No guidelines for airline passenger safety?

[theruizs]

The link below is to an article a few days old, but after reading it again I don’t understand why airlines do not have any social distancing guidelines that they have to follow and are allowed to make up their own or have none. Yes, they are an essential business, but that implies that some passengers have no choice but to fly and should they then have guidelines to follow to keep those people safe? Right now there are more guidelines for grocery stores and restaurants than there are for airlines where the people are in a far more confined space and breathing recirculated air. Why is a restaurant restricted to 50% capacity but an airline can fill its planes to capacity if they so choose? Just another example of the inconsistent and wacky rules and guidelines (or lack thereof) we have going.

Airlines Drawing Criticism Over Inconsistent Social Distancing Guidelines As More Americans Start Traveling Again – CBS New York (https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/05/14/airlines-coronavirus-social-distancing-guidelines/)

[billethkid]

There is simply put no way to implement the number one recommended guideline of social distancing at 6+ feet apart.
And if not able to do that masks are recommended.....which airlines have been reluctant to make mandatory.
Strike three; hundreds of people stuffed into an enclosed area for hours at a time.

There is a certain minimum level of seating on a plane that determines financial viability of the flight/airline. They, like restaurants should be mandated at what percent they can safely operate (most likely at a loss).

That has not happened. The guidelines in general are at best hit and miss as determined by the politics and special interests needs. Very little consistency of application.

[Stu from NYC]

There is simply put no way to implement the number one recommended guideline of social distancing at 6+ feet apart.
And if not able to do that masks are recommended.....which airlines have been reluctant to make mandatory.
Strike three; hundreds of people stuffed into an enclosed area for hours at a time.

There is a certain minimum level of seating on a plane that determines financial viability of the flight/airline. They, like restaurants should be mandated at what percent they can safely operate (most likely at a loss).

That has not happened. The guidelines in general are at best hit and miss as determined by the politics and special interests needs. Very little consistency of application.

Until their is a known treatment and a vaccine no way are we going to fly. No way do we trust the airlines

[retiredguy123]

The restaurant rules are established by the states. But, a state cannot set rules for the airlines. That would need to be done by the Federal Government.

[billethkid]

Based on current federal guidelines for social distancing one would then not enter an airplane.

Physically impossible to maintain social distancing.

[Stu from NYC]

Based on current federal guidelines for social distancing one would then not enter an airplane.

Physically impossible to maintain social distancing.

sounds like us

[Altavia]

Based on current federal guidelines for social distancing one would then not enter an airplane.

Physically impossible to maintain social distancing.

Exactly, so masks need to be mandatory.

[retiredguy123]

Airlines are used to packing people in like sardines. I wonder what they'll do when sardines starting getting the Coronavirus.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Exactly, so masks need to be mandatory.

That's all well and good but how will it be enforced once the plane is in the air? A bunch of people decide to take their masks off and - and what? What'cha gonna DO about it?

Not a thing. They'll fly without their masks on.

Mandatory masks on airplanes *cannot* be enforced.

[Number 10 GI]

With all seats occupied I seriously doubt a mask will to any good. You are breathing the same recycled air for the entire flight and you are setting shoulder to shoulder. I read an article a few years ago that it requires a compressor to bring in fresh air into the cabin at cruising altitude and the more new air brought into the cabin requires more energy to run the compressor. More energy requires more fuel, more fuel means more money. If airlines were required to seat people 6' apart I don't think they will fly any planes because they will lose too much money. They would lose less money grounding their planes as there would be no need for air crews, plane maintenance, no airport fees and no fuel costs.

[retiredguy123]

I think the Federal Government should require the airlines to remove all center seats from their planes, and establish comfortable seat sizes permanently. That is the only way to provide social distancing and safety. They will just need to raise prices, which is fine with me. Cramming people into planes to increase profits has never been a good idea. That is why I haven't been on a plane in years.

[Stu from NYC]

Flying will not be safe under current conditions until there is a vaccine

[retiredguy123]

Flying will not be safe under current conditions until there is a vaccine
In terms of catching any infectious disease, when has it ever been safe? The problem is that, for the past 15 or 20 years, the airlines have been packing too many people on their planes.

