When this is over, what will change?

[Chatbrat]

I believe the country will change profoundly, the way the country changed after the "great Depression", people will learn how to save, and get priorities

anyone care to add to the list

1) people will move out of the big cities
2)people will learn how to save

[LiverpoolWalrus]

For white collar and office workers, working from home will become the rule rather than the exception.

Handshaking will become less common.

Hand sanitizer will be absolutely everywhere. Maybe a good time to buy their stocks?

We’ll be much better prepared for another outbreak in the same way 9/11 catalyzed improvements in homeland security.

[tophcfa]

Less international travel, domestic vacations, given an option choose to drive versus fly, no cruise ship vacations. Empty seats at large gatherings such as sporting events and concerts.

[kcrazorbackfan]

I see in the 6 months after the pandemic is over, younger people (the “me first” generation) will become more complacent and start letting their guard down; millennials and older generations will let this change their lives and habits.

[karostay]

Villagers will resume being Villagers..Not that anything has changed yet..Their like the Velcro dog scraping at the door waiting to be let loose

[DianeM]

We will no longer shake hands
We have learned we don’t need most people so distancing will be common
Work and school will be from home

[twoplanekid]

1. For those that travel, there will be health checks at airports and before boarding cruise ships.
2. The hand shake/physical contact will be replaced by some other form of greeting.
3. There will be more limits/checks placed on those over 60.
4. Easy access to hospitals, nursing homes and doctor offices will change.

[MACH7SS]

Other than a few minor things like shaking hands and hugging at group gatherings, I sincerely doubt anything will change permanently. At first people will be cautious but complacency will eventually dull their concerns. After six months to a year, the Corona Virus will be history. And if they test and approve a vaccine before then, the whole time frame will shorten dramatically. I just checked the US death toll today and it shows a total of 9171 fatalities. The US death toll of the H1N1 pandemic in 2009 was over 12,000 in an equally short time. Do you see any huge changes in the US after the H1N1?

[retiredguy123]

If you are young enough and you ever wanted to start a business, now is the time. I think that many small businesses that are closed, will never reopen.

[Two Bills]

Within one year it will be business as usual, and in two years, "What Virus?"

[BS Beef]

Other than a few minor things like shaking hands and hugging at group gatherings, I sincerely doubt anything will change permanently. At first people will be cautious but complacency will eventually dull their concerns. After six months to a year, the Corona Virus will be history. And if they test and approve a vaccine before then, the whole time frame will shorten dramatically. I just checked the US death toll today and it shows a total of 9171 fatalities. The US death toll of the H1N1 pandemic in 2009 was over 12,000 in an equally short time. Do you see any huge changes in the US after the H1N1?
I agree with this. However H1N1 didn’t have the same huge reaction from federal and state governments. For the record I’m not saying I agree or disagree with this government intervention just stating a fact.

[twoplanekid]

Within one year it will be business as usual, and in two years, "What Virus?"

If we look at the changes that were made after 9/11 and then look at this virus event which is of greater magnitude, changes are a coming like it or not.

[MACH7SS]

My point precisely but I did my best to keep my original post non-political. H1N1 was horrible as well, perhaps even worse.

"Additionally, CDC estimated that 151,700-575,400 people worldwide died from (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first year the virus circulated.** Globally, 80 percent of (H1N1)pdm09 virus-related deaths were estimated to have occurred in people younger than 65 years of age. This differs greatly from typical seasonal influenza epidemics, during which about 70 percent to 90 percent of deaths are estimated to occur in people 65 years and older."

2009 H1N1 Pandemic (H1N1pdm09 virus) | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html)

[MACH7SS]

Agreed.

[jacksonbrown]

Never again should China and the WHO be trusted on anything.

In March, the FBI conducted a record number of background checks on gun buyers. Even the dimmest citizen now knows that governments cannot protect you from harm. You must protect yourself, and that includes financially. Stop spending money you don’t have.

Finally, government-run health care is a virus victim. Many countries in Europe that have socialized medicine are running death rates ten times higher than the USA.

