The "Stay Home Order"

[sdedes]

The “Stay Home” orders are so the spread of the virus can be stopped Don’t be selfish, please STAY HOME!

[billethkid]

Also think about the very brutal consequence if you get the virus or aid in passing it onto someone........

once you are designated to be hospitalized you will no longer be able to see/visit loved ones.

The lady from Winifred who just recently passed away.....with a phone nearby communicating with family....how sad and terrible can that be.....

While hospitalization is not a death sentence.....one does not or will not know until you get released!!!!

Stay home and abide by the guidelines.....wear a mask if and when shopping....DON'T TOUCH YOUR FACE!!!!!!!

[Challenger]

And the Governor exempted Churches. Unfortunate Malfeasence

Email him and demand that he close churches

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

give you name and indicate that you live in TV.

[billethkid]

Political consequence is the top priority!

[bagboy]

Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

[Inexes@aol.com]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand a need for local, state, national orders!!!!! Good Lord, people. We are supposed to be a reasonably intelligent group of adults! How can anyone not want to take action, without someone ordering same, to stay home, stay safe and try to avoid illness or death???? It just baffles me !!!!

[Bogie Shooter]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand a need for local, state, national orders!!!!! Good Lord, people. We are supposed to be a reasonably intelligent group of adults! How can anyone not want to take action, without someone ordering same, to stay home, stay safe and try to avoid illness or death???? It just baffles me !!!!

Simple enough. Look at pictures of Florida beaches before orders were issued.

[sdedes]

Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.
This is not about politics and constitutional rights! It's about caring for your fellow humans and saving lives!

[karostay]

Sad humans have to lead around like dogs on a leash...Due to lack of common sense

[Velvet]

Some are used to it already, their dogs have been leading them on their walks for sometime now.

[JGVillages]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand a need for local, state, national orders!!!!! Good Lord, people. We are supposed to be a reasonably intelligent group of adults! How can anyone not want to take action, without someone ordering same, to stay home, stay safe and try to avoid illness or death???? It just baffles me !!!!

Too many stupid people to rely on “reasonably intelligent”. We all need to comply to keep safe and unfortunately some of our rights will need adjustment because “you can’t fix stupid”.

[junction29]

This is not about politics and constitutional rights! It's about caring for your fellow humans and saving lives!

People who go on about their constitutional rights are totally, but totally missing the point! 👿

These measures are not about YOU, they are to protect everyone and no one, rights or not, has the right to threaten the lives of their fellow citizens. 👿

[bagboy]

This is not about politics and constitutional rights! It's about caring for your fellow humans and saving lives!

As I stated, I disagree with people gathering, but a politician can't disregard the Constitution. I'm as compassionate and caring as alot of people. I'm just not willing to throw our govenor under the bus for not doing what you ask of him, because he cant. And I will add, because I see it coming, we stay home, we protect ourselves and others, we do not have the right to endanger anyone with our actions.

[Challenger]

Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

Their rights must be modified, at least temporarily, when their actions can inflict substantial harm on other members of the society. When these misguided souls leave church , where might they go or work , the grocery store, the pharmacy, a medical facility, an elderly facility. Community spreading. By your reasoning there should be no speeding laws, no laws against DUI, no open burning laws, no laws dealing with "reckless endangerment".

[bagboy]

Their rights must be modified, at least temporarily, when their actions can inflict substantial harm on other members of the society. When these misguided souls leavge church , where might they go or work , the grocery store, the pharmacy, a medical facility, an elderly facility. Community spreading. By your reasoning there should be no speeding laws, no laws against DUI, no open burning laws, no laws dealing with "reckless endangerment".

I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.

[ffresh]

And the Governor exempted Churches. Unfortunate Malfeasence

Email him and demand that he close churches

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

give you name and indicate that you live in TV.

You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred

[Challenger]

You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred
I meant every word that I posted- Check with any of the Main line church groups. Catholic, Methodists, Presbyterian, Lutheran Episcopal , and you will find that their leaders have closed their churches while the Stay at Home orders are in force. Get on you knees , at home , or in your yard and pray to the God that serves you, I will defend that right to my death.

"None are so blind as those who WiLL not see"

[Mikeod]

Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.
There is no constitutional violation if the governor closes churches temporarily. He would not be banning a religion or establishing a state religion. He is using his authority to stop groups of more than a certain number from gathering in order to stop the spread of the virus as much as possible.