[Two Bills]

Authorities are trialing a 20 minute neg/pos. test for virus in one of the counties in UK.
If it works as they think it will, could be the way airlines go to check passengers prior to boarding.
Just another queue!

[dcorts]

No mask could be enforced, if approved by the government, by putting the no masked person on the no fly list, which is for terrorist.

[Pedrocarrasco01@yahoo.com]

Authorities are trialing a 20 minute neg/pos. test for virus in one of the counties in UK.
If it works as they think it will, could be the way airlines go to check passengers prior to boarding.
Just another queue!
What they are doing is taking your temperature, if you have a fever you won’t be allowed to fly, but according to what we know, you might be infected without fever or show any signs of sickness and still be a carrier and potentially infect your fellow passengers, The other test is not that accurate at least yet, that appears to be what happened on the flights coming from China and Europe which our President stopped. There are no way to keep you safe under the current scenarios while flying, masks are inadequate since the virus can enter through them, the only safe is a respirator or a mask with a face shield like the hospitals use. Sorry, I would not be flying anytime soon!!!!!!!

[matandch]

Maybe not in the short term but in the long term they can be banned from flying on that airline. If you cause trouble at Disney World or shop lift at Walmart that’s your last trip there. It can be enforced through facial recognition technology.

[Girlcopper]

Based on current federal guidelines for social distancing one would then not enter an airplane.

Physically impossible to maintain social distancing.
Exactly. Unless there is a life and death emergency, why would anyone even consider getting on a plane or even a cruise ship right now. This wont last forever. Stay home or drive to your destination instead.

[davem4616]

Exactly. Unless there is a life and death emergency, why would anyone even consider getting on a plane or even a cruise ship right now. This wont last forever. Stay home or drive to your destination instead.


exactly

Until there is a vaccine we're not getting on a plane or a small cruise ship...nor do we really want anyone flying down to visit us until there is a vaccine...otherwise, there's no point in trying to 'play it safe / social distance' with everything else

yup...disappointing that we're not able to knock off a few more bucket list items and our 'run way' for doing that is getting shorter...so we're giving a lot more to those in need

[17362]

It would bankrupt them.

We need transporters!

[Two Bills]

What they are doing is taking your temperature, if you have a fever you won’t be allowed to fly, but according to what we know, you might be infected without fever or show any signs of sickness and still be a carrier and potentially infect your fellow passengers, The other test is not that accurate at least yet, that appears to be what happened on the flights coming from China and Europe which our President stopped. There are no way to keep you safe under the current scenarios while flying, masks are inadequate since the virus can enter through them, the only safe is a respirator or a mask with a face shield like the hospitals use. Sorry, I would not be flying anytime soon!!!!!!!


They are testing for Covid-19, with a new test they hope will give an accurate neg/pos.result in 20 minutes.
Nothing to do with temperatures, cures, or passengers from China or Europe.

[B-flat]

Exactly. Unless there is a life and death emergency, why would anyone even consider getting on a plane or even a cruise ship right now. This wont last forever. Stay home or drive to your destination instead.

This is a double edge sword. What do you do when you have to drive 1300 miles ? The drive cannot be done non-stop, well maybe it can but not safely. At least one night in a hotel so how can you be sure you won't get infected in a hotel? What about crossing state lines are there restrictions are they checking out of state license plates when they enter from another state? 22 hours by land 2 hours 40 minutes by air. All factors to be considered.

A cruise ship is not even a consideration without a virus. .

[Joe C.]

If you cruise …. you loose.
If you fly … you die.
So many people listen to the "talking heads" on the news, and they BELIEVE them!
I'm 72, and I cruise and fly. Never had a flu shot, pneumonia or shingles shot. Never will.
I enjoy living, and take reasonable care of myself. I do not live in fear, and refuse to wear a mask.
Life is out there.....enjoy it while you can. Don't deprive yourself of all the enjoyment that goes with it. :ho::ho::ho:

[theruizs]

If you cruise …. you loose.
If you fly … you die.
So many people listen to the "talking heads" on the news, and they BELIEVE them!
I'm 72, and I cruise and fly. Never had a flu shot, pneumonia or shingles shot. Never will.
I enjoy living, and take reasonable care of myself. I do not live in fear, and refuse to wear a mask.
Life is out there.....enjoy it while you can. Don't deprive yourself of all the enjoyment that goes with it. :ho::ho::ho:

Cool. But the mask isn’t to protect you. It’s to protect others from you. You can be infected and show no symptoms yet still be spreading the virus. The mask helps to minimize that. So, if you have no concerns for yourself that’s fine and it’s your choice. But at least give some thought to others and wear the mask when you are asked to.