Again, you need to protect yourself. You have to develop a skill the marketplace needs. Companies and unions will not provide you with economic security. Profit will continue to rule in post-pandemic America.

from here (https://www.billoreilly.com/b/The-Winds-of-Change/-356953464388738683.html)

[blueash]

Whatever else may happen, this should be a teaching moment of the risk of having your health insurance tied to your place of employment. When suddenly 30% of the work force loses their job, they will also lose their own and possibly their family's coverage. While the top few % can afford to pay for their own coverage, the many cannot.

Job loss does qualify a person to apply for coverage via the ACA [Obamacare] but this requires out of pocket payment and a large number of low wage earners do not qualify as when the law was written it was believed that those low earners would qualify for state Medicaid benefits.

To avoid being erased for political comments, I will avoid making any suggestion. But I do think that the pandemic illustrates a major downside of losing insurance at the same time as losing employment.

By the way, under the ACA you can buy coverage to begin the first day of the month AFTER your insurance ends. If your job loss is on April 3rd, fairly reasonable date in this environment; no ACA coverage, if I read the rules correctly, until May 1. Try hard not to get sick in April. A request to open the option to enroll earlier was turned down by the Federal Gov. And of course the Supreme Court has on its docket an appeal designed to completely end the ACA, to be heard after the November election. With no ACA, these unemployed low and moderately paid Americans would have no affordable market.

I foresee a push to change in how we provide health care coverage to our citizens.

[EnglishJW]

I believe the country will change profoundly, the way the country changed after the "great Depression", people will learn how to save, and get priorities

anyone care to add to the list

1) people will move out of the big cities
2)people will learn how to save

I thought about this a bit before replying. I was in Manhattan when 9/11 happened. There was indeed a profound effect on everyone. People were friendlier and more helpful. They became considerate and considered other people in addition to themselves. That lasted for a year or so. "People" than basically reverted back to what they had been before 9/11. On the other hand, there were substantial and long lasting changes. These included all the stuff we now take for granted like airport security, more complex ID checks, etc.

I expect the coronavirus of 2020 to be similar. Initially, there will be profound changes to us as people. I doubt if these changes will be long lasting. Externally, there are likely to be more permanent changes including: greater numbers of people working from home; a sincere drive to buy American; a contraction of international tourism in general and cruising in particular; and modified expectations regarding physical contact (e.g., fewer handshakes). I suspect there will be changes to how religious services will take place. But I do not expect any fundamental changes to sports, music or movies.

Having given my opinion, I would also like to share my hope. We now collectively have a much better understanding of contagion and the importance of simple things like washing our hands. Maybe these lessons can take root and we can greatly reduce other deadly events like the annual flu.

[RedChariot]

Nothing will change here, sadly. Crowds will continue, 70 year old women will still belly dance in public and twirl their batons attempting to recapture their youth. Age appropriate is not present in TV. The bars will be 3 deep in season and no one will remember. Publix Colony will remain a nightmare. And we will return to the restaurants not delivering. The one positive of this stay at home is that the restaurants are bending over backwards to get your business.
Stay well and wear a mask!

[Kenswing]

Unless this becomes a seasonal bug NOTHING will change..

[coffeebean]

Let's hope with a successful vaccine and treatment therapy, things will go back to the normal we all know as normal.

[Challenger]

In some form Universal Health Care will become a reality>

[Paper1]

I see in the 6 months after the pandemic is over, younger people (the “me first” generation) will become more complacent and start letting their guard down; millennials and older generations will let this change their lives and habits.

I disagree with your "me first generation" reference at the same time we are burying our children and grandchildren in debt with our social security, pensions, and medical care that we feel is our just due. We will have to agree to disagree as to who is the real "me first" generation is.

[DeanFL]

I think the 'Western' culture of handshaking should be discouraged (or banned)...history>


Handshakes: Then and now
With origins dating back to ancient Greece, handshaking is believed to have originated to prove participants were not holding weapons (the shaking may have been a way to loosen daggers hidden inside clothing.) A funeral stone in Berlin’s Pergamom museum from 5th century B.C. shows two soldiers clasping hands.

Even then, handshakes were likely a formalization of a pact between two parties. Homer references handshakes in both “The Odyssey” and “The Iliad,” usually as a display of trust.

