Mail in Ballots

[mtdjed]

I am not against mail in ballots. However, I think that there should be a requirement that they should be requested. That way a need is expressed, a current address is provided, and an opportunity to insure that the requester is properly registered can be verified.

Simply mailing to everybody creates an needless opportunity for confusion and abuse.

From the beginning of this country, voting has been a right that must be personally performed. Choosing not to vote is your decision. A vote should be private. Nobody should know my vote. All votes should be collected by the vote deadline. Votes delivered after the vote deadline should be nullified. Otherwise my vote is essentially known.

[Two Bills]

One thing for sure, is the losing candidate will claim voter fraud whatever method is used.
Default mode for all post election analysis in this day and age!

[JimJohnson]

Being retired Military, I voted absentee over my career. Was my vote suspicious and should it have been considered fraud? :ohdear:

[Two Bills]

Being retired Military, I voted absentee over my career. Was my vote suspicious and should it have been considered fraud? :ohdear:

Only if you voted blue!:icon_wink:

[golfing eagles]

Being retired Military, I voted absentee over my career. Was my vote suspicious and should it have been considered fraud? :ohdear:

No, it doesn't. And thank you for your service!

However, when Willie Sutton was asked "Why do you rob banks?", his reply was "because that's where the money is."
Over the years, mail in voting was such a small percentage of the total vote that it wasn't worth the risk of committing voter fraud. With that percentage increasing greatly, I'm afraid it may become an easy target. I feel the same way about "early voting". Two or three days, yeah, OK, but 30 days? A lot can be revealed in 30 days prior to an election---perhaps a candidate might be charged with murder or rape. Sounds a little far fetched? Remember not to long ago a candidate could have (and IMHO should have) been charged with felony violation of the National Security Act. Once those early votes are cast, they can't be taken back. And 30 days gives plenty of time to run fraudulent votes through the system. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but is it worth the risk? We all know who benefits from the dead and repeat votes already.

[GoPacers]

Let's be clear, mail-in voting is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with the concept. Never has been and never will be. The issue is verifying/validating that any given voter is authorized to vote and is who they say they are. If Congress (and the states) would take that issue seriously then we would not be talking about mail-in voting at all.

Talking about voter fraud: what system have we ever had that hasn't been decried for the potential for voter fraud? I'll admit there are elections that have been impacted due to voter fraud over the years but those are very few. In many, but not all, of those cases the votes were coerced yet legally cast.

In this whole debate we've lost sight of the facts which seems to be all too prevalent lately. When we don't have facts to support our position we make stuff up that can't be easily proven/disproven. When we have data but that data doesn't support our position we obfuscate the issue such that data becomes irrelevant and we appeal to emotions to supersede logic.

Those that have the legal right to vote should be allowed to vote by any means available. We should not be making it hard for anyone to vote as a means to influence elections. What we should be focusing on is using the vast array of technology available to us to ensure those who vote are entitled to vote and that their vote is in fact theirs. The reason we are not doing this is it removes an excuse for the losing side to obfuscate the facts and create uncertainty. This has not changed since the earliest days of elections in this great country. Bad actors have been trying to influence the will of the people through nefarious means since day one.

The simple fact that we are debating mail-in voting says the politicians have succeeded in planting seeds of doubt in the process without ever producing one single piece of data to prove that mail-in voting is the issue.

[JGVillages]

Sad commentary when in this high technology age, when a company like Fed Ex can out of millions of packages know where every package is to the minute, yet we cannot develop an accurate and fraud resistant mechanism to vote. Just another reminder of the inability of government to be better at something than the private sector.
PS: If counterfeit money can be made, producing a fake ballot will be simple.

[retiredguy123]

The issue is not whether we can develop an accurate voting system. The real issue is that many people don't want an accurate system.

[fishon]

Mail in ballots are considered suspect.
They are only scrutinized and counted when the election is close enough.
Hence the big to do a couple of years ago when the ballots from overseas military were late being delivered and returned.

[Bay Kid]

We will be finding bags of ballots for years to come. Such a shame but we are turning into a 3rd world country.

[pharmguy]

One thing for sure, is the losing candidate will claim voter fraud whatever method is used.
Default mode for all post election analysis in this day and age!

Absolutely right. Guaranteed that no matter how the vote goes down the election will end up in the Supreme Court.

[jacksonbrown]

"Let's be clear, mail-in voting is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with the concept. Never has been and never will be. "

Rubbish!

Voting is THE foundation of our republic.

See here (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/08/what-does-the-constitution-actually-say-about-voting-rights/278782/)

Is it too much to ask that a voter MUST produce a picture ID, in person, to vote? In my mind NO!

[Regor]

If our president does it, what can be wrong?

[billethkid]

The issue is not whether we can develop an accurate voting system. The real issue is that many people don't want an accurate system.

Very nice summation of the real issue!!!

[jacksonbrown]

A nationwide effort is underway in at least 16 states to overturn restrictions on mail-in voting and third-party ballot harvesting. States where suits have been filed include the swing states of Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

click here for the article
(https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/26/spygate-law-firm-that-attempted-to-overturn-2016-election-behind-2020-voting-lawsuits/)

If this is adjudicated in their favor then your ballot, which you lawfully and dutifully cast, can easily be compromised.

[mtdjed]

My concern is that a ballot is/should be like money. If you are "eligible" you are entitled to one. You go to the polls and show your ID and receive one. If you go a second time, the record would show that you already had your one vote. If you request a mail in ballot , you get one. There should not be an uncontrolled mass distribution sent to "Current Residents" like an advertisement.
If states can insure the control of such ballots to insure the one per person rule is maintained in each voting district, show the plan. Show how all districts are prepared to verify, count and report results in a timely manner. No bags showing up weeks later.

[GoPacers]

"Let's be clear, mail-in voting is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with the concept. Never has been and never will be. "

Rubbish!

Voting is THE foundation of our republic.

See here (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/08/what-does-the-constitution-actually-say-about-voting-rights/278782/)

Is it too much to ask that a voter MUST produce a picture ID, in person, to vote? In my mind NO!

How did you equate mail-in voting with anything the article references? Nothing in the constitution speaks to HOW people are enabled/allowed to vote. You're doing exactly what I said folks do - obfuscating and changing the debate to something totally unrelated to the issue.

I also don't understand why you would reference an article from the Atlantic to support a typically conservative view of voting rights? Me thinks you may not have understood the point of the article.

[Stu from NYC]

"Let's be clear, mail-in voting is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with the concept. Never has been and never will be. "

Rubbish!

Voting is THE foundation of our republic.

See here (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/08/what-does-the-constitution-actually-say-about-voting-rights/278782/)

Is it too much to ask that a voter MUST produce a picture ID, in person, to vote? In my mind NO!

Do not understand why people are not required to show proof of citizenship to vote.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I’m a person who liked to vote on Election Day.there were 57.2 million voters who voted early in 2016 and many of them were people I knew here . I didn’t hear any of them including the president complain about the early voting , but now all I’m hearing is complaining from the same people about fraudulent voting hmmmmm

[GoPacers]

Do not understand why people are not required to show proof of citizenship to vote.

