Cruise line bailout ? Why

[dm82444]

The two largest cruise companies operating in the U.S. (Royal Caribbean and Carnival) operate only foreign-flagged ships. All but one of Norwegian Cruise Line's ships are foreign-flagged, and though Disney is a U.S. company, ships operated under the company's umbrella are foreign-built and registered in the Bahamas.

[rustyp]

Hey I thought of that the other day. Bailout money to those cruise ships companies that fly the U.S. flag. We know why they fly foreign flags. What's wrong with you don't get to take until you have given ? How about starting a bailout with something like refunding a companies last year's taxes that they paid. Make that info public before step 2.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The same reason they tried to bail out corporations instead of giving the money *directly* to the workers this last time around (thankfully defeated).

Their excuse to the public: "oh the corporations will make sure that the employees get their share of the money."

The reality: didn't happen with the tax rebate, won't happen with a bailout.

The actual reason: shareholders need better dividends.
Who are the shareholders: primarily people who don't need better dividends to put food on their table.
Who doesn't benefit: employees affected by layoffs, shut-downs, closures, reduced hours, who rely on their jobs to put food on their table.

[Polar Bear]

The same reason they tried to bail out corporations instead of giving the money *directly* to the workers this last time around (thankfully defeated)...
Yeah, we all know that corporations are the devil incarnate. No need to try to help them through this crisis. They're not suffering any setbacks at all. No big deal if they fail, right?

Give me a break. The administration wants to send money directly to the citizens. But he also wants to help companies survive this mess. As it should be.

[golfing eagles]

Yeah, we all know that corporations are the devil incarnate. No need to try to help them through this crisis. They're not suffering any setbacks at all. No big deal if they fail, right?

Give me a break. The administration wants to send money directly to the citizens. But he also wants to help companies survive this mess. As it should be.

But don't forget, if we give money directly to people, there will be a percentage of them( hopefully small) that will bolster beer, cigarette and lottery ticket sales. Time to buy stock in Coors

[sandybill2]

Guess I don't like to word "bailout" used when talking about airlines, cruise lines, etc. These industries are not responsible for what is happening to them. Not a result of bad decisions on their part. As far as the Cruise lines are concerned ---I don't know exact numbers---but I am sure they employ thousands at the US Cruise Terminals that they sail from. Plus they buy supplies at these US ports. I hope there will be some way to help citizens and businesses at the same time. Both are important to our economy.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Guess I don't like to word "bailout" used when talking about airlines, cruise lines, etc. These industries are not responsible for what is happening to them. Not a result of bad decisions on their part. As far as the Cruise lines are concerned ---I don't know exact numbers---but I am sure they employ thousands at the US Cruise Terminals that they sail from. Plus they buy supplies at these US ports. I hope there will be some way to help citizens and businesses at the same time. Both are important to our economy.

Regarding the cruise lines - they do NOT PAY TAXES to the USA. The companies themselves - do not pay taxes for those ships that harbor in the USA - because the ships are registered under foreign flags. The money that -would- go to them, if approved, would be money collected from American taxpayers.

I love taking cruises. I'd love to take some more of them. But if they aren't allowed to sail from our shores right now, then they are NOT buying supplies from these US ports, and those thousands of employees will be laid off or terminated, due to lack of work. They are grossly underpaid, so their unemployment benefits will be minimal.

If you bail out the cruise ships, which can't go anywhere or pick up passengers or buy supplies, then those employees will get NOTHING from the bail out. They will still be out of work, the supply companies will still not get revenue for NOT supplying the ships that aren't going anywhere.

There is absolutely no reason to funnel a cent of taxpayer money into any of these cruise lines.

[retiredguy123]

I agree with the OP that, cruise lines that structure their business to avoid U.S. income taxes for the company and their employees, should not be bailed out by U.S. taxpayers. That would be ridiculous. If they go out of business, there will be other companies to fill the void.

[billethkid]

Bail out?Like so many things with big corporations and politics the "bail out" is a financial tactic with strings attached that are not necessarily aimed at helping the consumer.

There needs to be more said and provided for the small businesses that are not going to survive. So far lip service to making the wage earner whole through this crisis. Think of all the small business in the town squares and surrounding areas serving TV. Many are at zero revenue or less than half their normal revenue. Their rents, utilities, etc, will tank many of them.
They truly need a bail out. This is an area where TV commercial properties can "lend" a hand....with deferring rents etc.

Talking with some of the tenants of the squares.....nothing of any consequence from commercial properties.

The small businesses account for half the employment. This is where the bail out should be more aggressive.

Let's hope our favorite, shops, restaurants, salons, etc......find meaningful assistance to assure they survive.

My 2 cents on bail outs.

[rockandroller]

"My 2 cents on bail outs."

