The curve has been flattened

[Swoop]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

[Vikingjunior]

I think until we have no more fatal car accidents no one should be able to drive.

[Lindamct]

You are correct. Now they are furloughing our Doctors and nurses. Pray a real medical emergency does not happen in the midst of hospitals losing millions and closing down. Live on, smile and let's get through this reasonably. Please be logical even though it is difficult in the face of fear.������������������������

[gadaboutgal]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

Such good news! Can you provide a source for your info. Thank you

[ficoguy]

Empty hospital beds....ICUs only at 30% of capacity, hospital ships and field hospitals never or minimally used, a country awash in masks and gloves....respirators at $ 16,000 a unit sitting in warehouses....government handouts like candy for things not even related to CV19, like AMTRAK and the Kennedy Arts Center....sounds like a good overblown crisis to me....

[thelegges]

Such good news! Can you provide a source for your info. Thank you

I can for a fact tell you in just one hospital system, that has 6 facilities 61% are furloughed. Had to use their vacation time up, no unemployment, and their health insurance is $1435.00, per month

[UpNorth]

If you are waiting for the last person to die from Covid before it is "over", you might as well stay indoors with your mask on and wait for your own demise.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

And you read it in the internet so it must be true

[Swoop]

And you read it in the internet so it must be true

The number of new cases is not going up exponentially, no hospitals have run out of ICU beds or ventilators. If you have an underlying condition, do your best to stay isolated, otherwise it’s time to allow people to resume normal activities.

[karostay]

The number of new cases is not going up exponentially, no hospitals have run out of ICU beds or ventilators. If you have an underlying condition, do your best to stay isolated, otherwise it’s time to allow people to resume normal activities.

23 K yesterday, That's nothing to sneeze at figuratively speaking

[Swoop]

23 K yesterday, That's nothing to sneeze at figuratively speaking

Remember that the goal of the lockdown was to flatten the curve. The number of new cases is not increasing. The curve has been flattened. That was why the country was shut down. The goal has been achieved. The virus is still spreading and will continue to spread, but at a manageable rate. That’s what those who sold us on the lockdown promised us from the beginning. Not stopping the virus, just slowing the spread.

[Marathon Man]

Remember that the goal of the lockdown was to flatten the curve. The number of new cases is not increasing. The curve has been flattened. That was why the country was shut down. The goal has been achieved. The virus is still spreading and will continue to spread, but at a manageable rate. That’s what those who sold us on the lockdown promised us from the beginning. Not stopping the virus, just slowing the spread.

If the curve was flatened by the shut down, doesn't it follow that the curve would turn upward if the lockdown ends?

[Swoop]

If the curve was flatened by the shut down, doesn't it follow that the curve would turn upward if the lockdown ends?
If the curve was flattened by the lockdown, then there should be an increase in the infection rate as things open back up. As long as it doesn’t increase to a level that overwhelms hospital ICU units, then the curve is still “flattened”. If infection rate doesn’t spike, then it shows that the lockdown has not had a great deal of effect on the spread of the virus.

[xNYer]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

The goal was to reduce the spread of the disease. Where are links to statements by public health officials and epidemiologists that the goal was merely to prevent hospital overload. Not statements by politicians with their own agendas.

[Swoop]

The goal was to reduce the spread of the disease. Where are links to statements by public health officials and epidemiologists that the goal was merely to prevent hospital overload. Not statements by politicians with their own agendas.
“The WHO has repeatedly underlined the importance of "flattening the curve" in order to tackle the coronavirus outbreak, calling on countries around the world to impose sweeping public health measures.“

[karostay]

Remember that the goal of the lockdown was to flatten the curve. The number of new cases is not increasing. The curve has been flattened. That was why the country was shut down. The goal has been achieved. The virus is still spreading and will continue to spread, but at a manageable rate. That’s what those who sold us on the lockdown promised us from the beginning. Not stopping the virus, just slowing the spread.

Better recheck your sources

Cases in the U.S. | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html)


TOTAL CASES
1,300,696
26,660 New Cases*

[xNYer]

Empty hospital beds....ICUs only at 30% of capacity, hospital ships and field hospitals never or minimally used, a country awash in masks and gloves....respirators at $ 16,000 a unit sitting in warehouses....government handouts like candy for things not even related to CV19, like AMTRAK and the Kennedy Arts Center....sounds like a good overblown crisis to me....

I meant the the idea that the goal is only to flatten the curve.
I know I practiced social distancing and wore a mask when needed to lessen my chances of getting sick. Did you only observe precautions to flatten the curve as a social benefit and will now expose yourself to getting Covid-19 since the hospitals are no longer overwhelmed? Good luck with that, I don’t think in the real world people protected themselves because they wanted to flatten the curve and not because they want to be personally safe.
Since the curve is flattened, and that’s what you think matters, do what you did before, go out, shake hands ,etc. just stay away from me.