I vote for:

Namaste
It's a Sanskrit phrase that means "I bow to you." You place hands together at the heart, close your eyes and bow. It is good manners to say namaste to the elders. It was the equivalent of hello, but with an element of respect.

Or, if holding a briefcase or such, eye contact and a slight bow or 'head bow'.

NO CONTACT, but a warm personal greeting.

[Two Bills]

Being a grumpy old git by nature, I hope social distancing continues, and lockdown becomes a feature of daily life.
All golf courses will be floodlit and open 24 hours a day, and maintained as a truly essential service.
Scooter the DJ will be declared a Bio hazard and only allowed at Town Squares south of 44.
OH! and all dogs will have to wear diapers, when out walking!

[patfla06]

Everyone will always have a stockpile of t.p.

[billethkid]

Hopefully residents of TV will learn....have learned to not wait until the emergency is upon us to take action.

Hurricane season will soon be upon us.

Having a 2-4 weeks food supply should already be a way of life due to coronavirus actions.

There is no reason to deplete the the 2-4 weeks food supply currently on hand.

Water. If you don't have it now get a 2 weeks supply of water in some form......NOW!

Keep your gas tank full as a matter of practice.

Coronavirus could become seasonal. Don't get unprepared.

Unfortunately after living here for 16 years.....I can safely say nothing will change.

[TexaninVA]

I believe the country will change profoundly, the way the country changed after the "great Depression", people will learn how to save, and get priorities

anyone care to add to the list

1) people will move out of the big cities
2)people will learn how to save

A significant number of people in our age bracket will no longer be taking cruises.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

I think you’re right about cruises. I feel bad for people in those jobs.

Salad bars and buffets will disappear. Or perhaps a server will place what we want on our plate for us. I believe that’s how it used to be done. Serving tongs are nasty.

[DianeM]

I disagree with your "me first generation" reference at the same time we are burying our children and grandchildren in debt with our social security, pensions, and medical care that we feel is our just due. We will have to agree to disagree as to who is the real "me first" generation is.

Every person receiving SS paid into it. I also paid into my pensions. These are not entitlements. Medicare is not free. I pay for it every month as well as a deductible when I go to a doctor. The kids are in debt for useless college degrees that we have forced upon then. Better to be a plumber than major in Art History and make coffee at Starbucks.

[Doro22]

I really hesitate to even post an opinion here. But ...here I go. How about these people who insist on all this hugging?!?!? It amazes me. I attend a particular workout session here in The V. and have been appalled & amazed that several ladies hug and rock back and forth and make a big “show” of hugging each other. This was as recent as early March before the Rec centers shut down. They see each other 2 or 3 times a week, yet the hugging and body rocking continued to take place. It’s apparent that they only see each other at these workout sessions. I hug my children, grandchildren and other close family members after not seeing them for weeks or months. But acquaintances...not so much.

[DianeM]

I think the 'Western' culture of handshaking should be discouraged (or banned)...history>


Handshakes: Then and now
With origins dating back to ancient Greece, handshaking is believed to have originated to prove participants were not holding weapons (the shaking may have been a way to loosen daggers hidden inside clothing.) A funeral stone in Berlin’s Pergamom museum from 5th century B.C. shows two soldiers clasping hands.

Even then, handshakes were likely a formalization of a pact between two parties. Homer references handshakes in both “The Odyssey” and “The Iliad,” usually as a display of trust.

I vote for:

Namaste
It's a Sanskrit phrase that means "I bow to you." You place hands together at the heart, close your eyes and bow. It is good manners to say namaste to the elders. It was the equivalent of hello, but with an element of respect.

Or, if holding a briefcase or such, eye contact and a slight bow or 'head bow'.

NO CONTACT, but a warm personal greeting.


I bow to no one except God.

[Paper1]

Every person receiving SS paid into it. I also paid into my pensions. These are not entitlements. Medicare is not free. I pay for it every month as well as a deductible when I go to a doctor. The kids are in debt for useless college degrees that we have forced upon then. Better to be a plumber than major in Art History and make coffee at Starbucks.

Most people ignore the fact we didn't pay in for ourselves we were paying in to support our parents and grandparents, it is a pay as you go system that did indeed collect more than they were paying out so now we have this imaginary trust fund. The fact is more has been promised than our grandchildren can pay for. This is not a political statement but a fact whatever your political persuasion is. That said I do very much agree with you about cost and value of many college degrees.

