Unearned Bond interest - legalized thievery!!

[Soon2B]

Because we are closing on a house in The Villages next month, I called VCDD to find how to pay off the bond at closing. I was told that even if I paid off the bond I will be charged for over a year's worth of interest - which for a $20,000 bond at 7.5% will be at least $1500!!

When I asked why I would be charged a year's worth of interest, I was told the people who bought the bonds were promised they would make money. So, it would be "unfair" to them if I didn't pay the extra $1500 or more. The Alice in Wonderland story is that the cutoff date is July, so if you buy your house in August you have missed the cutoff date??!!

I knew up front that the infrastructure costs (normally paid for by a developer and included in the price of a house) were palmed off to the buyer here in The Villages. What was NEVER hinted at was that we would be charged a year's worth of interest regardless of what we did.

Leagalized rape is still immoral. Why do we allow this kind of outrageous usury? Florida's legislators are concerned about you in proportion to how much you can donate to their pockets.

SB1196, the 'condo' bill, just passed allowing Speculators to buy 7 or more condos without incurring any liability of a builder nor without having to buy any insurance on the condos. So, if a fire, hurricane, or other problem occurs and your 'neighbor' happens to be a speculator, good luck in your condo.

In looking over TOTV, I see concerns about thieves breaking into your house -- what alarm system, what gun to have etc. According to statistics I've seen for Sumter County, 2 out of 100 houses might be stolen from by theives. When those thieves are caught they will go to jail or prison.

In new sections of The Villages, 100 out of 100 homes will be legally stolen from. Yet the thieves will be lauded and fawned over by our elected officials. It appears our 'fears' are misdirected.

[Russ_Boston]

SB1196, the 'condo' bill, just passed allowing Speculators to buy 7 or more condos without incurring any liability of a builder nor without having to buy any insurance on the condos. So, if a fire, hurricane, or other problem occurs and your 'neighbor' happens to be a speculator, good luck in your condo.

I

Not sure how this affects people in TV since there are basically no condos in TV. What was your point with that statement?

[golf2140]

Because we are closing on a house in The Villages next month, I called VCDD to find how to pay off the bond at closing. I was told that even if I paid off the bond I will be charged for over a year's worth of interest - which for a $20,000 bond at 7.5% will be at least $1500!!

When I asked why I would be charged a year's worth of interest, I was told the people who bought the bonds were promised they would make money. So, it would be "unfair" to them if I didn't pay the extra $1500 or more. The Alice in Wonderland story is that the cutoff date is July, so if you buy your house in August you have missed the cutoff date??!!

I knew up front that the infrastructure costs (normally paid for by a developer and included in the price of a house) were palmed off to the buyer here in The Villages. What was NEVER hinted at was that we would be charged a year's worth of interest regardless of what we did.

Leagalized rape is still immoral. Why do we allow this kind of outrageous usury? Florida's legislators are concerned about you in proportion to how much you can donate to their pockets.

SB1196, the 'condo' bill, just passed allowing Speculators to buy 7 or more condos without incurring any liability of a builder nor without having to buy any insurance on the condos. So, if a fire, hurricane, or other problem occurs and your 'neighbor' happens to be a speculator, good luck in your condo.

In looking over TOTV, I see concerns about thieves breaking into your house -- what alarm system, what gun to have etc. According to statistics I've seen for Sumter County, 2 out of 100 houses might be stolen from by theives. When those thieves are caught they will go to jail or prison.

In new sections of The Villages, 100 out of 100 homes will be legally stolen from. Yet the thieves will be lauded and fawned over by our elected officials. It appears our 'fears' are misdirected.

Maybe someone should rethink their position. Not here yet and complaining!!!

[Xavier]

Because we are closing on a house in The Villages next month, I called VCDD to find how to pay off the bond at closing. I was told that even if I paid off the bond I will be charged for over a year's worth of interest - which for a $20,000 bond at 7.5% will be at least $1500!!

When I asked why I would be charged a year's worth of interest, I was told the people who bought the bonds were promised they would make money. So, it would be "unfair" to them if I didn't pay the extra $1500 or more. The Alice in Wonderland story is that the cutoff date is July, so if you buy your house in August you have missed the cutoff date??!!

I knew up front that the infrastructure costs (normally paid for by a developer and included in the price of a house) were palmed off to the buyer here in The Villages. What was NEVER hinted at was that we would be charged a year's worth of interest regardless of what we did.

Leagalized rape is still immoral. Why do we allow this kind of outrageous usury? Florida's legislators are concerned about you in proportion to how much you can donate to their pockets.

SB1196, the 'condo' bill, just passed allowing Speculators to buy 7 or more condos without incurring any liability of a builder nor without having to buy any insurance on the condos. So, if a fire, hurricane, or other problem occurs and your 'neighbor' happens to be a speculator, good luck in your condo.

In looking over TOTV, I see concerns about thieves breaking into your house -- what alarm system, what gun to have etc. According to statistics I've seen for Sumter County, 2 out of 100 houses might be stolen from by theives. When those thieves are caught they will go to jail or prison.

In new sections of The Villages, 100 out of 100 homes will be legally stolen from. Yet the thieves will be lauded and fawned over by our elected officials. It appears our 'fears' are misdirected.

You've got time to back out. If I wasn't sure I'd be happy here - that's what I'd do.

X

[pooh]

Well, someone had to come up with the money and just about everyone wants their money to make interest.
Doesn't seem fair that they would want to collect something for the use of their funds? I think you might feel the same way if it was your money, I know I would. I'd be losing money if I got no interest. I could have put it somewhere else to earn $$$. Logically it seems unjust, but financially, it's business.

Congratulations on your new house. Come and enjoy.

[coach]

You will be charged the bond payment for the first year but if you are in a new construction home built it 2010 you only pay property tax on the value of the land in the first year. So it my opinion, it is a wash. You gain on lower property tax the first year and you pay a little more on the bond payment.

I don't want to sound rude but if this gets you so upset, you will be a very unhappy Villager.

Welcome to the " hood"

[Pats2010]

Congratulations and thanks for the "heads up." I'm sure that after you calm down you will love it there.

[chacam]

Sorry you feel that way. You have two options:
1) Quit whining !
2) Don't close until after Jan 1 !

[Soon2B]

Maybe someone should rethink their position. Not here yet and complaining!!!

If I had been aware that a $20,000 bond actually meant $22,000, I might not have not have changed my mind. There is no rethinking after a contract is signed unless you want to pay penalties.

I'm glad you have enough money that you don't complain when you are charged 10% more than you were told the item would be.

[Soon2B]

You've got time to back out. If I wasn't sure I'd be happy here - that's what I'd do.

X

Xavier, are you telling me there are more things like this that I don't know about?

[jannd228]

Xavier, are you telling me there are more things like this that I don't know about?

I am a wannabe, but I found this site accidentally, not sure how, the people here are all very nice and very informative

I started my own list of ideas and information I have found here and found it invaluable even in just online searches for a home, I think they will give you great answers, they have given them to me and I am just a lurker as they say

[pooh]

If I had been aware that a $20,000 bond actually meant $22,000, I might not have not have changed my mind. There is no rethinking after a contract is signed unless you want to pay penalties.

I'm glad you have enough money that you don't complain when you are charged 10% more than you were told the item would be.

I have not intention of paying off my bond. I would rather have that money available for my use. If I sell my house, I can't sell my house for anymore than comparable properties just because the bond is paid off. Guess bonds are just part of the package in Sumter and Marion counties. Honestly, I wonder just what percentage of owners pay off their bond. Might be interesting to know.

[Soon2B]

Well, someone had to come up with the money and just about everyone wants their money to make interest.
Doesn't seem fair that they would want to collect something for the use of their funds? I think you might feel the same way if it was your money, I know I would. I'd be losing money if I got no interest. I could have put it somewhere else to earn $$$. Logically it seems unjust, but financially, it's business.

Congratulations on your new house. Come and enjoy.

Thanks about the new house. We like it and we like TV that's why we decided to buy here.

If it had been stated up front that there not only was a $20,000 bond but there was also a mandatory years worth of interest to be paid, that would have been one thing. Like the existence of the bond it would have been something known up front. To discover it two weeks before closing is another thing.

[Soon2B]

Sorry you feel that way. You have two options:
1) Quit whining !
2) Don't close until after Jan 1 !

1. If you think being upset about paying an additional $2000 is whining, I'm glad you're so cheerful.

2. I was told when the house would close. Closing at any other time was not an option.

[pooh]

Thanks about the new house. We like it and we like TV that's why we decided to buy here.

If it had been stated up front that there not only was a $20,000 bond but there was also a mandatory years worth of interest to be paid, that would have been one thing. Like the existence of the bond it would have been something known up front. To discover it two weeks before closing is another thing.

Guess I never really thought about it because I have no intention of paying off the bond. Hubby might have known about the interest, he talked with the sales agent about bonds, but I was just more interested in trying to decide what model home I wanted. After living in southern CA, houses here seemed a bargin...though the taxes were considerably more than I used to pay (We had Prop 13 which kept our property taxes fairly low.) New owner of our house wasn't exempt and the taxes had gone up almost $4000 for them.