[graciegirl]

“The WHO has repeatedly underlined the importance of "flattening the curve" in order to tackle the coronavirus outbreak, calling on countries around the world to impose sweeping public health measures.“

I just read back on your posts. You moved here in December of 2019 so I am guessing you are in your fifties? One of the reasons MOST of us are concerned about not catching this nasty bug is that we are all older and that makes us more vulnerable to dying from it.

I know that is a factor for the two of us. We are hoping for a vaccine or a medical tool that would make it less deadly.

[Swoop]

Better recheck your sources

Cases in the U.S. | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html)


TOTAL CASES
1,300,696
26,660 New Cases*

Recheck what data? The concept of flattening the curve is to keep the level cases below the point where ICU units aren’t overloaded. They aren’t - anywhere in the country. Even NY which was the hardest hit state by far, has plenty of capacity. They have sent the hospital ship Comfort away because it’s not needed.

[xNYer]

I just read back on your posts. You moved here in December of 2019 so I am guessing you are in your fifties? One of the reasons MOST of us are concerned about not catching this nasty bug is that we are all older and that makes us more vulnerable to dying from it.

I know that is a factor for the two of us. We are hoping for a vaccine or a medical tool that would make it less deadly.

I’m with you on this. His idea is that the hospitals won’t be overwhelmed. Great, now if I get Covid-19 I can be confident I will be able to get on a ventilator if I need one.
That does not exactly make me feel better and now risk getting sick.

[Topspinmo]

You are correct. Now they are furloughing our Doctors and nurses. Pray a real medical emergency does not happen in the midst of hospitals losing millions and closing down. Live on, smile and let's get through this reasonably. Please be logical even though it is difficult in the face of fear.��������������� ���������

So, where did the 3 trillion go? I thought it was to help medical facilities, and find vaccine?

[ONTAP15]

15,000 dead New Yorkers doesn't sound like an over blown crisis to me.

[Swoop]

I just read back on your posts. You moved here in December of 2019 so I am guessing you are in your fifties? One of the reasons MOST of us are concerned about not catching this nasty bug is that we are all older and that makes us more vulnerable.

I know that is a factor for the two of us. We are hoping for a vaccine or a medical tool that would make it less deadly.

Actually I moved here in August of 2017 & I’m 60, but if was your age or had a pre existing condition I would be taking greater precautions. That said, the majority of the nation’s population isn’t over 65/70 & doesn’t have a pre existing condition. So, those in that category should be more careful, but the rest of the population should be able to resume their lives. Hopefully they come up with a vaccine, but they have yet to find a vaccine for any Covid strain. They have been working on one for SARS for 18 years without a solution.

[Joanne19335]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

We are still a long way from “mission accomplished”. You still have to be very careful or we’re in for a spike in positive cases.

[stadry]

vaccine for aids has been sought for lots longer - 1981,,, waiting on kung flu vaccine ? call me - i have a bridge for sale,,, since some think n y times is go-to source of truth, i'll even run an ad there

[DecaturFargo]

Not sure what figures you're looking at but our numbers are still going up, not down. What's your hurry?

[DONKEY10]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

Absolutely correct-open up the economy and gyms

[MOMOH]

Just because the curve is flattening, and you will be able to get into a hospital for care, doesn't mean that you will be able to be cured. The problem with this disease is that in many cases it can't be cured and you only get into the hospital for them to try. Until there's a vaccine or cure this isn't over.

[Leadbone1]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

Thank you. Nice to see that someone actually gets it. Doctors have said that the same amount of people are going to get this virus. All we did was spread it out. You can’t stay locked in forever. You can’t wear a mask forever. This virus is no different than the other flu type viruses that are out there every year. We now know that the mortality rate of this is going to be the same as the flu in the end. To me from what we know now, this whole thing was unnecessary and a total paranoid overreaction with a lot of unnecessary damage done.

[Leadbone1]

We are still a long way from “mission accomplished”. You still have to be very careful or we’re in for a spike in positive cases.

Wow, there is no mission accomplished!! This is a virus the same as the other flu viruses that are out there all the time. And the more testing we do the more cases we are going to find and that’s a good thing. 95% of the people that get this virus have zero or mild symptoms. We need a certain percentage of the population to get this to achieve herd immunity. You don’t get that by locking yourself in the house. The media and those in government with a political agenda have certainly done their job to create paranoia like I have never seen. Sad

[Lindsyburnsy]

If all the fatal car accidents happened within a 2 month period, then yes, you would have to think about driving habits. Not apples and oranges comparison.

[JonWilliams]

Not sure what figures you're looking at but our numbers are still going up, not down. What's your hurry?

Another day with no new COVID-19 cases in The Villages. 70 in Sumter County portion, 7 in Lake County portion, 1 in Marion County portion. Not a single new case so far this month.

404 Not Found (http://https://floridadisaster.org/globalassets/covid19/dailies/covid-19-data---daily-report-2020-05-10-10am.pdf)

The cases by city and county begin on page 6, listed in order by number of cases, so you have to scroll a ways to find The Villages.

