The China Syndrome

[JGVillages]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

[graciegirl]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

If that would help I would be all for it. But first someone has to prove to me that it was a deliberate act rather than a natural occurrence.

[Velvet]

Yes, but, have you noticed some people thought they had this virus in various areas of the US in October? That has to be looked at carefully once this virus is under control. Easy enough, I would think, to figure out if these people actually had Covid with antibodies test.

[rustyp]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[graciegirl]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

This makes it appear that only China and U.S. have been affected by this virus. The only area I see NOT affected by death and devastation due to Covid-19 are in the lower hemisphere and I keep wondering why? Plus again. No one has any proof that Chinese people had anything to do with starting this virus in labs. They didn't report it at first, I believe. Sometimes countries have sort of a poofed up idea of their need to keep things looking good. Cultural. For instance, North Korea seems to be denying that Yung is not terribly sick. I suspect he is.

[TexaninVA]

If that would help I would be all for it. But first someone has to prove to me that it was a deliberate act rather than a natural occurrence.

If you would like a legal standard of "proof," maybe you should sue the Chinese Communist Party in a court of law and find out if they really did it?

[graciegirl]

If you would like a legal standard of "proof," maybe you should sue the Chinese Communist Party in a court of law and find out if they really did it?

No. My common sense is making me think that it is preposterous to think a country would launch a pandemic that harmed it's own people.

I have never sued anyone in my life, nor been sued.

[TexaninVA]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

Agree with the gist of your post and thank you for it. "We the people" indeed, and now more than ever.

We are also taking a closer look at the products we buy and attempting to do likewise. As you note, it’s very difficult to do for a number of reasons.

In the meantime, you may find this interview helpful in terms of better understanding the core nature of the CCP. The guy being interviewed is a Chinese billionaire who now has political asylum in the US, and a self-avowed enemy of the CCP. Most Americans have no idea because it's never been a focus before and thus most have never studied this much. Thankfully, that's now changing.

Keep in mind this was taped before the Wuhan virus pandemic. The guy’s real name is Guo Wengui, but he has also used the alias Miles Kwok. (that gets a bit confusing which is why I clarify it here.)

See what you think …

🔴 Exiled Chinese Billionaire's Accusations of China (w/ Guo Wengui & Kyle Bass) | RV Classics - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE&list=PLc_EpmKgQgEzvtmw4ZhdqjdUYKk7hw3vC&index=6&t=1s)

...

[Marvic 1]

Yes, but, have you noticed some people thought they had this virus in various areas of the US in October?

The first death in the United States from the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) was a Washington state man in his 50s who had underlying health conditions, state health officials announced on Feb 29.
So with that said, you mean to say that only one (1) person died from the Coronavirus in 4 months here in the United States?

[B767drvr]

Plus again. No one has any proof that Chinese people had anything to do with starting this virus in labs.

Gracie, respectfully, you are uninformed. As has been reported in US media, US intelligence agencies are 100% CERTAIN this virus originated in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. What has not been publicly disclosed (yet) is if it has been definitively determined that its release was accidental or intentional.

This video concisely lays out the case for the lab-manipulated aspect to the virus. It is approximately 1 hr long. Watch just 10 minutes and you'll begin to understand. "Covid-19" is the WHO assigned "politically correct" name for this virus, which originated in Wuhan, China.




The first documentary movie on CCP virus, Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Coronavirus - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=3bXWGxhd7ic&feature=emb_logo)

[TexaninVA]

No. My common sense is making me think that it is preposterous to think a country would launch a pandemic that harmed it's own people. .

Respectfully, your “common sense” is more accurately described as ethnocentrism.

All of us, having been lucky enough to be born and raised in the American Judeo-Christian culture, tend to believe in the Golden Rule, or at least we lean in that direction.

Thus, when something horrific like this occurs, it’s understandable the tendency is to say “we would never do something like that, therefore neither would the CCP.”

As I've said in other posts, the notion of a deliberate release has not yet been proven, but neither should it be ruled out at this early point. But, I think you can safely assume the CCP as a matter of course will lie as needed to cover their you know what.

[TexaninVA]

What I find incredulous, are the number of people (including those at the very top) who seem to be clueless... as to how tariff's actually work. :oops:

If an American importer buys widgets from China at $1 each, but then a tariff of 25% is put on them...it now costs the AMERICAN IMPORTER $1.25 for each widget.

NOT China.

Now the importer has to make one of the following decisions.

1. Eat the increase and sell widgets at the normal price...with the associated reduction in "profit" (selling price minus purchased price, plus overhead of course)
2. Increase widget price a little, to recoup SOME of the tariff they've paid to the U.S. government...while their business absorbs the rest.
3. Pass on all of the cost to American consumers.

Please note that NONE of the importer's choices, has China paying anything...to the U.S. Government.

NOTHING.

In choice #2 & #3, it is the U.S. consumer paying for at least part of the tariff. :oops:

Why do so many...not understand this? :ohdear:

People understand that it's not very smart to have most of our supply chain, especially for key items such as medical supplies, located in a foreign country run by a communist dictatorship.

[TexaninVA]

This makes it appear that only China and U.S. have been affected by this virus. The only area I see NOT affected by death and devastation due to Covid-19 are in the lower hemisphere and I keep wondering why? Plus again. No one has any proof that Chinese people had anything to do with starting this virus in labs. They didn't report it at first, I believe. Sometimes countries have sort of a poofed up idea of their need to keep things looking good. Cultural. For instance, North Korea seems to be denying that Yung is not terribly sick. I suspect he is.

The key point to grasp is no one is talking about the Chinese people .... but rather the CCP.

[ColdNoMore]

People understand that it's not very smart to have most of our supply chain, especially for key items such as medical supplies, located in a foreign country run by a communist dictatorship.

If you've EVER purchased ANYTHING made in a foreign country because it was less expensive, to find the culprit of the situation you describe you only need to do one thing...go look in the mirror. :oops:

[JimJohnson]

If that would help I would be all for it. But first someone has to prove to me that it was a deliberate act rather than a natural occurrence.

POTUS has told us that China has been very transparent. Don’t blame them for an act of God!

[retiredguy123]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"
I agree with your post. But, you can buy almost everything on Amazon.com. And, you can search their website by typing in "made in USA". However, I don't think that you will be able to live a very good life by buying only the products that appear on that search. Almost everything has components made in China or some other foreign country. I think the U.S. consumers have been conditioned to always seek out the least expensive products. That seems to be the message contained in most advertising. Asking consumers to pay more for a product because it is made in the USA would be a culture change of monumental proportions. Just my opinion.

[Topspinmo]

What I find incredulous, are the number of people (including those at the very top) who seem to be clueless... as to how tariff's actually work. :oops:

If an American importer buys widgets from China at $1 each, but then a tariff of 25% is put on them...it now costs the AMERICAN IMPORTER $1.25 for each widget.

NOT China.

Now the importer has to make one of the following decisions.

1. Eat the increase and sell widgets at the normal price...with the associated reduction in "profit" (selling price minus purchased price, plus overhead of course)
2. Increase widget price a little, to recoup SOME of the tariff they've paid to the U.S. government...while their business absorbs the rest.
3. Pass on all of the cost to American consumers.

Please note that NONE of the importer's choices, has China paying anything...to the U.S. Government.

NOTHING.

In choice #2 & #3, it is the U.S. consumer paying for at least part of the tariff. :oops:

Why do so many...not understand this? :ohdear:


IMO What it does is somewhat even the playing field for other sources that don’t have near slave labor and NO worries of government environmental protection. IMO China has the most polluted cities in the world.

[Topspinmo]

POTUS has told us that China has been very transparent. Don’t blame them for an act of God!

And you know this for sure? Right——- I see you point of view.

[TexaninVA]

If you've EVER purchased ANYTHING made in a foreign country because it was less expensive, to find the culprit of the situation you describe you only need to do one thing...go look in the mirror. :oops:

Yeah, yeah, but you're either missing the point or simply failing to address what the poster was getting at :ohdear:

[LiverpoolWalrus]

My common sense is making me think that it is preposterous to think a country would launch a pandemic that harmed its own people.