Again, congratulations on your new home...and remember, so many things are different financially here in Florida, but the people and the beauty of The Villages are priceless.

[BogeyBoy]

I don't think TV is keeping the bond and how it works a secret. We were fully aware of it and accepted it as part of the buying process. It was a part of the contract you signed and just like any legal document it is your responsibility to check it out until you are comfortable with the terms. We always get copies of contracts before the closing date and completely review them.

You can get very specific information about paying off the bond from TV, they will even give you a complete breakdown of the interest charged over the term of the bond payments.

BTW, I'm surprised the bond interest rate is at 7.5%. We've purchased 3 homes here and the highest (and most recent) was just over 6%.

Think of it this way, if the bond was built into the price of the house you would be paying taxes on that increased price. (Both at the time of purchase and forever in property taxes.)

[784caroline]

Soon2b

Are you surprized you are not getting much sympathy from members of this board? Well I can understand your position but you may really want to think about paying off the bond so quickly....especially in light of you having a MAJOR problem with the developer and you have not even closed on the property. WHy I say this is that in this economy, it is unlikely that you will recover the $20K bond payment just in case you need or want to sell in a couple of months/years. I say "take your time"... the developer may be doing you a favor if you find things are just not to your liking here in TV. I would be surprised, but there are a number of surprises and people do sell within 3-5 years of buying OR sooner. They sell to move back home or to another location within the Villlages and if thats your case again you would never recoup the $20K.

My advice is relax...I dont think anyone is trying to take your money or "legally rape" you. Your certainly old enough to "adjust' to the circumstances ...many of us faced issues unknown to us when we bought in TV and moved here...but after a couple days, weeks or how ever long it take you to adjust.......you just may enjoy it regardless.

[bkcunningham1]

Is that interest rate set for the bond? Surely that wasn't your loan interest rate. Just wanted to understand. We didn't have a bond. But if what you are saying is correct, I'd be upset too.

With that being said, your warning should be appreciated by new home buyers looking at a bond. Welcome to TV and I hope your neighbors and your time here will outway the bond interest. Not to make light, I do get you being upset. Anyway, welcome, welcome, welcome.

[pooh]

Soon2b

Are you surprized you are not getting much sympathy from members of this board? Well I can understand your position but you may really want to think about paying off the bond so quickly....especially in light of you having a MAJOR problem with the developer and you have not even closed on the property. WHy I say this is that in this economy, it is unlikely that you will recover the $20K bond payment just in case you need or want to sell in a couple of years. I say "take your time" the developer may be doing you a favor if you find things are just not to your liking here in TV. I would be surprised, but there are a number of surprises and people do sell within 3-5 years of buying OR sooner. They sell to move back home or to another location within the Villlages and if thats your case again you would never recoup the $20K.

My advice is relax...I dont think anyone is trying to take your money or "legally rape" you. Your certainly old enough to "adjust' to the circumstances ...many of us faced issues unknown to us when we bought in TV and moved here...but after a couple days, weeks or how ever long it take you to adjust.......you just may enjoy it regardless.

You bring up a valid concern. Some Villagers do move to a different house, larger, smaller, closer to town, away from the town center, etc. and they could move to another house, villa, that still has a bond. Does one pay off yet another bond? That's lots of $$$ out of pocket. Thanks for the reminder.

[Soon2B]

I don't think TV is keeping the bond and how it works a secret. We were fully aware of it and accepted it as part of the buying process. It was a part of the contract you signed and just like any legal document it is your responsibility to check it out until you are comfortable with the terms. We always get copies of contracts before the closing date and completely review them.

You can get very specific information about paying off the bond from TV, they will even give you a complete breakdown of the interest charged over the term of the bond payments.

BTW, I'm surprised the bond interest rate is at 7.5%. We've purchased 3 homes here and the highest (and most recent) was just over 6%.

Think of it this way, if the bond was built into the price of the house you would be paying taxes on that increased price. (Both at the time of purchase and forever in property taxes.)

BogeyBoy, perhaps in your contract the specific amount for VCDD was spelled out. In mine there is simply the statement that the VCDD may impose and levy taxes or assessments or both. I asked what the bond was and was shown a number a few cents shy of $20,000. That number was not in any contract we signed.

The contract further states that the seller will pay all assessments and taxes prior to closing.

It is not the existence of a bond that is the issue. It is having to pay a years worth of interest even if paid off at the day of closing.

If the bond had been rolled into the price of the house, the interest rate on that $20000 would have been 4.75%.

[BogeyBoy]

BogeyBoy, perhaps in your contract the specific amount for VCDD was spelled out. In mine there is simply the statement that the VCDD may impose and levy taxes or assessments or both. I asked what the bond was and was shown a number a few cents shy of $20,000. That number was not in any contract we signed.

The contract further states that the seller will pay all assessments and taxes prior to closing.

It is not the existence of a bond that is the issue. It is having to pay a years worth of interest even if paid off at the day of closing.

If the bond had been rolled into the price of the house, the interest rate on that $20000 would have been 4.75%.

I wasn't thinking of interest, I was thinking of property taxes, increased insurance costs, etc. on a home with an additional $20,000 value.

[gloriav]

Pooh or any other person, Would like your opinion on "what would you consider the differences to be between the bond an individual new lot/home pays and the bonds floated by the CDD to the general investment community".

Kindly note I'm not a current resident. My husband and I stayed for 5 days in June 2010 and were impressed with the community. I've been spending time studying the community from the financial aspects and I'm somewhat concerned of what could happen to an individual owner if the IRS rules not in favor of the CDD. Also to me it sounds like the CDD was established as a way to float tax exempt bonds from 1998 to 2005. Although I'm not saying the CDD is not appropriate, I'm just wondering if the community at large will change negatively in the future. For example, certain ammendities may no longer be offered or the HOA will increase more than the CPI.
Any feedback/comments are welcome.

[JimJoe]

Here are my 2 cents. Soon2b has a beef with not being told up front that he would have to pay a years worth of interest on the bond. Now he is stuck with paying about $1500 he was not aware of. I think that is a valid complaint. The villagers are pointing out that the bright side, which is he can wait that year to pay the bond, maybe pass it on to the next buyer if he moves, invest or collect some interest on that 20k he was going to pay on the bond, and enjoy the fact that if there was no bond he would be paying property taxes, increased insurance costs etc on a home valued at 20k more...(btw... I dont think property taxes are based on the price you paid so this argument is somewhat tenuous).
Lesson learned: Get as much information as you can before you make your offer, have it in writing, and then ENJOY TV!

[Bogie Shooter]

Pooh or any other person, Would like your opinion on "what would you consider the differences to be between the bond an individual new lot/home pays and the bonds floated by the CDD to the general investment community".

Kindly note I'm not a current resident. My husband and I stayed for 5 days in June 2010 and were impressed with the community. I've been spending time studying the community from the financial aspects and I'm somewhat concerned of what could happen to an individual owner if the IRS rules not in favor of the CDD. Also to me it sounds like the CDD was established as a way to float tax exempt bonds from 1998 to 2005. Although I'm not saying the CDD is not appropriate, I'm just wondering if the community at large will change negatively in the future. For example, certain ammendities may no longer be offered or the HOA will increase more than the CPI.
Any feedback/comments are welcome.
Suggest you do a search on IRS, bonds , etc. You will get enough information to keep you busy for the rest of the week. And BTW there is no answer to the IRS ruling.

[TEShaw]

I would like for you to consider a few things before you make these kind of emotional accusations in the future.

Your claim of "legalized thievery" is unwarranted. Nobody pointed a gun at your head and made you buy a home. Further, you had every opportunity to call the VCDD and ask about how the bond works before you made the commitment to purchase. In addition to that, there is a weekly CDD orientation given on this topic that is open for everyone to attend.

That said, I understand that you are frustrated by what you thought was a surprise cost. It was only a surprise because you assumed you understood this complicated topic, but you did not.

Here is what you said:
"I knew up front that the infrastructure costs (normally paid for by a developer and included in the price of a house) were palmed off to the buyer"

This is an incorrect statement. There is a very good reason the costs are separated (not palmed off) and two choices are presented to the buyer (payoff or annual payments). The 'average' homeowner in the Villages will move at least 3 times while they live here. Separating it allows the homeowner to make those small payments on the infrastructure cost and walk away from the balance when they sell in a few years and go to their next home. People do not buy homes in the Villages to live in them for 30 or 40 years. Think about it. It�s a retirement community.

The infrastructure cost being separate is a huge benefit to people in their retirement years.

Second, the county will assess your home based on the TOTAL purchase price. Your taxes will be a percentage of that TOTAL price. Taking out the infrastructure cost will lower that taxation amount. By adding it to the price of the home, other developers are causing you to be DOUBLE taxed. You are paying taxes on your home and you are being taxed on the cost of the infrastructure (i.e. you are being taxed on a tax).