A big part of the rationale for the lockdown/stay-at-home was that estimates of cases (e.g., Cuomo, 200,000+ in NY) was taken to mean that a like number of hospital beds and ventilators would be required. Thankfully, that turned out not to be true. In Florida, of 39,514 cases to date, 7,171 (18%) required hospitalization. 1,721 deceased (4.4%). Same source as above.

At the same time, there is considerable evidence of deteriorating health in other areas, which provides a strong rationale for reopening in an intelligent way. This includes, as I have posted in the Health Forum, young children not keeping wellness appointments (20 to 30% of normal) thus forgoing vaccinations for potentially fatal childhood diseases; emergency room visits occurring at 40 to 50% of normal, including for heart attacks which normally increase when there is an increase in respiratory illness; opiod deaths increasing; cancer patients unable to get elective surgery (thankfully this last seems to be ending as states relax their rules). Sources for these statements as posted in the Health Forum

The nation is paying a dire cost for the lockdown orders. It is now time for those who are most vulnerable to continue to shelter in place while the rest of the country returns to normal.

[JonWilliams]

The "404 not found" citation is Home | Florida Disaster (http://www.floridadisaster.org), click on Latest Information on COVID--19, then on Daily Report.

[Cheapbas]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

We have a different goal here in the villages.

It’s keep your name off of a park bench.

Stop trying to sell this “goal achieved” thing and suggest we should be “moving on”. We are not at a green light.

look at the Revised death toll estimates

The president just up’d his death toll estimates 2x to 120k. The CDC along with some wiz MIT Modeler think 261k by august.

the Governor Recently said 85% of the deaths in this state were over 65. The average age in TV is around 72.

Let individuals here make their own decisions, you shouldn’t be encouraging anything.

[JonWilliams]

For a thoughtful essay on the tradeoffs between maintaining the shutdown and reopening, to to The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com) and search for the article titled "Take the Shutdown Skeptics Seriously."

Here's a sample "The general point is that minimizing the number of COVID-19 deaths today or a month from now or six months from now may or may not minimize the human costs of the pandemic when the full spectrum of human consequences is considered."

[Swoop]

Just because the curve is flattening, and you will be able to get into a hospital for care, doesn't mean that you will be able to be cured. The problem with this disease is that in many cases it can't be cured and you only get into the hospital for them to try. Until there's a vaccine or cure this isn't over.
Sure they are working on a vaccine, but they have been working on one for the SARS strain of the Covid virus for 18 years. How long are you prepared to be shut down for?

[Luvs21putt]

Yes, and they will have to monitor whether certain locations are headed for trouble. Otherwise, open back up

millions are losing their jobs, their small businesses built on hard work and sacrifice. Big businesses are going under. Hospitals are going under. People will lose their homes, And not be able to feed their families. This is a train wreck if we don’t open back up. You personally, are going to have to pay for it all when the country goes down the tubes. The “government” is funded by YOU. Just hope that we can fund our national defense And social security. There are lots of consequences to not opening back up. You can’t have such a narrow focus. We don’t shut down the country to keep people from dying of the flu; even though this is worse we still can’t just shut the country down indefinitely

[tvbound]

I personally wish the herd immunity crowd would just be more honest and call it what it really is.

Since the concept is to make the herd stronger by eliminating the old, weak, sick or otherwise medically compromised, just call it what it is - "thinning the herd."

[Eg_cruz]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.
Absolutely

[Swoop]

We have a different goal here in the villages.

It’s keep your name off of a park bench.

Stop trying to sell this “goal achieved” thing and suggest we should be “moving on”. We are not at a green light.

look at the Revised death toll estimates

The president just up’d his death toll estimates 2x to 120k. The CDC along with some wiz MIT Modeler think 261k by august.

the Governor Recently said 85% of the deaths in this state were over 65. The average age in TV is around 72.

Let individuals here make their own decisions, you shouldn’t be encouraging anything.

I’m suggesting that the governor let people make their own decisions. Maintaining the lockdown takes away people’s options. The reason the restrictions were put in place was to flatten the curve. If the governor lifts the restrictions you are more than welcome to continue them. Continue to stay at home, wear a mask & don’t go to restaurants, gyms, or other non essential stores.

[Heather296]

People HAVE forgotten that. It drives me crazy. Some people saying things should be shut down until there’s a vaccine. This virus is highly contagious, not highly deadly. 🤦*♀️

[Beyond The Wall]

Go to ANY STATES website for stats.

[Jacob85]

Flattening the curve does not mean the virus is gone, so this is correct. I for one don’t want to be one of those people hospitalized with better treatment because that doesn’t mean you will survive. I guess that’s why the death rate predicted has gone up.

[TandHSTAR@AOL.com]

Thank you. Now we can go back to being normal? We still have to be vigilant and practice safety first.

[karostay]

Recheck what data? The concept of flattening the curve is to keep the level cases below the point where ICU units aren’t overloaded. They aren’t - anywhere in the country. Even NY which was the hardest hit state by far, has plenty of capacity. They have sent the hospital ship Comfort away because it’s not needed.
Only because Mayor of NY sent patients to nursing homes
That were in no way a medical facility properly equipped to handle Covid patients

How did that work out..Their Dead

Wasn't because the ship wasn't needed

[merrymini]

The WHO has shown itself to be biased and unreliable by its commitment to trusting China and its lies.

