Where New Yorkers moved to escape the coronavirus

[GoodLife]

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84159

Travel from New York City seeded wave of US outbreaks

New York City’s coronavirus outbreak grew so large by early March that the city became the primary source of new infections in the United States, new research reveals, as thousands of infected people traveled from the city and seeded outbreaks around the country.

"We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country" said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

Travel from New York City seeded wave of U.S. outbreaks | The Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/travel-from-new-york-city-seeded-wave-of-u-s-outbreaks/)

Would have been a good move to quarantine NYC

[Velvet]

Hmmm.

[Tom53]

What an ignorant and uninformed post title. Everyone with half a brain knows that NYC is a major gateway for international travel. This has nothing to do with New Yorkers spreading the disease throughout the country!:ohdear:

[GoodLife]

What an ignorant and uninformed post title. Everyone with half a brain knows that NYC is a major gateway for international travel. This has nothing to do with New Yorkers spreading the disease throughout the country!:ohdear:

The post title is exactly the title of an article in the New York Times, so they must be ignorant and uninformed. :ohdear: The second part of my OP was the title of another article in the New York Times. Travel from New York seeded wave of US outbreaks.

See the 2nd graph I posted? That's from the New York Times also, taken from a scientific study that traced the genetic mutations of the virus all over the country and found most of it had come from New York City. The virus came to New York mostly from Europe, it came to Europe from China. These facts do not refute the fact the a majority of outbreaks across the US were seeded from New York travelers. They have genetic proof.

PS I did not link the New York Times articles because this site prohibits using links to subscription only articles. But lots of other papers reported the same news.

[Tom53]

The post title is exactly the title of an article in the New York Times, so they must be ignorant and uninformed. :ohdear: The second part of my OP was the title of another article in the New York Times. Travel from New York seeded wave of US outbreaks.

See the 2nd graph I posted? That's from the New York Times also, taken from a scientific study that traced the genetic mutations of the virus all over the country and found most of it had come from New York City. The virus came to New York mostly from Europe, it came to Europe from China. These facts do not refute the fact the a majority of outbreaks across the US were seeded from New York travelers. They have genetic proof.

PS I did not link the New York Times articles because this site prohibits using links to subscription only articles. But lots of other papers reported the same news.

So the fact that you use and defend their title tells me you agree with it, it which case, I stand by my post.

[Velvet]

Just how much more do New Yorkers need to suffer? I’ve been to NYC once 3 decades ago and never went back, but what they have been through just recently is the greatest hell on earth. To kick them now in any way is unconscionable, even if it is The New York Times (among my favorite newspapers).

[GoodLife]

So the fact that you use and defend their title tells me you agree with it, it which case, I stand by my post.

You probably know better than the New York Times about the city they publish in and probably the micro biologists and epidemiologists that mapped the spread of the virus. :ohdear:

[DDVeteran]

This post was meant to incite rather than inform.

[billethkid]

Why to some choose to call what is presented as kicking New Yorkers and the international aspect of the NYC inhabitants spreading the virus.

What was presented is the infected folks that just happen to be from or in or traveling through NYC that traveled to other parts of the country included some who were infected and passed it along.

I don't believe there was any intent to castigate New Yorkers.

[Velvet]

If we take it back far enough we are all related to an axe murderer. How is this useful information to the public?

[wisbad1]

So the fact that you use and defend their title tells me you agree with it, it which case, I stand by my post.
NewYorker?

[Tom53]

You probably know better than the New York Times about the city they publish in and probably the micro biologists and epidemiologists that mapped the spread of the virus. :ohdear:

First of all, I apologize, I misread the title regarding the escape part, and read it as blaming New Yorkers.

Second, I don't trust the New York Times as they have there own slant and agenda for reporting news. You can find an expert to spin data for any conclusion you are looking for, the internet is great for that.

That being said, did it spread out from New York (among a few other places), I would say yes, due to international travel, not residents as I thought the title was referring to.

[DDVeteran]

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[Tom53]

NewYorker?

Originally, yes, does it matter?