[DianeM]

Whatever else may happen, this should be a teaching moment of the risk of having your health insurance tied to your place of employment. When suddenly 30% of the work force loses their job, they will also lose their own and possibly their family's coverage. While the top few % can afford to pay for their own coverage, the many cannot.

Job loss does qualify a person to apply for coverage via the ACA [Obamacare] but this requires out of pocket payment and a large number of low wage earners do not qualify as when the law was written it was believed that those low earners would qualify for state Medicaid benefits.

To avoid being erased for political comments, I will avoid making any suggestion. But I do think that the pandemic illustrates a major downside of losing insurance at the same time as losing employment.

By the way, under the ACA you can buy coverage to begin the first day of the month AFTER your insurance ends. If your job loss is on April 3rd, fairly reasonable date in this environment; no ACA coverage, if I read the rules correctly, until May 1. Try hard not to get sick in April. A request to open the option to enroll earlier was turned down by the Federal Gov. And of course the Supreme Court has on its docket an appeal designed to completely end the ACA, to be heard after the November election. With no ACA, these unemployed low and moderately paid Americans would have no affordable market.

I foresee a push to change in how we provide health care coverage to our citizens.


Every single insurance company has said they will cover for COVID treatment anyone who lost their coverage over the current layoffs as well as waiving copays for COVID treatment.

Socialized medicine sucks big time. Why do you think Canadians cross over for treatment. My niece lives in Italy and part of the reason so many died is because the average wait for a doctor appt. is weeks.

The ACA is way too expensive for folks out of work. It was the “you must buy mandate” that people resented. I know. I was one who refused to buy just because I was told I had to.

[kpd3062]

I hope things return to normal. I don’t want to live in a world where I’m afraid to socialize, shake hands, hug, etc. I grew up with a father who wasn’t comfortable with hugging (probably learned from his parents). I married into a family of “Huggers”. I learned to love it and feel sorry for those who aren’t comfortable with it. I respect their wishes but they are missing out in my opinion. My dad became more comfortable with showing affection in his later years which I’m grateful for. So when this is over I will be back to hugging.

[DianeM]

Most people ignore the fact we didn't pay in for ourselves we were paying in to support our parents and grandparents, it is a pay as you go system that did indeed collect more than they were paying out so now we have this imaginary trust fund. The fact is more has been promised than our grandchildren can pay for. This is not a political statement but a fact whatever your political persuasion is. That said I do very much agree with you about cost and value of many college degrees.

I will give you volume of recipients has grown

[DianeM]

I hope things return to normal. I don’t want to live in a world where I’m afraid to socialize, shake hands, hug, etc. I grew up with a father who wasn’t comfortable with hugging (probably learned from his parents). I married into a family of “Huggers”. I learned to love it and feel sorry for those who aren’t comfortable with it. I respect their wishes but they are missing out in my opinion. My dad became more comfortable with showing affection in his later years which I’m grateful for. So when this is over I will be back to hugging.


For family it’s fine but if I only know you casually, please don’t hug me.

[coffeebean]

A significant number of people in our age bracket will no longer be taking cruises.

Hubby and I were just discussing this at dinner this evening. We are frequent cruisers but will probably hold off cruising for at least a year. Sad but true.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Far fewer people will aspire to be EMTs, Nurses, and other health care professionals.

[Rebel Pirate]

Regarding the business climate: I predict many, MANY small (brick & mortar) business will close their doors; some large brick & mortar business that have not been financially healthy will see their demise come sooner rather than later; online business will continue to BOOM. When people who have never before shopped online have 2-3 months or more experience with online shopping, those business will continue to grow.

[npwalters]

I believe the country will change profoundly, the way the country changed after the "great Depression", people will learn how to save, and get priorities

anyone care to add to the list

1) people will move out of the big cities
2)people will learn how to save

People will be more willing to let the government run their lives. Sad.

