Dr. Birx doesn’t trust CDC numbers, thinks numbers are inflated by 25%

[GoodLife]

“There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust,” Birx reportedly said, according to a report in the Washington Post.

Dr Birx already publicly admitted last month that CDC is telling states to code any death of an individual who tests positive for COVID-19 as a coronavirus death, even if it is not proven that the death was caused by COVID-19

Here's an example:

Colorado man dies from an astounding 0.55% blood alcohol level, State lists him as covid 19 death.

CO man dies from astounding 0.55 blood alcohol level, coronavirus listed as cause of death | Disrn (https://disrn.com/news/co-man-dies-from-astounding-055-blood-alcohol-level-coronavirus-listed-as-cause-of-death)

[TSO/ISPF]

CDC is obviously broken, as are many federal agencies. I wonder what has happened or is it government as usual. FUBAR.

[billethkid]

I personally would like to know more about the financial "benefits" that come with a death being declared virus caused.

[Bogie Shooter]

CDC is obviously broken, as are many federal agencies. I wonder what has happened or is it government as usual. FUBAR.

Somebody other than the scientist are running the agency...……...

[GoodLife]

Somebody other than the scientist are running the agency...……...

Better tell Dr Birx that, since she was arguing with Dr Redfield, the guy that runs CDC, about the inflated numbers. CDC instructed Doctors to code anyone with a positive covid 19 test as death from the virus (just like the .55 alcohol death in OP), and if they suspected covid 19 without a positive test, code it covid 19.

[Velvet]

The numbers would have to have been inflated by 70% or so to keep the US from being the highest death cases in the world. Why stop at only 25%?
(The guy drinking might have been drinking due to anxiety over Covid, which would make it a Covid related death, in my opinion.)

[GoodLife]

The numbers would have to have been inflated by 70% or so to keep the US from being the highest death cases in the world. Why stop at only 25%?
(The guy drinking might have been drinking due to anxiety over Covid, which would make it a Covid related death, in my opinion.)

So if I die from reading loony covid posts that would count too?

[Velvet]

Yep, and the guy shot for leaving his house without a mask too should be counted as Covid related. Otherwise, he’d still be alive. ;)

And remember what we thought when China “changed their method” of counting deaths (because they were too high)?

[mamamia54]

I personally would like to know more about the financial "benefits" that come with a death being declared virus caused.


I was told hospitals that list covid as cause of death receive $13,000 from Medicare for each death. Good reason to just say covid for everyone even if they had a heart attack. The only exception to the rule is nursing homes who will say everything else but covid. Afraid we will know how many are really dying in them. So when they die of covid the death certificate attributes it to a heart attack. This is the case with my friends mom.

[Velvet]

I was told hospitals that list covid as cause of death receive $13,000 from Medicare for each death. Good reason to just say covid for everyone even if they had a heart attack. The only exception to the rule is nursing homes who will say everything else but covid. Afraid we will know how many are really dying in them. So when they die of covid the death certificate attributes it to a heart attack. This is the case with my friends mom.

That sounds like the hospitals are rewarded for each Covid patient who dies, and not for the ones they save? That’s a strange way to fund hospitals. Where do they do that?

[billethkid]

Just google it....there are many accounts like this one

Fact check: Medicare pays hospitals more money for COVID-19 patients (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/)

[Lindsyburnsy]

A Fox News Conspiracy—Are Coronavirus Death Numbers Inflated?—Attacked By Fauci, Birx (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/04/09/a-fox-news-conspiracy-are-coronavirus-death-numbers-inflated-attacked-by-fauci-birx/#6b4102f316af)

[argos5usa]

So if I die from reading loony covid posts that would count too?

Best line of the day...Thank you.:bigbow:

[DecaturFargo]

Unfortunately, she has become a "yes" person. Not much respect for her.

[youngerday]

Yep. they make money from the government when they say Covid

[justjim]

Another conspiracy theory. There also could be cases that were not reported before they started reporting cases. I trust our scientists before I trust most politicians whose main goal is to be re-elected.

