China hid extent of coronavirus outbreak per US Intel

[TexaninVA]

I’ve been watching, and wondering, why China’s total reported cases of the virus has been more or less stationary for the last week in the low 80,000s. Good to know US intel has been addressing the issue. They’ve now concluded:

• “The Chinese government has deliberately underreported the total number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the country, the U.S. intelligence community told the White House, a new report says.

• Bloomberg, citing three U.S. officials, reported Wednesday that the intelligence community said in a classified report that China’s public tally of COVID-19 infections and deaths is purposefully incomplete.

• The secret report concludes that China’s numbers are fake, two of the officials said, Bloomberg reported. The White House received the report last week, according to the news outlet.”

Coronavirus: China hid extent of outbreak, US intelligence reportedly says (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html)

[gadaboutgal]

and this has to do with talking about The Villages?

[DianeM]

I’ve been watching, and wondering, why China’s total reported cases of the virus has been more or less stationary for the last week in the low 80,000s. Good to know US intel has been addressing the issue. They’ve now concluded:

• “The Chinese government has deliberately underreported the total number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the country, the U.S. intelligence community told the White House, a new report says.

• Bloomberg, citing three U.S. officials, reported Wednesday that the intelligence community said in a classified report that China’s public tally of COVID-19 infections and deaths is purposefully incomplete.

• The secret report concludes that China’s numbers are fake, two of the officials said, Bloomberg reported. The White House received the report last week, according to the news outlet.”

Coronavirus: China hid extent of outbreak, US intelligence reportedly says (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html)

Why does this not shock me?

[TexaninVA]

and this has to do with talking about The Villages?


While you may be surprised to learn this, it turns out some people are actually curious about what's going on outside The Villages, especially in this instance.

[TexaninVA]

Why does this not shock me?

Because you have common sense and are well-informed?? :icon_wink:

[DianeM]

and this has to do with talking about The Villages?

Because TV really is not in a bubble and exists on the same planet as other countries who are suffering because of actions of others.

[DianeM]

Because you have common sense and are well-informed?? :icon_wink:

Thank you.

[manaboutown]

Tucker Carlson had a most informative show last night. He pointed out the closest the intermediate horseshoe bats which carry the virus live, at their nearest, 900 KM away from Wuhan. The species do not inhabit the Wuhan area but were being used for experimentation in at least one of the two biological labs in Wuhan.

Also another Chinese doctor, Dr. Ai Fen, who said too much has 'been disappeared' according to Australian 60 Minutes..

I find it very interesting that over 21,000,000 cell phone accounts in China have been canceled since the outbreak began there.

[Two Bills]

I would imagine every government is doing some creative counting.
Some are just more creative than others!

[TexaninVA]

I would imagine every government is doing some creative counting.
Some are just more creative than others!

Maybe so to some extent, but a totally false equivalence to compare Communist China's ability to lie / cheat / steal vs that of USA.

Not saying you said that ... just making an observation. :icon_wink:

[Velvet]

I would imagine every government is doing some creative counting.
Some are just more creative than others!

Yes, I was born in a very “creative” Communist European country, where Stalin was the Virgin Mother, or I mean the Holy Father, until he wasn’t.

I wouldn’t trust any “information” coming from a Communist country ever. Their word for communication is our word for manipulation.

[44Apple]

Who gives a crap? Emphasis should be on current and future efforts to stop it.

[DianeM]

Who gives a crap? Emphasis should be on current and future efforts to stop it.

I give a crap because it will clue us in on the deceitful behavior we have suspected all along and provide an impetus to return to making our own “stuff” and not be reliant on anyone going forward.

[DianeM]

Yes, I was born in a very “creative” Communist European country, where Stalin was the Virgin Mother, or I mean the Holy Father, until he wasn’t.

I wouldn’t trust any “information” coming from a Communist country ever. Their word for communication is our word for manipulation.

Your last line is fantastic

[Nucky]

Don't give to much of a Crap unless you have plenty of Toilet Paper. Sorry! :duck:

[Topspinmo]

Who gives a crap? Emphasis should be on current and future efforts to stop it.

You should give crap, the world was lied too which means emphasis could be put on much earlier.

[Velvet]

Yes, I definitely remember when the information said that the virus spread very slowly.

[44Apple]

American government was given plenty of warnings, failed to act, laughed it off. Now where are we?

[DianeM]

American government was given plenty of warnings, failed to act, laughed it off. Now where are we?

We DID act. We closed our borders to China early on and then with Europe. What would you have done differently when no one here was sick?

[TexaninVA]

Who gives a crap? Emphasis should be on current and future efforts to stop it.

I can see that curiosity about major issues is not your strong point.

[TexaninVA]

American government was given plenty of warnings, failed to act, laughed it off. Now where are we?

You sound like a varsity Monday morning quarterback. :blahblahblah:

I'm sure you would have ordered a lock down in late February ... right?

[DianeM]

You sound like a varsity Monday morning quarterback. :blahblahblah:

I'm sure you would have ordered a lock down in late February ... right?

Hindsight is always 20/20

[Bogie Shooter]

We DID act. We closed our borders to China early on and then with Europe. What would you have done differently when no one here was sick?

Maybe opened the manual on how to handle a pandemic...……………………...

[graciegirl]

While you may be surprised to learn this, it turns out some people are actually curious about what's going on outside The Villages, especially in this instance.

It just is not important now except to anger us. We will sort it out after the life and death crisis that is NOW facing us, is my opinion. So if they did? No one can do anything much about world affairs at this moment.

[DianeM]

Maybe opened the manual on how to handle a pandemic...……………………...

Were the directions outlined in chapter 2 or 3. I never got my copy.

[DianeM]

It just is not important now except to anger us. We will sort it out after the life and death crisis that is NOW facing us, is my opinion. So if they did? No one can do anything much about world affairs at this moment.

Anger can be a wonderful thing. It pushes us into finding new and better ways to protect ourselves going forward. This cannot be put on a back burner. We were royally lied to and need to know all the moving parts so as to protect ourselves today and even more importantly tomorrow.

[Bogie Shooter]

Were the directions outlined in chapter 2 or 3. I never got my copy.

I recently watched an interview with Newt Gingrich and he referenced the study he was involved in that reported a step by step process to deal with these kinds of world issues.
He said, "it was there someone should have looked at the report".

[DianeM]

I recently watched an interview with Newt Gingrich and he referenced the study he was involved in that reported a step by step process to deal with these kinds of world issues.
He said, "it was there someone should have looked at the report".

Perhaps old Newtie should have opened his mouth sooner

[thomp679]

Were the directions outlined in chapter 2 or 3. I never got my copy.

Here is a copy. Happy reading.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pdf/pan-flu-report-2017v2.pdf

Here are broader resources for you to study.

Pandemic Preparedness Resources | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/pandemic-preparedness-resources.html)

[DianeM]

Here is a copy. Happy reading.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pdf/pan-flu-report-2017v2.pdf

Here are broader resources for you to study.

Pandemic Preparedness Resources | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/pandemic-preparedness-resources.html)

Aren’t you generous. I find the plot a little dry.

[Bogie Shooter]

Here is a copy. Happy reading.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pdf/pan-flu-report-2017v2.pdf

Here are broader resources for you to study.

Pandemic Preparedness Resources | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/pandemic-preparedness-resources.html)

Thanks for posting. I knew you would be attacked.

[graciegirl]

Perhaps old Newtie should have opened his mouth sooner

Getting angry about who caused the car accident is put aside until the people lying dying on the pavement are cared for.

I think that many are reacting to anxiety by getting mad, but the horse is out of the barn. That ship has sailed. We are all hog tied and quarantined. I can't think what anyone could do about China at this moment. I am sure that President Trump and Congresswill see to it that just punishment is meted out, in due time. In due time.

[DianeM]

Getting angry about who caused the car accident is put aside until the people lying dying on the pavement are cared for.

I think that many are reacting to anxiety by getting mad, but the horse is out of the barn. That ship has sailed. We are all hog tied and quarantined. I can't think what anyone could do about China at this moment. I am sure that President Trump and Congresswill see to it that just punishment is meted out, in due time. In due time.

I’m furious and that’s my right. The lies have screwed up all of the world. Even in the car accident, evidence is gathered and we’re gathering tons. Not that I think we’ll do anything about it. Americans get screwed and stupidly turn the other cheek.

[Bogie Shooter]

But, but the trade deal..........

