Pedestrian Traffic on Multi-Modal Paths in Southern Region of Villages

[Group2100]

I have a question about pedestrians walking on the multi-modal paths. Specifically, in which direction should they walk - against vehicular traffic or in the same direction as vehicular traffic?

I ask the question because while watching the portion of the Golf Cart Safety Video on the VHA website, it shows pedestrians walking in both directions - one with pedestrians facing oncoming golf carts and the other shows a couple walking with their backs towards approaching vehicular traffic (see attached screen shot).

I realize that the ideal answer would be to walk within neighborhood streets or on pedestrian trails, but there is a large portion of the multi-modal path running along the turnpike with limited numbers of carts for now. However, there are a large number of bicycles along that portion of the multi-modal path. I would rather walk towards oncoming traffic so I can see the hazard rather than have approaching from behind.

Thanks in advance.

[billethkid]

Pedestrian Safety | NHTSA (https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/pedestrian-safety)

[Bogie Shooter]

I think it was the first grade, "walk on left facing traffic". Some have just forgot...…...

[mills3186]

It's just like driving a car. Stay to the right. 95% of the people do this, it's dangerous to walk against the flow onto incoming pedestrian, bike and golf car traffic.

[golfing eagles]

It's just like driving a car. Stay to the right. 95% of the people do this, it's dangerous to walk against the flow onto incoming pedestrian, bike and golf car traffic.

Maybe in Australia, not here

[Bogie Shooter]

It's just like driving a car. Stay to the right. 95% of the people do this, it's dangerous to walk against the flow onto incoming pedestrian, bike and golf car traffic.

This so wrong in so many ways!

[BobnBev]

It's just like driving a car. Stay to the right. 95% of the people do this, it's dangerous to walk against the flow onto incoming pedestrian, bike and golf car traffic.

Congrats!!! You've got it 100% WRONG.:boom:

[anothersteve]

Maybe in Australia, not here

:bigbow:

Steve

[VApeople]

We live in Osceola Hills and often drive down to Marsh Bend to walk the trail around Hogeye.

Along the part that goes along the MMP, we always walk facing the golf cart traffic.

The rest of the trail is for walkers, runners, and bikers only. They used to have these flimsy poles to show that carts were not supposed to be on these trails, but some of the inconsiderate cart riders would drive on them anyway. As a result, the management had to install some very substantial poles and large rocks to make it almost impossible for carts to go on these trails. Good!

[andercat]

I have been taking a morning walk each day since activities have stopped. Most people walk facing traffic. One couple with their dog was walking with traffic. As I approached them, I mentioned that walking against traffic was considered to be safer. They told me that their dog decided what side of the street to walk. Another couple with a dog was walking again with traffic. I didn't say anything to them. They volunteered that they knew they were walking on the wrong side of the road but walked where their dog led them. I thought people had higher IQ's than dogs. Evidently I was wrong.

[Fredster]

I doubt if they got hit and injured, that their dogs
would come visit them in the hospital.

[Velvet]

I doubt if they got hit and injured, that their dogs
would come visit them in the hospital.

Now that is funny! How easy it must be to lead people who even a dog can lead?

[Blackie]

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.130.html

If there is a sidewalk you must walk on it and not in the road.

If there is no sidewalk you must walk on the left, facing oncoming traffic.

[tophcfa]

It's just like driving a car. Stay to the right. 95% of the people do this, it's dangerous to walk against the flow onto incoming pedestrian, bike and golf car traffic.

You walk on the left side facing the traffic, that way you can see what’s coming at you and get out of the way if necessary. I would never walk with my back to oncoming traffic and assume people passing me will do so safely. Especially with electric carts that I can’t hear coming until it would be too late.

[anothersteve]

The only exception I would make is walking the golf cart bridge over 441. I would walk with traffic going up and against going down.

Steve

[pauld315]

The only exception I would make is walking the golf cart bridge over 441. I would walk with traffic going up and against going down.