I wouldn't be surprised if a repressive totalitarian regime such as the CCP found it acceptable to "sacrifice" a few thousand of their citizens in order to achieve a bigger goal.

Not convinced though that this is biological warfare.

[TexaninVA]

POTUS has told us that China has been very transparent. Don’t blame them for an act of God!

Let's try to leave politics out of it for a change ... I know it's tempting.

[Topspinmo]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Just put Hugh important tax on companies/ CEOs that sold out to China for near slave labor. Add Mexico to list also.

[blueash]

Gracie, respectfully, you are uninformed. As has been reported in US media, US intelligence agencies are 100% CERTAIN this virus originated in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

I'll bite. Can you please supply me with a link to a statement that supports your "100% certain" claim. I think you are confusing your certainty with the US intelligence agencies. Those same agencies that of course had uniform conclusions about recent events and were derided with the term "deep state" to imply they had a political agenda rather than fact seeking. So, please, those links to support your statement.

us intelligence agencies origin of covid wuhan lab - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=us+intelligence+agencies+origin+of+covid+ wuhan+lab&ie=&oe=)

Wow, the pro-administration OAN network (https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/pro-trump-oan-pushes-wild-conspiracy-theory-novel-coronavirus-was-created) has told its viewers that the virus was made in North Carolina with the help of Dr. Fauci (https://www.mediamatters.org/media/3859256) and exported to China to hurt the administration. I do wish all the conspiracy theorists would come to some agreement.

[Kenswing]

What I find incredulous, are the number of people (including those at the very top) who seem to be clueless... as to how tariff's actually work. :oops:

If an American importer buys widgets from China at $1 each, but then a tariff of 25% is put on them...it now costs the AMERICAN IMPORTER $1.25 for each widget.

NOT China.

Now the importer has to make one of the following decisions.

1. Eat the increase and sell widgets at the normal price...with the associated reduction in "profit" (selling price minus purchased price, plus overhead of course)
2. Increase widget price a little, to recoup SOME of the tariff they've paid to the U.S. government...while their business absorbs the rest.
3. Pass on all of the cost to American consumers.

Please note that NONE of the importer's choices, has China paying anything...to the U.S. Government.

NOTHING.

In choice #2 & #3, it is the U.S. consumer paying for at least part of the tariff. :oops:

Why do so many...not understand this? :ohdear:
It's easy to understand. The costs are always passed on to the consumer. But that's the real goal. To make Chinese products more expensive for the consumer so they'll try to source their products elsewhere.

To say China pays nothing is not really true. They will pay in lost sales if people can find their products from someone else cheaper. Whether we can actually find our products elsewhere is the catch right now. But even if the manufacturing doesn't come back to the U.S., Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, et al, are more than happy to step into the marketplace. If we add enough cost to Chinese manufactured goods to make the other countries competitive production will shift.

[GoodLife]

Why did China refuse help of CDC and WHO?

Why did they kick out journalists?

Why did they silence or disappear several Doctors in Wuhan?

It's a mystery!

[retiredguy123]

Why did China refuse help of CDC and WHO?

Why did they kick out journalists?

Why did they silence or disappear several Doctors in Wuhan?

It's a mystery!
It's a typical cover up of something bad. Happens all the time. Not just in China.

[GoodLife]

It's a typical cover up of something bad. Happens all the time. Not just in China.

Agreed, all governments do it. All people do it in some form or another.

[B767drvr]

I'll bite. Can you please supply me with a link to a statement that supports your "100% certain" claim. I think you are confusing your certainty with the US intelligence agencies. Those same agencies that of course had uniform conclusions about recent events and were derided with the term "deep state" to imply they had a political agenda rather than fact seeking. So, please, those links to support your statement.

us intelligence agencies origin of covid wuhan lab - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=us+intelligence+agencies+origin+of+covid+ wuhan+lab&ie=&oe=)

Wow, the pro-administration OAN network (https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/pro-trump-oan-pushes-wild-conspiracy-theory-novel-coronavirus-was-created) has told its viewers that the virus was made in North Carolina with the help of Dr. Fauci (https://www.mediamatters.org/media/3859256) and exported to China to hurt the administration. I do wish all the conspiracy theorists would come to some agreement.

Reported on Fox News TV newscast... prior to issuing a written report, sources will often speak anonymously about its contents which is what Fox News reported as a "Breaking Story."

[graciegirl]

Reported on Fox News TV newscast... prior to issuing a written report, sources will often speak anonymously about its contents which is what Fox News reported as a "Breaking Story."

THAT is your valid link?

I hope that we will live to see this clearly settled.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

The sad thing is there are some people who honestly think that's how tariffs work.

[spoiler alert]
Tariffs on items imported from China is paid for by the people BUYING the products, not selling them. That means the USA pays the tariffs. Not China.

[retiredguy123]

The sad thing is there are some people who honestly think that's how tariffs work.

[spoiler alert]
Tariffs on items imported from China is paid for by the people BUYING the products, not selling them. That means the USA pays the tariffs. Not China.
By that logic, when China charges a U.S. importer a tariff, then China is paying the tariff. So, why do we care if China charges a tariff?

[Two Bills]

I guarantee that given the choice the vast majority of people will go for the cheapest item.
Wherever it is made!

PS. Tariffs work both ways.
Ask US farmers how well they work!

[GoodLife]

There are basically three scenarios

1. Chinese biolab engineered the virus, released it
2. Chinese biolab was studying the virus, accidently escaped
3. Virus developed naturally in wet market conditions

I don't believe #1 and scientists have studied genome, doubt it is engineered.

#2 We know for a fact that they were studying the bat virus in Wuhan, no proof that it accidently escaped but a paper by Chinese scientists studied this and said it it did, then paper was removed by CCP.

#3 If this one is true, and we know it has happened before so its plausible guess what?

Whichever one it is, CCP is trying to hide it by denying access to western scientists, journalists, disappearing/censoring Doctors.

Even if it is the most innocent one, are you not ****ed off? That's okay China, enjoy your bat soup from meat at your filthy wet markets that cause pandemics. I'll sit quietly in my home, wear masks when out shopping, be afraid for anyone to breath on me, and watch my economy crater.

83778

[TexaninVA]

The sad thing is there are some people who honestly think that's how tariffs work.

[spoiler alert]
Tariffs on items imported from China is paid for by the people BUYING the products, not selling them. That means the USA pays the tariffs. Not China.

Yes, I think everyone gets the obvious about tariffs.

Question: are you ok with essentially 100% of our antibiotics being made in China and thus, in effect, controlled by the CCP?

U.S. officials worried about Chinese control of American drug supply (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/u-s-officials-worried-about-chinese-control-american-drug-supply-n1052376)


...

[ColdNoMore]

OAN as any type of legitimate "source?" :22yikes:


What's next...World Net Daily? :1rotfl:

[TexaninVA]

OAN as any type of legitimate "source?" :22yikes:


What's next...World Net Daily? :1rotfl:

OMG ... that's so clever and spot on!! :bigbow:

That's almost as bad as citing MSNBC for that matter!

...

[ColdNoMore]

The sad thing is there are some people who honestly think that's how tariffs work.

[spoiler alert]
Tariffs on items imported from China is paid for by the people BUYING the products, not selling them. That means the USA pays the tariffs. Not China.

Exactly! :oops:

More specifically, American consumers/people are the ones paying whatever amount of the tariff's...the importer chooses to pass on. :oops:

China, or other importers having tariff's assessed...are paying NOTHING.

It's pretty darn frustrating hearing people lie about (or not know) how it actually works...and so many willing to believe those liars. :ohdear:

[Jacksig]

POTUS has told us that China has been very transparent. Don’t blame them for an act of God!

It may be true that this virus was an act of God (yet to be proven) but the Chinese Gov't. failed to listen to their own Dr's and allowed 3 million people to travel all over the world during the Chinese New Year (including 450,000 to the US) without a warning.

Boycotting Chinese goods won't work since many components are produced all over the world. And Tariffs are ultimately paid by the consumer. But here is an idea. Since most of our national debt is owed to China President Trump could simply declare that $6 trillion (our virus cost) is now null & void.

[tsmall22204]

Why is it so important to blame and point fingers right now? There will be time to investigate the origin after we learn to fight this virus.