[TexaninVA]

Maybe opened the manual on how to handle a pandemic...……………………...

Well, that manual was written by the previous administrations and it turns out it needed to be scrapped. :ohdear:

[DianeM]

But, but the trade deal..........

Trade “this”

[Bucco]

Well, that manual was written by the previous administrations and it turns out it needed to be scrapped. :ohdear:

IF you read, you would know that present admin scrapped it early..read Rapid Response Team.

But....

[TexaninVA]

It just is not important now except to anger us. We will sort it out after the life and death crisis that is NOW facing us, is my opinion. So if they did? No one can do anything much about world affairs at this moment.

It's clearly not important to you, I agree. Don't read it or do you best to get past your "anger." :ohdear:

Regarding what can be done about it now, the USG can do multiple things at once and is (hopefully) already involved in crafting our strategy.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well, that manual was written by the previous administrations and it turns out it needed to be scrapped. :ohdear:

Original written in 2005 under President Bush. Then updated by following administrations.....and discarded by current administration.

[DianeM]

Original written in 2005 under President Bush. Then updated by following administrations.....and discarded by current administration.

Probably because the last administration rendered it useless.

[Bogie Shooter]

Oh well.

[graciegirl]

Well, that manual was written by the previous administrations and it turns out it needed to be scrapped. :ohdear:

This mutation. This virus. This Covid-19 is different than any other virus and this pandemic is different than any other pandemic. It is EXTREMELY contagious and we still do not know if people can suffer the illness from it twice. The Ebola virus, was far more deadly and killed faster with it's hemorrhaging, but much less contagious. I don't think we have yet seen how this nasty bug is going to act come fall. I pray that by some miracle that a vaccine is forthcoming sooner than 18 months to two years. All that we knew before is not that useful with this virus.

[CFrance]

Yes, I was born in a very “creative” Communist European country, where Stalin was the Virgin Mother, or I mean the Holy Father, until he wasn’t.

I wouldn’t trust any “information” coming from a Communist country ever. Their word for communication is our word for manipulation.
Wow, Velvet, I'm blown away by your description. Thanks.

[TexaninVA]

IF you read, you would know that present admin scrapped it early..read Rapid Response Team.

But....

Be my guest to give us an intelligent, in-depth analysis of what your trying to say, the pros/cons of the plan and why it would have given us a bulletproof plan. I've seen the document ... good but not totally relevant to what we faced with the Wuhan virus, which essentially came out of a bio-weapons lab.

From one source critical of the admin:

"While an NSC official confirmed the playbook’s existence to Politico, the person quite richly claimed it was of little value. “We are aware of the document, although it’s quite dated and has been superseded by strategic and operational biodefense policies published since,” the official said. “The plan we are executing now is a better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons learned from the playbook and the most recent Ebola epidemic in the [Democratic Republic of the Congo] to COVID-19.”

[gadaboutgal]

We DID act. We closed our borders to China early on and then with Europe. What would you have done differently when no one here was sick?

Jan. 24, a week before the travel restrictions, the CDC confirmed two cases of the novel coronavirus in the U.S. from people who had returned from Wuhan, China, where the outbreak began.
Even when travel restrictions were finally imposed they did not include US citizens who traveled to/from Wuhan.

The Facts on Trump's Travel Restrictions - FactCheck.org (https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/)

JMO Any information regarding this topic would best be sourced outside of TOV.

[CFrance]

We DID act. We closed our borders to China early on and then with Europe. What would you have done differently when no one here was sick?
I don't believe that happened until someone here got sick. The first case in the US was January 20. Travel from China was not banned till January 31.


Coronavirus: A timeline of the pandemic from China'''s first case to now - Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-pandemic-timeline-history-major-events-2020-3)

[Bucco]

Oh well.

There are certainly those on here who will ignore truth at any cost. This entire situation would have played out much differently had not that pandemic team been dissolved, although nobody seems to recall that except those who served on it.

Lots of other " if's " to discuss when over...truth never changes...just sits there waiting to be found. Doesn't leave because someone denies it.

But, you cannot force feed truth. If you turn your back on it....

[CFrance]

and this has to do with talking about The Villages?
If you read the home page of TOTV, you will see that there are a myriad of subjects that can be discussed on the forum. To start with, there are two main ones--items relating to TV itself, and non-TV general items.


Going further, you'll see sports, jokes, NOTHING, Girl Talk, etc., etc. Take a look at the categories on the home page. If someone posts something in one category that a mod or Admin thinks doesn't belong in that category, they will move it and tell you.:)

[TexaninVA]

This mutation. This virus. This Covid-19 is different than any other virus and this pandemic is different than any other pandemic. It is EXTREMELY contagious and we still do not know if people can suffer the illness from it twice. The Ebola virus, was far more deadly and killed faster with it's hemorrhaging, but much less contagious. I don't think we have yet seen how this nasty bug is going to act come fall. I pray that by some miracle that a vaccine is forthcoming sooner than 18 months to two years. All that we knew before is not that useful with this virus.

I agree with that, particularly your last sentence, or at least the gist of that point.

[Bucco]

I don't believe that happened until someone here got sick. The first case in the US was January 20. Travel from China was not banned till January 31.


Coronavirus: A timeline of the pandemic from China'''s first case to now - Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-pandemic-timeline-history-major-events-2020-3)

Beginning of Feb....forgive me not sure of the date......on a network, seemed like an entire evening spent mocking those who feared a pandemic.....attended by top ...top ...govt official. And I believe about Feb 20, prime time (10PM) opened declaring zero deaths..not to worry so on

[DARFAP]

and this has to do with talking about The Villages?I

This forum is "Non Villages Discussion." You must have gotten lost.

[gadaboutgal]

Not lost. This was originally started on The Villages Florida General Discussion.

[Bucco]

This all happened two weeks ago and more and it might as well have been two centuries ago. All of the "experts" were learning as we went along because we didn't have really dependable evidence of almost everything, including death tolls. We didn't even know who our "experts" were three weeks ago. AND even the experts have reversed themselves in the short time we have been facing this scourge. This is not a political matter at this point. It is a health matter at this point. If this pandemic was started on purpose than Katie Bar the door, later on...……... But right now, it is in the hands of the health people and the governments to try to make us do what we should do.

For the most part, I agree with your posts. If you look back, that was my theme, but some posters continue to tell lies...flat out untruths and I got angry....lying always makes me angry.

You are generally correct, but ask you put this in your memory bank. When current admin disbanded the response team who would have been on this months in advance, BOTH PARTIES pleaded with the WH to reinstate. And were ignored. This is a basis to begin to understand the depth of the deaths caused by such political delays.

You are correct, and I agree...focus on this "curse", and I apologize...I tried, but you have heard me talk about lying...I detest liars and those who enable them, and certain posters have decided to use this forum to spread untruths and insinuations.

There WILL be time to revisit them....they will still exist. Thanks to the hated media, we have videos, etc.

God Bless you and your family and stay safe.

[GoodLife]

For the most part, I agree with your posts. If you look back, that was my theme, but some posters continue to tell lies...flat out untruths and I got angry....lying always makes me angry.

You are generally correct, but ask you put this in your memory bank. When current admin disbanded the response team who would have been on this months in advance, BOTH PARTIES pleaded with the WH to reinstate. And were ignored. This is a basis to begin to understand the depth of the deaths caused by such political delays.

You are correct, and I agree...focus on this "curse", and I apologize...I tried, but you have heard me talk about lying...I detest liars and those who enable them, and certain posters have decided to use this forum to spread untruths and insinuations.

There WILL be time to revisit them....they will still exist. Thanks to the hated media, we have videos, etc.

God Bless you and your family and stay safe.

Whoopsie Mr Truth

Washington Post
March 16, 2020

No, the White House didn't disband it's pandemic response office. I was there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

[Bucco]

Whoopsie Mr Truth

Washington Post
March 16, 2020

No, the White House didn't disband it's pandemic response office. I was there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Your OPINION piece I read. You need to do background check on facts presented.

[Bucco]

Another interesting bit.....

“Roughly 280 million masks in warehouses around the U.S. were purchased by foreign buyers on Monday alone, according to Forbes. A FEMA spokesperson said the agency ‘has not actively encouraged or discouraged U.S. companies from exporting overseas’.”"

Who might be managing this ?

[Bucco]

I apologize for losing my temper with a few posters who are determined to lie, insinuate untruths, instead of actually wanting to know.