There is a current situation in CA where parishioners of a church have an inordinate number of positive virus tests due to assembling for worship and bible study. Who knows how many friends and neighbors they may have infected.

There is another thread on TOTV that describes the loss of a relative and illness of a spouse and nephew due to contracting the virus perhaps from a shopping trip.

It is for the good of all of us to not gather in groups, maintain social distancing, and sanitize ourselves and our environment as much as possible.

[Challenger]

As I stated, I disagree with people gathering, but a politician can't disregard the Constitution. I'm as compassionate and caring as alot of people. I'm just not willing to throw our govenor under the bus for not doing what you ask of him, because he cant. And I will add, because I see it coming, we stay home, we protect ourselves and others, we do not have the right to endanger anyone with our actions.

He most certainly can

[sdedes]

I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.
Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!

[sdedes]

People who go on about their constitutional rights are totally, but totally missing the point! 👿

These measures are not about YOU, they are to protect everyone and no one, rights or not, has the right to threaten the lives of their fellow citizens. 👿
Agreed

[Challenger]

Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

In case you have missed it, a majority of the Governors have already suspended a Constitutional Right . -- Lawful Assembly . They can and should in cases affecting the health and even the life of citizens . Death Toll this noon in US = 8000 and climbing.

[Velvet]

Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!

My understanding is that the Creator does not need a special building for anything in particular. It is people who take comfort from each other. The Creator is quite capable of helping you at home or anywhere else. Right now the only comfort you get from each other is that you can go in mass to the hospital.

[sdedes]

You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred
You can be passionate about your viewpoint without calling people names! Yes, we need all need God right now, but I don't think he will ind if we worship him from HOME for a while.

[Two Bills]

You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred

Your God caused all this if you are a believer, so what the heck are you praying for now?

[Challenger]

You can be passionate about your viewpoint without calling people names! Yes, we need all need God right now, but I don't think he will ind if we worship him from HOME for a while.

I really don't mind being called Atheist, Secular Humanist, or Agnostic. Puts me in the same boat with Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Isaac Asimov, Johannes Brahms, and many millions more. The poster probably meant these terms to be pajorative digs , but I'm sure that his/her God will forgive .

[Inexes@aol.com]

Simple enough. Look at pictures of Florida beaches before orders were issued.

And therein, the problem.... if they were too stupid to stay home prior to the order..... they are most likely not going to obey the order....

[ffresh]

I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.

Bagboy, I agree with your sentiments, however, we part "ways" when you say, "If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them." Rather, IMO, … fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Fred

[Velvet]

“Your God caused all this....” there is a difference between what God causes, and what He allows. That is a teaching. The teaching also says God (I hope you will allow me this reference) is the source of all good. So evil cannot emanate from Him.
But perhaps you know something the rest of us don’t.

[ffresh]

In case you have missed it, a majority of the Governors have already suspended a Constitutional Right . -- Lawful Assembly . They can and should in cases affecting the health and even the life of citizens . Death Toll this noon in US = 8000 and climbing.

NO, you're wrong … only when Marshal Law has been declared - last I heard, it hasn't. And, even then, most Constitutional scholars would argue that declaration to be unconstitutional! Most would argue that Constitutional Rights cannot be suspended - and I would agree most fervently! Even if all 50 governors and POTUS were in alignment with that action, it would not necessarily make it constitutional … whether you believe it keeps you safe or not.

Fred

[ffresh]

There is no constitutional violation if the governor closes churches temporarily. He would not be banning a religion or establishing a state religion. He is using his authority to stop groups of more than a certain number from gathering in order to stop the spread of the virus as much as possible.

There is a current situation in CA where parishioners of a church have an inordinate number of positive virus tests due to assembling for worship and bible study. Who knows how many friends and neighbors they may have infected.

There is another thread on TOTV that describes the loss of a relative and illness of a spouse and nephew due to contracting the virus perhaps from a shopping trip.

It is for the good of all of us to not gather in groups, maintain social distancing, and sanitize ourselves and our environment as much as possible.