[Rebel Pirate]

Every person receiving SS paid into it. I also paid into my pensions. These are not entitlements. Medicare is not free. I pay for it every month as well as a deductible when I go to a doctor. The kids are in debt for useless college degrees that we have forced upon then. Better to be a plumber than major in Art History and make coffee at Starbucks.

I adopt a slightly different turn of phrase regarding social security and medicare. By government definition, they are entitlements. I think you are arguing they are earned entitlements because you have already paid for them.

But, it's important for the federal budget to distinguish between entitlements (mandatory spending) and non-entitlements, which is discretionary spending in the budget.

[DianeM]

I adopt a slightly different turn of phrase regarding social security and medicare. By government definition, they are entitlements. I think you are arguing they are earned entitlements because you have already paid for them.

But, it's important for the federal budget to distinguish between entitlements (mandatory spending) and non-entitlements, which is discretionary spending in the budget.


Well...I look upon it as “you took my money for many years for those before us with the promise to do the same for us as we grew older. Time to pay the piper and that makes it mandatory for me”.

[Paper1]

Well...I look upon it as “you took my money for many years for those before us with the promise to do the same for us as we grew older. Time to pay the piper and that makes it mandatory for me”.

You really should tell that to your children and grandchildren not this forum

[Bay Kid]

We will start to BUY and DEMAND AMERICAN made products. We will learn to help our neighbors. Teach our children how take care of themselves. We will for sure enjoy the outdoors!

[Rebel Pirate]

Well...I look upon it as “you took my money for many years for those before us with the promise to do the same for us as we grew older. Time to pay the piper and that makes it mandatory for me”.

Once we started down that road (Social Security and Medicare) there is no way to go back to the beginning ... and no off ramp. Both are good examples of (well intended) social welfare. But, the mathematics has changed. In 1945, there were 42 workers supporting each social security recipients. By 2010, there were 3 workers supporting each recipient.

Is Social Security a Ponzi scheme? Well, not really. But, there are some differences and similarities. I think the biggest similarity is that both are doomed to financial collapse after the passage of sufficient amount of time; that's not gonna happen anytime soon mind you, but it WILL happen. The biggest difference is that one is legal and one is illegal.

[Paper1]

Once we started down that road (Social Security and Medicare) there is no way to go back to the beginning ... and no off ramp. Both are good examples of (well intended) social welfare. But, the mathematics has changed. In 1945, there were 42 workers supporting each social security recipients. By 2010, there were 3 workers supporting each recipient.

Is Social Security a Ponzi scheme? Well, not really. But, there are some differences and similarities. I think the biggest similarity is that both are doomed to financial collapse after the passage of sufficient amount of time; that's not gonna happen anytime soon mind you, but it WILL happen. The biggest difference is that one is legal and one is illegal.
You are exactly correct although many on this forum will complain it is politics, it is not it is just facing honest but very uncomfortable facts. Numbers don't lie. Thank you for post and painful honesty.

[Decadeofdave]

We will forget quickly. Aftermath from the government, ie regulations and legislation $$$$ that will never go away.

[jacksonbrown]

So we shouldn’t hope for a return to “normalcy.” The old normalcy is what necessitated shutting down the world economy because of some pesky new bug. We don’t want to return to that normalcy, do we? Instead, there’ll be a “new normal” to live with.

from The American Thinker (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/airlines_and_disease_in_the_new_normal.html)

[jswirs]

I disagree with your "me first generation" reference at the same time we are burying our children and grandchildren in debt with our social security, pensions, and medical care that we feel is our just due. We will have to agree to disagree as to who is the real "me first" generation is.

Please don't include social security as contributing to our grandchildren's debt. Many, many folks have paid into that system for many , many decades, and don't forget to include the funds donated to that system by our employers. I did the math, I would have to live into my mid 90's before I exhausted all of the contributions both I and my employer have made.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

So we shouldn’t hope for a return to “normalcy.” The old normalcy is what necessitated shutting down the world economy because of some pesky new bug. We don’t want to return to that normalcy, do we? Instead, there’ll be a “new normal” to live with.

from The American Thinker (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/airlines_and_disease_in_the_new_normal.html)

This left-leaning guy says that was a pretty good right-leaning article. Thanks for sharing. A little sensational with the pig excrement on planes, but otherwise insightful.