Good question - tell me the last time you were required to show proof of citizenship when you voted? Just to be clear - a driver's license is not proof of citizenship. My guess is the overwhelming majority of voters have never been asked to show proof of citizenship.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The comment about not being able to access polls is for the most part a Red Herring . That is purely a local issue to be addressed by local governments. Since the beginning of this country , citizens have had to make an effort to vote. Name calling of citizens concerned about integrity of the system is not justified.

The entire brouhaha started when dozens of polling places in minority areas were shut down by state governments, and then minorities trying to get rides to areas away from their homes were not allowed into the other polling places. Some disabled people were instructed to NOT get on the bus that would take them to a distant polling area.

In some states, there were only 2-3 polling areas in an entire county to serve hundreds of thousands of people, because the GOVERNMENT shut down the other polling places ON Election Day.

Meanwhile, in states where absentee voting was allowed, voting took place anyway. And NO confirmed mail fraud AT ALL in those areas.

The red herring is the notion that mail fraud is even a thing with absentee voting. It isn't.

[Bucco]

The entire brouhaha started when dozens of polling places in minority areas were shut down by state governments, and then minorities trying to get rides to areas away from their homes were not allowed into the other polling places. Some disabled people were instructed to NOT get on the bus that would take them to a distant polling area.

In some states, there were only 2-3 polling areas in an entire county to serve hundreds of thousands of people, because the GOVERNMENT shut down the other polling places ON Election Day.

Meanwhile, in states where absentee voting was allowed, voting took place anyway. And NO confirmed mail fraud AT ALL in those areas.

The red herring is the notion that mail fraud is even a thing with absentee voting. It isn't.

You will confuse the "prescribed" message by talking facts. Confusing how "made up stuff" somehow becomes fact to many.

Thanks for staying in reality

[retiredguy123]

Do not understand why people are not required to show proof of citizenship to vote.
Because there are a lot of people who want non-citizens to vote.

[jacksonbrown]

"The entire brouhaha started when dozens of polling places in minority areas were shut down by state governments, and then minorities trying to get rides to areas away from their homes were not allowed into the other polling places. "

Baloney, sold to the non-thinking MSM viewing dunderheads by the giant corporations and their major stock holders who benefit from political favors.

You wanna convice me then show me the citations. But, please omit the New York Times and Washington (Huffington) Post.

[John41]

Because there are a lot of people who want non-citizens to vote.

exactly!!!

[Bucco]

exactly!!!

I assume there will be a post or two to substantiate this claim, because while the claim is oft heard, NEVER saw anything that would remotely point to your conclusion.

If no substantiation, it is just bunk as it has been over the years.

We just had a government group formed in May 2017 to look into that. It was quietly disbanded with a reason that "the states refuse to cooperate". The basis for forming that group was never
Established beyond claims made during the campaign. Not one ever substantiated.

By the way, IF you can back up your post, you will stand first in line of any legitimate complaint.

Saying the same thing over and over does not make it true....simply speaks to the knowledge and motive of the accusers

[Buckeyephan]

No surprise that responses seem to be split along party lines. Personally, I don’t have a problem with absentee ballots. Those are requested and the envelope is signed and the signature must match the one the Board of Elections has on file.That is vastly different than mailing out ballots to all registered voters. Some of those may have died, moved or chosen not to vote. Those “extras” can be submitted by anyone who has access to them. Would those signatures be vetted? Harvesting ballots by operatives of either party presents opportunities to interfere during such a contentious election. If our country does transition to mail in ballots, the process needs to be carefully developed and implemented. I don’t feel we have enough time to create a fair and honest system in the time we have left until November. We should get started now for 2024.

As for proof of citizenship, I had to present my birth certificate when I registered in 1968. Until things changed in recent years, my husband and I managed to to vote on Election Day during regular voting hours. That included years when we worked full time and/or had small children. I do find it rather interesting that some people find a way to wait for hours to buy the latest Black Friday deal, video game, cell phone or sneakers. We seem to think nothing of waiting for hours to get on the latest ride at theme parks but are appalled by the thought of waiting in line to vote. Voting should be at least as important as those things.

Unfortunately, we need to prepare ourselves for the losing candidate and party to find an excuse other than the shortcomings of the candidate to explain away the loss. We will have a victim who will bombard us endlessly with whining about being cheated. These are very sad days for our country.

[xkeowner]

This has become a political thread if there has ever been one on this site! Close it and delete it!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No surprise that responses seem to be split along party lines. Personally, I don’t have a problem with absentee ballots. Those are requested and the envelope is signed and the signature must match the one the Board of Elections has on file.That is vastly different than mailing out ballots to all registered voters. Some of those may have died, moved or chosen not to vote. Those “extras” can be submitted by anyone who has access to them. Would those signatures be vetted? Harvesting ballots by operatives of either party presents opportunities to interfere during such a contentious election. If our country does transition to mail in ballots, the process needs to be carefully developed and implemented. I don’t feel we have enough time to create a fair and honest system in the time we have left until November. We should get started now for 2024.

As for proof of citizenship, I had to present my birth certificate when I registered in 1968. Until things changed in recent years, my husband and I managed to to vote on Election Day during regular voting hours. That included years when we worked full time and/or had small children. I do find it rather interesting that some people find a way to wait for hours to buy the latest Black Friday deal, video game, cell phone or sneakers. We seem to think nothing of waiting for hours to get on the latest ride at theme parks but are appalled by the thought of waiting in line to vote. Voting should be at least as important as those things.

Unfortunately, we need to prepare ourselves for the losing candidate and party to find an excuse other than the shortcomings of the candidate to explain away the loss. We will have a victim who will bombard us endlessly with whining about being cheated. These are very sad days for our country.

No one asked for my ID when I voted in the primaries this past year. In person, at the Paradise Rec Center. I gave them my name and address, they smiled and waved me over to another table, where a woman pointed to one of the empty spots at the table where I could fill in my ballot.

I didn't have to show ID or sign anything to match signatures, or give them my birthdate or anything else to indicate that I really was who I said I was.

[jebartle]

Let's be clear, mail-in voting is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with the concept. Never has been and never will be. The issue is verifying/validating that any given voter is authorized to vote and is who they say they are. If Congress (and the states) would take that issue seriously then we would not be talking about mail-in voting at all.

Talking about voter fraud: what system have we ever had that hasn't been decried for the potential for voter fraud? I'll admit there are elections that have been impacted due to voter fraud over the years but those are very few. In many, but not all, of those cases the votes were coerced yet legally cast.

In this whole debate we've lost sight of the facts which seems to be all too prevalent lately. When we don't have facts to support our position we make stuff up that can't be easily proven/disproven. When we have data but that data doesn't support our position we obfuscate the issue such that data becomes irrelevant and we appeal to emotions to supersede logic.

Those that have the legal right to vote should be allowed to vote by any means available. We should not be making it hard for anyone to vote as a means to influence elections. What we should be focusing on is using the vast array of technology available to us to ensure those who vote are entitled to vote and that their vote is in fact theirs. The reason we are not doing this is it removes an excuse for the losing side to obfuscate the facts and create uncertainty. This has not changed since the earliest days of elections in this great country. Bad actors have been trying to influence the will of the people through nefarious means since day one.

The simple fact that we are debating mail-in voting says the politicians have succeeded in planting seeds of doubt in the process without ever producing one single piece of data to prove that mail-in voting is the issue.

Praise the Lord, Amen, finally someone with a brain!!!!

[Bogie Shooter]

No, it doesn't. And thank you for your service!