Non sequitur … first, you state that the governor closing churches is not a constitutional violation and, from there, proceed to give pragmatic reasons why it should be done. When was the last time you opened a copy of the Florida Constitution:

Article IV, Florida Constitution - Ballotpedia (https://ballotpedia.org/Article_IV,_Florida_Constitution)

Article IV, Florida Constitution Section 1
(d) The governor shall have power to call out the militia to preserve the public peace, execute the laws of the state, suppress insurrection, or repel invasion.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't find anything in there about closing churches or Stay-at-Home orders - good idea or not - recommendations/advisories are far different from ordering any peaceful, law-abiding citizen to remain under house arrest!

Feel free, however, to remain under self-imposed lockdown until this blows over :icon_wink:

Fred

[ffresh]

Originally Posted by junction29
People who go on about their constitutional rights are totally, but totally missing the point! 👿

These measures are not about YOU, they are to protect everyone and no one, rights or not, has the right to threaten the lives of their fellow citizens. 👿


Agreed

People who don't "go on about their Constitutional Rights", I would venture to say are missing the point and, unfortunately, for those of us who do have reverence for the Document, may assist in losing those rights (or many of them) for the rest of us, because of their lack of appreciation for what is entailed! :ohdear:

Fred

[coffeebean]

And therein, the problem.... if they were too stupid to stay home prior to the order..... they are most likely not going to obey the order....

They couldn't even abide by the social distancing. It was shameful behavior from those spring breakers. Foolish kids who were clueless or just didn't care.

[Challenger]

Non sequitur … first, you state that the governor closing churches is not a constitutional violation and, from there, proceed to give pragmatic reasons why it should be done. When was the last time you opened a copy of the Florida Constitution:

Article IV, Florida Constitution - Ballotpedia (https://ballotpedia.org/Article_IV,_Florida_Constitution)

Article IV, Florida Constitution Section 1
(d) The governor shall have power to call out the militia to preserve the public peace, execute the laws of the state, suppress insurrection, or repel invasion.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't find anything in there about closing churches or Stay-at-Home orders - good idea or not - recommendations/advisories are far different from ordering any peaceful, law-abiding citizen to remain under house arrest!

Feel free, however, to remain under self-imposed lockdown until this blows over :icon_wink:

Fred

Supreme Court of the US --Employement Div., v Smith

States can use Police Powers to enforce orders to protect the health and safety of citizens . Such orders can be enforced if they are generally applied and not specically aimed at practices of the specific religious group

[ffresh]

Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!

"morally be modified" Please be kind enough to enlighten me as to what this even means. There is a process in place, I'm sure you realize, to amend the Constitution, although I'm not sure to which you are referring, state or federal. Are we to place arbitrary power in the hands of politicians to "morally" amend the Constitution as he/she sees fit? No thanks, I don't care to live under that type of government any more than I would care to be in a "high-stakes" card game where the rules are "morally modified" by anyone. Even though the "stakes" would be far less punitive :shocked:

Fred

Fred

[JoMar]

Simple enough. Look at pictures of Florida beaches before orders were issued.

Or at our pools

[Polar Bear]

Personally, in a health crisis like this, I think the government has the authority to prohibit gatherings such as at a church without denying anyone their freedom of religion. No constitutional amendment needed.

[DianeM]

The issue is not one of going to church or believing in God. The issue is whether it is morally or ethically appropriate for large groups of people to gather in an enclosed space given the ease this virus exhibits transferring from one to another. Worship is soothing but does not need a building to be achieved. Many religions are doing services on line. Not a bad idea. But as someone else said, you can worship without a service and anywhere.

[bobbiw217@gmail.com]

If you are one of those people who is not taking this virus seriously by staying home I implore you to stop, and think, not of yourself but of others. You may not be worried about getting the virus yourself but you do not realize that until this pandemic is over there are millions of people out there who are not able to get the treatments they need for other life threatening conditions, such as cancer.
It didn’t hit home for me either until a close family member, young in age, was diagnosed with a Stage III, very aggressive, cancer and went to the hospital for a meeting with an oncologist. Immediate treatment was discussed but subsequently canceled as a nurse, who contracted the virus through continued socialization with her friends, exposed my loved one and her doctors. They all had to go into home quarantine for 14 days. Surgery was later performed but further treatment (drug trial by infusion) was cancelled as they were exposed AGAIN, at the hospital, and put into quarantine for another 14 days! The cancer could spread during this time!
People, PLEASE, stop thinking the “Stay at home” orders are unwarranted. If you are healthy you most likely won’t get sick, but if you do you will probably get over it. But If you don’t stay home you are selfishly contributing to the death of many, and not just from the virus. The “Stay Home” orders are so the spread can be stopped, then people who have life threatening conditions can get treatment, and those who are vulnerable don’t get the virus. It’s not just about you. It’s about everyone. “I’m bored at home” means “I, and others, “ARE SAFE”! Don’t be selfish, please STAY HOME!
Same thing happened to me. So sorry for you. Best advice to give anyone is to stay at home if you really love someone. Don't be sorry later.