[Joe C.]

#1 Do really believe everything the WHO says? Their main goal is preserving their organization. While they do have doctors and nurses who are passionate about saving lives, their administration part of their business has other (financial, political) interests.

#2 The OP has it right.

#3 It is also about (government) controlling all aspects of our lives.

#4 Follow the $$$ … see where it's all going now.

#5 Unfortunately, today's condition can bring us closer to socialism than we've ever
been.

#6 I don't trust the government and certainly don't believe the crap that the media puts
out. Whether it's the television news, newspapers or the internet, it's all designed to
influence us.

[Klatu]

The goal was to reduce the spread of the disease in a huge surge, all at once; it was not intended to stop it forever. Remember the graphs with the spike, that would overwhelm health care facilities? The curve has been flattened and facilities have excess capacity. Yes, when lockdown ends, there will be rise, but not the tsunami we were told was about to come. Suggesting the lockdown is to reduce the infection spreading is a clear case of alarmists moving the goalposts when the problem seems to on its way to resolution. We were not "sold" on the idea that lockdown would continue until a vaccine would be found, just until the spread has been flattened. Now we're at that point and the doomsayers are saying we need to wait longer, longer. And they are not to be trusted. After all, there are folks involved in this discussion nationally who see benefit from ongoing lockdown which cripples the economy and can be used to defeat Trump in November.

One more thing. As testing increases in number, the number of cases identified will increase. Let's not take seriously the panic reporting from biased sources at the "increase" in cases. The cases were/are there regardless of testing; we are just uncovering them. After all, if we started "testing" to see how many people cheat on their income taxes --even if only a few dollars -- and found out the number was large, then would we be justified to say there is a surge in cheating? No; we are just identifying the number that was there all along. In the case of the Wuhan virus, it is hospitalizations that we need to monitor.

And one more thing: postponement of elective surgery. It has caused hospitals to lay off staff. This is another effect of the panic that said we must shutdown. Elective surgeries are not inconsequential. They are not cosmetic or minor surgery, just surgery that allows for the date to be chosen ("elected"). How many people were put off surgery of a serious nature by this lockdown?

In sum, this lockdown did bend the curve. But it must end, for the good of individuals, the economy, our national spirit. And Florida is doing it right. Just check this article and be glad we are not saddled with the kind of leadership Illinois folks have to contend with:

Commentary: Sorry, Illinois, but Florida is doing this reopening thing right - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-coronavirus-reopen-florida-illinois-dennis-byrne-20200508-hrlytunuwrgdxawpilvmvo6eaa-story.html)

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Great thread. Can we get our resident doctors to chime in? Are they Blue Ash and Golfing Eagles, is that right?

Paging...

[Kathi71]

THe cur ve has not been flattened. It has been bent so that the angle is not as steep. If it were flattened it would be horizontal. Best case would be if it were at an acute angle and headed down.

[EdFNJ]

Unfortunately there are way too many scared and paranoid people around right now. They have bought into this government and media generated over-reaction to a virus. Based on testing we now know that this virus will have about the same mortality rate as the flu that comes around every year, meaning that this whole thing was unnecessary. Some confrontations are inevitable as the paranoid want you to be like them. Why does everyone compare this to the flu ? It's not only the higher "mortality rate" that makes this dangerous it's the fact that it is twice as contagious over a shorter period of time:

Flu deaths vs. coronavirus deaths: These reasons show why Covid-19 can be more dangerous than the flu - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/01/health/flu-vs-coronavirus-deaths/index.html)

Q&A: Similarities and differences – COVID-19 and influenza (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-similarities-and-differences-covid-19-and-influenza#:~:text=The%20speed%20of%20transmission% 20is,major%20driver%20of%20transmission).

[rmd2]

Not sure what figures you're looking at but our numbers are still going up, not down. What's your hurry?

The numbers in TV have gone down ever so slightly. For about 3 weeks it has been at 79 and a few days ago it went down to 77. Of the 77 we don't know how many people have already fully recovered.

[Indydealmaker]

“The WHO has repeatedly underlined the importance of "flattening the curve" in order to tackle the coronavirus outbreak, calling on countries around the world to impose sweeping public health measures.“

As far as I am concerned, WHO has lost its credibility. It now appears to be just another political entity.

[graciegirl]

We have a different goal here in the villages.

It’s keep your name off of a park bench.

Stop trying to sell this “goal achieved” thing and suggest we should be “moving on”. We are not at a green light.

look at the Revised death toll estimates

The president just up’d his death toll estimates 2x to 120k. The CDC along with some wiz MIT Modeler think 261k by august.

the Governor Recently said 85% of the deaths in this state were over 65. The average age in TV is around 72.

Let individuals here make their own decisions, you shouldn’t be encouraging anything.


I absolutely agree. Heck I even like your NAME! I bet your mom didn't have anything but smart kids. Well said, sir or madam. Proud to know you live here.