In the future, I would invite you to think before you make these kind of inflammatory accusations. Buying a home is an emotional decision. I understand that... but do you really think that a company like the Villages with it's level of success and extremely high level of customer satisfaction would behave the way you have described? Calm down and look at it again.

You are about to move to the best damn retirement community in the country right now. I hope you will be able to truly enjoy it once you better understand this issue.

Good Luck and God Bless.

[Xavier]

Xavier, are you telling me there are more things like this that I don't know about?

Nope - just saying that if you have misgivings, you have the option to cut your loses and bail out. It may even be worth the penalties if you can't get over it. There nothing worse than living or working someplace that isn't as you hoped it would be.

Xavier

[zcaveman]

Bonds can only be paid off in July. The only thing you can do is ask the seller to pay off the bond before the sale and let them absorb the interest charge.

[K9-Lovers]

I don't blame you for being upset because you were surprised. But, it is what it is. Ask yourself this question: Would you still buy a home in TV if the price was increased by that same amount -- and you knew about it in advance? If the answer is yes, then put this behind you so you can find peace. Don't think about it anymore. Then you can begin to enjoy your home in what is arguably the best retirement community in the world.

[Xavier]

Another solution: Don't pay the bond until next year on the "pay off" date. Invest your $20,000 well and it won't be $1,500 cost because of your wise investing.

I forgot to congratulate you on one of the smartest moves you've ever made.

Xavier

[Pats2010]

I would like for you to consider a few things before you make these kind of emotional accusations in the future.

Your claim of "legalized thievery" is unwarranted. Nobody pointed a gun at your head and made you buy a home. Further, you had every opportunity to call the VCDD and ask about how the bond works before you made the commitment to purchase. In addition to that, there is a weekly CDD orientation given on this topic that is open for everyone to attend.

That said, I understand that you are frustrated by what you thought was a surprise cost. It was only a surprise because you assumed you understood this complicated topic, but you did not.

Here is what you said:
"I knew up front that the infrastructure costs (normally paid for by a developer and included in the price of a house) were palmed off to the buyer"

This is an incorrect statement. There is a very good reason the costs are separated (not palmed off) and two choices are presented to the buyer (payoff or annual payments). The 'average' homeowner in the Villages will move at least 3 times while they live here. Separating it allows the homeowner to make those small payments on the infrastructure cost and walk away from the balance when they sell in a few years and go to their next home. People do not buy homes in the Villages to live in them for 30 or 40 years. Think about it. It�s a retirement community.

The infrastructure cost being separate is a huge benefit to people in their retirement years.

Second, the county will assess your home based on the TOTAL purchase price. Your taxes will be a percentage of that TOTAL price. Taking out the infrastructure cost will lower that taxation amount. By adding it to the price of the home, other developers are causing you to be DOUBLE taxed. You are paying taxes on your home and you are being taxed on the cost of the infrastructure (i.e. you are being taxed on a tax).

In the future, I would invite you to think before you make these kind of inflammatory accusations. Buying a home is an emotional decision. I understand that... but do you really think that a company like the Villages with it's level of success and extremely high level of customer satisfaction would behave the way you have described? Calm down and look at it again.

You are about to move to the best damn retirement community in the country right now. I hope you will be able to truly enjoy it once you better understand this issue.

Good Luck and God Bless.

Wow....are you Gary Morse?

[bkcunningham1]

Wow....are you Gary Morse?

I was thinking along those lines too.

[graciegirl]

Congratulations and Best Wishes.

The $1500 unpleasant surprise, I am sorry about for you, but I wouldn't blame the Morses. They are in business to make money. I wouldn't pay off the bond either. We bought a new house and two years later we are thinking to sell it and buy another.

Some of the posts on here make me wonder if someone is an outside realtor and even one made me think of someone close to the Morses. We sure are a stubborn, opiniated bunch, but that is to be expected I guess after several decades of living.

I hope that this won't completely spoil your dream of living here in this beautiful place.

Maybe the Morses are greedy and maybe they are as altruistic as St. Teresa, I can't guess their motives. I appreciate their brilliant and organized ideas and don't begrudge them the money they make.

If I were as wealthy as they are, I might choose to have someone else manage the whole thing, but they continue to work here and are part of the everyday running of things.

If you are reading this Morse family. Thank you from the G's.

[Bogie Shooter]

Wow....are you Gary Morse?
Is this a favorable or unfavorable comment?

[The Shadow]

2B,
You need to do your homework on the other bonds, the bonds that the real estate rep Village or MLS claims to know nothing about. The one called the interest free bonds or the IRS bonds.

To give you an idea what this is about.

http://andrewblechman.blogspot.com/2009/06/big-ouch-explained-by-lauren-ritchie.html

[Russ_Boston]

If I were Gary Morse reading it then I would say unfavorable:)

[Pats2010]

Is this a favorable or unfavorable comment?

Neither...I was having fun with a guy with only his second post.

[Vinny]

No one is twisting your arm to force you to move here. If you want to live The Village lifestyle you have to accept it the way it is; warts and all. I do not like the way they sell cars without a set price but unless I want a Saturn instead of a Honda I have to accept things as they are. Your statement is rather harsh and unlike rape, purchasing a home in TV is voluntary so your metaphor was inappropriate.

[Pats2010]

If I were Gary Morse reading it then I would say unfavorable:)

Your not Gary Morse and it was not unfavorable.

I personally think Mr. Morse is doing a great job here.

[Pats2010]

Congratulations and Best Wishes.

The $1500 unpleasant surprise, I am sorry about for you, but I wouldn't blame the Morses. They are in business to make money. I wouldn't pay off the bond either. We bought a new house and two years later we are thinking to sell it and buy another.

Some of the posts on here make me wonder if someone is an outside realtor and even one made me think of someone close to the Morses. We sure are a stubborn, opiniated bunch, but that is to be expected I guess after several decades of living.

I hope that this won't completely spoil your dream of living here in this beautiful place.

Maybe the Morses are greedy and maybe they are as altruistic as St. Teresa, I can't guess their motives. I appreciate their brilliant and organized ideas and don't begrudge them the money they make.

If I were as wealthy as they are, I might choose to have someone else manage the whole thing, but they continue to work here and are part of the everyday running of things.

If you are reading this Morse family. Thank you from the G's.

Me too.

[Soon2B]

No one is twisting your arm to force you to move here. If you want to live The Village lifestyle you have to accept it the way it is; warts and all. I do not like the way they sell cars without a set price but unless I want a Saturn instead of a Honda I have to accept things as they are. Your statement is rather harsh and unlike rape, purchasing a home in TV is voluntary so your metaphor was inappropriate.

Vinny, I like your car dealer analogy. Pick out your favorite car with all the extras you want and the dealer will tell you what his price is. Let's say he won't haggle, but you agree to the set price. He wants 20% up front. The contract says you lose your 20% and there are other penalties if you change your mind later.

He told you before you signed that he has a dealer's prep cost of $1000. When you first bought cars long ago preparing the car was included in the price, but now is added on. You were aware of it before you signed. Yes, it's a way he makes more money but, so what, that's the way it is now. He tells you it will take four weeks to get the car and prep it.

Finally, you go to pick up your new car, pay him the money including his dealer's prep charge. Then he says to you "not so fast. That $1000 was my dealer's prep charge four weeks ago when you signed the contract. Since then I've had to pay my employees and rent on the building and other things, so now you owe me $500 more."

True, nobody twisted your arm to buy that car. Shouldn't you just accept that's the way things are?

P.S. I'm done with this thread and will be following Xavier's advice to take the lemons I've been given and let them ferment for a year. With a little vodka, I'll have something with which to make a nice toast to TV.

[graciegirl]

Vinny, I like your car dealer analogy. Pick out your favorite car with all the extras you want and the dealer will tell you what his price is. Let's say he won't haggle, but you agree to the set price. He wants 20% up front. The contract says you lose your 20% and there are other penalties if you change your mind later.

He told you before you signed that he has a dealer's prep cost of $1000. When you first bought cars long ago preparing the car was included in the price, but now is added on. You were aware of it before you signed. Yes, it's a way he makes more money but, so what, that's the way it is now. He tells you it will take four weeks to get the car and prep it.

Finally, you go to pick up your new car, pay him the money including his dealer's prep charge. Then he says to you "not so fast. That $1000 was my dealer's prep charge four weeks ago when you signed the contract. Since then I've had to pay my employees and rent on the building and other things, so now you owe me $500 more."

True, nobody twisted your arm to buy that car. Shouldn't you just accept that's the way things are?

P.S. I'm done with this thread and will be following Xavier's advice to take the lemons I've been given and let them ferment for a year. With a little vodka, I'll have something with which to make a nice toast to TV.

It makes me so sad that this unexpected fee has ruined your beginning here. I hope that time will heal this experience and that you will find that almost any event is worth the transition to living here.

What a good place this is to share both good and bad events. Welcome from my heart.

[aljetmet]

I have not intention of paying off my bond. I would rather have that money available for my use. If I sell my house, I can't sell my house for anymore than comparable properties just because the bond is paid off. Guess bonds are just part of the package in Sumter and Marion counties. Honestly, I wonder just what percentage of owners pay off their bond. Might be interesting to know.