[JoMar]

As I understand the orders in other states as well as Florida the stay at home orders are not literal and you can go out to exercise, grocery and other shopping, medical and a few other things. The focus is on social distancing, hand washing and disinfecting. If the Churches can comply then I assume they will be open but evidently the Churches here (and other areas) in The Villages don't believe they can and have stopped services to protect their parishioners. If you don't fear this virus that's ok then do what makes you happy, just don't infringe on my space because I do fear this virus. If you think you know more than the CDC, Governors, Health organizations then follow your belief but don't infringe on my space because I do believe they know more than I do. Help keep me and others alive.

[billethkid]

It is really very simple.
Some very savvy medical people from around the world have come up with guidelines that have been deemed to keep you and others around you safe(r).

Setting race, religion or what ever other distraction one wants to argue about aside.

Can you do what you used to do or would like to do before the order and comply? No? Then no matter who or what you are or where.......to keep yourself and those around you safe..DO NOT DO IT OR PARTICIPATE.

Factor out the religious, political, special interest bias....help yourself and others get through this.

Argue Later!

[bagboy]

Bagboy, I agree with your sentiments, however, we part "ways" when you say, "If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them." Rather, IMO, … fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Fred

Fred,
As I've tried to make clear, I do not think the govenor should or can close churches. When I first saw the Tampa church open, disregarding the health and well being of their congregation, I thought it disgusting. Churches and church goers need to heed the call and stay home. BUT, and for all the posters who want to quote the Florida Constitution, and think that just because it or the US Constitution doesn't fit their morality, we don't have to abide by what's in it. I'm saying that just isn't so.
On the internet, some or most meanings of what people write can and most often is grossly misinterpreted. I'm in agreement with almost 100% of the sentiments in this thread. And maybe we can legally disregard the Constitution. Though I doubt seriously what is being called at Florida constitution can do that.
My saying close them if you wish is me throwing up my hands and saying "enough". Not interested in arguing about this, especially since I'm trying to agree with most.

[Velvet]

I will not be surprised if/when a person attending a religious service dies due to catching the virus there, that institution or its representatives will be prosecuted for murder.

[Challenger]

I will not be surprised if/when a person attending a religious service dies due to catching the virus there, that institution or its representatives will be prosecuted for murder.

Not unless the Governor of Florida invokes a Closure order including church services. If the Governor would , in fact, include churches in his order, the path might be opened for civil suits against non compliant groups.

[mneumann02]

You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred

Sorry Fred, but you are not only so wrong, your view puts people at risk of getting ill and dying. By going to church with dozens or hundreds of others, not puts just your fellow worshippers at risk, it puts everyone at risk who subsequently comes into contact with them, and those who come into contact with those people, and so on. As a Christian, maybe one of the judgement day questions is, "Did you, in trying to honor Me by attending church during the coronavirus epidemic, cause others to get sick or die?" This is not about if loving God He will protect you, it is about science and contagious diseases.

[sdedes]

Non sequitur … first, you state that the governor closing churches is not a constitutional violation and, from there, proceed to give pragmatic reasons why it should be done. When was the last time you opened a copy of the Florida Constitution:

Article IV, Florida Constitution - Ballotpedia (https://ballotpedia.org/Article_IV,_Florida_Constitution)

Article IV, Florida Constitution Section 1
(d) The governor shall have power to call out the militia to preserve the public peace, execute the laws of the state, suppress insurrection, or repel invasion.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't find anything in there about closing churches or Stay-at-Home orders - good idea or not - recommendations/advisories are far different from ordering any peaceful, law-abiding citizen to remain under house arrest!

Feel free, however, to remain under self-imposed lockdown until this blows over :icon_wink:

Fred
It's people like you, with your "entitled" attitude, who are causing the continued spread of this virus and the deaths of many.