Steve

I would never walk across that bridge...very dangerous and narrow

[pauld315]

You walk on the left side facing the traffic, that way you can see what’s coming at you and get out of the way if necessary. I would never walk with my back to oncoming traffic and assume people passing me will do so safely. Especially with electric carts that I can’t hear coming until it would be too late.

I have often been tempted to ask people who are walking in the same direction as traffic if they grew up in a city that had sidewalks everywhere. I did but I remember being taught at a very young age to always walk against traffic if you are in the country and there are no sidewalks.

Here is a real life incentive for you to walk against traffic. Just this afternoon, I was walking in the MMP lane on Rio Grande against traffic. Perfectly clear, beautiful day. I saw a golf cart about a quarter mile away coming towards me. I moved over all the way to the left against the curb even though there was no traffic on the road at all and the golf cart could easily go around me by going in the road. I was wearing red workout shorts and a lime green shirt and I am not a small guy. This guy just kept driving straight toward me. When he got about 20 yards from me I started clapping my hands and yelling at him, he kept coming so I jumped up onto the grass. Finally, when he was maybe 10 feet from me he finally noticed me and swerved into the street. If I had been walking with traffic, I wouldn't have seen this guy coming up from behind and would not have warned him. There is a good possibility he would have run me over.

[FriscoKid]

As stated above, walking facing traffic is the safest choice.

Btw, when riding your bike, riding w/traffic is the safer choice. In that case, the bigger danger is people making right turns onto the roadway you are traveling from side streets. By habit, drivers entering a road and making a right turn will look for traffic coming from their left... if you are riding against traffic, they frequently will not look for/see you approaching them from their right (riding against traffic). Often with fatal consequences.

[Topspinmo]

I have been taking a morning walk each day since activities have stopped. Most people walk facing traffic. One couple with their dog was walking with traffic. As I approached them, I mentioned that walking against traffic was considered to be safer. They told me that their dog decided what side of the street to walk. Another couple with a dog was walking again with traffic. I didn't say anything to them. They volunteered that they knew they were walking on the wrong side of the road but walked where their dog led them. I thought people had higher IQ's than dogs. Evidently I was wrong.

Some dogs are stubborn and leader of the pack,

[Topspinmo]

As stated above, walking facing traffic is the safest choice.

Btw, when riding your bike, riding w/traffic is the safer choice. In that case, the bigger danger is people making right turns onto the roadway you are traveling from side streets. By habit, drivers entering a road and making a right turn will look for traffic coming from their left... if you are riding against traffic, they frequently will not look for/see you approaching them from their right (riding against traffic). Often with fatal consequences.

And be ready to step off onto grass for you’re own safety, you don’t want to be dead right.:faint:

[Topspinmo]

I would never walk across that bridge...very dangerous and narrow

Especially when carts come off top!

[hardwick2112@yahoo.com]

You must also drive on the left side of roads and highways.

[hardwick2112@yahoo.com]

You probably are.

[jaye_wolfe]

I always walk facing traffic. That way I can look the driver who is going to wipe me out in the eye.

[woderfulwendy1]

Yep, First grade, is where they taught this, in the US and in UK.

[rochellepfaff]

Always walk on the left, towards traffic. Always!!!!! It's Florida law. You can look it up. I did. You need to see what is coming towards you so you can get out of the way if it becomes obvious the car doesn't see you. Just hearing the car behind you does not tell you if it is about to run you over. I learned this as a child. It is so much safer to see what it coming towards you. Bikes travel with traffic. Pedestrians walk against traffic!!

[Chatbrat]

Very few walkers adhere to the sidewalk rules, how can a herd of walkers carry on their conversations if they're not alongside each other(about a year ago a woman was killed doing the same thing)--viewed three women walking in total darkness this morning on Tamarind Grove Run, two were on the road one was on the sidewalk, a plus for them, they were lit up like a Christmas tree--I was driving to my mail box

[kayak]

The video you are referencing is from the VHA. It is for safety and training purposes and they got it wrong. The VHA needs to hear from all of us. Walking on the right with your back toward traffic is for those who have a death wish. Showing that on a safety video is unacceptable.