However, when Willie Sutton was asked "Why do you rob banks?", his reply was "because that's where the money is."
Over the years, mail in voting was such a small percentage of the total vote that it wasn't worth the risk of committing voter fraud. With that percentage increasing greatly, I'm afraid it may become an easy target. I feel the same way about "early voting". Two or three days, yeah, OK, but 30 days? A lot can be revealed in 30 days prior to an election---perhaps a candidate might be charged with murder or rape. Sounds a little far fetched? Remember not to long ago a candidate could have (and IMHO should have) been charged with felony violation of the National Security Act. Once those early votes are cast, they can't be taken back. And 30 days gives plenty of time to run fraudulent votes through the system. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but is it worth the risk? We all know who benefits from the dead and repeat votes already.

No, we all don't know......who does benefit?

[Bucco]

What keeps circulating in my mind, remembering all the baseless charges over the past years, as relates to this phoney accusation....

If you don’t have anything nice or truthful to say, say it repeatedly.

[big guy]

A nationwide effort is underway in at least 16 states to overturn restrictions on mail-in voting and third-party ballot harvesting. States where suits have been filed include the swing states of Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

click here for the article
(https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/26/spygate-law-firm-that-attempted-to-overturn-2016-election-behind-2020-voting-lawsuits/)

If this is adjudicated in their favor then your ballot, which you lawfully and dutifully cast, can easily be compromised.

This article is too long and dreadfully verbose and confusing. Why should it be so hard to vote? It's a constitutional right! They know that there has been tampering with voting machines, there is less chance to tamper with voting by mail. It's been done since the civil war. Ballots are sent to every military personel in the US and abroad. No standing in line, no babysitter needed, no chance of being exposed to coronavirus. Those ballots are as safe as our Social Security checks, tax checks, personal checks, look at all the years we have paid bills by checks through the mail. We receive pay checks through the mail, transactions are carried on through the mail. Not safe? Baloney! A Democratic method of getting more votes? Double baloney!

There is evidence that demonstrates there is not a partisan advantage of voting by mail. While the availability of vote-by-mail ballots increases voter turnout by 1.9 to 2.4 percentage points, the voting method does not increase the share of turnout for either Democrats or Republicans, according to researchers.

A study by Stanford University’s Democracy and Polarization Lab compared counties with vote-by-mail programs to those without in the same state. The authors concluded that vote-by-mail programs have "no discernible effect on party vote shares or the partisan share of the electorate.”

Five states have all-mail elections: Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington. According to Ballotpedia, 29 states and DC allow voters to cast an absentee ballot for any reason, while 16 states require a valid excuse for requesting to mail in a ballot.

During the COVID-19 (coronavirus) pandemic, concerns about the safety of in-person polling places have been raised for the 2020 federal election in November, as well as for summer primary elections. At least 40 people who voted at the Milwaukee polls in Wisconsin's Apr. 7, 2020 primary election have tested positive for coronavirus, raising concerns that voters were forced to put their health at risk to participate in the election.

On Apr. 24, 2020, the governors of New York and Kentucky signed executive orders requiring that every resident be sent an application for vote-by-mail ballots for the states’ summer elections.

[bfoglbird]

The constitution doesn't require proof of citizenship or to present an ID to vote! Just saying....
Maybe it should????

[Marvic 1]

No, we all don't know......who does benefit?

The one's that are asking for mail in voting that who, somethings up their sleeves....

[TexaninVA]

Being retired Military, I voted absentee over my career. Was my vote suspicious and should it have been considered fraud? :ohdear:

There's a big difference between absentee ballots (i.e. you have to request one) vs mass mailouts of ballots. Apples v oranges ...

[Bucco]

There's a big difference between absentee ballots (i.e. you have to request one) vs mass mailouts of ballots. Apples v oranges ...

1. With respect, please allow an explanation of the difference ??

2. Since since there was mail voting, no fraud has happened, although accusation have been leveled with never any substance, so what is the basis for rejecting a method to allow more Americans to vote ?

3. Back before Twitter, Facebook, etc., there was no system for mail in voting. Now we are told Facebook and Twitter are vital.....why label mail in voting as a bad thing ?

4. Why is more participation in our system a bad thing?

5. Why, since the established commission to investigate improper voting was disbanded after 5 months, and the claim of millions of immigrants has been proven to. Be totally false, are we still looking in the haystack ?

[Lindsyburnsy]

I agree that we should all be able to vote by mail. I for one have no desire to wait in long lines for who knows how long, when I can easily drop my ballot in the mail, and now with COVID 19, why on earth would you want to. I do however, believe the vote should be counted as long as it is postmarked before voting begins. My son lived overseas and he didn't get his ballot in time, even though he requested it way in advance. Michigan has already sent out a request form if you desire an absentee ballot. This seems to make much sense. Glad postage will also be included.
Voting by mail has been going on for years in some states and there hasn't been any reports of abuse, fraud, etc. There was a "voter fraud" commission set up a couple years ago and was dismantled because there was no evidence of fraud or abuse.

I am not against mail in ballots. However, I think that there should be a requirement that they should be requested. That way a need is expressed, a current address is provided, and an opportunity to insure that the requester is properly registered can be verified.

Simply mailing to everybody creates an needless opportunity for confusion and abuse.

From the beginning of this country, voting has been a right that must be personally performed. Choosing not to vote is your decision. A vote should be private. Nobody should know my vote. All votes should be collected by the vote deadline. Votes delivered after the vote deadline should be nullified. Otherwise my vote is essentially known.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Your signature is your proof as long as it matches up with whatever form that was used to register to vote.

The constitution doesn't require proof of citizenship or to present an ID to vote! Just saying....
Maybe it should????

[Bucco]

Just for the record....

Seventeen states require voters to provide an excuse for voting by absentee ballot.

Twenty-eight states and the District of Columbia offer no-excuse absentee voting.

Five states have elections that are held by mail-in ballot.

These states have jurisdiction over voting, thus what is suggested be done and when to overhaul something that has been successful always ?

This is a proven, secure system, and the outcry is extremely....let’s say..suspicious and seems to be a “reason in advance”

[mtdjed]

1. With respect, please allow an explanation of the difference ??

A request for a absentee ballot shows a need, mass mailout goes to every registered voter but could end up in the wrong address.

2. Since since there was mail voting, no fraud has happened, although accusation have been leveled with never any substance, so what is the basis for rejecting a method to allow more Americans to vote ?

Your statement that no fraud has happened is simply wrong.

3. Back before Twitter, Facebook, etc., there was no system for mail in voting. Now we are told Facebook and Twitter are vital.....why label mail in voting as a bad thing ?

What does mail in voting have to do with Twitter or Facebook

4. Why is more participation in our system a bad thing?

More participation is not a bad thing if it is done correctly.

5. Why, since the established commission to investigate improper voting was disbanded after 5 months, and the claim of millions of immigrants has been proven to. Be totally false, are we still looking in the haystack ?

Properly done, mail in can be OK , but simply changing rules and mailing out ballots without a well planned system will lead to problems. Think of the possibilities. A ballot is mailed to a dead person. What happens to it? A ballot is mailed to the wrong address. What happens to it? The possibilities are endless.

In summary , more is not better if it is controlled.