[Stinger2]

The key words for accurately reporting vivid deaths are WITH and FROM.
Is the death a result of someone dying from or with virus?
A person who has a heart attack and succumbs because of heart failure but was diagnosed as having the virus will be listed as a virus death. Why?
The hospital would receive $13K from the heart attack death but would receive $39K from a virus death
Some states are now distinguishing between the cause of death to get a more accurate count for the reason for death.

[ffresh]

CDC is obviously broken, as are many federal agencies. I wonder what has happened or is it government as usual. FUBAR.

Most all of these federal agencies are staffed with career bureaucrats who would be hard pressed to string eight words together to create a cogent sentence. And they're supervised by individuals spending taxpayer money, not their own funds. These allotted funds must be spent before the calendar year draws to a close and, the more "clients" they accrue, the larger the domain that they rule over and the larger the salary. When I was young, federal workers were not allowed to form a union, the pay was less than stellar and the pensions were nothing to brag about. Now, government employees are compensated very well, often better than those in private industry. The majority of private-industry workers have lost their pensions and have been left with self-funded 401k retirement plans, while pensions for retired government workers are the largest financial obligations of government entities at all levels - courtesy of the taxpayers, who often have no pension of their own. And, to top it off, many of these staffers in the myriad federal, state and local governments harbor intense political biases, manifested in behaviors which favor political parties rather than American citizens. With all of these dynamics at play, what could possibly go wrong? :icon_wink:

Fred

[Rosie1950]

Maybe the guy with high blood alcohol levels who was positive was following suggestions and trying to internally sanitize. Contrary to popular opinion there are stupid people out there.

[GoodLife]

To begin with Debra is not as reliable in health information, she is more a mouthpiece for Drumpf. What she says is not always based in factual information so her comments on the CDC should be taken with a grain of salt. That one case that the conservative sites have run with in CO is in question. It was not listed as the cause of death on the death certificate but was counted by the state. One out of 90,000 is pretty insignificant (.001%). People do not die directly from the virus, they die from blood clots, heart failure, respiratory failure, organ shut down, etc. all caused by the virus. There will be no death certificates that say just the virus because the damage done by it is what causes the deaths.

Funny, I don't recall Dr Birx being called unreliable or a mouthpiece when Obama appointed her Global Ambassador for Aids where she directed a 7 billion dollar budget.

[Aloha1]

Also funny is the fact many here have forgotten Dr. Fauci's words of praise when Dr. Birx joined HIS team.

[GoodLife]

Another conspiracy theory. There also could be cases that were not reported before they started reporting cases. I trust our scientists before I trust most politicians whose main goal is to be re-elected.

Dr Birx is a politician? When did that happen?

[GoodLife]

Maybe the guy with high blood alcohol levels who was positive was following suggestions and trying to internally sanitize. Contrary to popular opinion there are stupid people out there.

You're right, there has never been a case of alcohol poisoning in the history of the world before this.

[Rosie1950]

Dr Birx is a politician? When did that happen?

When the words came flying out of her mouth that she was reworking the CDC guidelines for reopening. Now they are all just suggestions.
DeSantis said he wanted to let visitors into long term care facilities. I see that he DID NOT. was this HIS choice or could he NOT overturn the Medicare guidelines?

[sipops]

“There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust,” Birx reportedly said, according to a report in the Washington Post.

Dr Birx already publicly admitted last month that CDC is telling states to code any death of an individual who tests positive for COVID-19 as a coronavirus death, even if it is not proven that the death was caused by COVID-19

Here's an example:

Colorado man dies from an astounding 0.55% blood alcohol level, State lists him as covid 19 death.

CO man dies from astounding 0.55 blood alcohol level, coronavirus listed as cause of death | Disrn (https://disrn.com/news/co-man-dies-from-astounding-055-blood-alcohol-level-coronavirus-listed-as-cause-of-death)

Dr. Blix also sheepishly said if a person dies in a car accident and has heart problems that is covid related. She said this early on thus I don't believe too much of these numbers or what she has to offer.