[Chatbrat]

The woman who was killed had her back to traffic and was hit by a golf cart

[davem4616]

always face the traffic...why is this even a question

I find it odd that walkers sometimes seem to take an 'entitled' attitude and fearlessly try to demonstrate that they have the right of way

dumb....car, truck, cart, tractor, bike, whatever coming at ya...jump the heck out of the way and live to talk about it

otherwise you may have been in the right, but you'll be dead right

[Bill Harlan]

No,no,no when walking always go against the traffic. Remember some carts are electric and very quiet as are bicycles. If you don’t hear the vehicle how can to avoid it? We were taught at a young age ,if no sidewalk is available always walk against the traffic for safety

[dennisgavin]

The only exception I would make is walking the golf cart bridge over 441. I would walk with traffic going up and against going down.

Steve

I'd hitch a ride!

[GaryKoca]

In the Chicago area, we walk with the traffic at our back. Down here, people walk with the traffic facing them and coming at them, which is a much better idea, frankly. That way you can see the traffic coming toward you.

[ts12755]

Walkers and joggers always move against cart flow. Dont count on cart drivers seeing you, because some wont and they will run right over you.

[kellylake]

Walking on the left, facing traffic is not a matter of opinion or choice (or your dog’s choice). It is Florida Law.

[stan the man]

I think it was the first grade, "walk on left facing traffic". Some have just forgot...…...

I skipped first grade

[dougjb]

In my first year in TV, I was walking on the multi-modal path on the right side. Up north, along bike/ped trails, the rule of the National Park Service is to walk on the right. So,that is what I was doing. A fellow walker on the opposite side of the multi-modal stopped me and she suggested I walk facing traffic. She used a very good example. She pointed out that many of the cart drivers in TV are old and may not see that well. Indeed, some may have lost their driving privileges because of their vision. She simply asked, "Would you really rather see such a driver coming to you....or would you like to hear a cart slide up behind you when it slams on its brakes just before hitting you?" Her point was well taken and is the same direction we had as kids: Walk against traffic! Shame on the National Park Service!

[theruizs]

In the Chicago area, we walk with the traffic at our back. Down here, people walk with the traffic facing them and coming at them, which is a much better idea, frankly. That way you can see the traffic coming toward you.
Are they trying to reduce the population? :icon_wink:

[runkcrun]

Here's a twist to consider.

I run on the MMP daily. I always run facing oncoming traffic. I've observed a lot of cart driver behaviors while out there. Here are couple of suggestions for safety and enjoyment of all...

1.) I suggest that the distance allowed for runners/walkers should be the same as for passing a biker - 3 feet. I very much appreciate when carts allow a lot of room when passing, and when they do I smile and wave my thanks.

2.) Often carts expect runners/walkers to get completely off the MMP. Please, please don't force a runner/walker into the grass. It is VERY difficult for a runner/walker to get all the way to the edge of the MMP BECAUSE the concrete and the bituminous are at different levels and the concrete is too narrow for two foot plant. It is also VERY difficult to run in the grass. These are trip hazards, and at our age, we have to limit those as much as possible.

3.) I have noticed that in the DIVIDED areas of the MMP (one way sections), carts are reluctant to move to the inside (high curb side) for fear of hitting the curb. I often switch sides of THAT one way lane, still facing traffic, in these areas so that I am running nearest the raised curb, on the driver side of the road. I have found drivers are more willing to increase the space as they pass me.
Yes, I have gotten a few strange looks when I do this, but also get a lot more room when being passed. Again, I ONLY do this on the DIVIDED parts of the MMP.

4.) With the social distancing rule of 6 feet, when I meet another runner/walker on a sidewalk, one of us will usually move either stepping into the road in the cart lane, or if possible onto the grass. The one facing traffic should be the one to step into the cart lane if no cart is coming, then return to the sidewalk ASAP.

I will say that for the most part cart drivers are pleasant and considerate.

Let's all stay safe and be kind to one another!

Thanks!