If you pay off your bond, and you do not market your home indicating to the potential buyer that they would save money compared to a house that does have a bond you, you should make sure your real estate agent makes that very clear in the listing. Also, I think it's foolish to pay 7% interest on a loan you cannot take off your taxes that is so much higher than current rates.

In an earlier comment you mentioned people investing in the bonds deserve to make their 7%. These bonds are marketable and as abuyer of the bond you should no the risk. If I'm not mistaken, this is a tax free rate.
If you buy now a long term rate it is much lower than 7 %. The neighborhood you are paying for is supposed to be new. Thus the bonds should be a recent issue. I guess, I must be missing something on this.

I have 31 months to figure this out I guess....

[coach]

I should stay out of the discussion but I just can't. Are you sure the rate is 7%? I find that hard to believe. I would check with the district office to get the facts on the rate.

[JohnN]

as coach said above, you're paying a very low property tax rate for the remainder of this year, basically as undeveloped property. you'll save about $2,000 this year. Are you also unhappy that you're not paying your fair share of property taxes?

I considered it a wash.

[pooh]

If you pay off your bond, and you do not market your home indicating to the potential buyer that they would save money compared to a house that does have a bond you, you should make sure your real estate agent makes that very clear in the listing. Also, I think it's foolish to pay 7% interest on a loan you cannot take off your taxes that is so much higher than current rates.

In an earlier comment you mentioned people investing in the bonds deserve to make their 7%. These bonds are marketable and as abuyer of the bond you should no the risk. If I'm not mistaken, this is a tax free rate.
If you buy now a long term rate it is much lower than 7 %. The neighborhood you are paying for is supposed to be new. Thus the bonds should be a recent issue. I guess, I must be missing something on this.

I have 31 months to figure this out I guess....

31 months till you retire or you move here? Time will pass quickly...at least I hope it does for you. Being able to plan your time as you wish is really all it's cracked up to be... ;)

When homes here are sold and there is no bond remaining, it is stated in the description, at least I've seen it written. Having the bond paid off doesn't mean I can sell my house for more, it just means that the new buyers won't have an additional payment each year.

I don't know for certain that the bond is 7%. Maybe, maybe not. It wasn't that high in past years.
I'm not sure if you've read about people doing a bit of moving in this community. Seems many do. Some move to new homes, homes that now have a bond and that has to be paid off? When someone buys a home here, it isn't necessarily the home they'll stay in. Circumstances and conditions can change and a larger or smaller dwelling is needed. If I move a few times, why am I paying off bonds for others. People have differing views on this and must do what they feel is correct for them.

I can't speak knowledgeably enough about the ins and outs of the tax free bonds and the developer so I won't. I will watch with interest what transpires between the IRS and this community's developer.

My point was, why take $10,000 to $50,000 out of savings or an IRA, lose interest or have to pay taxes, for a home when you might just buy another...and then have to do the same thing all over again. This is just my personal feeling about the matter. Some feel very differently about their bond....they'd rather not have that "debt" out there and are more comfortable paying it off. I feel much better just making a payment once a year and having the funds available for use if needed or wanted. As they say, "Your mileage may vary.".... ;)

[Peggy D]

I'm glad you have enough money that you don't complain when you are charged 10% more than you were told the item would be.

Kinda like Florida sales tax for me. We are from Delaware--no sales tax.

When something costs $2.99, you pay $2.99!!

The bond issue has always been hard to understand for alot of Villagers. Hope you can come to terms with it and have fun here.

[aljetmet]

31 months till you retire or you move here? Time will pass quickly...at least I hope it does for you. Being able to plan your time as you wish is really all it's cracked up to be... ;)

When homes here are sold and there is no bond remaining, it is stated in the description, at least I've seen it written. Having the bond paid off doesn't mean I can sell my house for more, it just means that the new buyers won't have an additional payment each year.

I don't know for certain that the bond is 7%. Maybe, maybe not. It wasn't that high in past years.
I'm not sure if you've read about people doing a bit of moving in this community. Seems many do. Some move to new homes, homes that now have a bond and that has to be paid off? When someone buys a home here, it isn't necessarily the home they'll stay in. Circumstances and conditions can change and a larger or smaller dwelling is needed. If I move a few times, why am I paying off bonds for others. People have differing views on this and must do what they feel is correct for them.

I can't speak knowledgeably enough about the ins and outs of the tax free bonds and the developer so I won't. I will watch with interest what transpires between the IRS and this community's developer.

My point was, why take $10,000 to $50,000 out of savings or an IRA, lose interest or have to pay taxes, for a home when you might just buy another...and then have to do the same thing all over again. This is just my personal feeling about the matter. Some feel very differently about their bond....they'd rather not have that "debt" out there and are more comfortable paying it off. I feel much better just making a payment once a year and having the funds available for use if needed or wanted. As they say, "Your mileage may vary.".... ;)

I hope it's 31 months for both. My wife isn't working so we hope to buy and settle in befoe. Timing on selling our house etc. I really don't expect to buy more than once. Paying off the bond is a financial thing and you have to be comfortable with your own decisions. There are pros and cons for both. You know which way I'm leaning though...:icon_wink:

[skip0358]

I got a closing statement estimate prior to my closing showing my bond payment amount due at closing. I was also informed I could pay the balance the following year in July.I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Probably someone didn't explain it to you or you were so happy with your decission to move into TV you over looked it. As another poster said wait a year and pay it next year. By then you'll know alot more about TV.It's water under the bridge at this point. Don't let it spoil the ride of a life time. Consider it a small bump in the road. Welcome to TV.:BigApplause:

[Kelsie52]

You might want to take a middle road and if you can take enough out in the mortgage to pay the bond and make the yearly payments at a lower rate then the 7% ,and it will also be deductable. It does not solve the initial back interest owed question but it makes more sense to me if you are staying.

I will try to do that ---by taking some mortgage cash and holding off for a year to see if we are staying put --Then using it to pay off the bond or buy a couple of golf carts with deductable dollars .

You can get many opinions, remember everyone has one ---what ever works for you--but I think the move to TV is the main thing ..
The Bond issue really bothered me when I first learned of it but the more I thought about it the less it mattered in the overall picture of where we want to live ... I think of it now as a part of the price of the home

Good luck

[Number 6]

I am of the pay it off school of thought. While you might not get dollar for dollar back should you move, you will get much of it back. Having no Bond makes the house more marketable; able to command a higher selling price. At 6 or 7%, non tax deductible, it is pretty expensive money. Prime is currently 3.25%!

[Russ_Boston]

I'd really like to know, someday, who The Shadow is. I really want to know the story behind the story. Why is he/she so fixated on the IRS bond issue that even the IRS isn't really pushing? Hmmmm,

[pooh]

I hope it's 31 months for both. My wife isn't working so we hope to buy and settle in befoe. Timing on selling our house etc. I really don't expect to buy more than once. Paying off the bond is a financial thing and you have to be comfortable with your own decisions. There are pros and cons for both. You know which way I'm leaning though...:icon_wink:

I hope you have the opportunity to get here sooner, also. You'll really love the place.

Here's hoping all works out well for you and your wife.

[pooh]

I'd really like to know, someday, who The Shadow is. I really want to know the story behind the story. Why is he/she so fixated on the IRS bond issue that even the IRS isn't really pushing? Hmmmm,

Makes one wonder, doesn't it Russ. Maybe one day we'll know just what "The Shadow Knows."..... ;)

[Bogie Shooter]

Makes one wonder, doesn't it Russ. Maybe one day we'll know just what "The Shadow Knows."..... ;)
Probably viewing TV from afar. Envy takes on different forms.

[The Shadow]

I'd really like to know, someday, who The Shadow is. I really want to know the story behind the story. Why is he/she so fixated on the IRS bond issue that even the IRS isn't really pushing? Hmmmm,

Long story short, a couple things I am really afraid of, fire and the IRS. I quit playing with matches when I was a kid after I darn near burned the house down. I have scary memories of people being destroyed by the IRS. I have made it a practice to do my own income tax after my first year of filing was screwed up by a paid tax person three times and it was me that found the mistakes. I learned the IRS rules as they pertained to me and followed them to the letter and used them to my advantage.

Why am I fixated on it? I did not cause the problem and I can not fix the problem and in my estimation the IRS could bring dire consequence to the home owners. I think the IRS will demand money, the CDD will not have money so the IRS will take the assets. What assets? Think about it.

�the IRS isn't really pushing� my words would be the IRS does not telegraphy its moves and they have just been silent for 6 months.

I am not trying to sell anyone on what I think but I think that everyone that has a finical interest in the outcome should be aware of the problem and the information available to make an informed decision.

�who The Shadow is� We will go into that another day.

That�s my story Mr. Russ

[Pturner]

Dear Soon2be,

My heart goes out to you. Your username speaks to your excitement about moving to TV. Buyer's remorse is stressful, as is a sense that your bubble has been burst. (I mean this in more ways than one as many of us TV'ers think of TV as a bubble.)