[retiredguy123]

Please don't include social security as contributing to our grandchildren's debt. Many, many folks have paid into that system for many , many decades, and don't forget to include the funds donated to that system by our employers. I did the math, I would have to live into my mid 90's before I exhausted all of the contributions both I and my employer have made.
But, unless there are major changes made to Social Security, it will definitely contribute to our granchildren's debt. The math may seem to work for people who worked for a long time and were in the middle and upper income brackets. But, those contributions are paying the benefits for lower income people, people who didn't work for a full career, and those who receive a generous spouse benefit, some of whom didn't work at all. Also, the number of people collecting Social Security disability payments has been greatly increasing. The system will probably go broke in about 15 years, unless Congress makes major financial changes, which is very unlikely.

[coffeebean]

So we shouldn’t hope for a return to “normalcy.” The old normalcy is what necessitated shutting down the world economy because of some pesky new bug. We don’t want to return to that normalcy, do we? Instead, there’ll be a “new normal” to live with.

from The American Thinker (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/airlines_and_disease_in_the_new_normal.html)

Once there is a vaccine for this new corona virus and a proven treatment for Covid-19, I want the old normalcy back.

[Paper1]

Please don't include social security as contributing to our grandchildren's debt. Many, many folks have paid into that system for many , many decades, and don't forget to include the funds donated to that system by our employers. I did the math, I would have to live into my mid 90's before I exhausted all of the contributions both I and my employer have made.

I may be wrong but I believe you and your employer were paying for your parents and grandparents not into a personal account. Yes we were over paying and the government we elected decided to spend that money and create the imaginary trust fund you reference. I may have an odd way to look at it but we should have been paying more income tax instead of spending excess social security taxes that were collected. Now that we both shared opinions how do we fix it?
Regards

[r67503]

People will be more selective about avoiding buying junk from China just because it supposedly is cheaper....at least for a while.

[dewilson58]

More thankfulness..........maybe, hopefully.

[retiredguy123]

I may be wrong but I believe you and your employer were paying for your parents and grandparents not into a personal account. Yes we were over paying and the government we elected decided to spend that money and create the imaginary trust fund you reference. I may have an odd way to look at it but we should have been paying more income tax instead of spending excess social security taxes that were collected. Now that we both shared opinions how do we fix it?
Regards
Here's 3 ideas. Raise the retirement age, eliminate the spouse benefit, and crack down on bogus disability claims.

[BAT777]

True Diane!

[Kahuna32162]

Other than a few minor things like shaking hands and hugging at group gatherings, I sincerely doubt anything will change permanently. At first people will be cautious but complacency will eventually dull their concerns. After six months to a year, the Corona Virus will be history. And if they test and approve a vaccine before then, the whole time frame will shorten dramatically. I just checked the US death toll today and it shows a total of 9171 fatalities. The US death toll of the H1N1 pandemic in 2009 was over 12,000 in an equally short time. Do you see any huge changes in the US after the H1N1?

Just an update, as of today, April 16th, the US death toll has topped 30,000. Worried yet?

[DianeM]

Just an update, as of today, April 16th, the US death toll has topped 30,000. Worried yet?

No. Not at all.

[600th Photo Sq]

Hubby and I were just discussing this at dinner this evening. We are frequent cruisers but will probably hold off cruising for at least a year. Sad but true.

Well all is not lost you can always take in " Cruiser Night " at Spanish Springs Town Square, just a thought. :shocked:

[Velvet]

Lower the retirement age. Studies so far indicate that the immunity system of younger people reacts to protect them more strongly than older people after the virus is caught and they survive. Time for Boomers to let the young ones work.

[Velvet]

Just an update, as of today, April 16th, the US death toll has topped 30,000. Worried yet?

Yes, and I’d like to know why? Only 3 countries with much larger populations have deaths higher than NY state.

[DianeM]

Yes, and I’d like to know why? Only 3 countries with much larger populations have deaths higher than NY state.

Why is simple. Have you looked at mere size of the United States. You could fit Italy, Spain and France within our border. Combine their losses against ours. The media is comparing apples and bananas.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Why is simple. Have you looked at mere size of the United States. You could fit Italy, Spain and France within our border. Combine their losses against ours. The media is comparing apples and bananas.

