A sobering reality...

[Koapaka]

Israeli doctor in Italy: We no longer help those over 60 - The Jerusalem Post (https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856)

[Velvet]

Wow!! So those over 60 in Italy are welcome to die??

[Koapaka]

Wow!! So those over 60 in Italy are welcome to die??


Sadly that is the way "Battlefield Triage" works...you have to use the resources you have on those who have the best chance of survival.

It is sad, but a reality with mass casualty situations.

[coffeebean]

Sadly that is the way "Battlefield Triage" works...you have to use the resources you have on those who have the best chance of survival.

It is sad, but a reality with mass casualty situations.

What will they do if they have a 65 year old physician who is currently practicing medicine vs a 24 year old felon? Hmmmm.

Just a thought. Maybe I should just stop thinking about all this.

[Koapaka]

Understand Coffeebean, but lets face it, we are not all going to be treated equally. Evidently Angela Merkel has been exposed by her doctor, is in "quarantine status" and per the article, "She will be tested regularly over the coming days and will continue to conduct her duties as chancellor from home."
Figure the odds any of us would get "regular tests". RHIP I suppose. SMH

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/22/chancellor-angela-merkel-in-quarantine-after-contact-with-doctor-who-tested-positive-for-coronavirus.html

[Gpsma]

All scaremongering...like all of this

[blueash]

Israeli doctor in Italy: We no longer help those over 60 - The Jerusalem Post (https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856)

Your summary is a bit in error. The J Post story reports that the hospitals in Northern Italy where the situation is beyond desperate are unable to provide respirators to those over 60. They are still providing all other supportive care. I would point out to those who still think this is a hoax and that it is all scaremongering that as of 5 PM Sunday, now, the reported numbers for Italy per Johns Hopkins dashboard are:

Confirmed Cases 59,138
Deaths 5476

That is a fatality rate of 9.3 %. This greatly exceeds the death rate in other countries, so far. I cannot begin to imagine the psychological stress that the health care workers are facing. Seeing that many people die, not having the equipment to do what you are trained to do, and of course the fear that you and your family are next to get ill. Russia is reportedly sending supplies (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-03-22/russian-army-to-send-coronavirus-help-to-italy-after-putin-phone-call) and medical personnel to Italy to help. We are offering aid to North Korea (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/north-korea-trump/index.html).

[asianthree]

So don’t move to Italy

[GoodLife]

Confirmed Cases 59,138
Deaths 5476

That is a fatality rate of 9.3 %. This greatly exceeds the death rate in other countries, so far. I cannot begin to imagine the psychological stress that the health care workers are facing. Seeing that many people die, not having the equipment to do what you are trained to do, and of course the fear that you and your family are next to get ill. Russia is reportedly sending supplies (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-03-22/russian-army-to-send-coronavirus-help-to-italy-after-putin-phone-call) and medical personnel to Italy to help. We are offering aid to North Korea (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/north-korea-trump/index.html).


According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of Health

Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says"

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy? (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/)

[EdFNJ]

From SNOPES.COM: Has Italy Stopped Treating the Elderly in the COVID-19 Pandemic? (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/italy-elderly-coronavirus/)


What's True

Italian health care workers who are overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases could be faced with decisions about allocating limited life-saving treatment to those with the most likelihood to live longest upon survival.

What's False

However, Italy hasn't abandoned elderly patients to die. Instead, Italian health care workers, when faced with more patients than available equipment and capacity to treat them, may possibly be forced to prioritize treatment of those with the highest likelihood of surviving long-term.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Your summary is a bit in error. The J Post story reports that the hospitals in Northern Italy where the situation is beyond desperate are unable to provide respirators to those over 60. They are still providing all other supportive care. I would point out to those who still think this is a hoax and that it is all scaremongering that as of 5 PM Sunday, now, the reported numbers for Italy per Johns Hopkins dashboard are:

Confirmed Cases 59,138
Deaths 5476

That is a fatality rate of 9.3 %. This greatly exceeds the death rate in other countries, so far. I cannot begin to imagine the psychological stress that the health care workers are facing. Seeing that many people die, not having the equipment to do what you are trained to do, and of course the fear that you and your family are next to get ill. Russia is reportedly sending supplies (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-03-22/russian-army-to-send-coronavirus-help-to-italy-after-putin-phone-call) and medical personnel to Italy to help. We are offering aid to North Korea (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/north-korea-trump/index.html).

We shouldn't be offering aid to North Korea until our own hospitals and other medical centers have the necessary tests and equipment. We have hospitals that don't have enough masks, entire communities affected without sufficient testing.

[Cheapbas]

This story came out a week ago, the hospitals were so overwhelmed and there wasn’t enough life saving equipment for the huge influx of patients. The doctors were put in a position to make decisions who to prioritize.

[villageuser]

According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of Health

Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbi

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy? (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/)

I personally think that is better than in this country, where testing is hardly being done. When some die, they are being marked as having died from the flu or pneumonia. I have no faith in the stating of our actual numbers, and now they’re saying they will probably slow down testing in LA and NYC. What we have learned from other countries, is that testing helps with eradicating this disease. It helps find out who might have been contaminated from exposure to this problem. And we’re going the other way with our strategy?