[Velvet]

No it doesn’t. I’m as far from being a New Yorker as you can imagine. But for the last 2 months I’ve watched their suffering every day for hours at a time. And of course our area and the rest of the world suffered too. When they could finally breathe I took a breath too.

This pandemic is a life defining event. Each of us went through it our own way. And I am so grateful, that these people from New York who I don’t know at all, and likely never will, are a little further from the extreme ravages of this disease. I think it is just called being a human.

[dewilson58]

Interesting graphics.
Not sure if the NYT is rightwing or leftwing..........but interesting info.


Is the CDC tracking that good to create this information??

[JoMar]

Florida is not the only State that has felt the NY effect, Sourheastern Pa and NJ are also in there. Personally, I don't know what the answer could be. Floridians bail when a hurricane is coming, why wouldn't New Yorkers bail when a killer virus is coming? Check in, get tested when you arrive and stay home for 14 days to be sure? Not sure how you track or enforce.

[CFrance]

Interesting graphics.
Not sure if the NYT is rightwing or leftwing..........but interesting info.


Is the CDC tracking that good to create this information??
They are less leftwing than WAPO but definitely not conservative. They do try to report the news without sneering...

[GoodLife]

Interesting graphics.
Not sure if the NYT is rightwing or leftwing..........but interesting info.


Is the CDC tracking that good to create this information??

They are definitely left wing, but their science reporting like these articles is usually pretty good.

The virus was tracked by micro biologists and epidemiologists by genetic mutations and studying travel based on flights from New York. The Times got their info from the scientists. They do this kind of stuff to see how pandemics spread and hopefully learn from it.

I think this is the first time I've ever been blamed for headlines and reporting done by the New York Times. :blahblahblah:

[GoodLife]

First of all, I apologize, I misread the title regarding the escape part, and read it as blaming New Yorkers.

Second, I don't trust the New York Times as they have there own slant and agenda for reporting news. You can find an expert to spin data for any conclusion you are looking for, the internet is great for that.

That being said, did it spread out from New York (among a few other places), I would say yes, due to international travel, not residents as I thought the title was referring to.

Actually not international travelers, it was NYC residents requesting mail forwarding.

This New York Times map could be misinterpreted merely as travel, but as the article notes, it’s based on the “56,000 mail-forwarding requests from New York City” received by the United States Post Office in March, “more than double the monthly average. In April, the number of requests went up to 81,000, twice the number from a year earlier. Sixty percent of those new requests were for destinations outside the city.

84161

[DDVeteran]

People are always ready to hate. They have lot of things in their lives that are going wrong and they are looking for someone to blame for their failure.

[tophcfa]

Where did New Yorkers move to escape the corona virus? That is the title of the thread. Should the title not read, where did New Yorkers flee to escape and spread the virus? I am not trying to vilify all NY's, I completely understand that the problem is NYC, not the wonderful rural place that is upstate NY. But NYC is a major problem, for several reasons. It is an international travel hub of the world, people coming and going from everywhere on the planet. Way too many people living in way too small of an area. People living indoors in very tight quarters all breathing the same recirculated air. Just not a good thing. Once wide spread international travel resumes, we are back in the same precarious situation.

[DDVeteran]

"I could see Mount Sodom beyond the distant shores, where the goat had been chosen as a sacrifice to redeem the wicked tribe."

[Bob3302]

This is my favorite thread. Love the defensive posture.

[Travelhunter]

you probably know better than the new york times about the city they publish in and probably the micro biologists and epidemiologists that mapped the spread of the virus. :ohdear:

lol

[Marty94]

There are many lessons that are being identified from this pandemic. One lesson is that international travel whether by air or ship presents challenges to isolate contagious viruses.

Prior to this virus, the travel industry faced similar scrutiny with regard to weapons used in the act of terrorism on planes. As a result, many safety measures were put in place, requiring passengers to be scanned, shoes to be removed, etc., and for the safety of everyone onboard, we conformed. Perhaps in the future before taking an international flight we will be asked for a cheek swab with quick results or perhaps there will be technology built into the body scanners we are already subject to at a TSA security checkpoint. Perhaps planes will be required to be disinfected between flights or seats will be made from antimicrobial fabric. These are lessons that can be identified and they provide us an opportunity to learn. Thus, understanding the path or gateway of this virus is important as it might lead to measures that can mitigate risk going forward.

[Aloha1]

This post was meant to incite rather than inform.

I completely disagree. It IS informative as it helps show how this pestilence spread across the U.S. It just happened to be New York City that was the focal point, Could have been San Francisco or Chicago. What's your point? It's not inciteful at all.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by DDVeteran
This post was meant to incite rather than inform.

I completely disagree. It IS informative as it helps show how this pestilence spread across the U.S. It just happened to be New York City that was the focal point, Could have been San Francisco or Chicago. What's your point? It's not inciteful at all.

Some people are just anti science.

[amexsbow]

We moved from the deep south to NC. We had little contact with people from NY or NJ prior to living in NC. You can't paint all people with the same brush. We know many conservative intelligent people from NY & NJ. We also know many biased intransigent people from these areas. You can't convince those who "feel"they know with facts.

[Debbraham]

An interesting thread. DeSantis has said that the Mayors in the panhandle and Florida in general can request, with their plans, for opening short term rentals...but he said if they include allowing people from New York to rent then he will definitely deny their request to open.

[allus70]

True
There was tremendous travel to and from NYC by virtue of NYC being the media, cultural & financial center of the country
Those from out of state traveling from home to NYC & back
And those NYers traveling out of state seeded the virus
In other states
Though the particular strain that swept through NY
Was seeded almost entirely by travelers from Europe
Perhaps it would have been wise to quarantine N early on
Perhaps it would have been wise for the country to be better prepared for a pandemic
In hindsight, it would have been a prudent for the Federal Government
To stop all travel from Europe much earlier
What we have learned and what we do from this point on is what matters

[finchhere]

This post was meant to incite rather than inform.
So it would seem....

[GoodLife]

We moved from the deep south to NC. We had little contact with people from NY or NJ prior to living in NC. You can't paint all people with the same brush. We know many conservative intelligent people from NY & NJ. We also know many biased intransigent people from these areas. You can't convince those who "feel"they know with facts.

These two articles in the NYT have nothing to do with politics. One article shows where New York City residents fled the city by analyzing USPS mail forwarding requests during March and April. Then they mapped it, apparently more New Yorkers came to Miami Dade area than anywhere else.

The other article reports on a scientific paper by micro biologists and epidemiologists who tracked the virus genetically and found that a large portion of coronavirus outbreaks in the USA were seeded by travelers from New York.

[rbrooks817]

Perhaps if the government had shut down travel from Europe along with the belated shut down of China our loss of life would be much lower. 40k people still came from China after they shut that down and over 400k came here before the shut down. You can't blame NYC for our do nothing federal govt.

[GoodLife]

Perhaps if the government had shut down travel from Europe along with the belated shut down of China our loss of life would be much lower. 40k people still came from China after they shut that down and over 400k came here before the shut down. You can't blame NYC for our do nothing federal govt.

Nonsense. Potus was criticized heavily for both the China and Europe travel bans. He also floated the idea for a NYC quarantine which was met with howls of protest and threats to sue. You can't rewrite history. Google is your friend.

[kendi]

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84159

Travel from New York City seeded wave of US outbreaks

New York City’s coronavirus outbreak grew so large by early March that the city became the primary source of new infections in the United States, new research reveals, as thousands of infected people traveled from the city and seeded outbreaks around the country.

"We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country" said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

Travel from New York City seeded wave of U.S. outbreaks | The Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/travel-from-new-york-city-seeded-wave-of-u-s-outbreaks/)

Would have been a good move to quarantine NYC

Interesting, assuming its accurate.

[Japrile]

The post title is exactly the title of an article in the New York Times, so they must be ignorant and uninformed. :ohdear: The second part of my OP was the title of another article in the New York Times. Travel from New York seeded wave of US outbreaks.

See the 2nd graph I posted? That's from the New York Times also, taken from a scientific study that traced the genetic mutations of the virus all over the country and found most of it had come from New York City. The virus came to New York mostly from Europe, it came to Europe from China. These facts do not refute the fact the a majority of outbreaks across the US were seeded from New York travelers. They have genetic proof.

PS I did not link the New York Times articles because this site prohibits using links to subscription only articles. But lots of other papers reported the same news.
Your first mistake was reading the NYT

[wamley]

Of course NY would be linked, but it's not necessarily NY ER's. A large portion of Americans that were abroad when this virus hit Europe flew into NY and connected with flights that go all over the Country. After all it is one of the Country's largest links to the outside world. Not to mention home to the United Nations . This is the ignorant part of your comment "Would have been a good move to quarantine NYC". Tourest and business people by the Tens of thousands come to NYC every month.

[tvbound]

Google is our friend, so try Googling the numbers and the timeline. The administration was asleep at the wheel and was too busy denying the data.

Dead on correct!

Let's put a myth and regurgitated lies to rest right now. After the ban of visitors from China, there were so many exceptions that an estimated 40,000 still came to the US after this supposed "ban" was in place.

Coronavirus: Direct flights brought 40k from China after Trump travel ban - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-trump-china-travel-ban-45a2da12-8063-4ad9-ba28-61cdeb1ce0b3.html)

[Jack58033]

My sister came into Kennedy airport from the Bahamas in middle of March. She was surprised there was no fever gun or any form of testing at the airport. She said there were many Europeans at the resort where she stayed. Would it not make sense to have a fever gun at our entrance ports?

[Calgary]

The NY Times is only useful if you have a puppy or a parrot.

[GoodLife]

Dead on correct!

Let's put a myth and regurgitated lies to rest right now. After the ban of visitors from China, there were so many exceptions that an estimated 40,000 still came to the US after this supposed "ban" was in place.

Coronavirus: Direct flights brought 40k from China after Trump travel ban - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-trump-china-travel-ban-45a2da12-8063-4ad9-ba28-61cdeb1ce0b3.html)

84168

The only problem with your theory is the genetic tracing of the virus by micro biologists and epidemiologists which shows the majority of US infections came from New York.

Northeast 92%
Southeast 87%
Midwest 78%
West 78%

The only region infected more by virus direct from China was the Northwest, Washington and Oregon, but they still got 43% of infections from New York.

The majority of coronavirus in New York came from Europe, not direct from China. From New York it spread all over the US

[tvbound]

84168

The only problem with your theory is the genetic tracing of the virus by micro biologists and epidemiologists which shows the majority of US infections came from New York.

Northeast 92%
Southeast 87%
Midwest 78%
West 78%

The only region infected more by virus direct from China was the Northwest, Washington and Oregon, but they still got 43% of infections from New York.

It's not a "theory," it's a fact.

40,000 people came from china even after the constantly touted - "life-saving China ban."

Trying to obfuscate this fact, by bringing up cases coming into New York (which did not have a ban) is simply a red herring - regarding what I posted.

[tvbound]

Perhaps if the government had shut down travel from Europe along with the belated shut down of China our loss of life would be much lower. 40k people still came from China after they shut that down and over 400k came here before the shut down. You can't blame NYC for our do nothing federal govt.

But what about the current salinity of the Pacific Ocean?

What does that have anything to do with your post, you might ask?

I'm just saving some time, until the next red herring is thrown out - to try and obfuscate your facts. :)

[Velvet]

Reminds me of Dante’s Gates of Hell: father eating his sons:

[GoodLife]

It's not a "theory," it's a fact.

40,000 people came from china even after the constantly touted - "life-saving China ban."

Trying to obfuscate this fact, by bringing up cases coming into New York (which did not have a ban) is simply a red herring - regarding what I posted.

OK fine, find and post a scientific study that states the majority of US infections were from travelers direct from China. :)

[GoodLife]

Hard to understand why people find this info so threatening.

A previous scientific study determined that NYC was mostly infected by coronavirus coming from Europe, not China direct. The Governor of New York immediately began calling it the European Virus in his press conferences. Now in a new study, reported in the Times, scientists determined that the majority of the USA was infected by coronavirus coming from New York City, not direct from China or Europe. It all started in China of course, but how pandemics spread is key to understanding how to fight them.

All the scientists working on vaccines study these papers in detail as genetic mutations are key to designing one that will work against all strains.

[Aloha1]

Hard to understand why people find this info so threatening.

A previous scientific study determined that NYC was mostly infected by coronavirus coming from Europe, not China direct. The Governor of New York immediately began calling it the European Virus in his press conferences. Now in a new study, reported in the Times, scientists determined that the majority of the USA was infected by coronavirus coming from New York City, not direct from China or Europe. It all started in China of course, but how pandemics spread is key to understanding how to fight them.

All the scientists working on vaccines study these papers in detail as genetic mutations are key to designing one that will work against all strains.

There are those who will deny anything if it doesn't fit their confirmation bias and narrative.

[dewilson58]

There are those who will deny anything if it doesn't fit their confirmation bias and narrative.


I just looked for the first time................Hawaii has come thru this very well.

[GoodLife]

There are those who will deny anything if it doesn't fit their confirmation bias and narrative.

They are probably still looking for a study saying direct flights from China caused most infections in the US. :icon_wink:

[Aces4]

Dead on correct!

Let's put a myth and regurgitated lies to rest right now. After the ban of visitors from China, there were so many exceptions that an estimated 40,000 still came to the US after this supposed "ban" was in place.

Coronavirus: Direct flights brought 40k from China after Trump travel ban - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-trump-china-travel-ban-45a2da12-8063-4ad9-ba28-61cdeb1ce0b3.html)

You would have banned American citizens from returning to their country? I am happy the decision was made to take care of our citizens.

[ALadysMom]

It's not a "theory," it's a fact.

40,000 people came from china even after the constantly touted - "life-saving China ban."

Trying to obfuscate this fact, by bringing up cases coming into New York (which did not have a ban) is simply a red herring - regarding what I posted.

So you favor building the wall and putting a halt to the 400,000 Chinese students studying here in order to save lives until a cure is found or the global population has either sufficient herd immunity or has received an effective vaccine?

A total travel ban to the US is nearly impossible to enact because some of those 40,000 who “came from China” may have been married to US citizens, or may have been students in the US, or may have even been US citizens themselves who were traveling back from China. For the US a travel ‘ban’ is really a restriction not total elimination. It would be unConstitutional for the President to ban US citizens from returning home, for instance.

So are you saying that the travel ban was not, in fact, life saving? If so, that is implausible. Or do you simply dislike giving credit for saving lives to President Trump? It is both logical and probable that lives were saved because fatal transmissions were stopped by President Trump disallowing the contagious hosts to travel here, whether you like it or not.

[Ramone]

Lot's of suffering

[ALadysMom]

Hard to understand why people find this info so threatening.

A previous scientific study determined that NYC was mostly infected by coronavirus coming from Europe, not China direct. The Governor of New York immediately began calling it the European Virus in his press conferences. Now in a new study, reported in the Times, scientists determined that the majority of the USA was infected by coronavirus coming from New York City, not direct from China or Europe. It all started in China of course, but how pandemics spread is key to understanding how to fight them.

All the scientists working on vaccines study these papers in detail as genetic mutations are key to designing one that will work against all strains.

Most of the reactions are emotional not based on logic. Blame, guilt, frustration, anger, envy and many other emotions often result in bias of proper analysis of scientific data, sometimes even by those who know better. That is one of the reasons why supercomputer modeling will help us understand the sources and spread of infection as well as to design effective treatments or vaccines. We are fortunate to have such advanced tools which can almost eliminate bias.

[tvbound]

So you favor building the wall and putting a halt to the 400,000 Chinese students studying here in order to save lives until a cure is found or the global population has either sufficient herd immunity or has received an effective vaccine?

A total travel ban to the US is nearly impossible to enact because some of those 40,000 who “came from China” may have been married to US citizens, or may have been students in the US, or may have even been US citizens themselves who were traveling back from China. For the US a travel ‘ban’ is really a restriction not total elimination. It would be unConstitutional for the President to ban US citizens from returning home, for instance.

So are you saying that the travel ban was not, in fact, life saving? If so, that is implausible. Or do you simply dislike giving credit for saving lives to President Trump? It is both logical and probable that lives were saved because fatal transmissions were stopped by President Trump disallowing the contagious hosts to travel here, whether you like it or not.

I just dislike liars.

Saying that "there was a ban on all travel to the US from China," was simply a lie.

To extrapolate from the accurate fact in which I stated that 40,000 people came to the US after the ban, to I favor "building a wall" - is also a lie.

[Bay Kid]

I remember someone wanting to ban travel from certain countries. He was called some kind of name.

[GoodLife]

I just dislike liars.

Saying that "there was a ban on all travel to the US from China," was simply a lie.

To extrapolate from the accurate fact in which I stated that 40,000 people came to the US after the ban, to I favor "building a wall" - is also a lie.

Your statements indicate you do not think the ban on travel from China worked. Actual data from genetic studies indicate it worked very well as most of the US was not infected by travel from China. New York City was infected mostly from Europe, and the rest of the USA was infected mostly from New York City.

Too bad POTUS did not ban travel from Europe earlier, perhaps he hesitated because the earlier China ban resulted in him being denounced as a racist and xenophobe.

[brianherlihy]

hi can you tell what it is Closed Thread Thread is Closed

[GoodLife]

hi can you tell what it is Closed Thread Thread is Closed

Closed threads usually just disappear. This one is still open.

[sktb888]

84158

84159

Travel from New York City seeded wave of US outbreaks

New York City’s coronavirus outbreak grew so large by early March that the city became the primary source of new infections in the United States, new research reveals, as thousands of infected people traveled from the city and seeded outbreaks around the country.

"We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country" said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

Travel from New York City seeded wave of U.S. outbreaks | The Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/travel-from-new-york-city-seeded-wave-of-u-s-outbreaks/)

Would have been a good move to quarantine NYC
..and what would you have done differently if you were a NY'er? Or advised a family member or loved one that lived in NY during this nightmare?

[Aloha1]

I just looked for the first time................Hawaii has come thru this very well.

At quite a price. Remember the original Hawai'i Five O? McGarret had the famous line, "Seal the rock, Danno". That's what Ige did. Suspended all interisland flights, locked all visitors in their hotels for 14 days, banned access to the beaches, etc. A very totalitarian move but it's a one Party state and he got away with it. Hawai'i is a VERY expensive place to live and there are tens of thousands now who have gone without work and therefore money. None of it eliminated the virus, it just delayed it until they open back up.

[Aloha1]

True
Though the particular strain that swept through NY
Was seeded almost entirely by travelers from Europe
Perhaps it would have been wise to quarantine N early on
Perhaps it would have been wise for the country to be better prepared for a pandemic
In hindsight, it would have been a prudent for the Federal Government
To stop all travel from Europe much earlier
What we have learned and what we do from this point on is what matters

"In hindsite". Correct, no one knew what was coming except the Chinese Communist Party. And they hid the truth.

[manaboutown]

At quite a price. remember the original Hawai'i Five O? McGarret had the famous line, "Seal the rock, Danno". That's what Ige did. Suspended all interisland flights, locked all visitors in their hotels for 14 days, banned access to the beaches, etc. A very totalitarian move but it's a one Party state and he got away with it. Hawai'i is a VERY expensive place to live and there are tens of thousands now who have gone without work and therefore money. None of it eliminated the virus, it just delayed it until they open back up.

People I know well returned from HI to live on the mainland in October. They keep emailing me links about how property taxes are going through the roof for nonresidents, especially those who own properties they rent out short term. They had lived in a $750K+/unit condo complex on the Big Island. HOA was about $1,300/mo. Only a few owners were permanent residents (who pay a fraction of the property tax nonresidents pay). Some owners will be losing their properties to foreclosure as they have lost their short term rental income which covered their expenses. It is a mess over there right now.

[Kayakguy]

Well said!