And add my 2 cents to that.

[Rollie]

Looking at all the replies on this post, it's no wonder nothing can get done in Congress and the Senate. The cruise line do pay taxes, port taxes, taxes on every ticket sold, and payroll taxes. They employ thousands of worker here, directly and indirectly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ships are foreign flagged for insurance reasons.

Rollie

[rustyp]

Looking at all the replies on this post, it's no wonder nothing can get done in Congress and the Senate. The cruise line do pay taxes, port taxes, taxes on every ticket sold, and payroll taxes. They employ thousands of worker here, directly and indirectly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ships are foreign flagged for insurance reasons.

Rollie

I'll bet it's more than just insurance but you have a good point about other types of taxes they may pay.

Here is where my plan kicks in. All large corporations of "X" size requesting subsidy money gets per a phased plan. First phase the size of the subsidy is no larger than the amount they paid in taxes 2018. That amount is to be published so we the taxpayers can see their contribution to our society. Then there can be several other phases of money distribution but each phase be based upon some rule from the previous phase. Example no more money if you laid off employees. Phase two perhaps was based upon sustaining payroll. And above all no stock buybacks allowed until the entire amount is paid back to us - the taxpayer.

[ColdNoMore]

I'll bet it's more than just insurance but you have a good point about other types of taxes they may pay.

Here is where my plan kicks in. All large corporations of "X" size requesting subsidy money gets per a phased plan. First phase the size of the subsidy is no larger than the amount they paid in taxes 2018. That amount is to be published so we the taxpayers can see their contribution to our society. Then there can be several other phases of money distribution but each phase be based upon some rule from the previous phase. Example no more money if you laid off employees. Phase two perhaps was based upon sustaining payroll. And above all no stock buybacks allowed until the entire amount is paid back to us - the taxpayer.

Not a bad start, but IMHO all additional socialist corporate bailouts/handouts/subsidies...need to go a LOT further. :mad:

1. If you used your tax breaks to buy back stock...you go to the back of the line.
2. If you used your tax breaks to increase executive pay, or to give out bonuses to upper management...you go to the back of the line.
3. If your tax liability % for the last few years has been well below the average paid by small businesses, or families...you go to the back of the line.
4. If you are a big business and haven't already cut your manager's, executives and CEO pay by at least 25%, but have laid off regular workers instead...you go to the back of the line.
5. If you work on Wall Street/the financial sector, took advantage of both the 2009 bailout's and the latest tax breaks, yet still received bonuses...you go to the back of the line.
6. If you didn't give pay raises to hourly employees, build new plants or pass on the majority of your savings from the last TRILLION dollar tax break to help employees...you go to the back of the line.
7. If your annual income is more than $75K single, $150K household (including withdrawals from investment income)...you go to the back of the line.
8. If your business was already in trouble due to poor, or ethically challenged management decisions (looking at YOU Boeing)...you go to the back of the line.
9. Etc., Etc., Etc....and feel free to add your own.

In other words, if you've already benefited from the previous TRILLION dollar Socialist Corporate/Wealthy Handout, but didn't invest in expanding your business or helping your employees...you go to the back of the line. :ho:

[rustyp]

How about the beneficiary of the bailout/loan whatever it ends up being need file an "A" level plan of what the money will be utilized for. If receiver deviates from the filed plan interest and penalties will apply.

[ColdNoMore]

How about the beneficiary of the bailout/loan whatever it ends up being need file an "A" level plan of what the money will be utilized for. If receiver deviates from the filed plan interest and penalties will apply.

Excellent idea. :thumbup:

[gatorbill1]

I was scheduled for a Hawaii and French Polynesia cruise April 3rd. I got an email from NCL that stated if you are over 70 and have a health condition you could not board ship. When I called them to cancel and get a refund because they were not allowing me to board ship, I was told they were giving only a cruise credit for future cruise, which I probably couldn't go on anyway if same conditions apply. Challenged credit card which is now pending. They canceled cruise consequentially and are now maybe offering a refund in 90 days or so.
We need to help them?????

[rjn5656]

Agree with you Rollie. Nicely said.

[Investment Painting Contractors]

Regarding the cruise lines - they do NOT PAY TAXES to the USA. The companies themselves - do not pay taxes for those ships that harbor in the USA - because the ships are registered under foreign flags. The money that -would- go to them, if approved, would be money collected from American taxpayers.

I love taking cruises. I'd love to take some more of them. But if they aren't allowed to sail from our shores right now, then they are NOT buying supplies from these US ports, and those thousands of employees will be laid off or terminated, due to lack of work. They are grossly underpaid, so their unemployment benefits will be minimal.

If you bail out the cruise ships, which can't go anywhere or pick up passengers or buy supplies, then those employees will get NOTHING from the bail out. They will still be out of work, the supply companies will still not get revenue for NOT supplying the ships that aren't going anywhere.

