seriously diluted by the rapid expansion without new golf. I am not priority (does not make financial sense for a part timer) and recently had three friends from up North come visit. Try to get a T-Time in the winter for a foursome consisting of a non-priority resident and three resident guests, good luck with that. Besides very early in the AM, or at the end of the PM wave when there might not be enough light to finish the round, I could not get a T- Time despite the cost of $286 for the foursome. I can always sneak out as a single and join others, but when you can’t even get a T-time when guests visit is just not right. Four years ago, before the expansion, my same group of friends came down and we had no problem getting T-times. At least this year when my friends visited, it got really cold out by Villages standards, so we were able to get out because of all the cancellations.


I hear you.

I'm lucky, I only have two friends from the North and we were able to get on. Disclosure: It was in April so the Snow population is dropping. 2nd Disclosure: I'm an early, early guy. I'm a dew sweeper.

[dewilson58]

Probably the main reason the family retained possesion of the championship courses.
When demand falls, courses will hold a lot of new housing.




I was wondering that also. Probably not in my lifetime. Can you imagine the Golf View Lot owners at that time???? :shocked:

[ColdNoMore]

Probably the main reason the family retained possesion of the championship courses.
When demand falls, courses will hold a lot of new housing.

A whole lot of the existing golf holes will face a big challenge...in getting a road to any new houses. :shrug:

[tophcfa]

I hear you.

I'm lucky, I only have two friends from the North and we were able to get on. Disclosure: It was in April so the Snow population is dropping. 2nd Disclosure: I'm an early, early guy. I'm a dew sweeper.

I remember reading and enjoying your post about your marathon golf outing with friends last April😎

[Advogado]

Yes............Look at the County Budget. Planned expenditures are no where near that amount.


That's why I keep asking posters for factual numbers. Not made up numbers.


Stick to the facts.


This is obviously a multi--year figure.

[dewilson58]

This is obviously a multi--year figure.




:blahblahblah:


:blahblahblah:


:blahblahblah:




Of course it is.


And The Villages will expand all the way to Disney too.

[Bogie Shooter]

You are correct, in the long run the trend is indisputable. But for people our age, the long run is right now and our golfing opportunities are getting seriously diluted by the rapid expansion without new golf. I am not priority (does not make financial sense for a part timer) and recently had three friends from up North come visit. Try to get a T-Time in the winter for a foursome consisting of a non-priority resident and three resident guests, good luck with that. Besides very early in the AM, or at the end of the PM wave when there might not be enough light to finish the round, I could not get a T- Time despite the cost of $286 for the foursome. I can always sneak out as a single and join others, but when you can’t even get a T-time when guests visit is just not right. Four years ago, before the expansion, my same group of friends came down and we had no problem getting T-times. At least this year when my friends visited, it got really cold out by Villages standards, so we were able to get out because of all the cancellations.

What am I missing?
Today is Tuesday and I looked for open t-time for Thursday.
Between 7:22 and noon, there are 108 foursome tee times.
Doesn't make any difference the make up of the foursome, priority, resident or guest.
I don't see the problem...………………...

[neilbcox]

What championship golf course?

[Dutchman]

Being from Lake County I'm not affected but the ? I would raise - Is the construction contract that was awarded have legal standing?

According to Florida Statutes
255.20 Local bids and contracts for public construction works;
(1) A county, municipality, special district as defined in chapter 189, or other political subdivision of the state seeking to construct or improve a public building, structure, or other public construction works must competitively award to an appropriately licensed contractor each project that is estimated in accordance with generally accepted cost-accounting principles to cost more than $300,000. For electrical work, the local government must competitively award to an appropriately licensed contractor each project that is estimated in accordance with generally accepted cost-accounting principles to cost more than $75,000. As used in this section, the term “competitively award” means to award contracts based on the submission of sealed bids, proposals submitted in response to a request for proposal, proposals submitted in response to a request for qualifications, or proposals submitted for competitive negotiation.

[Bogie Shooter]

What championship golf course?

All. That doesn’t make any difference.
You cannot be choosy and then say there are no tee times,

[Challenger]

What am I missing?
Today is Tuesday and I looked for open t-time for Thursday.
Between 7:22 and noon, there are 108 foursome tee times.
Doesn't make any difference the make up of the foursome, priority, resident or guest.
I don't see the problem...………………...

Been here 9+ yrs . Wife and I play 9holes, 3 or more times a week . Am flexible and look for open slots after 9pm night before. In 9 years have not been able to find a time maybe 6 times. If you know how to use the system and are flexible , you can play all the golf that you desire.

[graciegirl]

I have been reading this forum for a long time. I find it interesting that the "thank you's" for statements are going along pretty predictably. In fact on the first post by the OP there were two "thank you's" from folks who had never ever ever posted before.

I like to know if there is more than what is said and attitudes deeper than an issue when I read a debate like this and the people who stand for and against are to me the telling factor.

My opinion is that there is a movement to unseat people who are connected to the developer. There are those, like realtors that cannot sell new homes and they have a beef, and I see at least one who has chimed in.

I always wonder what is the agenda behind all of the debate and I step back, four, five, six, forty, a thousand paces and look at this place. I am always astonished at how well it is run, and that is has just minor flukes. It is clean, it is well maintained and it offers a myriad of things for a decent price. It is hugely successful for good reason. Folks are flocking here, and that irritates many, but it is a sign of success. Many people are irritated by those who make big bucks. Many people want to run things themselves.

I say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You might just throw out the baby with the bath water and usher in some folks who are really gonna make you mad.

[tophcfa]

Probably the main reason the family retained possesion of the championship courses.
When demand falls, courses will hold a lot of new housing.

The golf courses are designed to become flood management areas during extreme wet weather conditions. Not a good place to build homes. Remember Hurricane Irma.

[crash]

I have been reading this forum for a long time. I find it interesting that the "thank you's" for statements are going along pretty predictably. In fact on the first post by the OP there were two "thank you's" from folks who had never ever ever posted before.

I like to know if there is more than what is said and attitudes deeper than an issue when I read a debate like this and the people who stand for and against are to me the telling factor.

My opinion is that there is a movement to unseat people who are connected to the developer. There are those, like realtors that cannot sell new homes and they have a beef, and I see at least one who has chimed in.
I always wonder what is the agenda behind all of the debate and I step back, four, five, six, forty, a thousand paces and look at this place. I am always astonished at how well it is run, and that is has just minor flukes. It is clean, it is well maintained and it offers a myriad of things for a decent price. It is hugely successful for good reason. Folks are flocking here, and that irritates many, but it is a sign of success. Many people are irritated by those who make big bucks. Many people want to run things themselves.