I will leave but my fuse is short with liars..very short...but leave you with....

on Feb. 7, with the coronavirus working its way around the United States, the White House administration sent some 17.8 tons of medical supplies, which included masks, respirators and other personal protective equipment (PPE) to China.

Google it, fact check it....but we are not supposed to question this ?

God Bless and everyone stay safe.

[DianeM]

I apologize for losing my temper with a few posters who are determined to lie, insinuate untruths, instead of actually wanting to know.

I will leave but my fuse is short with liars..very short...but leave you with....

on Feb. 7, with the coronavirus working its way around the United States, the White House administration sent some 17.8 tons of medical supplies, which included masks, respirators and other personal protective equipment (PPE) to China.

Google it, fact check it....but we are not supposed to question this ?

God Bless and everyone stay safe.

On February 7th the virus was not an issue here so we were trying to help. No good turn goes unpunished as we now know they lied through their teeth about cases and deaths. Bet they had a good laugh at our expense.

[Bucco]

On February 7th the virus was not an issue here so we were trying to help. No good turn goes unpunished as we now know they lied through their teeth about cases and deaths. Bet they had a good laugh at our expense.

Yep.....then it was still a political dirty trick ? A hoax ?

Even though US INtelligence had been warning for, at that time about two months of what was coming, but heck, the jokes about those alarmed would never work, right ?

[DianeM]

Yep.....then it was still a political dirty trick ? A hoax ?

Even though US INtelligence had been warning for, at that time about two months of what was coming, but heck, the jokes about those alarmed would never work, right ?

What are you trying to say?

[anothersteve]

I am saying our admin did not listen to intelligence...I am saying the priorities are screwed up.


Like it's the first time that happened. Politics as usual on BOTH sides!
Steve

[Bucco]

I don't believe that happened until someone here got sick. The first case in the US was January 20. Travel from China was not banned till January 31.


Coronavirus: A timeline of the pandemic from China'''s first case to now - Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-pandemic-timeline-history-major-events-2020-3)

AND the travel "ban" had so many exceptions it was weak

[Bucco]

Like it's the first time that happened. Politics as usual on BOTH sides!
Steve

NOT EVEN CLOSE..NOT NEAR usual

And reminder....this discussion is about maybe the worst thing to happen to this country....much, if not most avoidable

[anothersteve]

NOT EVEN CLOSE..NOT NEAR usual

And reminder....this discussion is about maybe the worst thing to happen to this country....much, if not most avoidable

Yes and it's a time to come together, not divide, and try to prove who's the smartest idiot
Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!

[CFrance]

Yes and it's a time to come together, not divide, and try to prove who's the smartest idiot
Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!


Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people![/QUOTE]
That's hardly a unifying statement.

[anothersteve]

Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!
That's hardly a unifying statement.[/QUOTE]

Well , maybe take it in the context it was given to some previous posts.

[manaboutown]

Yes and it's a time to come together, not divide, and try to prove who's the smartest idiot
Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!

What does the "H" stand for?

[graciegirl]

That's hardly a unifying statement.

Well , maybe take it in the context it was given to some previous posts.[/QUOTE]

I was about to cuss too.

[hrenner]

Our experts predicted the outbreak...trumps own people. He ignored them.

We DID act. We closed our borders to China early on and then with Europe. What would you have done differently when no one here was sick?

[seoulbrooks]

Did these plans that everyone is carrying on about discuss how our (USA) industrial base was going to be recovered to fight a possible pandemic? The plans are absolute garbage without the base of basic medicines and supplies. Many administrations allowed critical pieces of our industrial base to erode and disappear to foreign shores. Fighting over a toothless plan is just another waste of energy and time. Fighting over who did what and when is just another waste of energy and time. As a country we have better come together and figure out how we survive this pandemic and how we prepare our country for future episodes of the like. Build the medicines, tools, supplies and structures to support a plan of action. Start working as a country again.

[daca55]

What if China did this on purpose that is released the virus? It has brought this country’s economy and the rest of the world plummeting. Could be their answer to all the trade talks. Think about it.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by anothersteve View Post
Yes and it's a time to come together, not divide, and try to prove who's the smartest idiot
Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!


What does the "H" stand for?


Harold - Our father who art in heaven Harold be thy name

[maggie1]

"I find it very interesting that over 21,000,000 cell phone accounts in China have been canceled since the outbreak began there."[/QUOTE]

Source, please.

[maggie1]

What if China did this on purpose that is released the virus? It has brought this country’s economy and the rest of the world plummeting. Could be their answer to all the trade talks. Think about it.

It just goes to show how fragile the most powerful nation in the world really is. I seriously doubt China purposely released the virus - it would be like biting the hand that feeds you. Virtually 90% of our every day use products are manufactured in China, plus our country is indebted (financially) to them for billions, for which we pay millions in interest on a daily basis. To bring our economy down would mean a stop to those payments.

[skip0358]

And what is China doing now? Making a boat load of money building ventilators to help those infected by a virus that started in China.

[nancymiller217@yahoo.com]

There have been clues. Google Crematoriums Wuhan.

Wuhan Residents Dismiss Official Coronavirus Death Toll: 'The Incinerators Have Been Working Around the Clock' | National Review (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/wuhan-residents-dismiss-official-coronavirus-death-toll-the-incinerators-have-been-working-around-the-clock/amp/)

[NotGolfer]

I've been chatting with people from the state we moved here from, in the midwest. They told me that they think Covid-19 may have been up there before the end of the year. In viewing the symptoms we're warned of...many had those back then. One friend had it and was ill for weeeks. I remember our e-mails. Doctors couldn't diagnose it and sent them home with standard "cold" helps. WHEN it hit here is moot though...because it's here now and everyone, world-wide is scrambling to figure it out and what to do with it. Debating and pointing blame now is, like someone else mentioned, like shutting the barn door after the horses got out. Would-have, should-have, could-have----has never worked well.

[Pedrocarrasco01@yahoo.com]

Since I also came from a Communist Country, no I would not believe any claims by any Communist Government, they spew “propaganda” we are getting a taste here by CNN and other news outlets, no wonder they are called “Fake News” by our President!!!!!

[Singerlady]

I’ve been watching, and wondering, why China’s total reported cases of the virus has been more or less stationary for the last week in the low 80,000s. Good to know US intel has been addressing the issue. They’ve now concluded:

• “The Chinese government has deliberately underreported the total number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the country, the U.S. intelligence community told the White House, a new report says.

• Bloomberg, citing three U.S. officials, reported Wednesday that the intelligence community said in a classified report that China’s public tally of COVID-19 infections and deaths is purposefully incomplete.

• The secret report concludes that China’s numbers are fake, two of the officials said, Bloomberg reported. The White House received the report last week, according to the news outlet.”

Coronavirus: China hid extent of outbreak, US intelligence reportedly says (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html)

No surprise EVER...from China.

[davem4616]

no surprise here that China wasn't truthful

hope that our business leaders and elected officials wake up and we begin to drastically lessen our dependency upon China

[TexaninVA]

I apologize for losing my temper with a few posters who are determined to lie, insinuate untruths, instead of actually wanting to know.

I will leave but my fuse is short with liars..very short...but leave you with....
.

Accusing people who disagree with you as "lying" is ...well, not normal nor civil. There is a lot of evidence however you do indeed have short fuze.

[TexaninVA]

I don't believe that happened until someone here got sick. The first case in the US was January 20. Travel from China was not banned till January 31.


Coronavirus: A timeline of the pandemic from China'''s first case to now - Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-pandemic-timeline-history-major-events-2020-3)

The rapid implementation of the ban was providential in retrospect. 11 days is "light speed" by USG standards, particularly when we were still grappling to understand the magnitude.

[TexaninVA]

AND the travel "ban" had so many exceptions it was weak

What exceptions are you referring to?

[TexaninVA]

Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!
That's hardly a unifying statement.[/QUOTE]

I think he was expressing his frustration with the preternatural urge by some on this board to pin the tail of blame on you know who.

Seems like some are drilling holes underneath the waterline and kibitzing while the captain is trying to save the ship, and all aboard.

[TexaninVA]

Did these plans that everyone is carrying on about discuss how our (USA) industrial base was going to be recovered to fight a possible pandemic? The plans are absolute garbage without the base of basic medicines and supplies. Many administrations allowed critical pieces of our industrial base to erode and disappear to foreign shores. Fighting over a toothless plan is just another waste of energy and time. Fighting over who did what and when is just another waste of energy and time. As a country we have better come together and figure out how we survive this pandemic and how we prepare our country for future episodes of the like. Build the medicines, tools, supplies and structures to support a plan of action. Start working as a country again.