But I sense our per capita case rate is strangely high. I could be wrong. Haven’t had a chance to do an analysis. But even if it is, I’d attribute it to our propensity for international travel, scarcity of testing and locking down late.

[Velvet]

Why is simple. Have you looked at mere size of the United States. You could fit Italy, Spain and France within our border. Combine their losses against ours. The media is comparing apples and bananas.

Let me try to compare apples to apples.
What I was trying to say NY state has 828 deaths per million of its population from Worldometers.

The other top countries in the world for death rate are:

Spain 409 deaths per million of its population
Italy 367 deaths per million of its population
France 275 deaths per million of its population

So NYState has 2 times as many people dying as anywhere in the world at this time and I said, yes, I am worried about it.

[DianeM]

Let me try to compare apples to apples.
What I was trying to say NY state has 828 deaths per million of its population from Worldometers.

The other top countries in the world for death rate are:

Spain 409 deaths per million of its population
Italy 367 deaths per million of its population
France 275 deaths per million of its population

So NYState has 2 times as many people dying as anywhere in the world at this time and I said, yes, I am worried about it.

Did you worry when 60,000 died of H1N1? I’m not worried in the least.

I can answer that as a native. New York City is densely populated. Apartment buildings can have many many floors, 30 to 50 floors or more, of multiple apts on each floor. It would be impossible not to run into neighbors. There is also an element that does not follow rules and you can be sure that’s who’s filling the emergency rooms. The numbers are no longer scary once you know that when you get out of the city and go more upstate, it’s pastoral with very few, if any, cases.

[Velvet]

You are right... but I have friends in NYC too.

[DianeM]

But I sense our per capita case rate is strangely high. I could be wrong. Haven’t had a chance to do an analysis. But even if it is, I’d attribute it to our propensity for international travel, scarcity of testing and locking down late.

Really only high in New York because of population density.

There are sufficient tests for sick people and that’s who should get them not every one who needs to assuage their fear. You cannot test 330 million, nor should you.
Besides, you could be negative on Tuesday and positive on Thursday.

DeSantis was wrong to let the partying go on at the beaches as long as he did.

[DianeM]

You are right... but I have friends in NYC too.

Same here. I never lived in the city but always the burbs but the crowding there was high.

[geofitz13]

I adopt a slightly different turn of phrase regarding social security and medicare. By government definition, they are entitlements. I think you are arguing they are earned entitlements because you have already paid for them.

But, it's important for the federal budget to distinguish between entitlements (mandatory spending) and non-entitlements, which is discretionary spending in the budget.

Personally, I find this offensive. The government should use the proper terminology. Mandatory or Discretionary would be fine. To label something we paid into (while the congress exempts itself and its' friends) as "Entitlements" is misleading and offensive. The next step is to define SS as "Government Benefits" which will make it very easy to cut or eliminate.
How about making all federal employees, including all three branches of government, subject to Social Security. Scrap their overly generous retirement programs, and live like the rest of us. Then see what they call it.

[Paper1]

Here's 3 ideas. Raise the retirement age, eliminate the spouse benefit, and crack down on bogus disability claims.

We should have a serious dialog about all three of those you mention and others but honesty and desire to be re-elected are powerful deterrents.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

How about making all federal employees, including all three branches of government, subject to Social Security. Scrap their overly generous retirement programs, and live like the rest of us. Then see what they call it.

As a retired federal employee, I'd like to point out that we were required to contribute a significant portion of our salary each and every payday to the federal retirement plan. It's an annuity. Anyone who socks away money throughout their entire career of multiple decades has the same expectation for a potentially "generous" outcome. We do not have access to Social Security benefits. And whether the program is "generous" is a matter of opinion.

Federal retiree benefits vary greatly depending on occupation, geographic location, educational level, length of tenure and other factors. Many federal retirees could not live comfortably in the Villages on their federal annuity alone.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

So NYState has 2 times as many people dying as anywhere in the world at this time and I said, yes, I am worried about it.

Try adjusting the data for population density, people per square mile. Then adjust the population for working versus home base. Then adjust the data for public versus private commute, ie bus, subway versus tax and personal vehicle. ie, Then you will have your answer.

