Boeing Asking for $60 Billion Bailout

[collie1228]

Interesting to read that Boeing is asking for a $60 Billion bailout from the federal government. I also read in the Financial Times that between 2013 and the end of the first quarter of 2019, Boeing repurchased 200 million shares of its own stock, handing back $43 billion to its stockholders. The number of outstanding shares came down by 25 per cent. On top of that, the 737 Max debacle happened, causes solely by mismanagement at the highest levels, has cost them billions in profits as well. And now they want a bailout. If anyone should be refused a cash infusion from the government, it's Boeing.

[Chatbrat]

I have to disagree Boeing is a strategic resource--the company is vital to our national defense--if they fold -we are very vulnerable

[vilger]

I have to disagree Boeing is a strategic resource--the company is vital to our national defense--if they fold -we are very vulnerable

Boeing should be allowed to go bankrupt if they can't extricate themselves from the mess that they created for themselves. Bankruptcy does not mean that the company will cease to operate; it just means that the current stockholders will be wiped out, and the current creditors will become the new stockholders. The company can then start anew with no debt. GM went bankrupt during the Great Recession; the stockholders were wiped out but the company still exists. The taxpayers should not be on the hook for corporate mistakes; it's called Capitalism.

[skarra]

Boeing should be allowed to go bankrupt if they can't extricate themselves from the mess that they created for themselves. Bankruptcy does not mean that the company will cease to operate; it just means that the current stockholders will be wiped out, and the current creditors will become the new stockholders. The company can then start anew with no debt. GM went bankrupt during the Great Recession; the stockholders were wiped out but the company still exists. The taxpayers should not be on the hook for corporate mistakes; it's called Capitalism.

Are you saying that Corona Virus is Boeing's fault?

By the same logic, we should let all the small business owners along with restaurants, hotels, airlines just go out of business and let someone or something else come along to replace it. Survival of the fittest. Very Darwinian. (could apply the same principle to people too I suppose)

[petsetc]

On a different note, $60 Billion given equally to all US citizens would give every man,woman,child about $183. I do not believe in trickle down, but I do believe the virtually everyone who got $183. would spend it creating a big economic boost.

And if Boeing went bankrupt, perhaps Warren Buffet would buy it and fix it. He is not as interested in making officers and stockholders immediately rich as most current managements are.

[ureout]

I have to disagree Boeing is a strategic resource--the company is vital to our national defense--if they fold -we are very vulnerable

before a bail out make sure their top execs. give back their mulit million dollar bonuses they have received over the years... they knew they had a problem and ignored it... some of them sshould go to jail


below was their compensation for 2018...

NAME AND TITLE TOTAL COMPENSATION TITLE
In Transportation industry
J. Michael Luttig
Executive Vice President and General Counsel
$7,810,598


#4
View more
Dennis A. Muilenburg
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer
$23,392,187


#2
View more
Gregory D. Smith
Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President, Enterprise Performance and Strategy
$8,682,058

#2
View more
Leanne G. Caret
Executive Vice President, President and Chief Executive Officer, Boeing Defense, Space & Security
$10,727,525


#3
View more
Gregory L. Hyslop
Chief Technology Officer and Senior Vice President, Boeing Engineering, Test & Technology
$8,567,157

[Aces4]

On a different note, $60 Billion given equally to all US citizens would give every man,woman,child about $183. I do not believe in trickle down, but I do believe the virtually everyone who got $183. would spend it creating a big economic boost.

And if Boeing went bankrupt, perhaps Warren Buffet would buy it and fix it. He is not as interested in making officers and stockholders immediately rich as most current managements are.

Bingo!!!

[karostay]

Why have not have Washington out source to China our strategic defense like everything else
They've been selling us out for 50 years

[wine5465]

Or these companies could do what local governments do and keep reserves for emergencies. I dont see them sharing their profits with us, the taxpayers. These CEOs make these huge bonuses but obviously did not earn them by putting fail safes in check. I think the CEOs should be fined heavily for mismanagement of these companies. This is why Sarbanes Oxley act came into being.

[Andyb]

That’s why Nicki Haley resigned from the board.

[dewilson58]

Interesting to read that Boeing is asking for a $60 Billion bailout from the federal government.




Bailout vs. a loan.