[Swoop]

As far as I am concerned, WHO has lost its credibility. It now appears to be just another political entity.

I absolutely agree. I only posted that in response to someone who questioned who had recommended flattening the curve to begin with. The WHO was one of many, I was just citing them as one source.

[argos5usa]

We've reached the point of diminishing returns from the lock down and entering the area of harmful effects on people's health as a result of the Rec Department deciding to keep Pickleball courts and other physical activities closed.

There's no valid excuse for not opening the Pickleball courts now.

[Swoop]

THe cur ve has not been flattened. It has been bent so that the angle is not as steep. If it were flattened it would be horizontal. Best case would be if it were at an acute angle and headed down.

Here is a link to a graph of “flattening the curve”. As long as we stay below the dotted line (not overwhelming hospitals) we have succeeded in flattening the curve. That was the purpose of the shutdown.
How to Flatten the Curve on Coronavirus - The New York Times (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/article/flatten-curve-coronavirus.amp.html)

[billethkid]

We have the luxury of being able to choose whether and what should be open or not. and for how long.
And we also have the choice to not leave home or participate in anything we choose or not.
Now we have people doing our shopping for us.....for almost anything.

Our retirement revenue/income (for most of us) is not dependent on opening or closing of anything.

The real issue is just how long can businesses be shut down before they go out of business?
How long can the government be handing out money to people who are out of work?

In the short term we are paying a price with objectives to flatten the curve and start back to normal.

Both the small and large businesses are approaching their survival limit. Many would not be able to survive stopping or back to closing down.

Whether we like it or not America cannot survive a return to shutting down again. The price has already been paid to do that. We are going to be faced with decisions to be made just like we have on current and past prices to be paid.....lives lost to the flu each and every year....lives lost on the highway each and every day.....we will be facing the same outlook/attitude/tolerance toward Covid-19 numbers......until such time as there is a cure or vaccine (maybe 50% will opt to get).

It is likely shutting down America will end the ability for many to ever get back to any semblance of past levels of normal.

There will be different price to be paid.....that will become, like so many others, tolerable.

I do hope I am wrong.

[canyonblue]

Flu deaths vs. coronavirus deaths: These reasons show why Covid-19 can be more dangerous than the flu - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/01/health/flu-vs-coronavirus-deaths/index.html)


Sorry, I just can't watch the Coronavirus Negative News, aka CNN.

[Don Ferguson]

One death is too many! That is an absolute truism! Every single death from COVID-19 is a tragedy to every friend and family member of the deceased. People have certainly died from this virus unleashed on us. Our short term "lock down" reaction was justified for all, and certainly remains a viable choice for us "old and vulnerable to comorbidity problems "! HOWEVER, as a national strategy it is not an exaggeration to state IT IS DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY! Our response is completely out of proportion to the problem. Even if you believe the inflated COVID-19 death numbers, try and put them in perspective. If corona virus continues unabated (we do nothing) , it would be only the 7th leading cause of death per year in this country! Anybody consider shutting down to cure heart disease (655,381 deaths per year) Cancer (599,274/year) etc. etc. I believe I have more than earned the right to criticize this strategy since I am solidly in the absolute maximum vulnerability categories of age AND I have both of the top 2 comorbidity diseases! There is not a reason in the world that us "vulnerable old folks" can not voluntarily do our own quarantine/shelter as long as we want. To impose that prolonged protocol on the rest of the citizens is asinine!

[calibantwo]

The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.
You are correct about the reason for the lockdowns, but not the result. None of the earliest states to reopen had met the government's requirements of a flattened curve. Look at the disastrous results in Georgia -- and they are pushing forward with lifting restrictions. President Trump does not want this excessive push to open everything at once with the resulting spike in Covid deaths. He does not want to be known as President Death! Let's have a little more patience -- please!

[Lil GTO]

Could not agree more. Just drove to TV from Houston TX and staying a month. I’m at the metro diner now enjoying a sit down meal in a place that is cleaner than the day it was built and only a few couples here so very spread out. Common down and get you some good food.


The goal of staying home, wearing masks and social distancing was to “flatten the curve”. It was never about eradicating the virus - it was about not overrunning hospital ICU units. We have achieved that goal. Those same experts who suggested flattening the curve, told us back then that it would save lives by not over taxing our healthcare facilities. It was not about preventing people from getting the virus, just about reducing the chances of everyone getting it at once. We have done that. That was the reason for the lockdown, but people have forgotten that. Mission accomplished, now it is time to move on.

[Lil GTO]

Absolutely correct!


Empty hospital beds....ICUs only at 30% of capacity, hospital ships and field hospitals never or minimally used, a country awash in masks and gloves....respirators at $ 16,000 a unit sitting in warehouses....government handouts like candy for things not even related to CV19, like AMTRAK and the Kennedy Arts Center....sounds like a good overblown crisis to me....

[Lil GTO]

Or better yet end it now. I’d rather die living than live in fear of death while cowering in shelter.

If you are waiting for the last person to die from Covid before it is "over", you might as well stay indoors with your mask on and wait for your own demise.