Amen to that. :bigbow:

[TexaninVA]

What if China did this on purpose that is released the virus? It has brought this country’s economy and the rest of the world plummeting. Could be their answer to all the trade talks. Think about it.

I think that's a distinct possibility and is no doubt being studied inside top level compartmentalized channels. If true, that implies a hot war or some type of US retaliation ... pretty sobering. Let's pray it's not the case.

I still think it was an accidental release by the Chinese ... but it all remains to be proven either way.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by anothersteve View Post
Yes and it's a time to come together, not divide, and try to prove who's the smartest idiot
Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!





Harold - Our father who art in heaven Harold be thy name

Actually, that's pretty funny :icon_wink: even if somewhat irreverent. Made me laugh. :a040:

[junction29]

I’ve been watching, and wondering, why China’s total reported cases of the virus has been more or less stationary for the last week in the low 80,000s. Good to know US intel has been addressing the issue. They’ve now concluded:

• “The Chinese government has deliberately underreported the total number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the country, the U.S. intelligence community told the White House, a new report says.

• Bloomberg, citing three U.S. officials, reported Wednesday that the intelligence community said in a classified report that China’s public tally of COVID-19 infections and deaths is purposefully incomplete.

• The secret report concludes that China’s numbers are fake, two of the officials said, Bloomberg reported. The White House received the report last week, according to the news outlet.”

Coronavirus: China hid extent of outbreak, US intelligence reportedly says (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html)

When all this is over, China must be made to pay and pay heavily, for all the harm they have caused to the world economy!

No Democratic country should trade with them, but bring production and manufacturing back into their own countries and that of their true allies.

Already they have reopened their disgusting food markets and are bragging that their factories are back to full production 👿

[TexaninVA]

It just goes to show how fragile the most powerful nation in the world really is. I seriously doubt China purposely released the virus - it would be like biting the hand that feeds you. Virtually 90% of our every day use products are manufactured in China, plus our country is indebted (financially) to them for billions, for which we pay millions in interest on a daily basis. To bring our economy down would mean a stop to those payments.

Your comment is reasonable and makes sense. The counter is the CCP plays by a different set of rules than the (formerly) Judeo-Christian West. We would consider that immoral, they would evaluate it from the standpoint of efficacy in support of their strategy.

Their planning horizon is decades if not a century and they seek dominance at some point ... i.e., my opinion.

[TexaninVA]

When all this is over, China must be made to pay and pay heavily, for all the harm they have caused to the world economy!

No Democratic country should trade with them, but bring production and manufacturing back into their own countries and that of their true allies.

Already they have reopened their disgusting food markets and are bragging that their factories are back to full production 👿

I think you're correct. We need to re-engineer our trade patterns and return our manufacturing capability back home.

Seems like someone I've heard of has been advocating that for a number of years now.

[Bogie Shooter]

Since I also came from a Communist Country, no I would not believe any claims by any Communist Government, they spew “propaganda” we are getting a taste here by CNN and other news outlets, no wonder they are called “Fake News” by our President!!!!!

This is B.S.!

[TexaninVA]

This is B.S.!

Does that mean you too came from a Communist country and can refute what Pedro said?

[wmcgowan]

Tucker Carlson had a most informative show last night. He pointed out the closest the intermediate horseshoe bats which carry the virus live, at their nearest, 900 KM away from Wuhan. The species do not inhabit the Wuhan area but were being used for experimentation in at least one of the two biological labs in Wuhan.

Also another Chinese doctor, Dr. Ai Fen, who said too much has 'been disappeared' according to Australian 60 Minutes..

I find it very interesting that over 21,000,000 cell phone accounts in China have been canceled since the outbreak began there.

read this AXIO article - a timeline of the CVID-19: Timeline: The early days of China's coronavirus outbreak and cover-up - Axios (https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html)

[New Englander]

Ladies and gentlemen. We are all in a very stressful long term unpleasant situation. We can complain and disagree a bit about things but please, leave ALL politics out of it. Lets try to help each other with ideas and not fight.

[jnafix]

Originally Posted by anothersteve View Post
Yes and it's a time to come together, not divide, and try to prove who's the smartest idiot
Jesus H Christ I can't believe some people!





Harold - Our father who art in heaven Harold be thy name

:clap2:

[xNYer]

And what is China doing now? Making a boat load of money building ventilators to help those infected by a virus that started in China.

they engineered this crisis to build ventilators? Killing many of their own citizens and others worldwide to profit from the sale of ventilators

they had a massive trade surplus with the US and invested heavily in dollars.

but of course. changing the discussion to a blame of China helps evade any of the actions taken here to mitigate the crisis.

[Bogie Shooter]

Does that mean you too came from a Communist country and can refute what Pedro said?

No, just this part:
"we are getting a taste here by CNN and other news outlets, no wonder they are called “Fake News” by our President!!!!!"
The implication our news outlets are akin to communist propaganda is B.S.!

[graciegirl]

No, just this part:
"we are getting a taste here by CNN and other news outlets, no wonder they are called “Fake News” by our President!!!!!"
The implication our news outlets are akin to communist propaganda is B.S.!

I agree with Bogie. It is no better to be too far to one side as it is to be too far to the other.
I do think that the media too often gives opinions and not facts in order to "sell" air time and sometimes they don't agree with older wiser heads. But I am not yet ready to buy unproven conspiracy theories either. I don't think that our stress needs to be released as anger at a yet unproven theory.

I would be madder than hell if it were true, but it just doesn't make common sense to kill your own people. I am sticking that it was a mutation from eating an infected animal that passed through an intermediary to humans.

I hope if we live through this that more people's opinions will drift toward a little more moderation. I have said this many times. I think one of our world leaders suffers from Autism Spectrum Disorder. Bright but impulsive and inarticulate.

[Topspinmo]

This is B.S.!

You’re opinion, my opinion RIGHT on target.

[Topspinmo]

Ladies and gentlemen. We are all in a very stressful long term unpleasant situation. We can complain and disagree a bit about things but please, leave ALL politics out of it. Lets try to help each other with ideas and not fight.

Not going to happen.

[TexaninVA]

No, just this part:
"we are getting a taste here by CNN and other news outlets, no wonder they are called “Fake News” by our President!!!!!"
The implication our news outlets are akin to communist propaganda is B.S.!

I'm relieved to learn you didn't grow up in a Commie country:icon_wink:

[Topspinmo]

What does the "H" stand for?

Homer, not the O mighty!

[DianeM]

What if China did this on purpose that is released the virus? It has brought this country’s economy and the rest of the world plummeting. Could be their answer to all the trade talks. Think about it.

I agree with you completely. This was no accident.

[DianeM]

I think you're correct. We need to re-engineer our trade patterns and return our manufacturing capability back home.

Seems like someone I've heard of has been advocating that for a number of years now.

“Someone” has been spot on for quite a long time now. It’s a national disgrace that most, if not all, antibiotics are produced there.

[nututv]

Anyone out there that believes in the media (left, right or center) has never dealt with the media first hand. Sadly, twice in my life I have. It would have been three but Channel 10 Tampa was told to shut off the camera and leave or I'd do it for them.
This is a war and like all wars, the first casualty is always the truth.

[TexaninVA]

they engineered this crisis to build ventilators? Killing many of their own citizens and others worldwide to profit from the sale of ventilators

they had a massive trade surplus with the US and invested heavily in dollars.

but of course. changing the discussion to a blame of China helps evade any of the actions taken here to mitigate the crisis.

It seems like many people feel compelled to blame ourselves first ... probably a carryover from religious guilt maybe? Or maybe some type of societal self-dislike that easily rolls into the secular belief that America is the source of most of the world's problems.

Mea culpa, mea culpa

[manaboutown]

Since I also came from a Communist Country, no I would not believe any claims by any Communist Government, they spew “propaganda” we are getting a taste here by CNN and other news outlets, no wonder they are called “Fake News” by our President!!!!!

:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:

Having spent time in several communist countries and personally visited with many of their citizens I agree with your statements about the correlation between their propaganda generating press and our fake news spewing mainstream media. You are correct!

[DianeM]

It seems like many people feel compelled to blame ourselves first ... probably a carryover from religious guilt maybe? Or maybe some type of societal self-dislike that easily rolls into the secular belief that America is the source of most of the world's problems.