[JGVillages]

The Fed should get stock/equity in these highly leveraged companies instead of a bailout/ loan.

[Windguy]

I have to disagree Boeing is a strategic resource--the company is vital to our national defense--if they fold -we are very vulnerable
If they are too big to fail then they should be broken up into smaller companies.

[biker1]

If they pay back the requested $60B loan why should the Feds get stock/equity?

The Fed should get stock/equity in these highly leveraged companies instead of a bailout/ loan.

[dewilson58]

The Fed should get stock/equity in these highly leveraged companies instead of a bailout/ loan.




Socialism, no thanks.

[biker1]

Please provide a list of what the Boeing executives have done that violated the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, with references to the exact provisions of the law.

Or these companies could do what local governments do and keep reserves for emergencies. I dont see them sharing their profits with us, the taxpayers. These CEOs make these huge bonuses but obviously did not earn them by putting fail safes in check. I think the CEOs should be fined heavily for mismanagement of these companies. This is why Sarbanes Oxley act came into being.

[DeanFL]

Just heard on the news that Delta is burning thru $50 million every day. Personally - if the airlines get a "bailout", it should be delivered in a large suitcase to each - with a $1million baggage fee.

[Doglover9409]

Their rich execs should bail them out not taxpayers. Bail out the laid-off workers instead

[OhioBuckeye]

Interesting to read that Boeing is asking for a $60 Billion bailout from the federal government. I also read in the Financial Times that between 2013 and the end of the first quarter of 2019, Boeing repurchased 200 million shares of its own stock, handing back $43 billion to its stockholders. The number of outstanding shares came down by 25 per cent. On top of that, the 737 Max debacle happened, causes solely by mismanagement at the highest levels, has cost them billions in profits as well. And now they want a bailout. If anyone should be refused a cash infusion from the government, it's Boeing.
Yea, & I’m only asking for $5,000.

[kenoc7]

Socialism, no thanks.

You clearly don't know what socialism is. It is probably the most misused word in America.

"The term socialism refers to any system in which the production and distribution of goods and services is a shared responsibility of a group of people. Socialism is based upon economic and political theories that advocate for collectivism. In a state of socialism, there is no privately owned property."

[sparky4840]

No tears on my end. Corporate greed at it's finest.

[Bay Kid]

Bring all jobs back to our country. We, America, can do this!

[Challenger]

Interesting to read that Boeing is asking for a $60 Billion bailout from the federal government. I also read in the Financial Times that between 2013 and the end of the first quarter of 2019, Boeing repurchased 200 million shares of its own stock, handing back $43 billion to its stockholders. The number of outstanding shares came down by 25 per cent. On top of that, the 737 Max debacle happened, causes solely by mismanagement at the highest levels, has cost them billions in profits as well. And now they want a bailout. If anyone should be refused a cash infusion from the government, it's Boeing.

A strategic industry that must survive in some form for our own security. Bankruptcy with Stock and bondholders, taking the hit. US becomes creditor in bankruptcy , if no one else steps up. Moderate interest rates and some sort of warrants for their loan. No stock buy backs allowed until full loan repayment + 2 yrs. Limit on executive bonuses during same period.

[ColdNoMore]

Socialism, no thanks.:1rotfl:

Way too late to shut...THAT barn door. :oops:

It's ironic that some folks don't seem to even understand the definition of "Socialism," even while it's been happening for decades...to large corporations.

I will never understand those who think self-inflicted wounds deserve "socialism/bailouts," like what's been happening to farmers since the tariff's (twice as much so far, as compared to auto industry in 2008/2009...except auto companies paid most of it back)...but not to poor and needy AMERICAN citizens. :ohdear:

[dougjb]

If any bailout occurs for a publicly owned company, please keep in mind that is a very socialist type of affair. In capitalism, while there is the opportunity for great gain, there is always a risk of total failure.

But, if the administration wants to bailout any publicly owned company, I would recommend the following:

1) The government gets shares in the company equivalent to the government's investment.

2) The government gets seats on the board.

3) No executive of the publicly owned company will be paid an income (and shares and options) in excess of what a US Congressperson is paid...now about 180,000 per year.

4) There will be no benefits paid to any corporate officer in excess of that which accrue to Members of Congress.

5) If the bailout succeeds, the government will be able to cash out its bailout at then prevailing prices for the shares owned by the government.