I say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You might just throw out the baby with the bath water and usher in some folks who are really gonna make you mad.

Why can't you be happy and let the developer pay for the infrastructure he needs to keep on building, that is how it works every where else in the country.

He is building new and we are paying for the infrastructure with higher taxes.

[golfing eagles]

Why can't you be happy and let the developer pay for the infrastructure he needs to keep on building, that is how it works every where else in the country.

He is building new and we are paying for the infrastructure with higher taxes.

Let's be clear about what is meant by "infrastructure"

The issue is the roads, which will eventually be turned over to the county. There is some ambiguity over who initially pays for the roads, and how they are turned over, and what the specific deal REALLY is.

The rest of the infrastructure in TV is paid by the homeowner in the form of the "bond"

The county will maintain these roads and own them. That is why TV is not a truly gated community, you cannot deny use of county roads by the public. The water, sewer, MMPs, electricity are all paid for by the homeowner in their bond.

So the issue comes back to the question: should ALL homeowners in Sumter County pay for roads that "are of no benefit to them"? Previous posts have listed the benefits to all in the form of an improved economy, more jobs, and even free entertainment at the town squares. For a long time , Sumter County was the poorest county in Florida out of 67, now it ranks 15th---quite a benefit!
Previously I posted a list of thing we taxpayers bear the cost of yet derive no benefit: School taxes for childless couples, cell phone surcharges, welfare, food stamp and Medicaid to name a few. We are constantly paying for these things in both obvious and subtle taxes and fees.
Are the developers getting some kind of financial benefit from the road deal---I don't know, but I couldn't care less. They've built a very special place, have run their business very well, and as a result, they are "ultra-rich" WHO CARES. There seem to be a lot of posters that are jealous of their success, or feel that they are owed something from "the rich". NO, YOU AREN'T!!!!!

[birdiebill]

My question is: what roads does the developer pay for and what roads are the counties responsibility?

My assumption, but I do not know for certain, is that the developer initially paid for the "infrastructure" (infra- means within) which includes among many things, all the roads WITHIN a new village. The home owner's bond then paid for the "infrastructure" within their village through annual payments rather than have each home owner pay for the "infrastructure" by having his/her share added to the cost of their lot. Developers always recoup their costs someway.

My assumption, which may be wrong, is that the county (us taxpayers) then paid for improvements and repair to the regional county roads which includes 468, 501, 466A, 466, Warm Springs road, etc, and the repaving of Morse and Buena Vista, and part of 466A. These regional roads are available and used by many people, villagers and non-villagers alike. IMHO, the cost of maintenance, repairs, and improvements of these roads was not the responsibility of the developer, but was the responsibility of the county. Poor planning on the part of the county meant the significant property tax increase, rather than a smaller increase over past years to accumulate a "rainy day fund."

[Advogado]

I have been reading this forum for a long time. I find it interesting that the "thank you's" for statements are going along pretty predictably. In fact on the first post by the OP there were two "thank you's" from folks who had never ever ever posted before.

I like to know if there is more than what is said and attitudes deeper than an issue when I read a debate like this and the people who stand for and against are to me the telling factor.

My opinion is that there is a movement to unseat people who are connected to the developer. There are those, like realtors that cannot sell new homes and they have a beef, and I see at least one who has chimed in.

I always wonder what is the agenda behind all of the debate and I step back, four, five, six, forty, a thousand paces and look at this place. I am always astonished at how well it is run, and that is has just minor flukes. It is clean, it is well maintained and it offers a myriad of things for a decent price. It is hugely successful for good reason. Folks are flocking here, and that irritates many, but it is a sign of success. Many people are irritated by those who make big bucks. Many people want to run things themselves.

I say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You might just throw out the baby with the bath water and usher in some folks who are really gonna make you mad.

It is “broke”.

Many of us are aware that it is badly broken, and we are trying to fix it, and whether or not The Villages has nice life style is completely irrelevant. We live in a community, not in a resort hotel, and we should be insisting on good government in our community.

The point under discussion is that the five "people connected with the Developer" (your words) on the Sumter County Commission have picked our pockets, and given to the Developer, $186 million (Orlando Sentinel figure). The County Commissioners have done this by massively increasing our taxes to pay for infrastructure that should be paid for by the Developer via increasing his sweetheart impact fee. That impact fee has been $901/house versus $2,600 for other Sumter County builders versus about $20,000 for a Collier County builder in a retirement community.

Every time you pay your county tax bill, you are, in reality, writing the Developer a check for the amount of your increased tax, and every year that check is going to get bigger and bigger as your assessed value increases. You, apparently, are okay with this. Are you are also okay with the County Commissioners refusing to oppose draining our aquifer for commercial bottling-- thereby increasing our risk of both a water shortage and even more sinkholes?

If you are okay with that sort of stuff, fine; keep voting for the incumbent Commissioners. Many of us are not okay with with that kind of abuse of Sumter residents by the County Commissioners. For that reason, we are marking our calendars to vote out Developer-puppets Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.

[dewilson58]

My question is: what roads does the developer pay for and what roads are the counties responsibility?

My assumption, but I do not know for certain, is that the developer initially paid for the "infrastructure" (infra- means within) which includes among many things, all the roads WITHIN a new village. The home owner's bond then paid for the "infrastructure" within their village through annual payments rather than have each home owner pay for the "infrastructure" by having his/her share added to the cost of their lot. Developers always recoup their costs someway.

My assumption, which may be wrong, is that the county (us taxpayers) then paid for improvements and repair to the regional county roads which includes 468, 501, 466A, 466, Warm Springs road, etc, and the repaving of Morse and Buena Vista, and part of 466A. These regional roads are available and used by many people, villagers and non-villagers alike. IMHO, the cost of maintenance, repairs, and improvements of these roads was not the responsibility of the developer, but was the responsibility of the county. Poor planning on the part of the county meant the significant property tax increase, rather than a smaller increase over past years to accumulate a "rainy day fund."




What is the Bond Debt Assessment for?
The bond debt assessment reflects each lot’s proportionate share of the cost of building the infrastructure within its District or for which its District has responsibility. It is the most equitable method of distributing costs between the properties that benefit from the infrastructure. Infrastructure includes storm water systems, underground pump stations, water retention areas, curbs, gutters, streetlights, transportation trails, underground piping, etc.

[graciegirl]

It is “broke”.