[Holpat39]

She is not a mouthpiece for Trump. My family is from Chicago and it is a known fact that the statistics are inflated. Die from previous lung disease and in hospice then contract Covid19 and death is listed as Covid19 even though the patient was in last stages of dying. Same with a cancer patient. Contract Covid19 in your last stages and you are listed as a Covid19 death. Check on the internet and you can see the complete interview with the head of the Health Agency in Chicago.

[DonnaNi4os]

According to Snopes there is mixed truth in a $13,000 Medicare payment for COVID related hospitalizations. It appears that a FOX News interview instigated this rumor. If you are interested you can google the report for yourself but here is their conclusion:

“ We therefore rate this claim “Mixture.” While it seems plausible that Medicare disbursements to hospitals treating COVID-19 patients could be in the range given by Jensen in the Fox News interview (if those patients are covered by Medicare), we found no evidence to support Jensen’s assertion that “Medicare has determined” that hospitals will be paid $13,000 for patients with COVID-19 diagnoses or $39,000 for COVID-19 patients place on ventilators.”

[jklfairwin]

Yes, far better to trust numbers from uniformed politicians.

[GoodLife]

Yes, far better to trust numbers from uniformed politicians.

Yep, I will only trust politicians who wear uniforms.

[cheweycat]

Dr. Redfield should be removed. He had no management experience prior to assuming his position. It shows!

[CS1987]

I think people that die "with covid19" are being added in with people that die "from" covid19

[GoodLife]

I think people that die "with covid19" are being added in with people that die "from" covid19

This is exactly what Dr Birx was talking about. The CDC instructed Doctors to code all patients who die that have tested positive for covid 19 as death from covid. Even if patient not tested, if they suspect covid 19 then its coded as covid 19 death.

You'd think people would be happy to hear that deaths from covid 19 have been inflated, but no, for some reason they want that death total high and will attack anyone who says different, including the Doctor who runs the Task Force.

[Velvet]

Assuming that the deaths are inflated, then what? Are the positive cases, the 1.5 million in the US inflated too?

I believe that private hospitals may be looking after their bottom line. Still it’s a strange way to fund hospitals, in my opinion.

[Joe C.]

The more involved the CDC becomes in the pandemic, the more it will justify a substantial budget increase. Simple rule...……"Follow the money".

[GoodLife]

Colorado just lowered their state covid 19 death total by 24%

It's a conspiracy. Dr Birx was off by 1%

[Velvet]

Does that mean the hospitals have to give back 24% of the funds they received?

[OhioBuckeye]

I understand that some people don’t believe Dr. Birx what she says about the CDC. But do I, I don’t know because I don’t work in this field. I’m sure she’s just giving her opinion. So maybe she’s right & maybe she’s not. So we have a right to voice our opinion but just make it an opinion, not a fact. Personally I guess I have to believe what the professionals say, even what the Dem. or Rep. say. This comment is just my opinion.

[GoodLife]

Assuming that the deaths are inflated, then what? Are the positive cases, the 1.5 million in the US inflated too?

I believe that private hospitals may be looking after their bottom line. Still it’s a strange way to fund hospitals, in my opinion.

When we do enough antibody tests that show a lot more people had covid 19 and did not die the death rate will be less than 1%, possibly not much worse than the flu.

[Velvet]

When we do enough antibody tests that show a lot more people had covid 19 and did not die the death rate will be less than 1%, possibly not much worse than the flu.

May your thoughts be correct!

[roscoguy]

Dr Birx already publicly admitted last month that CDC is telling states to code any death of an individual who tests positive for COVID-19 as a coronavirus death, even if it is not proven that the death was caused by COVID-19

Can you post a source to confirm this directive from the CDC? I couldn't find any such thing, other than a guidance that says, in part "COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is
assumed to have caused or contributed to death." (Emphasis theirs) This is taken from a PDF of the CDC guidance, which I don't know how to link to...