[theruizs]

We had tried walking the multi-modal paths but decided to just stick to sidewalks. Having to cross the street a few times to keep going just felt safer than the mm paths. Even walking against traffic on them felt dangerous to us. It was clear that many cart drivers were really annoyed when they came upon us, and we found ourselves stepping off the path often to let the cart pass. Plus we could rarely walk next to each other to talk comfortably. We would NEVER walk those paths on the right, that’s just a death wish.

[meridian5850]

I have been taking a morning walk each day since activities have stopped. Most people walk facing traffic. One couple with their dog was walking with traffic. As I approached them, I mentioned that walking against traffic was considered to be safer. They told me that their dog decided what side of the street to walk. Another couple with a dog was walking again with traffic. I didn't say anything to them. They volunteered that they knew they were walking on the wrong side of the road but walked where their dog led them. I thought people had higher IQ's than dogs. Evidently I was wrong.

So, the dog was walking its people. :icon_wink:

[GoldenBoy]

I have a question about pedestrians walking on the multi-modal paths. Specifically, in which direction should they walk - against vehicular traffic or in the same direction as vehicular traffic?

I ask the question because while watching the portion of the Golf Cart Safety Video on the VHA website, it shows pedestrians walking in both directions - one with pedestrians facing oncoming golf carts and the other shows a couple walking with their backs towards approaching vehicular traffic (see attached screen shot).

I realize that the ideal answer would be to walk within neighborhood streets or on pedestrian trails, but there is a large portion of the multi-modal path running along the turnpike with limited numbers of carts for now. However, there are a large number of bicycles along that portion of the multi-modal path. I would rather walk towards oncoming traffic so I can see the hazard rather than have approaching from behind.

Thanks in advance.
I walk 5.5 miles per day on the multi modals. I've been doing that for five years. Always walk against traffic. I have been brushed by more golf carts than I can count. The worst time is when snowbirds are around. They believe the multi modals are golf cart expressways and apparently many can't see past the windshields. NEVER let them approach from behind. I used to carry a 2 iron to swing at carts that approach too close. Now I just scream at the unsafe drivers.

[Chatbrat]

If they have lost their driving privileges, it also applies to golf carts--the exact term, is shall not operate any motorized vehicle

[caljeff]

From the Boy Scouts: Generally Facing traffic.

[TandHSTAR@AOL.com]

Always walk against traffic either on roadway or multi media road. That way you can see what is coming at you. Stay safe.

[Bogie Shooter]

I skipped first grade

////////
No, decided I wouldn't......

[kendi]

dogs are often trained to walk on one side of the person. My dog is trained to walk on my right side which makes it easier for her to step into the grass when needed. I have never walked her on multimodal paths until moving to TV so walking on the right side of the sidewalk was best for pedestrian flow. It’s also easier to move out of the way cause the dog is moving off the path and the person can stay on the edge. And it’s good because I have me between my dog and a passing dog which gives me more control in keeping her mind on the walk and not the dog. Having said that, when my path changes to include golf carts I do switch to the left side of the path with my dog still on my right. It’s not as convenient, but safer.

[bp243]

Grew up learning to walk facing traffic. That way you know what’s approaching and you can get out of the way if necessary. Seems important for you to be in charge and responsible for keeping yourself safe.

[HMLRHT1]

The correct way to walk on the streets or multi modal paths is for the walkers to always walk toward traffic. This way they can see the vehicles and if need be get out of the way. It also allows walkers and drivers to make eye contact. It’s very dangerous to have your back to traffic and not being able to see what’s coming toward you.

[BRK1939]

This thread sort of provides a clue as to why we as humans find it hard to agree on anything, even in a case of National emergency. I thought that the answer to this question was so blatantly obvious that it was kindergarten stuff but reading some of these responses it is equally obvious that I may be wrong !
As for dogs doing the deciding -- what planet did these folks come from ?
Enjoy this wonderful day folks,

[LadyPenO]

Walking toward oncoming traffic is safest for pedestrians. Gives you a chance to jump out of the way of an out of control driver with a medical issue which has happened several times here in TV.

