The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation

[GoodLife]

Interesting opinion from Dr Scott Atlas of Stanford

The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation)

[dewilson58]

Think if NY would have acted sooner.


:ohdear:

[blueash]

Dr. Atlas was reasonably straight forward until he reached his suggestions.

Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.

As many have noted many and maybe most of the deaths are in residents of nursing homes and other elder care facilities. Dr. Atlas acknowledges the need for "highly restricted entry" but he doesn't tell us how to do that. Not his job.

The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions.

How do you strictly protect the known vulnerable? It is not just those in nursing homes, it is the elderly here, and in every city and town everywhere? It is an attempt to strictly protect the vulnerable that the present policies were put in place. Self-isolating the sick should be done. But as Dr. Atlas reports, the majority of disease spreaders are not sick. So how do you isolate the virus spreading well? He doesn't define prudent, he presents no options for how to strictly isolate, nor how to keep mildly ill almost all of whom will not know they have COVID, and importantly non-ill COVID spreaders away from those of us who are vulnerable to severe illness.

His "Fact 4" is absolutely not a fact. It is his opinion on what might be happening.
Most states and many hospitals abruptly stopped “nonessential” procedures and surgery
That is true. But the conclusion he draws that people are dying because they are not having nonessential procedures belies the meaning of the word nonessential. It is not true that hospitals are not providing care to non-COVID patients. People with chest pain are receiving care. People with stroke symptoms are receiving care. Are there some people hesitant to go to the ER with these symptoms, yes, and there have always been people who die at home because they hesitated. Are there more people hesitating, maybe and perhaps likely, but there is no evidence for that. If cardiologists are doing fewer consults for chest pain that is not the same as saying people with heart attacks are being missed.
Dr Scott W Atlas is a frequent writer on the intersect of politics and health. His Forbes profile (https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottatlas/#23607f3077b6) shows which political side he supports. It doesn't make him wrong, or right, but it helps to understand the lens with which he comments.
The report linked is from 4/22
Dr Atlas has been tweeting his thoughts about COVID for many weeks. He expressed the same anti-isolation belief
On Mar 13 he tweeted:
1) if no symptoms, you don't need testing
2) no medical reason to broadly close schools
3) old sicker people are the worry, NOT most people
4) if no symptoms, far less likely to be contagious
5) panic fueled by hysterical media non-experts

He also in his Hoover institute tweets, attacks Al Gore, Bernie S, Obama, and Elizabeth Warren, while praising Reagan, Trump, and Thatcher. He is not a neutral observer. Apparently he thought the facts were in by early March.
See his #4? Read that and then this COVID-19 patients most contagious 1 to 2 days before symptoms: Study (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/04/17/covid-19-patients-most-contagious-1-2-days-before-symptoms/5143641002/)

[iaudit]

I see his field of expertise is neuro radiology. I don’t know if I would take his observations and reasoning over those of Dr, Fauci.

[Travelhunter]

I think we need a verified treatment plan and vaccine
Our government should fund all reasonable grants and offer a billion dollar award to any entity that can protect, treat or defeat this illness

[GoodLife]

I see his field of expertise is neuro radiology. I don’t know if I would take his observations and reasoning over those of Dr, Fauci.

Dr Fauci has made some seriously blunderous statements

“This is not a major threat for the people in United States, and this is not something the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about”

"Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."

“Even if there’s a rare asymptomatic person that might transmit, an epidemic is not driven by asymptomatic carriers,”

[blueash]

Dr Fauci has made some seriously blunderous statements

“This is not a major threat for the people in United States, and this is not something the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about”

"Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."

“Even if there’s a rare asymptomatic person that might transmit, an epidemic is not driven by asymptomatic carriers,”

And yes, Fauci was wrong. And when the data changed, he adjusted his opinion. See that's how science works. You have a theory, you test it, and where it fails, you adjust. Fauci has adjusted. Dr. Atlas has not. Doesn't make him wrong. Does make him an ideolog.

[doyle31]

Blueash: Thank you for setting the record straight!!

[Windguy]

See that's how science works. You have a theory, you test it.
Actually, if you are talking science, theories are already well tested. Hypothesis is the correct term to use.