If we are capitalist, then lets be capitalist. But, corporate bailiouts are simply a form of socialism.

[Megabates]

I have to disagree Boeing is a strategic resource--the company is vital to our national defense--if they fold -we are very vulnerable

Boeing is absolutly vital to our defense

[retiredguy123]

If any bailout occurs for a publicly owned company, please keep in mind that is a very socialist type of affair. In capitalism, while there is the opportunity for great gain, there is always a risk of total failure.

But, if the administration wants to bailout any publicly owned company, I would recommend the following:

1) The government gets shares in the company equivalent to the government's investment.

2) The government gets seats on the board.

3) No executive of the publicly owned company will be paid an income (and shares and options) in excess of what a US Congressperson is paid...now about 180,000 per year.

4) There will be no benefits paid to any corporate officer in excess of that which accrue to Members of Congress.

5) If the bailout succeeds, the government will be able to cash out its bailout at then prevailing prices for the shares owned by the government.

If we are capitalist, then lets be capitalist. But, corporate bailiouts are simply a form of socialism.
That sounds good to me. But, I think a company that was bailed out under those conditions would probably go out of business faster than if they weren't bailed out at all.

[Dilligas]

The Fed should get stock/equity in these highly leveraged companies instead of a bailout/ loan.

No thanks.....if the Fed got stock equity, then the congress and senate would believe they had the right and knowledge to run the company. They can't even run their own business of government....we the tax payers have to bail them out.

US and the world needs Boeing.....to compete with China and Airbus. If the management needs investigating and charging, OK, but the company is needed.

[dewilson58]

You clearly don't know what socialism is.




bac at u:


a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

[JGVillages]

If any bailout occurs for a publicly owned company, please keep in mind that is a very socialist type of affair. In capitalism, while there is the opportunity for great gain, there is always a risk of total failure.

But, if the administration wants to bailout any publicly owned company, I would recommend the following:

1) The government gets shares in the company equivalent to the government's investment.

2) The government gets seats on the board.

3) No executive of the publicly owned company will be paid an income (and shares and options) in excess of what a US Congressperson is paid...now about 180,000 per year.

4) There will be no benefits paid to any corporate officer in excess of that which accrue to Members of Congress.

5) If the bailout succeeds, the government will be able to cash out its bailout at then prevailing prices for the shares owned by the government.

If we are capitalist, then lets be capitalist. But, corporate bailiouts are simply a form of socialism.

Excellent idea. I am not sure our POLITICIANS have enough BUSINESS sense to think of this much less implement it.

[golfjuly11]

So true!!! Just ask any former or current military personnel who has protected our Great Nation here and abroad.

[ffresh]

Excellent idea. I am not sure our POLITICIANS have enough BUSINESS sense to think of this much less implement it.

If any bailout occurs for a publicly owned company, please keep in mind that is a very socialist type of affair. In capitalism, while there is the opportunity for great gain, there is always a risk of total failure.

But, if the administration wants to bailout any publicly owned company, I would recommend the following:

1) The government gets shares in the company equivalent to the government's investment.

2) The government gets seats on the board.

3) No executive of the publicly owned company will be paid an income (and shares and options) in excess of what a US Congressperson is paid...now about 180,000 per year.

4) There will be no benefits paid to any corporate officer in excess of that which accrue to Members of Congress.

5) If the bailout succeeds, the government will be able to cash out its bailout at then prevailing prices for the shares owned by the government.

If we are capitalist, then lets be capitalist. But, corporate bailiouts are simply a form of socialism.

To be clear … what you are proposing is fascism, first promulgated by Mussolini, whereby ownership remains in private hands but manufacturing decisions are controlled by the government. This was actually practiced by FDR and mistakenly referred to as socialism by many.

Fred

[retiredguy123]

Excellent idea. I am not sure our POLITICIANS have enough BUSINESS sense to think of this much less implement it.
Well, I am absolutely certain that they could not implement it.

[cholland]

I agree with the idea that the Government should buy stock up to the amount necessary to keep Boeing alive. It is a critical resource,even if recently poorly managed. The Government will allow Boeing to buy back the stock during better times at market prices
.

[biker1]

Bad idea since Boeing would have to issue new shares to realize any capital. This would reduce the value of existing shares. The Government can loan Boeing the money they need.