I hope that you would not have changed your mind about living in TV had you known that homeowners have only a once-a-year option, in July, to payoff the bond. It would make me sad if you just feel stuck and don't still want to be here.

When we asked about paying off the bond, both our Villages and MLS agents told us that the bond could be paid off only in July each year.
We asked if we could pay down the bond. Both agents told us that the only two choices are to pay the amount that is due each year, or to pay the bond in full in July. Homeowners receive a reminder each year in advance of the July payoff period.

Sometimes it is difficult to know the right questions to ask. (I could understand if you just assumed you could pay off the bond at closing.) However, if you were told you could pay off the bond without penalty at closing, then you were indeed wronged.

I think what you have decided to do-- wait until next July to pay off the bond-- is the most sensible course under the circumstances. I don't know what else you could do at this point, other than perhaps report your agent, if he/she gave you misinformation, to either Villages mgm. or to the agent's Broker's office and the Florida Board of Realtors.

I hope you can put this behind you and enjoy the people, amenities and beauty that make TV a wonderful place to live.

I'm sending a virtual hug.

[kentucky blue]

I absolutely love the residents of TV, you live in this bubble, free from the outside world. Ben Bernanke says the economy is "unusally uncertain" and is weakening. But inside TV everything is just swell, i hope you are right and everybody else is just wrong.We should all have your postive outlook, living in the world of Disney and Mary Poppins. All i can say is...................... supercalifragilisticeexpialidocious, and hope reality never reaches TV.:confused:

[Pats2010]

I absolutely love the residents of TV, you live in this bubble, free from the outside world. Ben Bernanke says the economy is "unusally uncertain" and is weakening. But inside TV everything is just swell, i hope you are right and everybody else is just wrong.We should all have your postive outlook, living in the world of Disney and Mary Poppins. All i can say is...................... supercalifragilisticeexpialidocious, and hope reality never reaches TV.:confused:
And you wonder why the intellectually perceptive individuals who are seriously researching TV as their future home have to take a step back and say ...........are you f*&^ing kidding me !!!!!


Your consistent...are you sure you want to move to the Villages? Just curious.

[kentucky blue]

I would love to live in TV, but unlike many, who buy on there first visit, i want to know EVERYTHING about the entire community before i invest.I KNOW the people of TV are terrific,but a community without representation is eventually in serious trouble, just look at history.The residents of TV need not to get sooooooooo defensive EVERYTIME somebody questions their "kool aid, disney, stepford" existence. TV needs residents who will question the policy of the leadership, and i see very little of that presently.THE SHADOW KNOWS :duck:

[jebartle]

One more option....Buy in Lake County...NO bond

[bkcunningham1]

Do you have any idea how many governmental boards and committees hold meetings in TV that fall under state open meeting laws where public input is allowed? I'm not defending anything just putting out facts.

In many areas around the US, numerous decision making town and county boards and committees are appointed by elected council members and supervisors who represent certain areas of the county. Town managers, police chiefs, fire chiefs, recreation dept. supervisors, judges, county administrators, PSA administrators, landfill administrators, et al, are generally not elected positions. The same goes for the state and federal positions.

If someone is elected to a position in government you didn't vote to put into office, do you throw up your hands in dispair and walk away, work the whole term to get them ousted or let your voice be heard either for or against decisions and policy?

[Russ_Boston]

Remember people - we have a political forum for a reason. Let's keep this thread to bond talk.

[Pats2010]

Remember people - we have a political forum for a reason. Let's keep this thread to bond talk.
The original poster already talked politics in his post????

Because we are closing on a house in The Villages next month, I called VCDD to find how to pay off the bond at closing. I was told that even if I paid off the bond I will be charged for over a year's worth of interest - which for a $20,000 bond at 7.5% will be at least $1500!!

When I asked why I would be charged a year's worth of interest, I was told the people who bought the bonds were promised they would make money. So, it would be "unfair" to them if I didn't pay the extra $1500 or more. The Alice in Wonderland story is that the cutoff date is July, so if you buy your house in August you have missed the cutoff date??!!

I knew up front that the infrastructure costs (normally paid for by a developer and included in the price of a house) were palmed off to the buyer here in The Villages. What was NEVER hinted at was that we would be charged a year's worth of interest regardless of what we did.

Leagalized rape is still immoral. Why do we allow this kind of outrageous usury? Florida's legislators are concerned about you in proportion to how much you can donate to their pockets.

SB1196, the 'condo' bill, just passed allowing Speculators to buy 7 or more condos without incurring any liability of a builder nor without having to buy any insurance on the condos. So, if a fire, hurricane, or other problem occurs and your 'neighbor' happens to be a speculator, good luck in your condo.

In looking over TOTV, I see concerns about thieves breaking into your house -- what alarm system, what gun to have etc. According to statistics I've seen for Sumter County, 2 out of 100 houses might be stolen from by theives. When those thieves are caught they will go to jail or prison.

In new sections of The Villages, 100 out of 100 homes will be legally stolen from. Yet the thieves will be lauded and fawned over by our elected officials. It appears our 'fears' are misdirected.
Reply With Quote

[The Shadow]

I absolutely love the residents of TV, you live in this bubble, free from the outside world. Ben Bernanke says the economy is "unusally uncertain" and is weakening. But inside TV everything is just swell, i hope you are right and everybody else is just wrong.We should all have your postive outlook, living in the world of Disney and Mary Poppins. All i can say is...................... supercalifragilisticeexpialidocious, and hope reality never reaches TV.:confused:
Kentucky blue,

One of my favorite stories about TV people, a story that demonstrates what kind of people that live in TV is about. A tornado that went thru the area of Mallory Hills County Club, homes were destroyed, SUVs blown about, Club house closed for repairs for the better part of a year, the Red Cross came to the rescue to provide food and shelter to the homeless people. What happened next was one of the most fantastic things I have ever witnessed humans do, the Red Cross was not needed, other than handing out a few sandwiches TV people took care and provide for their neighbors. Cleanup started when the rain stopped.

I agree TV is a bubble all right.

[EdV]

And I would be remiss if I did not point out that contrary to what Kentucky Blue would have you believe, the homeowners in TV most certainly DO have representation through their elected officials on the Board of Directors of their respective CDDs.

North of 466, all of the Directors are elected by the homeowners. South of 466, while the build out continues, some of the directors are homeowner elected and some are Developer appointed. And all of this is done in accordance with Florida�s Chapter 190 which the CDDs are organized under.

[graciegirl]

I absolutely love the residents of TV, you live in this bubble, free from the outside world. Ben Bernanke says the economy is "unusally uncertain" and is weakening. But inside TV everything is just swell, i hope you are right and everybody else is just wrong.We should all have your postive outlook, living in the world of Disney and Mary Poppins. All i can say is...................... supercalifragilisticeexpialidocious, and hope reality never reaches TV.:confused:

Kentucky Blue.

The people who live in The Villages for the most part represent a group that were a little more careful with their money than younger people are today. They also have many among them whose parents lived through the depression and who learned to be frugal and "green" before that term was used. They worked harder and sacrificed more than younger people do today. They weren't impulsive and their financial situations now reflect that. Many people buy their homes outright and furnish them with money they have saved. They have lived long enough that most do not throw their money away and they give a lot of thought to a large financial decision.

It hurts me when you seem to group us all together as unrealistic. I am sure you didn't mean to give that impression. Many of us feel that this is a place that we would like to live and enjoy this part of our life. A good many do not live in "this bubble" full time and still continue to function doing useful and sometimes important things in the "outside world'.

I think that we take a risk buying any kind of home anywhere in this economy. The value may go down. As for the infrastructure,and governance here, most of us know how it is run and agree with the benefits and restrictions. The rules are like those in a restrictive housing development in any number of places. Someday the power to decide day to day issues will be placed completely in the hands of the homeowners. I don't even want to think about that time. I have lived through the power struggles and ego trips, the posturing and bad decisions of homeowners associations run by people whose main job is not that kind of management. People who can't keep their own finances or affairs in order. It makes me shiver to think about it.

Now that two years have passed with our half time occupation, we are doing what I thought we'd never do and are putting things in place live in TV full time. We are leaving a place that we were comfortable for a place that we enjoy immensely. We are being completely selfish, something new to us. There are no words to describe how much we love this atmosphere.
It occupies our time, there is something new to see and do every day, but most of all we are surrounded by wonderful people who make us laugh, make us think and surprise us.

It works for us.

Meaning no harm, and hoping that you will understand what I am trying to say.

Kindest wishes,
Gracie

[JimJoe]

And I would be remiss if I did not point out that contrary to what Kentucky Blue would have you believe, the homeowners in TV most certainly DO have representation through their elected officials on the Board of Directors of their respective CDDs.

North of 466, all of the Directors are elected by the homeowners. South of 466, while the build out continues, some of the directors are homeowner elected and some are Developer appointed. And all of this is done in accordance with Florida�s Chapter 190 which the CDDs are organized under.


I think we are getting the bonds mixed up again.. the bond on your home is not the ones challenged by the IRS and the CDD directors have nothing to do with them.