[sdedes]

"morally be modified" Please be kind enough to enlighten me as to what this even means. There is a process in place, I'm sure you realize, to amend the Constitution, although I'm not sure to which you are referring, state or federal. Are we to place arbitrary power in the hands of politicians to "morally" amend the Constitution as he/she sees fit? No thanks, I don't care to live under that type of government any more than I would care to be in a "high-stakes" card game where the rules are "morally modified" by anyone. Even though the "stakes" would be far less punitive :shocked:

Fred

Fred
You don't appear to have any empathy or compassion for your fellow human beings Fred. That is sad. I hope if anyone knows who you really are they will stay away from you because they will probably catch the virus.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

Shutting down churches is not a freeze ban or pause on freedom of religion. You can pray to your chosen deity at home, in your back yard, online at a streaming church service conducted by the pastor, who is in isolation at the church itself. You can go to a park bench and worship your chosen deity there. You can worship your chosen deity while in your car - stationary or driving.

There is nothing about a church that facilitates your ability - or inability - to worship your chosen deity. It's function is to provide a building for people to congregate and worship together.

It's the congregating part that's the problem, during an epidemic. Not the worshiping. Go, worship. You have my blessings. If your deity is anything like the traditional biblical christian god, then your deity already knows what you want, what you're thankful for, and that you are devoted to it.

If you need a congregation and a building with all the trappings in order to worship, I would sincerely suggest you look into the opportunity to worship a more understanding, generous, loving, and humane deity.

[ffresh]

Sorry Fred, but you are not only so wrong, your view puts people at risk of getting ill and dying. By going to church with dozens or hundreds of others, not puts just your fellow worshippers at risk, it puts everyone at risk who subsequently comes into contact with them, and those who come into contact with those people, and so on. As a Christian, maybe one of the judgement day questions is, "Did you, in trying to honor Me by attending church during the coronavirus epidemic, cause others to get sick or die?" This is not about if loving God He will protect you, it is about science and contagious diseases.

NO, sorry but my viewpoint puts no one at risk. I am not ordering people to go to church or do anything else to their potential peril; that is the call for the individual to make, not me. On the other hand, I am not clamoring for the STATE to quash all civil liberties and FORCE people to comply with what I feel they should do. I am not calling for people to "write to the governor and demand he close the churches", ad nauseum. People who are very afraid of the current situation can, as I suggested in another post, remain in lockdown until this passes, order in all of your meals, and you'll probably be safe from Corona. But let others, including myself, go about our business, perhaps, at our own peril, just as we do every day, Corona or not. That's our/my choice to make and I don't want you to make it for me (or call the governor and say, "did you see what Fred is doing"). :shocked:

Fred

[ffresh]

It's people like you, with your "entitled" attitude, who are causing the continued spread of this virus and the deaths of many.

REALLY … how so? Now I'm responsible for the "deaths of many". GET A GRIP; your fear is causing you to lose all perspective.

Entitled … I'm only shocked that you didn't call me a racist. I know you meant to use the term in the most pejorative sense but, analytically speaking, I do suppose that I feel entitled - to my Constitutional Rights.

And, to be frank, it's people such as yourself who can TRULY be counted among the clueless.

Fred

[Challenger]

NO, sorry but my viewpoint puts no one at risk. I am not ordering people to go to church or do anything else to their potential peril; that is the call for the individual to make, not me. On the other hand, I am not clamoring for the STATE to quash all civil liberties and FORCE people to comply with what I feel they should do. I am not calling for people to "write to the governor and demand he close the churches", ad nauseum. People who are very afraid of the current situation can, as I suggested in another post, remain in lockdown until this passes, order in all of your meals, and you'll probably be safe from Corona. But let others, including myself, go about our business, perhaps, at our own peril, just as we do every day, Corona or not. That's our/my choice to make and I don't want you to make it for me (or call the governor and say, "did you see what Fred is doing"). :shocked:

Fred

"Ad Nauseum" here. To all who care , please email the Governor's office and ask that he include churches in his "temporary" closure order.

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

[ffresh]

Agreed

"Ad Nauseum" here. To all who care , please email the Governor's office and ask that he include churches in his "temporary" closure order.