Good data analysis requires lots of relevant variables, but the more relevant the variables, the harder the variables are to get quality relevant data. . . .

sportsguy

[Doro22]

Other than a few minor things like shaking hands and hugging at group gatherings, I sincerely doubt anything will change permanently. At first people will be cautious but complacency will eventually dull their concerns. After six months to a year, the Corona Virus will be history. And if they test and approve a vaccine before then, the whole time frame will shorten dramatically. I just checked the US death toll today and it shows a total of 9171 fatalities. The US death toll of the H1N1 pandemic in 2009 was over 12,000 in an equally short time. Do you see any huge changes in the US after the H1N1?

I surely agree about handshaking. And all that hugging I have seen in groups here is so annoying. Why oh why were these silly ladies practically racing across a Rec Center room to hug someone they see 2x a week. Then stand there holding & rocking back & forth to show everyone else that they have a friend. They were doing this as recently as early March at exercise session. I never did get it.
Oh...and cruise ships: a virtual germ/virus factory. After a 10 day cruise about four years ago neither my husband nor I ever wanted to do another cruise. Glad we agreed on that. I would rather fly or drive to a lovely destination & stay there to enjoy the ambiance.

[geofitz13]

[QUOTE= Many federal retirees could not live comfortably in the Villages on their federal annuity alone.[/QUOTE]


I'm sure you are correct. I don't know of ANY ss recipients who could live in the Villages on ss alone. I stand on my statement.

[jacksonbrown]

" I don't know of ANY ss recipients who could live in the Villages on ss alone. I stand on my statement. "

Of course you stand on your statement, it's your statement.

I live on my income from Social Security.

[geofitz13]

" I don't know of ANY ss recipients who could live in the Villages on ss alone. I stand on my statement. "

Of course you stand on your statement, it's your statement.

I live on my income from Social Security.

Perhaps I mis-spoke.
I stand BY my statement. Is that better? You obviously got the idea, but chose to get a bit snarky.
If you do live solely on your Social Security income, I congratulate you. Obviously, no mortgage. Possibly maxed out benefits by holding off on retirement? Good strategy, although not all can do that. You are the only person I have heard of that is living strictly off Social Security. I doubt many others are in your position.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Perhaps I mis-spoke.
I stand BY my statement. Is that better? You obviously got the idea, but chose to get a bit snarky.
If you do live solely on your Social Security income, I congratulate you. Obviously, no mortgage. Possibly maxed out benefits by holding off on retirement? Good strategy, although not all can do that. You are the only person I have heard of that is living strictly off Social Security. I doubt many others are in your position.

My spouse's pension is less than what just his SS payments will be when he's eligible for it next year, and we have no trouble living off of just his pension as long as we're careful and don't go crazy with travel or expensive toys and doodads. Our health care costs are low only because I work part time to bump up our combined income JUST enough to be eligible for ACA subsidies. It's just another $1600/year that we need to make up for. His social security check will bring us to the point where I can quit working forever. And that would be true even if he didn't have his pension.

Two years after that, I'll get MY social security, and we'll be living the lifestyle we had actually planned on living before hubby's department shut down and forced him into early retirement.

[geofitz13]

I congratulate you. Obviously, little or no mortgage. Little or no debt. According to reports I have seen, approximately 40% of villagers have mortgages. That has a huge impact on affordability if you only receive ss. Once you are on just ss, don't forget to budget for medical expenses. Either a significant monthly premium with no deductibles/copays, or no premium with significant copays. They get you one way or the other. Don't forget to budget for even minimal travel. Or gifts to kids/grandkids. Oh yeah, and then there is car insurance, home owners' insurance. Did I mention water, trash, amenity fees? And when the virus problem is eventually solved, you may want to go out to eat on occasion. I'm pretty sure I may be missing some other items.
If you can truly live on only ss income, and not touching savings or 401k or pensions to accommodate any of the above, you are way ahead of the game. Congratulations.

[Chatbrat]

I believe the cruise industry is totally finished, unless a cure and a vaccine is developed, And ship design will have to be altered dramatically--maximum density will now play second fiddle to safety & sanitation

They let the frequent norovirus exposures go on for way too long