But although this is off the main point of the thread, the statement about the directors needs to be clarified. Someone help with letting us know when those directors became elected positions vs appointed by the developer as it pertains to the IRS bonds.
How many of those directors were elected at the time that the CDDs agreed to purchase property from the Director at prices the IRS "claims" were excessive and then sell the tax free bonds that were used to pay for those purchases that the IRS is going after the CDDs for which the homeowners in their amenities fee or reduced amenities, not the developer, will be financially responsible?
I sincerely want to know: did democracy come to those CDDS before or after the financial decisions now being challenged by the IRS were made by directors appointed by the developer? If those directors were elected before those purchases from the developer were made and the tax free bonds were sold to finance the purchases then homeowners have no gripe.. they elected those directors so they are responsible for the decisions..
BUT if the directors that made those decisions were not elected but instead appointed, it is NOT fair for the homeowners to be responsible for the IRS costs.... just as simple as that.
So which is it?

[The Shadow]

I think we are getting the bonds mixed up again.. the bond on your home is not the ones challenged by the IRS and the CDD directors have nothing to do with them.

But although this is off the main point of the thread, the statement about the directors needs to be clarified. Someone help with letting us know when those directors became elected positions vs appointed by the developer as it pertains to the IRS bonds.
How many of those directors were elected at the time that the CDDs agreed to purchase property from the Director at prices the IRS "claims" were excessive and then sell the tax free bonds that were used to pay for those purchases that the IRS is going after the CDDs for which the homeowners in their amenities fee or reduced amenities, not the developer, will be financially responsible?
I sincerely want to know: did democracy come to those CDDS before or after the financial decisions now being challenged by the IRS were made by directors appointed by the developer? If those directors were elected before those purchases from the developer were made and the tax free bonds were sold to finance the purchases then homeowners have no gripe.. they elected those directors so they are responsible for the decisions..
BUT if the directors that made those decisions were not elected but instead appointed, it is NOT fair for the homeowners to be responsible for the IRS costs.... just as simple as that.
So which is it?

Check this out.....

CDDs suggest format to elect council
Staff Report
Published: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 6:30 a.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 4:52 p.m.

( page of 5 )

THE VILLAGES - Supervisory board chairmen of community development districts 1-4, representing all Villages residents north of County Road 466, met last week to hammer out a common format for electing members of the soon-to-be created Resident Advisory Council - a group intended to provide homeowners with greater and more effective input regarding the use of amenity fees and other issues of concern.
Snip......
http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070530/REPORTER/205310306/1131/REPORTER

[EdV]

I think we are getting the bonds mixed up again.. the bond on your home is not the ones challenged by the IRS and the CDD directors have nothing to do with them.

But although this is off the main point of the thread, the statement about the directors needs to be clarified. Someone help with letting us know when those directors became elected positions vs appointed by the developer as it pertains to the IRS bonds.
How many of those directors were elected at the time that the CDDs agreed to purchase property from the Director at prices the IRS "claims" were excessive and then sell the tax free bonds that were used to pay for those purchases that the IRS is going after the CDDs for which the homeowners in their amenities fee or reduced amenities, not the developer, will be financially responsible?
I sincerely want to know: did democracy come to those CDDS before or after the financial decisions now being challenged by the IRS were made by directors appointed by the developer? If those directors were elected before those purchases from the developer were made and the tax free bonds were sold to finance the purchases then homeowners have no gripe.. they elected those directors so they are responsible for the decisions..
BUT if the directors that made those decisions were not elected but instead appointed, it is NOT fair for the homeowners to be responsible for the IRS costs.... just as simple as that.
So which is it?

How many times am I going to have to repeat this before it finally sinks into some of you that no homeowner in The Villages has, nor ever will own so much as one blade of grass or one brick of the executive golf courses, recreation centers, and community pools. Those were built by the Developer and remained his property and were not conveyed to anyone that purchased a home in TV. And that fact is made very clear in the closing documents and contract that each homeowner signed.

So why some of you insist on thinking that homeowners in TV should have a vote on something that they don�t own (in whole or in part) is beyond me.

All of the recreation facilities north of 466 were place under control of the special Village Center Community Development District (VCDDD) and all of the recreation facilities south of 466 were placed under control of the special Sumter Landing Community Development District (SLCDD). And since The Developer owns all of the recreation facilities in those two CDDs he has and will continue to excersise his right to appoint the members of the board of those two communities now and for the foreseeable future, and they will continue to vote the way he wants them to.

Now when you buy a home in TV, you are entitled to vote for membership of the board for the numbered CDD (1 through 10) in which you reside. That board will make decisions about maintenance of the common grounds (but not the recreation facilities because they are not part of that CDD) and will set the annual maintenance fee that you will be charged to replace all those flowers, mow and beautify the beltways, dredge the retention ponds of algae, etc. and do all the other things that make TV such a beautiful place to live.

And no amount of complaining or flag waving is going to change that because that�s just the way it is.

[villages07]

EdV.... your facts are correct. I've studied this setup and it sure took awhile to comprehend it. It is neither simple nor straightforward. The types of CDDs (numbered residential vs central) and types of bonds (residential infrastructure vs recreation/amenity vs utility) are easily confused and interchanged when they shouldn't be.

Amenities (pools, exec golf, rec centers) are managed by the central CDDs. These CDDs are run by commercial landowners, which, in essence, is the Developer. Residents have some input into projects and priorities via various community improvement councils and amenity authority committee, but, it is input only and non-binding. The central CDDs will own the amenities as they are purchased from the Developer. We, the residents, pay an amenity fee to the central CDD for the right to use the amenity facilities.

Everyone should attend the CDD orientation class put on by the Villages. It is a good overview on our form of government and the amenity structure.

[Bogie Shooter]

How many times am I going to have to repeat this before it finally sinks into some of you that no homeowner in The Villages has, nor ever will own so much as one blade of grass or one brick of the executive golf courses, recreation centers, and community pools. Those were built by the Developer and remained his property and were not conveyed to anyone that purchased a home in TV. And that fact is made very clear in the closing documents and contract that each homeowner signed.

So why some of you insist on thinking that homeowners in TV should have a vote on something that they don�t own (in whole or in part) is beyond me.

All of the recreation facilities north of 466 were place under control of the special Village Center Community Development District (VCDDD) and all of the recreation facilities south of 466 were placed under control of the special Sumter Landing Community Development District (SLCDD). And since The Developer owns all of the recreation facilities in those two CDDs he has and will continue to excersise his right to appoint the members of the board of those two communities now and for the foreseeable future, and they will continue to vote the way he wants them to.

Now when you buy a home in TV, you are entitled to vote for membership of the board for the numbered CDD (1 through 10) in which you reside. That board will make decisions about maintenance of the common grounds (but not the recreation facilities because they are not part of that CDD) and will set the annual maintenance fee that you will be charged to replace all those flowers, mow and beautify the beltways, dredge the retention ponds of algae, etc. and do all the other things that make TV such a beautiful place to live.

And no amount of complaining or flag waving is going to change that because that�s just the way it is.


For a non-villager this guy sure know a lot.

[BobKat1]

Not necessarily a bad thing, if it's accurate...

[JimJoe]

Thank you for making the point. Democracy NEVER came to the villagers even as they pay the bills for maintenance, and the amenities are bought using the villagers money.
I think the villagers deserve a vote and voice.

[mulligan]

Thank you for making the point. Democracy NEVER came to the villagers even as they pay the bills for maintenance, and the amenities are bought using the villagers money.
I think the villagers deserve a vote and voice.
Having been involved with the management of 1,700 condominium units, encompassing 7 separate associations, you really don't want to go there.

[Russ_Boston]

I was well aware of the central CDD situation. That's why we pay an amenities fee every month. Don't think it makes much difference who really owns the facilities as long as we pay, and get to use them. Seems to have worked well so far.

[pat_fitzgerald]

My wife and i waited 4 years before deciding we were going to stay put so i paid off the bond. The interest charged is not deductible and what i was getting for the money in the bank was minimal (1%).

Not the same decision everyone makes but it was a joint decision and we are happy with it.

[Vinny]

Vinny, I like your car dealer analogy. Pick out your favorite car with all the extras you want and the dealer will tell you what his price is. Let's say he won't haggle, but you agree to the set price. He wants 20% up front. The contract says you lose your 20% and there are other penalties if you change your mind later.

He told you before you signed that he has a dealer's prep cost of $1000. When you first bought cars long ago preparing the car was included in the price, but now is added on. You were aware of it before you signed. Yes, it's a way he makes more money but, so what, that's the way it is now. He tells you it will take four weeks to get the car and prep it.

Finally, you go to pick up your new car, pay him the money including his dealer's prep charge. Then he says to you "not so fast. That $1000 was my dealer's prep charge four weeks ago when you signed the contract. Since then I've had to pay my employees and rent on the building and other things, so now you owe me $500 more."

True, nobody twisted your arm to buy that car. Shouldn't you just accept that's the way things are?