Many of us are aware that it is badly broken, and we are trying to fix it, and whether or not The Villages has nice life style is completely irrelevant. We live in a community, not in a resort hotel, and we should be insisting on good government in our community.

The point under discussion is that the five "people connected with the Developer" (your words) on the Sumter County Commission have picked our pockets, and given to the Developer, $186 million (Orlando Sentinel figure). The County Commissioners have done this by massively increasing our taxes to pay for infrastructure that should be paid for by the Developer via increasing his sweetheart impact fee. That impact fee has been $901/house versus $2,600 for other Sumter County builders versus about $20,000 for a Collier County builder in a retirement community.

Every time you pay your county tax bill, you are, in reality, writing the Developer a check for the amount of your increased tax, and every year that check is going to get bigger and bigger as your assessed value increases. You, apparently, are okay with this. Are you are also okay with the County Commissioners refusing to oppose draining our aquifer for commercial bottling-- thereby increasing our risk of both a water shortage and even more sinkholes?

If you are okay with that sort of stuff, fine; keep voting for the incumbent Commissioners. Many of us are not okay with with that kind of abuse of Sumter residents by the County Commissioners. For that reason, we are marking our calendars to vote out Developer-puppets Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.

What are the names of the people who will be running against them??? Are you running?

[Advogado]

Let's be clear about what is meant by "infrastructure"

The issue is the roads, which will eventually be turned over to the county. There is some ambiguity over who initially pays for the roads, and how they are turned over, and what the specific deal REALLY is.

The rest of the infrastructure in TV is paid by the homeowner in the form of the "bond"

The county will maintain these roads and own them. That is why TV is not a truly gated community, you cannot deny use of county roads by the public. The water, sewer, MMPs, electricity are all paid for by the homeowner in their bond.

So the issue comes back to the question: should ALL homeowners in Sumter County pay for roads that "are of no benefit to them"? Previous posts have listed the benefits to all in the form of an improved economy, more jobs, and even free entertainment at the town squares. For a long time , Sumter County was the poorest county in Florida out of 67, now it ranks 15th---quite a benefit!
Previously I posted a list of thing we taxpayers bear the cost of yet derive no benefit: School taxes for childless couples, cell phone surcharges, welfare, food stamp and Medicaid to name a few. We are constantly paying for these things in both obvious and subtle taxes and fees.
Are the developers getting some kind of financial benefit from the road deal---I don't know, but I couldn't care less. They've built a very special place, have run their business very well, and as a result, they are "ultra-rich" WHO CARES. There seem to be a lot of posters that are jealous of their success, or feel that they are owed something from "the rich". NO, YOU AREN'T!!!!!

This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.

[Advogado]

What are the names of the people who will be running against them??? Are you running?

No, I am not running. My only objective is to clean up the County Commission.

The POA is endorsing challengers Miller, Estep, and Search. All three have pledged to clean up the County Commission and to roll back the tax hike. Because all three are highly qualified, the POA has vetted them, and, with the POA's endorsement, they have the best chance of ousting the Developer-backed incumbents, I am supporting Miller, Estep, and Search.

[graciegirl]

No, I am not running. My only objective is to clean up the County Commission.

The POA is endorsing challengers Miller, Estep, and Search. All three have pledged to clean up the County Commission and to roll back the tax hike. Because all three are highly qualified, the POA has vetted them, and, with the POA's endorsement, they have the best chance of ousting the Developer-backed incumbents, I am supporting Miller, Estep, and Search.

I recognize Oren Miller but what are the full names of Estep and Search, please.

[Advogado]

While are political posts, by this poster, continued to be allowed???
The subject is taxes, water shortage, and sinkholes. I only mentioned the names of candidates that I was supporting when asked.

It is hard for me to believe that subjects as important as taxes, water shortage, and sinkholes and their causes should not be discussed here.

Do you have a reason for wanting to stifle discussion? Remember, this thread has been going on for a long time with no objection from anyone. Look at the original post to understand the topic.

[Advogado]

I recognize Oren Miller but what are the full names of Miller and Search, please.
Gary Search and Craig Estep. Bios are available on the Sumter County elections website.

[birdiebill]

This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.

A point that seems to be missing is that developers do not pay for impact fees out of their own pockets. An impact fee is just another cost of doing business, and that fee is added to the final cost of the new home. The higher the impact fee, the higher the cost of the new home. In reality the new home owner pays the impact fee.

[golfing eagles]

This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.

To paraphrase "The Wizard of Oz", You're not in Collier County any more:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Advogado]

A point that seems to be missing is that developers do not pay for impact fees out of their own pockets. An impact fee is just another cost of doing business, and that fee is added to the final cost of the new home. The higher the impact fee, the higher the cost of the new home. In reality the new home owner pays the impact fee.
First, basic business and economics 101: Businesses cannot simply pass on increased costs. Competition prohibits it. A business always charges as much as it believes the market will bear.

If the Developer could charge higher prices without losing sales, he would already be doing it, even before he got hit with a realistic impact fee. If you have studied economics, you know that a demand curve slopes downward: higher prices = fewer units sold. And the Developer does face competition: retirement communities throughout the sunbelt.

But let's assume you are right. Fine, the Developer magically succeeds in passing on 100% of his increased, non-sweetheart impact fee. Then the costs of the infrastructure will be paid for by the new home owners-- exactly the ones necessitating it.

In neither case, are the costs offloaded on the existing Sumter County taxpayers, as the County Commissioners are doing now.

[Advogado]

To paraphrase "The Wizard of Oz", You're not in Collier County any more:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
That's for sure.

[golfing eagles]

This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.

No, I think you are missing the point.

A "developer" buys land, builds something on it, and then sells it FOR A PROFIT. The difference between his costs and his revenue is his profit margin. Yes, you can put additional costs on the developer, but those costs just get passed on to the consumer. People have argued that he can't pass on all his costs, but guess what---HE CAN. The only thing that keeps the profit margin in check is competition, but there is nothing around here that can compete with TV. I know nothing about Collier County, but it would seem strange that a developer would have to build PUBLIC libraries and PUBLIC police stations at his cost. In effect, that would be the reverse of what you object to----people in a specific development paying for services for the county as a whole

So now, I have to ask, do YOU live in TV or just in a surrounding area of Sumter County?

[dewilson58]

First, basic business and economics 101: Businesses cannot simply pass on increased costs. Competition prohibits it. A business always charges as much as it believes the market will bear.