[RoadToad]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Amazingly enough, that doesn't work! Gee, guess what. Seems any imposed increases just get added to the price of the goods. That way you can pay more for those goods. It does, however, add tariff income to the US treasury coffers. Hey wow,kinda like you just added a new way to TAX us. But that's OK; we'll just dole out a GIANT tax give away to our NEEDY GREEDY.
"THAT is how it works I've been told."

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:[/QUOTE]

[graciegirl]

Why is it so important to blame and point fingers right now? There will be time to investigate the origin after we learn to fight this virus.

THAT is exactly how I see it. I don't understand this kind of thought at all. We can sort the origins out later after we find a way to curb this disease, which is NOT overstated. Look at the spread throughout the entire world...……..except the southern hemisphere.

[RoadToad]

It may be true that this virus was an act of God (yet to be proven) but the Chinese Gov't. failed to listen to their own Dr's and allowed 3 million people to travel all over the world during the Chinese New Year (including 450,000 to the US) without a warning.

Boycotting Chinese goods won't work since many components are produced all over the world. And Tariffs are ultimately paid by the consumer. But here is an idea. Since most of our national debt is owed to China President Trump could simply declare that $6 trillion (our virus cost) is now null & void.

Seems China is not the only government that
"... failed to listen to their own Dr's ..."

[VillageLiberal]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Do some research, China doesn't pay the Tariff, US importers of Chinese products pay the Tariff which often is pass onto you the consumer in the form of higher prices. Also Mexico is not paying for the wall. Please turn off Fox news.

[rustyp]

Do some research, China doesn't pay the Tariff, US importers of Chinese products pay the Tariff which often is pass onto you the consumer in the form of higher prices. Also Mexico is not paying for the wall. Please turn off Fox news.

Did you miss the five guys rolling on the floor p--ing their pants in laughter ?

[xNYer]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

China does not pay tariffs on goods we import. The company that imports them pays the tariff and decides whether to pass on the payment to the consumer or absorb the cost themselves.
It reduces imports only by making the products more expensive to the US consumer.

[TexaninVA]

Why is it so important to blame and point fingers right now? There will be time to investigate the origin after we learn to fight this virus.

That’s like saying let’s just clean up the mess at Pearl Harbor and figure how the Navy dropped the ball. They’ll be plenty of time to figure later out why the Japanese allegedly attacked us.

[VillageLiberal]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

I've been a Made In USA guy for a decade now and your points have been made for a long time now, clear labelling and making online vendors post the origin are the two problems, the biggest problem is the price point. Americans get paid too much per hour and are less productive then the Chinese, plus our executives demand huge salaries and bonuses, all this makes the price of American Made goods less competitive. So companies like Levi's move thier plants overseas or to Mexico save billions of $$ , don't decrease the cost of the jeans, and American's still think they are buying an American product. If we all made an effort to find and buy American made products, even though more expensive, the US manufacturing base would return which should rise all boats, unfortunately poor people don't want to spend $100 for a toaster and rich executives don't want a cut to thier million $$ salaries, plus this is America right. I don't agree with using the virus as a tool to blame China though, the 2009 Swine Flu Pandemic came from the USA and killed about 300 million globally, just think if other countries would have blamed the USA and stopped buying our stuff.

[rustyp]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China. This way we punish China by putting a severe hurt on their economy. The second benefit is China via the tariff money windfall they give us will pay back the trillions our government had to invest in stimulus to keep our economy from collapse. The third benefit will be a huge step gained for us towards self sufficiency. That is how it works I've been told.

.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

1. Notice the five guys on the floor
2. It was my golf buddies, the ones with the red caps did tell me this is the way it works.

[stadry]

is anyone so naive as to think that totalitarian government would not risk even 10% of its population 1,438,278,906 ( that's only 1,438,278 deaths ) if it could lead to world domination ? china regularly disposes of dissidents. does anyone remember the 1 child policy ? we should all know china by now so why defend them ? they are an economic enemy to capitalism

[stadry]

also naive OR ignorant - import tariffs are imposed by OUR government thereby making the goods more expensive ON THE DOCK/AIRPORT APRON. 'decides whether to pass on the payment [ tariff ] to the consumer or absorb the cost themselves.' LAUGHABLE if the company paying tariff absorbs the cost, why would the products be more expensive to american consumers ? need to learn some basic economics

tariffs are imposed to make imported goods more expensive - either to punish the exporting co OR level the playing field for foreign vs domestic items of comparable value,,, by making foreign imports more expensive to consumers, it reduces the amount spent on foreign imported items

this is a tightrope as china's the largest holder of u s debt

[jjtjr]

what ever you try to do to china as tariffs go is only backfire on the usa since they do all our manufacturing which includes medicines and it will cost us more $$$. Its like cutting off you nose to spite your face.

[Pedrocarrasco01@yahoo.com]

China is a Communist Country, remember Mao Zedong was responsible for killing over 20 MILLION of his people over 25 year period, they don’t care about the common people, yes I believe it was an engineered virus at the Wuhan Lab and unleashed by them, remember their economy was only hit by 3% and their economy has already recovered, also the virus only reached only a few in Bejing and almost no one in Shanghai, they are about 300 miles or less from Wuhan!!!!! The World Economy on the other hand is in shambles, both European and American Stocks are suffering badly and it may be years to recover!! God Bless and Guide America!!!!!!

[rlcooper70]

China is accountable for its part ... and the 12/15/19 Trade Agreement's "out" clause for acts of God make the actions of China criminal because they knew about the virus during the negotiations. WHO didn't hold China responsible and that may be criminal as well. BUT our leaders knew about this virus spreading and they are also responsible for pretending this was just another flu ... lots of people ducking accountability.

[Bridget Staunton]

Don’t shoot the messenger. Got it from a friend. The following are the barcodes for products sold in the US and the originating countries. I don’t know how accurate it is but I will pay attention when I shop, look at where it came from and then if that country matches the barcode

690-692 … then it is MADE IN CHINA
00 – 09 … USA & CANADA
30 – 37 FRANCE
40 – 44 GERMANY
471 … Taiwan
49 … JAPAN
50 … UK

[MandoMan]

Gracie, respectfully, you are uninformed. As has been reported in US media, US intelligence agencies are 100% CERTAIN this virus originated in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. What has not been publicly disclosed (yet) is if it has been definitively determined that its release was accidental or intentional.

This video concisely lays out the case for the lab-manipulated aspect to the virus. It is approximately 1 hr long. Watch just 10 minutes and you'll begin to understand. "Covid-19" is the WHO assigned "politically correct" name for this virus, which originated in Wuhan, China.

The first documentary movie on CCP virus, Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Coronavirus - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=3bXWGxhd7ic&feature=emb_logo)

I tend to strongly disagree with conspiracy theories and theorists. This video was made by the Falun Gong-run Epoch Times, which publishes a lot of anti-Chinese communist propaganda and has been largely banned from Facebook. However, I watched the whole thing and found it pretty compelling, except for the last ten minutes, which is primarily propaganda. There are a lot of notable experts interviewed, and a number of reputable scholarly articles quoted. I’d say, watch it.

I should mention that from 1983-84 I taught graduate students at a university in Beijing, before China allowed everyone to try a semi-free market system and make money. I am somewhat familiar with how the Chinese Communist Party ran things back then. I had friends who spent decades in Chinese prisons or work camps. I’m a friend of the Chinese, both here and there, and not entirely against the government, but I’m much more wary of it than are a lot of business people and governments. China always wins, every negotiation. The U.S. government was naive to think that tariffs would not lead to responses that hurt us.

As for those who say we should not buy anything made with Chinese ingredients, are there any cell phones, iPads, computers, televisions, or telephones that don’t have at least some parts made in China? I don’t think so. What American cars have no Chinese parts at all? None that I know of. And, always, what is done against the Chinese government is inevitably also done against the wonderful people of China. I am very much against prejudice against the Chinese, especially the ones who live here.

[Villages Kahuna]

Many of the same mistakes made by China were also made here in the U.S. Who do we punish here?