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

Ahhh you got me there, Challenger, you da man! You got the last word

Churches must touch a nerve, huh?

Fred

[Challenger]

Ahhh you got me there, Challenger, you da man! You got the last word

Churches must touch a nerve, huh?

Fred

Only fundamentalist charlatans . Pastors should "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil" Leading us into arrogant disregard for the health and safety of the community , does touch a nerve. and does not honor the admonition of Christ in the prayer that he allegedly gave his followers.

Thanks for asking

[sdedes]

NO, sorry but my viewpoint puts no one at risk. I am not ordering people to go to church or do anything else to their potential peril; that is the call for the individual to make, not me. On the other hand, I am not clamoring for the STATE to quash all civil liberties and FORCE people to comply with what I feel they should do. I am not calling for people to "write to the governor and demand he close the churches", ad nauseum. People who are very afraid of the current situation can, as I suggested in another post, remain in lockdown until this passes, order in all of your meals, and you'll probably be safe from Corona. But let others, including myself, go about our business, perhaps, at our own peril, just as we do every day, Corona or not. That's our/my choice to make and I don't want you to make it for me (or call the governor and say, "did you see what Fred is doing"). :shocked:

Fred
You are so misguided Fred. The Constitution be damned at this point. We all need to do our part for the greater good. Not just in our community, or our country, but the world. This pandemic will not "pass" while people like you chose to be selfish and not help stop the spread. Oh but wait, I forgot, it's about YOU and what YOU want. Who cares about anyone else.

[Mikeod]

NO, sorry but my viewpoint puts no one at risk. I am not ordering people to go to church or do anything else to their potential peril; that is the call for the individual to make, not me. On the other hand, I am not clamoring for the STATE to quash all civil liberties and FORCE people to comply with what I feel they should do. I am not calling for people to "write to the governor and demand he close the churches", ad nauseum. People who are very afraid of the current situation can, as I suggested in another post, remain in lockdown until this passes, order in all of your meals, and you'll probably be safe from Corona. But let others, including myself, go about our business, perhaps, at our own peril, [/B]just as we do every day, Corona or not. That's our/my choice to make and I don't want you to make it for me (or call the governor and say, "did you see what Fred is doing"). :shocked:

Fred

Therein lies your misconception. Unless you are completely isolated from any human contact, your desire to continue your normal activities puts not only yourself (which is certainly your prerogative), but puts any person you have any contact with directly or indirectly at risk, which is definitely not your prerogative.

[DianeM]

NO, sorry but my viewpoint puts no one at risk. I am not ordering people to go to church or do anything else to their potential peril; that is the call for the individual to make, not me. On the other hand, I am not clamoring for the STATE to quash all civil liberties and FORCE people to comply with what I feel they should do. I am not calling for people to "write to the governor and demand he close the churches", ad nauseum. People who are very afraid of the current situation can, as I suggested in another post, remain in lockdown until this passes, order in all of your meals, and you'll probably be safe from Corona. But let others, including myself, go about our business, perhaps, at our own peril, just as we do every day, Corona or not. That's our/my choice to make and I don't want you to make it for me (or call the governor and say, "did you see what Fred is doing"). :shocked:

Fred

How do you not get that each of our individual actions can affect someone else in a negative way. Most who live here are in the older category that can be most susceptible to whatever is floating around. You do not have the right to thumb your nose at conventional wisdom and experience. Talk about nasty entitled Villager. Wow!

[ffresh]

You are so misguided Fred. The Constitution be damned at this point. We all need to do our part for the greater good. Not just in our community, or our country, but the world. This pandemic will not "pass" while people like you chose to be selfish and not help stop the spread. Oh but wait, I forgot, it's about YOU and what YOU want. Who cares about anyone else.

First, let me say that I am always amused by folks, such as yourself, who levy ad hominem attacks against others who disagree with their opinions. Likewise, attributing traits, such as selfish, to someone whom you never met or talked to is presumptuous, at the very least. Now, having stated the glaringly obvious, allow me to state the following:

If a spark was lit in the mind of someone who read something I have written over the last couple of days, then, it was not wasted time on my part. If you actually read everything I've posted over the last few days, without allowing your own narrow-mindedness and debilitating prejudices from overwhelming your ability to read for comprehension, you would see that nowhere did I demand anyone to do anything against his will or good common sense. You are the one who is consumed with fear, to the extent that your discernment is compromised. I am not on this forum to convince anyone to do or not do anything in particular. I have merely attempted, in good faith, to caution against casting aside Constitutional safeguards, while clamoring for government to tell you what to do or not to do; perhaps you should, however! As Benjamin Franklin so wisely cautioned us:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

My cause was not to pontificate but to resurrect that wise admonition.