Mea culpa, mea culpa

Mea maxima culpa

[Two Bills]

I think you're correct. We need to re-engineer our trade patterns and return our manufacturing capability back home.

Seems like someone I've heard of has been advocating that for a number of years now.


If as you advocate, the US. is to bring production back from abroad, and still be competetive, the American worker better be prepapared to work for less than the minimum wage, or persuade the share holders to accept taking the hit, and we know that will fly like a lead baloon!
That was the main reason most companies moved abroad. Cheap labor, bigger profits and dividends, and of course, no unions.
Surely you cannot think for one moment that the American public will accept anything at a higher price, long term, just because it is 'Made in USA.'
Given an option, the majority will still buy the cheapest, wherever it comes from!

[JimJohnson]

I’ve been watching, and wondering, why China’s total reported cases of the virus has been more or less stationary for the last week in the low 80,000s. Good to know US intel has been addressing the issue. They’ve now concluded:

• “The Chinese government has deliberately underreported the total number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the country, the U.S. intelligence community told the White House, a new report says.

• Bloomberg, citing three U.S. officials, reported Wednesday that the intelligence community said in a classified report that China’s public tally of COVID-19 infections and deaths is purposefully incomplete.

• The secret report concludes that China’s numbers are fake, two of the officials said, Bloomberg reported. The White House received the report last week, according to the news outlet.”

Coronavirus: China hid extent of outbreak, US intelligence reportedly says (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html)
This post is not factual. China was more upfront with the problem than was the United States. I am a patriot, but the truth is the truth. I will not blame my mistakes on another.

[TexaninVA]

Mea maxima culpa

Exactly! I see you're familiar with the long ago Latin version. I remember it well.

[DianeM]

Exactly! I see you're familiar with the long ago Latin version. I remember it well.

Many many years of catechism

[TexaninVA]

This post is not factual. China was more upfront with the problem than was the United States. I am a patriot, but the truth is the truth. I will not blame my mistakes on another.

The post cites US intelligence sources. That's about as factual as one can get. Short version ... China lies through it's totalitarian teeth, and uses deception routinely. It often works on naive Westerners too.

However, I'm sure you are a patriot, misguided in some areas IMO, but I don't question that aspect.

[JimJohnson]

The post cites US intelligence sources. That's about as factual as one can get. Short version ... China lies through it's totalitarian teeth, and uses deception routinely. It often works on naive Westerners too.

However, I'm sure you are a patriot, misguided in some areas IMO, but I don't question that aspect.

Well, when Trump tells us he has a great relationship with China, I will not call him a liar.

[TexaninVA]

Many many years of catechism

Yes, the Baltimore Catechism, vs the 1990s version which is too long but serves as a good boat anchor. But I digress.

"Go in peace, glorifying the Lord by your life" and with that, back to topic.

[TexaninVA]

Well, when Trump tells us he has a great relationship with China, I will not call him a liar.

I think he's tried to make it work, but that relationship will be changing. He has to be careful for the next few months ... don't want to back into a confrontation or shooting war in South China Sea.

We need to get through this, craft our strategy and execute when we're in a better position.

[JimJohnson]

I think he's tried to make it work, but that relationship will be changing. He has to be careful for the next few months ... don't want to back into a confrontation or shooting war in South China Sea.

We need to get through this, craft our strategy and execute when we're in a better position.

I would ask, please put more trust in our leader. Being bad to China may hinder what potus is strategizing about. Please trust him more.

[TexaninVA]

If as you advocate, the US. is to bring production back from abroad, and still be competetive, the American worker better be prepapared to work for less than the minimum wage, or persuade the share holders to accept taking the hit, and we know that will fly like a lead baloon!
That was the main reason most companies moved abroad. Cheap labor, bigger profits and dividends, and of course, no unions.
Surely you cannot think for one moment that the American public will accept anything at a higher price, long term, just because it is 'Made in USA.'
Given an option, the majority will still buy the cheapest, wherever it comes from!

You raise a great point. :bigbow: No easy answers. We all wanted cheaper goods ... very few exceptions.

But, we're at a crossroads. We'll all have to adapt. Workers take less, management less, shareholders less, retirees get their pensions shaved somewhat and so forth. While we're at it, we should improve the level of education / understanding about Econ 101 which is partially what you're saying.

We need to save our country for our kids and grandkids. Maybe we need to go the WWII mode. People want Trump to invokes the DPA and others. Maybe it's time to do that, and more.

It will take unity and a strong leader, and a lot of prayer as well, even though I know the seculars will sigh at that.

[TexaninVA]

I would ask, please put more trust in our leader. Being bad to China may hinder what potus is strategizing about. Please trust him more.

Actually, you should turn that around 180

[GoodLife]

This post is not factual. China was more upfront with the problem than was the United States. I am a patriot, but the truth is the truth. I will not blame my mistakes on another.

This is like blaming the fire fighters after an arsonist sets your house on fire. Completely ridiculous.

[TexaninVA]

This is like blaming the fire fighters after an arsonist sets your house on fire. Completely ridiculous.

Exactly right. :bigbow:

It's actually more evidence of the prevalent "blame America first" dysfunction that seems to have been propagated by us baby boomers in the 1960s. Ultimately, if we keep that up, it becomes Darwinian self-selection.

The CCP, for sure, does not share that self-hatred or self-dislike of its society. I guess that's a long term advantage for them, unless or until enough people here pull their heads out.

[ts12755]

Actual chinese death count was 83000.

[rmd2]

Here is a copy. Happy reading.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pdf/pan-flu-report-2017v2.pdf

Here are broader resources for you to study.

Pandemic Preparedness Resources | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/pandemic-preparedness-resources.html)

Yes, like the preparedness that Cuomo when he was told to order more ventilators and didn't and when he got the report that NY was woefully unprepared for a Pandemic and when he spent the money instead for a green new deal that went belly up. You meant THAT preparedness?

[manaboutown]

Actual chinese death count was 83000.

That may be the number the ChiComs tell the world. But 21,000,000 Chinese cell phone accounts have been canceled since the Wuhan virus started to show up in humans.

[NavyVet]

One pair of hard working hands accomplishes more than a thousand clasped in prayer.

[rmd2]

“Someone” has been spot on for quite a long time now. It’s a national disgrace that most, if not all, antibiotics are produced there.

I think that will be stopping soon.

[rmd2]

You raise a great point. :bigbow: No easy answers. We all wanted cheaper goods ... very few exceptions.

But, we're at a crossroads. We'll all have to adapt. Workers take less, management less, shareholders less, retirees get their pensions shaved somewhat and so forth. While we're at it, we should improve the level of education / understanding about Econ 101 which is partially what you're saying.

We need to save our country for our kids and grandkids. Maybe we need to go the WWII mode. People want Trump to invokes the DPA and others. Maybe it's time to do that, and more.

It will take unity and a strong leader, and a lot of prayer as well, even though I know the seculars will sigh at that.

I would gladly pay 3 or more times the amount we currently pay to free ourselves from reliance to China for essential medical or military supplies and equipment!

[TexaninVA]

American government was given plenty of warnings, failed to act, laughed it off. Now where are we?

Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — President Trump in speaking to reporters.

Nancy Pelosi tours Chinatown and encourages people to visit. She invites all to “…come to Chinatown.” This video of the Speaker was made on February 24th, 2020.

Twitter (https://twitter.com/i/status/1244379830872936448)

The reality is that, even a month ago, almost no political leaders, D or R, really seemed to understand what we were then facing. That’s because it was a novel problem and, in the real world, that’s how it works. It takes a while for leaders to assess the situation. Planning helps, but it’s not a panacea. The old adage about war plans falling apart as soon as the enemy is engaged pertains here.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and accompanied by a swarm of Monday morning quarterbacks.

[eyc234]

Wait! A communist country, with death camps, that murders their own citizens in the seat of their country, sacrifices citizens for political whims and foments violence through out the world, tells lies!!!! Wait, wait let me show you my shock face!!!!!! :shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:

[DianeM]

I think he's tried to make it work, but that relationship will be changing. He has to be careful for the next few months ... don't want to back into a confrontation or shooting war in South China Sea.

We need to get through this, craft our strategy and execute when we're in a better position.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer

[TexaninVA]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer

Actually, wipe your (country's) enemies out, where & when possible.