[bonrich]

I tend to believe that the virus was mishandled in their lab in Huan. I also believe that there were workers in that lab that were infected unknowingly. Further on I question why all travel in and out of Huan Province was prohibited. Was it because the mistake was found and the Chinese tried to contain the virus, not realizing that there were individuals that were infected with the virus and were already out and in the general population beyond Huan Province.
Then there is Italy. What I have read, true or not, was President Trump denied entry by Chinese into the USA but Italy not wanting to be refusing entry into their country, allowed Chinese into the northern part of Italy as workers were needed in that area. Blame, yes, because that is where it started and practically destroyed Italy. I don't know if Italy will ever be the same, changed forever.

I Remember as a young boy growing up, if I did something wrong, and I was confronted about it, and was warned, what happened was wrong, but lying about it was worse, and so was the punishment.
What can the world do to extract due punishment for being the cause of so many deaths, worldwide, financial ruin in so many Countries, and a changing of the lives of all of us. Find them, who would be "them, and give jail terms." Financial judgement, what number would be enough? Condemnation by the World, not trusted to do business with them, turn away and isolate their leadership or part in any International endeavors. To extract punishment from their leaders will also punish the Chinese people who were unknowingly affected by the cover-up . They too, will be blamed for the mess that has happened. I was in a Dr's office Monday and heard a patient, who is Chinese, say to the receptionist, that she is so hurt and so embarrassed by what was done by her people. Now she will carry the guilt, even though no part of the act. Will it get better as time moves on and a vaccine is discovered, please, that will control this virus and give us a protection against another round of infections?
The new buzz word is the "new normal."

[toeser]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

A place to start that would help the U.S. and provide some punishment to China is to move much of our drug manufacturing back to the U.S. There is an effective way to do that. Most new drug development uses funding from our National Institute of Health. Simply stipulate that any drug created while using government funds has to be manufactured in the U.S. - at least a big enough percentage to supply U.S. needs.

As a country, we should never again be in the position we are today, that is, relying on China for our safety gear and medicines.

[Mike193534]

It's easy to understand. The costs are always passed on to the consumer. But that's the real goal. To make Chinese products more expensive for the consumer so they'll try to source their products elsewhere.

To say China pays nothing is not really true. They will pay in lost sales if people can find their products from someone else cheaper. Whether we can actually find our products elsewhere is the catch right now. But even if the manufacturing doesn't come back to the U.S., Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, et al, are more than happy to step into the marketplace. If we add enough cost to Chinese manufactured goods to make the other countries competitive production will shift.

A good article from Forbes re: tariffs.

8,124 views|Jun 13, 2019,04:25am EDT
Who Really Pays For Tariffs? The Answer Isn't As Simple You'd Think
Jack Perkowski
Jack PerkowskiContributor
Asia

[greenflash245]

what is the evidence showing that the commies "unleashed" this on us? be specific as to what and a source

[dougjb]

Oh lawdy.....Chinese Conspiracy Theory #45.

When will these "theorists" ever just put a cork in it. Reading these theories which state, "I am told" (by whom) or "It is well established" (perhaps only in the poster's mind) reminds me just how ignorant and stupid people can be. Yes, harsh terms but well deserved. Either that or zealots who care not one whit about facts.

What is well known is that given our intelligence resources (which have been significantly degraded in the current administration), high levels of the US government knew COVID was coming (from whatever source). Unlike the response in many countries which have faced the same situation, the US response was (pick one): A) underwhelming, B) satisfactory, C) overwhelming, D) non-existent. We don't have to look any further than our own front yard if we realize we are number one in deaths and infection rates because of your answer above. Truman had a sign on his desk that said, "The buck stops here." It seems we now live in a country where our leaders (and their zealous followers) attempt to lay the blame on anyone and anything other than themselves.

Please stop with the Russian trolling propaganda. It doesn't serve us at all

[davem4616]

sitting here reading all these comments really makes me happy that there's no audio

can you imagine being in a room with everyone that's responding to this post trying to speak over one another at the same time

yikes

it's laughable that we, who have so very little real information on this whole covid-19 thing, can form such strong opinions

The days of isolationism are long gone...the world's economy is intertwined...it's like the wizard in the hot air balloon at the end of the Wizard of OZ....we can't go back

[Westie Man]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

It will be a long and slow change

[E Cascade]

If you want to find out what China is like and you have some time sitting at home, take a look at this. the CCP has no regard for life but to have power over it: China's problems with the Uyghurs (Documentary from 2014 in HD) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ3fG-tnzCk). There are other videos to see too. We need to stop using their meds or you'll find that you just might be taking more than you wanted.......

[mk1126]

ColdNoMore - You win this one, no matter the conspiracy theorists! It was the corporations, the CEO's, the stock market, Steve Jobs and Apple, the Walmarts, and... yes the consumer who shifted the manufacture basis overseas, be it Mexico, China, and then Vietnam, etc.
In these days, the world is way too much interconnected; Isolationism, hardly worked pre-World War I, it wouldn't succeed now. The way of the passenger pigeon - jobs, manufacturing, protectionism, coal production, and probably, soon, carbon burning automobiles...
(From someone who rallied about overseas production just several years ago)

[talktome]

Amen! Right on....if I can help it I will never buy another ANYTHING from China. I am working on that feat right now.

[ron32162]

Its has been proven China in December blocked domestic flights in and out of Wuhan also blocking roads in and out of Wuhan because of this virus being transmitted from person to person then allowing international flights to leave in turn infecting the rest of the world . The Virus cannot be proven to be intentional but the spread thru out the World intentionally can by their careless actions to contain it.

[Windguy]

Put a super large tariff on every item imported to the US from China.
A tariff on them is an indirect tax on us. It’s just another was to transfer wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy.

[Viperguy]

You may want to look into the history of the Chinese communist government. Millions of their people have been killed or incarcerated over the years. They don't care one iota about "human rights".

[riamd1954]

Totally agree and don’t eat Chinese food or go to Chinese nail salon!!Sorry to say sometimes the good ones will suffer but that’s how it goes !!

[ColdNoMore]

Did you miss the five guys rolling on the floor p--ing their pants in laughter ?

I don't think they caught that you were being totally facetious.

The giveaway should have been the laughing emoji's and ..."That is how it works I've been told.":shrug:

[ColdNoMore]

A tariff on them is an indirect tax on us. It’s just another was to transfer wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy.

Yep, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

But, a whole lot of people who never change their television channel (or their minds)...are completely unaware of this. :ohdear:

[TexaninVA]

Oh lawdy.....Chinese Conspiracy Theory #45.

When will these "theorists" ever just put a cork in it. Reading these theories which state, "I am told" (by whom) or "It is well established" (perhaps only in the poster's mind) reminds me just how ignorant and stupid people can be. Yes, harsh terms but well deserved. Either that or zealots who care not one whit about facts.

What is well known is that given our intelligence resources (which have been significantly degraded in the current administration), high levels of the US government knew COVID was coming (from whatever source). Unlike the response in many countries which have faced the same situation, the US response was (pick one): A) underwhelming, B) satisfactory, C) overwhelming, D) non-existent. We don't have to look any further than our own front yard if we realize we are number one in deaths and infection rates because of your answer above. Truman had a sign on his desk that said, "The buck stops here." It seems we now live in a country where our leaders (and their zealous followers) attempt to lay the blame on anyone and anything other than themselves.

Please stop with the Russian trolling propaganda. It doesn't serve us at all

There seems to be a correlation between people who use the term conspiracy theory and those who are in denial about the nature of the CCP. That’s understandable because most Americans are blissfully ignorant of CCP doctrine.

This interview with a USAF General, which happened prior to the pandemic, will prove helpful to those who would actually like to educate themselves on what we’re facing.

Is the US-China Trade War a Cold War? (w/ Kyle Bass and Gen. Robert Spalding) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=kl5279dWqGs&feature=emb_logo)


...

[graciegirl]

Let’s not forget our President tried to tell us thus was no big deal knowing full well it was. The result was, for example, a continuation of life as usual here for over two weeks because the typical Villager listened. Should the rest of the world boycott US products?