Here's an example:

Colorado man dies from an astounding 0.55% blood alcohol level, State lists him as covid 19 death.

CO man dies from astounding 0.55 blood alcohol level, coronavirus listed as cause of death | Disrn (https://disrn.com/news/co-man-dies-from-astounding-055-blood-alcohol-level-coronavirus-listed-as-cause-of-death)

Well, OK. Let's take that one off, for sure. What else?

[roscoguy]

I was told hospitals that list covid as cause of death receive $13,000 from Medicare for each death. Good reason to just say covid for everyone even if they had a heart attack.

It isn't for per death, that is the approximate Medicare payment for hospitalization for COVID patients. "There isn’t a Medicare diagnostic code specifically for COVID-19. Using payment rates for similar respiratory conditions, Kaiser estimated the average Medicare payment at $13,297 for a less severe hospitalization and $40,218 for hospitalization in which a patient is treated with a ventilator for at least 96 hours."
The "Kaiser" above is the Kaiser Family Foundation. PolitiFact: On hospitals and the possible financial incentive of COVID-19 patients (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/politifact-on-hospitals-and-the-possible-financial-incentive-of-covid-19-patients/ar-BB1328Kt)

[roscoguy]

The hospital would receive $13K from the heart attack death but would receive $39K from a virus death

No, no, no. Just plain wrong. :ohdear:

[roscoguy]

When we do enough antibody tests that show a lot more people had covid 19 and did not die the death rate will be less than 1%, possibly not much worse than the flu.

Let's not forget that the CDC also estimates influenza deaths; it's a guaranteed certainty that not all of those are actually tested either. And many likely had contributing, underlying conditions as well.

[tvbound]

Besides Covid testing, I think Dr. Birx also needs an x-ray.


I think she's missing her spine.

[Velvet]

Naw, she just knows what it costs to be in the limelight.

[ALadysMom]

Another conspiracy theory. There also could be cases that were not reported before they started reporting cases. I trust our scientists before I trust most politicians whose main goal is to be re-elected.

And earlier deaths are now being “reclassified” as COVID deaths:

Published May 7, 2020

Cook County to Review Deaths Dating Back to November for Cases of Coronavirus – NBC Chicago

Cook County to Review Deaths Dating Back to November for Cases of Coronavirus – NBC Chicago (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/cook-county-to-review-deaths-dating-back-to-november-for-cases-of-coronavirus/2268198/%3famp)

Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure

[ALadysMom]

Just google it....there are many accounts like this one

Fact check: Medicare pays hospitals more money for COVID-19 patients (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/)

The second wave of federal CARES Act funding provides escalated payments to providers in harder-hit areas

So every reclassified death or newly-reported COVID death will result in higher CARES funding for the State and it’s healthcare providers.

Think about that: even if the person died at home after having no healthcare costs expended to care for them, the State and it’s providers get more money if the death is reported as COVID. A new profit center!

[Velvet]

To me what counts as Covid deaths are all those who died during the time of the virus, who would not have died otherwise. This includes people so scared of the virus who committed suicide like drinking fish tank cleaner fluid. That is the true extent of the damage from the virus. Just like the economic cost of Covid. The virus did not rob our bank accounts, but when people couldn’t go to work then it had the same effect.

I understand that antibodies indicate you had the virus. But if you died from fear you’re just as dead as if your lungs had collapsed. Dead is dead.

[Joelack99]

There is no question that the numbers are inaccurate. However there are forces “pulling” the numbers in both directions. For example, a person dies of pneumonia and is listed this way unless they have a positive COVID test. If never tested, you never know. The US’s testing is among the lowest in the world. On the other side are some of the situations described in these posts.

Bottom line: the only way we will actually know the numbers of COVID-causes deaths will be to forensically compare the number of dead to the statistically expected numbers. So far that number is larger than the reported numbers, I.e., the number killed by the virus is larger than the reported number by up to 20-50%. (22% in NY, the largest locality of deaths in the world according to the CDC.)

