US reopening with no cure or vaccine and little testing?

[LiverpoolWalrus]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)

I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.

[manaboutown]

It is a conundrum. I am following what is happening in Sweden. Interestingly, Switzerland this morning with a population of 8+M had suffered 1,100+ deaths; Sweden with a population of 10+M had suffered 1,000+ deaths.

As virus deaths rise, Sweden sticks to '''low-scale''' lockdown - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/virus-deaths-rise-sweden-sticks-low-scale-lockdown-70114439)

Coronavirus: the situation in Switzerland - SWI swissinfo.ch (https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-19_coronavirus--the-situation-in-switzerland/45592192)

[retiredguy123]

I agree, but there needs to be a compromise. A cure or vaccine may not be available for 2 years or more. But, a large percentage of the people who get the virus recover. I don't think people are willing to stay home for the next 2 years.

[DianeM]

I understand the need for caution, but we can’t stay home forever. I think the Rec centers should remain closed because they are a confined space. Perhaps open the larger pools since they are chemically treated. Perhaps open the squares but do not serve alcohol since people behave badly when inebriated.

[manaboutown]

Many things need to be considered. What about joblessness leading to domestic violence, suicides and rampant crime? What about the country and world entering a severe depression lasting years if not decades like we haven't seen in 90 years? We need to seek workable solutions.

[Bogie Shooter]

Would it be different if this wasn't an election year?

[Velvet]

This is just my opinion, but each day I see the news the virus management seems better and better. I think any opening of the economy will be evaluated carefully each day and recalled if necessary.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Would it be different if this wasn't an election year?

I don't think it matters. As I see it, that man in the White House can't win (against the virus) either way - he either allows many more people to get sick and die or he destroys the economy and people's livelihoods. He's somehow managed to save face for three years, let's hope he finds a trick to get us out of this mess. But barring a cure or vaccine, I can't see what it would be.

To the others: So far it sounds like the consensus is reopen the country and sacrifice lives in a sort of cost/benefit analysis.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I understand the need for caution, but we can’t stay home forever. I think the Rec centers should remain closed because they are a confined space. Perhaps open the larger pools since they are chemically treated. Perhaps open the squares but do not serve alcohol since people behave badly when inebriated.

I agree to some extent with the idea of what you post.

Agree that the inside rec centers be closed, or limited with someone to serve as a counter, and limited group sizes, with no loitering in the halls or central area. If a club has more than 15 members, then that club can't have a full-membership meeting inside. If the club only has 5-10 members then they can have their meeting, with chairs spaced appropriately, and any buffet-style treats at the end of the meeting have to be visited one person at a time.

If you open the larger pools only, then everyone who goes to any of the pools, will all try to congregate at only the larger pools. For that reason I would suggest opening ALL the pools but limiting them to ONLY residents of the area. In other words - if you live in the Paradise Rec center area, then you can't go to the Caroline Pool.

If your area doesn't have its own pool you can use the regional pool. If your area has its own pool, you should not be using the regional pool.

And it needs to be, for the time being, residents only. Tenants are residents, so as long as they have a residents' ID, they should have the same privileges. GUESTS should not be permitted, for now at least. Not grandchildren, not kids. Properties are intended to have 2 residents per home. So only 2 resident IDs should be issued to any individual home.

The problem with the squares is people congregating in close quarters. I'd suggest removing the seating entirely - no more seats allowed, not even if you bring them in yourself. That will drastically reduce the number of people who congregate, and limit how long they stay in the area.

Open all businesses to OUTDOOR business only. Sidewalk sales, outdoor eating, etc. It's a sad fact that if you give people an inch, they'll take a mile. If you let exactly 4 people into your boutique, then when one leaves the next one in line will demand to be let in with her spouse and visiting grandkids. It would just be a logistic nightmare to enforce social distancing rules inside cramped boutiques like those in the squares.

For the same reason, instead of weekly, biweekly, or monthly craft fairs - maybe make them daily. Turn the squares into pedestrian traffic only, and make these "events" non-events by making them commonplace.

You'll have fewer people attending on a daily basis, but vendors will still be able to take in a profit because the same number of people will be attending weekly. The population gets spread out, instead of all showing up at once.

I also think it might be possible to implement a drink chit system. You can buy drink credits, and use up to 2 per day. They could be attached to your Villages ID, or drivers' license for the public that doesn't live in the Villages. That way they can't be used by other people.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

I understand the need for caution, but we can’t stay home forever. I think the Rec centers should remain closed because they are a confined space. Perhaps open the larger pools since they are chemically treated.

Oh no, not the Rec centers!!! The activities are the reason I bought in TV just three short months ago! The risk of the "confined space" in the Rec centers would not be much greater than being close to someone in a store, restaurant, church, etc. The snowbirds probably wouldn't come down next season either if the Rec centers stayed closed, killing the rental market.

[karostay]

This is just my opinion, but each day I see the news the virus management seems better and better. I think any opening of the economy will be evaluated carefully each day and recalled if necessary.

Finally someone on here that actually has made a statement with some common sense...
Thank You :bigbow::bigbow:

[GoodLife]

Any rolling opening of the country is likely to include an advisory for old fogies and younger people with covid 19 sensitive health problems to continue some sort of social distancing.

Since 99% of TV consists of retired old fogies you are probably going to get a skewed response here. People with jobs and families are most likely to be more important in a re opening of the economy.

[stadry]

opinions ? these are all opinions,theories, suppositions, wishes since NO one knows,,, vaccine ? we're still waiting for the aids vaccine & that's been since reagan's presidency
my prediction ? more of the same

[DianeM]

Oh no, not the Rec centers!!! The activities are the reason I bought in TV just three short months ago! The risk of the "confined space" in the Rec centers would not be much greater than being close to someone in a store, restaurant, church, etc. The snowbirds probably wouldn't come down next season either if the Rec centers stayed closed, killing the rental market.

You make it sound like a bad thing if the snowbirds don’t come.

Stores, restaurants and churches should remain closed. Only outdoor activities for short term.

[DianeM]

opinions ? these are all opinions,theories, suppositions, wishes since NO one knows,,, vaccine ? we're still waiting for the aids vaccine & that's been since reagan's presidency
my prediction ? more of the same

Yes of course they’re opinions. Just conversation since no one has a working crystal ball.

[JoMar]

opinions ? these are all opinions,theories, suppositions, wishes since NO one knows,,, vaccine ? we're still waiting for the aids vaccine & that's been since reagan's presidency
my prediction ? more of the same

No matter who makes what decision to open or stay closed it will still come down to how risk adverse we are. If they open the rec centers with restrictions it's still our decision to go. We know there are those that are carriers (asymptomatic) and those that may have had it and recovered. We know we are putting ourselves at risk when we mingle. Since there is no cure or vaccine, (lots of maybes though), if you contract it can't blame it on the government since the decision is always yours.....and we know how that will work out here.

[GoodLife]

Would it be different if this wasn't an election year?


LOL. World wide pandemics and cratering of economy are different when they happen in non election years. 🙄

[DianeM]

I agree to some extent with the idea of what you post.

Agree that the inside rec centers be closed, or limited with someone to serve as a counter, and limited group sizes, with no loitering in the halls or central area. If a club has more than 15 members, then that club can't have a full-membership meeting inside. If the club only has 5-10 members then they can have their meeting, with chairs spaced appropriately, and any buffet-style treats at the end of the meeting have to be visited one person at a time.

If you open the larger pools only, then everyone who goes to any of the pools, will all try to congregate at only the larger pools. For that reason I would suggest opening ALL the pools but limiting them to ONLY residents of the area. In other words - if you live in the Paradise Rec center area, then you can't go to the Caroline Pool.

If your area doesn't have its own pool you can use the regional pool. If your area has its own pool, you should not be using the regional pool.

And it needs to be, for the time being, residents only. Tenants are residents, so as long as they have a residents' ID, they should have the same privileges. GUESTS should not be permitted, for now at least. Not grandchildren, not kids. Properties are intended to have 2 residents per home. So only 2 resident IDs should be issued to any individual home.

The problem with the squares is people congregating in close quarters. I'd suggest removing the seating entirely - no more seats allowed, not even if you bring them in yourself. That will drastically reduce the number of people who congregate, and limit how long they stay in the area.

Open all businesses to OUTDOOR business only. Sidewalk sales, outdoor eating, etc. It's a sad fact that if you give people an inch, they'll take a mile. If you let exactly 4 people into your boutique, then when one leaves the next one in line will demand to be let in with her spouse and visiting grandkids. It would just be a logistic nightmare to enforce social distancing rules inside cramped boutiques like those in the squares.

For the same reason, instead of weekly, biweekly, or monthly craft fairs - maybe make them daily. Turn the squares into pedestrian traffic only, and make these "events" non-events by making them commonplace.

You'll have fewer people attending on a daily basis, but vendors will still be able to take in a profit because the same number of people will be attending weekly. The population gets spread out, instead of all showing up at once.

I also think it might be possible to implement a drink chit system. You can buy drink credits, and use up to 2 per day. They could be attached to your Villages ID, or drivers' license for the public that doesn't live in the Villages. That way they can't be used by other people.


Absolutely agree - residents only and not guests or twice removed cousins, etc. Yes, your grandchild is cute. Now get it out of my space.

I suggested larger pools because they are monitored somewhat by the person working the desk to prevent overcrowding. The neighborhood pools are a free for all that no one watches.

The idea of a drink limit is not bad but can’t we be booze free for the short term?

[LiverpoolWalrus]

You make it sound like a bad thing if the snowbirds don’t come.



Yes, truth be told, because I bought my Villages place planning to rent it out in the winter and stay at my other home in southeast Florida where it's warmer.

[cb1972]

Its time to move forward and incrementaly restart the economy. Young people and families are being adversely affected . Individuals need to practice whatever mitigation strategies they deem necessary. Rules need to be put into place to protect those at risk , nursing homes , hospitals etc.. Burying our heads in the sand is not helpful and can only lead to a self imposed economic disaster which could cripple our country for years to come.

[DianeM]

Its time to move forward and incrementaly restart the economy. Young people and families are being adversely affected . Individuals need to practice whatever mitigation strategies they deem necessary. Rules need to be put into place to protect those at risk , nursing homes , hospitals etc.. Burying our heads in the sand is not helpful and can only lead to a self imposed economic disaster which could cripple our country for years to come.

Agree with you completely

[skyking]

It seems as though the paranoid want to confine us all indefinitely. If you are worried, stay home. Let the rest of us make our own decisions. As some would say, My body, My choice.

[Gpsma]

It seems as though the paranoid want to confine us all indefinitely. If you are worried, stay home. Let the rest of us make our own decisions. As some would say, My body, My choice.

Here, Here.

Let the Maskies stay home in fear.

Let those who are not paranoid out, open stores, movies and town squares.

Enough already

[blueash]

Here, Here.

Let the Maskies stay home in fear.

Let those who are not paranoid out, open stores, movies and town squares.

Enough already

Maskies?? What is influencing people to give derogatory nicknames to people with whom they don't agree?

Hear hear [homophones]

[Gpsma]

Yes...Maskies...so afraid...dont realize that their homemade mask is useless.

Masks...saw some paranoid with a scarf wrapped around her head

Really?

[DianeM]

Yes...Maskies...so afraid...dont realize that their homemade mask is useless.

Masks...saw some paranoid with a scarf wrapped around her head

Really?

Truly what’s it to you if people wish to use a mask or scarf ?

[Love2Swim]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)


I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.

I don't get it either. Frankly, it sounds like the person in charge wants to open things up the first of May, to ostensibly get the economy going, and of course to aid his re-election bid. Against the advice of the health professionals and experts. I think its just plain stupid. I will be careful and doing social distancing until there is a vaccine available or it is obvious the threat of infection is low. Anyways it is up to the Governors to decide when they open up their states - many are saying it will be at least until June.

[billethkid]

Keyboard bravado.
Anonymous disparaging cheap talk is the worst!!

[Gpsma]

Keyboard bravado.
Anonymous disparaging cheap talk is the worst!!

Nope..no bravado, just being realistic with no fear.

I see people in fear here. I suspect many come from a non-urban environment and think if they come close to someone they will get immediately infected.

Wonder how people who commuted to work in the NYC subways, Chicago Els, DC metros survived so many flu epidemics...with no colorful maskies on?

[Paper1]

Would it be different if this wasn't an election year?

I don't know you Bogie Shooter but you are right it sure as hell would be.

[jmarklove]

News' Alexander Nazaryan:
"Florida now has twice as many coronavirus cases (20,601) as South Korea (10,537).
"About 30 million more people live in South Korea than in Florida."

[Paper1]

Its time to move forward and incrementaly restart the economy. Young people and families are being adversely affected . Individuals need to practice whatever mitigation strategies they deem necessary. Rules need to be put into place to protect those at risk , nursing homes , hospitals etc.. Burying our heads in the sand is not helpful and can only lead to a self imposed economic disaster which could cripple our country for years to come.
I agree with you, this has to happen. Trump is getting crucified daily for pushing getting economy open too quickly but media is not talking at all about the long-term effect of paying people to stay at home with anywhere near the same enthusiasm.