I don't understand your post in answer to my post. I said this is a world wide problem and the only area's I see unaffected greatly at this point are Africa and South America. Australia and New Zealand ARE badly affected. Why are you talking about the President? He is not a skilled medical professional. At this point, talking about boycotting products has NOTHING to do with the serious issue of Covid-19 and the danger to all of us. We can sort out where it came from and who if anyone to blame, later on, after we address the issue at hand which is trying to keep as many people alive from this brand new bug that no one in the world has had before and there are no medicines or therapies that are proven to combat it.

[graciegirl]

ColdNoMore - You win this one, no matter the conspiracy theorists! It was the corporations, the CEO's, the stock market, Steve Jobs and Apple, the Walmarts, and... yes the consumer who shifted the manufacture basis overseas, be it Mexico, China, and then Vietnam, etc.
In these days, the world is way too much interconnected; Isolationism, hardly worked pre-World War I, it wouldn't succeed now. The way of the passenger pigeon - jobs, manufacturing, protectionism, coal production, and probably, soon, carbon burning automobiles...
(From someone who rallied about overseas production just several years ago)

I recall it as being President Bush. No. It was Nixon.
what president opened trade with china - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=what+president+opened+trade+with+china&form=EDGHPT&qs=RI&cvid=dea54606a3164d3e9a0db0f2f3dd751f&cc=US&setlang=en-US&elv=AQj93OAhDTi*HzTv1paQdnig*9TvUxrEX6NxNMp1dm2xt8 myCjfanUlGdgNTWp79UPpdo*sDnxyZefgro6KeRKDl3N98zmGe oaBL9XIVeSBl&plvar=0&PC=DCTS)

[TexaninVA]

I tend to strongly disagree with conspiracy theories and theorists. This video was made by the Falun Gong-run Epoch Times, which publishes a lot of anti-Chinese communist propaganda and has been largely banned from Facebook. However, I watched the whole thing and found it pretty compelling, except for the last ten minutes, which is primarily propaganda. There are a lot of notable experts interviewed, and a number of reputable scholarly articles quoted. I’d say, watch it.

I should mention that from 1983-84 I taught graduate students at a university in Beijing, before China allowed everyone to try a semi-free market system and make money. I am somewhat familiar with how the Chinese Communist Party ran things back then. I had friends who spent decades in Chinese prisons or work camps. I’m a friend of the Chinese, both here and there, and not entirely against the government, but I’m much more wary of it than are a lot of business people and governments. China always wins, every negotiation. The U.S. government was naive to think that tariffs would not lead to responses that hurt us.

As for those who say we should not buy anything made with Chinese ingredients, are there any cell phones, iPads, computers, televisions, or telephones that don’t have at least some parts made in China? I don’t think so. What American cars have no Chinese parts at all? None that I know of. And, always, what is done against the Chinese government is inevitably also done against the wonderful people of China. I am very much against prejudice against the Chinese, especially the ones who live here.

Your post, which was excellent, is one of the rare ones on this topic wherein someone who has experience with the topic, China, and has observed the CCP up close and personal so to speak. And, more impressive, you were actually willing to watch the content of the link the OP posted.

The video was compelling and w/r/t it being made by a Falun Gong, it’s understandable why the FG are not big fans of the CCP. There have been instances where FG political prisoners have had their organs harvested and then sold.

I would finally note that no one who knows anything about this topic is trying to stigmatize the Chinese people. The CCP is the problem and the threat to our country


...

[ColdNoMore]

I guarantee that given the choice the vast majority of people will go for the cheapest item.
Wherever it is made!

PS. Tariffs work both ways.
Ask US farmers how well they work!

Except farms, mostly owned by large corporations not mom & pop legacy farmers, were bailed out at the tune of... twice as much as the auto manufacturers.

The biggest difference between the two?

Auto companies mostly paid back, with interest, their bailouts/loans.

Farms are under no similar requirements...so those BILLIONS are simply gone forever.

Yeah, shooting oneself in the foot...can be expensive. :ohdear:

[TexaninVA]

A tariff on them is an indirect tax on us. It’s just another was to transfer wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy.

Has it occurred to you that the people who really got rich off outsourcing American manufacturing capabilities to China trade were the corporatists and globalists of both parties?

[ColdNoMore]

ColdNoMore - You win this one, no matter the conspiracy theorists! It was the corporations, the CEO's, the stock market, Steve Jobs and Apple, the Walmarts, and... yes the consumer who shifted the manufacture basis overseas, be it Mexico, China, and then Vietnam, etc.
In these days, the world is way too much interconnected; Isolationism, hardly worked pre-World War I, it wouldn't succeed now. The way of the passenger pigeon - jobs, manufacturing, protectionism, coal production, and probably, soon, carbon burning automobiles...
(From someone who rallied about overseas production just several years ago)

Yep, but it's so much easier to try & blame someone else...than to look in the mirror.

That would take the most lacking characteristic in our country right now...honesty. :ohdear:

[TexaninVA]

And although I DO give a rat's behind, if some people refuse to want to learn from history and correct their mistakes...there's not much I can personally do about it. :oops:

I also care about those control freaks, who always try to direct conversations...in the direction they want them to go.

:ho:

Wow, talk about projection. :ohdear:

[Aces4]

I guarantee that given the choice the vast majority of people will go for the cheapest item.
Wherever it is made!

PS. Tariffs work both ways.
Ask US farmers how well they work!

You can guarantee nothing. We certainly are not wealthy but opted to pay almost $1,500. more for flooring in our home to keep those wonderful facilities in neighboring state, Dalton, GA alive and running. Their product is excellent and when shopping anytime we make an effort to avoid “Made in China” products. I have a feeling those espousing Chinese goods have some Chinese stock in their funds or portfolios.

[Topspinmo]

Why is it so important to blame and point fingers right now? There will be time to investigate the origin after we learn to fight this virus.

Say reason you point finger at the gun and not the killer.

[tomhinz]

I think that most if not all of us think that because China hates the US, that the act was deliberate.

[tomhinz]

COME ON! Do you actually believe it was an act of God? So widespread

[Topspinmo]

I think that most if not all of us think that because China hates the US, that the act was deliberate.

They should love us, they steal, lie, cheat, and our government even hands out money to them in aid thinking it will make difference

[OhioBuckeye]

Well I think we have to tread lightly when we point fingers. The WHO is suppose to protect the world, not keep secrets for another country & protect them, even if it is the U.S., China or any other country! Also why does the U.S. pay 400 million into the WHO, for what & China 30 million? If that's true what our govt. tells us. We should of been given a heads up on this virus & if it was us that cause the virus, other countries should of been warned. Probably won't know the real reason because the govt. have a lot of secrets that they don't tell us.

[blueash]

It may be true that this virus was an act of God (yet to be proven) but the Chinese Gov't. failed to listen to their own Dr's and allowed 3 million people to travel all over the world during the Chinese New Year (including 450,000 to the US) without a warning.


I don't know how quickly information got from Wuhan to whomever makes the decisions. What has been reported is that a few people were seriously ill in Wuhan with something that a small group of doctors thought was new and contagious. They didn't know what it was, but clearly they were right. How long did China delay?

There are no dates earlier than Dec 30 that I can find for a definitive diagnosis of a SARS like virus. This is HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang) in a Wikipedia page on the doctor who sent reports out when he saw the lab report and was reprimanded by the government, and later died of COVID. Dr Li issued his warning not to the government but to other doctors to wear PPE as he was aware of 7 case (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51409801)s.

Dr Li, an ophthalmologist, posted his story on Weibo from a hospital bed a month after sending out his initial warning.
He had noticed seven cases of a virus that he thought looked like Sars - the virus that led to a global epidemic in 2003.
On 30 December he sent a message to fellow doctors in a chat group warning them to wear protective clothing to avoid infection.

On Jan 5 (https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-january-2020-pneumonia-of-unkown-cause-china/en/), less than one week later, the WHO released its initial statement on the still un-identified virus.

Does that sound like a major delay? How long did it take our government to react to HIV/AIDS? To blame the Chinese for not shutting everything down because of a few deaths in a single city is a wonderful example of 20/20 hindsight. How long did it take the US to shut down anything, already knowing what was coming, that it was deadly and untreatable? How hard did people here in The Villages fight against closing swimming pools and pickleball courts, because everything seemed fine.

Some has posted here as evidence of the Great Chinese Conspiracy that they didn't ask for us to send our CDC to help. I don't recall our country asking for outside help with our health care problems. China, believe it or not, actually has a lot of bright scientists and doctors and their own CDC which managed to produce test kits that actually worked unlike ours.

We know what COVID is whereas China did not at the end of Dec and early Jan. Even knowing how easily it spreads and how deadly it can be, and with 100's and 1000's of known cases, what is our leadership most worried about now? Why the need to open up our economy. This was best expressed by a few people who are shall I gently say, to the right of the midline...
Dr Oz, regular contributor on one highly watched network, who opined that a 2 to 3 % death rate was preferable to keeping schools closed. And the Lt. Gov of Texas who said grandparents are willing to die if that is what is needed to save the economy, and then doubled down on that message more this week on Fox:

“There are more important things than living, and that’s saving this country for my children and grandchildren and saving this country for all of us,” he said Monday.
“I don’t want to die," he added. “Nobody wants to die, but man we gotta take some risks and get back in the game and get this country back up and running.”
The Texas official stood by his March remarks and said the country “should not have been locked down.”

So if I'm understanding the anti-China argument...because they were worried about their economy they failed to lock down after a few cases and before they'd identified an organism BUT per the GOP person who is a apparently thoughtful enough to be a regular FOX guest, Texas should not have been locked down because the economy is more important than lives, especially old people.

My neck is sore from the whiplash.

What should China have done sooner? I doubt our country would have responded any more quickly had it begun here.

[Queenie504]

We are all one world. Hate and ignorance will get you nowhere.

[TexaninVA]

They should love us, they steal, lie, cheat, and our government even hands out money to them in aid thinking it will make difference

To your excellent point, we have an ample supply (unfortunately) of people who are either blissfully naïve to the CCP threat or, worse, criminally complicit and therefore literally treasonous. For example, with respect to the latter, back in late January just as the virus pandemic was getting underway :

"The Department of Justice announced today that the Chair of Harvard University’s Chemistry and Chemical Biology Department and two Chinese nationals have been charged in connection with aiding the People’s Republic of China.

Dr. Charles Lieber, 60, Chair of the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Harvard University, was arrested this morning and charged by criminal complaint with one count of making a materially false, fictitious and fraudulent statement. Lieber will appear this afternoon before Magistrate Judge Marianne B. Bowler in federal court in Boston, Massachusetts.

Yanqing Ye, 29, a Chinese national, was charged in an indictment today with one count each of visa fraud, making false statements, acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy. Ye is currently in China.

Zaosong Zheng, 30, a Chinese national, was arrested on Dec. 10, 2019, at Boston’s Logan International Airport and charged by criminal complaint with attempting to smuggle 21 vials of biological research to China. On Jan. 21, 2020, Zheng was indicted on one count of smuggling goods from the United States and one count of making false, fictitious or fraudulent statements. He has been detained since Dec. 30, 2019 ... " :shocked:

For those who don't understand how this works, the CCP is calling the shots here, not the Chinese people per se. It's one of numerous examples I could cite, with sources, wherein the CCP is at war with America but some of us still don't get it. Fortunately, more people are waking up to what should be obvious by now.

Harvard University Professor and Two Chinese Nationals Charged in Three Separate China Related Cases | OPA | Department of Justice (https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related)


...

[TexaninVA]

We are all one world. Hate and ignorance will get you nowhere.

Ignorance of the nature of CCP is especially toxic.

[graciegirl]

I don't know how quickly information got from Wuhan to whomever makes the decisions. What has been reported is that a few people were seriously ill in Wuhan with something that a small group of doctors thought was new and contagious. They didn't know what it was, but clearly they were right. How long did China delay?

There are no dates earlier than Dec 30 that I can find for a definitive diagnosis of a SARS like virus. This is HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang) in a Wikipedia page on the doctor who sent reports out when he saw the lab report and was reprimanded by the government, and later died of COVID. Dr Li issued his warning not to the government but to other doctors to wear PPE as he was aware of 7 case (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51409801)s.



On Jan 5 (https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-january-2020-pneumonia-of-unkown-cause-china/en/), less than one week later, the WHO released its initial statement on the still un-identified virus.

Does that sound like a major delay? How long did it take our government to react to HIV/AIDS? To blame the Chinese for not shutting everything down because of a few deaths in a single city is a wonderful example of 20/20 hindsight. How long did it take the US to shut down anything, already knowing what was coming, that it was deadly and untreatable? How hard did people here in The Villages fight against closing swimming pools and pickleball courts, because everything seemed fine.

Some has posted here as evidence of the Great Chinese Conspiracy that they didn't ask for us to send our CDC to help. I don't recall our country asking for outside help with our health care problems. China, believe it or not, actually has a lot of bright scientists and doctors and their own CDC which managed to produce test kits that actually worked unlike ours.

We know what COVID is whereas China did not at the end of Dec and early Jan. Even knowing how easily it spreads and how deadly it can be, and with 100's and 1000's of known cases, what is our leadership most worried about now? Why the need to open up our economy. This was best expressed by a few people who are shall I gently say, to the right of the midline...
Dr Oz, regular contributor on one highly watched network, who opined that a 2 to 3 % death rate was preferable to keeping schools closed. And the Lt. Gov of Texas who said grandparents are willing to die if that is what is needed to save the economy, and then doubled down on that message more this week on Fox:



So if I'm understanding the anti-China argument...because they were worried about their economy they failed to lock down after a few cases and before they'd identified an organism BUT per the GOP person who is a apparently thoughtful enough to be a regular FOX guest, Texas should not have been locked down because the economy is more important than lives, especially old people.

My neck is sore from the whiplash.

What should China have done sooner? I doubt our country would have responded any more quickly had it begun here.

Well said. Thank you.

[rustyp]

When did politics get invited to the party?

The very first sentence of the original post by JGVillages


It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world.

thus for my posts
- Remember Nov 3 was your interpretation of a voting for one position
- No more political than the entire thread
- Never communicated my own political persuasions if any
- Offered no personal position if I agreed or not that China should be punished

[blueash]

I think that most if not all of us think that because China hates the US, that the act was deliberate.

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

[jmcica@aol.com]

I shop online for clothes- I have to contact seller or boutique to find out where prod is made. Many times it says shipped from US or something similar.china has taken so much from US- I will do my part from here on in.

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

[TexaninVA]

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

Your post is an excellent example of the CCP Denial Syndrome, coupled with a touch of mea culpa.

[PugMom]

No. My common sense is making me think that it is preposterous to think a country would launch a pandemic that harmed it's own people.

I have never sued anyone in my life, nor been sued.
i tend to agree with you. we know there is a lab located in china that works with viruses, & the way things look, it was accidentally released. it festered round china, then moved to italy, iran, spain, etc before it got to us in full force. if china wanted it to hit just us, i'd think they'd find a better way to do it. as for products made in china; i've stopped buying them long ago, esp anything pet-food related

[B767drvr]

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death...

Just trying to follow your logic...

China, in an unprecedented move in world history, completely quarantined some 60+ MILLION of its citizens, but had NO IDEA of "what was coming or how bad it could be"? Why the quarantine then? Isn't it more likely they knew they were dealing with a novel virus that transmitted human to human, thus the imposition of the quarantine? It is my understanding they denied its human to human transmission for another approximately three weeks.

Let's not overlook or dismiss that the quarantine DID NOT include international air travel to other countries. If they were alarmed enough to quarantine 60+ million domestically, why allow the virus to spread to the rest of the world via air travel? Obviously this was a CHOICE by the CCP not to shutdown international air travel concurrent with the domestic quarantine. Why did they make that CHOICE?

[xcaligirl]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"
If I cannot find WHERE the company is located or where they are actually shipping from, I don't order the product. I'm better off without it! Learned the hard way...

[sallybowron]

My son took his family to Hawaii on spring break. He and his daughter got really sick and had to return home. He is a doctor but the Corona thing had not been published yet. Yesterday he said he wonders if he and Little Keva didn't have the corona virus.

[GoodLife]

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

You are spectacularly misinformed.

December 6: According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.

December 21: Wuhan doctors begin to notice a “cluster of pneumonia cases with an unknown cause.”

December 25: Chinese medical staff in two hospitals in Wuhan are suspected of contracting viral pneumonia and are quarantined. This is additional strong evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Sometime in “Late December”: Wuhan hospitals notice “an exponential increase” in the number of cases that cannot be linked back to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, according to the New England Journal of Medicine

December 30: Dr. Li Wenliang sent a message to a group of other doctors warning them about a possible outbreak of an illness that resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), urging them to take protective measures against infection.

December 31: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares, “The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infection.” This is the opposite of the belief of the doctors working on patients in Wuhan, and two doctors were already suspected of contracting the virus.

January 3: The Chinese government continued efforts to suppress all information about the virus: “China’s National Health Commission, the nation’s top health authority, ordered institutions not to publish any information related to the unknown disease, and ordered labs to transfer any samples they had to designated testing institutions, or to destroy them."

January 5: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission put out a statement with updated numbers of cases but repeated, “preliminary investigations have shown no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infections.”

January 14: Wuhan city health authorities release another statement declaring, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.” Wuhan doctors have known this was false since early December, from the first victim and his wife, who did not visit the market.

The World Health Organization echoes China’s assessment: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.”

This is five or six weeks after the first evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan.

January 21 Chinese officials finally acknowledge human to human transmission of the virus.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Reported on Fox News TV newscast... prior to issuing a written report, sources will often speak anonymously about its contents which is what Fox News reported as a "Breaking Story."

Reported on Fox News . . . sources will often speak anonymously

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[cherylncliff]

Tariffs are paid by consumers, not China and not the importer. If you have not figured this out, then go take Econ 101.

[crc19188]

There is a way to look at the bar code on items to see where they come from. You may have to Google it.

[Astron]

If you would like a legal standard of "proof," maybe you should sue the Chinese Communist Party in a court of law and find out if they really did it?
Missouri is trying to do that, but is likely to have the case tossed out. Nations have sovereign immunity against such suits, according to the reports I have been reading.

Pandemics have happened before and will happen again. The problems we are facing are a direct result of our Own failure as nation to properly prepare for the inevitable pandemic. It is not the failure of any one politician or political party. There is more than enough blame for everyone at all levels of government for generations gone by. Since pandemics occur infrequently, we collectively chose to ignore the known risk. We are now paying the price for our collective failures to prepare.

[Phinbob]

If that would help I would be all for it. But first someone has to prove to me that it was a deliberate act rather than a natural occurrence.
Their attempted cover-up and deceit to the rest of the world was not a natural occurrence.

[John41]

Buying cheap imported goods may benefit the consumer short term but when their job goes overseas not in the long term.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There is a way to look at the bar code on items to see where they come from. You may have to Google it.

I googled it. Turns out there is an urban legend that you can look at the bar code to see where they come from, the the legend is not based on fact. The UPC code does not provide the consumer with any verification of origin.

[graciegirl]

Their attempted cover-up and deceit to the rest of the world was not a natural occurrence.

Where is there verification of deceit and cover-up? I followed the news of this from the beginning when people were beginning to die in Wuhan and the doctors being alarmed about it. This is an awful thing to believe unsubstantiated rumors. This is a side of the human condition I had not seen before. This is the reasons wars begin. People leaping to hate without evidence of wrong doing.

[Two Bills]

You can guarantee nothing. We certainly are not wealthy but opted to pay almost $1,500. more for flooring in our home to keep those wonderful facilities in neighboring state, Dalton, GA alive and running. Their product is excellent and when shopping anytime we make an effort to avoid “Made in China” products. I have a feeling those espousing Chinese goods have some Chinese stock in their funds or portfolios.

I have no stocks whatsoever, all assets are in cash, so that doesn't fly.
As for your efforts to buy American only, I salute you.
However the majority of USA will continue to buy from abroad unless corporate America, Wall Street, and the stockholders agree to take a heavy kick in their wallets, to bring manufacturing back to USA.
You do not need to be a genius to work out that the average consumer will continue to buy cheaper products from abroad, wherever they are manufactured
Many do not have the income to be as noble as yourself.

[GoodLife]

Where is there verification of deceit and cover-up? I followed the news of this from the beginning when people were beginning to die in Wuhan and the doctors being alarmed about it. This is an awful thing to believe unsubstantiated rumors. This is a side of the human condition I had not seen before. This is the reasons wars begin. People leaping to hate without evidence of wrong doing.

see post #101

[TexaninVA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by B767drvr View Post
Reported on Fox News TV newscast... prior to issuing a written report, sources will often speak anonymously about its contents which is what Fox News reported as a "Breaking Story."
Quote:
Reported on Fox News . . . sources will often speak anonymously




:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

So sayeth the person who watches MSNBC 24x7 ?:MOJE_whot:

[TexaninVA]

Missouri is trying to do that, but is likely to have the case tossed out. Nations have sovereign immunity against such suits, according to the reports I have been reading.

Pandemics have happened before and will happen again. The problems we are facing are a direct result of our Own failure as nation to properly prepare for the inevitable pandemic. It is not the failure of any one politician or political party. There is more than enough blame for everyone at all levels of government for generations gone by. Since pandemics occur infrequently, we collectively chose to ignore the known risk. We are now paying the price for our collective failures to prepare.

I actually agree with the gist of your post ... no one is ever fully prepared and plenty of bipartisan blame to go around. Human nature is ... don't really worry about it until the s*** hits the fan so to speak. Pandemics have indeed happened before, and will again.

The one key difference is, as far as can tell, this is the first one that's ever traced back to a bioweapons lab.


...

[TexaninVA]

I have no stocks whatsoever, all assets are in cash, so that doesn't fly.
As for your efforts to buy American only, I salute you.
However the majority of USA will continue to buy from abroad unless corporate America, Wall Street, and the stockholders agree to take a heavy kick in their wallets, to bring manufacturing back to USA.
You do not need to be a genius to work out that the average consumer will continue to buy cheaper products from abroad, wherever they are manufactured
Many do not have the income to be as noble as yourself.

I think you make a good point. Corporate America and especilaly Wall St has to get off their China addiction. We need to suck it up and figure out a way to do this fairly such that the middle class benefits but ... and this is easier said than done ... we need to start moving our most important supply chains out of China.

The longer we wait, the harder it gets and it's already exceedingly difficult to do.

...

[TexaninVA]

Where is there verification of deceit and cover-up? I followed the news of this from the beginning when people were beginning to die in Wuhan and the doctors being alarmed about it. This is an awful thing to believe unsubstantiated rumors. This is a side of the human condition I had not seen before. This is the reasons wars begin. People leaping to hate without evidence of wrong doing.

If one seeks, they will find. (in both this thread and the Chinese intel thread)

[vayssie1]

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"
Bar Codes 00-08 US and Canada. 30-37 France, 40-44 Germany, 471 Taiwan, 49 Japan, 50 UK.
690-692 CHINA

[graciegirl]

If one seeks, they will find. (in both this thread and the Chinese intel thread)

I don't see any proof. I have been drilled in my life to consider the source. I think it is very wise to watch all three major networks for HARD NEWS not opinions, and buddy, that takes patience. Although I do not always agree with the OPINIONS posted, I think the following sources are the most dependable as far as fact checking; The New York Times, The Washington Post, The AP Wire, The Guardian, and Reuters.

I have noticed that all three major networks have shown a slight change toward moderation since the beginning of March of this year. I witnessed Drew Pinsky on Fox tell us it was all a huge hoax in early Marchand he has since publicly apologized and most likely won't work in that capacity again. This Covid-19 epidemic was not up to the skill level of the television network doctors we have listened to for the past 10-15 years, simply because no one knows with authority what is going to happen next. There are too many unanswered questions that need to be carefully analyzed after we can all run some hard numbers AFTER we get more hard data and know who we can trust to tell us the truth. I know myself personally has changed a lot in my political opinions as I watch both sides babble on and play politics.

[TexaninVA]

I think it is very wise to watch all three major networks for HARD NEWS not opinions, and buddy, that takes patience. Although I do not always agree with the OPINIONS posted, I think the following sources are the most dependable as far as fact checking; The New York Times, The Washington Post....

I have explained it to you in previous posts, as have others. I earlier made a comment about speaking to an inanimate object but that was pulled so I'm trying to be more judicious.

I will give you credit though ... you've identified the source of your inability to comprende the topic.

Do you really think the prestige media reports are unbiased, totally fair, and have no skin in the game? Do you think that they are split in their political preferences or more like 90-10 against you know who.

You've got to be kidding but I know you're not.

[TexaninVA]

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

Look at what you said here:

"This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. …China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties."

Poor China, I feel so bad for them. We are so mean to them, aren’t we?

However, I actually agree with you about both parties being to blame, but in the context of domestic donkeys and elephants. There are examples of POTUS’s early comments along with the Speakers public denial in Chinatown SF of any virus problem in late Feb. There are also many examples of prestige media saying it was a non-problem an no worries, mixed with condemnations of supposed xenophobia, racism and the usual verbal clubs.

Human nature being what it is, very few of us would have consented to a lockdown much sooner than it occurred. It’s also inevitable this will become politicized and we’ll each be convinced the other side are wacko extremists etc., and vote accordingly in November.

For the record, no one has evidence that the CCP deliberately unleashed the Wuhan virus as a weapon but there is evidence it likely came out of the CCP’s bioweapons lab in some form or fashion. The IC is analyzing it … maybe we’ll hear something publicly at some point, and maybe not. That could have a certain pucker factor associated with it, depending on what they find, but especially if they conclude the virus was, in effect, a biological 9/11.

The real issue is what should we be doing to counter the threat posed by the CCP to our country. That’s a more fruitful area for discussion and education IMO. You have excellent analytical skills. You could put them to use, for example, by providing a constructive critique of this video, which I posted earlier, but repeat here for convenience. I’m sure many would be interested to read your detailed analysis of what the Brigadier General says herein. (note: this interview occurred before the virus issue emerged)

Is the US-China Trade War a Cold War? (w/ Kyle Bass and Gen. Robert Spalding) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl5279dWqGs&list=PLc_EpmKgQgEzvtmw4ZhdqjdUYKk7hw3vC&index=10&t=0s)

...

[spieka1912]

If you want to be knowledgeable as to what, where and why this virus began - read this,
then open the website shown below and read it all. It is long but it should be read in its entirety.
You may need to cut and paste to read, it is worth the effort.

ALCON,
Sent to me by my USSOCOM compatriots with their connections to the Pentagon and D.C. strategic advisory groups.

In condensed form synopsis---It's a massive rally speech by a Top Level Chinese General (similar to our Joint Chief of Staff level)
talking about the mistakes Germany and Japan made in WW2, against America. ....and how China will not make those mistakes.
It talks about Chinese people being the superior race on the globe, and the hatred they have of America, with its expansive living areas, blue skies and puffy-white-clouds. China is over-crowded and polluted, and they hate the fact that we're not. Talks about how they are absolutely "Using" America to get the technology secrets they want (by spying / theft) and bolster their position globally. He uses analogies to describe the unavoidable conflict of China vs. America = two goliaths on a small, narrow country road--Only "One" Can Pass. He talks about NOT using nuclear weapons, because that would be a "No-Win" scenario for everyone. Then, about 3/4 ths. into the speech, near the bottom, he flat out describes China's plan to use a "stealthy" bio-weapon to paralyze the globe, and wipe out the lives and economy of America and any firm allies we have.

And so, here we are.......COVID-19. It goes straight for your lungs and tries to "drown you" in fluid. It's not, THE FLU. It mutates and changes on its own.

The Secret Speech of General Chi Haotian – J.R. Nyquist (https://jrnyquist.blog/2019/09/11/the-secret-speech-of-general-chi-haotian/)

This was NOT an accident of nature, this was deliberate.

[junction29]

If you want to be knowledgeable as to what, where and why this virus began - read this,
then open the website shown below and read it all. It is long but it should be read in its entirety.
You may need to cut and paste to read, it is worth the effort.

ALCON,
Sent to me by my USSOCOM compatriots with their connections to the Pentagon and D.C. strategic advisory groups.

In condensed form synopsis---It's a massive rally speech by a Top Level Chinese General (similar to our Joint Chief of Staff level)
talking about the mistakes Germany and Japan made in WW2, against America. ....and how China will not make those mistakes.
It talks about Chinese people being the superior race on the globe, and the hatred they have of America, with its expansive living areas, blue skies and puffy-white-clouds. China is over-crowded and polluted, and they hate the fact that we're not. Talks about how they are absolutely "Using" America to get the technology secrets they want (by spying / theft) and bolster their position globally. He uses analogies to describe the unavoidable conflict of China vs. America = two goliaths on a small, narrow country road--Only "One" Can Pass. He talks about NOT using nuclear weapons, because that would be a "No-Win" scenario for everyone. Then, about 3/4 ths. into the speech, near the bottom, he flat out describes China's plan to use a "stealthy" bio-weapon to paralyze the globe, and wipe out the lives and economy of America and any firm allies we have.

And so, here we are.......COVID-19. It goes straight for your lungs and tries to "drown you" in fluid. It's not, THE FLU. It mutates and changes on its own.

The Secret Speech of General Chi Haotian – J.R. Nyquist (https://jrnyquist.blog/2019/09/11/the-secret-speech-of-general-chi-haotian/)

This was NOT an accident of nature, this was deliberate.

Well said and in my opinion, spot on.

China does not think in the same terms as us and whilst I have not issue with the Chinese people, I have major issues with the Chinese Government, they don’t bother how many deaths occur, either in their country nor any others as long as they end up as the top dog.

There MUST be a very extensive and world wide crackdown on buying goods from China and bringing manufacturing back into the West 👍

Yes many people want and can only afford the cheapest products, but buying Chinese goods to save a few dollars is very very short sighted.

[TexaninVA]

Well said and in my opinion, spot on.

China does not think in the same terms as us and whilst I have not issue with the Chinese people, I have major issues with the Chinese Government, they don’t bother how many deaths occur, either in their country nor any others as long as they end up as the top dog.

There MUST be a very extensive and world wide crackdown on buying goods from China and bringing manufacturing back into the West 👍

Yes many people want and can only afford the cheapest products, but buying Chinese goods to save a few dollars is very very short sighted.

Agree, and just to add to your post a bit ...

We need to keep in mind that whenever we refer to "the Chinese government" we are essentially referring to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP is "the problem" by definition, and the organization within China that calls the shots.

Interestingly enough, the most important mission of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) is to defend the CCP.


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[ficoguy]

Remember when Kim DIng Dong said we were getting a Christmas present and everyone thought it was another rocket? Oh hell no, this was way better gift..problem is he had to deliver it thru China because the USPS doesn't pick up there....:boom:

[Love2Swim]

Gracie, respectfully, you are uninformed. As has been reported in US media, US intelligence agencies are 100% CERTAIN this virus originated in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. What has not been publicly disclosed (yet) is if it has been definitively determined that its release was accidental or intentional.

This video concisely lays out the case for the lab-manipulated aspect to the virus. It is approximately 1 hr long. Watch just 10 minutes and you'll begin to understand. "Covid-19" is the WHO assigned "politically correct" name for this virus, which originated in Wuhan, China.




The first documentary movie on CCP virus, Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Coronavirus - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=3bXWGxhd7ic&feature=emb_logo)

Respectfully, you need to get your facts straight. All the science says that the virus was not engineered or man-made, but its origins remain unclear. This business about it coming from a Chinese lab is another conspiracy theory.. sigh...

[TexaninVA]

Respectfully, you need to get your facts straight. All the science says that the virus was not engineered or man-made, but its origins remain unclear. This business about it coming from a Chinese lab is another conspiracy theory.. sigh...

Respectfully, my facts are straight. More accurately, it's a reasonable explanation not the dreaded "conspiracy theory." :ohdear:

You can better inform yourself by viewing an analysis largely based on CNN reporting, which I'm guessing is one of your go to sources.

Coronavirus Began in Chinese Lab? US Investigates - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Dw7mPt-zM&feature=emb_logo)


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