If all you take is the introductory class Basic Business & Economics 101, you are left uneducated. 201 & 301 expands on the basic economic "rules". The competition to The Villages does not prevent them from passing costs onto the customers.


No one in Sumter is paying $20k. TV could easily pass on an additional $2k and sell every house they can build.

[Advogado]

If all you take is the introductory class Basic Business & Economics 101, you are left uneducated. 201 & 301 expands on the basic economic "rules". The competition to The Villages does not prevent them from passing costs onto the customers.


No one in Sumter is paying $20k. TV could easily pass on an additional $2k and sell every house they can build.


First, I don't know that it is relevant since what we are talking about is common sense, not advanced economic theory, but you raised the issue about my studying beyond Economics 101. In fact, I majored in Economics and was elected to Omicron Delta Epsilon (national economics honorary). Although it has been years since I studied the subject, I haven't forgotten everything, and the realities have not changed.

Perhaps you could explain your assertion about businesses being able to pass all cost increases on to their customers. If you were right, a business would never go bankrupt; it would just raise its prices until it made money. Just for fun, let's dig a little deeper:


Consider this: Why do you think the Developer had his County Commissioners offload his infrastructure costs on to the taxpayers???? Think about it.

To get technical: As you say, if the Developer upped his price by the amount of an increased impact fee, the Developer could eventually sell every house he builds. Product differentiation would permit that. But, because of competition, the sales would take place over a longer period of time and his profits would, therefore, take a serious hit.

Look at it this way, if the Developer could increase his prices in the amount of an increased impact fee without reducing his profits, he should immediately fire his chief financial officer for not having increased prices already, i.e., before the increase in impact fees. It would have been poor business to leave all that money on the table. But nobody has ever accused the Developer of being a bad businessman.

But let's assume you are right and the Developer could successfully pass on 100% of an arm's-length impact fee to the buyers of new homes. I would be fine with that because then you, I, and the other present Sumter County taxpayers would not be paying the Developer's infrastructure costs for him. They would fall on to the house buyers responsible for them.

[starflyte1]

OK I been reading these posts since they started. I've posted before on the topic. I just pulled up my tax bill since 2009 when we moved here. My taxed with the increase this year are still $51 dollars less then my first years tax bill. Yea I know it's an increase big whop $213 dollars more than my lowest year of 2016 and $213 dollars more than last year. Stop with the 25% increase that would have been $610 dollars then I have something to complain about. Every year more & more things are being added & upgraded that's why we moved here period. A tax increase which is costing me 1 beer a week out more is not an increase period. Yea maybe certain people have been in office to long that's what elections are for but I think and I know I'm going to get beat on for saying this it's a hell of a lot better & 100 times cheaper.

You cannot get a homestead to be in the first tax bill. It isn’t figured in until the second year. So your tax bill from year one doesn’t compare to year two if you homestead and have movedfrom another home that was homesteaded.

[ColdNoMore]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjv0tmjsMjnAhWlslkKHeQuDsYQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fopinio n%2Fos-op-lauren-ritchie-villages-trouble-in-paradise-20191018-cnnogwscozbvlhb4vpvulv3hpi-story.html&usg=AOvVaw2mKeqrI_1ePfGE9wqFGMXU

Every Villager should read this.


And this.


The POA Working Hard For TV Residents (poke here) (http://poa4us.org/bulletin/)


Sorry, but since the POA is so busy ensuring that we don't get bulldozed or ripped off by Da Family (whether one cares or not)...they don't have any wheelchairs to temporarily loan out.

You'll have to get those from Da Family's sock-puppet/mouthpiece/propaganda organization. :shrug:
.

[graciegirl]

And this.


The POA Working Hard For TV Residents (poke here) (http://poa4us.org/bulletin/)


Sorry, but since the POA is so busy ensuring that we don't get bulldozed or ripped off by Da Family (whether one cares or not)...they don't have any wheelchairs to temporarily loan out.

You'll have to get those from Da Family's sock-puppet/mouthpiece/propaganda organization. :shrug:
.

If only the POA would stick to the business of advocating for the residents and stay out of other issues like politics.

I still wish we had a third group that was more unbiased and less against the developer.

Until then, I will stay away from the POA. Just my opinion.

There are so few issues that really need any group at all. Just call warranty. I think they are awesome.

[dewilson58]

In fact, I majored in Economics and was elected to Omicron Delta Epsilon (national economics honorary).



Perhaps you could explain your assertion about businesses being able to pass all cost increases on to their customers. If you were right, a business would never go bankrupt; it would just raise its prices until it made money.


Why do you think the Developer had his County Commissioners offload his infrastructure costs on to the taxpayers????


To get technical: As you say, if the Developer upped his price by the amount of an increased impact fee, the Developer could eventually sell every house he builds. Product differentiation would permit that. But, because of competition, the sales would take place over a longer period of time and his profits would, therefore, take a serious hit.

Look at it this way, if the Developer could increase his prices in the amount of an increased impact fee without reducing his profits, he should immediately fire his chief financial officer for not having increased prices already, i.e., before the increase in impact fees. It would have been poor business to leave all that money on the table. But nobody has ever accused the Developer of being a bad businessman.

But let's assume you are right and the Developer could successfully pass on 100% of an arm's-length impact fee to the buyers of new homes. I would be fine with that because then you, I, and the other present Sumter County taxpayers would not be paying the Developer's infrastructure costs for him. They would fall on to the house buyers responsible for them.


:blahblahblah:

:1rotfl:




ODE: Kind of hanging onto the past aren't we. I did not find ODE as much of an honor when this was handed to me +30 years ago. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz And I was named player of the week in 8th grade after our third football game. Boom!!!


"Assertion"...........not businesses, The Villages. They can and they do. That's why it's value is over a billion dollars.


Why?? To provide housing at a lower price and still maintain their business model, which includes growth, quality & profits.


Not in the last 30 years and probably not in our life times. No where near that point on the curve. No significant hit in the crystal ball.


Now you're just being silly. The CFO of TV does not determine pricing. He's a good guy doing quite well. Leaving money on the table is not a sin, done it many times.



Of course I'm right. How much of the developer's cost is the county paying this year?? What is the actual dollar amount in the 2019/2020 fiscal year???


Well that was a waste of time.

[GoPacers]

:blahblahblah:

:1rotfl:




ODE: Kind of hanging onto the past aren't we. I did not find ODE as much of an honor when this was handed to me +30 years ago. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


"Assertion"...........not businesses, The Villages. They can and they do. That's why it's value is over a billion dollars.


Why?? To provide housing at a lower price and still maintain their business model, which includes growth, quality & profits.