I agree with the idea that the Government should buy stock up to the amount necessary to keep Boeing alive. It is a critical resource,even if recently poorly managed. The Government will allow Boeing to buy back the stock during better times at market prices
.

[Topspinmo]

Why have not have Washington out source to China our strategic defense like everything else
They've been selling us out for 50 years

Let China buy it like government did with Chrysler sell to fiat. GM should of NOT got bailout, went to VIPs retirements fund and unions.

[Topspinmo]

Boeing downfall is the 737 max, bad programming, bad training, bad decisions. Expect government hand out again after over charge government for all contracts they got. Let it go bankrupt.

[Topspinmo]

Please provide a list of what the Boeing executives have done that violated the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, with references to the exact provisions of the law.

First on list. 737 max.

[biker1]

OK, fine. Now explain exactly which provision of the law was violated. Have charges, related to the law in question, been brought against Boeing?

First on list. 737 max.

[biker1]

So let me get this straight. Boeing has overcharged the Government for ALL contracts? Please provide evidence to support such a claim.

Boeing downfall is the 737 max, bad programming, bad training, bad decisions. Expect government hand out again after over charge government for all contracts they got. Let it go bankrupt.

[rmd2]

Boeing downfall is the 737 max, bad programming, bad training, bad decisions. Expect government hand out again after over charge government for all contracts they got. Let it go bankrupt.

That is exactly what happened. The engineers warned Boeing about the bad design of moving the engines further up on the wings. This made the planes non-aerodynamic. Then they had 2 computer systems fighting against each other to remedy the problem and finally to save money Boeing did NOT tell the pilots about this or give them the required training. Boeing SHOULD go under!

[dwhite5773]

Boeing should be allowed to go bankrupt if they can't extricate themselves from the mess that they created for themselves. Bankruptcy does not mean that the company will cease to operate; it just means that the current stockholders will be wiped out, and the current creditors will become the new stockholders. The company can then start anew with no debt. GM went bankrupt during the Great Recession; the stockholders were wiped out but the company still exists. The taxpayers should not be on the hook for corporate mistakes; it's called Capitalism.
Oh, I’m sure who would come back and take over all of the lost business: C-H-I-N-A! There we go, let Boeing, GM, Ford, restaurants (that’s what we need more of China Buffet) all go under! Make you wonder? 🤔

[Kenswing]

That is exactly what happened. The engineers warned Boeing about the bad design of moving the engines further up on the wings. This made the planes non-aerodynamic. Then they had 2 computer systems fighting against each other to remedy the problem and finally to save money Boeing did NOT tell the pilots about this or give them the required training. Boeing SHOULD go under!

That's 153,000 good paying jobs you're willing to throw away..

[Bay Kid]

We should bring ALL jobs back to our country. Jobs and security. We should never depend on others for our necessities that really don't like us.

[collie1228]

I totally agree that Boeing is a critical industry, but in our system, stockholders take risks to earn rewards (dividends, higher stock prices, etc.) This is a classic case of stockholders betting on a management team that turned out to be good at the financials, creating a lot of wealth for stockholders over a long period, but ended up showing that they have no idea how to run a technological giant like Boeing. This company is famous for its engineering proficiency over decades, then for some reason, someone decided that the engineering-focused top managers should be replaced by finance and marketing-focused people, and the result is a complete disaster. If Boeing is to get a bailout, it should be conditioned on a complete restructuring of the company, replacing its current CEO office and board of directors, and forcing current stockholders to pay a significant price for betting on an incompetent management team. Maybe in the future they may prioritize good engineering and safety, with less pressure on the financials.

[biker1]

That is just silly talk. If you bothered to look, you would have seen that Boeing is the second largest defense contractor. The commercial business (737, 747, 777, 787, etc.) is about half of the total revenue. You are suggesting that a company that is crucial to our national defense should go under because of an issue with one of their several commercial planes? That makes a lot of sense.

That is exactly what happened. The engineers warned Boeing about the bad design of moving the engines further up on the wings. This made the planes non-aerodynamic. Then they had 2 computer systems fighting against each other to remedy the problem and finally to save money Boeing did NOT tell the pilots about this or give them the required training. Boeing SHOULD go under!