[Maxsan]

Didn’t notice anyone judging the Italian health care system, free health care might be socially expensive?

[HelenLCSW]

So don’t move to Italy

Unfortunately viruses do not care about geopolitical borders😔

[transplanted]

So don’t move to Italy

Nice if you have a choice.

[270270]

The media loves selective reporting for further its agenda, however should one be so inclined accurate data and news is on the internet. Its sad when one has to fact check the major media outlets for accuracy and truth which is where the US is today. The politicians albeit Trump or the Congress will eventually be gone but the every increasing dishonest and biased press will be there forever and embolden to spread their facts and bias.
USAF C-130s Flew Self-Contained Care Unit to Aviano Air Base in Italy on Friday. The aid from the U.S. military several days ago, and
Russia’s air force beginning today, along with missions from China, Cuba and other nations, support the Italian government’s escalating response to the COVID-19 crisis. The Italian government has deployed troops in some areas to monitor quarantine and help slow the spread of the deadly disease.

[blueash]

According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of Health

Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says"

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy? (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/)

I don't understand the point you are trying to make by cherry picking a piece of the article you linked. What it actually says it that only 12% of patients only had Covid and no other condition that contributed to death. The other 88% had Covid and some other risk that made Covid more lethal. Which is exactly what everyone has been told all along. Those with heart, lung, cancer, diabetic, immune problems... are more at risk of death.

And more significantly the article points out that being elderly was a major factor. Whereas the average age of Covid hospitalized patients in China was 46, it was age 67 in Italy.

Here are the paragraphs, slightly edited
According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health, the country’s mortality rate is far higher due to demographics - the nation has the second oldest population worldwide - and the manner in which hospitals record deaths. ..
This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. ..
But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality

I would offer that I doubt, but do not know, that the air quality in Wuhan is better than Lombardy.

Now back to the original figures. If 12% of fatalities are in victims with no pre-existing conditions that is very significant. It refutes the argument that if you are healthy you're not at risk. I don't know if smoking and exposure to air pollution would have been listed at contributing factors on death certificates. Seems unlikely.

[rlcooper70]

The point here is that they don't have enough respirators. The Germans and French are not sharing respirators. They can't get them anywhere. Who is to die? They decided that its the old people instead of the rich people. The Americans are closing up. Only the Chinese are helping the Italians with medical equipment. Only the Israelis are sending doctors to Italy. Who will Europe see as an ally when this is done? Not us I fear.

[Lindsyburnsy]

That could happen here if we run out of ventilators and staff to operate them. Without masks, gloves, shields etc, our healthcare staff are contracting the virus.

[GoodLife]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make by cherry picking a piece of the article you linked. What it actually says it that only 12% of patients only had Covid and no other condition that contributed to death. The other 88% had Covid and some other risk that made Covid more lethal. Which is exactly what everyone has been told all along. Those with heart, lung, cancer, diabetic, immune problems... are more at risk of death.

And more significantly the article points out that being elderly was a major factor. Whereas the average age of Covid hospitalized patients in China was 46, it was age 67 in Italy.

Here are the paragraphs, slightly edited


I would offer that I doubt, but do not know, that the air quality in Wuhan is better than Lombardy.

Now back to the original figures. If 12% of fatalities are in victims with no pre-existing conditions that is very significant. It refutes the argument that if you are healthy you're not at risk. I don't know if smoking and exposure to air pollution would have been listed at contributing factors on death certificates. Seems unlikely.

I posted in reply to a poster who calculated Italy's death rate due to coronavirus as 9.2% which is way out of whack with rest of world's at 1-2%. As the Italian advisor quoted in article said, the way Italy is coding cause of death may be different. Believe what you like.

[golfing eagles]

Here's the good news----this is NOT Italy. We have far more resources and much better medical care

[Topspinmo]

What will they do if they have a 65 year old physician who is currently practicing medicine vs a 24 year old felon? Hmmmm.

Just a thought. Maybe I should just stop thinking about all this.

Over here the criminals would get treatment, if they didn’t it would what lawyers call cruel and unusual punishment.

[GoodLife]

The point here is that they don't have enough respirators. The Germans and French are not sharing respirators. They can't get them anywhere. Who is to die? They decided that its the old people instead of the rich people. The Americans are closing up. Only the Chinese are helping the Italians with medical equipment. Only the Israelis are sending doctors to Italy. Who will Europe see as an ally when this is done? Not us I fear.

LOL Watch this video of graphics from NYT's article "How the virus got out" and then tell us how China will be seen as an ally.

How The Virus Got Out (c) NYT - YouTube (https://youtu.be/QLB9-i5wEpg)

[ts12755]

Italy's greed of selling all their Manufacturing in Northern Italy to the Chinese was a poor decision. Especially with a direct flight to Wuhan China

[Bill32]

Like the US becoming energy independent, other strategic industries have to be brought back home ...make it here buy it here. I'm not an isolationist but protect America first...any surpluses we can help others with..

[Andyb]

Sad reality of Socialized healthcare