Not in the last 30 years and probably not in our life times. No where near that point on the curve. No significant hit in the crystal ball.


Now you're just being silly. The CFO of TV does not determine pricing. He's a good guy doing quite well. Leaving money on the table is not a sin, done it many times.



Of course I'm right. How much of the developer's cost is the county paying this year?? What is the actual dollar amount in the 2019/2020 fiscal year???


Well that was a waste of time.

I kind of wondered what the point of the post was too - other than to tell us about an award earned a lifetime ago.:bigbow:

[New Englander]

If only the POA would stick to the business of advocating for the residents and stay out of other issues like politics.

I still wish we had a third group that was more unbiased and less against the developer.

Until then, I will stay away from the POA. Just my opinion.

There are so few issues that really need any group at all. Just call warranty. I think they are awesome.

Did the developer use politicians (Sumter County Commissioners) to get a really sweet deal?

[graciegirl]

Did the developer use politicians (Sumter County Commissioners) to get a really sweet deal?

I have seen no reason not to see it the developer's way. So you can say that. After observing carefully all the doings and goings on for more than fourteen years we have lived here, I have to side with the developer.

I have no agenda other than enjoying the heck out of a beautiful place. Don't sell houses or know the Morses. I am so sorry I never had the opportunity to shake Gary Morse's hand. I would not want the stress that the developers must face with all of the decisions made. They certainly earn and deserve the money.

I am glad to live in such a desirable area and be able to do my fun things with such nice people.

[New Englander]

I have seen no reason not to see it the developer's way. So you can say that. After observing carefully all the doings and goings on for more than fourteen years we have lived here, I have to side with the developer.

I have no agenda other than enjoying the heck out of a beautiful place. Don't sell houses or know the Morses. I am so sorry I never had the opportunity to shake Gary Morse's hand. I would not want the stress that the developers must face with all of the decisions made. They certainly earn and deserve the money.

I am glad to live in such a desirable area and be able to do my fun things with such nice people.

I agree with you. I think TV is a beautiful and extremely desirable place to live. I also have friends here and like the amenities.

Also, I don't begrudge the developer for making lots of money.

However you mentioned how you wish the POA would stay out of politics. I asked if the developer used politicians to get a sweet deal?

[eyc234]

I agree with you. I think TV is a beautiful and extremely desirable place to live. I also have friends here and like the amenities.

Also, I don't begrudge the developer for making lots of money.

However you mentioned how you wish the POA would stay out of politics. I asked if the developer used politicians to get a sweet deal?

Not sure that there is any way to answer with facts or truth from this place. There has been no one that has filed a lawsuit or even found out if a lawsuit could be filed or if any lawyer would take it. There have been all kinds of pontifications, accusations, slander and conspiracies thrown around. No one has provided any proof of anything at all, only their opinions and we know what everyone has as well as opinions.

I asked when all the diatribe about this started a long time back for someone who has facts and undeniable proof that a crime has been committed to take it to court. Politicians being bought is a crime. Still nothing has happened.

The cost to society for maintaining it are a shared responsibility. If residents living in the "new section" to the south should pay all of the cost for expansion and maintenance in "their" area it only goes to reason that they should not pay for the maintenance of roads or facilities north of 44 as they were not here to make them decline. I do not mind spreading cost out among all as this keeps cost down for all and facilities evenly distributed and maintained

[neilbcox]

Sorry eyc234 but you are posting without reading my original post. There was only facts from Sumter County government. We are attempting to raise facts that most people living in The Villages put their heads in the sand and have no clue what the developers are doing. The developers control our local newspapers and radio stations. No one is willing to challenge the developers up until now with a large group of Villagers moving to remove all Sumter County Commissioners who are puppets of the developers. The residents in Sumter County who do not live in The Villages are the major losers for having The Villagers Developers making them pay taxes that cover their cost! Many of the people who posted don’t give a damn about these poor people!

When people slam the ones posting about limited tee time in the Villages it seems that they only play executive courses which are plentiful in the Southern Oaks area. But those of us who play Championship courses find it difficult to get key tee off times. So with 65,000 new home without a new championship course being built in Southern Oaks because the developers who own the Championship courses are not investing in them! They would rather build profitable homes.

Now I am asking questions about if the Villages land company if Federal environmental impact studies have been approved. If they have good for them BUT if they have not then they must stop all construction. Don’t assume they have done this. I have a Freedom of informations request registered today with the FEC! While living in Texas, three residents, including myself, sued Governor Rick Perry and the State of Texas because Perry was attempting to sell state roads Which the taxpayers had already paid for to a Spanish company for developing private toll roads. We won and they lost because they did not do an impact study. Perry backed away from his private toll road direction.

[ColdNoMore]

:1rotfl:


The entire sweetheart deal, where Da Family gets to pass on to taxpayers the responsibility of building the infrastructure necessitated by its continued development...is nothing but PURE politics.

Not to even mention, that advocating for and protecting TV residents interests...is "politics" by definition.

It's analogous to those who think public figures/entertainers shouldn't be allowed to voice their own opinions, particularly if they conflict with their own favorite public figures/entertainer's views. :ohdear:


Definition (click here) (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/politics?s=t)


...use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc.

[dewilson58]

The residents in Sumter County who do not live in The Villages are the major losers for having The Villagers Developers making them pay taxes that cover their cost!


And how much is that???



How much of the $250mil budget for '19/'20 is "cover their cost"???

[dewilson58]

. But those of us who play Championship courses find it difficult to get key tee off times.




I have no problem getting three tee times per week for groups ranging from 4 to 10 players.


As we play, very very rarely do we see a Villages' golf cart on the courses. The "Southern Folks" would have to be on one of these unless they are with a Northerner. Car parking lots at the Clubs are not full at all.


No signs of a massive influx.

[graciegirl]

Please let us know.

I am betting against it.

[TimeForChange]

I just learned recently that the total property tax on the two homes that I own in TV is going up $4500 per year. My current residence is a larger home on a golf course and the other is a smaller property that my wife's mother lives in. I came here eight years ago from the highest property tax county and richest in the Atlanta area. Rate hikes like this would have been phased in over three to five years. I think there was either poor planning by the board or some arm twisting involved. If you don't l like this you can vote (I think two of them) out in the Fall. I was very upset about the increased amount till I thought about the fact that TV is a very unique place owned by a family that has enough pull to get a bridge built across a State turnpike. It is what it is. The down side is that the additional taxed amount will not be spent in businesses that are here and ones that are planning to come here since the majority here are on fixed incomes for the most part. But the upside is that the State of FL does not have a State income tax like most other States. So, if you can afford to live here at over 72 then there is probably no where else as safe and clean and with as many amenities as you will find here. Just my thoughts.