There is absolutely no reason to funnel a cent of taxpayer money into any of these cruise lines.

Union Dockworkers are paid an average of $147,000 a year with a benefits package of at least $30,000. I wish I had been that underpaid.

The ships bring in thousands of tourists everyday. The ships pay very high port fees. They buy local food. The tourist support tour companies , the attractions, local eateries, shops etc. Plus since many people have 401Ks which are tied to the stock market it helps the majority of the American Public. All of these people are paying taxes. The bail out is to insure that a company still exists after the virus. Thus everybody returns to work.


Give the workers a Fish they eat for a day. Give them a fishing pole (THE COMPANIES) They eat forever. Len

[rjn5656]

That is why big business might need a bailout. All of the fallout (employees, support businesses, etc.) that flourish if they are succesful.

Go to a small manufacturing town that the major business had left, and see what remains. I lived in one. It is not pretty.

[spk7951]

In 2018 the cruise industry had over 13 million people embarking via US & Puerto Rico ports. That is estimated to have brought over $24 billion to the economy, of that over $17 billion was spent by the cruise lines.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Union Dockworkers are paid an average of $147,000 a year with a benefits package of at least $30,000. I wish I had been that underpaid.

The ships bring in thousands of tourists everyday. The ships pay very high port fees. They buy local food. The tourist support tour companies , the attractions, local eateries, shops etc. Plus since many people have 401Ks which are tied to the stock market it helps the majority of the American Public. All of these people are paying taxes. The bail out is to insure that a company still exists after the virus. Thus everybody returns to work.


Give the workers a Fish they eat for a day. Give them a fishing pole (THE COMPANIES) They eat forever. Len

Many people do not equate with the majority. The majority of the American Public can't afford to take a cruise, let alone invest in Carnival, even at the current rate of $9.30/share.

The USA should not be bearing the brunt of the cost to maintain and bail out these cruise lines. Of all the country flags that fly on these ships, have any of those countries stepped up to contribute? Not even asking if they've contributed as much as the USA wants to contribute. Just if they've done so at all.

You register most of your ships under some other countries' flags to avoid paying American taxes, then you should expect those other countries to bail you out.

[Investment Painting Contractors]

Please carefully read SPK 7851s Post. You don't have to own cruise co stock to BENIFIT. All those taxes help us all out. Len

[Aces4]

Many people do not equate with the majority. The majority of the American Public can't afford to take a cruise, let alone invest in Carnival, even at the current rate of $9.30/share.

The USA should not be bearing the brunt of the cost to maintain and bail out these cruise lines. Of all the country flags that fly on these ships, have any of those countries stepped up to contribute? Not even asking if they've contributed as much as the USA wants to contribute. Just if they've done so at all.

You register most of your ships under some other countries' flags to avoid paying American taxes, then you should expect those other countries to bail you out.

I totally disagree.

Thanks for the perspective, Len. That is a large sum of money infused into our economy and affords many employment.

[Marvic 1]

Some interesting reading from the Verge website:
Don’t bail out the cruise industry
They’re not really US companies.
Carnival Corporation is incorporated in Panama.
Royal Caribbean is incorporated in Liberia.
Norwegian Cruise Line is incorporated in Bermuda.
And while they operate offices in Miami, Florida, they are all incorporated in countries with very different labor, tax, and other laws than those of the US. Their ships fly flags of these countries.
What’s more, a large number of cruise ship employees are from Europe, the Caribbean islands, and the Philippines.
These companies are not big job creators for US citizens in the way that other bailout targets like Boeing or airlines like Delta, United, and American are.

[Number 10 GI]

Any financial counselor worth their salt will tell an individual that they need to have an "emergency fund" to get through tough times. If this applies to an individual why not for corporations as well? The airline industry has been making record profits for quite a while now, why haven't they socked away some of those profits for a situation such as this? I'm tired of seeing my taxes go to bail out incompetent businessmen.
Another gripe I have is the pork that was ladled by the truck load into this so-called stimulus bill. Millions going to:

The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, which has been closed until May, would get $25 million so it can reopen its doors once the crisis is over.

The Smithsonian Institution would get $7.5 million to help with teleworking, deep cleaning and overtime for security, medical staff, and zoo keepers.

Museums, libraries and arts organizations across the country, which have been closing because of the pandemic, could get a boost from grants to state arts and humanities organizations.

States, which have been postponing primaries, would get additional funds to make voting safer such as expanding early voting and the ability to vote by mail.

This is just some of the pork in this bill that I pulled from a USA Today article, dig a little and you will find even more pork that has nothing to do with helping out the people who really need assistance. There is no form of life lower and more despicable than a politician.