[Twiganne]

Of course China is lying. That is what communist countries do. Interestingly enough I saw a thread on one of my sites. I wish I had it to share. It basically goes like this. In 2015 a reporter in Europe covered how the Chinese could start a pandemic. The Chinese have been working in labs forever developing viruses. They were warned by the WHO and many countries to quit this practice out of fear that the virus may escape from the lab and put entire countries at risk. So this shouldn’t shock you. The city they had the lab in was Wuhan. So what were they working on? They were combining one of the corona viruses and binding it to bat genes. I don’t find this coincidental. Perhaps the virus escaped a lab or perhaps it was brought out purposefully. I am not a conspiracy type of person. It doesn’t really matter. What is done is done. When this all over I can guarantee a lot of our drugs will no longer come from China and our companies will be producing them in the US. As far as I am concerned we should start gradually cut off trade from China altogether and bring our jobs home. It is time to give China the big screw and they won’t enjoy it. We know all we need to know about China. They threaten to hold antibiotics from us and blame our military for bringing the virus in. They don’t accept responsibility and never will.

[TexaninVA]

Of course China is lying. That is what communist countries do. Interestingly enough I saw a thread on one of my sites. I wish I had it to share. It basically goes like this. In 2015 a reporter in Europe covered how the Chinese could start a pandemic. The Chinese have been working in labs forever developing viruses. They were warned by the WHO and many countries to quit this practice out of fear that the virus may escape from the lab and put entire countries at risk. So this shouldn’t shock you. The city they had the lab in was Wuhan. So what were they working on? They were combining one of the corona viruses and binding it to bat genes. I don’t find this coincidental. Perhaps the virus escaped a lab or perhaps it was brought out purposefully. I am not a conspiracy type of person. It doesn’t really matter. What is done is done. When this all over I can guarantee a lot of our drugs will no longer come from China and our companies will be producing them in the US. As far as I am concerned we should start gradually cut off trade from China altogether and bring our jobs home. It is time to give China the big screw and they won’t enjoy it. We know all we need to know about China. They threaten to hold antibiotics from us and blame our military for bringing the virus in. They don’t accept responsibility and never will.

I agree with your thinking. After we get out of the crisis, we need to cut the ties with China in essentially every way possible, starting with the medical supplies. Who could have guessed that America First is actually the safest policy for all of us long term? :shocked:

There's also the question of how, and when, should we retaliate against China? Legal, military, diplomatic, etc?? That's on the To Do list once the crisis has been resolved.

[DianeM]

Actually, wipe your (country's) enemies out, where & when possible.

Agreed but you have to lull them into complacency first

[DianeM]

Of course China is lying. That is what communist countries do. Interestingly enough I saw a thread on one of my sites. I wish I had it to share. It basically goes like this. In 2015 a reporter in Europe covered how the Chinese could start a pandemic. The Chinese have been working in labs forever developing viruses. They were warned by the WHO and many countries to quit this practice out of fear that the virus may escape from the lab and put entire countries at risk. So this shouldn’t shock you. The city they had the lab in was Wuhan. So what were they working on? They were combining one of the corona viruses and binding it to bat genes. I don’t find this coincidental. Perhaps the virus escaped a lab or perhaps it was brought out purposefully. I am not a conspiracy type of person. It doesn’t really matter. What is done is done. When this all over I can guarantee a lot of our drugs will no longer come from China and our companies will be producing them in the US. As far as I am concerned we should start gradually cut off trade from China altogether and bring our jobs home. It is time to give China the big screw and they won’t enjoy it. We know all we need to know about China. They threaten to hold antibiotics from us and blame our military for bringing the virus in. They don’t accept responsibility and never will.

Perfectly stated. When this is over, we need to hurt them in their wallet. They unleashed this trash on the world intentionally and need to be made to pay the price. Time to remember we are Americans and can do anything better than any communist manifesto country.

[Two Bills]

I am still sure that Little Green Men from Roswell still played a part in this latest conspiracy theory! :icon_wink:

[TexaninVA]

I am still sure that Little Green Men from Roswell still played a part in this latest conspiracy theory! :icon_wink:

The term ‘conspiracy theory’ is the modern-day version of saying “I’d rather put my head in a dark place and not think about the obvious.” :icon_wink:

[Two Bills]

The term ‘conspiracy theory’ is the modern-day version of saying “I’d rather put my head in a dark place and not think about the obvious.” :icon_wink:

If it is not a theory, then what is it?
I haven't seen any official corroboration of any of the stuff being spouted here.

[TexaninVA]

If it is not a theory, then what is it?
I haven't seen any official corroboration of any of the stuff being spouted here.

That's because you probably not interested in the topic, don't have the background or haven't looked too much into it. Hence your reflexive term of dismissal is "spouted." {express (one's views or ideas) in a lengthy, declamatory, and unreflecting way. :ohdear: }

Another reality is highly delicate matters, there won't be initial official corroboration provided to the publc. Are you serious?

Go back and read the initiating post to this thread. If refers to a report submitted to POTUS by the intel community. Or, maybe I should say spouted?

[Two Bills]

That's because you probably not interested in the topic, don't have the background or haven't looked too much into it. Hence your reflexive term of dismissal is "spouted." {express (one's views or ideas) in a lengthy, declamatory, and unreflecting way. :ohdear: }

Another reality is highly delicate matters, there won't be initial official corroboration provided to the publc. Are you serious?

Go back and read the initiating post to this thread. If refers to a report submitted to POTUS by the intel community. Or, maybe I should say spouted?

I have read the opening report, which the POTUS has denied receiving
It says there is evidence that China was cooking the books regarding the number of virus cases they reported.
Which would be pretty much par for the course.
The bit I am missing in the article is all the information about a deliberate release of the virus, killing their own people, then spreading contagion all round the world.

[TexaninVA]

I have read the opening report, which the POTUS has denied receiving
It says there is evidence that China was cooking the books regarding the number of virus cases they reported.
Which would be pretty much par for the course.
The bit I am missing in the article is all the information about a deliberate release of the virus, killing their own people, then spreading contagion all round the world.

Your first sentence is inaccurate. POTUS actually discussed the content of this report the other day at the daily briefing on national television. He described it as "...the Chinese were a little light on their numbers."

I agree with your "par for the course" but some don't and have essentially said the administration is no better than the CCP types who call the shots in China. That’s a form of civilizational insecurity or even self-hatred, and probably coupled with a severe case of TDS. There are also some naïve souls that essentially discount the possibility of China even lying at all on this topic. That’s more of a wolves vs lambs scenario. But, I digress.

The debate revolves essentially around three options:

1. No bioweapons lab involvement, the CCP is innocent and perhaps even a victim. The virus morphed and unfortunately jumped from bats into humans. (comment: this is the preferred option of the CCP for lots of reasons including minimizing civil liability and/or some type of more forceful response including kinetic)

2. The virus was developed in the Red Chinese military biowarfare labs and either through incompetence or bad luck, made its way out into the Wuhan market and then things took off from there. (comment: this is the option I think most probable. You can search “Brad Johnson Wuhan” to get a former CIA Chief of Station’s view on what amounts to bio-engineering etc. A Rutgers professor of Molecular Biology has also opined the Covid virus may have leaked from the Wuhan biolab. I don’t know if this link will pass muster with Moderator but it’s where I noticed the story so I’m including it.
Molecular Biologist Says COVID-19 Could Have Leaked From Wuhan Biolab | Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/molecular-biologist-says-coronavirus-could-have-leaked-wuhan-biolab)

The cover story here is option #1.

3. The virus was deliberately unleashed by the CCP. This gets into the CCP’s long term (decades or more) strategic planning window for dominance over the West. The thinking here is China was losing the trade wars with the USA by encountering a POTUS that essentially said the gravy train was over, America First etc etc. The CCP concluded re-election was likely and felt they had to do something. Many, if not most, Americans reject this because the tendency is to view this through our ethnocentric lens. “We would never do that therefore they wouldn’t etc” The interesting point here is the absolutely huge cost /benefit tradeoff. Take a couple thousand domestic casualties (probably more like 25,000 vs the several thousand shown in daily reports by country) but the benefit is a literal shutdown of the US economy. It’s like a giant bomb went off in the atmosphere that killed the economy as opposed to people and buildings. The cover story here would be a combination of primarily #1 with a fallback to #2. Keep in mind Mao killed, or caused to die, 40-80M in the quest for the socialist utopia on earth. 25,000 or whatever in this case isn’t even a rounding error.

[GoodLife]

Your first sentence is inaccurate. POTUS actually discussed the content of this report the other day at the daily briefing on national television. He described it as "...the Chinese were a little light on their numbers."