[Marvic 1]

2. Since since there was mail voting, no fraud has happened, although accusation have been leveled with never any substance, so what is the basis for rejecting a method to allow more Americans to vote ?

My post keeps getting deleted by the Admin regarding my input into FRAUD with paper voting so I have to keep it satisfactory to their liking level....
So all I can say is no truth to YOUR OPINION on mail fraud, there are plenty of video explaining fraud by both sides of the aisle...
What right do we have at this time to test and conduct a National Election for President of the United States with a procedure that have not been proven to be reliable. Maybe later next year test this action of voting on a local level election before moving onto bigger national things..

[mtdjed]

The entire brouhaha started when dozens of polling places in minority areas were shut down by state governments, and then minorities trying to get rides to areas away from their homes were not allowed into the other polling places. Some disabled people were instructed to NOT get on the bus that would take them to a distant polling area.

In some states, there were only 2-3 polling areas in an entire county to serve hundreds of thousands of people, because the GOVERNMENT shut down the other polling places ON Election Day.

Meanwhile, in states where absentee voting was allowed, voting took place anyway. And NO confirmed mail fraud AT ALL in those areas.

The red herring is the notion that mail fraud is even a thing with absentee voting. It isn't.

Can you provide the sites where only 2 or 3 polling areas are available to serve hundreds of thousand of people? I tried to google it and could not find such areas. I can imagine some areas such as Alaska, Montana etc where distance are so great and population low that would be best served by absentee voting.

You mistake absentee voting (which is a request for a ballot) with the mass mailing that was the topic. Absentee voting is absolutely OK.

My experience in Florida Voting is that I am asked to ID myself, which I do with my drivers license. It is swiped and matched to the voter registration list. If I am matched to the list i am given a ballot. I vote . Not a hard system. I just do not want some stray ballot arriving at some residence thru mass mailing to be used to negate my ballot.

[Clarinet]

For the many seasonal residents of the Villages a mail-in absentee ballot is essential. Otherwise we would be deprived of our right to vote.

[jacksonbrown]

"Your signature is your proof as long as it matches up with whatever form that was used to register to vote."

So, who (or what) determines if the signature "matches up"?

In my former state of residence, at the state level the (state) constitution mandates that the state elections office will be filled by appointment, which results in appointments from the current party of the current governor.

And, at the precinct level, the precinct judge (head of that precinct) AND a majority of the precinct judges had to be the same as the current party of the governor.

So, who (what) determines if the mail-in ballot is verifiable?

The current party in power.

As a county chairperson, on election day, I went from precinct to precinct, looking for irregularities. I personally witnessed the current Clerk Of Court delivering "voters" to exercise their constitutional right to vote. Of course, they were of the same party as the Clerk Of Court.

This is the same county where the brother of a county commissioner was sent to prison for "buying" votes.

[Windguy]

We had mail-in ballots in CO. Every registered voter got one without asking. It was so much easier to vote in your living room while reading the issues pamphlet. I never once heard any complaints about voter fraud.

[Cheapbas]

When Michigan sent out “applications” for a mail in ballot, they were checking the signatures on the Returned envelope to the ones on file with the original voter registration. So, Where’s the room for fraud? This is what banks have been using to dispense cash in your account for a hundred years.

[wiltma]

That is the case in Florida

[retiredguy123]

When Michigan sent out “applications” for a mail in ballot, they were checking the signatures on the Returned envelope to the ones on file with the original voter registration. So, Where’s the room for fraud? This is what banks have been using to dispense cash in your account for a hundred years.
Banks only require a signature on paper checks and they don't even look at them. But, most withdrawals are made using a credit card, debit card, or ATM machine. A signature is almost never required. Did Michigan arrest and prosecute the people who forged signatures on ballots?

[Bucco]

My post keeps getting deleted by the Admin regarding my input into FRAUD with paper voting so I have to keep it satisfactory to their liking level....
So all I can say is no truth to YOUR OPINION on mail fraud, there are plenty of video explaining fraud by both sides of the aisle...
What right do we have at this time to test and conduct a National Election for President of the United States with a procedure that have not been proven to be reliable. Maybe later next year test this action of voting on a local level election before moving onto bigger national things..

I certainly am not looking for "video". You can perform a search on YouTube and get a video on any subject under the moon. If fraud has been so prevelant, there has to be reams of documentation, prosecution and the like in court records.

This mail in system is not new....was not simply invented recently. Millions of illegal immigrants did not vote or get ballots in the last election. Fraud is not rampant, or even close.

No test required...this system works and is proven safe.

[ithos]

When Michigan sent out “applications” for a mail in ballot, they were checking the signatures on the Returned envelope to the ones on file with the original voter registration. So, Where’s the room for fraud? This is what banks have been using to dispense cash in your account for a hundred years.

I emphasized "mass mail in voting". Not traditional absentee voting in which fraud is much more difficult due to the limited number of times it is used. And signature verification for millions of votes is a problematic for obvious reasons. It is no substitute for ID verification. It also does not stop ballot harvesting, vote buying, voter intimidation, duplicate voting and so on.

Shouldn't every vote count? If so that means ensuring the integrity of the process. Voter rolls are notoriously infected with dead voters, people who have moved and so on. There are many instances where the number of people registered greatly exceed the number of eligible voters. So that means umpteen thousands of invalid ballots will be sent out in many congressional districts. And many will go to the wrong address.

Is it too much to ask for people who are able to show up once or twice a year at a local polling place to ensure that every valid vote counts? The answer is yes if you want to facilitate fraudulent elections.

It is a simple concept. The easier it is to cheat and get away with it, the more tainted elections we will have. Especially in these times where the principle of "ends justifies the means" is embraced by an increasingly radicalized Democratic Party.

In Orange County – once seen as a Republican stronghold in the state– every House seat went to a Democrat after an unprecedented “250,000” vote-by-mail drop-offs were counted, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.

“People were carrying in stacks of 100 and 200 of them. We had had multiple people calling to ask if these people were allowed to do this,” Kelley said.

[Earlride]

Mail in voting has been one disaster after another. The latest California debacle is just the latest.

[rrlavigne]

Fact's are, mail in voting has always been there, it's part of the system. And right now where a lot of people are rightfully afraid to be around others it's an important tool to our democracy. And voter suppression is very real and in full force here!

[FredJacobs]

Many of you may not be old enough to remember when all Social Security checks were sent by mail. Checks for the entire nation were all mailed on the same day every month (I believe it was the last day of the month). A few days later, mail boxes were broken into so that thieves could steal and cash the checks.

I feel that if a mass mailing to every one in a state is sent a ballot, many will be stolen, filled out by cheats, fraudulently signed and submitted. I do believe that a ballot will only be sent to registered voters, but I do not believe that someone will check the authenticity of the signature on every single mail-in ballot. If so, it would takes weeks before a winner is determined.

What happens when I recognize that I haven't received my ballot? Do I call the Election Commissioner and complain? They may tell me that it was delayed in the mail, wait a few days. Or, depending on whether or not they record ballots received when they come in (they would have to open the ballots to do so) they may say, "You voted already, we received it." Depending on my age and my memory I may accept that. What if I tell them that I haven't voted, will they send me a duplicate ballot?

In the words of Yul Brynner as the King of Siam, "et cetera, et cetera and so forth!" There are many opportunities for fraud. Why take a chance. I don't want to disparage anyone or any place but remember the slogan - Vote Early, Vote Often.