[golfing eagles]

I just learned recently that the total property tax on the two homes that I own in TV is going up $4500 per year. My current residence is a larger home on a golf course and the other is a smaller property that my wife's mother lives in. I came here eight years ago from the highest property tax county and richest in the Atlanta area. Rate hikes like this would have been phased in over three to five years. I think there was either poor planning by the board or some arm twisting involved. If you don't l like this you can vote (I think two of them) out in the Fall. I was very upset about the increased amount till I thought about the fact that TV is a very unique place owned by a family that has enough pull to get a bridge built across a State turnpike. It is what it is. The down side is that the additional taxed amount will not be spent in businesses that are here and ones that are planning to come here since the majority here are on fixed incomes for the most part. But the upside is that the State of FL does not have a State income tax like most other States. So, if you can afford to live here at over 72 then there is probably no where else as safe and clean and with as many amenities as you will find here. Just my thoughts.

I would double check those numbers if I were you. I own a large house on a championship course and my taxes went up $534, so it is unlikely that the two properties you described went up $4500. Check your assessment to see if it went up, especially if the large house is new---the assessment for the previous year might have been for undeveloped land

[neilbcox]

I have no problem getting three tee times per week for groups ranging from 4 to 10 players.


As we play, very very rarely do we see a Villages' golf cart on the courses. The "Southern Folks" would have to be on one of these unless they are with a Northerner. Car parking lots at the Clubs are not full at all.


No signs of a massive influx.
Misguided statement! Since the developers took a major price increase on Championship Courses on Jan 1, 2020 many groups are playing golf outside the Villages.

What you have to consider is the future 65,000 homes (estimated 100,000 in population growth) in Southern Oaks being built what is the further impact on available tee times with only one championship golf course being discussed but not built yet will have!

[golfing eagles]

I just learned recently that the total property tax on the two homes that I own in TV is going up $4500 per year. My current residence is a larger home on a golf course and the other is a smaller property that my wife's mother lives in. I came here eight years ago from the highest property tax county and richest in the Atlanta area. Rate hikes like this would have been phased in over three to five years. I think there was either poor planning by the board or some arm twisting involved. If you don't l like this you can vote (I think two of them) out in the Fall. I was very upset about the increased amount till I thought about the fact that TV is a very unique place owned by a family that has enough pull to get a bridge built across a State turnpike. It is what it is. The down side is that the additional taxed amount will not be spent in businesses that are here and ones that are planning to come here since the majority here are on fixed incomes for the most part. But the upside is that the State of FL does not have a State income tax like most other States. So, if you can afford to live here at over 72 then there is probably no where else as safe and clean and with as many amenities as you will find here. Just my thoughts.

I would double check those numbers if I were you. I own a large house on a championship course and my taxes went up $534, so it is unlikely that the two properties you described went up $4500. Check your assessment to see if it went up, especially if the large house is new---the assessment for the previous year might have been for undeveloped land

Actually you REALLY need to recheck those numbers. The county tax millage rate went from 5.3365 to 6.700 (a 23.8% increase). This is a difference of 1.3635, so a $4,500 increase in your tax implies that your two properties are assessed at 4500/.0013635=$3,300,300, which seems highly unlikely

[GoPacers]

Misguided statement! Since the developers took a major price increase on Championship Courses on Jan 1, 2020 many groups are playing golf outside the Villages.

What you have to consider is the future 65,000 homes (estimated 100,000 in population growth) in Southern Oaks being built what is the further impact on available tee times with only one championship golf course being discussed but not built yet will have!

If the demand is being met by courses outside The Villages (as you clearly note) then it would seem the developer is doing exactly what they should be doing - not overbuilding and creating excess capacity. Those that are willing to pay the increased rates are enjoying the championship courses within The Villages and those that are not seem to be happily enjoying the courses outside The Villages. I fail to see why that is a big issue???

[neilbcox]

If the demand is being met by courses outside The Villages (as you clearly note) then it would seem the developer is doing exactly what they should be doing - not overbuilding and creating excess capacity. Those that are willing to pay the increased rates are enjoying the championship courses within The Villages and those that are not seem to be happily enjoying the courses outside The Villages. I fail to see why that is a big issue???
I don’t understand why people are missing the main point. Everything is working out great at this moment in time BUT add 100,000 new villagers and see what happens to available tee times.

You do make a good point about the developers are raising rates to reduce the number of Championship players. The main reason they did this now is so that they do not need to invest in Championship golf courses down south!

[graciegirl]

I don’t understand why people are missing the main point. Everything is working out great at this moment in time BUT add 100,000 new villagers and see what happens to available tee times.

You do make a good point about the developers are raising rates to reduce the number of Championship players. The main reason they did this now is so that they do not need to invest in Championship golf courses down south!

I have learned one thing living here.

WAIT AND SEE.

[Bogie Shooter]

Misguided statement! Since the developers took a major price increase on Championship Courses on Jan 1, 2020 many groups are playing golf outside the Villages.

What you have to consider is the future 65,000 homes (estimated 100,000 in population growth) in Southern Oaks being built what is the further impact on available tee times with only one championship golf course being discussed but not built yet will have!

And how many of that 100,000 are golfers? Why are golf courses being closed all over the country.? Maybe these new residents are not interested in golf......YOU don’t really know....do you?

[rustyp]

I have learned one thing living here.

WAIT AND SEE.

Correct - a bunch of folks down Fenny way are doing just that.

[graciegirl]

Correct - a bunch of folks down Fenny way are doing just that.

We are a tad spoiled here. How far away is the nearest Championship Golf course to them? To any of us?

I think this is high season and he who plays 18 holes in our family four days a week has not complained about difficulty getting tee times.

[Craig Vernon]

I have read all fifteen pages of this post, no life right. As someone who is looking at home values in the TV I have one relevant comment... Your home values compared to other places in Florida DO NOT reflect a problem they are soaring. I know equity doesn't spend on a fixed income or make up for an assumed promise but apparently the developers financial model works.

[dewilson58]

Since the developers took a major price increase on Championship Courses on Jan 1, 2020 many groups are playing golf outside the Villages.