For anyone who may have been somehow convinced of that cause, I say GOOD. For anyone else who has remained intransigent toward that end, I say CARRY ON. I never try to convince steadfast believers about anything - life is too short. And, God willing I still will have one to live. I'm through with this thread. :spoken:

Fred

[Tsego58]

I know god hears our prayers. Do you believe he needs you to draw a crowd. Most likely if a minister is guided by God's hand he will go to the hospital not the church and give guidance in this time of need. God places professionals in place on the earth to help us. CDC says no social gathering. The minister should be preaching about that through a news letter to your home. Ministers and churches cannot heal you but can help other professionals that can. Has the church thought of giving money or time to making mask, or ventilators, or setting up space for hospital patients. I see beautiful churches all around me. Not a social event..........

[mneumann02]

NO, sorry but my viewpoint puts no one at risk. I am not ordering people to go to church or do anything else to their potential peril; that is the call for the individual to make, not me. On the other hand, I am not clamoring for the STATE to quash all civil liberties and FORCE people to comply with what I feel they should do. I am not calling for people to "write to the governor and demand he close the churches", ad nauseum. People who are very afraid of the current situation can, as I suggested in another post, remain in lockdown until this passes, order in all of your meals, and you'll probably be safe from Corona. But let others, including myself, go about our business, perhaps, at our own peril, just as we do every day, Corona or not. That's our/my choice to make and I don't want you to make it for me (or call the governor and say, "did you see what Fred is doing"). :shocked:

Fred
If you think you have the "right" to put yourself and those around you at risk of illness and death by ignoring social distancing, do the rest of us have the "right" to know who you are, your church, and other members of your congregation so we can stay away from all of you?

[sdedes]

First, let me say that I am always amused by folks, such as yourself, who levy ad hominem attacks against others who disagree with their opinions. Likewise, attributing traits, such as selfish, to someone whom you never met or talked to is presumptuous, at the very least. Now, having stated the glaringly obvious, allow me to state the following:

If a spark was lit in the mind of someone who read something I have written over the last couple of days, then, it was not wasted time on my part. If you actually read everything I've posted over the last few days, without allowing your own narrow-mindedness and debilitating prejudices from overwhelming your ability to read for comprehension, you would see that nowhere did I demand anyone to do anything against his will or good common sense. You are the one who is consumed with fear, to the extent that your discernment is compromised. I am not on this forum to convince anyone to do or not do anything in particular. I have merely attempted, in good faith, to caution against casting aside Constitutional safeguards, while clamoring for government to tell you what to do or not to do; perhaps you should, however! As Benjamin Franklin so wisely cautioned us:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

My cause was not to pontificate but to resurrect that wise admonition.

For anyone who may have been somehow convinced of that cause, I say GOOD. For anyone else who has remained intransigent toward that end, I say CARRY ON. I never try to convince steadfast believers about anything - life is too short. And, God willing I still will have one to live. I'm through with this thread. :spoken:

Fred
We are not giving up our liberties to pursue "a little temporary safety", you idiot. We're talking about LIFE and DEATH here. You're the one who doesn't get it. No one cares about the Constitution right now except selfish minded people like you. You don't get the fact that it's people like you who have caused our "rights" to be taken away to begin with, because you won't stay home and help stop the spread so we can get things back to normal.

[JoMar]

If you think you have the "right" to put yourself and those around you at risk of illness and death by ignoring social distancing, do the rest of us have the "right" to know who you are, your church, and other members of your congregation so we can stay away from all of you?

Fred is ok with endangering others, but he has the right to hide behind the anonymity these blogs provide. He has stated he can go about his business without concern for anyone else......he's not alone, there are others with the same ignorant and selfish attitudes on here....if we all observe social distancing and do what we can to encourage others Fred and the like will become a non-factor. He can pontificate, get on his soap box, spew his opinion....that is his right, but we have the ability to marginalize him. Do what's right.....then ignore Fred.