[kenoc7]

Empty hospital beds....ICUs only at 30% of capacity, hospital ships and field hospitals never or minimally used, a country awash in masks and gloves....respirators at $ 16,000 a unit sitting in warehouses....government handouts like candy for things not even related to CV19, like AMTRAK and the Kennedy Arts Center....sounds like a good overblown crisis to me....

80,000 deaths probably going to at least 135,000 by August is overblown?????????

[ficoguy]

Population of Sumter, Lake and Marion: 854,944
Cases to date: 698
Deaths: 33

There are normally 12 deaths A DAY from all causes in these 3 counties
Including traffic accidents, suicide, drug overdoses and natural causes

[JoMar]

The good news is those that want to get back to normal won't be making those decisions.

[Swoop]

You are correct about the reason for the lockdowns, but not the result. None of the earliest states to reopen had met the government's requirements of a flattened curve. Look at the disastrous results in Georgia -- and they are pushing forward with lifting restrictions. President Trump does not want this excessive push to open everything at once with the resulting spike in Covid deaths. He does not want to be known as President Death! Let's have a little more patience -- please!
Every state has met the requirement for flattening the curve. Not one state has run out of hospital ICU beds, not one state has run out of ventilators. We have met the criteria. If you look at the model for flattening the curve, the idea that this whole lockdown was based on, you’ll see that the number of cases of the virus doesn’t change - they are just spread out over a longer period of time.

[coffeebean]

Sure they are working on a vaccine, but they have been working on one for the SARS strain of the Covid virus for 18 years. How long are you prepared to be shut down for?

We never hear about SARS anymore here in the US. Is it really a threat anymore? How many deaths are there annually for this virus? Maybe the SARS vaccine has been put on the back burner.

[thelegges]

80,000 deaths probably going to at least 135,000 by August is overblown?????????

Keyword here is probably. Then again flu season is around the corner, so best to stay inside. Playing golf since day one, out in the normal world one week today, tested, no issues

[Wallyworld]

Dr Birx just said the CDC cannot be trusted. They are over inflating the deaths by 25%. When will everyone just admit this is totally political, making sure Trump doesn’t get re-elected.

[coffeebean]

Could not agree more. Just drove to TV from Houston TX and staying a month. I’m at the metro diner now enjoying a sit down meal in a place that is cleaner than the day it was built and only a few couples here so very spread out. Common down and get you some good food.

Were the servers and the cooks wearing masks? They have an open kitchen so it is easy to see the food preparers.

[graciegirl]

Dr Birx just said the CDC cannot be trusted. They are over inflating the deaths by 25%. When will everyone just admit this is totally political, making sure Trump doesn’t get re-elected.

Please link us to that. I missed Dr. Birx saying the CDC cannot be trusted. Can you show us that original statement?

[EdFNJ]

Sorry, I just can't watch the Coronavirus Negative News, aka CNN. So please elucidate on exactly who is giving you the "real news" ? That was a rhetorical question, no need to answer. ;)

[EdFNJ]

Please link us to that. I missed Dr. Birx saying the CDC cannot be trusted. Can you show us that original statement? Birx reportedly said '''there is nothing from the CDC that I can trust''' - Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/deborah-birx-cdc-comments-coronavirus-task-force-meeting-2020-5)

[Aloha1]

Birx reportedly said '''there is nothing from the CDC that I can trust''' - Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/deborah-birx-cdc-comments-coronavirus-task-force-meeting-2020-5)

Very interesting since WAPO is certainly not a fan of the Government. Her statement also maps with several reports by physicians (including my daughter in law) that they are being told to list any death that may have had a "symptom" common to the Wuhan virus as "virus related". Pneumonia? Wuhan Virus. Heart Attack? Wuhan Virus.

[Topspinmo]

The good news is those that want to get back to normal won't be making those decisions.

as long as it don't affect golf right!

[Topspinmo]

We have a different goal here in the villages.

It’s keep your name off of a park bench.

Stop trying to sell this “goal achieved” thing and suggest we should be “moving on”. We are not at a green light.

look at the Revised death toll estimates

The president just up’d his death toll estimates 2x to 120k. The CDC along with some wiz MIT Modeler think 261k by august.

the Governor Recently said 85% of the deaths in this state were over 65. The average age in TV is around 72.

Let individuals here make their own decisions, you shouldn’t be encouraging anything.

As long as it don't affect golf right!

[Aloha1]

I am in the vulnerable age group. I'm in good health although technically I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol. I say technically because the miracles of modern medical science have provided me with medications that control both down to the accepted norm. Having said this, I FIRMLY agree it's time to reopen. This belief in no way is a knock on those who insist they need to stay isolated. Many of us do and should.

But consider this: The vast majority of TV'ers rely on Social Security, pensions, and savings to fund their retirement. The longer the economy remains shut down, the more danger grows that all three of these sources are threatened.

Take SSA, where the money to fund it comes from payroll deductions on those currently working. Latest stat this week is close to 30 million of those workers are not working and therefore not paying the SSA tax. What happens to you if the Government says, "sorry, no check this month"?