[bpascani]

I've heard it's an extra $13,000.00 per patient

[GoodLife]

There is no question that the numbers are inaccurate. However there are forces “pulling” the numbers in both directions. For example, a person dies of pneumonia and is listed this way unless they have a positive COVID test. If never tested, you never know. The US’s testing is among the lowest in the world. On the other side are some of the situations described in these posts.



Pretty sure you know less about this than Dr Birx. The guidelines for coding deaths allow Doctors to code the pneumonia death as a covid 19 death (without a positive test) if they "suspect" death due to covid 19.

Also, USA testing is not among the lowest in the world, currently we have tested 33,500 per million citizens, the highest are at 60,000, lowest at 1200 per million.

• COVID-19 testing rate by country | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/)

[Lindsyburnsy]

"told" = "rumor"

[sipops]

“There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust,” Birx reportedly said, according to a report in the Washington Post.

Dr Birx already publicly admitted last month that CDC is telling states to code any death of an individual who tests positive for COVID-19 as a coronavirus death, even if it is not proven that the death was caused by COVID-19

Here's an example:

Colorado man dies from an astounding 0.55% blood alcohol level, State lists him as covid 19 death.

CO man dies from astounding 0.55 blood alcohol level, coronavirus listed as cause of death | Disrn (https://disrn.com/news/co-man-dies-from-astounding-055-blood-alcohol-level-coronavirus-listed-as-cause-of-death)

Dr. Blix also sheepishly said if a person dies in a car accident and has heart problems that is covid related. She said this early on thus I don't believe too much of these numbers or what she has to offer.

[sipops]

That sounds like the hospitals are rewarded for each Covid patient who dies, and not for the ones they save? That’s a strange way to fund hospitals. Where do they do that?
They also get close to $42,000.00 for each person on a vent. Follow the money

[roscoguy]

And earlier deaths are now being “reclassified” as COVID deaths:

Published May 7, 2020

Cook County to Review Deaths Dating Back to November for Cases of Coronavirus – NBC Chicago

Cook County to Review Deaths Dating Back to November for Cases of Coronavirus – NBC Chicago (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/cook-county-to-review-deaths-dating-back-to-november-for-cases-of-coronavirus/2268198/%3famp)

Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure

Did you actually even read the article you posted the link to??? Even in the title it says that the county will "Review Deaths Dating Back to November". More quotes from the story:

"The Cook County Medical Examiner's office is conducting a review of deaths dating back to November of last year to see if any previously recorded deaths may have been related to the coronavirus before health officials publicly identified widespread community transmission.

The review will include a look back at cases of people who died in their homes or were found on the street, or other instances in which the person's death fell under the jurisdiction of the county, Cook County spokeswoman Natalia Derevyanny said Thursday. It will not include people who died in hospitals, she said, because doctors sign the death certificates of patients who die while hospitalized and the county is not notified."

"Some of the deaths that nobody was even talking about, they didn't have a name for this thing," he said. "People were dying and they may have been put on their death certificate they died of pneumonia or some other respiratory illness."

"So there's no doubt that we're going to need to go back through the records," Pritzker continued, adding, "That's going to probably happen in months hence, because we have so much to do now to focus on keeping people safe and alive now, but we're probably going to have to go back and see you know, how many of these probably, based upon all the symptoms, were COVID-19?"

[roscoguy]

Think about that: even if the person died at home after having no healthcare costs expended to care for them, the State and it’s providers get more money if the death is reported as COVID. A new profit center!

Another alternative fact. :ohdear: Here: "Hospitals are paid more for Medicare patients confirmed or presumed to have coronavirus" This directly from FOX News. Hospitals are paid more for Medicare patients confirmed or presumed to have coronavirus | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/hospitals-medicare-patients-cost-coronavirus)
It is HOSPITALS that are receiving the Medicare payments for PATIENTS diagnosed as having or likely having COVID-19.

[Bogie Shooter]

To me what counts as Covid deaths are all those who died during the time of the virus, who would not have died otherwise. This includes people so scared of the virus who committed suicide like drinking fish tank cleaner fluid. That is the true extent of the damage from the virus. Just like the economic cost of Covid. The virus did not rob our bank accounts, but when people couldn’t go to work then it had the same effect.

I understand that antibodies indicate you had the virus. But if you died from fear you’re just as dead as if your lungs had collapsed. Dead is dead.

This was not suicide. They thought they would get well....as some guy stated on TV.

[ALadysMom]

Did you actually even read the article you posted the link to??? Even in the title it says that the county will "Review Deaths Dating Back to November". More quotes from the story:

Another alternative fact. :ohdear: Here: This directly from FOX News. Hospitals are paid more for Medicare patients confirmed or presumed to have coronavirus | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/hospitals-medicare-patients-cost-coronavirus)
It is HOSPITALS that are receiving the Medicare payments for PATIENTS diagnosed as having or likely having COVID-19.

LOL You have heard of State hospitals, right? Did you consider the long history of political corruption associated with Illinois? Do you think they won’t manipulate historical death statistics if doing so lines their coffers with more $? Other states will undoubtedly want to increase their funding if they can too. Dr. Birx simply stated the obvious about the inaccuracy and unreliability of the CDC death statistics. IMO Dr. Birx has done a valiant job as she’s tried to temper every nuance so facts are calmly and confidently conveyed. Her professionalism, knowledge, courage and commitment have been a great service to everyone.

[ALadysMom]

This was not suicide. They thought they would get well....as some guy stated on TV.

Ok so it’s not a suicide but it should still be counted as a death caused by the Coronavirus. It was reportedly an accidental death of someone who died trying to treat what he believed was the virus. If he had not ingested chemicals he would have likely recovered so he would still be alive if not for the virus, right? This is an extremely rare case so it’s really a straw-man argument in the scheme of accurately reporting virus death statistics.

[Decadeofdave]

Check out last month's Imprimis from Hillsdale College. Dr.Arn explains in detail the CDC from inception to present day. Eye opener. They are way off their intended mission from 194O'S.

[DDVeteran]

It’s who’s controlling the Illuminati that I’m more concerned about. : )

[Bay Kid]

Who can you believe? Such a shame.

[roscoguy]

LOL You have heard of State hospitals, right? Did you consider the long history of political corruption associated with Illinois? Do you think they won’t manipulate historical death statistics if doing so lines their coffers with more $? Other states will undoubtedly want to increase their funding if they can too.

Nope, not familiar with State hospitals. I also don't have any inside information on corruption in Illinois. And lastly, I have no idea whether or not the Cook County coroner will manipulate any statistics. If you do, you should have posted links to something that at least alleges that, instead of the links to articles you did provide. Those ones didn't support your opinions at all & even tended to refute your claims.

And earlier deaths are now being “reclassified” as COVID deaths:

Cook County to Review Deaths Dating Back to November for Cases of Coronavirus – NBC Chicago (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/cook-county-to-review-deaths-dating-back-to-november-for-cases-of-coronavirus/2268198/%3famp)

Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure

Think about that: even if the person died at home after having no healthcare costs expended to care for them, the State and it’s providers get more money if the death is reported as COVID. A new profit center!

Still ends up as a sort-of-maybe and a nope.

[Two Bills]

Think, thought, said, heard all become fact to many once broadcast across the internet.
As for numbers, you can make them anything you wish, with the smallest amount of manipulation.
Confusion and rumors hide many sins!

[Gerald]

It seems that Everyone knows everything, (but people have died in large numbers). That is a fact. Just remember you can only die once.
This is not a war, it is not political , just ask your own doctor what you personally need to do.
Then do what is correct to do for you.

[BigRedDog]

If you fact check these statements you learn that they're not true and that Dr Birx has stated that the number of covid deaths is under reported.