I agree with your "par for the course" but some don't and have essentially said the administration is no better than the CCP types who call the shots in China. That’s a form of civilizational insecurity or even self-hatred, and probably coupled with a severe case of TDS. There are also some naïve souls that essentially discount the possibility of China even lying at all on this topic. That’s more of a wolves vs lambs scenario. But, I digress.

The debate revolves essentially around three options:

1. No bioweapons lab involvement, the CCP is innocent and perhaps even a victim. The virus morphed and unfortunately jumped from bats into humans. (comment: this is the preferred option of the CCP for lots of reasons including minimizing civil liability and/or some type of more forceful response including kinetic)

2. The virus was developed in the Red Chinese military biowarfare labs and either through incompetence or bad luck, made its way out into the Wuhan market and then things took off from there. (comment: this is the option I think most probable. You can search “Brad Johnson Wuhan” to get a former CIA Chief of Station’s view on what amounts to bio-engineering etc. A Rutgers professor of Molecular Biology has also opined the Covid virus may have leaked from the Wuhan biolab. I don’t know if this link will pass muster with Moderator but it’s where I noticed the story so I’m including it.
Molecular Biologist Says COVID-19 Could Have Leaked From Wuhan Biolab | Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/molecular-biologist-says-coronavirus-could-have-leaked-wuhan-biolab)

The cover story here is option #1.

3. The virus was deliberately unleashed by the CCP. This gets into the CCP’s long term (decades or more) strategic planning window for dominance over the West. The thinking here is China was losing the trade wars with the USA by encountering a POTUS that essentially said the gravy train was over, America First etc etc. The CCP concluded re-election was likely and felt they had to do something. Many, if not most, Americans reject this because the tendency is to view this through our ethnocentric lens. “We would never do that therefore they wouldn’t etc” The interesting point here is the absolutely huge cost /benefit tradeoff. Take a couple thousand domestic casualties (probably more like 25,000 vs the several thousand shown in daily reports by country) but the benefit is a literal shutdown of the US economy. It’s like a giant bomb went off in the atmosphere that killed the economy as opposed to people and buildings. The cover story here would be a combination of primarily #1 with a fallback to #2. Keep in mind Mao killed, or caused to die, 40-80M in the quest for the socialist utopia on earth. 25,000 or whatever in this case isn’t even a rounding error.

Very good, I was just thinking about posting same info but procrastinated because it's like talking to rocks here.

Good job

[manaboutown]

Your first sentence is inaccurate. POTUS actually discussed the content of this report the other day at the daily briefing on national television. He described it as "...the Chinese were a little light on their numbers."

I agree with your "par for the course" but some don't and have essentially said the administration is no better than the CCP types who call the shots in China. That’s a form of civilizational insecurity or even self-hatred, and probably coupled with a severe case of TDS. There are also some naïve souls that essentially discount the possibility of China even lying at all on this topic. That’s more of a wolves vs lambs scenario. But, I digress.

The debate revolves essentially around three options:

1. No bioweapons lab involvement, the CCP is innocent and perhaps even a victim. The virus morphed and unfortunately jumped from bats into humans. (comment: this is the preferred option of the CCP for lots of reasons including minimizing civil liability and/or some type of more forceful response including kinetic)

2. The virus was developed in the Red Chinese military biowarfare labs and either through incompetence or bad luck, made its way out into the Wuhan market and then things took off from there. (comment: this is the option I think most probable. You can search “Brad Johnson Wuhan” to get a former CIA Chief of Station’s view on what amounts to bio-engineering etc. A Rutgers professor of Molecular Biology has also opined the Covid virus may have leaked from the Wuhan biolab. I don’t know if this link will pass muster with Moderator but it’s where I noticed the story so I’m including it.
Molecular Biologist Says COVID-19 Could Have Leaked From Wuhan Biolab | Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/molecular-biologist-says-coronavirus-could-have-leaked-wuhan-biolab)

The cover story here is option #1.

3. The virus was deliberately unleashed by the CCP. This gets into the CCP’s long term (decades or more) strategic planning window for dominance over the West. The thinking here is China was losing the trade wars with the USA by encountering a POTUS that essentially said the gravy train was over, America First etc etc. The CCP concluded re-election was likely and felt they had to do something. Many, if not most, Americans reject this because the tendency is to view this through our ethnocentric lens. “We would never do that therefore they wouldn’t etc” The interesting point here is the absolutely huge cost /benefit tradeoff. Take a couple thousand domestic casualties (probably more like 25,000 vs the several thousand shown in daily reports by country) but the benefit is a literal shutdown of the US economy. It’s like a giant bomb went off in the atmosphere that killed the economy as opposed to people and buildings. The cover story here would be a combination of primarily #1 with a fallback to #2. Keep in mind Mao killed, or caused to die, 40-80M in the quest for the socialist utopia on earth. 25,000 or whatever in this case isn’t even a rounding error.

You have summed it up nicely. Thank you!

[DianeM]

Your first sentence is inaccurate. POTUS actually discussed the content of this report the other day at the daily briefing on national television. He described it as "...the Chinese were a little light on their numbers."

I agree with your "par for the course" but some don't and have essentially said the administration is no better than the CCP types who call the shots in China. That’s a form of civilizational insecurity or even self-hatred, and probably coupled with a severe case of TDS. There are also some naïve souls that essentially discount the possibility of China even lying at all on this topic. That’s more of a wolves vs lambs scenario. But, I digress.

The debate revolves essentially around three options:

1. No bioweapons lab involvement, the CCP is innocent and perhaps even a victim. The virus morphed and unfortunately jumped from bats into humans. (comment: this is the preferred option of the CCP for lots of reasons including minimizing civil liability and/or some type of more forceful response including kinetic)

2. The virus was developed in the Red Chinese military biowarfare labs and either through incompetence or bad luck, made its way out into the Wuhan market and then things took off from there. (comment: this is the option I think most probable. You can search “Brad Johnson Wuhan” to get a former CIA Chief of Station’s view on what amounts to bio-engineering etc. A Rutgers professor of Molecular Biology has also opined the Covid virus may have leaked from the Wuhan biolab. I don’t know if this link will pass muster with Moderator but it’s where I noticed the story so I’m including it.
Molecular Biologist Says COVID-19 Could Have Leaked From Wuhan Biolab | Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/molecular-biologist-says-coronavirus-could-have-leaked-wuhan-biolab)

The cover story here is option #1.

3. The virus was deliberately unleashed by the CCP. This gets into the CCP’s long term (decades or more) strategic planning window for dominance over the West. The thinking here is China was losing the trade wars with the USA by encountering a POTUS that essentially said the gravy train was over, America First etc etc. The CCP concluded re-election was likely and felt they had to do something. Many, if not most, Americans reject this because the tendency is to view this through our ethnocentric lens. “We would never do that therefore they wouldn’t etc” The interesting point here is the absolutely huge cost /benefit tradeoff. Take a couple thousand domestic casualties (probably more like 25,000 vs the several thousand shown in daily reports by country) but the benefit is a literal shutdown of the US economy. It’s like a giant bomb went off in the atmosphere that killed the economy as opposed to people and buildings. The cover story here would be a combination of primarily #1 with a fallback to #2. Keep in mind Mao killed, or caused to die, 40-80M in the quest for the socialist utopia on earth. 25,000 or whatever in this case isn’t even a rounding error.


Your offering of alternatives is impressive. Thank you.

[Northwoods]

Ladies and gentlemen. We are all in a very stressful long term unpleasant situation. We can complain and disagree a bit about things but please, leave ALL politics out of it. Lets try to help each other with ideas and not fight.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[Two Bills]

Your first sentence is inaccurate. POTUS actually discussed the content of this report the other day at the daily briefing on national television. He described it as "...the Chinese were a little light on their numbers."

I agree with your "par for the course" but some don't and have essentially said the administration is no better than the CCP types who call the shots in China. That’s a form of civilizational insecurity or even self-hatred, and probably coupled with a severe case of TDS. There are also some naïve souls that essentially discount the possibility of China even lying at all on this topic. That’s more of a wolves vs lambs scenario. But, I digress.