[John_W]

For those who walk with your back to the traffic, don't forget to bring along your telephone.

https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/20130809__5a78f2ab-ec58-4be9-897d-625a7b4211cbp2.jpg?w=620

[Rosebud1949]

Walk on the sidewalk if there is one, joggers too ...Dont make Carts on the roads swerve to avoid you. Walk against traffic on modal paths STEP ASIDE on wide curves, carts cannot see round corners. Many near misses.

[Mumbles]

It's just like driving a car. Stay to the right. 95% of the people do this, it's dangerous to walk against the flow onto incoming pedestrian, bike and golf car traffic.

When I ride my bike, I go WITH the traffic. When I walk I go to the side of the street that FACES oncoming traffic. It's a lot easier to jump out of the way of a cart/ car/truck in front of you than to turn around just in time to see them hitting you from behind.

When there is only one path you can walk on, a multi modal is iffy at best.
Peace Out

[Mumbles]

We live in Osceola Hills and often drive down to Marsh Bend to walk the trail around Hogeye.

Along the part that goes along the MMP, we always walk facing the golf cart traffic.

The rest of the trail is for walkers, runners, and bikers only. They used to have these flimsy poles to show that carts were not supposed to be on these trails, but some of the inconsiderate cart riders would drive on them anyway. As a result, the management had to install some very substantial poles and large rocks to make it almost impossible for carts to go on these trails. Good!
See? this is an example of the Powers that Be interfering with out freedom. AND THAT'S WHAT SOMETIMES HAS TO BE DONE FOR OUR SAFETY!
Peace Out

[Satjr35031]

Always walk facing traffic Always ride your bike with traffic

[Group2100]

I want to thank all of you that replied to my question on the best direction for pedestrian traffic on multi-modal paths (MMP). I posed the question because my wife and I were enjoying a walk along the Hogeye Preserve multi-modal path late Tuesday morning. We started out from the Everglades Recreation Center and walked westbound to the spot where the new bridge will span the turnpike. It was a lovely walk and we exchanged pleasantries (from a safe distance) with many friendly Villagers. As we turned to walk back, a woman walking with her husband pointed to my wife and asked in a hostile tone, "Do you LIKE walking on the wrong side??"

My wife was taken aback and replied we were walking against motorized traffic. The woman bitterly replied, "That's not how we do it here! You don't know the law!" We kept walking back to our car. I am aware of the Florida laws in relation to pedestrian traffic but I wanted to check to be sure we were not in violation of any Villages rules or regulations.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

[Velvet]

I want to thank all of you that replied to my question on the best direction for pedestrian traffic on multi-modal paths (MMP). I posed the question because my wife and I were enjoying a walk along the Hogeye Preserve multi-modal path late Tuesday morning. We started out from the Everglades Recreation Center and walked westbound to the spot where the new bridge will span the turnpike. It was a lovely walk and we exchanged pleasantries (from a safe distance) with many friendly Villagers. As we turned to walk back, a woman walking with her husband pointed to my wife and asked in a hostile tone, "Do you LIKE walking on the wrong side??"

My wife was taken aback and replied we were walking against motorized traffic. The woman bitterly replied, "That's not how we do it here! You don't know the law!" We kept walking back to our car. I am aware of the Florida laws in relation to pedestrian traffic but I wanted to check to be sure we were not in violation of any Villages rules or regulations.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

I think there are some psychotic individuals even in TV. I never try to reason or disagree with one. Not safe.

[Bogie Shooter]

I think there are some psychotic individuals even in TV. I never try to reason or disagree with one. Not safe.

Read the previous posts,,,,,,some even post on here.

[kcrazorbackfan]

From an individual (me) that worked many accidents, always against traffic; they’ve got to have some kind of death wish to walk the same direction as traffic.

[russtcc]

You were totally right to walk facing motorized traffic. Shouldn't even be a question.

[CFrance]

I have been taking a morning walk each day since activities have stopped. Most people walk facing traffic. One couple with their dog was walking with traffic. As I approached them, I mentioned that walking against traffic was considered to be safer. They told me that their dog decided what side of the street to walk. Another couple with a dog was walking again with traffic. I didn't say anything to them. They volunteered that they knew they were walking on the wrong side of the road but walked where their dog led them. I thought people had higher IQ's than dogs. Evidently I was wrong.
Some people never realized that they are the alpha over their dogs and needed to teach them that.