P.S. I'm done with this thread and will be following Xavier's advice to take the lemons I've been given and let them ferment for a year. With a little vodka, I'll have something with which to make a nice toast to TV.
Huh? Apples and oranges. Weird logic but then again that may be the crux of the problem you have with the bond. You are comparing a situation where the terms of a contract were changed after it was signed to our bond situation which is what it is and not going to change after you sign your contract. No I would not accept an unlawful change to a binding contract so how in your mind is this the same as the bond situation here? I can tell already that you will end up unhappy because there are other issues besides the bond that would drive you crazy here. You cannot desire something and then mold it to your tastes without changing that which you first desired. Enough time wasted on this. Good luck.

[aljetmet]

I think we are getting the bonds mixed up again.. the bond on your home is not the ones challenged by the IRS and the CDD directors have nothing to do with them.

But although this is off the main point of the thread, the statement about the directors needs to be clarified. Someone help with letting us know when those directors became elected positions vs appointed by the developer as it pertains to the IRS bonds.
How many of those directors were elected at the time that the CDDs agreed to purchase property from the Director at prices the IRS "claims" were excessive and then sell the tax free bonds that were used to pay for those purchases that the IRS is going after the CDDs for which the homeowners in their amenities fee or reduced amenities, not the developer, will be financially responsible?
I sincerely want to know: did democracy come to those CDDS before or after the financial decisions now being challenged by the IRS were made by directors appointed by the developer? If those directors were elected before those purchases from the developer were made and the tax free bonds were sold to finance the purchases then homeowners have no gripe.. they elected those directors so they are responsible for the decisions..
BUT if the directors that made those decisions were not elected but instead appointed, it is NOT fair for the homeowners to be responsible for the IRS costs.... just as simple as that.
So which is it?
I'm confused. How many bonds are there? The original poster was annoyed to pay interest on a "bond" that he was going to pay off on day one.
Not so illogical. He is buying a home and this is strictly business. This has nothing to do with how much he loves TV. It was the developer who decided to market their properties this way, not the buyers. The developer could have simply added the "bond" cost to the cost of each house. Therefore the developer should eat the interst cost. (Please don't tar and feather me) I've been reading threads on the IRS issue and bonds for months. Am I wrong in simply saying the bond is covering amenities and the infrastructure surrounding TV homes? In my simple mind, the developer came up with a method using Florida law to finance these amenities utilizing tax free bonds. (The IRS seems not to be in agreement) Therefore reducing the cost to his customers. Please let me know which statements of mine are incorrect. I'm sure there are lot's of TOTVers out there who are confused as well. thanks!

[Bogie Shooter]

. I'm sure there are lot's of TOTVers out there who are confused as well. thanks!
Not really.

[Pats2010]

I'm sure there are lot's of TOTVers out there who are confused as well. thanks!
Reply With Quote


Yes, Really!!!

[Pturner]

You are comparing a situation where the terms of a contract were changed after it was signed to our bond situation which is what it is and not going to change after you sign your contract. No I would not accept an unlawful change to a binding contract so how in your mind is this the same as the bond situation here? I can tell already that you will end up unhappy because there are other issues besides the bond that would drive you crazy here. You cannot desire something and then mold it to your tastes without changing that which you first desired. Enough time wasted on this. Good luck.

I agree with the part of Vinny's post that I bolded. The rule for paying off the bond on a TV home is publicized by VCDD. The fact that the bond can be paid off only in July is posted on the VCDD website.

Unless Soon2Be's agent told him that he could payoff the bond at closing, I believe he simply was mistaken in thinking that he could. For that, I think we have been too hard on him. If we were honest, we all probably could acknowledge ever having gotten angry about something, only to learn later that we were mistaken in our understanding of the situation. All of us no doubt could admit to having made costly mistakes.

Vinny, I don't agree with the second part of your post. I think and hope and pray that Soon2Be will be as happy in TV as we are. We can all help make that happen by having a little more empathy, and by welcoming him with open arms like the good, kind-hearted-- also imperfect-- people that we are!

[Pats2010]

Good post Pturner but I remember someone saying something on this forum awhile back. He said that if a person is generally unhappy and always looks at the glass as half-empty, more then likely the koolaid will not effect him much once he or she gets down there to the Villages.

[K9-Lovers]

Don't know if my case applies to new construction . . . but I bought a resale and was told I could pay off my bond at time of closing.

[kentucky blue]

Not really.

And that is the core of the problem, to not research EVER aspect of the entire Village structure, so you are completely satisfied with it's future is foolhardy at best. Don't shoot the messengers.No doubt TV is filled with terrific people, anybody that lives next to Gracie and several others on this board are blessed.But everytime the so called outsiders bring up bond issues, IRS problems, fees, lack of representation , they are attacked like a swarm of bees.Anybody that thinks they know how the IRS will rule , are only kidding themselves.I don't care which day they pick up the garbage, i want to get past all the garbage, and learn about all the substantial issues, that lets me know TV's really has a long term future.

[Russ_Boston]

I think a lot of us are aware of the IRS ruling on the tax free bond status. BUT from what we can determine - even if the ruling goes against the tax free status the monetary punishment will not be severe when spread out among everyone in that Special district. In fact I would think that they'd have to issue another bond and roll that extra amount into your amenities fee since we are talking about the SVCDD.

But it didn't stop me from my TV plans.

[Arnie]

We are in the early stages of looking at TV - haven't visited yet. I was really glad I saw the information on bonds. I can't believe that a person would be charged interest on a paid off bond. From what I see the cost of amenities and the bond would run about $300 to $400 a month. That is a big expense out of the monthly budget for anyone including us. Not sure if we will be visiting TV.

[Bogie Shooter]

And that is the core of the problem, to not research EVER aspect of the entire Village structure, so you are completely satisfied with it's future is foolhardy at best. Don't shoot the messengers.No doubt TV is filled with terrific people, anybody that lives next to Gracie and several others on this board are blessed.But everytime the so called outsiders bring up bond issues, IRS problems, fees, lack of representation , they are attacked like a swarm of bees.Anybody that thinks they know how the IRS will rule , are only kidding themselves.I don't care which day they pick up the garbage, i want to get past all the garbage, and learn about all the substantial issues, that lets me know TV's really has a long term future.

What percent of the buyers in TV do not do as you say?

[Kelsie52]

Arnie --There are many homes (resales) that have no bond --

I cant tell you not to be cautious but the numbers may be lower than you estimate----

I am in the process of buying a designer -the payment is about 1500 a year --125 approx a month plus the 135 ammenities fee...

There are also homes with smaller bonds.....

Even if you feel the bond issue turns you off ----------you still should visit --

you might change your mind

Good Luck

[EdV]

....... BUT from what we can determine - even if the ruling goes against the tax free status the monetary punishment will not be severe when spread out among everyone in that Special district. In fact I would think that they'd have to issue another bond and roll that extra amount into your amenities fee since we are talking about the SVCDD.......

Nope, they can�t even do that. The amenity fee is contractually limited to going up by no more than the consumer price index which would be absorbed to pay for the increase in the price of services. Furthermore, those two special districts that The Developer controls has absolutely no taxing authority over the 10 numbered CDDs and the homeowners that reside in them. So in the end, if the IRS prevails, it will be up to those two CDDs and only those two CDDs to figure out how to refinance and recall those bonds and pay any back taxes due the IRS.

[The Shadow]

I think a lot of us are aware of the IRS ruling on the tax free bond status. BUT from what we can determine - even if the ruling goes against the tax free status the monetary punishment will not be severe when spread out among everyone in that Special district. In fact I would think that they'd have to issue another bond and roll that extra amount into your amenities fee since we are talking about the SVCDD.

But it didn't stop me from my TV plans.
You address the financing of the punishment but neglected to explain how the redemption of the tax free bonds would be financed if it was ruled the SVCDD can not issue tax free bonds.

[Pats2010]

Arnie --There are many homes (resales) that have no bond --

I cant tell you not to be cautious but the numbers may be lower than you estimate----

I am in the process of buying a designer -the payment is about 1500 a year --125 approx a month plus the 135 ammenities fee...

There are also homes with smaller bonds.....

Even if you feel the bond issue turns you off ----------you still should visit --

you might change your mind

Good Luck

:wave: Good advice!!!!

[spk7951]

We are in the early stages of looking at TV - haven't visited yet. I was really glad I saw the information on bonds. I can't believe that a person would be charged interest on a paid off bond. From what I see the cost of amenities and the bond would run about $300 to $400 a month. That is a big expense out of the monthly budget for anyone including us. Not sure if we will be visiting TV.

Your numbers may be a little high. If I look at our bond and amenities cost it comes out to $255 per month.
As far as the bond payoff charge, we took out a home equity loan recently and at the "closing" we were told that if we paid off the loan is less than 12 months we would be charged a fee of $750 but after the 12 months no fee. I understood the reason but was not happy to hear that at closing. However since we knew we would not be paying the loan off that early it did not matter to us. Not much different from the bond payoff.

[aljetmet]

Not really.