The debate revolves essentially around three options:

1. No bioweapons lab involvement, the CCP is innocent and perhaps even a victim. The virus morphed and unfortunately jumped from bats into humans. (comment: this is the preferred option of the CCP for lots of reasons including minimizing civil liability and/or some type of more forceful response including kinetic)

2. The virus was developed in the Red Chinese military biowarfare labs and either through incompetence or bad luck, made its way out into the Wuhan market and then things took off from there. (comment: this is the option I think most probable. You can search “Brad Johnson Wuhan” to get a former CIA Chief of Station’s view on what amounts to bio-engineering etc. A Rutgers professor of Molecular Biology has also opined the Covid virus may have leaked from the Wuhan biolab. I don’t know if this link will pass muster with Moderator but it’s where I noticed the story so I’m including it.
Molecular Biologist Says COVID-19 Could Have Leaked From Wuhan Biolab | Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/molecular-biologist-says-coronavirus-could-have-leaked-wuhan-biolab)

The cover story here is option #1.

3. The virus was deliberately unleashed by the CCP. This gets into the CCP’s long term (decades or more) strategic planning window for dominance over the West. The thinking here is China was losing the trade wars with the USA by encountering a POTUS that essentially said the gravy train was over, America First etc etc. The CCP concluded re-election was likely and felt they had to do something. Many, if not most, Americans reject this because the tendency is to view this through our ethnocentric lens. “We would never do that therefore they wouldn’t etc” The interesting point here is the absolutely huge cost /benefit tradeoff. Take a couple thousand domestic casualties (probably more like 25,000 vs the several thousand shown in daily reports by country) but the benefit is a literal shutdown of the US economy. It’s like a giant bomb went off in the atmosphere that killed the economy as opposed to people and buildings. The cover story here would be a combination of primarily #1 with a fallback to #2. Keep in mind Mao killed, or caused to die, 40-80M in the quest for the socialist utopia on earth. 25,000 or whatever in this case isn’t even a rounding error.

Plenty of plot there for a ripping yarn.
I will wait for the official report, neutered or otherwise, and leave all the speculation to you three letter professionals.
I was just a lowly member of the PBI, and all this top secret subterfuge theory was way above my pay grade!:)
Stay well.

[bilcon]

Would you believe that North Korea is one of the 10 countries with no cases of the Corona Virus. Oh, I have a 2018 Farrari for sale and I am asking $500.

"I never made a mistake in my life. I thought I did once, but I was wrong."

[TexaninVA]

Would you believe that North Korea is one of the 10 countries with no cases of the Corona Virus. Oh, I have a 2018 Farrari for sale and I am asking $500.

"I never made a mistake in my life. I thought I did once, but I was wrong."

Apparently the North Koreans shoot people who break quarantine. :faint::faint:

This is kind of a yellow-journalism link, but it seems to be accurate from what I can tell.

North Korea deals with coronavirus by EXECUTING patient who ditched quarantine to go to public bath – The Sun (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10958147/north-korea-executes-coronavirus-patient/)

[bumpygreens]

Apparently the North Koreans shoot people who break quarantine. :faint::faint:

This is kind of a yellow-journalism link, but it seems to be accurate from what I can tell.

North Korea deals with coronavirus by EXECUTING patient who ditched quarantine to go to public bath – The Sun (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10958147/north-korea-executes-coronavirus-patient/)

Tex, go to YouTube and watch NTD Televisions report from March 27. 8,500 urns at a single Wuhan mortuary and there are 8 mortuaries in Wuhan. China's under-reporting could be on a magnitude of 15 to 40.

[TexaninVA]

Tex, go to YouTube and watch NTD Televisions report from March 27. 8,500 urns at a single Wuhan mortuary and there are 8 mortuaries in Wuhan. China's under-reporting could be on a magnitude of 15 to 40.

Thanks for posting. I had read some earlier reports on that topic but had not done a deep dive. Will study it further.

[TNGary]

Article worth reading relative to this post, all trails lead back to Wuhan bio lab. Link posted below.

All Trails Lead Back To The Wuhan Bio-Lab | Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/all-trails-lead-back-wuhan-bio-lab)

[Topspinmo]

Of course China is lying. That is what communist countries do. Interestingly enough I saw a thread on one of my sites. I wish I had it to share. It basically goes like this. In 2015 a reporter in Europe covered how the Chinese could start a pandemic. The Chinese have been working in labs forever developing viruses. They were warned by the WHO and many countries to quit this practice out of fear that the virus may escape from the lab and put entire countries at risk. So this shouldn’t shock you. The city they had the lab in was Wuhan. So what were they working on? They were combining one of the corona viruses and binding it to bat genes. I don’t find this coincidental. Perhaps the virus escaped a lab or perhaps it was brought out purposefully. I am not a conspiracy type of person. It doesn’t really matter. What is done is done. When this all over I can guarantee a lot of our drugs will no longer come from China and our companies will be producing them in the US. As far as I am concerned we should start gradually cut off trade from China altogether and bring our jobs home. It is time to give China the big screw and they won’t enjoy it. We know all we need to know about China. They threaten to hold antibiotics from us and blame our military for bringing the virus in. They don’t accept responsibility and never will.

:bigbow::bigbow:

[ALadysMom]

Who gives a crap? Emphasis should be on current and future efforts to stop it.

We should all give more than just “a crap“ since their unreliable, false data was part of the statistical modeling assumptions upon which our “curves” were made.

We are all trying to ‘flatten the curve’ as we are all foregoing our lives and our civil liberties in an effort try to protect our health and the public‘s health based—at least in part—on the Chinese “garbage“ data (The old programming phrase still hold true...Garbage in, garbage out)

Earlier outbreaks, like South Korea’s, had to rely even more on bad data to make decisions, causing unnecessarily more risk to them.

From a strictly humanitarian perspective, we all should “give a crap“ since under-reported data means more (Chinese) human beings have actually died.

Not having reliable data could allow a totalitarian regime to perpetrate hidden human rights atrocities without ever being held to account.

Are you suggesting that we should blindly react to this problem by trying to fix it without even trying to understand its origin & evolution? That would mean our solutions could be ineffective or even dangerous.

[ALadysMom]

I am still sure that Little Green Men from Roswell still played a part in this latest conspiracy theory! :icon_wink:

If you are allowed to make wild assertions then here’s one right back atcha...you are effectively assisting Communist China’s misinformation campaign.

The big difference: China’s conspiracy to promote disinformation isn’t just a theory. And their desire to pit us against each either is well-documented in their own words & publications.

[JimJohnson]

So, I must ask, if we knew how China was downplaying the seriousness of this Virus, WHY did our government come on public TV and continue to make light of this deadly virus? WHY.

[Two Bills]

If you are allowed to make wild assertions then here’s one right back atcha...you are effectively assisting Communist China’s misinformation campaign.

The big difference: China’s conspiracy to promote disinformation isn’t just a theory. And their desire to pit us against each either is well-documented in their own words & publications.

God forbid anyone should make wild assertions on TOTV
I withdraw my statement about 'The little Green Men' Immediately!:shocked:

[jimbomaybe]

Making themselves the epicenter of the COVID19 has hurt them more economically than it will the USA, 21 mil cell phone uses dropped off the grid,you can not function in China without a cell phone. Certainly not all of those have died from COVID19, but it demonstrates the economic fallout, on one hand it will pressure the Chinese to play fair trade wise, but then a weakened China could be more dangerous given its impressive military build out both quantitatively and qualitatively and their aggressive posture in the Pacific . As far as dealing with COVID19 we will not have all the " facts" needed until some time after is all over, all we have now is "informed opinion" waved about in the news media with little fact to be found when you drill down to specifics

[TexaninVA]

If you are allowed to make wild assertions then here’s one right back atcha...you are effectively assisting Communist China’s misinformation campaign.

The big difference: China’s conspiracy to promote disinformation isn’t just a theory. And their desire to pit us against each either is well-documented in their own words & publications.

Speaking of China ...

This is an interesting item with potential connections to Covid-19. Old news in a way, but still pertinent.

The man who supposedly sold useful material to China, Dr Charles Lieber, head of the chemistry and biology department at Harvard was arrested in late January. Among other things the Chinese wanted him to set up a lab at the Wuhan University of Technology.
There are apparently connections with Chinese intelligence. Details are murky, as per usual with intel matters, but more will come out.

This NPR article has a good summary in the meantime.
Why Harvard Professor Charles Lieber Was Arrested : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/806128410/harvard-professors-arrest-raises-questions-about-scientific-openness)

This video from the local news channel of the US Attorney provides insight into the arrest.

Twitter (https://twitter.com/JohnBWellsCTM/status/1246505891911925762)