[Love2Swim]

And yes, Fauci was wrong. And when the data changed, he adjusted his opinion. See that's how science works. You have a theory, you test it, and where it fails, you adjust. Fauci has adjusted. Dr. Atlas has not. Doesn't make him wrong. Does make him an ideolog.

Fauci said "right now" in quote #1. And at that time he was probably correct. When circumstances changed, so did his response. Same with the response to the mask wearing. The third quote about asymptomatic carriers was taken out of context. In the same conversation he admitted they didn't have good numbers to trust, he had uncertainty about his own numbers and that they couldn't answer questions in a sound scientific way until they had good data (antibody tests).

[Arctic Fox]

To me, Sweden's response has always made most sense.

Those who are most vulnerable (the elderly and those with compromising conditions) are told to self-isolate.

Those who are least vulnerable (children) continue to live virtually normal lives, still going to school.

Everyone else can choose - live their life normally (go to work, bars and restaurants) or self-isolate.

Only time will tell which countries made the correct choice, but currently Sweden's figures are looking very good and scientists believe that the population will end up having the highest immunity levels.

[Leadbone1]

Interesting opinion from Dr Scott Atlas of Stanford

The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation)

Based on where the data is now we should never have shut down. Protecting the most vulnerable is what Sweden did, and letting everyone else, with common sense protections, continue to run their businesses and go to work. That is what should’ve been done. That’s the only way we will achieve herd immunity. The people that have isolated themselves have to come out eventually and they are going to run into asymptomatic people that have this. All this approach we took did was prolong the inevitable, and destroy our economy temporarily.

[ithos]

Ideas on returning our society to a normal state will always be hotly debated because there are too many unknown variables which precludes deriving incontrovertible solutions using scientific protocols.

Any path taken will require some trial and error methods. Fortunately this can be done on a local and state level so that risks are contained while lessons learned can be adopted by others. Thank you Georgia for ignoring the doomsayers and leading the way on undoing the devastation experienced by so many of our low and middle class citizens.

[xNYer]

Based on where the data is now we should never have shut down. Protecting the most vulnerable is what Sweden did, and letting everyone else, with common sense protections, continue to run their businesses and go to work. That is what should’ve been done. That’s the only way we will achieve herd immunity. The people that have isolated themselves have to come out eventually and they are going to run into asymptomatic people that have this. All this approach we took did was prolong the inevitable, and destroy our economy temporarily.

Sweden is anticipated to have 10584 deaths by August 14 with a population of only 10 million. The US is 33 times larger which would then have approximately 349000 using their model.
I wouldn’t call that a success.

[GoodLife]

And yes, Fauci was wrong. And when the data changed, he adjusted his opinion. See that's how science works. You have a theory, you test it, and where it fails, you adjust. Fauci has adjusted. Dr. Atlas has not. Doesn't make him wrong. Does make him an ideolog.

Politicians have been wrong. When the polls change, they adjust their opinion. See that's how politics work. You have a theory, you poll it, where it fails, you adjust. :)

[Leadbone1]

Sweden is anticipated to have 10584 deaths by August 14 with a population of only 10 million. The US is 33 times larger which would then have approximately 349000 using their model.
I wouldn’t call that a success.

Anticipated?? Sounds like you should be one of those modelers that got everything wrong?

[golfing eagles]

Sweden is anticipated to have 10584 deaths by August 14 with a population of only 10 million. The US is 33 times larger which would then have approximately 349000 using their model.
I wouldn’t call that a success.

Is that from the same folks that "anticipated" 2 million deaths in the US?

[Leadbone1]

Sweden is anticipated to have 10584 deaths by August 14 with a population of only 10 million. The US is 33 times larger which would then have approximately 349000 using their model.
I wouldn’t call that a success.

What a ridiculous reply to put forth such a stupid model which like all the others will be wrong. Currently Sweden has 2200 deaths in a country of 10.23 million people. That’s a mortality rate of only .0002 of 1%. I prefer to deal with facts rather than doom and gloom unfounded predictions as you do.

[JoelJohnson]

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"

[RedBoneJones]

Interesting opinion from Dr Scott Atlas of Stanford

The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation)

The circulation of such false claims is dangerous and distracts from actual true and pertinent information.