(estimated 100,000 in population growth) in Southern Oaks being built what is the further impact on available tee times


:1rotfl:




:1rotfl:





You are arguing against yourself......"Many groups are playing outside" and "100,000 new golfers will impact availability". Since all the "Southern Folks" need to get in their car and drive to a course, they won't play TV's courses according to your logic.

[tophcfa]

:1rotfl:




:1rotfl:





You are arguing against yourself......"Many groups are playing outside" and "100,000 new golfers will impact availability". Since all the "Southern Folks" need to get in their car and drive to a course, they won't play TV's courses according to your logic.

The “southern folks” bought knowing they would need to get in their car and drive to a course.

The “northern folks” bought knowing they could get in their golf cart and drive to several different Championship courses. What they didn’t know was that the Villages was going to double in size while adding little to no new Championship Golf, seriously diluting and increasing the cost of their golfing opportunities.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No, I think you are missing the point.

A "developer" buys land, builds something on it, and then sells it FOR A PROFIT. The difference between his costs and his revenue is his profit margin. Yes, you can put additional costs on the developer, but those costs just get passed on to the consumer. People have argued that he can't pass on all his costs, but guess what---HE CAN. The only thing that keeps the profit margin in check is competition, but there is nothing around here that can compete with TV. I know nothing about Collier County, but it would seem strange that a developer would have to build PUBLIC libraries and PUBLIC police stations at his cost. In effect, that would be the reverse of what you object to----people in a specific development paying for services for the county as a whole

So now, I have to ask, do YOU live in TV or just in a surrounding area of Sumter County?

The thing is, the developer can only pass on the added cost of increased impact fees on any given unit ONCE. Exactly once. Once someone buys that unit, it is no longer the developer's. The new homeowner will, or will not, profit from sale of his/her home once he/she chooses to sell it.

Compare to the developer getting a deal and passing on the savings to the homeowner. That homeowner will benefit just once. And every single year, he will pay the price via taxes. Every year. Not just once. For every single year he owns that home, he will pay for what the developer didn't pay, that one time when the initial impact fee was charged.

In the end, after 10, 20, maybe 30 years, the homeowner will have paid MUCH more in taxes, to make up for the amount they WOULD have paid, if the impact fee to the developer was higher in the first place.

[dewilson58]

The “southern folks” bought knowing they would need to get in their car and drive to a course.

The “northern folks” bought knowing they could get in their golf cart and drive to several different Championship courses. What they didn’t know was that the Villages was going to double in size while adding little to no new Championship Golf, seriously diluting and increasing the cost of their golfing opportunities.


I may have not been clear in my response to the other post......seems like you misunderstood my response. I was responding to the poster's contradicting statement.



I understand and don't disagree with your post.


But when I purchased..............like the song, I was never promised a rose garden.


:coolsmiley:

[Buffalo Jim]

When did this site allow political discussions and political promotion . OPs statement " ...... vote the current commissioners out " sounds very political to me !

[Advogado]

When did this site allow political discussions and political promotion . OPs statement " ...... vote the current commissioners out " sounds very political to me !
Why do you want to cut off discussion about a subject as important as this one?

[graciegirl]

Posts have been deleted for a variety of reasons and left to stay for a variety of reasons. One of the current posters said his real name on purpose.

Some of the following posts were deleted.

I think many of us are confused sometimes because of these rather vague perimeters.

I hope and believe that most people can see through the posts on this thread.

[Advogado]

To sum up: There are only two sources of funds for the new county roads necessitated by the Developer's massive sprawl of The Villages: the Developer, through increasing his present sweetheart impact fee, or the residents, through higher property taxes. The Developer's County Commissioners have chosen the latter.

A few posters seem to argue that we shouldn't care about this because if the Developer's sweetheart impact fee were increased, he would magically pass on his higher cost to the new-home buyers. But think about it. Businesses cannot simply pass on higher costs to their customers. If they could, no business would ever go bankrupt.

Likewise, if the Developer could increase his house prices to cover say a $10,000/house increase in his impact fee without suffering a decline in sales that would more than offset the higher price, he would have already increased his housing prices by $10,000. In effect, what would happen is that, with a realistic impact fee, the Developer would try to increase prices to the extent the market would permit, but would end up taking a profit hit. That is why he has told his County Commissioners to keep his impact fee low.

But to the extent the cost of a realistic impact fee ends up divided between the Developer and the new-home buyers, that should be fine with the current residents of Sumter County. The cost of the infrastructure necessitated by The Villages massive sprawl would then be borne by both the Developer and the buyers of the new houses—exactly the ones who caused the infrastructure expansion, not by the current residents.

[dewilson58]

To sum up: .




Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[starflyte1]

A 30 year contract with NO bids IS a problem!

[dewilson58]

A 30 year contract with NO bids IS a problem!




And what exactly does that contract state??

[Advogado]

And what exactly does that contract state??

Whatever the Developer wanted it to state.

[Bogie Shooter]

Sum up?

[dewilson58]

Whatever the Developer wanted it to state.






That's my point...................You have no idea what is in the contract, yet you are up in arms about it.


Plus, you have no idea how many county tax dollars are being spent this year for "developer costs", yet you are up in arms about it.


:boom:

[Advogado]

That's my point...................You have no idea what is in the contract, yet you are up in arms about it.


Plus, you have no idea how many county tax dollars are being spent this year for "developer costs", yet you are up in arms about it.


:boom:
The original poster gave a pretty good summary of it, which is in accordance with my understanding of the contract. Please re-read the original post.

You seem to always be asking others to do your research for you. You want details about the contract, go to the Sumter County website and start digging. Asking questions, and contributing no facts, allows you to divert attention from the issues raised by the original poster.

The central point is that the Developer's County Commissioners have offloaded what the Orlando Sentinel reported to be $186 million of road costs, caused by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villagers, on to the taxpayers of Sumter County. The Developer's County Commissioners did this instead of increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. The details of the contract that you refer to are secondary. How about sticking to the central point instead of nitpicking?

[dewilson58]

The original poster gave a pretty good summary of it, which is in accordance with my understanding of the contract. Please re-read the original post.

You seem to always be asking others to do your research for you. You want details about the contract, go to the Sumter County website and start digging. Asking questions, and contributing no facts, allows you to divert attention from the issues raised by the original poster.

The central point is that the Developer's County Commissioners have offloaded what the Orlando Sentinel reported to be $186 million of road costs, caused by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villagers, on to the taxpayers of Sumter County. The Developer's County Commissioners did this instead of increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. The details of the contract that you refer to are secondary. How about sticking to the central point instead of nitpicking?




No, I wish you would do your research and be educated with the facts.