Your dog's on a leash; he will walk on whatever-the-heck side of the road you choose.

[Topspinmo]

I have often been tempted to ask people who are walking in the same direction as traffic if they grew up in a city that had sidewalks everywhere. I did but I remember being taught at a very young age to always walk against traffic if you are in the country and there are no sidewalks.

Here is a real life incentive for you to walk against traffic. Just this afternoon, I was walking in the MMP lane on Rio Grande against traffic. Perfectly clear, beautiful day. I saw a golf cart about a quarter mile away coming towards me. I moved over all the way to the left against the curb even though there was no traffic on the road at all and the golf cart could easily go around me by going in the road. I was wearing red workout shorts and a lime green shirt and I am not a small guy. This guy just kept driving straight toward me. When he got about 20 yards from me I started clapping my hands and yelling at him, he kept coming so I jumped up onto the grass. Finally, when he was maybe 10 feet from me he finally noticed me and swerved into the street. If I had been walking with traffic, I wouldn't have seen this guy coming up from behind and would not have warned him. There is a good possibility he would have run me over.

You was in blind spot, either by glare or mirror or roof support/windshield. If the angle right he didn’t see you till you popped from behind the blind spot.

[Starfire]

Walk on the sidewalk if there is one, joggers too ...Dont make Carts on the roads swerve to avoid you. Walk against traffic on modal paths STEP ASIDE on wide curves, carts cannot see round corners. Many near misses.

Unfortunately, I have been noting a number of incidents where a walker will step off the sidewalk and into the cart lane to maintain 6 feet from another walker going the other way. The most recent one did it about 10 cart lengths in front of me as I was going 20 MPH. Fortunately for them, I had anticipated this and knew there was no car traffic and was able to zip into the car lane. WALK in the grass, not the cart lane!!!!!

[holmesperdue]

If they want to live they better walk against the traffic. Think about 2 or 3 carts coming up behind them; the first can see the walkers and pulls out to pass them. How close is the cart behind the first cart - does he see them in time; maybe, maybe not - how about the third or fourth cart. That situation happened (a little differently, but still the same) on Sunset Blvd a couple of years ago - the lady lived a week in the hospital in pain!!!

[Two Bills]

Some people never realized that they are the alpha over their dogs and needed to teach them that.


Your dog's on a leash; he will walk on whatever-the-heck side of the road you choose.

Absolutely.
We had dogs for years.
They were all an important part of the family, but they all new their place.
Bottom of the pecking order.
The cats were a bit different, and we and the dogs all understood our place was under them!

[NavyVet]

Horrified by the dog owners that allow their dog to walk wherever they want. Tragedy waiting to happen!
DOG TRAINING 101: Always teach your dog to walk on your LEFT side on a leash. There are reasons for that, including safety. You walk on the left against traffic (as per law) and that keeps you between the dog and the dangers of the road. Dogs are unpredictable and can suddenly pull to the side - right into oncoming traffic.
If everyone does it consistently, then a dog being walked in the opposite direction is safely on the OTHER side of the road with their human barrier. Many dogs are terrified of other dogs and this keeps a safe distance for all. Dogs need guidance; if people can't be bothered to teach their dog the basics, they shouldn't be dog owners.
A pet peeve: I hate those long flexileads. Dogs should be walked on 4 - 6 feet leashes next to your LEFT side. People let their dogs run across streets to "greet" us without reining them in and the next thing you know you have a confrontation with 2 upset snarling dogs. NOT COOL!!! Also, walking is for exercise. My dogs relieve themselves in their yard before their walkies or wait until they get back to THEIR own yard. They walk in the street and we do not let them onto other people's lawns. It's common sense and really quite simple.

[furbish]

Reminds me of a quote years ago from Mayberry, NC, Deputy Sheriff Barney Fife: "Walk on the left after dark, or you'll wind up playin' a harp".