[Joelack99]

Sweden is anticipated to have 10584 deaths by August 14 with a population of only 10 million. The US is 33 times larger which would then have approximately 349000 using their model.
I wouldn’t call that a success.

This nails the fallacy of the article. The entire purpose of distancing is to avoid overwhelming the medical establishment so they can treat people instead of warehousing them to just die in the halls. You are about to see (in a month) what that looks like in Georgia. We are the vulnerable in any case. It’s tough, but don’t be fooled by political rhetoric into thinking this is over.
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them: The Spanish Influenza Pandemic: a lesson from history 100 years after 1918 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6477554/)

[Jazzman]

This nails the fallacy of the article. The entire purpose of distancing is to avoid overwhelming the medical establishment so they can treat people instead of warehousing them to just die in the halls. You are about to see (in a month) what that looks like in Georgia. We are the vulnerable in any case. It’s tough, but don’t be fooled by political rhetoric into thinking this is over.
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them: The Spanish Influenza Pandemic: a lesson from history 100 years after 1918 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6477554/)

So I assume you are using some model to reach your prediction of what will occur in Georgia. If Georgia’s death rate or ICU utilization rate goes up, your prediction is correct. If not you’re wrong.

“In God we trust. All others bring data.”

[GoodLife]

This nails the fallacy of the article. The entire purpose of distancing is to avoid overwhelming the medical establishment so they can treat people instead of warehousing them to just die in the halls. You are about to see (in a month) what that looks like in Georgia. We are the vulnerable in any case. It’s tough, but don’t be fooled by political rhetoric into thinking this is over.
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them: The Spanish Influenza Pandemic: a lesson from history 100 years after 1918 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6477554/)

Wrong, it's best to trust actual data rather than estimates, especially when most of the models have been catastrophically wrong. Here is actual real time data comparing growth of covid 19 cases of USA and Sweden. One country is in lockdown, the other is not.

Total confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people - Our World in Data (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-per-million-people?tab=chart&year=2020-04-25&country=SWE+USA)

[Joe C.]

My opinion of all this is for us to use a modicum of common sense. Avoid large indoor crowds and keep a high standard of personal hygiene. I would prefer to see everyone out and about and all places of work, worship and recreation to be operating as normal as possible. The WORST thing to damage this country is for the economy to stop. In the end, we are all going to get exposed to this virus, just as we all have been exposed to all the other diseases and sickness that circulate. Might as well get out there. We should all be concerned about those who will be here tomorrow and the next and do all we can to ensure their economic well being for the future.

[xNYer]

What a ridiculous reply to put forth such a stupid model which like all the others will be wrong. Currently Sweden has 2200 deaths in a country of 10.23 million people. That’s a mortality rate of only .0002 of 1%. I prefer to deal with facts rather than doom and gloom unfounded predictions as you do.

Accepting your information would equate 2200 deaths in Sweden to 72600 deaths in the US when population differences are considered. Obviously they will have many more than that. Your reaction to the information only demonstrates a preordained position not amenable to change.

[aa1949a]

You must be young.

[Joelack99]

So I assume you are using some model to reach your prediction of what will occur in Georgia. If Georgia’s death rate or ICU utilization rate goes up, your prediction is correct. If not you’re wrong.

“In God we trust. All others bring data.”

Yes. Virus spread and ICU capacity as modeled by Johns Hopkins. I’m betting my life their model is correct, and so will continue to isolate. What science are you using to predict you are safe?

And yes, the truth will come out in time.
Speaking of time, the same thing happened 100 years ago when people, misled by their government at war, stopped. The virus mutated and the bulk of 50 Million worldwide deaths occurred. This could happen again. No one knows. The Spanish Influenza Pandemic: a lesson from history 100 years after 1918 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6477554/)

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.“

[Joelack99]

Wrong, it's best to trust actual data rather than estimates, especially when most of the models have been catastrophically wrong. Here is actual real time data comparing growth of covid 19 cases of USA and Sweden. One country is in lockdown, the other is not.

Total confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people - Our World in Data (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-per-million-people?tab=chart&year=2020-04-25&country=SWE+USA)
The problem with this comparison is that the US is not only 33 times the size of Sweden but that the current outbreak looks contained only because New York, Michigan’s and a couple of other hot spots are beginning to be contained. Meanwhile states that are less dense and have not issued stay at home orders or worse, are assuming that the entire state is safer now that one hotspot is peaking (Georgia) will now have new and much worse outbreaks because the are seeded with untested, asymtomatic, contagious people.

[graciegirl]

Ideas on returning our society to a normal state will always be hotly debated because there are too many unknown variables which precludes deriving incontrovertible solutions using scientific protocols.

Any path taken will require some trial and error methods. Fortunately this can be done on a local and state level so that risks are contained while lessons learned can be adopted by others. Thank you Georgia for ignoring the doomsayers and leading the way on undoing the devastation experienced by so many of our low and middle class citizens.

I sometimes misunderstand people and what they mean. I am told I misunderstood our president's question about injecting alcohol. Did you mean your highlighted statement above as satire?

[JoeinFL]

...

[PugMom]

Sweden is anticipated to have 10584 deaths by August 14 with a population of only 10 million. The US is 33 times larger which would then have approximately 349000 using their model.
I wouldn’t call that a success.
that may be, but what computer model is it based on?

[chet2020]

What a ridiculous reply to put forth such a stupid model which like all the others will be wrong. Currently Sweden has 2200 deaths in a country of 10.23 million people. That’s a mortality rate of only .0002 of 1%. I prefer to deal with facts rather than doom and gloom unfounded predictions as you do.

So your "death rate" is based on current deaths (there will be more) divided by total population (not all have been exposed), and then you get the wrong answer anyway. Keep up the good work, there's a job waiting for you in Washington.

[Bucco]

Absolutely NY's own fault. Florida has more people and we are not even close to their cluster. Yes, different density, but they could have acted sooner if they wanted to.

What did DC prevent NY from doing??


I sure was not there but this is the detail we have and NOBODY has denied its truth.
__________________________________________________

"Dec. 31: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention learn of a cluster of cases in China.

Jan. 1: The CDC begins developing reports for the Department of Health and Human Services about the situation.

Jan. 3: A Chinese official officially informs CDC Director Robert Redfield of the outbreak of a respiratory illness in the city of Wuhan. Redfield later relays the information to HHS Secretary Alex Azar, and Azar informs the White House National Security Council.

Early January: Intelligence officials begin offering ominous, classified warnings about the virus to Trump in the President’s Daily Brief. The warnings will persist into February.

Early January: In a report to the director of National Intelligence, a State Department epidemiologist warns that the virus is likely to spread across the globe and could result in a pandemic, and the Defense Intelligence Agency’s National Center for Medical Intelligence comes to the same conclusion, per the New York Times.

Jan. 8: The CDC issues its first public warning about the outbreak in China, saying that it is monitoring the situation and that people should take precautions when traveling to Wuhan.

Mid-January: Assistant HHS Secretary for Preparedness and Response Robert Kadlec instructs subordinates to make contingency plans for using the Defense Production Act, which allows the federal government to compel the production of certain materials in a crisis.

Jan. 17: The CDC begins monitoring major airports for passengers arriving from China.

Jan. 18: Azar, who had been trying to speak to Trump about the virus, is finally able to meet with him. Before Azar can begin talking about the virus, though, Trump interjects to ask him about a federal crackdown on vaping.

Jan. 20: Chinese President Xi Jinping says the virus “must be taken seriously,” and Chinese officials confirm the virus can be transmitted via human-to-human contact."


Jan. 21: The first case of the coronavirus is confirmed in the United States, in Seattle.

Jan. 22: Trump makes his first comments about the coronavirus, saying he is not concerned about a pandemic: “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. … It’s going to be just fine.”

Jan. 23: Chinese officials take the drastic step of shutting down Wuhan. “That was like, whoa,” a senior U.S. official involved in White House meetings later told The Post. “That was when the Richter scale hit 8.”

Jan. 24: A study published by the Lancet suggests the virus may be carried by people without symptoms.

Jan. 26: Chinese health officials say the virus is infectious before symptoms show. “From observations, the virus is capable of transmission even during incubation period,” China Health Minister Ma Xiaowei says. “There are hidden carriers.”

Jan. 27: Concerned White House aides meet with then-acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney to get senior officials to pay more attention to the issue. Joe Grogan, the head of the White House Domestic Policy Council, argues it could cost Trump his reelection and says the virus is likely to dominate life in the United States for many months.
"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/timeline-trumps-coronavirus-response-is-increasingly-damning/

Can be dismissed as "fake news" or taken seriously and looked into.
_______________________________________
In addition, the "embed" from the CDC, actually in China acting as the liason between the two countries was told her position was to be defunded and thus left China to come home. Potentially she could have given us a heads up, which was one of the primary reasons for her position.

This was FIVE months before the first case in China.

Her name was Dr. Linda Quick, an epidemiologist. Quick led a program that trained Chinese epidemiologists in methods for discovering, tracking, researching, and containing diseases — like Covid-19.

Again, the only time this was addressed to my knowledge was during a press conference and this was the exchange...on video and in total context.

Twitter (https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1241860381858988033)

Who knows but questions that need answered

[Jazzman]

Yes. Virus spread and ICU capacity as modeled by Johns Hopkins. I’m betting my life their model is correct, and so will continue to isolate. What science are you using to predict you are safe?

And yes, the truth will come out in time.
Speaking of time, the same thing happened 100 years ago when people, misled by their government at war, stopped. The virus mutated and the bulk of 50 Million worldwide deaths occurred. This could happen again. No one knows. The Spanish Influenza Pandemic: a lesson from history 100 years after 1918 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6477554/)

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.“

Since I look at the JH site everyday maybe you could post the link where you state you see the projected trend in Georgia.

[GoodLife]

I sure was not there but this is the detail we have and NOBODY has denied its truth.
__________________________________________________

"Dec. 31: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention learn of a cluster of cases in China.

Jan. 1: The CDC begins developing reports for the Department of Health and Human Services about the situation.

Jan. 3: A Chinese official officially informs CDC Director Robert Redfield of the outbreak of a respiratory illness in the city of Wuhan. Redfield later relays the information to HHS Secretary Alex Azar, and Azar informs the White House National Security Council.

Early January: Intelligence officials begin offering ominous, classified warnings about the virus to Trump in the President’s Daily Brief. The warnings will persist into February.

Early January: In a report to the director of National Intelligence, a State Department epidemiologist warns that the virus is likely to spread across the globe and could result in a pandemic, and the Defense Intelligence Agency’s National Center for Medical Intelligence comes to the same conclusion, per the New York Times.

Jan. 8: The CDC issues its first public warning about the outbreak in China, saying that it is monitoring the situation and that people should take precautions when traveling to Wuhan.

Mid-January: Assistant HHS Secretary for Preparedness and Response Robert Kadlec instructs subordinates to make contingency plans for using the Defense Production Act, which allows the federal government to compel the production of certain materials in a crisis.

Jan. 17: The CDC begins monitoring major airports for passengers arriving from China.

Jan. 18: Azar, who had been trying to speak to Trump about the virus, is finally able to meet with him. Before Azar can begin talking about the virus, though, Trump interjects to ask him about a federal crackdown on vaping.

Jan. 20: Chinese President Xi Jinping says the virus “must be taken seriously,” and Chinese officials confirm the virus can be transmitted via human-to-human contact."


Jan. 21: The first case of the coronavirus is confirmed in the United States, in Seattle.

Jan. 22: Trump makes his first comments about the coronavirus, saying he is not concerned about a pandemic: “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. … It’s going to be just fine.”

Jan. 23: Chinese officials take the drastic step of shutting down Wuhan. “That was like, whoa,” a senior U.S. official involved in White House meetings later told The Post. “That was when the Richter scale hit 8.”

Jan. 24: A study published by the Lancet suggests the virus may be carried by people without symptoms.

Jan. 26: Chinese health officials say the virus is infectious before symptoms show. “From observations, the virus is capable of transmission even during incubation period,” China Health Minister Ma Xiaowei says. “There are hidden carriers.”

Jan. 27: Concerned White House aides meet with then-acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney to get senior officials to pay more attention to the issue. Joe Grogan, the head of the White House Domestic Policy Council, argues it could cost Trump his reelection and says the virus is likely to dominate life in the United States for many months.
"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/timeline-trumps-coronavirus-response-is-increasingly-damning/

Can be dismissed as "fake news" or taken seriously and looked into.
_______________________________________
In addition, the "embed" from the CDC, actually in China acting as the liason between the two countries was told her position was to be defunded and thus left China to come home. Potentially she could have given us a heads up, which was one of the primary reasons for her position.

This was FIVE months before the first case in China.

Her name was Dr. Linda Quick, an epidemiologist. Quick led a program that trained Chinese epidemiologists in methods for discovering, tracking, researching, and containing diseases — like Covid-19.

Again, the only time this was addressed to my knowledge was during a press conference and this was the exchange...on video and in total context.

Twitter (https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1241860381858988033)

Who knows but questions that need answered

You forgot one:

February 17 Top disease official Dr Fauci: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands

[Bucco]

You forgot one:

February 17 Top disease official Dr Fauci: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands

Sorry..

Not relative to what was discussed. Poster thought the USA should have warned earlier ...Another poster disagreed. A timeline like this...very detailed and specific.

Nice to discuss if you don't change subjects.

This is scary stuff, actually, and if you wish to add your line....ok...not sure why, but fine. Does not change anything.

And the timeline I pasted here ends in January because the point is we knew very early. If you read the link, it takes you into February, but again the point was we knew early and we displaced a doctor who was there on the scene. Just bad timing

[ficoguy]

Lets look at statistics for Florida:
The normal daily death rate is 16 per 100,000
Of the 16 per 100,000, 8.2 are caused by auto accidents
The current death rate from CV19 in Marion, Lake and Sumter counties is 3 per 100,000
So you are 2.73 times as likely to die from an auto accident than COV19
No government mandate to say "don't drive your cars"

[GoodLife]

The author looks well credentialed- until you realize he's a leading advocate for the Hoover Institute (right leaning ideology) and was a radiologist, not a public health expert.
I stopped reading this as a serious bit of medical advice after I did a simple calculation: as of this afternoon, the US had 945,000 reported Covid 19 cases and 53,334 deaths- that's a morbidity rate of 5.6%, not the 0.1%-0.2% the learned doctor claims in his first bullet point. WWD, it's 2.87 M cases and 202 K deaths- that a 7.0% morbidity rate.
The overall morbidity rate of the common flu is between 0.1% and 0.2%- so Covid 19 is an order of magnitude more deadly than the flu. I didn't attempt to examine death rates by age cohort, but all evidence points to Covid 19 as being much more lethal to the 65+ crowd.
Better to trust the reputable scientists and public health experts, rather than ideologues w non-relevant medical credentials!

You must have missed the numerous antibody studies published which show a much lower death rate.

antibody studies show lower death rate - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=antibody+studies+show+lower+death+rate&form=EDGTCT&qs=PF&cvid=b5d3f9b7b68747809c3e0759bc287946&refig=887f0185a3d8499ae8227c1bab1161c3&cc=US&setlang=en-US&elv=AQj93OAhDTi*HzTv1paQdni*xbFRqd2wxD4zGx1cpqmHSd FzAEocuB1QWtIVTEHgmMyH4nZbwsIn4HMO1keZMJ0BbbAQEVCE tVhO1nGpA7NC&plvar=0)

[WelchNH]

Well, studies from Bing and elsewhere are just estimates.
My calculation shows actual death rates, as of this afternoon:
US 53.3 K deaths/ 994 K reported cases= 5.6%
That's actual- not some projected study.

[600th Photo Sq]

My opinion of all this is for us to use a modicum of common sense. Avoid large indoor crowds and keep a high standard of personal hygiene. I would prefer to see everyone out and about and all places of work, worship and recreation to be operating as normal as possible. The WORST thing to damage this country is for the economy to stop. In the end, we are all going to get exposed to this virus, just as we all have been exposed to all the other diseases and sickness that circulate. Might as well get out there. We should all be concerned about those who will be here tomorrow and the next and do all we can to ensure their economic well being for the future.

One of the best post.

Basically common sense. The lockdown has to end for the USA to survive.