I just want someone who understands to explain. Based on all the wonder threads I've read on this forum, there is no question we're going to buy in TV. It's just a matter of when. I do have a passion of understanding of what's really going on. Especially the bond.

[JimJoe]

Nope, they can�t even do that. The amenity fee is contractually limited to going up by no more than the consumer price index which would be absorbed to pay for the increase in the price of services. Furthermore, those two special districts that The Developer controls has absolutely no taxing authority over the 10 numbered CDDs and the homeowners that reside in them. So in the end, if the IRS prevails, it will be up to those two CDDs and only those two CDDs to figure out how to refinance and recall those bonds and pay any back taxes due the IRS.




Please tell us how they will do it? All I can think of is sell assets (golf courses or rec centers)? What other options would they have?

[mulligan]

How about bonds that are not tax-free??

[BobKat1]

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but do any other retirement communities, in Florida specifically, have similar bond issues?

Or is TV developed and managed differently than most? Thanks.

[graciegirl]

Please tell us how they will do it? All I can think of is sell assets (golf courses or rec centers)? What other options would they have?

If it comes to that, I would imagine that the developer would pay the tax fee.

It would be to his business best interest and he has the money.

[JimJoe]

If it comes to that, I would imagine that the developer would pay the tax fee.

It would be to his business best interest and he has the money.

I would hope so but then why did some villagers have to sue a few years back to get maintenance done on amenities, a multimillion dollar settlement paid out over a few years, and the formation of the amenities advisory board?

[EdV]

Please tell us how they will do it? All I can think of is sell assets (golf courses or rec centers)? What other options would they have?

There are numerous ways, but the most obvious is to recall the tax free bonds and issue new taxable municipal bonds. This wouldn’t be done as one huge transaction but would be executed over an agreed upon period of time and the IRS would be paid their share as the transactions were completed. Even as a taxable bond, these CDD municipal bonds would be considered more attractive than a similarly priced corporate bond because of the traditionally lower risk.

As for other similar communities in Florida, I believe there are over 700 other CDD based communities in Florida

[The Shadow]

If it comes to that, I would imagine that the developer would pay the tax fee.

It would be to his business best interest and he has the money.
�I would imagine� wrong answer. I have to debit your account one cookie.

[graciegirl]

�I would imagine� wrong answer. I have to debit your account one cookie.

Shadow!

Take that back and call me a cockeyed optimist. Sigh.

[JimJoe]

There are numerous ways, but the most obvious is to recall the tax free bonds and issue new taxable municipal bonds. This wouldn�t be done as one huge transaction but would be executed over an agreed upon period of time and the IRS would be paid their share as the transactions were completed. Even as a taxable bond, these CDD municipal bonds would be considered more attractive than a similarly priced corporate bond because of the traditionally lower risk.

As for other similar communities in Florida, I believe there are over 700 other CDD based communities in Florida

Sorry but I still dont understand. I don't think that answers the question where the money come from, and who pays it.

A. Would current bond holders give up high interest municipal bonds they hold and are making big interest by current standards that are tax free back to the CDD when interest rates are so much lower now? If the IRS forces them to give them up because they will not be considered tax free wouldnt the bond holders then want a large payment from the CDDS to sell them back or exchange them for non tax free bonds?

B. IF the current bond holders refuse to exchange the bonds for non tax free bonds and want cash plus interest or penalty, do you think other investors will buy non tax free bonds that are not backed by anything or by amenities that the IRS says were sold for far more than they were worth and part of the money is going to be used to to pay IRS fines and penalties? Would that cost a premium?
How would the new investor be protected if you are right that the CDDS have no power to tax? Who would the new investor expect to be the source of the money to repay the bond so they can decide if it is a safe investment, especially if the CDD cannot tax?

C. Even if A and B above can be overcome, where does that money come from to pay back the replacement bonds? Where is that money coming from now? From the amenities fee? I am guessing it will come from the villagers themselves either by assessments and if those are not allowed, the amenities will have to be sold ( and no longer available to the villagers for their amenity fees) to pay the bonds or the IRS, and/or the amenity fee will be used to pay the new bonds and the amenities themselves will not be maintained or be reduced.
So who ultimately pays the cost?

[The Shadow]

Shadow!

Take that back and call me a cockeyed optimist. Sigh.

Shows you what I know, I thought you were promoted to �blond optimist�. I�m funin with ya.

[mulligan]

They are now serviced by the amenity fees.

[iaudit]

Nope, they can�t even do that. The amenity fee is contractually limited to going up by no more than the consumer price index which would be absorbed to pay for the increase in the price of services. Furthermore, those two special districts that The Developer controls has absolutely no taxing authority over the 10 numbered CDDs and the homeowners that reside in them. So in the end, if the IRS prevails, it will be up to those two CDDs and only those two CDDs to figure out how to refinance and recall those bonds and pay any back taxes due the IRS.




Because the two CDDs cannot increase their income, any expenditures to issue new bonds and pay back taxes would have to come from decreasing expenditures in other areas. No new flowers every couple of months at intersections, less maintenance on the golf courses, fewer employees at the rec centers, close a rec center or two, close a golf course or two. It has to impact the residents in some way UNLESS the Morse family stands up to the plate and makes things right since it was their representatives pushing the envelope on the CDD concepts.

[spk7951]

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but do any other retirement communities, in Florida specifically, have similar bond issues?

Or is TV developed and managed differently than most? Thanks.


I can not remember where I read it but I recall something like 650 other CDD's in FL could be affected by this IRS issue, so the outcome of this is not just a TV issue.

[kentucky blue]

It has to impact the residents in some way UNLESS the Morse family stands up to the plate and makes things right since it was their representatives pushing the envelope on the CDD concepts.

That will happen the same day pigs fly and hell freezes over.The villager's sued them once to pay up, what's going to happen this time????? There is alot of intelligent and informative dialogue in this thread, i'm impressed with the knowledge of the posters.Now, if we could only get some of you to represent TV on the council.You all have a great weekend , and remember......If you do something tonight,that you'll be sorry for in the morning.... just sleep late.:)

[graciegirl]

Here is a link to The Property Owners Association's monthly newsletters. If I remember correctly this is the group who sued the Developer for improperly installed vinyl siding. It was not nailed in correctly on a group of homes south of 466 about three years ago. That is the lawsuit you are talking about, I think.

Kentucky Blue, I think you will enjoy reading these newsletters.

http://www.ccfj.net/POABull.html

[cabo35]

In the words of Bobby McFerrin

Don't worry...be happy

In your life expect some trouble
But when you worry
You make it double
Don't worry, be happy......

Have a wonderful day in The Villages

[Pats2010]

Here is a link to The Property Owners Association's monthly newsletters. If I remember correctly this is the group who sued the Developer for improperly installed vinyl siding. It was not nailed in correctly on a group of homes south of 466 about three years ago. That is the lawsuit you are talking about, I think.

Kentucky Blue, I think you will enjoy reading these newsletters.

http://www.ccfj.net/POABull.html

Graciegirl,

I just finished reading the July issue of the POA and it was very informative. On page 8 there is a letter from a Civil War soldier to his wife Sarah. Extraordinary.

On page 13 there was a funny article about a "Hole Eats Groundkeeper" in which a ten foot sink hole swallowed a guy at 6:30 in the morning and the writer was laughing at how the "old people" who rushed out there, looked like at that hour. He wished he had his camera.
There is also a list of the 20 Sex Offenders and their addresses who live in the Villages!
I found it interesting that the writer scolded the daily Villages newspaper for not printing any bad news that happens at the Villages. Apparently the Sun did not report the Golf Sink Hole.
I'll have to Bookmark this site.

[EdV]

I can not remember where I read it but I recall something like 650 other CDD's in FL could be affected by this IRS issue, so the outcome of this is not just a TV issue.

Well the Orlando Sentinel implied this in a couple of news articles last year but there’s very little truth to it. The IRS is going after the two special CDDs in TV simply because they don’t contain any residential homes, are made up entirely of commercial property that is strictly controlled by the developer, and will never be turned over and governed by the homeowners in TV. Because of that, the IRS contends that those CDDs are not qualified to issue tax free bonds.

The 10 numbered CDDs in TV as well as (I suspect) the majority of the other CDDs in Florida follow the guidelines that the IRS has set up for tax free bond status and are probably not in jeopardy.

[spk7951]

Well the Orlando Sentinel implied this in a couple of news articles last year but there�s very little truth to it. The IRS is going after the two special CDDs in TV simply because they don�t contain any residential homes, are made up entirely of commercial property that is strictly controlled by the developer, and will never be turned over and governed by the homeowners in TV. Because of that, the IRS contends that those CDDs are not qualified to issue tax free bonds.

The 10 numbered CDDs in TV as well as (I suspect) the majority of the other CDDs in Florida follow the guidelines that the IRS has set up for tax free bond status and are probably not in jeopardy.


The following is a quote from the February 2010 Property Owners Association of The Villages newsletter:
"The tax exempt status of certain VCCDD and SLCDD bonds is currently under review by the IRS and all 600 plus residential CDDs located throughout Florida are watching closely to see the IRS decision in that investigation."