[JulieER]

Authorities are trialing a 20 minute neg/pos. test for virus in one of the counties in UK.
If it works as they think it will, could be the way airlines go to check passengers prior to boarding.
Just another queue!

No test is 100% though. Even the rapid Abbott test is about 82-87% that the White House is using — and recently it was reported to be as low as 48%.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No mask could be enforced, if approved by the government, by putting the no masked person on the no fly list, which is for terrorist.

That can happen only AFTER a passenger has demonstrated that he won't wear a mask on the plane.

This issue doesn't have to do with that. It has to do with enforcing the law DURING the flight. Someone who comes to the airport with a mask - gets on the plane with a mask - and then takes the mask off after the plane is in the air...

CANNOT be ordered to put the mask on. They can't be ordered, because if he refuses - then what? What consequence will he suffer during that flight? You can't arrest him and put him in a jail cell - he's on an airplane, in the air. You can't kick him out. You can't wrestle him down and superglue a mask to his face.

There is no way to make anyone wear a mask in flight. Period.

[Scorpyo]

Why would the airlines get rid of a center seat? Why would they require masks? They wouldn't. There's two reasons why they wouldn't. The first is of course $$$$. They need to make a certain amount of money to stay in business and be profitable. By filling airplanes they can charge is little less. If they cut down on the number of seats they would have to charge more and as a result they may lose passengers. The second reason is they have no liability to filling the airplane. What if everyone on board got the virus who would they blame? They can't "prove" that they got it on the airplane. Therefore, there's no liability for the airline. The more the merrier. But don't they have a conscience? Money tops conscience. It's like a lot of people here that say they're going to live their lives without fear. If they get the virus so be it. But if they unknowingly give it to someone else then so be it as well. After all they don't know that they did it.

[retiredguy123]

Why would the airlines get rid of a center seat? Why would they require masks? They wouldn't. There's two reasons why they wouldn't. The first is of course $$$$. They need to make a certain amount of money to stay in business and be profitable. By filling airplanes they can charge is little less. If they cut down on the number of seats they would have to charge more and as a result they may lose passengers. The second reason is they have no liability to filling the airplane. What if everyone on board got the virus who would they blame? They can't "prove" that they got it on the airplane. Therefore, there's no liability for the airline. The more the merrier. But don't they have a conscience? Money tops conscience. It's like a lot of people here that say they're going to live their lives without fear. If they get the virus so be it. But if they unknowingly give it to someone else then so be it as well. After all they don't know that they did it.
They would if the Federal Government required them to do it. Airlines are really not independent businesses. They don't own the airports, the runways, the security system, or the air traffic control system. In fact, the air traffic controllers are Government employees. I think people have been getting sick on airplanes for years, and it has just gotten worse since they have found ways to make seats smaller and to fill every one of them. So, you may be required to share an armrest with a stranger who may have a cold or the flu, for a 6 hour flight. And, there may be a dog and a crying baby sitting next to you. I don't think that is acceptable, especially for a system that is mostly funded by the taxpayers.

[BS Beef]

I am flying on Southwest today. Got a notice masks are mandatory for all passengers. We got an email asking us to change since the flight we were on was overbooked. Not overbooked for the planes capacity, but for the amount of passengers they would like to keep the plane at. It actually worked out better for us so we did change. Couple other thoughts. Planes today use HEPA filters so it's not the same recycled air you are likely thinking of from the past. I have flown a few times since COVID-19 and have felt perfectly safe each time.

Finally, IMHO living in fear is not living at all. I'm not suggesting you start licking hand rails. Of course take common sense steps to protect yourself, but you have to enjoy life or what's the point.