Pensions from a company rely on that company making contributions to it's retirement fund. If the company is shut down, where does the money come from to make that pensions payment?

Finally, your savings. Interest rates are less than 1% for most fixed investments. The stock market will continue to be a roller coaster ride for quite a while. No guarantee what you have today will be what you have tomorrow.

So I say, open up. Do it smart but open up. This virus will be around for a long time just like the flu. We cannot wait for the pipe dream of no more cases and no more deaths before we open up. those of us with underlying conditions are smart enough to take the right precautions such as masks, gloves, sanitizer, etc, when going out. We know to avoid large crowds and maintain social distancing even if others don't. The only way to control the spread of this virus at present is by increasing herd immunity. The fewer targets, the less virus. This does not mean everybody stay home because that only delays the inevitable spread that would result.

The vast majority of those who have been infected had no to mild symptoms. They need to get back to work for their sake and ours.

[Alto2548]

Recheck what data? The concept of flattening the curve is to keep the level cases below the point where ICU units aren’t overloaded. They aren’t - anywhere in the country. Even NY which was the hardest hit state by far, has plenty of capacity. They have sent the hospital ship Comfort away because it’s not needed.

Too many people have been brain-washed by the media hype and trying to inform them otherwise is a waste of time.

[graciegirl]

I am in the vulnerable age group. I'm in good health although technically I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol. I say technically because the miracles of modern medical science have provided me with medications that control both down to the accepted norm. Having said this, I FIRMLY agree it's time to reopen. This belief in no way is a knock on those who insist they need to stay isolated. Many of us do and should.

But consider this: The vast majority of TV'ers rely on Social Security, pensions, and savings to fund their retirement. The longer the economy remains shut down, the more danger grows that all three of these sources are threatened.

Take SSA, where the money to fund it comes from payroll deductions on those currently working. Latest stat this week is close to 30 million of those workers are not working and therefore not paying the SSA tax. What happens to you if the Government says, "sorry, no check this month"?

Pensions from a company rely on that company making contributions to it's retirement fund. If the company is shut down, where does the money come from to make that pensions payment?

Finally, your savings. Interest rates are less than 1% for most fixed investments. The stock market will continue to be a roller coaster ride for quite a while. No guarantee what you have today will be what you have tomorrow.

So I say, open up. Do it smart but open up. This virus will be around for a long time just like the flu. We cannot wait for the pipe dream of no more cases and no more deaths before we open up. those of us with underlying conditions are smart enough to take the right precautions such as masks, gloves, sanitizer, etc, when going out. We know to avoid large crowds and maintain social distancing even if others don't. The only way to control the spread of this virus at present is by increasing herd immunity. The fewer targets, the less virus. This does not mean everybody stay home because that only delays the inevitable spread that would result.

The vast majority of those who have been infected had no to mild symptoms. They need to get back to work for their sake and ours.

I think most of us older folks are agreeing that open or closed, we are staying quarantined unless and until there is a remedy or a vaccine. I think anyone over 70 who doesn't do everything to stay away from any possible contacts is playing with death.

[tvbound]

Too many people have been brain-washed by the media hype and trying to inform them otherwise is a waste of time.

Too many people have been brain-washed by wacko fringe and conspiracy groups and trying to educate them with actual facts or science - is a waste of time.

[JoMar]

I am in the vulnerable age group. I'm in good health although technically I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol. I say technically because the miracles of modern medical science have provided me with medications that control both down to the accepted norm. Having said this, I FIRMLY agree it's time to reopen. This belief in no way is a knock on those who insist they need to stay isolated. Many of us do and should.

But consider this: The vast majority of TV'ers rely on Social Security, pensions, and savings to fund their retirement. The longer the economy remains shut down, the more danger grows that all three of these sources are threatened.

Take SSA, where the money to fund it comes from payroll deductions on those currently working. Latest stat this week is close to 30 million of those workers are not working and therefore not paying the SSA tax. What happens to you if the Government says, "sorry, no check this month"?

Pensions from a company rely on that company making contributions to it's retirement fund. If the company is shut down, where does the money come from to make that pensions payment?

Finally, your savings. Interest rates are less than 1% for most fixed investments. The stock market will continue to be a roller coaster ride for quite a while. No guarantee what you have today will be what you have tomorrow.

So I say, open up. Do it smart but open up. This virus will be around for a long time just like the flu. We cannot wait for the pipe dream of no more cases and no more deaths before we open up. those of us with underlying conditions are smart enough to take the right precautions such as masks, gloves, sanitizer, etc, when going out. We know to avoid large crowds and maintain social distancing even if others don't. The only way to control the spread of this virus at present is by increasing herd immunity. The fewer targets, the less virus. This does not mean everybody stay home because that only delays the inevitable spread that would result.

The vast majority of those who have been infected had no to mild symptoms. They need to get back to work for their sake and ours.

Only issue is that everyone has an opinon on what is the smart way to open up. The good news is there are only a few people whose opinion matters, the bad news is not everyone will agree and will continue to provide subject fodder here.

