Pre-emptive replacement

[Chatbrat]

Our house is 9 yrs old--planing in replacing the a/c & hot water heater @ the 10 yr mark

When we do the a/c --we will install a/c in the lanai & the garage

And the new hot water heater will be a 50 gal model vs the 40 gal one we currently have

Wondering has anyone here done anything similar

[Stu from NYC]

why replace water heater so early we have had them go well over 15 years.

[Chatbrat]

Because in an emergency you can negotiate & our 40 gal water heater is marginal for taking a bath

[stadry]

peace of mind & 1 generally has difficulty negotiating in a crisis,,, probably need a larger a/c unit
50gal's a good choice & won't cost much more,,, expansion tank will handle both sizes,,, flush wtr htr every month ( 20min ) & it'll last much longer than 10yrs,,, while you're at it, recommend whole house water filter too,,, they're cheap & well worth the addl exp impo

[retiredguy123]

It's probably a good idea to upsize your water heater. In my previous house, I had a 75 gallon water heater because I had a spa type bath tub. I think both the water heater and the HVAC unit will last about 15 years. 10 years seems a little too soon to replace. I don't think the ability to "negotiate" the price before something fails is worth much at all. The replacement prices are actually pretty much fixed. And, there are plenty of reputable contractors who can replace these items within a day or so. Also, if you have not been flushing your old water heater regularly, I would highly recommend that you don't start doing it now. You could create a leak in the drain valve and will have a plumbing emergency. Most people never flush their water heater. Also, if you plan to heat and cool your lanai and garage, it is very important that you plan to insulate the ceilings in these areas, which will probably involve a second contractor.

[village dreamer]

why flush your water heater?? to flush out what, we have clean city water. you may get some grit from the main water line,maybe 1/4 cup after 5-8 years. if you open the drain valve it may not reseal.

[retiredguy123]

why flush your water heater?? to flush out what, we have clean city water. you may get some grit from the main water line,maybe 1/4 cup after 5-8 years. if you open the drain valve it may not reseal.
I agree. But, there will be sediment coating the bottom of the water heater over time. The problem is that, when you open the valve, the opening is very small, and most of the sediment will remain in the tank because it is stuck to the bottom. And, yes, there is a good possibility that the valve will leak when you try to close it. Rheem, a company that makes water heaters only "suggests" that you drain a small amount of water from the tank every month. And, I think they realize that almost no one actually ever does this.

[Toymeister]

The reason he is talking about flushing the hwh is he is referring to a tankless hwh. That flushing is done annually, not monthly.

[thevillagernie]

Our house is 9 yrs old--planing in replacing the a/c & hot water heater @ the 10 yr mark

When we do the a/c --we will install a/c in the lanai & the garage

And the new hot water heater will be a 50 gal model vs the 40 gal one we currently have

Wondering has anyone here done anything similar
go tankless on the water heater

[Chatbrat]

Tankless only works if you have natural gas--we drained our 40 gal for the first time after 9 yrs very little sediment--we have a whole house water filter and an electronic descaler--they're doing a fine job

[woderfulwendy1]

I'll take the old a/c ours is 15 years and just fine. Sounds like your money is burning a hole in your pockets. Please remember to donate.

[Raywatkins]

We had the Lanai converted into a sun room and had the AC extended. If your Lanai is a birdcage type the AC will probably be less than efficient. If you enclose the lanai it requires a permit and your property taxes will rise, if your AC is extended. (It’s then classed as a Cat 5 improvement). If you want to avoid the higher taxes for an enclosed lanai you need a stand alone AC. That is probably a better option if you want to have a bird cage air cooled. We used Epic builders who gave great advice on our conversion.

[toeser]

Our house is 9 yrs old--planing in replacing the a/c & hot water heater @ the 10 yr mark

When we do the a/c --we will install a/c in the lanai & the garage

And the new hot water heater will be a 50 gal model vs the 40 gal one we currently have

Wondering has anyone here done anything similar

Obviously it is your house and you are free to replace things as you see fit, but why? I just sold a house in which the air conditioner was over 15 years old and operating perfectly. Whenever I have an appliance repaired, invariably the repairman says "keep it running because the new products aren't as good."

[17362]

Our house is 9 yrs old--planing in replacing the a/c & hot water heater @ the 10 yr mark

When we do the a/c --we will install a/c in the lanai & the garage

And the new hot water heater will be a 50 gal model vs the 40 gal one we currently have

Wondering has anyone here done anything similar

Our house is 17 years old. We bought last year. Within 2 days the water heater had to be replaced, it was about to explode- rock hard. We opted for the 50 gal.
That being said we had the HVAC evaluated. It’s good for a few more years. The people dumped vinegar in the lines and caused rusting, cleaned that up, not too extensive. It’s all still within parameters for cooling and heat. We figure within 5 years for the HVAC. Note: professionals say only Run HOT water once a month thru your HVAC.
We also got a whole house system water softener. We already see the damage reversing at the sinks.

[richl]

My understanding is that your RET will increase if you add the extra ac in those places

[Dwest135790]

We replaced ours with a tankless, was the best thing ever!!! Saved lots of space in my closets for more “stuff”

[photo1902]

We replaced ours with a tankless, was the best thing ever!!! Saved lots of space in my closets for more “stuff”

Apples and oranges. The OP doesn’t have natural gas, so tankless is not an option.

[Vicxyz]

Apples and oranges. The OP doesn’t have natural gas, so tankless is not an option.

Electric tankless water heaters are readily available.

[Toymeister]

Tankless only works if you have natural gas--we drained our 40 gal for the first time after 9 yrs very little sediment--we have a whole house water filter and an electronic descaler--they're doing a fine job

Absolutely incorrect. Tankless are sold three ways, propane, natural gas, and electric.

Tankless hwh are rated by flow rates, so many gallons per minute. 2.5 .gpm will suit you fine. You do not take 100% hot showers (140 degrees), nor do you wash your hands with just hot. Tankless flow flow rates also consider incoming temp of cold water. Our cold is much warmer than Wisconsin, for example.I

Google is friendly, you can discover electric tankless hwh there.

[Toymeister]

Apples and oranges. The OP doesn’t have natural gas, so tankless is not an option.

Where do these rumors start?

Electric tankless hwh do require a new breaker and a new line to the heater, 60 amps or so, but then again a natural gas tankless hwh require a 3/4 inch gas line, NOT the 1/2 inch gas line a tanked gas heater has.

How do I know? I installed two of these.

If you want some real world, accurate information ask, I'll try to answer.

[Holpat39]

Our AC is 17 years old. Recent service said it is in good condition. Don't replace until necessary. Hot water tank replaced 10 years ago only because Teco Gas was giving a hefty rebate which cost us next to nothing to replace. We put air/heat in our lanai with the small Mitsubishi unit which sits outside with a small unit high up on the wall in the lanai. Nice to have when you are not using the lanai and why air condition or heat when not in use.

[TedfromGA]

Purchased 9 year old (all electric) designer. Over the next 1 1/2 years I added a water softener to the Nova water filters, drained the hot water tank (40 gal) [lots of white sand like stuff came out], added external insulation around the hot water tank, replaced the hot water heating elements (very corroded), added more insulation over the attic and garage, added Generac whole home generator, and replaced the HVAC with a high efficiency unit from Chuck Farrell.

Yes the Carrier HVAC unit was working fine. Why replace it? A) Technology wise HVAC units have greatly improved from those 10 years ago. B) Replacement on my schedule which allowed multiple quotes that varied widely.

Bottom line - reduced electric bill, very even temperature (heating/cooling), confidence in knowing home well insulated and potential unexpected problems are minimized. (Hot water heater is on the replacement to-do-list).

[NoMoSno]

Our house is 17 years old. We bought last year. Within 2 days the water heater had to be replaced, it was about to explode- rock hard. We opted for the 50 gal.
That being said we had the HVAC evaluated. It’s good for a few more years. The people dumped vinegar in the lines and caused rusting, cleaned that up, not too extensive. It’s all still within parameters for cooling and heat. We figure within 5 years for the HVAC. Note: professionals say only Run HOT water once a month thru your HVAC.
We also got a whole house system water softener. We already see the damage reversing at the sinks.
Drain lines in the HVAC are plastic...nothing to rust.

[rlcooper70]

Why are we not replacing water heaters with the tankless heaters that they have developed? Why should we use so much energy to keep 40-50 gallons hot all the time?

Anyone have experience with tankless?

[davephan]

I think it’s a good idea to think about replacing some things before they fail, such as a hot water heater. The hot water heater can fail catastrophically, which causes water to leak out of the bottom of the water heater quickly, creating a flooding problem, which can damage your house. This could be especially bad if that happens when your house is unattended for a long time.

The downside to tankless water heaters is that they are more expensive, and the hot water outage is immediate, if it’s an electric tankless water heater, and you have a power outage, and don’t have a electric generator.

Our central AC failed in Minnesota in the middle of the summer, and had to be replaced. At the same time, we replaced the furnace because it was about 20 years old, and had to be repaired two years in a row, both were emergency service, which is more expensive, in the middle of the winter. We wanted a more reliable HVAC system before we started snow birding and doing more traveling in our upcoming retirement years.

Having a split AC system in addition to your central AC makes sense. You could have a split AC system in the master bedroom and lani. If the main AC system fails, you have a backup AC system. Plus, you could keep the master bedroom cooler, run the split system only on less hot nights. Or, run the lani split system only when you use the lani.

Here’s a link to the Honeywell mixing valve. It can increase the capacity of a water heater by mixing the cold and hot water after the water heater. Less cold water enters the hot water heater, which increase the capacity of the hot water heater.


honeywelll mixing valve increased hot water capacity - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=_s_HXreDDMOKtAbYv6WgDw&q=honeywelll+mixing+valve+increased+hot+water+capa city&oq=honeywelll+mixing+valve+increased+hot+water+cap acity&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBQghEKsCMgU IIRCrAjoECAAQRzoCCCk6BAgAEA06BggAEBYQHjoHCCEQChCgA ToICCEQFhAdEB46CAgAEAgQDRAeUIQoWL6lAWCLqwFoAXABeAC AAW2IAbQdkgEEMzguNZgBAKABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp)

[Raine700]

We enclosed our lanai a year and a half ago and put in a ductless a/c. Your taxes will not go up unless you take out the glass sliders into the main part of the house.

[retiredguy123]

Why are we not replacing water heaters with the tankless heaters that they have developed? Why should we use so much energy to keep 40-50 gallons hot all the time?

Anyone have experience with tankless?
Because the replacement cost is much higher if you replace a tank type water heater with a tankless. It's the same reason most people aren't installing solar panels and adding more attic insulation to their houses. You can buy an insulation kit for your water heater, but most people aren't doing that either.

But, it is interesting that there is a Federal Government label on my 40 gallon water heater that says the estimated cost to operate it is $555 per year. That's funny, because my total electric cost for my all electric house is only about $1100 per year.

[Chatbrat]

A tankless electric hot water heater that can handle the whole house should require a much larger circuit than 60 amp 240 v--correct me if I'm wrong

[New Englander]

I agree. But, there will be sediment coating the bottom of the water heater over time. The problem is that, when you open the valve, the opening is very small, and most of the sediment will remain in the tank because it is stuck to the bottom. And, yes, there is a good possibility that the valve will leak when you try to close it. Rheem, a company that makes water heaters only "suggests" that you drain a small amount of water from the tank every month. And, I think they realize that almost no one actually ever does this.

I had this happen to me up north years ago. I had to go to home depot and get a cap. I'll never drain a water heater tank again.

[biker1]

You should think twice about an electric tankless water heater. The custom builder of our previous home (not in The Villages) wound up pulling out the ones he installed because of complaints. I specified a Marathon tank electric water heater. They have a fiberglass tank and no sacrificial anode rods. They pretty much last forever but take up more space because of the foam insulation and cost more. The energy cost of maintaining the temperature of the water in the tank of a Marathon is not an issue.

Why are we not replacing water heaters with the tankless heaters that they have developed? Why should we use so much energy to keep 40-50 gallons hot all the time?

Anyone have experience with tankless?

[Raybemis1]

Go with a tankless water heater.

[noslices1]

Our house is 9 yrs old--planing in replacing the a/c & hot water heater @ the 10 yr mark

When we do the a/c --we will install a/c in the lanai & the garage

And the new hot water heater will be a 50 gal model vs the 40 gal one we currently have

Wondering has anyone here done anything similar

You may want to check with someone, but I believe that if you add A/C to your lanai, you are increasing the square feet of the living area in your home. That will affect your tax assessment for property taxes. Don’t know for sure, but that’s what I have heard.

[Toymeister]

Why are we not replacing water heaters with the tankless heaters that they have developed? Why should we use so much energy to keep 40-50 gallons hot all the time?

Anyone have experience with tankless?
That's a common myth. How do I know? My whole house electricity monitor checks the usage 86.4 million times a day. I have used my Wi-Fi monitor to check exactly how much it costs to keep water hot in an empty house vice an occupied one.

Think about it for a moment, it costs the same to heat water no matter what, the only energy a tankless saves is standby loss. An average couple will uses 13.00 to 16.00 per month for a tanked heater. Standby losses run about 2.00 a month.

Edit to clarify: Obviously I speak of an electric home.

For a gas home, where natural gas is almost completely consumed by the hwh, a tankless makes no economic sense at all. The meter fees for the gas line far exceed the total consumption costs for a tanked or tankless heater. Sure, if you have a gas heater pool or just like gas then cost isn't relevant.

[Villagesgal]

My a/c lasted 16 years, why replace so soon. Water heater lasted 14 years, replaced with a gas tank less offered by the gas company for a huge discount via rebate. You should at least wait a few more years. For a/c call Chuck Farrell, his pricing is amazing and excellent service.

[Toymeister]

Why do people NOT like tankless?

1. Expense.

2. The promised energy savings are a myth.

3. Tankless hwh require annual flushing. While simple it is necessary.

4. The cold sandwich effect. Let's say you take a shower first, the water flows, the flow sensor turns the heater on after a moment delay, the pipes clear of cold water and you get hot. Your wife takes a shower ten minutes after you. Nice and hot! Then a blast of cold(er) water until the pipes fill again with hot.

You can get a circulating pump to correct this, this will more than negate any standby savings.

Why DO people like tankless?

1. Space savings

2. Endless hot water.

[retiredguy123]

I had this happen to me up north years ago. I had to go to home depot and get a cap. I'll never drain a water heater tank again.
That is a good point. If you do plan to open the drain valve on your water heater, for any reason, you should buy a plastic or brass cap and rubber washer that fits onto the drain line. Then, you are prepared in case the valve leaks after you close it.

[Curtisbwp]

My house was built in 2006. It is 14 years old. My air and water heater are in great shape. I have seen many people who replace 'because it is getting old' why spend money before you have to???

[JIMLUPO77]

Hwh ( hot water heater )…………. Just wondering... Does anyone know of a cold water heater ??????

They are simply water heaters. Lol

[Toymeister]

Hwh ( hot water heater )…………. Just wondering... Does anyone know of a cold water heater ??????

They are simply water heaters. Lol

Actually there are storage water heaters, tankless water heaters or simple Hot Water Systems (HWS). But this doesn't add anything to the conversation does it?

When a thread gets to the point that grammar is discussed I am done. Any questions on the topic (for me) shoot me a PM.

[photo1902]

Electric tankless water heaters are readily available.

They are, for sure. Know anyone who has one installed....let alone has one installed and see's any difference in efficiency and cost?

[jrenschen]

Make sure you look at a split system for the lanai. It gave us another year round room. Costs to run are low.

[davephan]

But, it is interesting that there is a Federal Government label on my 40 gallon water heater that says the estimated cost to operate it is $555 per year. That's funny, because my total electric cost for my all electric house is only about $1100 per year.

Your electric bill is dirt cheap. Our natural gas plus electricity costs are around $300 a month in Minnesota. The electricity costs a little over 13 cents per KWH, not including the "junk" fees. How many square footage do you have, and what temperature is your AC set at? How much does your electricity cost per KWH?

[pcacace]

Purchase a home warrantee from Broward factory co and they will replace your appliances when they will repair or replace an appliance.
A/c, washer, dryer, fridge, etc. it’ll be worth it.

[retiredguy123]

Your electric bill is dirt cheap. Our natural gas plus electricity costs are around $300 a month in Minnesota. The electricity costs a little over 13 cents per KWH, not including the "junk" fees. How many square footage do you have, and what temperature is your AC set at? How much does your electricity cost per KWH?
I have about 1100 SF and the thermostat is set at 77 degrees 24/7. My house is all electric, no gas. My current electric bill for the month was $79.34 for 585 kwh of usage.

[Brad-tv]

There's a lot of good info on this thread about water heaters. One point I would like to mention is the expansion tanks most homes have them located on top of the hot water tanks. They are a small metal tank( looks similar to a propane tank) that regulates the water pressure in the home. The hot water heats up in the hot water tank and builds pressure from the heat. The expansion tank regulates the pressure from building up too high in all the pipes in the house. They should be checked annually to see if the pressure is close to the average water pressure coming into your home ( usually around 60-80 psi). There is a Schrader valve on top and you can use a tire gauge to check the pressure. Another quick way to see if it's blown is to simply tap on the tank and see if it's full of water. Start tapping on the bottom of the tank and it will sound like a thud and continue to tap all the way to the top to see if it sounds hollow on top. Normally the tank will be filled half way with water on the bottom and empty on top. If it sounds like a thud all the way through it should be replaced ASAP. Since the average pressure in the villages has recently increased we have found a large majority of these tanks blown. This also can do damage your hot water tanks and cause leaks in fittings and hoses throughout the home if is not working properly. Tankless water heaters do not have these. And many older homes do not either. It is recommended in the industry to have one installed ( excluding tankless) if your hot water tank does not have one. Also if you check the pressure on the tank and water comes out of the valve it's blown and should be replaced ASAP. I believe part of the problem stems from the tank not being pressurized properly when installed. Most tanks seem to last a average of 3-5 years if not properly installed. Definitely worth checking to see if your tank is working properly. There's a ton of info online to explain how these work if you want to research.

[retiredguy123]

There's a lot of good info on this thread about water heaters. One point I would like to mention is the expansion tanks most homes have them located on top of the hot water tanks. They are a small metal tank( looks similar to a propane tank) that regulates the water pressure in the home. The hot water heats up in the hot water tank and builds pressure from the heat. The expansion tank regulates the pressure from building up too high in all the pipes in the house. They should be checked annually to see if the pressure is close to the average water pressure coming into your home ( usually around 60-80 psi). There is a Schrader valve on top and you can use a tire gauge to check the pressure. Another quick way to see if it's blown is to simply tap on the tank and see if it's full of water. Start tapping on the bottom of the tank and it will sound like a thud and continue to tap all the way to the top to see if it sounds hollow on top. Normally the tank will be filled half way with water on the bottom and empty on top. If it sounds like a thud all the way through it should be replaced ASAP. Since the average pressure in the villages has recently increased we have found a large majority of these tanks blown. This also can do damage your hot water tanks and cause leaks in fittings and hoses throughout the home if is not working properly. Tankless water heaters do not have these. And many older homes do not either. It is recommended in the industry to have one installed ( excluding tankless) if your hot water tank does not have one. Also if you check the pressure on the tank and water comes out of the valve it's blown and should be replaced ASAP. I believe part of the problem stems from the tank not being pressurized properly when installed. Most tanks seem to last a average of 3-5 years if not properly installed. Definitely worth checking to see if your tank is working properly. There's a ton of info online to explain how these work if you want to research.
I agree. I have also found that some people will replace their water heater in an older house that does not have an expansion tank, because they were not required by code when the house was built. The plumber who installs the new water heater doesn't want to go to the trouble to rearrange the water pipes, so he doesn't install an expansion tank and doesn't inform the homeowner that it is a necessary safety feature. So, if you don't have an expansion tank, make sure you get one installed when you replace the water heater.

[davephan]

I have about 1100 SF and the thermostat is set at 77 degrees 24/7. My house is all electric, no gas. My current electric bill for the month was $79.34 for 585 kwh of usage.

Thanks for your response. You simply use a lot less electricity than we use. Our house is almost three times the size as your house, and we simply use more electricity. I checked a recent statement, and we consumed 1,345 KWH, and they charge 8.8 cents per KWH. The total monthly bill for electricity was $192.62, which also includes the 'junk' fees. Besides that it was $70.88 for 126 therms of natural gas. In the deep winter, just the natural gas alone can get close to $300 in a very cold month. We have the temperature set at about 74 degrees all year, either heat or AC.