[Two Bills]

No test is 100% though. Even the rapid Abbott test is about 82-87% that the White House is using — and recently it was reported to be as low as 48%.

Nothing is 100% sure in life, except death.
The trial they are using is new, they have no numbers or results yet.
Trying something is better than being negative about everything, befor a single result is published.

[Jsan143]

The airlines have implemented mandatory masks, they’ve blocked middle seats up to 40% of the capacity. Flight crews are also wearing masks. For those passengers that refuse to follow the rules there will be consequences, we have been told we can and most probably will divert to the nearest safest airport to have the passenger or passengers arrested! But of course our courts never hold the traveling public accountable for their actions, If they throw a few people in jail for extended period and severe fines this nonsense would have stopped along time ago. However it is still one of the safest ways to travel!

[Two Bills]

Pesonally I cannot see how blocking out the middle seat makes one jot of difference.
I have yet to sit in any six foot wide seat on any aeroplane.
It's just window dressing!

[billethkid]

Pesonally I cannot see how blosking out the middle seat makes one jot of difference.
I have yet to sit in any six foot wide seat on any aeroplane.
It's just window dressing!

Just like wearing gloves....eye wash!

[B767drvr]

If you patronized a restaurant, hair salon, or grocery store and knew the entire volume of air in those buildings is evacuated every 2-3 minutes, I think that would give many a greater sense of safety. That's what occurs on an aircraft. 50% of that air is then recycled through HEPA filters and re-enters the cabin. How good are HEPA filters in aircraft you ask?

"HEPA or high efficiency particulate air filters have similar performance to those used to keep the air clean in hospital operating rooms and industrial clean rooms. These filters are very effective at trapping microscopic particles as small as bacteria and viruses."

When traveling as a passenger, my advice is to always have the overhead air vent open slightly and blowing on your face to provide fresh air.

[BS Beef]

Just like wearing gloves....eye wash!

:boom: What he said!!!

[Scorpyo]

They would if the Federal Government required them to do it. Airlines are really not independent businesses. They don't own the airports, the runways, the security system, or the air traffic control system. In fact, the air traffic controllers are Government employees. I think people have been getting sick on airplanes for years, and it has just gotten worse since they have found ways to make seats smaller and to fill every one of them. So, you may be required to share an armrest with a stranger who may have a cold or the flu, for a 6 hour flight. And, there may be a dog and a crying baby sitting next to you. I don't think that is acceptable, especially for a system that is mostly funded by the taxpayers.
I agree to everything you wrote. Your first sentence really is the main subject. Traveling on airplanes is generally a less than pleasurable experience. So in answer to your first statement I have to answer it with a question. Why hasn’t the government stepped in and placed restrictions and requirements on airlines? I’m sure folks could come up with many reasons. However the true reason is because it’s not politically expedient. If it does not personally benefit a politician they will not touch it. Requiring everyone to wear a mask would upset those that don’t want to wear a mask. Saying masks are not required would upset those that want everyone to wear a mask. Requiring seats to be six feet apart would put some airlines out of business. So what do they do? Simply ignore it and say that airlines should do everything possible for the passengers and staff. Whatever that means.

[Henryk]

That's all well and good but how will it be enforced once the plane is in the air? A bunch of people decide to take their masks off and - and what? What'cha gonna DO about it?

Not a thing. They'll fly without their masks on.

Mandatory masks on airplanes *cannot* be enforced.

Actually, it can. One or two reports of arrests for violating mask orders would do the trick. Get 'em on landing.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Actually, it can. One or two reports of arrests for violating mask orders would do the trick. Get 'em on landing.

That doesn't stop them from removing the masks WHILE THEY ARE ON THE PLANE.

Getting them after the fact doesn't do diddly squat in reducing the risk for all the other passengers that they just spent the last 2+ hours with in close quarters.

[ColdNoMore]

No mask could be enforced, if approved by the government, by putting the no masked person on the no fly list, which is for terrorist.Not a bad idea at all.

The consequences, and following through, with putting people who take their masks off while in flight on a 'no-fly' list the same as a terrorist...might just quickly get some folks attention.

And quite frankly, if they are taking their masks off against federal regulations...why shouldn't they be considered "domestic terrorists" when it comes to flying?

[fdpaq0580]

That can happen only AFTER a passenger has demonstrated that he won't wear a mask on the plane.

This issue doesn't have to do with that. It has to do with enforcing the law DURING the flight. Someone who comes to the airport with a mask - gets on the plane with a mask - and then takes the mask off after the plane is in the air...

CANNOT be ordered to put the mask on. They can't be ordered, because if he refuses - then what? What consequence will he suffer during that flight? You can't arrest him and put him in a jail cell - he's on an airplane, in the air. You can't kick him out. You can't wrestle him down and superglue a mask to his face.

There is no way to make anyone wear a mask in flight. Period.

How about flight attendants photo document the offenders actions, pilot calls ahead and offender is taken into custody upon landing and charged with assault on everyone on board?
May sound far fetched and extreme, but if told that is what will happen the offender might reconsider and think of his/her own best interest. Just a thought.

[Bellavita]

because they are greedy

[Topspinmo]

How about we protect ourselves? I surprised some people has made it pass kindergarten. Protect yourself, nobody else going to. I didn’t fly much before, and I’m damn sure not going to fly now unless it’s last resort emergency. The only way I would think of getting on plane would be wearing N95 mask with wrap around sunglasses.

[anothersteve]

.....

[Two Bills]

I am going to watch the incidents of Covid-19 infection rates among flight crews, before I decide to fly the Atlantic this winter.
If the numbers are low to none, we will fly.
High numbers, we will not.

Building a rowing boat, and got wife doing two hours a day on rowing machine every day, just in case.
I will navigate! :icon_wink:

[golfing eagles]

How about flight attendants photo document the offenders actions, pilot calls ahead and offender is taken into custody upon landing and charged with assault on everyone on board?
May sound far fetched and extreme, but if told that is what will happen the offender might reconsider and think of his/her own best interest. Just a thought.

And impractical as well. For it to be considered assault, you would have to 1) prove the person has the virus, 2) they knew they had the virus, and 3) they had the INTENT to spread the virus (mens rea applies).
No DA would ever attempt to try such a case

[dcorts]

Yes it could be if the government would make a rule to put that person without a mascon on the do not fly list.

[johnadamsUSMC]

Before this pandemic, I flew 150,000 miles for the last 15 years (Delta Diamond Member with over 3M miles). Delta's plan, like many others include eliminating the middle seat (and I've seen that enforced), loading the back of the plane first (which makes sense), and highly recommending masks. All their employees will be required to have masks as well. They've also improved the ventilation systems on the plane. Will I fly soon? Is flying essential to my livelyhood? YES and YES

just my opinion though...........and remember, how can someone's "opinion" be wrong? It's merely an opinion not a fact statement

[SharonW]

American Airlines

A face covering is required while flying on American, except for very young children or anyone with a condition that prevents them from wearing one. You also may be required by local law to wear a face covering in the airport where your trip begins, where it ends or where you connect.

Please bring your own face covering to use while traveling. While limited quantities of face coverings may be available at the gate, they will not be available for every customer on every flight.
Be sure your face covering is on before you board the plane and wear it during your flight.
Your face covering may be removed to eat or drink, but please put it back on when you’re done.
Keep in mind, a face covering can be a mask or any secured cloth like a scarf or bandana that covers your nose and mouth. Visit the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website for more information.
Seat assignments

We’re continuing to limit the number of customers on our flights.

When time and flights permit, gate agents may reassign seats to create more space between customers or to accommodate families who need to be seated together.

Once boarding is complete you can move to another seat within your ticketed cabin.*

[theruizs]

My concern was that the requirements vary by airline. Given they are all regulated by the FAA I would have hoped that they would step in and make a set of requirements that apply to all. Some airlines are limiting seating, others are not or are ambiguous about it and I have no doubt it will vary even by flight/destination, etc. These planes are enclosed with recycled air so the time/exposure is very high if anyone on board has it but is not yet showing symptons. Masks for passengers and crew, and no more than 60% of capacity would seem to me to be a minimum requirement. We don’t fly again until July (unless things go south again) so I hope it is a non-issue by then.