[xNYer]

[QUOTE=Gpsma;1746265]Nope..no bravado, just being realistic with no fear.

You could interpret no fear in a few ways. Being realistic is your interpretation.
Being unrealistic is another.

[billethkid]

We need more people to move to FL?

[GoodLife]

Nope..no bravado, just being realistic with no fear.

I see people in fear here. I suspect many come from a non-urban environment and think if they come close to someone they will get immediately infected.

Wonder how people who commuted to work in the NYC subways, Chicago Els, DC metros survived so many flu epidemics...with no colorful maskies on?

I wonder why New York is currently global epicenter of the pandemic with 160,000 cases?

[vilger]

Wonder how people who commuted to work in the NYC subways, Chicago Els, DC metros survived so many flu epidemics...with no colorful maskies on?

Why don't you ask the families of the 10,000+ people in NYC who have died from the virus so far?

[Paper1]

I don't get it either. Frankly, it sounds like the person in charge wants to open things up the first of May, to ostensibly get the economy going, and of course to aid his re-election bid. Against the advice of the health professionals and experts. I think its just plain stupid. I will be careful and doing social distancing until there is a vaccine available or it is obvious the threat of infection is low. Anyways it is up to the Governors to decide when they open up their states - many are saying it will be at least until June.
I suspect a lot of opinions would differ if you were paying for stimulus with deductions from your pension and social security deposits. Our grandchildren are getting stuck with all of this, that is why we need to get economy going as quickly as possible with educated risks.

[eyc234]

If you do not begin to reopen society and industries, what do you think you will be eating in a few weeks? You can hoard all you want and at some time you will need something from someone that has to go out in public to do their work. The work to keep a society must go on with intelligent and logical controls and procedures to make it work. It is not going to be perfect and there will be mistakes and ways we find to do it better but if you wait for perfection before acting we probably do not want to see what that entails.

[Topspinmo]

Would it be different if this wasn't an election year?

I doubt it. Career politicians are always in election year.

[Topspinmo]

I don't know you Bogie Shooter but you are right it sure as hell would be.

I doubt it.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

I don't get it either. Frankly, it sounds like the person in charge wants to open things up the first of May, to ostensibly get the economy going, and of course to aid his re-election bid.

The opposite could happen. That's the "political suicide" I mentioned. He's the last person who would do anything to derail his reelection. But if there's a second wave in the fall as many are predicting, he's toast.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

I don't know you Bogie Shooter but you are right it sure as hell would be.

So just curious...how would it be different? Stay in lock down longer and ruin the economy and people's livelihoods or lift it sooner and kill off more of the vulnerable? I don't see how an election year has anything to do with it. Either choice would not be favorable for anyone's reelection.

[DianeM]

Nope..no bravado, just being realistic with no fear.

I see people in fear here. I suspect many come from a non-urban environment and think if they come close to someone they will get immediately infected.

Wonder how people who commuted to work in the NYC subways, Chicago Els, DC metros survived so many flu epidemics...with no colorful maskies on?

I took the subway for years until I could transfer to a suburban job where I drove to work. The subway is the armpit of New York but what you endured to make a living. I believe at that time you built up an immunity of sorts to crud. There was no time to build up immunity with this. Quite rude to call concerned people “maskies”. Again I say - what’s it to you.

[GoodLife]

Some social distancing may be needed into 2022 to keep coronavirus in check, new study says

Study sees need for some social distancing into 2022 to curb coronavirus (https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/14/some-social-distancing-may-be-needed-into-2022-to-keep-coronavirus-in-check-new-study-says/)

[DianeM]

Some social distancing may be needed into 2022 to keep coronavirus in check, new study says

Study sees need for some social distancing into 2022 to curb coronavirus (https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/14/some-social-distancing-may-be-needed-into-2022-to-keep-coronavirus-in-check-new-study-says/)

Would that really be worth it? Two years in captivity?

[Velvet]

If, we do not have a vaccine by then.

[DianeM]

If, we do not have a vaccine by then.

Not all that sure I’d take a new vaccine initially. I don’t take flu shots and have never had the flu. I realize this is a newer virus but a quick fix vaccine could be more dangerous

[Velvet]

Not all that sure I’d take a new vaccine initially. I don’t take flu shots and have never had the flu. I realize this is a newer virus but a quick fix vaccine could be more dangerous

I think that is a wise choice.

[DianeM]

I think that is a wise choice.

Just not comfortable with quick, lesser tested vaccine.

[DianeM]

Trump was singing a different tune tonight than he was a couple of days ago. Then he claimed he had absolute power as President of the US and he planned to open the country with a big bang. I wonder why the change of heart?

That’s easy. So if the virus re-emerges, it’s not on his head. He gave the governors what they wanted. Now they can’t whine. Brilliant.

[patfla06]

I do not believe any one of us wish to continue to stay home.
We are all missing out on an active life and miss our family and friends.

Many of us in T.V. are higher risk due to our age and many of us have medical conditions that add to the risk.

So when life starts back up I would still be very cautious due to the higher risk.

[EdFNJ]

Problem is, when the small group crazies who don't give a hoot are running around town yelling "free at last free at last" because of their own choice to expose themselves in public it affects those of us who want to stay safe. Their "choice" is forcing the "other choice" to hide at home because the place is overrun by crazies who don't give a hoot. Fine, do whatever YOU want but don't kill me.

It's like cigarette smoking. I don't give a sh1t who smokes and kills themselves, that's your choice, but keep it away from me because I don't want you to kill me with your poison smoke.

[JimJohnson]

It’s not that complicated.
Money or lives.
Their is no normal until Covid 19 is eradicated. To think otherwise is the thinking of a demented mind. :pray:

[fishon]

You are responsible for your own choices.
You are not in control of the choices made by others.
Act accordingly.
There, that wasn't so difficult, was it?

[tsmall22204]

Are you on drugs? Do you know something no one else knows? Chicken little the sky is not falling.

[jedalton]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)

I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.the cure can't be worse than the problem. we need to open our Country or we will have a bad depression

[PugMom]

Just not comfortable with quick, lesser tested vaccine.i must agree. like you, ive never had a flu shot, & am lucky, i dont get the flu. i'm also skeptical of new vax & the country in which they are made

[Medtrans]

Nope..no bravado, just being realistic with no fear.

I see people in fear here. I suspect many come from a non-urban environment and think if they come close to someone they will get immediately infected.

Wonder how people who commuted to work in the NYC subways, Chicago Els, DC metros survived so many flu epidemics...with no colorful maskies on?

They’ve had a flu vaccine....

[Parker]

98% survival rate. Many show mild to moderate symptoms or none at all. I'd say open the economy before we end up with an actual depression, and I'll take whatever health precautions I deem necessary for myself.

[Rwirish]

Need to compromise and start a rollout as determined by the medical experts.

[MandoMan]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)

I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.

The idea is that sensible people LIKE US who are at greater risk of dying of this will continue to do the most sensible thing FOR US, while those at lesser risk or with lower IQs will rush back to their former lives and take risks they find acceptable. Reopening may be good for business and for many millions of workers, even if not for us, but we can wait it out. Keep on keeping your distance. I’ll see you in four or five months.

[davem4616]

okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here...

consider the analogy of being at war with this unseen enemy

when you go to war you are either fully prepared or you hunker down for awhile until you are able to fight back....people die in wars....but what is it that we are fighting for...we are not fighting for a cure (the cure will eventually come), we are fighting to keep the American way of life alive

ya can't win a war by keeping your head down and staying in a fox hole...some of us will be on those initial landing boats going ashore and yes, we won't make it to the beach...

it takes courage to fight a war

Courage is saddling up and riding out when you're scared to death (Pilgrim)

[CFrance]

Nope..no bravado, just being realistic with no fear.

I see people in fear here. I suspect many come from a non-urban environment and think if they come close to someone they will get immediately infected.

Wonder how people who commuted to work in the NYC subways, Chicago Els, DC metros survived so many flu epidemics...with no colorful maskies on?
Um... and look at where the worst breakouts are.

[bruce213]

With almost everything in life you have to make the decision that is best for you. You gather the information, weigh it and choose

[villageuser]

This is just my opinion, but each day I see the news the virus management seems better and better. I think any opening of the economy will be evaluated carefully each day and recalled if necessary.

I don’t mean to be rude. But where are you reading this?

The last thing I read is that the droplets ARE falling on the ground and we have to be aware that the soles of our shoes are contaminated. We should not be outside, especially in the grocery store, Walmart, etc, and go home with our shoes on.

This virus is NOT being managed. This country still has inadequate testing, no way to be able to get the data of what people have come into contact recently with a person who tests positive, and an inadequate work force at this time to contact these people, if there was a way to figure out who they are. Bill Gates, Apple, Google and governors of many states are working towards these goals, but the process has only begun (finally!) and not near any level where we can say it is being managed.

Personally, I don’t care what the government or businesses do or say. I will continue to wear masks, and gloves, soap down my hands, countertops, table, etc, and take all other necessary precautions until there is a vaccine in place and no new cases for 2 weeks.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Thanks for all your replies so far. It seems the consensus is yes we will go out and participate in TV's activities as soon as we are able to and not continue to "live in a foxhole" as one poster said.

[jswirs]

okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here...

consider the analogy of being at war with this unseen enemy

when you go to war you are either fully prepared or you hunker down for awhile until you are able to fight back....people die in wars....but what is it that we are fighting for...we are not fighting for a cure (the cure will eventually come), we are fighting to keep the American way of life alive

ya can't win a war by keeping your head down and staying in a fox hole...some of us will be on those initial landing boats going ashore and yes, we won't make it to the beach...

it takes courage to fight a war

Courage is saddling up and riding out when you're scared to death (Pilgrim)
I could not agree more with your brilliant analogy. Bravo for you.

[eyc234]

You are responsible for your own choices.
You are not in control of the choices made by others.
Act accordingly.
There, that wasn't so difficult, was it?

:ohdear: Except when their choices effect me or the general public!

[Joanne19335]

I don't think it matters. As I see it, that man in the White House can't win (against the virus) either way - he either allows many more people to get sick and die or he destroys the economy and people's livelihoods. He's somehow managed to save face for three years, let's hope he finds a trick to get us out of this mess. But barring a cure or vaccine, I can't see what it would be.

To the others: So far it sounds like the consensus is reopen the country and sacrifice lives in a sort of cost/benefit analysis.

This is no time for tricks. Lives are at stake. We need to continue practicing social distancing and not gather in crowds. As we have seen, many of us Villagers still consider this virus something that can’t happen to us and continually break the rules. It is too soon to “open”. Florida’s curve is still weeks away.

[Ken Traverse]

Thank you George Orwell.

[mikemalloy]

It's one thing to be a senior citizen living in a retirement community with investment income, a pension, and Social Security. It's another to be a 32 yr. old production worker with a wife and kids who now finds himself one of the 16 million Americans who have lost their livelihood in the past month. Asking him to financially survive in a lock down for over a year until a vaccine is produced is not fair or reasonable. There has to be a decision that respects what's best for all Americans.
And on a second thought, the governors of states are puffing their authority and pretending that they are in charge of their fate. However, their lifeblood taxes have been severely disrupted and they will need federal help as well as a resumption of business as soon as possible. The smart ones know not to show too much disrespect to the individual on the other end of the lifeline.

[Stu from NYC]

I would not want to be the one to make the decision, can see it both ways.

[moe1212]

Perhaps they are finding it is as deadly as the seasonal flu as the actual numbers start to come in. The flu is bad people die every year but we have never closed the economy in such a way which can effect people / country drastically / worse
in many ways. I think moving forward the steps we are taking now during flu season in terms of masks distancing and washing hands would be good. As an important side note you should do some research regarding the flu vaccine it has a terrible track record. it is frighting to hear the term "they are unleashing us" I do not want them/ they telling me when I can be unleashed

[Bmacs]

China is starting it's "second wave" now because of rushing back to work. 169 new cases yesterday.

[nancymiller217@yahoo.com]

You have to look back-the ONLY reason we closed things down was to flatten the curve and keep from overwhelming hospitals. Except in a few areas, hospitals are NOT overwhelmed, many are operating at huge losses since no elective patients are using them. If this shutdown continues, we will not only destroy small businesses, but we will see hospitals close. Then if/when there’s a second wave....

The tipping point is here. Those who are vulnerable will need to Continue to stay home.

[Byte1]

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the I
So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.

Ever heard of the Great Depression? There was mass suicides because it was so bad. If we remain closed, some businesses will not reopen. And if the gov does not have revenues, it can't pay all those that benefit from monthly paydays. If you don't like it, you can continue to self-quarantine. No one is going to force you to leave your home. Don't over think it.

[Topspinmo]

The opposite could happen. That's the "political suicide" I mentioned. He's the last person who would do anything to derail his reelection. But if there's a second wave in the fall as many are predicting, he's toast.

He’s not politician. All your Monday morning career politician quarterbacks are. Who always seem to have the right answer afterwords which they made no decision before hand.


We could still be shut down to fall and second wave could STILL happen and third. There could be no solution to vaccine for years. Nice to to be Monday morning quarterbacking.

[mtlee024]

I read, today, reports of vaccine testing in the state of Washington on humans. It will take 45 plus days to determine if the vacine is working.

[Topspinmo]

China is starting it's "second wave" now because of rushing back to work. 169 new cases yesterday.


169 out of billion, yep, that new wave. Nobody knows how many in China are sick or died.

[Topspinmo]

i must agree. like you, ive never had a flu shot, & am lucky, i dont get the flu. i'm also skeptical of new vax & the country in which they are made


You don’t get flu due to you’re due diligence and habits keeping you safe distance.

[Topspinmo]

Would that really be worth it? Two years in captivity?

Guess, opinion, fear mongering

[Topspinmo]

News' Alexander Nazaryan:
"Florida now has twice as many coronavirus cases (20,601) as South Korea (10,537).
"About 30 million more people live in South Korea than in Florida."

So, more people From all over the world travel here spreading virus.

[Jacob85]

More people may recover from the virus but not the ones who are old and or having pre- existing conditions so those who want things back to normal, are you willing to put money ahead of peoples lives?

[Topspinmo]

I wonder why New York is currently global epicenter of the pandemic with 160,000 cases?


Crammed in like sardines, people from all over the world travel to aNd through spreading virus. By time they know they had problem it was already out of control.

[Bill1701]

If we open the pools, we'll run into the same problems we had before. Too many people staying too close together. There is not enough staff to monitor the pools,clean the equipment, and check IDs.

[Topspinmo]

More people may recover from the virus but not the ones who are old and or having pre- existing conditions so those who want things back to normal, are you willing to put money ahead of peoples lives?

So, what do you think going to happen when nobody has any money, no hospitals, no federal government, no food?

[Aces4]

I don't get it either. Frankly, it sounds like the person in charge wants to open things up the first of May, to ostensibly get the economy going, and of course to aid his re-election bid. Against the advice of the health professionals and experts. I think its just plain stupid. I will be careful and doing social distancing until there is a vaccine available or it is obvious the threat of infection is low. Anyways it is up to the Governors to decide when they open up their states - many are saying it will be at least until June.

If that’s what people have comprehended from the White House updates, I can understand why they have to repeat over and over what is planned. There are excellent, brilliant citizens being tasked with the reopening our country slowly and as safety as possible. While the less than enlightened people stand on the sidelines clucking, the brains of this country know what this country needs to carefully get back to business. Your leaders know much more than the average citizen about the juggling act required to keep US citizens safe and at the same time keeping an eye on the food, medical and basic nessessities supply chain and economy without creating panic. Don’t think there won’t be a food shortage if this country can’t get up and running soon? Our leaders don’t have the luxury of keeping their eyes on just one ball.

[sail33or]

First, this is a "Flu". (Not the Plague). People dying every minute of something. They just aren't posting the score on every media outlet.

I understand if you are 85 or have COPD that you are afraid. But regular flu can kill you also. Falling in Shower will kill you.

I heard a perfectly logical solution to this.

Everyone that is not afraid can resume normal life. Everyone that is "afraid" can stay home as long as they want. They can avoid everyone that has resumed normal life.

Let's not punish hard working families in their 30's, 40's, etc. that have a 99.99% chance of surviving the flu. Healthy people that get Corona Virus are not going to the hospital. They go home to bed for a few days. So overwhelming health care is not going to happen IF those at risk stay home until vaccines, etc.

[Jazzman]

And the longer the economy remains stagnant the more bad news for those out of work. Currently the projected number of people out of work will reach 27 million by June. Think about that. And here in the Villages there are many residents who think once restrictions are eased all will be well. Be rest assured that will not be the case and many business and especially restaurants will remain either closed or go out of business. Those that open will require less employees so the unemployment situation will continue on a large scale which will have more dire consequences socially and economically then the virus itself

[Radioman41]

Interestingly, Sweden and Brazil kept their economies open during the COVD-19 pandemic and their numbers are dropping faster than ours. See Gateway Pundit, April 12, 2020. This would confirm epidemiologist, Knut Wittkowski's statement about herd immunity. The path we are following may lead to a new outbreak next fall. Check out the below video.

Perspectives on the Pandemic | Professor Knut Wittkowski | Episode 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=lGC5sGdz4kg&feature=emb_logo)

[Bill32]

When the country starts to open up, and new guidelines are issued, i'll then reevaluate what i'll do and what precautions i'll take....my decision...

[Professor]

For those who have someone in their household with a compromised immune system it is likely the behavior will not go back to what it used to be. Eating out has its hazards with menus that are not sanitized between customers, salt and pepper shakers that rarely if ever get cleaned, ketchup...and the list goes on. Entertainment at the square is important from a social perspective and distance can be somewhat controlled for those who want some distance, but exercise facilities are not likely to be in the cards for some time to come. The country as we knew it will not return to the same old same old in my opinion. Some will of course, but many if us will be much more reserved and aware going forward. At least we can hope we have learned some things through all of this...

[Tblue]

Cuomo said it himself, NYC is being hit so hard for 2 reasons. 1. Our dense population. 2. Our diverse population, our ability to accept people/cultures from all over the world.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

So, what do you think going to happen when ... no federal government, no food?

I didn't know these things were at risk. Elaborate?

[Rwaccess]

I agree with you .

[Villageswimmer]

Are you on drugs? Do you know something no one else knows? Chicken little the sky is not falling.

Are you responding to a post??

[Aces4]

I didn't know these things were at risk. Elaborate?

Markets have changed. Farmers are dumping milk, strawberries are beginning to rot in the fields for lack of demand, shelves are difficult to restock with some items, meat processing plants have closed due to virus spread within. Most food industries work on a small profit margin, they can’t hold up very long.

[DianeM]

......The smart ones know not to show too much disrespect to the individual on the other end of the lifeline.

Perfectly stated.

[oldtimes]

First, this is a "Flu". (Not the Plague). People dying every minute of something. They just aren't posting the score on every media outlet.

I understand if you are 85 or have COPD that you are afraid. But regular flu can kill you also. Falling in Shower will kill you.

I heard a perfectly logical solution to this.

Everyone that is not afraid can resume normal life. Everyone that is "afraid" can stay home as long as they want. They can avoid everyone that has resumed normal life.

Let's not punish hard working families in their 30's, 40's, etc. that have a 99.99% chance of surviving the flu. Healthy people that get Corona Virus are not going to the hospital. They go home to bed for a few days. So overwhelming health care is not going to happen IF those at risk stay home until vaccines, etc.

Yes but ordinarily they don't need makeshift hospitals to take care of them because the regular hospitals are too overloaded.

[Aces4]

First, this is a "Flu". (Not the Plague). People dying every minute of something. They just aren't posting the score on every media outlet.

I understand if you are 85 or have COPD that you are afraid. But regular flu can kill you also. Falling in Shower will kill you.

I heard a perfectly logical solution to this.

Everyone that is not afraid can resume normal life. Everyone that is "afraid" can stay home as long as they want. They can avoid everyone that has resumed normal life.

Let's not punish hard working families in their 30's, 40's, etc. that have a 99.99% chance of surviving the flu. Healthy people that get Corona Virus are not going to the hospital. They go home to bed for a few days. So overwhelming health care is not going to happen IF those at risk stay home until vaccines, etc.

There was a thirty five year old young man, with no underlying health issues, who passed away a few days ago in our area and a healthy, vibrant 78 year old woman. He was married last August and she was healthy until...

They are only numbers to you, their families are devastated.

[DianeM]

More people may recover from the virus but not the ones who are old and or having pre- existing conditions so those who want things back to normal, are you willing to put money ahead of peoples lives?

Not ahead of lives but equally important. Not to be insensitive but in reality in a country of 330 million, the number of deaths is a drop in the bucket. New York is marking anyone who dies as corona related death. We truly have no real idea of the actual number. We cannot stay holed up forever.

[DianeM]

Yes but ordinarily they don't need makeshift hospitals to take care of them because the regular hospitals are too overloaded.

Which were not used in New York and are already being removed. Way overestimated number of beds and ventilators needed which is a wonderful thing

[vilger]

Interestingly, Sweden and Brazil kept their economies open during the COVD-19 pandemic and their numbers are dropping faster than ours. See Gateway Pundit, April 12, 2020. This would confirm epidemiologist, Knut Wittkowski's statement about herd immunity. The path we are following may lead to a new outbreak next fall. Check out the below video.

Perspectives on the Pandemic | Professor Knut Wittkowski | Episode 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=lGC5sGdz4kg&feature=emb_logo)

Sweden's numbers are dropping fast? Really? In fact they are increasing much faster than their neighbors.

[BAT777]

Is there spraying of insects in TV? 3 nights ago about 10:30 PM a truck in our Villas (very loud) drove up and down the streets and it was obvious some sort of spray was being done by the looks of things. If yes then exactly what is the spray and are we ever notified beforehand? We have been here 10 years and never saw this.

[sail33or]

People are always going point out the .001 percent who died. Every life is unique. So there is nothing to counter, what if the .001 percent was YOU.

I, also know many people who died in the last week of all sorts of issues. Those "other" issues are not preventing people from working.

Why is a flu death different than cancer??? Second hand smoke, Roundup, hairspray, etc., etc cause cancer. Why do people live in trailer homes when tornados kill them every week.

This has happened because many people believe what they see in the Media. Fear is the best news. If the Media said to buy toilet paper, that is what they do. When the Media says all clear, then, and only then will they believe it is okay. I will return to the squares as soon as there are bands. I am pretty sure they would appear tomorrow if allowed.

Again, if you are afraid, stay isolated. But why advocate everyone stay home. By the way. If you are going to the grocery store, you are basically a hypocrite if you advocate social distancing. Restaurants bad, Lowes/Walmart/Grocery Stores okay. Right.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

This has happened because many people believe what they see in the Media. Fear is the best news.

I've only been on this board a short while and this topic comes up a lot. There's an individual here that's an ardent defender of the media. I wonder if he'll chime in.

[coffeebean]

.........

The last thing I read is that the droplets ARE falling on the ground and we have to be aware that the soles of our shoes are contaminated. We should not be outside, especially in the grocery store, Walmart, etc, and go home with our shoes on. ....

Let me think about this for a minute.......I've assumed all along that the virus is all over floors because it remains suspended in the air for , what I have read and heard, 3 hours. Of course, I realize the bottoms of our shoes are contaminated with virus. My car and golf cart gas and brake pedals are also contaminated. Having said that, for the life of me, I can not imagine the virus can propel itself up from these surfaces and contaminate my eyes, nose or mouth. I may be wrong but I'll take my chances.

I am very aware that the floors are all contaminated with virus so I take special precautions when spot cleaning or washing the floors. Has anyone heard how long the virus remains viable on tile or laminate flooring? How about Chattahoochee river rock that is in my garage? Just wondering.

[Donb0975]

Open only the sports pools as there are no lounge chairs and thus you hopefully wouldn't have those that just want to sun out around the pool. One other thing is the sports pools are set up for lane swimming or walking and no guests, children allowed in sports pools.

[roscoguy]

First, this is a "Flu". (Not the Plague).

First, COVID-19 is NOT the flu.

Let's not punish hard working families in their 30's, 40's, etc. that have a 99.99% chance of surviving the flu.

Second, everybody has a 99.9% chance of surviving the flu as the mortality rate in the U.S. is about 0.1%, or 1 in 1,000 people that become infected. COVID-19 has an estimated mortality rate of 1% by the most optimistic estimates. This is, at minimum, 10 times as high as the flu, or 1 in every 100 who become infected.

Healthy people that get Corona Virus are not going to the hospital. They go home to bed for a few days.

Third, some young and very healthy people definitely are going to hospitals, and some are even dying. Plus, those healthy people that only stay in bed for a few days are very likely capable of infecting others. Where DO you get your news?

[roscoguy]

Ever heard of the Great Depression? There was mass suicides because it was so bad.

Another myth, I'm afraid. According to The History Channel, "Contrary to popular lore, there was no epidemic of suicides—let alone window-jumpings—in the wake of the Stock Market Crash of 1929. “In the United States the suicide wave that followed the stock market crash is also part of the legend of 1929. In fact, there was none,” wrote economist John Kenneth Galbraith in his book The Great Crash 1929."

1929 Stock Market Crash: Did Panicked Investors Really Jump From Windows? - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/news/stock-market-crash-suicides-wall-street-1929-great-depression)

[sallybowron]

Would it be different if this wasn't an election year?

Good question, I think it would have been:pray: different at least at the beginnig of the crisis.

[OhioBuckeye]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)

I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.

I seen on the news that the people in Mich. are protest the stay at home & it showed the streets somewhere
In Mich. & there were thousands of people running the streets. Is this going to be the end of mankind! Now it sounds like the govt. is going to open our country, that’s scary! Also just heard that the banks or the govt. is out of money for loans for businesses. We had better hope there is a god because it’ll take god to help us thru this. Be safe & God Bless!

[EdFNJ]

You are responsible for your own choices.
You are not in control of the choices made by others.
Act accordingly.
There, that wasn't so difficult, was it?

You missed the most important part of your monologue:

You are right to say you are responsible for your own choices however you must consider how YOUR CHOICES CAN AFFECT OTHERS.

The problem is the choice you are making DOES NOT ONLY AFFECT YOU it could possibly sicken or kill others. If it ONLY helped or hurt you personally I would give a hoot. Example: If you want to drink poison and kill yourself that's very sad but fine by me since it's YOUR CHOICE and won't hurt me, but if you want to kill yourself with a head-on collision into my car, then YOUR CHOICE AFFECTS ME.

So I believe the "it's my life and I'll do what I want" is actually quite selfish when it comes to something like this where your choice can spread all over and hurt others.

Remember, it's "WE" not "YOU". We are all involved in this. Consider others when you make YOUR choice whatever it is.

[Velvet]

Even if they open up the economy, we, seniors, don’t have to be afraid. We just have to remember how this virus works. I look at the virus as if it was a dust particle, it is not alive. The only way that it can hurt you is by getting inside your mouth, nose or eyes (as far as we know). So if you keep your hands clean, and soap is a great disinfectant, keep clothes and all surfaces clean and disinfected, then as soon as we are allowed to get them, wear the n95 mask and clear glasses, gloves or wash hands often - hubby literally walks around with disinfectant wipes he makes at home and carries in a zip lock bag. I can’t see how this virus can get to you. If worried about soles of shoes take off as soon as you can and wash them with soapy water.

I wash everything that comes in the house so that I don’t have to keep washing my hands after touching them. So I’ve never been this clean before, or my clothes and you need a magnifying glass to find a speck of dirt in my bathrooms. But it doesn’t take me that long, about 30 minutes a day of cleaning and hopefully they will have a vaccine for us in the near future.

[GoPacers]

Second, everybody has a 99.9% chance of surviving the flu as the mortality rate in the U.S. is about 0.1%, or 1 in 1,000 people that become infected. COVID-19 has an estimated mortality rate of 1% by the most optimistic estimates. This is, at minimum, 10 times as high as the flu, or 1 in every 100 who become infected.
?

There is NO DATA to support this statement. We have absolutely no idea how many people have been exposed to the virus at this point. We only know how many people have tested positive. Increased testing for the disease and an antibody test that helps us know how many people have been infected will give us the necessary data to accurately determine the denominator. Until then, statements like this are uninformed at best.

In addition, everybody does NOT have a 99.9% chance of surviving the flu. You're taking a population based probability and assigning it to each and every individual which is simply not how it works. If that were the case the mortality rates would be the same for all demographics.

[DianeM]

There is NO DATA to support this statement. We have absolutely no idea how many people have been exposed to the virus at this point. We only know how many people have tested positive. Increased testing for the disease and an antibody test that helps us know how many people have been infected will give us the necessary data to accurately determine the denominator. Until then, statements like this are uninformed at best.

You cannot test 330 million people, nor should you.
You’re still not shoving a stick up my nose for no good reason.
If I appear sick - fine. If not - don’t even think about it.

[blueash]

New York is marking anyone who dies as corona related death.

Do you have a source for that claim that every death in NY is being recorded as corona related? Because it is untrue AFAIK. I'll await your link. You might wish to consult the direction from the CDC, that CDC in Atlanta (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf), on their suggestion for recording causes of death during this pandemic.

[DianeM]

Do you have a source for that claim that every death in NY is being recorded as corona related? Because it is untrue AFAIK. I'll await your link. You might wish to consult the direction from the CDC, that CDC in Atlanta (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf), on their suggestion for recording causes of death during this pandemic.

Only my several friends who live there and relate info from local news stations. And I believe I recall Dr. Birx saying something of that nature last week. You can climb down now.

[Bogie Shooter]

Only my several friends who live there and relate info from local news stations. And I believe I recall Dr. Birx saying something of that nature last week. You can climb down now.

So it was second handed...……………………….

[44Apple]

“I want the opportunity to infect others!” Wait, that’s not in the Bill of Rights.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Widespread testing is a potent weapon in our arsenal. Here's some good news:

New saliva test for coronavirus could be game changer, limits exposure to workers (https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-saliva-test-could-game-124228075.html)

[yankygrl]

The country has to open sometime soon..i think a slow, gradual opening start with barbershops and nail salons were you can control numbers. Then slowly add clubs and activities that can definitely control number of participants. There will be no effect Immunization for months, even with a rushed procedure. Be smart, continue social distancing, wash your hands and hang out only with your most trusted friends.

[sail33or]

My statement of 99.99 percent will survive this flu(yes it is a flu)(repeat, it is a flu organism) pertains to people under 65 with NO underlying problems like COPD.

Of the 20,000 deaths in the US only a very few are under 65 with no underlying issues. (In a nation of 350,000,000.)

Got it.

Hysteria and fear are promoted but the numbers are out there. But if you are afraid of me then stay home and I will not come in contact with you.

[graciegirl]

The country has to open sometime soon..i think a slow, gradual opening start with barbershops and nail salons were you can control numbers. Then slowly add clubs and activities that can definitely control number of participants. There will be no effect Immunization for months, even with a rushed procedure. Be smart, continue social distancing, wash your hands and hang out only with your most trusted friends.

You would choose barbershops and nail salons, where someone is TOUCHING YOU???? Think about it... If they got it you got it. If you got it they got it? Not me. My appearance is not that important. I think something that isn't THAT close and personal is the place to start. Most people could go the rest of their life without a nail salon if they chose to.

[blueash]

My statement .. this flu(yes it is a flu)(repeat, it is a flu organism) ..
Got it.


Your repetition of factually ignorant statements does not benefit you in having the rest of anything you post be considered worthwhile.

Covid is NOT a flu, Repeat it is NOT a flu. Flu is shorthand for influenza. Influenza is a specific kind of virus. Corona is a different kind of virus. Your statement is as wrong as me typing a Chevy is a Ford repeat a Chevy is a Ford because both are cars. Got it?

[Velvet]

You would choose barbershops and nail salons, where someone is TOUCHING YOU???? Think about it... If they got it you got it. If you got it they got it? Not me. My appearance is not that important. I think something that isn't THAT close and personal is the place to start. Most people could go the rest of their life without a nail salon if they chose to.

Hey, I already do. After they fried my hair with hair color and gave me nail fungus with pedicure, I found I can do a pretty good job myself.

Hubby is different, I’m encouraging him to grow his hair into a male bun, but he is considering getting an electric clipper and a crew cut.

[capecoralbill]

The last thing I read is that the droplets ARE falling on the ground and we have to be aware that the soles of our shoes are contaminated. We should not be outside, especially in the grocery store, Walmart, etc, and go home with our shoes on.

This virus is NOT being managed. This country still has inadequate testing, no way to be able to get the data of what people have come into contact recently with a person who tests positive, and an inadequate work force at this time to contact these people, if there was a way to figure out who they are. Bill Gates, Apple, Google and governors of many states are working towards these goals, but the process has only begun (finally!) and not near any level where we can say it is being managed.

Personally, I don’t care what the government or businesses do or say. I will continue to wear masks, and gloves, soap down my hands, countertops, table, etc, and take all other necessary precautions until there is a vaccine in place and no new cases for 2 weeks.

Would you please rewrite the above, but just use one syllable words. I want to forward it to our President.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Would you please rewrite the above, but just use one syllable words. I want to forward it to our President.

And ask him about this - are we going to do this "way of doing it"?

“Sweden did that -- the herd. They called (it) the herd. Sweden is suffering very, very badly. It’s a way of doing it.” -Donald Trump

<AP source>: As virus deaths rise, Sweden sticks to '''low-scale''' lockdown (https://apnews.com/9feffbdb9bf2421f40f26ae89bc56b6c)

[rmd2]

Is there spraying of insects in TV? 3 nights ago about 10:30 PM a truck in our Villas (very loud) drove up and down the streets and it was obvious some sort of spray was being done by the looks of things. If yes then exactly what is the spray and are we ever notified beforehand? We have been here 10 years and never saw this.

If they are I am glad. They used to spray here and we never had mosquitoes. Then they stopped because environmentalists did not like it. So now we have many more mosquitoes including the West Nile Virus carriers. It's a lot safer for us if they spray!

[NavyVet]

The country has to open sometime soon..i think a slow, gradual opening start with barbershops and nail salons were you can control numbers. Then slowly add clubs and activities that can definitely control number of participants. There will be no effect Immunization for months, even with a rushed procedure. Be smart, continue social distancing, wash your hands and hang out only with your most trusted friends.

I don't even care about any of that optional stuff. Social, entertainment, etc are all non essential really. I will be happy just being able to have necessary medical appointments, etc not be cancelled, important health, maintenance and service type things, and the ability to go to a store and buy food that's actually in stock. If you don't have your health then the rest doesn't matter. It's all relative. Get the critical areas and jobs working first.
I will continue to use extreme caution because I have health issues and REALLY don't want to get sick and possibly DIE. JMHO Stay safe.

[Brownmoose13]

As far as the discussion of essential versus non-essential businesses I want to point out that EVERY business is essential to someone.....it is their way of making a living.
This is similar to the difference between minor and major surgery. If it is you it is minor surgery but if it is me it is major surgery.

[Brownmoose13]

You would choose barbershops and nail salons, where someone is TOUCHING YOU???? Think about it... If they got it you got it. If you got it they got it? Not me. My appearance is not that important. I think something that isn't THAT close and personal is the place to start. Most people could go the rest of their life without a nail salon if they chose to.

My wife and I know a young lady here that saved money for about 7 years to open her own nail salon which she did in early February and of course has been forced to shut down. She says that if she cannot open by around July 1 she will lose everything.
I need your help as to how to explain to her that her nail salon is a non essential business.
We should all try and put ourselves in someone elses shoes now and then

[Ginmato]

Crime is down worldwide.

[Nucky]

Crime is down worldwide.

So far. :boom:

[twoplanekid]

View a Morgan Stanley Research forecast attachment from the Morgan Stanley US Biotechnology Research Team

[roscoguy]

There is NO DATA to support this statement. We have absolutely no idea how many people have been exposed to the virus at this point. We only know how many people have tested positive. Increased testing for the disease and an antibody test that helps us know how many people have been infected will give us the necessary data to accurately determine the denominator. Until then, statements like this are uninformed at best.

There will never be complete, actual hard data, either for COVID-19 or the flu. It is impossible to completely measure and will always rely on extrapolation and estimates, which will change with time and reporting. Meanwhile, there are plenty of estimates available (google: COVID-19 mortality rate). From MarketWatch, for example, speaking of the worldwide deaths:

"Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the director general of the World Health Organization, said at a press briefing in Geneva. That’s more than previous estimates of around 2% and the influenza fatality rate of less than 1%."

The same report also admits:

"The WHO fatality rate estimate could be related to officials underestimating the number of actual cases. If infections are actually higher globally, the fatality rate would obviously fall. The more time asymptomatic people spend going about their daily lives, the more people can become infected."

Will coronavirus kill you? Why fatality rates for COVID-19 vary wildly depending on age, gender, medical history and country - MarketWatch (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-fatality-rates-vary-wildly-depending-on-age-gender-and-medical-history-some-patients-fare-much-worse-than-others-2020-02-26)

These estimates change continuously. According to the National Review,

"Dr. Anthony Fauci, longtime director of the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, has testified that COVID-19 could be ten times more lethal than influenza. The latter has about a 0.1 percent fatality rate, so that suggests that the COVID-19 rate is about 1 percent. Yet, Dr. Fauci has written (in the New England Journal of Medicine), that “the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%,” if we assume that “the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases.”

Coronavirus Pandemic: U.S. Fatality Rate Steady at About 1 Percent | National Review (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-pandemic-us-fatality-rate-steady-about-1-percent/#slide-1)

As more numbers comes in, and better estimates of non-symptomatic and/or unreported infections are included, the mortality rate will almost certainly drop. As of 4/15/2020 however, according to the CDC, there had been 24,582 deaths out of 605,390 "both confirmed and probable cases" in the U.S. & territories. Doing the math, this results in over 4% of reported cases. There would have to be nearly another 1.9 million additional, unreported cases to bring the mortality rate down below 1%.

Cases in U.S. | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html)


In addition, everybody does NOT have a 99.9% chance of surviving the flu. You're taking a population based probability and assigning it to each and every individual which is simply not how it works. If that were the case the mortality rates would be the same for all demographics.

By everybody, I am talking about the U.S. population in general, not individually. OK, statistically speaking, we all have a 99.9% chance of surviving the flu. Semantically better, but the same odds.

[Bogie Shooter]

The country has to open sometime soon..i think a slow, gradual opening start with barbershops and nail salons were you can control numbers. Then slowly add clubs and activities that can definitely control number of participants. There will be no effect Immunization for months, even with a rushed procedure. Be smart, continue social distancing, wash your hands and hang out only with your most trusted friends.

Numbers of what? Customers or those infected...……..how do you tell the difference?

[DianeM]

Do you have a source for that claim that every death in NY is being recorded as corona related? Because it is untrue AFAIK. I'll await your link. You might wish to consult the direction from the CDC, that CDC in Atlanta (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf), on their suggestion for recording causes of death during this pandemic.

You might want to consult any media station for confirmation. Fredo added 3700 people who had died of heart attacks, etc. because “they weren’t tested but probably would have died of corona virus anyway”. Great way to screw up statistics. Wonder if he gets a bounty if a body bag is used for a covid death instead of a heart attack.

[DianeM]

So it was second handed...……………………….

Not any more. Check any news station. Fredo switched 3700 deaths to covid.

[jswirs]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)

IMHO, I think everything should be open and operating as it was. Those that fear getting the virus should stay home. Of all those that get it, most will recover anyway.

I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.

I think everything should be open and operating as it was. Those that are afraid of getting the virus should stay home, of all those that contract the virus, most will recover at home. Not all that much different from the various pandemics we have survived through in the past. If you have taken care of yourself, watched what you put into you body and exercised daily, most likely you'll survive.

[roscoguy]

...99.99 percent will survive this flu(yes it is a flu)(repeat, it is a flu organism)...

According to WHOM? (repeat, whom?) I have found no references at all that claim it is a form of influenza. Some do say it is similar to several viruses which cause the common cold. Also this, according to Encyclopædia Britannica:

Influenza viruses belong to a virus family known as Orthomyxoviridae. COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2, which is classified in the family Coronaviridae.

What Is the Difference Between Influenza and COVID-19? | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/story/what-is-the-difference-between-influenza-and-covid-19)

Of the 20,000 deaths in the US only a very few are under 65 with no underlying issues. (In a nation of 350,000,000.

I'm not sure what you call "very few", although it's definitely true that mortality rates rise with age. It's also true that the number of U.S. adults having hypertension is rising (currently approximately 45%, according to the CDC). Add in diabetes, asthma, obesity, etc and it gets more difficult to find those "under 65 with no underlying issues". If you want to risk your life and those of your friends and family, that is your decision. Just stay away from me and mine. Maybe wear a sign...

[roscoguy]

Maybe wear a sign...

You may have misunderstood: this was a (semi-snarky) response to the part of sail33or's earlier post that advised that people still worried about COVID-19 "can avoid everyone that has resumed normal life" (also semi-snarky), but definitely not a literal suggestion. :icon_wink:


Seems to me I’ve heard of people being forced to wear signs before. How did that work out for German Jews?

Still, where did this come from??? :shocked:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

This is just my opinion, but each day I see the news the virus management seems better and better. I think any opening of the economy will be evaluated carefully each day and recalled if necessary.

This virus is unlike any virus that has come before it. The experts of the management team are learning new things every day and giving us the best information that they have at the time. Sometimes that conflicts with previously given information but that it because they are learning new things.

The president is putting together a task force to re-open the economy. That does not mean that they are planning on doing anything soon. I'm sure that when these two panels of experts decided that it is safe to open some things, they will begin opening certain businesses in some areas with restrictions.

I assume that places like Morgantown, West Virginia will be able to have some businesses open with restrictions before those same types of businesses will be able to open in New York City.

This idea of a rolling opening makes perfect sense in a country as large and diverse as ours. Sweden and Switzerland do not have the same issues that we have. They are very small countries and are very much the same throughout.

I believe that both the federal government and our state government, in fact, most state governments have done an excellent job in fighting this pandemic. I believe that they'll make the right decisions on what to open when.

[DianeM]

You may have misunderstood: this was a (semi-snarky) response to the part of sail33or's earlier post that advised that people still worried about COVID-19 "can avoid everyone that has resumed normal life" (also semi-snarky), but definitely not a literal suggestion. :icon_wink:




Still, where did this come from??? :shocked:

Your exact words - “Stay away from me. Maybe wear a sign”.

[Jazzman]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)

I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.

By the end of June current estimate is 27 million unemployed. COVID deaths projection by end of June 60,000 with that number expected to be revised downward on a weekly basis.

The pain and suffering associated with that number of unemployed will be with us for years and many of those unemployed will turn to drugs, alcohol, etc. the social consequences will be severe.

[Velvet]

Seems to me I’ve heard of people being forced to wear signs before. How did that work out for German Jews?

I’m ready to wear a sign, “Stay the f... away from me!”

[DianeM]

I’m ready to wear a sign, “Stay the f... away from me!”

If that gives you peace then go for it.

[Aces4]

I think everything should be open and operating as it was. Those that are afraid of getting the virus should stay home, of all those that contract the virus, most will recover at home. Not all that much different from the various pandemics we have survived through in the past. If you have taken care of yourself, watched what you put into you body and exercised daily, most likely you'll survive.

How many pandemics have you lived through, lol? You must be 1000 years old.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

This idea of a rolling opening makes perfect sense in a country as large and diverse as ours.

Winston, any idea when you'll be able to resume the Beatles group? I guess you won't need that bigger room now, right, as I'm assuming a lot of people will stay away indefinitely. It's going to be interesting to see how much momentum will be lost with all the Villages clubs. Inertia is a powerful thing.

Have you polled your members to see if they would come back, or is it too early for that? If I'm in TV, I'll be there on your reopening day!

///o-o\\\

[retiredguy123]

My concern is that, if you only open states that don't have many coronavirus cases, how do you prevent people from travelling to those states?

[Velvet]

If that gives you peace then go for it.

Lol, I am kidding, I think it is much easier to change your own behavior than other people’s.

But sometimes I would love to be like my mom. When the family went camping and there were mosquitoes around she’d step outside of the car and spray and spray and spray. I’d love to have can of anti-virus spray.

[Heyitsrick]

My concern is that, if you only open states that don't have many coronavirus cases, how do you prevent people from travelling to those states?

Notwithstanding it may sound facetious to say (not intended), but given that these states in question don't have many coronavirus cases, the assumption might be that not many are traveling to them. That said, there's always traveling through them, though.

[Number 10 GI]

We have to get the economy rolling again, the economy will only stand so much of this before it collapses. I would say most of the people living here do so from social security and investments. We got our statements for our IRA's the other day and WOW, we took a pretty good hit. There is no way you can live here just on SS so if your investments shrink what are you going to do? I do have a couple small pensions but if the economy gets bad enough even those might be reduced. With the whole world in the same boat as us we could possibly slide into a world wide depression if the situation is allowed to become worse. There are going to be a lot of small businesses that will fold and all those employees will be on unemployment. Most people work for small and medium businesses, not large corporations. With the potential of millions of people on unemployment and welfare where is the money going to come to pay for those social programs? Less spending equals less revenue, less revenue and there isn't enough money to pay for the aid.
I keep hearing as soon as we test everyone and find out who is infected then we can start opening the country up and go to work. This thought is a fallacy! There is close to 350 million people in the US, do you realize how long it will take to manufacture the tests, administer them and then get labs to provide the results? I have no idea because we don't have the infrastructure for something of this magnitude. OK so we test people and identify the sick ones and the uninfected ones. Two days later the uninfected ones pick up the virus and now what? Run a test on 350 million people every day to make sure we find all the infected people?
Let the younger people who aren't affected as much as us old folks get back to work and we stay at home until this blows over.
When the government runs out of money they will start to print more which will cause unbelievable inflation. The price for your $2.00 loaf of bread will rise due to the inflation and the value of the money will fall. Your investments/savings value won't increase and will be quickly depleted.
It's real easy to be retired drawing pensions and living off investments and demand that businesses stay closed whereas the working people who have mortgages, car payments, credit card bills and daily living expenses don't have that luxury. Watch some of the documentaries on the Great Depression with the soup lines and people living in tents. Are you comfortable with that, especially if you are standing in that soup line?

[DianeM]

We have to get the economy rolling again, the economy will only stand so much of this before it collapses. I would say most of the people living here do so from social security and investments. We got our statements for our IRA's the other day and WOW, we took a pretty good hit. There is no way you can live here just on SS so if your investments shrink what are you going to do? I do have a couple small pensions but if the economy gets bad enough even those might be reduced. With the whole world in the same boat as us we could possibly slide into a world wide depression if the situation is allowed to become worse. There are going to be a lot of small businesses that will fold and all those employees will be on unemployment. Most people work for small and medium businesses, not large corporations. With the potential of millions of people on unemployment and welfare where is the money going to come to pay for those social programs? Less spending equals less revenue, less revenue and there isn't enough money to pay for the aid.
I keep hearing as soon as we test everyone and find out who is infected then we can start opening the country up and go to work. This thought is a fallacy! There is close to 350 million people in the US, do you realize how long it will take to manufacture the tests, administer them and then get labs to provide the results? I have no idea because we don't have the infrastructure for something of this magnitude. OK so we test people and identify the sick ones and the uninfected ones. Two days later the uninfected ones pick up the virus and now what? Run a test on 350 million people every day to make sure we find all the infected people?
Let the younger people who aren't affected as much as us old folks get back to work and we stay at home until this blows over.
When the government runs out of money they will start to print more which will cause unbelievable inflation. The price for your $2.00 loaf of bread will rise due to the inflation and the value of the money will fall. Your investments/savings value won't increase and will be quickly depleted.
It's real easy to be retired drawing pensions and living off investments and demand that businesses stay closed whereas the working people who have mortgages, car payments, credit card bills and daily living expenses don't have that luxury. Watch some of the documentaries on the Great Depression with the soup lines and people living in tents. Are you comfortable with that, especially if you are standing in that soup line?

I so agree with you on the testing malarkey. One can be negative on Tuesday and positive on Thursday. We’re talking about those that test positive as if they have leprosy. At the end of the day, it’s a virus.

We have got to get life running again. Businesses need to open. We cannot live in exile much longer or we’ll be the United States of Venezuela.

[coffeebean]

I believe that both the federal government and our state government, in fact, most state governments have done an excellent job in fighting this pandemic. I believe that they'll make the right decisions on what to open when.

Trump was asked by a reporter what was done by the federal government in the month of February to prepare for this pandemic. He cut her off at the knees and answered her question with "A lot".

What kind of an answer is that? Honestly, what did our federal government do to prepare for this pandemic in February and the first two weeks of March? I wish our president was more specific with his answer. I'd like to know too.

[OhioBuckeye]

This is just my opinion, but each day I see the news the virus management seems better and better. I think any opening of the economy will be evaluated carefully each day and recalled if necessary.
I agree with you. There’s to much that we don’t know about the virus to criticize the govt. Just do as they ask. Just look at the Rep. & Dem. they can’t work together so we shouldn’t start sounding like we know how to handle this! Rep. & Dem. sound like we do here, making comments. To tough to explain, so I’m not going to criticize either party. Just do what you think you should do to be safe. If you’re out & about, stay the heck away from me. Don’t like what some people in Mich. are doing right now.

[OhioBuckeye]

Some social distancing may be needed into 2022 to keep coronavirus in check, new study says

Study sees need for some social distancing into 2022 to curb coronavirus (https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/14/some-social-distancing-may-be-needed-into-2022-to-keep-coronavirus-in-check-new-study-says/)
2 yrs. is a long time not to be able to hug your kids & grandkids! In 2 yrs. we could be all dead or bowing down to another country. Worse yet the whole world could be dead or we could be a World War with every country fighting each other.

[Yukon33]

It’s not that complicated.
Money or lives.
Their is no normal until Covid 19 is eradicated. To think otherwise is the thinking of a demented mind. :pray:
Lives lost how? From the virus or from suicide, depression and domestic violence from staying home and not working?

[Love2Swim]

I think everything should be open and operating as it was. Those that are afraid of getting the virus should stay home, of all those that contract the virus, most will recover at home. Not all that much different from the various pandemics we have survived through in the past. If you have taken care of yourself, watched what you put into you body and exercised daily, most likely you'll survive.

Boy,what a selfish attitude. News flash - not everyone has been imbued with good health, no matter how well they ate and exercised. There are cancer patients, people born with diabetes, all other sorts of other medically compromised people walking around that will not do well if they contract Covid - in fact many will die. They have to go in public for certain activities - doctor appointments for example, so it is impossible for them to avoid coming into contact with other people. If there are people who are asymptomatic and are also carrying the virus, they can be spreading it to others without realizing it.

[JoMar]

The body count will be the collateral damage to save the economy.....and for most here that is acceptable. We now wait for the Governor to apply the CDC recommendations laid out this afternoon. Will be interesting.

[Decadeofdave]

I am going to do what I always have done to avoid the flu, wash hands, do not touch public handles and doors, public tables etc. Think like a germaphobe, don't get near a close talker. Sanitize your hands when you are out and about all day. Common sense is at least 75% percent of the solution

[DianeM]

The body count will be the collateral damage to save the economy.....and for most here that is acceptable. We now wait for the Governor to apply the CDC recommendations laid out this afternoon. Will be interesting.

Not acceptable - loss of any life is sad - but inevitable. People do need to earn the funds to support themselves and their families. I suspect we’ll open up some around May 1st. Really the recommendations are no big thing for first wave - social distancing, no crowds over 10, etc.

[twoplanekid]

The body count will be the collateral damage to save the economy.....and for most here that is acceptable. We now wait for the Governor to apply the CDC recommendations laid out this afternoon. Will be interesting.

A lot of collateral damage may be taking place now while many are waiting to see doctors and have surgeries preformed. How many have died or will die because of medical treatment delays caused by this lockdown. Yes, there are many tradeoffs to be considered as deaths can occur in both scenarios.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

The body count will be the collateral damage to save the economy.....and for most here that is acceptable.

Jury's still out on "acceptable," but what a chilling truth. This is the purple elephant in the room. I believe the nation has concluded that sacrificing more lives to the virus serves the greater good of saving the economy and our way of life, as tragic as that is. But nobody has actually articulated it that way yet as far as I know. Clearly a challenging time to be alive. I for one never thought our government would ever be faced with such a ghastly choice.

As Louisiana Senator John Kennedy said the other day, "we can't burn down the village to save it."

[Koapaka]

And when you choose correctly, it works out. When you choose incorrectly, it is considered "thinning of the herd". How ANYONE that is retired, does not have to work for a living considers ANY thing as "REQUIRED" or "Essential" is beyond me. But ya know what, when it is all said and done, those idiots will be far less for those of us that took it seriously enough to deal with next "crisis dejour".

[DianeM]

And when you choose correctly, it works out. When you choose incorrectly, it is considered "thinning of the herd". How ANYONE that is retired, does not have to work for a living considers ANY thing as "REQUIRED" or "Essential" is beyond me. But ya know what, when it is all said and done, those idiots will be far less for those of us that took it seriously enough to deal with next "crisis dejour".

Well I consider doctors, nurses, truck drivers, farmers, and supermarket workers to be pretty essential. I also think food and medications are required. I don’t think those of us with those same beliefs are idiots.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I do not believe any one of us wish to continue to stay home.
We are all missing out on an active life and miss our family and friends.

Many of us in T.V. are higher risk due to our age and many of us have medical conditions that add to the risk.

So when life starts back up I would still be very cautious due to the higher risk.

A thousand times this - and multiply by the number of people in this country who will err on the side of caution.

There's a guy in Florida who is pretty smart - he's former military, former paramilitary, former mercenary, hunter, full-bearded redneck, self-sufficient for himself and his family - who has a pretty insightful take on this situation:

Let's talk about reopening the economy.... - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhf9ktqzxgY&feature=share)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And when you choose correctly, it works out. When you choose incorrectly, it is considered "thinning of the herd". How ANYONE that is retired, does not have to work for a living considers ANY thing as "REQUIRED" or "Essential" is beyond me. But ya know what, when it is all said and done, those idiots will be far less for those of us that took it seriously enough to deal with next "crisis dejour".

Being a caretaker for an invalid would make a retired person "essential."

Being someone who does the grocery shopping for the family is "essential."

Being someone who meets with the contractor to repair a roof broken when a tree branch fell through it would be "essential."

There are a myriad of things that retired people do, that is considered "essential" and necessary for them to do. Going to the hospital to have a chemo treatment, or to the dialysis center for a treatment, donating blood, making masks to donate to the essential WORKERS...

Do you really feel that retired people should just curl up and die, because they aren't earning a paycheck? Do you truly have that much contempt for the elderly?

[Koapaka]

Well I consider doctors, nurses, truck drivers, farmers, and supermarket workers to be pretty essential. I also think food and medications are required. I don’t think those of us with those same beliefs are idiots.

And your selective reading befuddles me...I said THOSE OF US RETIRED, WITHOUT NEED TO BE OUT THERE!!! I am trying hard to ensure those of us that HAVE NO BUSINESS exposing those that are SAVING us all as essential workers are PROTECTED to the MAXIMUM extent possible! REREAD my post! The NEED to be out there and the WANT to not be stuck at home are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ISSUES!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In the Villages it might be acceptable to sacrifice lives for the economy. But the Nation's economy will tank if the country is re-opened too soon. Why? Because running stores that are open for business is more expensive than running buildings with businesses that are closed. If people are too afraid to go shopping, because you opened while people are still dying and the number of diagnoses is increasing, these businesses will stand open - paying employees who are now forced to come to work because their employer is no longer getting financial relief from the government, and therefore they must re-open to empty aisles.

Small businesses will cease to exist. They won't be capable of covering the expense of being open, and no one willing to congregate and bring in the profits they had before the virus hit.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

And when you choose correctly, it works out. When you choose incorrectly, it is considered "thinning of the herd".

Do you mean "herd immunity"?

[Koapaka]

In the Villages it might be acceptable to sacrifice lives for the economy. But the Nation's economy will tank if the country is re-opened too soon. Why? Because running stores that are open for business is more expensive than running buildings with businesses that are closed. If people are too afraid to go shopping, because you opened while people are still dying and the number of diagnoses is increasing, these businesses will stand open - paying employees who are now forced to come to work because their employer is no longer getting financial relief from the government, and therefore they must re-open to empty aisles.

Small businesses will cease to exist. They won't be capable of covering the expense of being open, and no one willing to congregate and bring in the profits they had before the virus hit.

Oh, you can order DAILY and do what you can to support/help small businesses...but wanting to "be out and about because you don't like being cooped up at home" is selfish IMHO! You qualify for a "stimulus check" you do not need, DONATE IT! ORDER from a business that can use the work now to stay afloat! Just whining about being "locked up and not being able to do what you want"....BS!

[Koapaka]

Well I consider doctors, nurses, truck drivers, farmers, and supermarket workers to be pretty essential. I also think food and medications are required. I don’t think those of us with those same beliefs are idiots.

And they do NOT fit into the "retired with no need to go out" do they????

[Fredster]

And when you choose correctly, it works out. When you choose incorrectly, it is considered "thinning of the herd". How ANYONE that is retired, does not have to work for a living considers ANY thing as "REQUIRED" or "Essential" is beyond me. But ya know what, when it is all said and done, those idiots will be far less for those of us that took it seriously enough to deal with next "crisis dejour".

Your knowledge seems very limited, for example I’m retired, don’t have to work for a living, but I had to have an INR test for the blood thinner I’m taking yesterday which is pretty essential. Plus I have to return next week for a retest. And I’m not the only one in need of ongoing medical tests.
It really bothers me when a shortsighted person makes idiotic statements!

[JimJohnson]

The plan is to cull the rolls of Medicare and Social Security.

[Two Bills]

Can we do roundabouts now? :duck:

[Kgcetm]

I agree with you. When the governors decide to "take charge" we're going to get too many opening dates and an increase in infections related to travel. I don't understand how New York, California, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky announced they will work toward reopening their states when their states continue to struggle with the basic issues of increasing infections, few hospital beds, exhausted care givers and insufficient supplies. While that's a good number of governors, I think all 50 need to agree on when and what the reopening of America is going to look like. I don't want to become infected because the governor of Michigan thinks it's safe to reopen and they are not. Certainly travel beyond your geographic are should be limited.

[TimeForChange]

I don't think it matters. As I see it, that man in the White House can't win (against the virus) either way - he either allows many more people to get sick and die or he destroys the economy and people's livelihoods. He's somehow managed to save face for three years, let's hope he finds a trick to get us out of this mess. But barring a cure or vaccine, I can't see what it would be.

To the others: So far it sounds like the consensus is reopen the country and sacrifice lives in a sort of cost/benefit analysis.

If saving face is having the lowest unemployment rate in fifty years, highest GDP, more minority's working than ever. Companies moving back to the US from other countries, trade embargo's fixed with Mexico, Canada, China, military rebuilt etc. then I like the way he is "saving face". Without an economy and people working we have no Country and he knows that just like if you don't have a border you have no country. This virus is a war and each day he is making gains on defeating it. He did not cause the virus but he is dealing with it and will win!

[ficoguy]

We're 30 days out from becoming a third world country with food shortages and riots. Patience is wearing thin. You can't keep extending the lockdown while our politicians freely travel back and forth from DC to their homes and estates. Keep the economy shut down and there won't be much of an economy to re-open. And then we will be standing in soup and breadlines waiting for our daily sustenance from - wait for it - THE GOVERNMENT!

[Klatu]

Given the widespread devastation to the economy which is inevitable in such a pandemic, I find the plan to gradually reopen the country encouraging.

States that are minimally infected (the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana, etc.) or have a declining number of infections and hospitalizations can, at the direction of the governor, begin to move through Phase One of the plan. There are safeguards built in to each phase and while there will be people violating those here and there, they seem sound enough. Leaving the economy to decline and holding everyone back from reopening until the sickest hotspot has improved will build in a set of problems that could take decades to solve.

Interestingly, the group that is not heavily involved in getting back to "normal" quickly is the "most vulnerable." That's us, folks. We will not be out and about like the old days YET. And when we do move in that direction, there will be some big challenges such as,

The squares. How are you going to maintain social distancing with couples crowding to dance, line dancers, sitting together etc. I have observed that some folks seem to have a really, really hard time estimating what six feet is. They crowd together about four feet apart, no mask and talking for long periods of time.

The bars. Local bars are not huge. How is Cody's going to spread out seating without losing half their space and half their revenues? Ditto restaurants.

Stores. Similar to bars: they are not huge. Put someone in any of the clothing stores and they are going to be very close to other shoppers.

On a more positive note, when we are able to get antibody testing, we can see who is safe to move about and not be infected or infect others. Also, there will be a vaccine. At that point we will truly be at the new normal. Then we will just have to pray China doesn't share another of their little microbial gifts with us.

[stadry]

beginning to understand the 'living in a bubble' condition,,, no one has to work in tv - better make that, few need to work for financial reasons,,, a large majority ( & this is a wag ) have pensions/retirements in some way connected to government ( either fed, state, or municipal - teachers, dot's, quasi-public, even lotteries, etc ),,, they think they'll be unaffected financially to the extent the working public is experiencing.

HAH ! not so. while we sit back sheltering-in-place, our country's economic life's in shambles. governments have no $ - they take it from those who pay taxes, skim off enough to pay salaries, & return the rest thru grants. ny, il, ca, mi, pa, ct - they're bankrupt while having not yet filed. cities declare bankruptcy & DO file. yet everyone thinks we can keep on keepin' on. 1 thing i've learned - everyone's more than willing to hold hostage their children's & grandchildren's financial future. to me, clearly there is no solid answer other than the path suggested last evening

let those state governors govern - open their states for business while others keep their's closeted. in michigan, 1 can buy marijuana but not seeds for a garden ? that's lunacy. nj's governor remarks the freedoms of the u s constitution are 'above his pay grade.' horse=puckey !!!

yes, more will die. maybe even me but i've had a good life. since 64-67, have always thought today's a good day to die. how many more will die than the # while if staying sheltered ? only speculation.

reopening our country is a cost of freedom - the freedom to keep our country as we know it.

i think i better shut up now - enjoy your day !

[Bay Kid]

Our small governments are enjoying having so much power. But. Our VA. governor tells people they can't have a hair cut, but every time he talks in public he has a fresh cut... you can't but I will....

[billethkid]

Maybe using the way it was is no longer an appropriate goal.
In the short run (3-12 months?) lesser capacity may be the rule of the day.
Like the restaurants and some businesses have learned to have revenue....yes significantly reduced but none the less....some revenue with curb side and delivery service.
They will also figure out how to use their interior space.....like the pick up and delivery.....adding a 40% (?) internal seating is better than zero seating in the short term.

As Dr. Fauci has said it is not like turning on the light switch and all is well. There will be a gradual re-opening.....for some they will be back to a revenue level they experienced when they first opened for business.

The creative will figure how to operate within the new level of business.

[Nucky]

beginning to understand the 'living in a bubble' condition,,, no one has to work in tv - better make that, few need to work for financial reasons,,, a large majority ( & this is a wag ) have pensions/retirements in some way connected to government ( either fed, state, or municipal - teachers, dot's, quasi-public, even lotteries, etc ),,, they think they'll be unaffected financially to the extent the working public is experiencing.

HAH ! not so. while we sit back sheltering-in-place, our country's economic life's in shambles. governments have no $ - they take it from those who pay taxes, skim off enough to pay salaries, & return the rest thru grants. ny, il, ca, mi, pa, ct - they're bankrupt while having not yet filed. cities declare bankruptcy & DO file. yet everyone thinks we can keep on keepin' on. 1 thing i've learned - everyone's more than willing to hold hostage their children's & grandchildren's financial future. to me, clearly there is no solid answer other than the path suggested last evening

let those state governors govern - open their states for business while others keep their's closeted. in michigan, 1 can buy marijuana but not seeds for a garden ? that's lunacy. nj's governor remarks the freedoms of the u s constitution are 'above his pay grade.' horse=puckey !!!

yes, more will die. maybe even me but i've had a good life. since 64-67, have always thought today's a good day to die. how many more will die than the # while if staying sheltered ? only speculation.

reopening our country is a cost of freedom - the freedom to keep our country as we know it.

i think i better shut up now - enjoy your day !

I Like Your Post A Whole Lot. Truly the first time I saw the N.J. guy say that the U.S. Constitution is above his pay grade it NOTHING but showed me what my family who we have in Jersey have been telling me. They are rudderless.

I'm not ready to check out yet but I may have no say in the matter if I get nervous and jerky and don't do the thing that are best for me when the time is good. I don't NEED the Square, I Love the Pool But I'll be fine if i miss out on it. I'm mainly at peace the majority of the time. I think we all have our moments. If today is my day to go when then so be it. I hope it's not but it may not be my call unless I do something stupid. I trying to move slowly and making only smart moves.

Horse Puckey! Thats a good one Sherman Potter! :1rotfl:

For me you never have to shut up now! Let 'Er Rip! :mademyday: There is a lot of truth in your post. :clap2::clap2:

[GoodLife]

Dang, hate it when I'm right

From the Opening up America Plan

Phase two:

All vulnerable individuals should continue to shelter in place.

Phase three:

Vulnerable individuals can resume public interactions, but should continue social distancing.

Vulnerable individuals are defined as elderly, or those with underlying health conditions

Opening Up America Again | Hospital | Patient (https://www.scribd.com/document/456768927/Opening-Up-America-Again#from_embed)

[stan the man]

Very easy to give advice. If you're right you can run around and tell everybody that's exactly what I said. If you're wrong you just say nothing or if challenged about your remarks just say should never asked me I'm not in charge

[ficoguy]

The way I see it, underlying health issues have been a big factor in those who contract it and have fatal results. 73% of those needing hospitalization ( and yes, a % of those will die ) have had some predecessor issues - obesity, diabetes, cardiac issues, lung disease, etc.. There is no nice way to avoid the fact that no matter what we do people will die from this. The original estimate was 2 million Americans would die - now its projected to be less than 200,000. How long do you keep a nation of 330 million locked down for an illness that will be fatal to .06% ( six tenths of one percent ) of the populace? In the US, of course, we believe every life is worth saving ( except for the 60,000 or so abortions a year ). But society has always made trade-offs. You send troops into battle knowing that a percentage will not return. The mortality rate for D-Day was 3.6% - Eisenhower expected 15% or more.

[Heyitsrick]

If you haven't looked at the Johns Hopkins Covid-19 site recently, they've included a US map now. The US map will break out reports by counties.

Here's the current Sumter County Covid-19 status page, for example:

Sumter County Covid-19 Status Page (https://bao.arcgis.com/covid-19/jhu/county/12119.html)

Main Johns Hopkins Covid United States map:

Johns Hopkins United States Covid-19 Map (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map)

[DianeM]

I agree with you. When the governors decide to "take charge" we're going to get too many opening dates and an increase in infections related to travel. I don't understand how New York, California, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky announced they will work toward reopening their states when their states continue to struggle with the basic issues of increasing infections, few hospital beds, exhausted care givers and insufficient supplies. While that's a good number of governors, I think all 50 need to agree on when and what the reopening of America is going to look like. I don't want to become infected because the governor of Michigan thinks it's safe to reopen and they are not. Certainly travel beyond your geographic are should be limited.

We have to start getting back to some state of normalcy. From what I read and heard, I believe there are parameters to be reached before a state can reopen. I also think I heard that states can open by county based on cases.

I see no need for all 50 governors to have to agree at the same time for reopening. Montana has more horses than people with very very little infections so they should open if they wish. New York is getting better but is certainly not ready for opening. Each individual governor knows their state so we have to hope they know what they’re doing.

[DianeM]

And your selective reading befuddles me...I said THOSE OF US RETIRED, WITHOUT NEED TO BE OUT THERE!!! I am trying hard to ensure those of us that HAVE NO BUSINESS exposing those that are SAVING us all as essential workers are PROTECTED to the MAXIMUM extent possible! REREAD my post! The NEED to be out there and the WANT to not be stuck at home are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ISSUES!

Retired doesn’t mean dead. We need sunshine and to move. We cannot stay indoors like houseplants. We still have lives and there is nothing more essential and required than that. Take basic precautions of distancing and masks and we can leave home.

[MisDav]

I like your plan.

[MisDav]

I've been wondering the same thing.

[roscoguy]

There's a guy in Florida who is pretty smart - he's former military, former paramilitary, former mercenary, hunter, full-bearded redneck, self-sufficient for himself and his family - who has a pretty insightful take on this situation:

Let's talk about reopening the economy.... - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhf9ktqzxgY&feature=share)

Yeah, he has quite a few points & makes good sense. Almost all of it has also been said here and on television, mostly on what has been derisively labeled "mainstream media" though. I somewhat disagree with his opinion that the 'failures will be publicized.' In some places, yeah; in others, the spin machine will go into turbo mode to gloss over those failures.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

We have to start getting back to some state of normalcy. From what I read and heard, I believe there are parameters to be reached before a state can reopen. I also think I heard that states can open by county based on cases.

I see no need for all 50 governors to have to agree at the same time for reopening. Montana has more horses than people with very very little infections so they should open if they wish. New York is getting better but is certainly not ready for opening. Each individual governor knows their state so we have to hope they know what they’re doing.

How do you prevent people in the MORE restricted states, from turning out in droves to the LESS restricted states? That didn't go so well for the kids who ended up with the virus because Florida chose not to close their beaches until after the infection had spread to vacationers.

This is -why- it has to be a nationwide effort. You can't say "You can't walk on the streets but you may leave the state if you want" to one state, and "you can walk on the streets and play bingo and go to church and hang out on the beach" in another state, and not expect the virus to just keep spreading.

Just like gun laws - if one state says "nope can't buy that type of weapon in this state" and anyone can cross the border and buy that type of weapon in the next state, there is NOTHING stopping everyone in the first state from owning that type of weapon.

Now consider the weapon is the coronavirus, and consider that anyone who possesses it, is incapable of controlling their trigger finger.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'd like to add for those complaining about being stuck inside 24/7:

The only people who are stuck inside 24/7 are people who are physically incapable of leaving their dwelling. You have a front yard. You have a driveway. Most of you have at least one golf cart. Some of you have bicycles. CV owners have enclosed back yards.

There is nothing stopping ANY of you from leaving your houses and getting some fresh air and sunshine. Even the restrictions allow for exercise. Just keep your distance from everyone else, and you are free to move around as much as you'd like.

I'm out in the garden, or walking, or both, every single day that I'm not working. My tan is darker in the last week, than it has been for the entire time since I moved here this past November.

[DianeM]

How do you prevent people in the MORE restricted states, from turning out in droves to the LESS restricted states? That didn't go so well for the kids who ended up with the virus because Florida chose not to close their beaches until after the infection had spread to vacationers.

This is -why- it has to be a nationwide effort. You can't say "You can't walk on the streets but you may leave the state if you want" to one state, and "you can walk on the streets and play bingo and go to church and hang out on the beach" in another state, and not expect the virus to just keep spreading.

Just like gun laws - if one state says "nope can't buy that type of weapon in this state" and anyone can cross the border and buy that type of weapon in the next state, there is NOTHING stopping everyone in the first state from owning that type of weapon.

Now consider the weapon is the coronavirus, and consider that anyone who possesses it, is incapable of controlling their trigger finger.

We’ll just agree to disagree. This is not a “one size fits all” situation

[DianeM]

I'd like to add for those complaining about being stuck inside 24/7:

The only people who are stuck inside 24/7 are people who are physically incapable of leaving their dwelling. You have a front yard. You have a driveway. Most of you have at least one golf cart. Some of you have bicycles. CV owners have enclosed back yards.

There is nothing stopping ANY of you from leaving your houses and getting some fresh air and sunshine. Even the restrictions allow for exercise. Just keep your distance from everyone else, and you are free to move around as much as you'd like.

I'm out in the garden, or walking, or both, every single day that I'm not working. My tan is darker in the last week, than it has been for the entire time since I moved here this past November.

Do people really sit in their front yard or driveways? Never saw that here or on Long Island. You learn every day, I use my lanai.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Do people really sit in their front yard or driveways? Never saw that here or on Long Island. You learn every day, I use my lanai.

Around here, yes. They have little tables and chairs in front of their houses on pavement, some with picnic table umbrellas, some without. Some folks have a bench out front that they sit on. I've seen a few people out on blankets on the grass sunning themselves in their bathing suits (not many, not often, but I have seen them). Maybe your part of the Villages is secluded and people prefer to wall themselves from their neighbors all the time. But on my side of the Villages we are a pretty close community. It's not even unheard of for one neighbor to be hanging out on a bench next door to them, simply because they don't HAVE a bench of their own and want to catch a few rays in comfort.

[Bogie Shooter]

Do people really sit in their front yard or driveways? Never saw that here or on Long Island. You learn every day, I use my lanai.

Seeing it more and more. Way to interact at a distance.
More to learn every day...……………………….

[DianeM]

Around here, yes. They have little tables and chairs in front of their houses on pavement, some with picnic table umbrellas, some without. Some folks have a bench out front that they sit on. I've seen a few people out on blankets on the grass sunning themselves in their bathing suits (not many, not often, but I have seen them). Maybe your part of the Villages is secluded and people prefer to wall themselves from their neighbors all the time. But on my side of the Villages we are a pretty close community. It's not even unheard of for one neighbor to be hanging out on a bench next door to them, simply because they don't HAVE a bench of their own and want to catch a few rays in comfort.

I’ve seen a few of those little tables and chairs and thought they were for decoration. That or really nosy people. Lol.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Seeing it more and more. Way to interact at a distance.
More to learn every day...……………………….

Welcome to Orange Blossom, where this kind of thing isn't uncommon. We meet in the middle of the road sometimes, and just hang out there talking about how the tenant in the green house 2 doors down has done such a fine job with their begonias. And driveway parties that aren't always scheduled - sometimes just a few of us end up coming up the walk to say hi, and we all end up hanging around on the driveway for a half hour.

At a safe distance now, but the phenomenon of spontaneously congregating in the front of the dwelling is pretty common here.

[DianeM]

Welcome to Orange Blossom, where this kind of thing isn't uncommon. We meet in the middle of the road sometimes, and just hang out there talking about how the tenant in the green house 2 doors down has done such a fine job with their begonias. And driveway parties that aren't always scheduled - sometimes just a few of us end up coming up the walk to say hi, and we all end up hanging around on the driveway for a half hour.

At a safe distance now, but the phenomenon of spontaneously congregating in the front of the dwelling is pretty common here.

Occasionally there are garage parties which I don’t get at all. Why on earth would I want to sit in a concrete box in 90 degree weather? Lol.

[Number 10 GI]

Just like gun laws - if one state says "nope can't buy that type of weapon in this state" and anyone can cross the border and buy that type of weapon in the next state, there is NOTHING stopping everyone in the first state from owning that type of weapon.

Under federal law an individual cannot go to another state and legally purchase a gun if they are banned from owning that gun in their home state. Gun dealers have access to data on each state to insure the sale is legal. An individual is allowed to purchase a long gun, rifle or shotgun, in another state if it is not banned from ownership in the buyer's home state.

In addition an individual cannot legally purchase a hand gun in another state and take possession of it there. They can purchase the handgun and the selling gun dealer is required to ship it to a federally licensed dealer in the purchaser's home state where the handgun will be transferred to the buyer after applicable background checks are completed. Again if the gun is banned that state the buyer cannot take possession of it and the gun dealer will have to return it to the selling dealer.

Yes, an individual can go to another state and possibly buy a gun from a private person that the buyer cannot own in their home state. But, the seller and buyer both have committed a federal felony and if caught would spend years in a federal prison. My source, I held a federal gun dealer license in the past, your source is misinformed or lying.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

You can't say "You can't walk on the streets but you may leave the state if you want" to one state, and "you can walk on the streets and play bingo and go to church and hang out on the beach" in another state, and not expect the virus to just keep spreading.

Whether it's a nationwide guideline or a state-by-state process, either way, I think we all know the virus will "just keep spreading." That's the cost/benefit analysis we've been talking about - the "Sophie's Choice" of sacrificing lives for the greater good of maintaining people's livelihoods and way of life - because there appears to be no other alternative unfortunately. It's the pink elephant in the living room our leaders pretend isn't there and refuse to talk about, understandably.

Few among us ever expected to be faced with an existential crisis and have to make such a terrible choice in our lifetime, but here we are.

It's not realistic to assume the virus won't keep spreading when we reopen the country in the absence of a vaccine or effective treatment. There will be people out there who are asymptomatic and infected. And that's what caused the virus to catch fire in the first place.

I'm wondering how much panic is going to ensue when we're in a movie theater or Villages rec center and someone coughs or sneezes.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Under federal law an individual cannot go to another state and legally purchase a gun if they are banned from owning that gun in their home state. Gun dealers have access to data on each state to insure the sale is legal. An individual is allowed to purchase a long gun, rifle or shotgun, in another state if it is not banned from ownership in the buyer's home state.

In addition an individual cannot legally purchase a hand gun in another state and take possession of it there. They can purchase the handgun and the selling gun dealer is required to ship it to a federally licensed dealer in the purchaser's home state where the handgun will be transferred to the buyer after applicable background checks are completed. Again if the gun is banned that state the buyer cannot take possession of it and the gun dealer will have to return it to the selling dealer.

Yes, an individual can go to another state and possibly buy a gun from a private person that the buyer cannot own in their home state. But, the seller and buyer both have committed a federal felony and if caught would spend years in a federal prison. My source, I held a federal gun dealer license in the past, your source is misinformed or lying.

You and what army are actively, physically, preventing anyone from doing it? Can it even be prevented at all, with regulation? The question is - IS it being done, with regards to COVID-19?

This isn't about guns. It's about social distancing, washing hands, trying not to congregate if it can be avoided, when your state has just opened one of the two primary tourist attractions in the state's existence.

It's like, if the governor tells Disney World "go ahead, open up" tomorrow. TOMORROW. And Disney says "woah awesome, hotels, trams, rides, sidewalks, attractions - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!" and then they put a sign on the gate that says "please respect social distancing."

Not Gonna Happen.

People will either come in droves, ignore social distancing, and give the virus to the employees - who will spread it to their families, who will spread it to the supermarkets, who will spread it to strangers - which is how this whirlwind started in the first place...

Or

They will avoid these places like the plague - and since the places all opened for business, it also means they are now staffed, and have to pay their staff, the lights are all one, the rides are all powered up, the hotel housekeeping folks are all lined up with freshly washed linens and the scones for the free breakfast buffet are thawing out in the fridge - but have no revenue coming in with which to pay for all this.

So you're going to end up with a fresh new batch of sick and dead people

OR

You're gonna end up with a lot of bankrupt stores.

All because one tourist attraction opened up too soon. Just like the beaches are opened to the public too soon, without ANY possible ability to control the crowds.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Whether it's a nationwide guideline or a state-by-state process, either way, I think we all know the virus will "just keep spreading." That's the cost/benefit analysis we've been talking about - the "Sophie's Choice" of sacrificing lives for the greater good of maintaining people's livelihoods and way of life - because there appears to be no other alternative unfortunately. It's the pink elephant in the living room our leaders pretend isn't there and refuse to talk about, understandably.

Few among us ever expected to be faced with an existential crisis and have to make such a terrible choice in our lifetime, but here we are.

It's not realistic to assume the virus won't keep spreading when we reopen the country in the absence of a vaccine or effective treatment. There will be people out there who are asymptomatic and infected. And that's what caused the virus to catch fire in the first place.

I'm wondering how much panic is going to ensue when we're in a movie theater or Villages rec center and someone coughs or sneezes.

I'm wondering how many customers will be willing to buy a ticket and go INTO the theatre, knowing that their movie might cause their death.

[Beyond The Wall]

From what I understand, our country is preparing to reopen soon, perhaps on a "rolling" basis, before there's an effective treatment or vaccine for Covid-19. Testing is also projected to remain difficult to get. I'm curious how you all will respond to the call to resume our activities under these conditions.

If the virus is still lurking and we have no weapons against it other than masks, alcohol and distancing, will you go back to your restaurants, town squares, the rec centers for card games, mahjong, jam sessions, Beatles group, ceramics, wood shop, etc.? Or will you continue to stay at home? I'm surprised TV's powers that be haven't polled the community on this important question. (Note to Winston: have you asked your members if they will indeed show up?)

I just don't see the logic in unleashing us prematurely. If the virus is still out there, large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people if you prefer, will continue to contract it and pass it on. And that's the situation that got us into this mess in the first place. Even though the virus was not widespread, there was enough of it to allow it to spread exponentially. What makes us think the same thing won't happen again? It probably will, and that's the set up for the "second wave" we've been hearing about.

So why would we want to make a bad situation worse? And why would the current administration want to commit political suicide in the process?

I just don't get it. Can anyone shed some light? What a Sophie's Choice on the part of our leaders on both sides, huh? Either let the economy crumble and the population go mad or kill off a segment of our citizenry.
"unleashing us"?! No one is going to force anyone to go and do any activity they dont want to or feel safe doing. Some of the areas that were closed was complete over kill. The pools for example. It would have made more sense to remove 1/3 of the chairs, space them a little more apart , then to shut them down. It and is complete overkill. Unleash! Please do!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

"unleashing us"?! No one is going to force anyone to go and do any activity they dont want to or feel safe doing. Some of the areas that were closed was complete over kill. The pools for example. It would have made more sense to remove 1/3 of the chairs, space them a little more apart , then to shut them down. It and is complete overkill. Unleash! Please do!

I think this might have solved some of the problem. Enforcing the ID card rules at the pools would help. And spacing the chairs out and not ALLOWING people to clump them together unless they have the same address would help. I mean taking it absolutely seriously. The pool people would need to act as pool police - you're welcome to sit. OVER THERE. Or you can leave. Your choice.

I think it's reasonable.

[Velvet]

Not going to happen. Last day I was at the pool there was a pool party in the water, drinking alcohol, spitting at each other... just having fun! You’d need a pool guard at every pool all the time it was open.

[graciegirl]

I think this might have solved some of the problem. Enforcing the ID card rules at the pools would help. And spacing the chairs out and not ALLOWING people to clump them together unless they have the same address would help. I mean taking it absolutely seriously. The pool people would need to act as pool police - you're welcome to sit. OVER THERE. Or you can leave. Your choice.

I think it's reasonable.

I would not bathe with a person who might have tuberculosis and I would not swim with someone who might have Covid-19. Immersing yourself in salt water doesn't seem like a safe thing to do in these germy times.

[coffeebean]

Retired doesn’t mean dead. We need sunshine and to move. We cannot stay indoors like houseplants. We still have lives and there is nothing more essential and required than that. Take basic precautions of distancing and masks and we can leave home.

Our restrictions have never said we can not go outdoors. Golf has never been closed here in The Villages. People can exercise and go outdoors for that.

[DianeM]

Our restrictions have never said we can not go outdoors. Golf has never been closed here in The Villages. People can exercise and go outdoors for that.

The planet does not revolve around a golf club. There are are other things people want to do like maybe go to a pool or just plain see friends or go to a movie or go out to dinner or get a mani/pedi or go shopping or go to rec centers or go to Disney, etc. there is life out there that people want back.

[Number 10 GI]

You and what army are actively, physically, preventing anyone from doing it? Can it even be prevented at all, with regulation? The question is - IS it being done, with regards to COVID-19?

This isn't about guns. It's about social distancing, washing hands, trying not to congregate if it can be avoided, when your state has just opened one of the two primary tourist attractions in the state's existence.

It's like, if the governor tells Disney World "go ahead, open up" tomorrow. TOMORROW. And Disney says "woah awesome, hotels, trams, rides, sidewalks, attractions - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!" and then they put a sign on the gate that says "please respect social distancing."

Not Gonna Happen.

People will either come in droves, ignore social distancing, and give the virus to the employees - who will spread it to their families, who will spread it to the supermarkets, who will spread it to strangers - which is how this whirlwind started in the first place...

Or

They will avoid these places like the plague - and since the places all opened for business, it also means they are now staffed, and have to pay their staff, the lights are all one, the rides are all powered up, the hotel housekeeping folks are all lined up with freshly washed linens and the scones for the free breakfast buffet are thawing out in the fridge - but have no revenue coming in with which to pay for all this.

So you're going to end up with a fresh new batch of sick and dead people

OR

You're gonna end up with a lot of bankrupt stores.

All because one tourist attraction opened up too soon. Just like the beaches are opened to the public too soon, without ANY possible ability to control the crowds.

You made it about guns by saying how easy it is to buy a firearm in another state. I was correcting totally erroneous information that another uninformed individual would parrot in their discussions perpetuating an untruth. Out of curiosity where did you hear that misinformation?

[coffeebean]

The planet does not revolve around a golf club. There are are other things people want to do like maybe go to a pool or just plain see friends or go to a movie or go out to dinner or get a mani/pedi or go shopping or go to rec centers or go to Disney, etc. there is life out there that people want back.

I agree with this, Diane. However, I was responding to a poster who said that people do not want to be cooped up inside all the time (or something to that effect). I was referring to the fact that even during our restrictions, we can still go outside to exercise. No one has to remain cooped up inside.

[DianeM]

I agree with this, Diane. However, I was responding to a poster who said that people do not want to be cooped up inside all the time (or something to that effect). I was referring to the fact that even during our restrictions, we can still go outside to exercise. No one has to remain cooped up inside.

Actually it was me you responded to but I was responding to someone who doesn’t want to leave the house. That was why I said we were not houseplants and needed to move. No one said we have to be indoor prisoners but some have taken it literally. Ahh....this too shall pass. Have a good evening.

[Two Bills]

Can we do roundabouts now?

[coffeebean]

Actually it was me you responded to but I was responding to someone who doesn’t want to leave the house. That was why I said we were not houseplants and needed to move. No one said we have to be indoor prisoners but some have taken it literally. Ahh....this too shall pass. Have a good evening.

OK, gotcha.

[Bogie Shooter]

Can we do roundabouts now?
:1rotfl:

[600th Photo Sq]

I agree to some extent with the idea of what you post.

Agree that the inside rec centers be closed, or limited with someone to serve as a counter, and limited group sizes, with no loitering in the halls or central area. If a club has more than 15 members, then that club can't have a full-membership meeting inside. If the club only has 5-10 members then they can have their meeting, with chairs spaced appropriately, and any buffet-style treats at the end of the meeting have to be visited one person at a time.

If you open the larger pools only, then everyone who goes to any of the pools, will all try to congregate at only the larger pools. For that reason I would suggest opening ALL the pools but limiting them to ONLY residents of the area. In other words - if you live in the Paradise Rec center area, then you can't go to the Caroline Pool.

If your area doesn't have its own pool you can use the regional pool. If your area has its own pool, you should not be using the regional pool.

And it needs to be, for the time being, residents only. Tenants are residents, so as long as they have a residents' ID, they should have the same privileges. GUESTS should not be permitted, for now at least. Not grandchildren, not kids. Properties are intended to have 2 residents per home. So only 2 resident IDs should be issued to any individual home.

The problem with the squares is people congregating in close quarters. I'd suggest removing the seating entirely - no more seats allowed, not even if you bring them in yourself. That will drastically reduce the number of people who congregate, and limit how long they stay in the area.

Open all businesses to OUTDOOR business only. Sidewalk sales, outdoor eating, etc. It's a sad fact that if you give people an inch, they'll take a mile. If you let exactly 4 people into your boutique, then when one leaves the next one in line will demand to be let in with her spouse and visiting grandkids. It would just be a logistic nightmare to enforce social distancing rules inside cramped boutiques like those in the squares.

For the same reason, instead of weekly, biweekly, or monthly craft fairs - maybe make them daily. Turn the squares into pedestrian traffic only, and make these "events" non-events by making them commonplace.

You'll have fewer people attending on a daily basis, but vendors will still be able to take in a profit because the same number of people will be attending weekly. The population gets spread out, instead of all showing up at once.

I also think it might be possible to implement a drink chit system. You can buy drink credits, and use up to 2 per day. They could be attached to your Villages ID, or drivers' license for the public that doesn't live in the Villages. That way they can't be used by other people.

After reading your rather lengthy post I'm exhausted and honestly it's too much for me to remember.

So I am going to stay at home and continue to watch movies, next up the sequel to Silence of The Lambs ( Hannibal ) . Then take out from Havana Restaurant. :doggie: :popcorn:

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Can we do roundabouts now?

Yes.

Yes - Roundabout - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYfPACiJ6ew)

[GoodLife]

I would not bathe with a person who might have tuberculosis and I would not swim with someone who might have Covid-19. Immersing yourself in salt water doesn't seem like a safe thing to do in these germy times.

I thought you only listened to doctors.

There is no evidence that COVID-19 can be spread to humans through the use of pools, hot tubs or spas, or water playgrounds. Proper operation, maintenance, and disinfection (e.g., with chlorine and bromine) of pools, hot tubs or spas, and water playgrounds should inactivate the virus that causes COVID-19.

Water Transmission and COVID-19: Questions and Answers (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/water.html)

[600th Photo Sq]

Yes.

Yes - Roundabout - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYfPACiJ6ew)

Roundabout ? Is that the same as " Roundabout When " ? I'm confused . :ohdear: :shocked:

[600th Photo Sq]

Yes of course they’re opinions. Just conversation since no one has a working crystal ball.

Actually you are wrong. I have a Crystal Ball ( Tiffany's ) given to me a few years ago.

It is beautiful and I often look at it. So to say no one has a crystal ball is " Wrong " .

Once I post this I will go and look at it maybe even feel it. :shocked:

[DianeM]

Actually you are wrong. I have a Crystal Ball ( Tiffany's ) given to me a few years ago.

It is beautiful and I often look at it. So to say no one has a crystal ball is " Wrong " .

Once I post this I will go and look at it maybe even feel it. :shocked:

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[600th Photo Sq]

The planet does not revolve around a golf club. There are are other things people want to do like maybe go to a pool or just plain see friends or go to a movie or go out to dinner or get a mani/pedi or go shopping or go to rec centers or go to Disney, etc. there is life out there that people want back.

I have decided to self isolate myself for the next 2 weeks reason being I forgot my mask today while shopping at Publix.

It's only right that I have made this decision. :doggie:

Gonna watch Red Dragon ( Anthony Hopkins ) feet up with my 6 pack of Michelob Ultra hey gotta be done. :shocked: