Would the 38K bond on new homes be a deal breaker?

[KEVIN & JOSIE]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker on a new home purchase, or would you consider it just the cost of living in The Villages and enjoying the active lifestyle?

[thelegges]

Bought 3 houses here the bond was never a deal breaker for us. We wanted to live here for the active life style

[Love2Swim]

Wow, I had no idea they had gone that high . It seems like it would make a pre-owned home with no bond much more financially attractive, especially if it was in a central portion of The Villages.

[Aces4]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker on a new home purchase, or would you consider it just the cost of living in The Villages and enjoying the active lifestyle?

Deal breaker for sure... we’re not looking at a $10,000. dollar bump on a home purchase here. $38,000 in addition to the price of a home and the cost of closing here, in my mind, is ridiculous. But then that’s why some people fair better in retirement. They have sound financial sense.

[kpd3062]

Is this for designer series homes? I assume in the Deluna or chitty chatty areas? Are all the new houses being built currently in the same CDD? I think I read that bonds are district specific is that correct?

[Goldwingnut]

Is this for designer series homes? I assume in the Deluna or chitty chatty areas? Are all the new houses being built currently in the same CDD? I think I read that bonds are district specific is that correct?

DeLuna is in CDD12 and Chitty Chatty is in CDD13. The bonds are not specific to the CDD but to the subdivision (Unit #).

Adjusted for inflation the bonds have not gone up significantly over the last 20 years. Also consider in the newer areas, CDDs 12 & 13, there is a lot more green/open space than anywhere else in The Villages and the overall population density is lower. This results in longer road, more pipes, and more infrastructure in general that has to be paid for. You will pay for it one way or another, as a bond or just rolled into the price of the house the way other developers do it.

This video explains the bonds here in The Villages:

The Villages 5-30-19 Construction update and Bond information - YouTube (https://youtu.be/nGwf7AcmyEI)

[Topspinmo]

For me yes, 38K really The minimum, the real money in the interest.

[Topspinmo]

DeLuna is in CDD12 and Chitty Chatty is in CDD13. The bonds are not specific to the CDD but to the subdivision (Unit #).

Adjusted for inflation the bonds have not gone up significantly over the last 20 years. Also consider in the newer areas, CDDs 12 & 13, there is a lot more green/open space than anywhere else in The Villages and the overall population density is lower. This results in longer road, more pipes, and more infrastructure in general that has to be paid for. You will pay for it one way or another, as a bond or just rolled into the price of the house the way other developers do it.

This video explains the bonds here in The Villages:

The Villages 5-30-19 Construction update and Bond information - YouTube (https://youtu.be/nGwf7AcmyEI)

I thought the 25% tax increase offset the developers costs?

[John_W]

It's the price of inflation. In January 2012 a new designer home bond was $24,000 and you could get a masonry spec designer home with tile floors, 2 car garage, stainless appliances and granite counter tops for $250K. I knew the original buyer of this home and it's about 100 yards from me, he moved to a golf course lot on Havana and sold the home two years later for $340K in 2014. It has resold 2017 for $359K.

If price is your determining factor, I would still buy a resale even though they have gone up, the bond has to be lower than $24,000 and you would be in the established Villages. This particular home is 2050 Odessa Circle in Tamarind Grove. 3-1/2 miles form LSL and 3-1/2 miles from Brownwood. Here's the home when it was listed in 2017. To give you an idea of distances, this home is 14 miles from Fenney.

2050 Odessa Cir, The Villages, FL 32162 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2050-Odessa-Cir-The-Villages-FL-32162/104292795_zpid/)

Now, to give you an idea of a home that is actually on the market now. This 2012 built masonry designer home in Tamarind Grove sold new for $245K. It's now for sale for $399,900. I don't know anything about this home, other than it's for sale now.

2319 Newburn Ln, The Villages, FL 32162 | MLS #G5028653 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2319-Newburn-Ln-The-Villages-FL-32162/104232798_zpid/)

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/cc_ft_768/ISzv62apm3uqy31000000000.webp

[Goldwingnut]

I thought the 25% tax increase offset the developers costs?

You need to stop reading that other website.

The 25% increase had nothing to do with the developer, it was the county administration that has been mismanaging the tax money, trying to make themselves look good by lowering taxes the last 14 years so they could brag about what a good job they were doing. Instead they should have been holding the tax rate constant putting away the money for the growth and increased maintenance costs.

The developer/bonds pay for all the new roads and infrastructure for a new development. The impact fees are supposed to pay for upgrading existing county infrastructure (CR468 & CR501) to support the developments that the county approves. One has to ask what they are doing with the money.

The developer doesn't care what the impact fee is, it's just another line item in building the house and they will pass it on to the buyer, just like all taxes are. Do you really think an extra $1000 will stop the sale of any new home in The Villages, I think not.

[JimJohnson]

We are in home number two and paid the bond in full for both. The bond is part of the home value to us. Paying it like a second mortgage is foolish to me. Yes, there is interest on the bond if paid over time that is higher than mortgage interest. If you can’t pay the bond off, at least add it to your home payment and pay less at the end of the note.
The Rep’s will tell you that no one pays the bond up front, but this is false. At closing on our first home, the buyer confessed to us that our home was a little high, but that our bond was paid so it became a better purchase.

Today’s bonds are approximately:
Patio Villa $19,000
Courtyard $25,000
Designer $35,000

You can find the occasional Cottage home in a Patio Villa neighborhood and pay the $19,000.

[DAN48]

We are in home number two and paid the bond in full for both. The bond is part of the home value to us. Paying it like a second mortgage is foolish to me. Yes, there is interest on the bond if paid over time that is higher than mortgage interest. If you can’t pay the bond off, at least add it to your home payment and pay less at the end of the note.
The Rep’s will tell you that no one pays the bond up front, but this is false. At closing on our first home, the buyer confessed to us that our home was a little high, but that our bond was paid so it became a better purchase.

Today’s bonds are approximately:
Patio Villa $19,000
Courtyard $25,000
Designer $35,000

You can find the occasional Cottage home in a Patio Villa neighborhood and pay the $19,000.

We paid off the bond 4 years ago. With an interest rate of 6 5/8%, it was a "no brainer". We have had our home for 8 years and intend on staying here as long as possible.
For new buyers, you need to add the balance of the bond to the purchase price-that is what you are REALLY paying for the home.

[mrf6969]

This post is about the Bond pricing on new homes that adds to the total price.
What about that hush hush lot premium price? I see retention pond lot premiums on the new homes south of 44 going for a crazy price of $150K give or take.
That is a far cry from the $30k I paid for a water view years back.
Are people being a little crazy to pay these prices?

[Rwirish]

At $38,000, yes a deal breaker.

[davem4616]

It was the life style of TV that attracted us...we actually never gave much thought to the bond when we were looking at houses here. Our focus was on the right floor plan and the location. We have no mortgage, but have not paid off the bond.

I'll revisit whether to pay the bond off again. I'm just not sure that the majority of potential buyers will see an existing bond as a deal breaker on a resale. If I pay off the bond, it will drive up what my listing price is when I sell...and impact how my home competes with similar designer model houses on the market. I think location, location, location is far more of a factor than whether the bond is paid off or not. We're 3 1/2 miles from Brownwood. 3 miles from Lake Deaton Plaza and about 4 miles to LSL.

I suspect that some potential buyers of new and resale homes will be turned off due to the bond and they'll go elsewhere. I just look at it as part of the cost of buying a home in The Villages.

[Love2Swim]

A friend just sold her house near CR 466. She sold it quite quickly, and said the real estate agent told her there is a big market for pre-owned homes in central Villages due to location and smaller or paid off bonds. Note - this was from an outside real estate agent, not a Villages salesperson.

[Timothyimitchell]

I am seeing a very large premium in the villages between the 466's. I would say 10%. Most of the pre-owned homes currently for sale our North and east.

[Skunky1]

$38,000 bond plus a 25% increase in Real estate tax. Maybe the amenities are not worth it! Might want to consider a preowned home. Village real estate agents try to sell the point that the $38,000 isn’t part of the price. What a bunch of malarkey

[Ginsanders]

No bonds allowed in Lake County, that why we bought where we did and love it.

[Challenger]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker on a new home purchase, or would you consider it just the cost of living in The Villages and enjoying the active lifestyle?

Again, and again, and again. The total cost of a home purchase = Asking price + any other liens attaching to the property. End. Real Estate sales people will often try to convince you otherwise. EX . Purchase price $250,000 , bond balance $15,000 , Total price paid for home = $265,000 (Trust me). Purchase price $250,000 , no bond , total consideration (price) $250,000......

[biker1]

Not exactly. Your "real estate tax" has several components: the county tax, the school tax, the water management fee, the fire department fee, the maintenance fee, and, unless you have paid it off, your bond fee. The county tax went up about 25%. The other components were essentially unchanged. Since the county tax is, at worst, about 50% of your total "real estate tax", the increase in your "real estate tax" is about 12%. If you haven't paid off your bond, the percentage increase is less than that since the fixed bond payment is a substantial chunk of the total "real estate tax". This may not be true if you aren't homesteaded.

$38,000 bond plus a 25% increase in Real estate tax. Maybe the amenities are not worth it! Might want to consider a preowned home. Village real estate agents try to sell the point that the $38,000 isn’t part of the price. What a bunch of malarkey

[La lamy]

Not sure if anyone can answer this, but here goes: if you buy a property that has its bond payed off, bulldoze it and rebuild, will there be a bond slapped on it again?

[cmj1210]

My home is only 3 1/2 yrs old and we are paying 23K. That’s quite an inflation in 3 1/2 yrs.


It's the price of inflation. In January 2012 a new designer home bond was $24,000 and you could get a masonry spec designer home with tile floors, 2 car garage, stainless appliances and granite counter tops for $250K. I knew the original buyer of this home and it's about 100 yards from me, he moved to a golf course lot on Havana and sold the home two years later for $340K in 2014. It has resold 2017 for $359K.

If price is your determining factor, I would still buy a resale even though they have gone up, the bond has to be lower than $24,000 and you would be in the established Villages. This particular home is 2050 Odessa Circle in Tamarind Grove. 3-1/2 miles form LSL and 3-1/2 miles from Brownwood. Here's the home when it was listed in 2017. To give you an idea of distances, this home is 14 miles from Fenney.

2050 Odessa Cir, The Villages, FL 32162 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2050-Odessa-Cir-The-Villages-FL-32162/104292795_zpid/)

Now, to give you an idea of a home that is actually on the market now. This 2012 built masonry designer home in Tamarind Grove sold new for $245K. It's now for sale for $399,900. I don't know anything about this home, other than it's for sale now.

2319 Newburn Ln, The Villages, FL 32162 | MLS #G5028653 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2319-Newburn-Ln-The-Villages-FL-32162/104232798_zpid/)

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/cc_ft_768/ISzv62apm3uqy31000000000.webp

[dnkjourney1950]

District 13, Unit 44 has a bond of $43K.

[Goldwingnut]

No bonds allowed in Lake County, that why we bought where we did and love it.

You are mistaken, pine hills and pine ridge have bonds, both are in lake county.

[Goldwingnut]

Not sure if anyone can answer this, but here goes: if you buy a property that has its bond payed off, bulldoze it and rebuild, will there be a bond slapped on it again?

No. Once the bond is paid, it’s paid.

[diva1]

I would buy a well located resale home and know that $38,000 would be plenty of money to make any changes and upgrades I wanted. And the house would be in a superior location.

[LeeM]

Be sure to take into consideration that there is interest on the bond - that adds a substantial amount to the bond price.

When it comes to buying a home with a paid off bond, a lot of purchasers don’t register what a substantial difference it makes. And we know people who paid off their bond and didn’t recoup the money in the total sale price vs similar homes without the bond paid off. But, if you don't pay off the bond you are stuck paying Interest.

Regardless, I would not pay a $38000 bond to live in one of the newer areas as they are not desirable areas to me. I think the value is in other areas that have lower bonds. But it is what you want. It may be worth it to you.

[Guitarman1951]

All I can say is WOW!! We paid $18k 14 years ago and thought it was ridiculous. $38k, no way, wouldn't be worth it to live here. Considering the huge tax increase and reduction in the assessment to the Villages for new home infrastructure cost, the bond shouldn't go up like that. They will be pricing themselves out if business at this rate.

[villagetinker]

It appears there is some misinformation here. The bond is normally paid MONTHLY at the agreed upon interest rate over a period of typically 25 years. As noted on a previous post the interest rate was what we considered high, you can NOT deduct this off income tax (even if you itemize), so we paid it off after 4 years. My point, this is NOT an up front cost, it is an ongoing monthly cost unless you decide to pay it off. You can get a full accounting of the cost from your agent or online.
Regarding another question above, if you bulldoze the house and rebuild, NO there is no additional bond applied, the bond is to cover the infrastructure of the development.
We did not consider the bond a deal breaker, as it was just an additional monthly expense.
There have been several threads on this subject, and several people suggested getting a home equity loan to cover the bond, this will generally be at a lower interest rate, but you need to be careful if interest rates go up.
Hope this helps.

[ficoguy]

My Bond in CDD11-Unit 35 runs about $140 a month
I was going to pay it off but when you list your house most people assume there is a bond on it
So if I pay off the bond balance of $ 22,000 that doesn't really translate into me jacking up my asking price from $300 to $322

[graciegirl]

Wow, I had no idea they had gone that high . It seems like it would make a pre-owned home with no bond much more financially attractive, especially if it was in a central portion of The Villages.

In other areas the price of the bond...would be included in the price of the home but they do not do this here.

Older homes have had bonds and they are either paid or not paid, so their cost would still reflect the bond one way or another.

I imagine the bond is up because the cost of building the infrastructure has gone up just like other like processes are more expensive now than they were some years ago.

[La lamy]

No. Once the bond is paid, it’s paid.

Thanks for this info Goldwingnut.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The question comes down to cash flow and financing, limiting pricing options. the total price of ownership includes the bond (sometimes verbally invisible), but some discussions are about cashflow, cash cost versus price. Cash flow wise, which includes the cost of money, irrespective of the total price, the home owner has the option to pay off the bond which is a much smaller chunk of the total price, which can reduce the monthly payment in total or the monthly carrying cost. The decision comes down to cash available for purchasing the property, and the future cash flow requirements, which have limitations.

Enough cash, why bother with paying the monthly cash rental fee on the bond. Not enough cash to pay off the bond without a savings or life style impact, then the cash flow and monthly cost becomes a more dominant decision point.

The point is that price and cost are two different points of view, one is the seller, price, the other is the buyer, cost, which includes cash lost or cash financing or monthly rental fee of money, including the bond..

Within the villages, new build cost = land (fixed) + build (variable) + bond (fixed). Resale = ALL negotiated price with embedded bond variable balance. The older the house, the less bond, but currently more desirable location depending upon personality and goals, and usually more negotiable, subject to one's ability to calculate and negotiate a relatively fair market value.

So, now that the purchase combinations are many, hundreds of options of new versus resale at any point in time, in deciding how to move to the villages, and the buyers cash flow ability, is usually fixed. So picking on bond as a decision point is a behavioral bias of attribution: (attributing the decision to one variable while excluding many others, such as location including view, location to amenities, cash flow, house plan, usage - homestead or snow bird, future lottery winnings :ohdear:(future income) , patience by relying on negotiation (flexibility), etc)

A reader of my posts may realize that I mention behavioral biases a lot, because they run our lives, whether people realize it or not. And people's reactions, posts and decisions all reflect their biases, part of one's personality and viewpoints, and usually limited to themselves, but projected onto others. And with money, there are many complex issues, some quantifiable, mostly behavioral.

Time to get outside!

sportsguy's crappy opinion

[DecaturFargo]

I would absolitely not give the Morses $38,000 more money, especially since there's no connector,barely any restaurants, and no town center. What are you getting?

[davem4616]

No bonds allowed in Lake County, that why we bought where we did and love it.


ah, not true...I'm in Lake County and we have a bond

[davem4616]

My Bond in CDD11-Unit 35 runs about $140 a month
I was going to pay it off but when you list your house most people assume there is a bond on it
So if I pay off the bond balance of $ 22,000 that doesn't really translate into me jacking up my asking price from $300 to $322


exactly my concern about paying off the bond

[champion6]

No bonds allowed in Lake County, that why we bought where we did and love it.That is no longer true. The homes in Pine Hills and Pine Ridge have a bond. They are in Lake County.

[mk1126]

Yes, a definite 'deal broker'. Look at building sites over on 466 A by Lowe's for compare. But, hey, there still is a lot of land for them to purchase on down to Orlando! cha-ching!

[Dana1963]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker on a new home purchase, or would you consider it just the cost of living in The Villages and enjoying the active lifestyle?

The BOND would have gone up MORE THAN 38,000 if we didn't get screwed by a 25% tax increase by county commisioners an Morse Syndicate

[merrymini]

Premiums to be on a golf course were very high and I paid it more than five years ago. I do not know what they were for ponds at that time. Since the interest rate on the bonds runs over 6 percent, if you decide to stay in your house for any great length of time, paying off the bond makes economic sense. I would certainly not eat it if I sold my house. Many people do not do the math. Buying a house with a bond would be like paying an additional mortgage on their house. How do they not see that? I am surprised to hear that the density south of 44 is less, not because I do not see it, driveways are shorter ,etc., but they are loaded with villas and I would have assumed their gain in density because of that would have balanced out the number. I have not, however, counted the housing units.

[donassaid]

Would certainly be a deal breaker for me, especially when you have no way to recover that cost if you need to sell in the short run.

[Boilerman]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker on a new home purchase, or would you consider it just the cost of living in The Villages and enjoying the active lifestyle?

Well for me the deal breaker would be buying a house south of 44 so far from everything. But for you, if that’s where you want to live, just consider it part of the purchase price and act accordingly.

I’ve never understood most people’s obsession with having a new house vs. buying a pre-owned house. You sink a lot of cash into the typical home upgrades and the lower new home price is then offset by the cost of upgrades and the bond.

My advice is to find a pre-owned house south of 466A. Newer homes, more central location, younger more active neighbors, upgrades all done, lower or paid bonds. Lots of houses for sale so you can be picky. And use both the Villages sales agent and a MLS agent to see all the resales.

[dewilson58]

It's just part of your house cost. Either you pay it off or you finance it. Simple.


If you can't afford it, either purchase less house or move on. Simple.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

So picking on bond as a decision point is a behavioral bias of attribution: (attributing the decision to one variable while excluding many others, such as location including view, location to amenities, cash flow, house plan, usage - homestead or snow bird, future lottery winnings :ohdear:(future income) , patience by relying on negotiation (flexibility), etc)

This is what I love about Talk of the Villages!

Now...to answer the OP's question, yes, the bond in the far flung Villages to the south would be a dealbreaker. In fact, it was a deal breaker when I bought in January. I opted to buy a resale close to Lake Sumter with no bond. It's 14 years old with the original roof, but the cost of renovations will be less than the bond, and I'm in a location that can't be beat.

[kendi]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker on a new home purchase, or would you consider it just the cost of living in The Villages and enjoying the active lifestyle?

It's not that high on all of the new homes. Just depends on how many homes are built within a given area. The fewer homes, the higher the bond.

[nikonuser1]

The bond is to pay for the developers cost of infrastructure and common areas. Why is the bond so high now that the county (ie, taxpayers) is picking up the tab for the infrastructure in that 25% tax increase?

[Challenger]

exactly my concern about paying off the bond

No one buying or selling a house - using a competent real estate sales person, would ever assume a bond. If they do, the sales person is guilty of malfeasance.

[dewilson58]

The bond is to pay for the developers cost of infrastructure and common areas. Why is the bond so high now that the county (ie, taxpayers) is picking up the tab for the infrastructure in that 25% tax increase?


Schwartz & Morse made their first BILLION dollars from bonds > costs. The Villages is NOT a non-profit organization.

[jfkilduff]

Wow that means they are charging $76,000 for the utilities that serve 2 houses across from each other. Sounds a little high to me must include the development costs and road as well. I would look into it before buying into it talk with the county and city folks.

[NY2TV]

The best way to look at it from a financial standpoint when deciding on a house is to add together the purchase price plus the bond. That will give you a true picture of the cost.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

We are in home number two and paid the bond in full for both. The bond is part of the home value to us. Paying it like a second mortgage is foolish to me. Yes, there is interest on the bond if paid over time that is higher than mortgage interest. If you can’t pay the bond off, at least add it to your home payment and pay less at the end of the note.
The Rep’s will tell you that no one pays the bond up front, but this is false. At closing on our first home, the buyer confessed to us that our home was a little high, but that our bond was paid so it became a better purchase.

Today’s bonds are approximately:
Patio Villa $19,000
Courtyard $25,000
Designer $35,000

You can find the occasional Cottage home in a Patio Villa neighborhood and pay the $19,000. I’ve bought and sold 5 new homes in the villages and never paid the bond off , when I sold them a couple of people wanted to subtract the bond price I said no all my homes sold full price , plus whatever the bond was , if you plan on buying another home down the road don’t pay bond off

[SnowflakeinDeLaVista]

My husband and I look at it the same way we do with houses up north where the bond is already calculated into the price of the home: we combine the home price with the remaining bond to evaluate if the house is worth the cost. TV salespeople will tell you buyers do not consider the bond in making buying decisions, but they are wrong at least in our case. In some ways it seems like buying a new car in that as soon as you roll that car off the lot the value goes significantly down. Your house gets appraised. If the appraisal does not equate to the home price plus bond then you paid more than the market value for it. If you are ok with that then go for it. Also consider that many homes with the bond paid are older so may need renovations. You should likewise consider the cost of those renovations in you evaluation of an older house with no bond. We just bought an older home with no bond that was in need of some renovations. The market value was $25k more than what we paid and we are expecting to pay about $15k to renovate. The area is beautiful, great location, and we have equity from square one. A great buy for us.

[bebemary]

Bond also includes interest for as long as bond not paid off. So REAL cost can be two to three times bond amount

[ficoguy]

A drainage pond is a waterview....in NJ we called it a gravel pit or retention basin. Not premium...

[Bogie Shooter]

The bond is to pay for the developers cost of infrastructure and common areas. Why is the bond so high now that the county (ie, taxpayers) is picking up the tab for the infrastructure in that 25% tax increase?

Not the common areas. Visit www.districtgiv.org before your next post.

[Bogie Shooter]

Wow that means they are charging $76,000 for the utilities that serve 2 houses across from each other. Sounds a little high to me must include the development costs and road as well. I would look into it before buying into it talk with the county and city folks.

Visit Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org) before your next misleading post.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Feral hogs WOW .Please where can I see one I’m a Fenney resident .

[VApeople]

Feral hogs WOW .Please where can I see one I’m a Fenney resident .

Just stay up at night and see what moves across your yard. You might be surprised.

[Byte1]

Never heard of a "bond" on a new home purchase until I moved down here. I understand the reason for the bond, but it does make someone to pause when they compare the amount of home you get right outside of the Villages. Yes, you are paying for the lifestyle. You also pay for the lifestyle every month and in your tax bill. I have purchased twice here and both times, the bond has been paid off. I get just as much home as those purchasing a new home. It all has to do with what you are willing to pay. Some have money that they know they can't take with them, so they don't mind. Others are on a limited budget but want to live the lifestyle here. It is what it is. As long as people are willing to pay the "extra" price, then the homes are worth it.

[asiebel]

I would be looking at preowned between 466 and 466A. Great area close to everything!

[Stu from NYC]

I would be looking at preowned between 466 and 466A. Great area close to everything!

We moved here in Feb and purchased resale in same area. House 10 years old and only half of original bond left.

Think $ 38,000 would be more than most or at least us would pay

[Love2Swim]

My husband and I look at it the same way we do with houses up north where the bond is already calculated into the price of the home: we combine the home price with the remaining bond to evaluate if the house is worth the cost. TV salespeople will tell you buyers do not consider the bond in making buying decisions, but they are wrong at least in our case. In some ways it seems like buying a new car in that as soon as you roll that car off the lot the value goes significantly down. Your house gets appraised. If the appraisal does not equate to the home price plus bond then you paid more than the market value for it. If you are ok with that then go for it. Also consider that many homes with the bond paid are older so may need renovations. You should likewise consider the cost of those renovations in you evaluation of an older house with no bond. We just bought an older home with no bond that was in need of some renovations. The market value was $25k more than what we paid and we are expecting to pay about $15k to renovate. The area is beautiful, great location, and we have equity from square one. A great buy for us.

Also, some pre-owned homes may have had upgrades or replacement maintenance done which increases the value. We live between 466 and 466A, and almost everyone in our neighborhood has a new roof recently, new AC/heating unit, etc. with the bonds almost paid off. Many have added granite and stainless, hurricane shutters, etc. and have mature landscaping. I'd advise people not to jump in and buy a new home, but check the pre-owned homes and see what's out there. You can save a lot of money and maybe end up with a nicer lot and better location in The Villages.

[dewilson58]

We moved here in Feb and purchased resale in same area. House 10 years old and only half of original bond left.

Think $ 38,000 would be more than most or at least us would pay


What was the bond 10 years ago?? And the time value of money.......probably not significantly different than $38k.

[ldj1938]

In 2000 the bond was $1800 on a designer in Santo Domingo. $38K is crazy!

[Altavia]

I’ve bought and sold 5 new homes in the villages and never paid the bond off , when I sold them a couple of people wanted to subtract the bond price I said no all my homes sold full price , plus whatever the bond was , if you plan on buying another home down the road don’t pay bond off

Exactly, there's no evidence a bond effects sale price when looking at the county tax records. Some buyers may walk but there are others right behind them.

[mydavid]

If you can roll it over to your mortgage, or better pay it up front do it. My house was new in 2003, bond was $12,000, I let it go to my taxes, I still owe $5,000 and its still adds another $600 a year to my tax bill.

[manaboutown]

Bond also includes interest for as long as bond not paid off. So REAL cost can be two to three times bond amount

And the interest paid on the bond is not potentially tax deductible whereas mortgage interest is.

[dewilson58]

And the interest paid on the bond is not potentially tax deductible whereas mortgage interest is.


Only non-deductible if you get caught. :1rotfl:

[sallybowron]

I would never pay it. Not with all the previously owned homes that have all the extras already installed, ie: gutters, landscaping in the back, an extra sized patio leaving the lanai, some with painted drives and lanais, shelves in the garage and the laundry room, and a paint color besides white. :a040:

[ROOBEE2008]

Any home one buys ANYWHERE has the individual lot infrastructure costs (the bond amount) built into the pricing. It’s just that here in The Villages those costs are split out. Not a deal breaker.

[biker1]

The correct thing to do. The bond is amortized just like a mortgage, which means the interest is front loaded. You have already paid 80-90% of the interest. No point in paying off the remaining balance at this point.

If you can roll it over to your mortgage, or better pay it up front do it. My house was new in 2003, bond was $12,000, I let it go to my taxes, I still owe $5,000 and its still adds another $600 a year to my tax bill.

[Tom53]

If you can roll it over to your mortgage, or better pay it up front do it. My house was new in 2003, bond was $12,000, I let it go to my taxes, I still owe $5,000 and its still adds another $600 a year to my tax bill.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the balance of your bond should have no impact on your taxes, which are based on the assessed value of your home. The bond payment is listed on your trim notice for information only, not part of tax calculation. It's a fixed annual charge based on the unit that you live in. The amortization table is available online.

[biker1]

I could be wrong but I think he means he continues to make the bond payment with his tax bill in November.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the balance of your bond should have no impact on your taxes, which are based on the assessed value of your home. The bond payment is listed on your trim notice for information only, not part of tax calculation. It's a fixed annual charge based on the unit that you live in. The amortization table is available online.

[fishon]

My bond was costing 5.1%.
That’s more than I was willing to pay.

[bpascani]

many pre owned homes still have bonds, so always ask. It isn't always obvious

[Aces4]

Exactly, there's no evidence a bond effects sale price when looking at the county tax records. Some buyers may walk but there are others right behind them.

The only problem with your calculation is the loss the seller has already incurred from all the interest they paid to the developers.

[Challenger]

The correct thing to do. The bond is amortized just like a mortgage, which means the interest is front loaded. You have already paid 80-90% of the interest. No point in paying off the remaining balance at this point.

Neither a mortgage nor the bond has front loaded interest. Show where you found that info.

[Toymeister]

It appears there is some misinformation here. The bond is normally paid MONTHLY at the agreed upon interest rate over a period of typically 25 years

Hope this helps.

Yes, there is misinformation here, including this.

Bonds in TV are paid ANNUALLY. Someone may Think they are paid monthly because they have a mortgage escrow prorated monthly as part of a home mortgage payment but, in fact the bond is paid ANNUALLY. It is collected with your property tax.

If you have no escrow this is very clear you get one, annual, bill for taxes and bond.

Hope this helps!

[valuemkt]

More fear mongering and misinformation. Monarch grove District 12 bond runs $30,500. One way or another someone has to pay for infrastructure. It's a development cost that will always be passed on somewhere and somehow. Lot cost, added to taxes, or separate bond. Compared to many other areas of the southeast, I like the peace of mind that comes with well thought out drainage and flood mitigation protocols. Ever wonder why those sprinklers are inundating the golf courses during the rainy season ? It comes from forethought on how to keep your house dry .. Current bond interest rate 4.3%.. Compare your total tax bill to where you moved or are thinking of moving from. Then make your decision . No one is forcing you in .. or making you stay. tens of thousands of homes have been sold and resold with the bond ..

[Challenger]

At $38,000, yes a deal breaker.

Yes, there is misinformation here, including this.

Bonds in TV are paid ANNUALLY. Someone may Think they are paid monthly because they have a mortgage escrow prorated monthly as part of a home mortgage payment but, in fact the bond is paid ANNUALLY. It is collected with your property tax.

If you have no escrow this is very clear you get one, annual, bill for taxes and bond.

Hope this helps!

Agreed. There is a great deal of misinformation given especially in this thread.

The Bond is not a tax
Interest is not frontloaded
Bond payments are not tax deductible and those that encourage taking such action may well be also violating Federal Law.

There are more

[biker1]

Take a look at any amortization schedule. The majority of the interest is paid in the first half of the mortgage (and the bonds in The Villages). The interest is not evenly spread across all of the payments. That is what I mean by front loading.

"Front-loading means you're paying more interest in the early years of a loan. It works due to simple math: since interest is calculated on the outstanding balance, the interest charge will be high until you pay down the principal."

How Does a Front-Loaded Mortgage Work? - Budgeting Money (https://budgeting.thenest.com/frontloaded-mortgage-work-24047.html)


The amortization schedule for the bonds can be found on districtgov.org. You can pull up any number of amortization calculators on the internet that will show you the front loading of interest.

Neither a mortgage nor the bond has front loaded interest. Show where you found that info.

[biker1]

Wrong. The bond interest is front loaded, as are mortgages.

Agreed. There is a great deal of misinformation given especially in this thread.

The Bond is not a tax
Interest is not frontloaded
Bond payments are not tax deductible and those that encourage taking such action may well be also violating Federal Law.

There are more

[dewilson58]

Take a look at any amortization schedule. The majority of the interest is paid in the first half of the mortgage (and the bonds in The Villages). The interest is not evenly spread across all of the payments. That is what I mean by front loading. The amortization schedule for the bonds can be found on districtgov.org. You can pull up any number of amortization calculators on the internet that will show you the front loading of interest.


That's not front loading..................that is paying the appropriate amount of interest on the current outstanding balance. Wow!!



:ohdear:

[dewilson58]

Neither a mortgage nor the bond has front loaded interest. Show where you found that info.




He doesn't understand loan amortization. :clap2:

[biker1]

Wow yourself.

"Front-loading means you're paying more interest in the early years of a loan. It works due to simple math: since interest is calculated on the outstanding balance, the interest charge will be high until you pay down the principal."

How Does a Front-Loaded Mortgage Work? - Budgeting Money



That's not front loading..................that is paying the appropriate amount of interest on the current outstanding balance. Wow!!



:ohdear:

[boobear51751]

No it is not worth it. We are on our second house and this designer came with a 21k bond. I am sure they will have to lower the price of new homes to be competitive in the retirement community business.

[biker1]

Please spare me the snarkyness. I understand amortization just fine and can derive the formula for you if you wish. The interest is computed on the outstanding balance at each payment period. This results in the majority of the interest being paid in the early half of the loan. This is what I call front loading. If you want to use some other term then fine. The concept is clear.

He doesn't understand loan amortization. :clap2:

[dewilson58]

Please spare me the snarkyness. I understand amortization just fine and can derive the formula for you if you wish. The interest is computed on the outstanding balance at each payment period. This results in the majority of the interest being paid in the early half of the loan. This is what I call front loading. If you want to use some other term then fine. The concept is clear.




Bingo!!!!


TV bonds or a mortgage is not interest front end loaded. Interest is based on the monthly outstanding balance and the principal reduction is based on the overall fixed P&I payment.



Front end interest loaded loans are something different.


:ho:

[manaboutown]

This article has an easily understood analysis of "front loaded" and "back loaded" interest calculations. What is Front-Loaded Interest? – Ultimate Online Bargains (https://www.ultimateonlinebargains.com/2011/08/09/what-is-front-loaded-interest/)

[biker1]

OK, fine, I see your point, and the semantics of this. I should have put quotes, as in "front loading". Again, the point is the majority of the interest is paid early on since the interest payment is compute on the outstanding balance at each payment period. The result is the interest is "front loaded" and not evenly spread across the loan and is not a front-loaded loan.

Bingo!!!!


TV bonds or a mortgage is not interest front end loaded. Interest is based on the monthly outstanding balance and the principal reduction is based on the overall fixed P&I payment.



Front end interest loaded loans are something different.


:ho:

[dewilson58]

I'm not old enough, but I think it was during President Roosevelt's time with "they" ended front-end loaded interest loans.



Prior to, installment loans (mortgages are a type of installment loan) could require 100% of the interest over the term of the loan had to be paid prior to any principal reduction. What a real screw. Government stepped in and stopped this practice by banks. Some credit houses continued the practice for a number of years, but I think the loopholes have been closed.



Maybe there is a historian on ToTV who knows if it was during the Roosevelt era. :shrug:

[biker1]

OK, I see. I was not aware that there was such a critter. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not old enough, but I think it was during President Roosevelt's time with "they" ended front-end loaded interest loans.



Prior to, installment loans (mortgages are a type of installment loan) could require 100% of the interest over the term of the loan had to be paid prior to any principal reduction. What a real screw. Government stepped in and stopped this practice by banks. Some credit houses continued the practice for a number of years, but I think the loopholes have been closed.



Maybe there is a historian on ToTV who knows if it was during the Roosevelt era. :shrug:

[dewilson58]

OK, I see. I was not aware that there was such a critter. Thanks for clarifying.




Let me publicly apologize to you for saying you did not understand amortization.


To be honest, I thought you were stirring up the pot and getting the natives fired up.


I was wrong to think that of you and wrong to say it.


Ride-on Biker, Ride-on.

[biker1]

We are good. I used the wrong terminology and thank you for bringing to my attention that there is a such a thing as a front-loaded loan. I did not work in the financial services industry so I was ignorant of such a critter.

Let me publicly apologize to you for saying you did not understand amortization.


To be honest, I thought you were stirring up the pot and getting the natives fired up.


I was wrong to think that of you and wrong to say it.


Ride-on Biker, Ride-on.

[rjm1cc]

When comparing prices of a home you have to add the bond to the sales price and if it fits your budget and you think the price is reasonable you buy. But remember you are probably going to get an annual maintenance fee charge for the maintenance of the property the bond purchased.

[Velvet]

Yes, you add the bond to the “selling” price of the house to find it’s actual cost to buy. If the actual cost is okay with you, then you go ahead and buy.

[boobear51751]

May have financial security before the biggest drop in the markets history. Young folks won't be interested in this style of cocoon living. Just repeating what many of the 50's people in my extremely successful daughters circle. We are paying 25% more in taxes for this infrastructure. Why 30k?

[Topspinmo]

You need to stop reading that other website.

The 25% increase had nothing to do with the developer, it was the county administration that has been mismanaging the tax money, trying to make themselves look good by lowering taxes the last 14 years so they could brag about what a good job they were doing. Instead they should have been holding the tax rate constant putting away the money for the growth and increased maintenance costs.

The developer/bonds pay for all the new roads and infrastructure for a new development. The impact fees are supposed to pay for upgrading existing county infrastructure (CR468 & CR501) to support the developments that the county approves. One has to ask what they are doing with the money.

The developer doesn't care what the impact fee is, it's just another line item in building the house and they will pass it on to the buyer, just like all taxes are. Do you really think an extra $1000 will stop the sale of any new home in The Villages, I think not.

No, I don’t think so. From what I read Developers has commissioner’s in his pocket, we see how that goes in the next election. Agree, Sumter county had cheap taxes until the new development. But they still have caught up with Marion.

[Hifred]

I have called the Villages government offices and have asked how I can buy these bonds as an investment. No one knows. I would love to invest in The Villages Bonds if they are offered to the public because you know they always get paid. If anyone knows how to purchase these bonds let me know.

[Challenger]

I have called the Villages government offices and have asked how I can buy these bonds as an investment. No one knows. I would love to invest in The Villages Bonds if they are offered to the public because you know they always get paid. If anyone knows how to purchase these bonds let me know.

They are publicly traded bonds. Call your broker. They are highly rated and sought after. Doubt that you will be able to find any immediately for sale . May have to get on an "order list"

[jimbo2012]

My complaint is not price (over 30 years not that much a month) there's a lot of costs in the infrastructure, it's the fact you can't deduct the interest.

[ficoguy]

I used to deduct the bond on my taxes since it sows up as an "ad valurem" item on my tax bill....its a grey area
But now with the $24,600 standard deduction, don't need to itemize
But the interest rate is below 4%

[J1ceasar]

No golf courses so more grern spaces.
38k is crazy.
Samecas paying for a seat on a plane .
M fake pricing. .
No ethics in advertising as its not mentioned anywhere


goDeLuna is in CDD12 and Chitty Chatty is in CDD13. The bonds are not specific to the CDD but to the subdivision (Unit #).

Adjusted for inflation the bonds have not gone up significantly over the last 20 years. Also consider in the newer areas, CDDs 12 & 13, there is a lot more green/open space than anywhere else in The Villages and the overall population density is lower. This results in longer road, more pipes, and more infrastructure in general that has to be paid for. You will pay for it one way or another, as a bond or just rolled into the price of the house the way other developers do it.

This video explains the bonds here in The Villages:

The Villages 5-30-19 Construction update and Bond information - YouTube (https://youtu.be/nGwf7AcmyEI)

[Challenger]

I'm not old enough, but I think it was during President Roosevelt's time with "they" ended front-end loaded interest loans.



Prior to, installment loans (mortgages are a type of installment loan) could require 100% of the interest over the term of the loan had to be paid prior to any principal reduction. What a real screw. Government stepped in and stopped this practice by banks. Some credit houses continued the practice for a number of years, but I think the loopholes have been closed.



Maybe there is a historian on ToTV who knows if it was during the Roosevelt era. :shrug:

The Direct Reduction (DR amortized loan) grew largely out of the The Federal Home Loan Act of 1932. Part of the recovery packages of the Roosevelt administration. From that time on, the principal home lenders( largely S&L') adopted the DR method . Prior to that date almost all loans were short term "Baloons" . There were a variety of methods used for Home Finance in the pre 32 years but all were less fair to the borrower than the DR method in use for the last 88 years.

[rlcooper70]

Friend just bought in Chitty Chatty .... an Ivy with a golf cart garage for $380 ... without the upgrades and with a pond view with the woods in the background over the point. It is ridiculously low for that four bedroom house. Ridiculous. Are they keeping the price of the house that low because they are making it up on the bond? Is this just a balancing act?

[Travelhunter]

DeLuna is in CDD12 and Chitty Chatty is in CDD13. The bonds are not specific to the CDD but to the subdivision (Unit #).

Adjusted for inflation the bonds have not gone up significantly over the last 20 years. Also consider in the newer areas, CDDs 12 & 13, there is a lot more green/open space than anywhere else in The Villages and the overall population density is lower. This results in longer road, more pipes, and more infrastructure in general that has to be paid for. You will pay for it one way or another, as a bond or just rolled into the price of the house the way other developers do it.

This video explains the bonds here in The Villages:

The Villages 5-30-19 Construction update and Bond information - YouTube (https://youtu.be/nGwf7AcmyEI)

Thanks I learned something

[Travelhunter]

We are in home number two and paid the bond in full for both. The bond is part of the home value to us. Paying it like a second mortgage is foolish to me. Yes, there is interest on the bond if paid over time that is higher than mortgage interest. If you can’t pay the bond off, at least add it to your home payment and pay less at the end of the note.
The Rep’s will tell you that no one pays the bond up front, but this is false. At closing on our first home, the buyer confessed to us that our home was a little high, but that our bond was paid so it became a better purchase.

Today’s bonds are approximately:
Patio Villa $19,000
Courtyard $25,000
Designer $35,000

You can find the occasional Cottage home in a Patio Villa neighborhood and pay the $19,000.

My sales rep told me not to pay the bond. He said so many people move after a few years and they do not recover the bond pay off in the sale price
I wonder if that’s true

[dewilson58]

My complaint is not price (over 30 years not that much a month) there's a lot of costs in the infrastructure, it's the fact you can't deduct the interest.


Take out a mortgage loan.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I suppose it depends on how much money you have. If you are very wealthy and can afford a half a million dollar house then it's probably not a big deal. For me, there is no way that I'd buy a house that has any kind of a bond.

[EnglishJW]

Check any payment table (principal and interest) for the actual facts.

[Boilerman]

I used to deduct the bond on my taxes since it sows up as an "ad valurem" item on my tax bill....its a grey area
This is not a grey area. The bond interest is not a tax and is not deductible.

[jellybeanrt]

I would buy a resale, also in Lake County , like Mera Mesa etc. there never was a bond issue. Beautiful homes as well, and location

[John_W]

The amount of the bond and the yearly payment, I just consider it's like another utility. My CYV bond was $14,000 and it's $1100 a year. This year will be my ninth year, so I'm in for $9900 come November. It's not until my 13th year that I break even, by then I'll be 74 and could be dead. If not, my bond payoff will be about $12,000, so I can pay it off or continue to pay $1100 a year. For a bond any bigger than what I pay, I would only look at resales, unless money was no object.

[erojohn]

Seems like a lot but you could be paying it off over a long period of time.
It kind of overstated that taxes went up 25%. My total tax bill was up 7.57%
The Sumter co portion was up a substantial percentage. I choose to look at the bottom line. My bill was up a whopping total of. 233. I challenge anyone to check out the facts and report back. Instead of echoing others complaints about going up 25%. How much did your total tax bill go up? You can take a look at any properties tax records in Sumter County on the tax collectors website and compare Totals and break it down. I find some of my totals have actually gone down.

[dewilson58]

This is not a grey area. The bond interest is not a tax and is not deductible.


Fic said bond, not interest on the bond. Bond has some footage, never tested.

[raney3099]

TV Realty is always going push the new areas. Better to get a realtor from outside to be open and honest with all your questions.

[dewilson58]

My sales rep told me not to pay the bond. He said so many people move after a few years and they do not recover the bond pay off in the sale price
I wonder if that’s true




Yes & No.

[Challenger]

My sales rep told me not to pay the bond. He said so many people move after a few years and they do not recover the bond pay off in the sale price
I wonder if that’s true

No one has ever presented stats on this exact point, and I doubt that it is true. If so it defies all financial logic

[Duane McCartney]

No one buying or selling a house - using a competent real estate sales person, would ever assume a bond. If they do, the sales person is guilty of malfeasance.

A competent real estate agent's job is to advise the client (buyer or seller) about the issues buying within a CDD community. As the seller's agent they should make sure they advertise a property with the bond being paid and price the property appropriately to get the seller their bond payment back. As a buyer's agent they can suggest that the seller pay the bond off as part of the sale contract, but that is highly unlikely if the property still has a high bond amount due. They should point out to the buyer the advantages of buying a property with the bond being paid and how that reflects on the asking price. A real estate agent that goes beyond advising and educating their clients are the ones guilty of malfeasance.

[Mzjaz]

My wife and I have been renting in TV for several months each year for past few years. We are getting ready to retire, downsize, and by a smaller home. Most of the homes we look at are basic builder grade, have cheap cabinets and countertops, have too much deferred maintenance, and are too overpriced. We don't want to spend another $120,000 to bring it up to a level found in houses outside TV. When you add in the taxes and bond it is not an affordable lifestyle we want in retirement. Plus the all the Villa Villages remind us an overpriced mobile home park. Just our observations.

[John_W]

My wife and I have been renting in TV for several months each year for past few years. We are getting ready to retire, downsize, and by a smaller home. Most of the homes we look at are basic builder grade, have cheap cabinets and countertops, have too much deferred maintenance, and are too overpriced. We don't want to spend another $120,000 to bring it up to a level found in houses outside TV. When you add in the taxes and bond it is not an affordable lifestyle we want in retirement. Plus the all the Villa Villages remind us an overpriced mobile home park. Just our observations.

You come here every year to rent, for what reason? If you're looking for a bargain go to Pasco or Hernando County and get a home in a 55+ community for half the price just 20 minutes from the Gulf, that's what I would do if price was the only consideration. The reason they can ask a lot more for the homes, you should have already that figured out and saved your first post for something important.

Here's my overprice mobile home, as you call it. I paid $158K new in 2011 and I've put about $20K into the home. I don't think too many trailer parks look like our villa community, maybe that is just me. It's now been appraised for $249K, that's inflation.

https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93691547_1600074756823717_3207555561759440896_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=A42o9E_Z8s0AX9dQPK2&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-1.xx&oh=5ab988abd1bf4b8c1605c0b9e38254b0&oe=5ED4956E

[Velvet]

Such a handsome home!

[ALadysMom]

Any home one buys ANYWHERE has the individual lot infrastructure costs (the bond amount) built into the pricing. It’s just that here in The Villages those costs are split out. Not a deal breaker.

But a home in Elsewhere, USA would have that $38,000 included in the purchase price. So in order to get a mortgage, the Elsewhere house must appraise high enough to finance the total price. Also, the Elsewhere mortgage’s interest rate would be lower than 6.75% and the term of the Elsewhere mortgage would probably be longer than any TV bond financing term, resulting in much higher monthly payments. And the mortgage interest on the Elsewhere (primary) home would be tax deductible. A buyer would also consider the higher new home amenity fees, property taxes, as well as the current lack of accessibility to needs and conveniences. Since golf is declining in popularity, the new areas have fewer courses. The Villages competes for new retiree buyers far beyond its borders. So the Developer sets the price of the bond, then the Bank collects higher interest on the bonds. Wow. I wonder... who owns Citizens First Bank?

[SusanKD]

I consider it a cost to live in the section I wanted.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Since golf is declining in popularity, the new areas have fewer courses. The Villages competes for new retiree buyers far beyond its borders. So the Developer sets the price of the bond, then the Bank collects higher interest on the bonds. Wow. I wonder... who owns Citizens First Bank?

Apparently, TV's founder was busy founding other things too. Citizens First Bank - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_First_Bank)

In my old age I've learned that businesspeople avail themselves of whatever financial benefits they can. If it's lucrative and not illegal, they jump on it. That's part of the "success" formula and is the way the game is played. Business is not all sunshine and butterflies. We, the consumers, if after considering the ethics of the situation or whether it's in our own financial interest, have the option of not playing the game. I for one chose not to play the bond game.

Not taking sides, it's just the way it is.

[Goldwingnut]

But a home in Elsewhere, USA would have that $38,000 included in the purchase price. So in order to get a mortgage, the Elsewhere house must appraise high enough to finance the total price. Also, the Elsewhere mortgage’s interest rate would be lower than 6.75% and the term of the Elsewhere mortgage would probably be longer than any TV bond financing term, resulting in much higher monthly payments. And the mortgage interest on the Elsewhere (primary) home would be tax deductible. A buyer would also consider the higher new home amenity fees, property taxes, as well as the current lack of accessibility to needs and conveniences. Since golf is declining in popularity, the new areas have fewer courses. The Villages competes for new retiree buyers far beyond its borders. So the Developer sets the price of the bond, then the Bank collects higher interest on the bonds. Wow. I wonder... who owns Citizens First Bank?

You were doing fine at first but fell apart at the end. The bond price is not set by the developer, it is determined by total amount spent for development, divided by the total acreage and then factored by the subdivision acreage divided by the number of homes in the subdivision. The rate of the bond is determined by the market at the time of offering. The bond holders receive the interest paid not a financial institution. The Citizens First Bank has nothing to do with the bonds. If I remember correctly the last bonds sold were facilitated through Chase.

As far as the amenity fee goes, it doesn't matter if you buy a new or existing home, the amenity fee paid is the prevailing rate at the time of purchase, currently $163/month. Similarly any SOH act savings disappear when a home is resold. A $300K home purchased in DeLuna today would pay the same property tax as a $300K home in Alhambra.

The new areas actually have fewer homes per hole of golf than areas north of SR44, it's really about simple math here. No there's not a championship course built yet because there are not enough homes to support it, it takes about 6500-7000 homes on average to support a championship course and they are not quite there yet south of SR44. Remember, championship courses are not amenities, they are a private business that must make money to survive.

As far as stores and restaurants go, 466 & 27/441 were barren for a long time when those areas first started development, the difference is they didn't have the benefit of multiple internet sites where people went to complain and whine about every little thing. The Villages can build all the building for store and restaurants they want, but if a business doesn't feel they want to move there they can't be forced to and the building will remain empty. The demographics of The Villages is a very unique and challenging one and surviving in it takes a lot of planning and risk taking.

[Bogie Shooter]

My wife and I have been renting in TV for several months each year for past few years. We are getting ready to retire, downsize, and by a smaller home. Most of the homes we look at are basic builder grade, have cheap cabinets and countertops, have too much deferred maintenance, and are too overpriced. We don't want to spend another $120,000 to bring it up to a level found in houses outside TV. When you add in the taxes and bond it is not an affordable lifestyle we want in retirement. Plus the all the Villa Villages remind us an overpriced mobile home park. Just our observations.

Why did you continue renting for years? Where are you going to buy?

[jonathanb]

Only if the yearly payment didn’t fit into my budget.

[ALadysMom]

Thanks for the clarification, GoldWingNut. My Dad loved those whisper-quiet bikes too.

[John_W]

Apparently, TV's founder was busy founding other things too. Citizens First Bank - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_First_Bank)

In my old age I've learned that businesspeople avail themselves of whatever financial benefits they can. If it's lucrative and not illegal, they jump on it. That's part of the "success" formula and is the way the game is played...

As we all know, the developer doesn't make all his money just from just selling homes. As you pointed out, his Citizens Banks turn a good profit. Here's one most don't even consider. Almost every golfer in TV whether you play the championship or walk and play the executives for free, they all belong to the teetime system. That's $8 a month on your credit card, $96 a year for basically doing nothing but provide a interactive website. Let's say they're are 20,000 who belong, it might be way more, and at $96 a year times 20,000 equals $1,920,000. Pretty good pocket change for a website.

[Pballer]

Seems like a lot but you could be paying it off over a long period of time.
It kind of overstated that taxes went up 25%. My total tax bill was up 7.57%
The Sumter co portion was up a substantial percentage. I choose to look at the bottom line. My bill was up a whopping total of. 233. I challenge anyone to check out the facts and report back. Instead of echoing others complaints about going up 25%. How much did your total tax bill go up? You can take a look at any properties tax records in Sumter County on the tax collectors website and compare Totals and break it down. I find some of my totals have actually gone down.

My property taxes went up over $1000 or 25% this year. You must be a Florida resident. Besides raising the tax rate, the Sumter County assessor, instead of doing his job and raising property market values slowly and steadily over a period of years to reflect reality, decided to hike property market values in The Villages by 15+% last year in one fell swoop.

Because of SOH (Save Our Homes Act = Shaft Out-of-State Homeowners Act), snowbirds were hammered with much higher property tax increases than you saw. The assessed value of the home of a Florida resident can only increase by the Consumer Price Index every year (around 2%) even though its market value as determined by Sumter County went up by 15%. On the other hand, the snowbird (non-Florida resident) saw the 15% market value increase translated directly into a 15% assessed value increase in just one year. The increased tax rate is then applied to this increased assessed value (2% vs 15%) minus any homestead exemption.

[TexasHoldEm]

A big problem is that the agents don't tell people about the bond until the buyers are emotionally vested in the house they want. I have an acquaintance who was interested in buying here. I told him to ask how much the bond is on the house he was interested in. The response he got "it's based on the price of the house." That's not an answer!! They really don't want you to ask.

[Graspher]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes.

We just landed a house in Sumter county built in 2008. Bond never paid off. 12 years later as we take the helm - current balance is 34k - it started at 45k.

38k is a reduction in my world.

This house checks off a ton more boxes then we ever expected. So we triggered the purchase knowing the real agreed price was contract price plus bond balance.

It’s a choice - some are painful others aren’t. Find your own happy path...and trigger that direction.

[ALadysMom]

My property taxes went up over $1000 or 25% this year. You must be a Florida resident. Besides raising the tax rate, the Sumter County assessor, instead of doing his job and raising property market values slowly and steadily over a period of years to reflect reality, decided to hike property market values in The Villages by 15+% last year in one fell swoop.

Because of SOH (Save Our Homes Act = Shaft Out-of-State Homeowners Act), snowbirds were hammered with much higher property tax increases than you saw. The assessed value of the home of a Florida resident can only increase by the Consumer Price Index every year (around 2%) even though its market value as determined by Sumter County went up by 15%. On the other hand, the snowbird (non-Florida resident) saw the 15% market value increase translated directly into a 15% assessed value increase in just one year. The increased tax rate is then applied to this increased assessed value (2% vs 15%) minus any homestead exemption.

Yikes! So what happens to the assessed value when the houses are sold?

Does the FL residents’ assessed value suddenly jump up to current market value when the sale is recorded?

I’m sure the home with an out of state owner would not have a reduction in their assessed value even if it is sold to a FL resident.

Does the disparity in assessed value remain forever?

[Byte1]

If you search for pre-owned homes that are 20 years old, I would venture to say that you will find that the bonds are paid off. If you add $38K to the price of the home, you will almost double the price of the same home price of those outside of the Villages. Charging for infrastructure separately is like giving you the price of a home and telling you that the cost of plumbing is a separate charge, or the price of electrical wiring is a separate charge. BUT, if you want to live in the Villages you will pay whatever you are willing to pay to live the "lifestyle." To some, $38k is nothing and to others it is a deal breaker.

[JimJohnson]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker on a new home purchase, or would you consider it just the cost of living in The Villages and enjoying the active lifestyle?

We just bought a designer in Chitty Chatty. I guess we got lucky as our bond was only $37,300.00.

[JimJohnson]

We just bought a designer in Chitty Chatty. I guess we got lucky as our bond was only $37,300.00.

Just a thought, the last car we bought in 2016 cost us $48,000.00. That makes the bond seem a little smaller. :)

[Challenger]

exactly my concern about paying off the bond

I believe that Florida Law should be amended to relfect "asking Price" plus all liens that the seller will not pay at settlement or prior. Any other method is somewhat fraudulent in my mind. Total consideration is the Real Price . Sales people don't like this kind of disclosure.

[manaboutown]

Just a thought, the last car we bought in 2016 cost us $48,000.00. That makes the bond seem a little smaller. :)

The bond definitely looks small compared to the RR Cullinan which runs upwards of $350,000 plus tax of course. Or you could settle for a Bentley Bentayga if the Cullinan is too rich for your blood.

[Pballer]

Yikes! So what happens to the assessed value when the houses are sold?

Does the FL residents’ assessed value suddenly jump up to current market value when the sale is recorded?

I’m sure the home with an out of state owner would not have a reduction in their assessed value even if it is sold to a FL resident.

Does the disparity in assessed value remain forever?

The Save Our Homes Act (SOH) only permits the assessed value of homes of Florida residents to increase per year a maximum of the Consumer Price Index increase or 3% whichever is less. So over time, the disparity in assessed values (and property taxes!) between the homes of Florida residents and out-of-state residents has, and will continue, to get worse; this is especially true when the property assessor doesn't increase the market value of houses each year as prices go up, but rather combines it all into a huge increase in market value in just one year like the 15% market value increase last year by Sumter County.

If a Florida resident sells his house to an out-of-state resident, the assessed value of the house will immediately rise to the market value for the new owner. Even if the out-of-state resident later becomes a Florida resident, he is out of luck; he will never get his house down to the assessed value that the seller had.

If the homeowner (doesn't matter whether or not he is a Florida resident) sells the house to a Florida resident, the Florida resident can transfer the SOH benefit from his old house to reduce the assessed value of the house he just purchased.

Unlike most states, the Save Our Homes Act is a great way for Florida to stick it to out-of-state homeowners in order to keep taxes down for residents and to insure that non-residents pay an increasingly disproportionate share of property taxes as home values rise over time.

[jimbo2012]

The bond definitely looks small compared to the RR Cullinan which runs upwards of $350,000 plus tax of course. Or you could settle for a Bentley Bentayga if the Cullinan is too rich for your blood.

But the lease is only $6500 a month

[joseppe]

I think of the 'bond' as part of the Taxation of the property. It is in fact listed and paid with your property tax. I would never consider the bond as part of the cost of the property any more than I would consider the Tax part of the cost or 'basis' of the property. Paying the bond in full is akin to pre-paying your property tax for the next 30 years. Who would do that? Bonds have become a popular way for developments to create better infrastructure. The villages is not the only place you will find Bonds being used for this. We recently moved here from California where we had something called 'Mello Roos' that applied to many, many development areas in Southern California. Same concept as Bonds here in Florida. Personally I would never pay off a bond any more than I would pre-pay Property tax. Should you choose to sell the property its not likely you would recoup the money you put into paying the bond. If you were going to live in the home for the 30 years of the bond's lifetime then it could make sense to pay the bond to save the interest you would pay but few here would make that stretch of time.

[biker1]

Regarding your assertion that you would not be able to recover the bond payoff when selling the house, what data do you base this statement on? Regarding interest, the bond is amortized as a 30 year mortgage which means most of the interest is paid in the early years. After 10 years, you will have paid about 50% of the total interest. You do not have to stay in the house 30 years to save substantially on the non-deductible interest of the bond. Regarding trying to conflate property taxes with the bond, your total bond payments will be more than 2x the original bond principle. If I could prepay my property taxes for the future at 50% today, I would certainly consider it. Before paying off the bond, it is worthwhile to consider how the funds that would be used to pay off the bond are currently invested and the after tax return versus the saved non-deductible interest.

I think of the 'bond' as part of the Taxation of the property. It is in fact listed and paid with your property tax. I would never consider the bond as part of the cost of the property any more than I would consider the Tax part of the cost or 'basis' of the property. Paying the bond in full is akin to pre-paying your property tax for the next 30 years. Who would do that? Bonds have become a popular way for developments to create better infrastructure. The villages is not the only place you will find Bonds being used for this. We recently moved here from California where we had something called 'Mello Roos' that applied to many, many development areas in Southern California. Same concept as Bonds here in Florida. Personally I would never pay off a bond any more than I would pre-pay Property tax. Should you choose to sell the property its not likely you would recoup the money you put into paying the bond. If you were going to live in the home for the 30 years of the bond's lifetime then it could make sense to pay the bond to save the interest you would pay but few here would make that stretch of time.

[jimbo2012]

I agree, take two similar houses, one for $250K bond not paid, another for $275K bond paid

which one do think sells first?

I say the $250K home

[biker1]

Any buyer with half a brain would realize that the higher selling price for a house with a paid off bond also results in lower annual carrying cost for the house since they don't have to make a bond payment. There is no free lunch.

I agree, take two similar houses, one for $250K bond not paid, another for $275K bond paid

which one do think sells first?

I say the $250K home

[Timothyimitchell]

I spoke yesterday with a Villages sales agent. She said almost all of the new patio villas carry a 15,000 bond.

[HimandMe]

Ahh....if I was now buying and the bond was an extra $38k...yep, deal breaker

[DDVeteran]

Many buyers are minimally aware of the cost and description of the bond up until the time they examine, or not, the closing documents. The bond should be posted front and center so that any prospective buyer will engage with the broker in a thorough conversation regarding it.

[HimandMe]

A realtor showed us a place on a swamp and called it premium waterfront... we laughed.

[HimandMe]

My wife and I have been renting in TV for several months each year for past few years. We are getting ready to retire, downsize, and by a smaller home. Most of the homes we look at are basic builder grade, have cheap cabinets and countertops, have too much deferred maintenance, and are too overpriced. We don't want to spend another $120,000 to bring it up to a level found in houses outside TV. When you add in the taxes and bond it is not an affordable lifestyle we want in retirement. Plus the all the Villa Villages remind us an overpriced mobile home park. Just our observations.

It’s not for you... you don’t value what is available in the community . That is okay, lots of people want something different but lots love it too.

[jimbo2012]

A realtor showed us a place on a swamp and called it premium waterfront... we laughed.

Shouldn't laugh, they are worth every penny look at resales

[VApeople]

A realtor showed us a place on a swamp and called it premium waterfront... we laughed.

I'm guessing it was one of the first two houses on the left as you drive into Chitty Chatty. We looked at the house as it was being built and it reminded me of the movie 'Swamp Thing'.

The first house on the swamp is an Aspen for the bargain price of $493K. Go for it. Who knows, you might find Adrienne Barbeau sleeping on your lanai one morning.

[jimbo2012]

yep, in two years worth about $700K

Just be clear, you need to google a definition of a Swamp Vs Wetlands :1rotfl:

[vintageogauge]

My wife and I have been renting in TV for several months each year for past few years. We are getting ready to retire, downsize, and by a smaller home. Most of the homes we look at are basic builder grade, have cheap cabinets and countertops, have too much deferred maintenance, and are too overpriced. We don't want to spend another $120,000 to bring it up to a level found in houses outside TV. When you add in the taxes and bond it is not an affordable lifestyle we want in retirement. Plus the all the Villa Villages remind us an overpriced mobile home park. Just our observations.

For the last few years you have been here using and enjoying the amenities but now you are critical of the homes that are available. Surely there is something here that is equal to the level you found outside of TV. It sounds more like you are not able to find what you want in your price range and can't afford to buy what you really are looking for. Stating that the Villa's remind you of an overpriced mobile home park is a slap in the face to the tens of thousands of individuals who bought what was in their price range and are totally enjoying The Villages life. I don't think you will be happy owning a home in TV so you are probably better off continuing to be just a renter or buy one of the higher level homes outside of TV with lesser amenities.

[Bogie Shooter]

Probably time to quit renting too......

[VApeople]

Just be clear, you need to google a definition of a Swamp Vs Wetlands :

I have never understood the difference between a swamp and a wetland.

To help me, how about you visit the house I mentioned and tell us if it backs up to a swamp or a wetland.

If you don't make it back, we will assume the Swamp Thing has grabbed you, and that will answer our question.

[DDVeteran]

A realtor showed us a place on a swamp and called it premium waterfront... we laughed.

Were you dissatisfied with the lack of white caps?

[JohnN]

Our bond was $13,000, 8 years ago but still. $38K is quite high, but just price it into your overall price budget and see if it's a fit for you.

[Pballer]

I'm guessing it was one of the first two houses on the left as you drive into Chitty Chatty. We looked at the house as it was being built and it reminded me of the movie 'Swamp Thing'.

The first house on the swamp is an Aspen for the bargain price of $493K. Go for it. Who knows, you might find Adrienne Barbeau sleeping on your lanai one morning.

Do you know if Chitty Chatty has good views of the high voltage power lines?

[dewilson58]

Bonds have escalated to 38K on new homes. Would this be a deal breaker ?




No.


It's the same as, if the price of houses increased $10,000 or $20,000 or $30,000 , "would this be a deal breaker?" No, just buy less house if you can't afford it.



For the last ~10 years, some homes have had bonds over $40,000 and they sold.


Supply & Demand baby, Supply & Demand.