[DON10E]

We never hear about SARS anymore here in the US. Is it really a threat anymore? How many deaths are there annually for this virus? Maybe the SARS vaccine has been put on the back burner.

SARS mutated into something not contagious. That’s why it just “went away”. That’s also why Covid 19 might, too. Might not, but there’s precedent.

[DON10E]

Only issue is that everyone has an opinon on what is the smart way to open up. The good news is there are only a few people whose opinion matters, the bad news is not everyone will agree and will continue to provide subject fodder here.

Never in human history have we ever quarantined the healthy. We have always quarantined the sick/vulnerable.

Until now.

[ALadysMom]

Just because the curve is flattening, and you will be able to get into a hospital for care, doesn't mean that you will be able to be cured. The problem with this disease is that in many cases it can't be cured and you only get into the hospital for them to try. Until there's a vaccine or cure this isn't over.

Really? How long did you stay locked inside your house after Pandemic H1N1 in 2008-2009? Not a single day? And last fall & winter during flu season? The 2019 flu vaccine was highly ineffective and that flu was also quite frequently lethal. I won’t even bring up the requisite behavioral changes you surely made in response to HIV/AIDS. We all take risks every day of our lives. This virus was believed to be a lot more lethal than it is so we should happily and thankfully adjust to the new reality.

[ALadysMom]

I think most of us older folks are agreeing that open or closed, we are staying quarantined unless and until there is a remedy or a vaccine. I think anyone over 70 who doesn't do everything to stay away from any possible contacts is playing with death.

I’m sorry the media has scared you into not being able to enjoy ‘the lifestyle.’

It’s a shame that there hasn’t been equal airtime given to the experts who hold opposing but equally compelling views on the ever-evolving analysis of the newest statistical data. So much has been learned in just a few weeks yet many remain steadfast in their lockdown mindset. What will you do if no cure and no vaccine ever comes? Other viruses like SARS and the common cold don’t have a cure nor a vaccine. My plan is to pray, wash, sanitize and go out wearing a mask. I don’t want to live the rest of my life as a shut-in.

[JoMar]

Never in human history have we ever quarantined the healthy. We have always quarantined the sick/vulnerable.

Until now.

We don't know who the healthy are....even your doctor can't tell you, all they can do is assess the risk......and that's probably a WAG.

[canyonblue]

Never in human history have we ever quarantined the healthy. We have always quarantined the sick/vulnerable.

Until now.

Well the Democrats did it to Japanese-Americans during WW2 so they do have precedent.

[Bay Kid]

We are going to need bigger homes.

[karostay]

United States cases
Updated May 13 at 10:26 AM local
Confirmed
1,400,741
+22,098
Deaths
83,082
+1,543
Recovered
237,256
+17,443

Keep Dreaming

[tvbound]

Well the Democrats did it to Japanese-Americans during WW2 so they do have precedent.

For the record.

What was the Republican response to FDR's Japanese internment camps? - Quora (https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-Republican-response-to-FDRs-Japanese-internment-camps)

With few exceptions, most political figures, Republican and Democrat, supported Japanese internment, especially politicians on the west coast. Two exceptions who were Republicans were:

[Aloha1]

United States cases
Updated May 13 at 10:26 AM local
Confirmed
1,400,741
+22,098
Deaths
83,082
+1,543
Recovered
237,256
+17,443

Keep Dreaming
Your point??
Don't you find it interesting that 1,440,741 cases minus 83,082 deaths is 1,357,659 yet only 237,256 have recovered since January?? Where did the other 1,120, 403 go? Mars?

The data misrepresents reality. First, CDC suspects that there have been been tens of thousands who never got a test who may have had the virus. It could have also been the flu but we'll never know. Second, I find it very hard to believe that over 1 million are still sick after several months. That means the recovered number is probably 5 times higher. In simple math terms 94% of the reported cases have had the virus and recovered.

[davem4616]

no one should be doing any victory laps about covid-19 yet...(and I'm not suggesting that the OP is doing or promoting that)

we have taxed our medical community to the limit...there are jobs and businesses that will not come back...too many people have died along because their families were not allowed to be at their side

we're not out of the woods on this by a long shot

the ramifications from this pandemic will absolutely define this decade and define who we are as a country

our individual behavior will define who we truly are and what we are made of....think about the legacy that you want to leave behind for your kids, your grandkids and your friends

These are desperate times...desperate times require disciplined action and disciplined behavior to successfully emerge and carry on. Most of us have never been tested like we've been tested lately due to covid-19 and will continue to be tested by this pandemic

It will take courage, resourcefulness, common sense, faith and integrity over the long haul to get through this together.

BTW - Integrity is the most important...because if you don't have integrity, nothing else matters

so let's pull together like the generations before us did during WWII

just saying

[thelegges]

So far all of my old colleagues still have not been called back to work in thE OR. 79% still waiting for hospitals to reopen, and bring staff in for more than 3 hours. Some have been told may not happen until late fall. Lots of talent just sitting with no benefits or unemployment