You will learn, the reporting by OS is headline grabbing......may not be the entire story. There is a difference between existing county road work dollars and creating county roads for a developer. The county is responsible for improvements and upgrades to their existing roads.


I have the details of the Sumter County budget. Again.....educate yourself. The highlights are: The 2019/2020 budget increased from ~$200mil to ~$250mil. $14mil went to the General Fund for Fire/Policy/Admin/etc. as a result of the County's expansion.



The other big increase was in the Special Projects Fund. Special Project details start on page 19 of the approved budget. A lot of dollars are going to resurfacing projects and traffic management systems.


As far as the contract..................I've read it. Do yourself a favor and don't rely on random posters on the internet.


I have the facts. Learn the fact..............they will set you free!!



:ho:

[Marathon Man]

Enough please. Those that are driving a nail with a sledge hammer seem to think that the rest of us need 'help' to understand. Disagreement does not mean lack of understanding.

[FriscoKid]

Re:

You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!

- -
To get back to the beginning of this discussion, the argument around who should be paying for various infrastructure costs associated with development has been an on-going battle for as long as I can remember (I first moved to FL back in 1985) and I'm sure was going on way before that.

From my perspective, there are basically 3 choices; the developer (who will try and transfer this cost back to the new buyers), the new buyers, and the existing land owners/residents. The latter residents often resent the the fact that their taxes are inevitably increasing. Hence this whole thread.

Now, on the plus side, existing landowners/residents will find themselves enjoying enhanced economic prospects and will often "cash-out" to a windfall property value increases due to the development. (We are currently seeing that in the southern area as Warm Springs begins to be developed beyond the borders of the Villages of Southern Oaks and old-time property owners are able to sell at a profit.) I saw this play out in Palm Beach County 30 years ago and it continues down there even to this day.

I personally love what is going on down in my area (I'll refer to it generally as the VOSO) and with the CDD structure, I certainly feel like I am paying for my share of the infrastructure. This discussion is more about the non-villages infrastructure. (i.e. it is not tied directly to land that the developer is developing, but rather the areas surrounding it.) I can certainly sympathize with the sentiments of the original post and it's fair to talk about impact fees, but to think that this is a new phenomena is incorrect or to somehow tie it all back to The Morse family (The Developer) is missing the bigger context (imo).

The infrastructure costs are for things that we all are/will be benefiting from; new residents and old alike.
- -

[dewilson58]

Enough please. Those that are driving a nail with a sledge hammer seem to think that the rest of us need 'help' to understand. Disagreement does not mean lack of understanding.




:ho:

[Advogado]

No, I wish you would do your research and be educated with the facts.


You will learn, the reporting by OS is headline grabbing......may not be the entire story. There is a difference between existing county road work dollars and creating county roads for a developer. The county is responsible for improvements and upgrades to their existing roads.


I have the details of the Sumter County budget. Again.....educate yourself. The highlights are: The 2019/2020 budget increased from ~$200mil to ~$250mil. $14mil went to the General Fund for Fire/Policy/Admin/etc. as a result of the County's expansion.



The other big increase was in the Special Projects Fund. Special Project details start on page 19 of the approved budget. A lot of dollars are going to resurfacing projects and traffic management systems.


As far as the contract..................I've read it. Do yourself a favor and don't rely on random posters on the internet.


I have the facts. Learn the fact..............they will set you free!!



:ho:

So, what is the correct figure, in your estimation, as to how much Sumter County will spend in roads due to The Villages new sprawl? You don't seem to have a clue. Why do you think we just had the big tax increase, or are you going to allege that that is a figment of my imagination?


You seem to forget, as I explained before, all the roads will not be built in 2020. Do you have a better number than the Orlando Sentinel's $186 million? In fairness to you, the exact number is hard to come by, but I will trust the number of a professional journalist, as opposed to the vague numbers that you are throwing around.

You do notice that the County Commission did not correct the figure used in the Orlando Sentinel, which the Commission clearly would have been aware of. Had the Orlando Sentinel's number been wrong, one would think that the Commission would have corrected it.

But, despite your smoke blowing, the exact number is not the real issue. The real issue is: Why did the County Commissioners preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and impose a massive tax hike on the residents to pay for Developer-caused infrastructure? Do you have an answer for that question? (Actually, the answer as to "why" is pretty obvious.)

To help you understand better what is going on, read the editorial about The Villages growth and the Developer's "puppet" County Commissioners in today's issue of the on-line newspaper. Once you understand, perhaps you will join the movement to clean up the County Commission.

[dewilson58]

.




When you rely on agenda publications, your view is very negative and many facts are not known. "Professional Journalists"...........wow, that is enlightening. An editorial (as your reference point) = "a newspaper article written by or on behalf of an editor that gives an opinion on a topical issue
"


I prefer the source documents: The Budget & The Contract.



By looking at the source document, you will find the expenditure drivers behind the tax increase. I'm not a lover of any increase, but with facts (not opinions) I have an understanding.


Why?? The County is required to cover the expenditures of the approved budget. Period.


I understand the expenditures, I understand the County must balance their budget. My only question is; without the tax base currently in place to cover the expenditures, should some of the expenditures be covered with a bond issuance. Thereby matching expenditures with revenues. :shrug: I have not heard the County's pro's & con's of this process.

[neilbcox]

That's my point...................You have no idea what is in the contract, yet you are up in arms about it.


Plus, you have no idea how many county tax dollars are being spent this year for "developer costs", yet you are up in arms about it.


:boom:
I have a copy of the 30 year sole source no bid sweetheart contract. You can visit Sumter County website and download it also. Stop being so lazy!

The only thing the developers had to commit to was building a new town center in Sumter County within those 30 years and keep the pretty flowers same as northern areas!

[neilbcox]

When as the last time you have seen truck weight limits signs on The Villages road. Trick question! Why would Sumter county allow 60,000+ pound trucks used by the developer’s contractors on roads that are not rated for that much weight? Because they know we as taxpayers will foot the bill just like we are doing to repair the pot holes on Morse and Buena Vista.

[Marathon Man]

When as the last time you have seen truck weight limits signs on The Villages road. Trick question! Why would Sumter county allow 60,000+ pound trucks used by the developer’s contractors on roads that are not rated for that much weight? Because they know we as taxpayers will foot the bill just like we are doing to repair the pot holes on Morse and Buena Vista.

Interesting point. Can you tell us what the weight limitation is?

[dewilson58]

Stop being so lazy!






Not lazy mam, I have it already.


:welcome: