A Light Topic For Some Discussion :)

[Polar Bear]

I know quantum mechanics is the latest way to explain all the great mysteries of the universe :loco:, but I got a problem with that... :read:

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!? :shrug:

Any of you quantum physicists out there agree with me? :popcorn:

[alwann]

I know quantum mechanics is the latest way to explain all the great mysteries of the universe :loco:, but I got a problem with that... :read:

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!? :shrug:

Any of you quantum physicists out there agree with me? :popcorn:

Well, the key word relative to much of this science is "theoretical." I enjoy watching programs about Cosmology on the Science channel. They remind me of weather forecasting. It's all so much educated guesswork. One day black holes are bad. The next week they are our salvation. We mortals can't stand the unknowable and make up theories to fill in the blanks, backed up by multivariable calculus. Some read the Bible. “Whenever we proceed from the known into the unknown we may hope to understand, but we may have to learn at the same time a new meaning of the word 'understanding.”
― Werner Karl Heisenberg (The real one, not Walter White):1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

Wow, way to much deep thinking for me, I think I will watch Caddyshack again instead.

[Polar Bear]

Wow, way to much deep thinking for me, I think I will watch Caddyshack again instead.
Hey...you see the forum this post is in, right?!? Have some fun with it! :)

(Deep thinking welcome also if you are so inclined. :) )

[Velvet]

Wow, quantum theory... brings back wave mechanics, matrix math.... many years ago. Must have advanced a lot since I was in uni. I always disliked the indefinite ness and probabilities associated with it. On the other hand, I can’t think of a better way to explain away “measurements of reality” such as, fake news.

Hey, I’m in my alternate reality right now, as I am posting this my profile says, “I’m off line”.

Update, I’m back “online”.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Quantum theory in a nutshell:

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it...


then the woman is still correct.

That's really all you need to know about it. This message brought to you by the letter Q and the color chartreuse.

[villagetinker]

I always knew the was a reason for Scotch, the more you drink the clearer these things become!

[anothersteve]

Remember that show "Quantum Leap". Great show, lousy actors.
Steve

[Polar Bear]

Quantum theory in a nutshell:

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it...

then the woman is still correct....
There are some parts of quantum theory I do think have some merit, like...The Uncertainty Principle. :D

[davem4616]

I know quantum mechanics is the latest way to explain all the great mysteries of the universe :loco:, but I got a problem with that... :read:

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!? :shrug:

Any of you quantum physicists out there agree with me? :popcorn:



I know a guy who knows a guy that bought into it by buying a subscription to Popular Mechanics...their articles often feature things that are totally mysterious to me, but could be just what you're looking for

[runkcrun]

Remember that show "Quantum Leap". Great show, lousy actors.
Steve

Hey, I loved that show! I even have the entire DVD collection!

Scott Bakula got a Golden Globe for his performance. I still like Scott Bakula on NCIS New Orleans!

Dean Stockwell was great as Al! Who else could portray a hologram like that!

My all time fav was when Dr. Sam Beckett leaped into a research monkey!

Quantum Leap fans unite!

[karostay]

I referred to Mad magazine as an educational source

[Cparker]

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!? :shrug:

What does what you believe in have to do with quantum mechanics. Are we talking religion here?

[graciegirl]

I think self discipline is the key...……

Tomorrow marks 4 weeks of isolation with a 4-mile walk each day and one-half hour most evenings on my bike.
No sugar, no meat, dairy or flour. Also zero alcohol! The change has been fantastic and I feel great! A healthy vegan diet, gluten free, sugar free. So far have lost 15+ lbs of fat and gained muscle mass!

I have no idea whose status this is, but I am really proud of them so I decided to copy & paste

[Doro22]

I think self discipline is the key...……

Tomorrow marks 4 weeks of isolation with a 4-mile walk each day and one-half hour most evenings on my bike.
No sugar, no meat, dairy or flour. Also zero alcohol! The change has been fantastic and I feel great! A healthy vegan diet, gluten free, sugar free. So far have lost 15+ lbs of fat and gained muscle mass!

I have no idea whose status this is, but I am really proud of them so I decided to copy & paste

Whew! For a minute there (until I read that last sentence) I thought you had lost your sanity.

[Dave Laluk]

We all have Schrodinger’s Virus now.

Because we cannot get tested, we can’t know whether we have the virus or not.

We have to act as if we have the virus so that we don’t spread it to others.

We have to act as if we’ve never had the virus because if we didn’t have it, we’re not immune.

Therefore, we both have and don’t have the virus.

If you don’t understand this joke, you’re never allowed to talk about science again.

[dennisgavin]

The secret to quantum mechanics can be found in thingamajigs and whatchamacallits!

[justjim]

I think self discipline is the key...……

Tomorrow marks 4 weeks of isolation with a 4-mile walk each day and one-half hour most evenings on my bike.
No sugar, no meat, dairy or flour. Also zero alcohol! The change has been fantastic and I feel great! A healthy vegan diet, gluten free, sugar free. So far have lost 15+ lbs of fat and gained muscle mass!

I have no idea whose status this is, but I am really proud of them so I decided to copy & paste

“You never know what your going to get in a Graciegirl post”. On this rainy Thursday morning, you made my day. Thanks, Justjim :mademyday:

[CFrance]

I think self discipline is the key...……

Tomorrow marks 4 weeks of isolation with a 4-mile walk each day and one-half hour most evenings on my bike.
No sugar, no meat, dairy or flour. Also zero alcohol! The change has been fantastic and I feel great! A healthy vegan diet, gluten free, sugar free. So far have lost 15+ lbs of fat and gained muscle mass!

I have no idea whose status this is, but I am really proud of them so I decided to copy & paste
I was thinking VPL came back as you!

[Polar Bear]

I know a guy who knows a guy that bought into it by buying a subscription to Popular Mechanics...their articles often feature things that are totally mysterious to me, but could be just what you're looking for
Thanks, but I have no shortage of reading and reference material. Here are a couple of examples...

Book: Through Two Doors at Once
Through Two Doors at Once by Anil Ananthaswamy (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42108602-through-two-doors-at-once)

TV Show: Cosmos: Possible Worlds episode
Light and the quantum universe take center stage in 'Cosmos: Possible Worlds' | Space (https://www.space.com/cosmos-possible-worlds-episodes-9-10-recap.html)

[sail33or]

Well, just for fun, mankind has no idea what "gravity" is. They just gave this mysterious force a name with some observational measurements.

We think we know what an atom is but can't explain protons. They are suppose to repel each other (same charge) but it actually takes an atomic explosion to break them apart.

Know one knows what light is or why it travels exactly the same speed. What even makes it travel/move in the first place.

Electricity can only be explained with "IMAGINARY" numbers that do not exist. (Square root of negative one)

[CFrance]

Well, just for fun, mankind has no idea what "gravity" is. They just gave this mysterious force a name with some observational measurements.

We think we know what an atom is but can't explain protons. They are suppose to repel each other (same charge) but it actually takes an atomic explosion to break them apart.

Know one knows what light is or why it travels exactly the same speed. What even makes it travel/move in the first place.

Electricity can only be explained with "IMAGINARY" numbers that do not exist. (Square root of negative one)
Okay, you have now brought me up to Mental Nap Time!

[bumpygreens]

We all have Schrodinger’s Virus now.

Because we cannot get tested, we can’t know whether we have the virus or not.

We have to act as if we have the virus so that we don’t spread it to others.

We have to act as if we’ve never had the virus because if we didn’t have it, we’re not immune.

Therefore, we both have and don’t have the virus.

If you don’t understand this joke, you’re never allowed to talk about science again.

For this to be true, his cat must have been a Cheshire.

[arbajeda]

Not sure what your belief system has to do with anything. Atheists don't believe in God, but that doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

[Polar Bear]

Not sure what your belief system has to do with anything...
Anything? Really?

Regardless, at the very least it has to do with interesting and fun discussion. :)

[600th Photo Sq]

I know quantum mechanics is the latest way to explain all the great mysteries of the universe :loco:, but I got a problem with that... :read:

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!? :shrug:

Any of you quantum physicists out there agree with me? :popcorn:


I am certain that this very subject was discussed in a recent James Bond movie Quantum of... ? It was during a poker game that James eventually won. :shocked:

[600th Photo Sq]

I referred to Mad magazine as an educational source

Too bad they no longer publish Mad. :doggie:

[John41]

I know quantum mechanics is the latest way to explain all the great mysteries of the universe :loco:, but I got a problem with that... :read:

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!? :shrug:

Any of you quantum physicists out there agree with me? :popcorn:
Humans developed to function in a three dimensional world where we see larger objects like bricks and planets. That’s why classical Newtonian physics seems plausible to our mind and senses. On the very, very small scale of quantum mechanics our intuition and senses are inadequate. Quantum mechanics does not explain everything. There is no quantum theory of gravity yet. But what the equations of quantum mechanics do is describe the behavior of the subatomic world to a great degree of accuracy. That allows the possibility of quantum computers operating at speeds orders of magnitude faster than we can imagine using nonlocality, that is quantum entanglement. There are other interpretations besides the multiverse of what is going on “behind” the equations. Many good general readership books on this subject.

[MacScuba]

The laws of physics, like regular laws, must be obeyed, regardless of your approval, awareness, or understanding. :bigbow:

[JoMar]

Quantum Kemo Sabe?

[Velvet]

This thread is so fun!

I love how we, humans, with our tiny minds try to explain and understand what really is beyond us. At least, we try....

[600th Photo Sq]

Quantum Kemo Sabe?

My 6' apart greeting right hand up palm facing you " How " .

[Windguy]

I know quantum mechanics is the latest way to explain all the great mysteries of the universe :loco:, but I got a problem with that... :read:

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!? :shrug:

Any of you quantum physicists out there agree with me? :popcorn:

Well, first off, I'm an engineer who loves to read about modern physics, so I am NOT an expert, but I have a rudimentary knowledge of these things. It just so happens that I am wearing a t-shirt that essentially says Schroedinger's cat (a thought experiment) is AdLeIaVdE (the caps say alive and the lower case says dead to imply that the cat is alive and dead at the same time.

QM does not include gravity, so it doesn't explain "all the great mysteries." String theory was developed largely to merge gravity with the other forces all into one framework. To do so requires adding a bunch of extra dimensions. Some argue that these extra dimensions are "rolled up" so tightly that we don't notice them. Imagine a person walking on a tightrope. To her, the rope seems one dimensional; she can go only forward and backward. But, to an ant walking on that tightrope it is two dimensional. Like the person, the ant can go forward and backward, but it can also go around the rope at any point along its length. This is an example of a tightly rolled dimension. It's only noticeable on a scale much smaller than we can perceive.

If you don't believe in a multiverse, then I guess maybe you ascribe to the Copenhagen Convention, which many of the earlier theoreticians came up with about 100 years ago (Schroedinger was one of them). Their opinion was that a QM experiment can be in multiple states UNTIL a human being measures it, like the cat. That then collapses Schroedinger's wave function to yield just one result. I personally find that to be a bit strange and think the idea of a "Quantum Multiverse" to be a little less bizarre. That's the one (I've read about nine different kinds of multiverses) that says whenever a quantum event or experiment happens, ALL the possible results happen, but each different result creates a different universe. Copies of the experimenter end up in each one to read a different result.

Experiments have shown that QM accurately predicts the results of virtually every experiment happening in the incredible tiny quantum domain to a very high resolution. It is very well tested. QM predicted the Higg's Boson decades before they built the LHC to look for and find it. Such a thing gives physicists lot of warm fuzzies. That's why it is considered a full-fledged theory instead of a hypotheses, which is an untested speculation or a what if. So, if you can't believe in action at a distance, then you are refusing to believe a well-tested theory. Back in the day, it was inconceivable that one could talk to another person who was on the other side of the world in real time. That's because they knew nothing about electricity or radio. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law states that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It does seem rather magical, doesn't it?

[Windguy]

I love how we, humans, with our tiny minds try to explain and understand what really is beyond us. At least, we try....

What makes you so certain it is beyond us?

[Windguy]

Well, just for fun, mankind has no idea what "gravity" is. They just gave this mysterious force a name with some observational measurements.

We think we know what an atom is but can't explain protons. They are suppose to repel each other (same charge) but it actually takes an atomic explosion to break them apart.

Know one knows what light is or why it travels exactly the same speed. What even makes it travel/move in the first place.

Electricity can only be explained with "IMAGINARY" numbers that do not exist. (Square root of negative one)

I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong on every single one of your points. You are expressing personal opinions--not facts.

[Windguy]

The laws of physics, like regular laws, must be obeyed, regardless of your approval, awareness, or understanding. :bigbow:

Didn't you mean to say "unlike regular (human) laws.

Remember the day when the Reagan (I think) was pushing the 55 mph speed limit? They had a saying: "55 MPH--it's not just a good idea--it's the law." I saw bumper sticker then that said "186,000 miles per second. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!" :-)

[Velvet]

...

[Polar Bear]

...I'm an engineer who loves to read about modern physics, so I am NOT an expert, but I have a rudimentary knowledge of these things...
Heheh...the first part of your post describes me just as much as it does you. :) (I will not include the remainder of your post just in the interest of space.) That having been said...

Gravity is not a major part of QM, but is often included in the discussion. After all, many believe (as I do) that you cannot discuss some of the laws that govern the universe to the total exclusion of others.

And as far as the Copenhagen Convention is concerned, it ascribes to much of what I said in my original post that I do not believe in. It's not just the multiverse, but also nonlocality and determinism that I have a problem with.

You should read the book I referenced earlier (see below) which details how many well-respected scientists do not accept as fact what many other scientists do with respect to QM. We have harnessed a lot of knowledge of QM to advance our technology. But we are far from having a proven understanding of all things quantum. So as far as "refusing to believe a well-tested theory"...that is very true to a degree. I will accept it as fact when it proven, not just well tested. That has not yet happened and is not likely any time soon.

The book describes this in great detail...

Book: Through Two Doors at Once
Through Two Doors at Once by Anil Ananthaswamy (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42108602-through-two-doors-at-once)

[sail33or]

Someone said that "the fact" that we do not know what gravity is was just my opinion. So therefore he must know what gravity is or knows someone that does. Fantastic. Tell me.

The issue of will our brains ever be able to understand the universe can be illustrated by the impossibility of explaining how something "ALWAYS WAS". I can kinda understand how the universe can last forever but I sure can't fathom "ALWAYS WAS".

[600th Photo Sq]

Well, first off, I'm an engineer who loves to read about modern physics, so I am NOT an expert, but I have a rudimentary knowledge of these things. It just so happens that I am wearing a t-shirt that essentially says Schroedinger's cat (a thought experiment) is AdLeIaVdE (the caps say alive and the lower case says dead to imply that the cat is alive and dead at the same time.

QM does not include gravity, so it doesn't explain "all the great mysteries." String theory was developed largely to merge gravity with the other forces all into one framework. To do so requires adding a bunch of extra dimensions. Some argue that these extra dimensions are "rolled up" so tightly that we don't notice them. Imagine a person walking on a tightrope. To her, the rope seems one dimensional; she can go only forward and backward. But, to an ant walking on that tightrope it is two dimensional. Like the person, the ant can go forward and backward, but it can also go around the rope at any point along its length. This is an example of a tightly rolled dimension. It's only noticeable on a scale much smaller than we can perceive.

If you don't believe in a multiverse, then I guess maybe you ascribe to the Copenhagen Convention, which many of the earlier theoreticians came up with about 100 years ago (Schroedinger was one of them). Their opinion was that a QM experiment can be in multiple states UNTIL a human being measures it, like the cat. That then collapses Schroedinger's wave function to yield just one result. I personally find that to be a bit strange and think the idea of a "Quantum Multiverse" to be a little less bizarre. That's the one (I've read about nine different kinds of multiverses) that says whenever a quantum event or experiment happens, ALL the possible results happen, but each different result creates a different universe. Copies of the experimenter end up in each one to read a different result.

Experiments have shown that QM accurately predicts the results of virtually every experiment happening in the incredible tiny quantum domain to a very high resolution. It is very well tested. QM predicted the Higg's Boson decades before they built the LHC to look for and find it. Such a thing gives physicists lot of warm fuzzies. That's why it is considered a full-fledged theory instead of a hypotheses, which is an untested speculation or a what if. So, if you can't believe in action at a distance, then you are refusing to believe a well-tested theory. Back in the day, it was inconceivable that one could talk to another person who was on the other side of the world in real time. That's because they knew nothing about electricity or radio. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law states that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It does seem rather magical, doesn't it?

For me watching " Twilight Zone " the Black & White version is really fantastic along with my 6 pack of Michelob Ultra, and snacks. Feet up. Munching. Relaxed.

Gene Rodenberry was amazing. Not totally sure which planet he came from really who cares, I enjoyed The Twilight Zone. Hi Gene where ever you are .

My guess traveling . :doggie:

[LiverpoolWalrus]

This is what I love about this board!

[Windguy]

Someone said that "the fact" that we do not know what gravity is was just my opinion. So therefore he must know what gravity is or knows someone that does. Fantastic. Tell me.

Gravity is a warping of space/time caused by the presence of mass. Basic General Relativity.

[sail33or]

Gravity is a warping of space/time caused by the presence of mass. Basic General Relativity.

Googled gravity, did we. Where did "mass" come from? Don't say Big Bang. Just theory. Don't say, "Always Existed" because how can something have always existed. At least we can't grasp that. But perhaps you could google "infinite", etc.

So you believe in Time Travel, I mean warping of space/time...……….just slingshot by a Blackhole, right.

[Polar Bear]

Googled gravity, did we. Where did "mass" come from? Don't say Big Bang. Just theory...
You’re right. Just theory. Problem is...

It’s all just theory. Some with more scientific backing and data. But still just theory. So if you want to just discard theories out-of-hand with no discussion, we’re left with nothing to talk about. :)

So, to just toss a subject out there...

Is light made up of particles? Waves? Both? Neither? Theories welcome. :)