[Andyb]

Mail in ballots will create fraud a an unbelievable rate, already proven, dozens of cases already. Need voter ID too.

[soniak4@gmail.com]

GoPacers, you are spot on!! There would be very little need for mail-in voting, as there has been in the past, if people were guaranteed an opportunity to vote in person without having to travel for hours to a polling facility because the one most convenient for them has been closed, specifically to suppress the vote!! I have witnessed that in my voting history and it was more than evident in the 2018 election. Every citizen in this country, unless regulated by law, has the right to vote and access to a process to vote that is fair, convenient and easy. To make any change to that, must be unlawful. Unfortunately, today’s politicians find that it is necessary to manipulate processes and systems to ensure they win. I hate what has happened and continues to happen to our country.

[Cheapbas]

Banks only require a signature on paper checks and they don't even look at them. But, most withdrawals are made using a credit card, debit card, or ATM machine. A signature is almost never required. Did Michigan arrest and prosecute the people who forged signatures on ballots?

You are completely missing my point. We are not talking about debit cards, we are talking about a long time proven practice of matching signatures to validate a document. And yes the banks DO CHECK signatures.

[LSTOWELL]

I am not against mail in ballots. However, I think that there should be a requirement that they should be requested. That way a need is expressed, a current address is provided, and an opportunity to insure that the requester is properly registered can be verified.

Simply mailing to everybody creates an needless opportunity for confusion and abuse.

From the beginning of this country, voting has been a right that must be personally performed. Choosing not to vote is your decision. A vote should be private. Nobody should know my vote. All votes should be collected by the vote deadline. Votes delivered after the vote deadline should be nullified. Otherwise my vote is essentially known.
You have to request one.. application to request one is what is mailed out..voted like this in Florida 14 years..

[PhillyJC]

Original poster thank you for the most thoughtful post I have ever read in this site!

[guppyvii]

I was registered in Leon county Florida and voted by mail while working abroad for the DOD. My ballot came addressed to me by name, I had to sign my ballot and it stated the signature had to match my voters registration card on file. Once sealed I had to sign again across the flap. Then I could track my vote online a see when it was received and counted. That’s a lot of steps to prevent fraud IMHO. I felt confident in the system.

[Bucco]

Mail in ballots will create fraud a an unbelievable rate, already proven, dozens of cases already. Need voter ID too.

You really should provide a link or details on at least one of the "dozens" of cases you know of.

[ithos]

Fact's are, mail in voting has always been there, it's part of the system. And right now where a lot of people are rightfully afraid to be around others it's an important tool to our democracy. And voter suppression is very real and in full force here!

How is it voter suppression when any eligible voter can request an absentee ballot if they have a valid reason?

Once again, absentee voting is worlds apart from mass mailing of ballots based on incredibly inaccurate and poorly maintained voter databases.

Voter suppression is a canard to mask the attempts to steal elections.

[Bethwill]

That's the difference between ABSENTEE ballots and MAIL IN. We already have ABSENTEE ballots so there us no need for Mail ins.

[Pedrocarrasco01@yahoo.com]

My concern is that a ballot is/should be like money. If you are "eligible" you are entitled to one. You go to the polls and show your ID and receive one. If you go a second time, the record would show that you already had your one vote. If you request a mail in ballot , you get one. There should not be an uncontrolled mass distribution sent to "Current Residents" like an advertisement.
If states can insure the control of such ballots to insure the one per person rule is maintained in each voting district, show the plan. Show how all districts are prepared to verify, count and report results in a timely manner. No bags showing up weeks later.
Mandatory Voter ID Required, if you can go to the Grocery Store, you can go Vote in person, if you are out of the area on Voting day request an absentee ballot, (note they are only counted on close elections) With the Post Office handling the mail, you will see a lot of abnormality including late ballots and lost ballots, the USPS is NOT UPS or FeDex the last two are examples of private sector versus Government, private sector gets it done while Government runs massive deficits each year!!!!!!!!

[kenoc7]

Mail in ballots are considered suspect.
They are only scrutinized and counted when the election is close enough.
Hence the big to do a couple of years ago when the ballots from overseas military were late being delivered and returned.

This isn't true. Five states, including some red states, have successfully been using mail in voting for years with fraud less than 0.00004%.

[ithos]

I think it is OR that uses vote by mail totally. Voter fraud is not an issue. I don’t know if it is still true but in CO you could not buy liquor on Election Day, as a way to combat apparent voter fraud. Voter fraud and vote by mail appears to be an issue because the person with the bully pulpit is saying it is but without proof.

EXCLUSIVE: Voter fraud in Palm Beach County: State attorney finds crimes, but no suspect - News - The Palm Beach Post - West Palm Beach, FL (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/palm-beach-county-voter-fraud-state-attorney-finds-crimes-suspect/buShkHum7thKuTKE8F69QO/)

Anyone with any integrity and access to google could verify hundreds of investigations like this every election cycle. Voter fraud is real and undeniable. The key point is not whether voter fraud happens but that it will happen on a much grander scale with the rules of mass mail in voting and ballot harvesting such as in CA. That is because it makes it virtually impossible to identify and prosecute the criminals.

And you definitely won't see it with your political blinders on.

State officials are planning to examine about 20 Detroit precincts where ballot boxes opened during the recount had fewer ballots than poll workers had recorded on Election Day.

Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/)

[ColdNoMore]

This isn't true. Five states, including some red states, have successfully been using mail in voting for years with fraud less than 0.00004%.

Rutrow, you're inserting actual facts...into a discussion.

Get ready to be bombarded...with personal attacks. :ohdear:

[72lions]

I am not against mail in ballots. However, I think that there should be a requirement that they should be requested. That way a need is expressed, a current address is provided, and an opportunity to insure that the requester is properly registered can be verified.

Simply mailing to everybody creates an needless opportunity for confusion and abuse.

From the beginning of this country, voting has been a right that must be personally performed. Choosing not to vote is your decision. A vote should be private. Nobody should know my vote. All votes should be collected by the vote deadline. Votes delivered after the vote deadline should be nullified. Otherwise my vote is essentially known.

Are you aware that five states conduct their elections entirely by mail ballot and the incident of fraud is less than 100th of 1%. And, virtually every state has allowed voters to vote by mail should they choose to for decades. There is no, I repeat no evidence that mail balloting is fraught with more fraud than any other method. Those responsible for county and state elections have documented this time and time again. The current brouhaha is just another example of fake news perpetuated by the White House.

[72lions]

Mail in ballots are considered suspect.
They are only scrutinized and counted when the election is close enough.
Hence the big to do a couple of years ago when the ballots from overseas military were late being delivered and returned.

Sorry but this is incorrect. All ballots are counted and, there are 5 states where all votes are cast by mail.

[sloanst]

There are 1.5 million more registered voters in LA county than there are adult residents. 1.5 million ballots for deceased people and people that have moved elsewhere. California as Motor/Voter. When one gets a driver's license, they are automatically registered to vote. California passed a law that allows illegal immigrants to get valid California driver's licenses. You tell me if there is a chance that those non-citizens are allowed to vote or not. California is being pro-active in mailing out ballots. In your opinion, is there a greater chance for voter fraud than before? :shocked::MOJE_whot::ohdear::faint::22yikes::boom:

[davem4616]

I'm okay with mail in (or absentee) ballots...I've used them in the past a few times when I knew that I'd be traveling on election day

what I'm not okay with is 'mass mailing' ballots out to everyone just because their name is on the voting list

If you're an independent, what ballot do you get in the primary (or do you even get to vote unless you declare yourself to a party)

Today, if you want to mail in your vote, individuals can request a mail in ballot....that's referred to as "a pull"

just "pushing" ballots out to everyone is what I take exception to...the present process for maintaining accurate voting lists are inconsistent and many communities may lack the necessary oversight

the voter lists aren't always accurate and up to date
the process for tallying and recording mail in ballots are most likely unable to handle the volume in a timely fashion if everyone voted by mail....so we'd wait a couple of days to know who won....heck that what it was like in Lincoln's era

I'm for keeping the voting process the way it's been done in the past

[robaldsc@hotmail.com]

Ballots are not mailed to everyone. What is being mailed is an application for a ballot

[ithos]

Are you aware that five states conduct their elections entirely by mail ballot and the incident of fraud is less than 100th of 1%. And, virtually every state has allowed voters to vote by mail should they choose to for decades. There is no, I repeat no evidence that mail balloting is fraught with more fraud than any other method. Those responsible for county and state elections have documented this time and time again. The current brouhaha is just another example of fake news perpetuated by the White House.

It is absurd to think that the amount of fraud can be determined when every single vote cast has a broken chain of custody. I am sure most of the elections were fairly accurate. But as seen in California, a tsunami of ballot harvested votes counted after election day wiped out large GOP leads for four Congressional races.

And for those who think that Voter ID is racist should look in a mirror.

Results and policy lessons
Researchers found that notifications about voter ID requirements did not negatively impact voter turnout, and may have actually increased turnout.

The Effects of Voter ID Notification on Voter Turnout in the United States | The Abdul Latif Jameel Poverty Action Lab (https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/effects-voter-id-notification-voter-turnout-united-states)

[GoPacers]

There are 1.5 million more registered voters in LA county than there are adult residents. 1.5 million ballots for deceased people and people that have moved elsewhere. California as Motor/Voter. When one gets a driver's license, they are automatically registered to vote. California passed a law that allows illegal immigrants to get valid California driver's licenses. You tell me if there is a chance that those non-citizens are allowed to vote or not. California is being pro-active in mailing out ballots. In your opinion, is there a greater chance for voter fraud than before? :shocked::MOJE_whot::ohdear::faint::22yikes::boom:

I'm not sure where you get your data but try again (or cite your references).

There are 7,851,531 adults living in LA County as of Feb 2020. You'll have to do a little math but here is the population pyramid by age (https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-counties/ca/los-angeles-county-population/). You can also just simply google "How many adults live in Los Angeles County?" and it comes back with the referenced number with a link to the worldpopulation review web site.

There are 4.3M registered voters in LA County (Elections & Voting (https://lacounty.gov/government/elections-voting/)).

It would seem there are nearly $3.5M more adults in LA County than there are registered voters. I will agree that proactively mailing out ballots is a blatant attempt to encourage more people to vote (:o). I'm not sure why that would be a problem when the # of registered voters is slightly more than 55% of the adult population.

I'll also agree that getting more registered voters in LA County is more likely to benefit Democrats given that Democrats outnumber Republicans by a 2:1 margin (approximately) in LA County.

I think it's great that California (and all other states) try to increase the number of registered voters and that they encourage more people to vote. That's how a democracy works. Thankfully, we have an electoral college that ensures the most populous states (i.e. CA, NY, IL) don't elect the President by rendering the votes in many, many other states meaningless.

Anyway, in the immortal words of Joe Friday: "Just the facts...!"

[nn0wheremann]

County election officials should at least do canvases. We bought our house. Four years ago. They still send voter registration materials to the former owners, who moved to New York, and the post office keeps delivering these. I mark the canvas cards return to sender, addressee moved out of state, and put them back in the mail, but no one gives a hoot.

[Alana33]

I am registered to vote by mail here in FL. I am grateful to be able to execute my constitutional right, safely, in the privacy of my home, especially during these times of a pandemic.
Due to back issues, there is no way I can stand and wait in long lines to VOTE.
I have a voter ID and my signature must match my voter registration.
Voting by mail during an outbreak of a deadly virus should be a no - brainer.
As I recall during the 2016 election, electronic voting machines were targets of hacking and manipulation.
You can choose whether to go in person to vote or mail in your ballot.
Stay safe.

[sallybowron]

"I am not against mail in ballots. However, I think that there should be a requirement that they should be requested. That way a need is expressed, a current address is provided, and an opportunity to insure that the requester is properly registered can be verified." I think all voters should be vetted before they are given the right to vote.

[Bucco]

"I am not against mail in ballots. However, I think that there should be a requirement that they should be requested. That way a need is expressed, a current address is provided, and an opportunity to insure that the requester is properly registered can be verified." I think all voters should be vetted before they are given the right to vote.

What “vetting” would you add to the existing vetting ?

[ColdNoMore]

The dark underbelly secret of the 'anti-mail ballot' crowd, is the fact that their goal is to minimize the number of people...who can exercise their Constitutional right.

Everyone knows the primary demographic of those who have a harder problem getting to a voting location...and standing in line for hours.

Add a pandemic, that also targets this same demographic more than others, and even someone with just a modicum of intelligence can see...what is the real impetus for those who are against mail-in voting.

[graciegirl]

The dark underbelly secret of the 'anti-mail ballot' crowd, is the fact that their goal is to minimize the number of people...who can exercise their Constitutional right.

Everyone knows the primary demographic of those who have a harder problem getting to a voting location...and standing in line for hours.

Add a pandemic, that also targets this same demographic more than others, and even someone with just a modicum of intelligence can see...what is the real impetus for those who are against mail-in voting.

You think it is to hush old people? Really? I thought it was to eliminate the newly arrived, without drivers licenses and stuff like that. Oh wait. are there sides here? I think that carefully checking all ballots against information that is important, such as being an alive human, is very important. When the stimulus checks were sent out some folks got two and some didn't get any...…… Let alone all that mix up with money not available for those who want to collect unemployment instead of working...…..I didn't mean THAT....

[ColdNoMore]

The dark underbelly secret of the 'anti-mail ballot' crowd, is the fact that their goal is to minimize the number of people...who can exercise their Constitutional right.

Everyone knows the primary demographic of those who have a harder problem getting to a voting location...and standing in line for hours.

Add a pandemic, that also targets this same demographic more than others, and even someone with just a modicum of intelligence can see...what is the real impetus for those who are against mail-in voting.

It looks like the obvious, isn't so obvious after all, for those (who like with the Floyd tragedy) purposely turn their backs, close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and screech....nah-nah-nah-nah. :1rotfl:

I apologize for making it too complicated for some folks...my bad. :oops:

[ithos]

The dark underbelly secret of the 'anti-mail ballot' crowd, is the fact that their goal is to minimize the number of people...who can exercise their Constitutional right.

Everyone knows the primary demographic of those who have a harder problem getting to a voting location...and standing in line for hours.

Add a pandemic, that also targets this same demographic more than others, and even someone with just a modicum of intelligence can see...what is the real impetus for those who are against mail-in voting.

Oh the low expectations of soft bigotry.

Are you saying that there is a certain "demographic" that is less capable of requesting a mail-in ballot?

It is the vulnerabilities of mass mailing and ballot harvesting to fraud that is the primary issue.

And as a superhero, shouldn't you be up in Atlanta protecting the rioters and looters from the police?

[ColdNoMore]

Oh the low expectations of soft bigotry.

Are you saying that there is a certain "demographic" that is less capable of requesting mail in ballot?

It is the vulnerabilities of mass mailing and ballot harvesting to fraud that is the primary issue.

Given that there has NEVER been proof of any widespread fraud in mail-in voting...your attempted distraction is simply a logical fallacy.



And as a superhero, shouldn't you be up in Atlanta protecting the rioters and looters from the police?
Nice try, but as I've stated many times, I have absolutely ZERO TOLERANCE...for those who commit violence, looting or other crimes.

However, if I could have but one super power, it would be the ability to change the color of certain folks skin and then check back in with them later...to see if they still think the same. ;)

[Snorkl46]

If banks do check signatures, they do a terrible job. I know for a fact that checks have cleared without verification.

[Chi-Town]

You think it is to hush old people? Really? I thought it was to eliminate the newly arrived, without drivers licenses and stuff like that. Oh wait. are there sides here? I think that carefully checking all ballots against information that is important, such as being an alive human, is very important. When the stimulus checks were sent out some folks got two and some didn't get any...…… Let alone all that mix up with money not available for those who want to collect unemployment instead of working...…..I didn't mean THAT....

You may have missed the the demographic that was being referenced. Or maybe not.

.

[Bucco]

You think it is to hush old people? Really? I thought it was to eliminate the newly arrived, without drivers licenses and stuff like that. Oh wait. are there sides here? I think that carefully checking all ballots against information that is important, such as being an alive human, is very important. When the stimulus checks were sent out some folks got two and some didn't get any...…… Let alone all that mix up with money not available for those who want to collect unemployment instead of working...…..I didn't mean THAT....

I believe what you suggest be done is done in all states, and pretty much has been unquestionably safe and secure.

We all know the reason for this discussion, and we just circumnavigate instead of being honest.

When our government established the commission to look into "millions of illegal immigrants voting" namely in California...that was great. The commission lasted 5 months, and as with every indecpendent, federal, state or local investigation, mail in ballots were found to be much more secure than machines.

In addition, the biggest threat to voting is outside our borders, but we seem to ignore that area,where we have proof of interference and tampering.

[ithos]

Given that there has NEVER been proof of any widespread fraud in mail-in voting...your attempted distraction is simply a logical fallacy.
However, if I could have but one super power, it would be the ability to change the color of certain folks skin and then check back in with them later...to see if they still think the same. [/SIZE] ;)

Mail in voting is legal in FL. It just requires an application.No reason needed. Not sure why you believe people of color are not as capable as others and as such warrants the need for mass mailing of ballots. But hey, if virtue signaling gives you a sense of purpose in life, I'll leave it be.

As far as elections go, the standard should not be an wait until an election is stolen and can be proven beyond any doubt. Since every vote should be considered sacrosanct, the goal should be not one will be negated by corruption or fraud.

And considering that voter rolls across this country are bloated with the dead, illegals, wrong addresses and folks that have moved on, it should require no explanation that mass mail balloting would significantly increase the chances of illegal voting. Especially if you have paid agents to harvest as many ballots as they can.

The evidence of mail in voter fraud is all over the internet. Making it mandatory for everyone is about as stupid as stupid gets. Unless of course you are looking to throw an election.

“absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform , co chaired by Jimmy Carter

Debbie Wasserman Schulz Says Mail In Ballots Are Dangerous Former DNC Chair Says Mail In Ballots Are Dangerous - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=HFFsjYnOTXg&feature=emb_logo)

Mismanaged voter rolls leave counties open for voter fraud Mismanaged voter rolls leave counties open for voter fraud, advocacy group finds - South Florida Sun Sentinel - South Florida Sun-Sentinel (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-palm-voter-errors-flagged-20191107-73lo4tz5yvgb5pahxsw3z5b4oe-story.html)

" In 2016, more mail ballots were misdirected to wrong addresses or unaccounted for than the number of votes separating Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. She led by 2.9 million votes, yet 6.5 million ballots were misdirected or unaccounted for by the states."

The Wisconsin Election Commission’s report on the Spring Election found that the morning after Election Day, a United States Postal Service official reported that workers “had located ‘three tubs’ of absentee ballots
https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections.wi.gov/files/2020-05/April%202020%20Absentee%20Voting%20Report.pdf

Officials Plead Guilty in New York Voter Fraud Case Officials Plead Guilty in New York Voter Fraud Case | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/officials-plead-guilty-in-new-york-voter-fraud-case)

And this just the tip of the iceberg. If there is to be unrestricted mail in voting then it should be requested each election and without any influence from shady ballot harvesters.

[ColdNoMore]

Mail in voting is legal in FL. It just requires an application.No reason needed. Not sure why you believe people of color are not as capable as others and as such warrants the need for mass mailing of ballots. But hey, if virtue signaling gives you a sense of purpose in life, I'll leave it be.

As far as elections go, the standard should not be an wait until an election is stolen and can be proven beyond any doubt. Since every vote should be considered sacrosanct, the goal should be not one will be negated by corruption or fraud.

And considering that voter rolls across this country are bloated with the dead, illegals, wrong addresses and folks that have moved on, it should require no explanation that mass mail balloting would significantly increase the chances of illegal voting. Especially if you have paid agents to harvest as many ballots as they can.

The evidence of mail in voter fraud is all over the internet. Making it mandatory for everyone is about as stupid as stupid gets. Unless of course you are looking to throw an election.

“absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform , co chaired by Jimmy Carter

Debbie Wasserman Schulz Says Mail In Ballots Are Dangerous Former DNC Chair Says Mail In Ballots Are Dangerous - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=HFFsjYnOTXg&feature=emb_logo)

Mismanaged voter rolls leave counties open for voter fraud Mismanaged voter rolls leave counties open for voter fraud, advocacy group finds - South Florida Sun Sentinel - South Florida Sun-Sentinel (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-palm-voter-errors-flagged-20191107-73lo4tz5yvgb5pahxsw3z5b4oe-story.html)

" In 2016, more mail ballots were misdirected to wrong addresses or unaccounted for than the number of votes separating Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. She led by 2.9 million votes, yet 6.5 million ballots were misdirected or unaccounted for by the states."

The Wisconsin Election Commission’s report on the Spring Election found that the morning after Election Day, a United States Postal Service official reported that workers “had located ‘three tubs’ of absentee ballots
https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections.wi.gov/files/2020-05/April%202020%20Absentee%20Voting%20Report.pdf

Officials Plead Guilty in New York Voter Fraud Case Officials Plead Guilty in New York Voter Fraud Case | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/officials-plead-guilty-in-new-york-voter-fraud-case)

And this just the tip of the iceberg. If there is to be unrestricted mail in voting then it should be requested each election and without any influence from shady ballot harvesters.

The highlighted portion in your post above (if it's "all over" the internet, it must be true) made me laugh out loud...so thanx for that. :1rotfl:

Since Post #5 pretty much says it the way I see it, I'll post it...so it saves me a lot of work. :ho:


Let's be clear, mail-in voting is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with the concept. Never has been and never will be. The issue is verifying/validating that any given voter is authorized to vote and is who they say they are. If Congress (and the states) would take that issue seriously then we would not be talking about mail-in voting at all.

Talking about voter fraud: what system have we ever had that hasn't been decried for the potential for voter fraud? I'll admit there are elections that have been impacted due to voter fraud over the years but those are very few. In many, but not all, of those cases the votes were coerced yet legally cast.

In this whole debate we've lost sight of the facts which seems to be all too prevalent lately. When we don't have facts to support our position we make stuff up that can't be easily proven/disproven. When we have data but that data doesn't support our position we obfuscate the issue such that data becomes irrelevant and we appeal to emotions to supersede logic.

Those that have the legal right to vote should be allowed to vote by any means available. We should not be making it hard for anyone to vote as a means to influence elections. What we should be focusing on is using the vast array of technology available to us to ensure those who vote are entitled to vote and that their vote is in fact theirs. The reason we are not doing this is it removes an excuse for the losing side to obfuscate the facts and create uncertainty. This has not changed since the earliest days of elections in this great country. Bad actors have been trying to influence the will of the people through nefarious means since day one.

The simple fact that we are debating mail-in voting says the politicians have succeeded in planting seeds of doubt in the process without ever producing one single piece of data to prove that mail-in voting is the issue.

[mtdjed]

A lot of discussion here not related to Mass Mailing of Ballots which was my original intent. Absentee voting OK fine but please don't send unsolicited to all registered voters. Have a plan to get to currently registered voters.

Responses stating that there has never been any illicit voting through mail in votes are not true. Suggesting that bringing up the topic is supporting an attempt to limit voter participation is wrong. I just want my legitimate vote to count without having it negated by a ballot that was sent a dead person that got intercepted by someone at that address and used illegally. Nothing to do with voter suppression. If your voter mass mailing does not address that issue , it is not protecting legitimate votes.

But , from the responses I have seen, many don't seem to be concerned. They seem to think that is suggesting that voting polling places should be limited to 2 or 3 per hundreds of thousands of people. (not substantiated)

[ColdNoMore]

The notices mailed out, simply told people that they had the right to vote by mail...it wasn't a ballot. :oops:

Just like the Founding Fathers, I'm much more worried of foreign powers...interfering and screwing with our elections.

Since nothing official has been mentioned on fighting that in a long time...I can't help but wonder what steps are being taken to stop it?

[llmcdaniel]

Oregon has used strictly vote by mail for 20 years. When one first registers, a signature and picture ID are required. When people marry, die, change addresses, etc. this info is forwarded to the Elections Dept of that county. When my mother died, we notified the Elections Dept with a Death Certificate so that her name was removed. The funeral home provided us with a paper of all the organizations that needed notification, and the Election Dept was on that list. We were told, also, that death notices in the local paper were used for info, too. We always appreciated being able to comfortably sit at home, study our voter’s pamphlet, and vote. Then, we signed the secret envelope, our signature was compared with the original, and we were through. It was easy to see that no one else had voted using our name, AND we had oaper back ups to help prevent fraud. None of this hanging chad crap!!

[Lindsyburnsy]

"Lots of people" "many people are saying" "I hear from everyone" Who are all of these "people" that want non-citizens to vote? This is all BS. Rumor and scare tactics. Voting by mail is the way to go.

[ithos]

The highlighted portion in your post above (if it's "all over" the internet, it must be true) made me laugh out loud...so thanx for that. :1rotfl:


Most of the news we see these days are from the internet. The sources I cited were extremely credible which is why you try to dismiss it with a lame attempt at humor. People read your posts on the internet. Does that mean your opinions have no credibility?

You had to respond in this fashion because you could not refute or debunk any story I listed as they were credible and non partisan websites.

But here is another one that just happened recently. You are going to have to use the internet to read it. It is ironclad proof of how elections can be corrupted with mail in ballots. And the aggrieved are overwhelmingly in the class of people that you claim to be the guardian over.

NJ NAACP Leader Calls For Paterson Mail-In Vote to Be Canceled Amid Corruption Claims – NBC New York (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/nj-naacp-leader-calls-for-paterson-mail-in-vote-to-be-canceled-amid-fraud-claims/2435162/?fbclid=IwAR0VTFze-rm8-_LHp4SvfvnSXwl1iUpugTsiYn_zAZEqDoiDYrSuaUBMm1U)

Paterson activist Ernest Rucker said his experience this election is an example of the kind of corruption that allegedly took place. Rucker said he never received a ballot but that election records show someone mailed in a ballot in his name.

In addition to apparent problems with the vote count in Paterson, NBC New York has shown video of ballots left out in building lobbies, of one voter handling many ballots, and reported on postal workers reporting finding hundreds of ballots at a time stuffed in mailboxes in Paterson – and even in a neighboring town, Haledon.

Wimberly said he is a supporter of Gov. Murphy but given the history of vote-by-mail controversies, the governor should have done more to allow in-person voting and to ensure safeguards were in place for those ballots sent by mail. That one in five ballots were eliminated, some due to alleged corruption, Wimberly said he was "fed up with this … That’s how you disenfranchise voters. That’s the bottom line.

“It is what is right for the people,” Wimberly said. “We need in-person voting machines with social distancing.

If you desire vote by mail elections free of fraud and incompetence, the solution is simple. Since signature verification is very unreliable everyone sets up a pin or password that has to be on the ballot. And it needs to be verified by at least two monitors from different political parties before the ballot it is counted. And then voters can go online and see if their vote was counted or invalidated. We have the technology to do this. And outlaw ballot harvesting with only immediate relatives or legal guardians able to assist in voting.

I would support this as it would be much cheaper and eliminate the need for recruiting volunteers for the polls.

[ithos]

Paterson NJ election included ballots from out-of-towners and the dead (https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/paterson-press/2020/05/29/paterson-nj-election-included-ballots-out-towners-and-dead/5287985002/)

Just more proof that Signature Verifications are a lousy way to validate ballots.

The most common reason for the votes’ disqualification was that election officials decided the signatures on the ballots didn’t match those on file in voter registration records. The report listed 1,214 rejections because of ballot signatures, which accounted for 37 percent of all those that were disqualified.

I give them credit. They stopped the dead people from voting.

[Marvic 1]

This article is too long and dreadfully verbose and confusing. Why should it be so hard to vote? It's a constitutional right! They know that there has been tampering with voting machines, there is less chance to tamper with voting by mail. It's been done since the civil war. Ballots are sent to every military personel in the US and abroad. No standing in line, no babysitter needed, no chance of being exposed to coronavirus. Those ballots are as safe as our Social Security checks, tax checks, personal checks, look at all the years we have paid bills by checks through the mail. We receive pay checks through the mail, transactions are carried on through the mail. Not safe? Baloney! A Democratic method of getting more votes? Double baloney!

There is evidence that demonstrates there is not a partisan advantage of voting by mail. While the availability of vote-by-mail ballots increases voter turnout by 1.9 to 2.4 percentage points, the voting method does not increase the share of turnout for either Democrats or Republicans, according to researchers.

A study by Stanford University’s Democracy and Polarization Lab compared counties with vote-by-mail programs to those without in the same state. The authors concluded that vote-by-mail programs have "no discernible effect on party vote shares or the partisan share of the electorate.”

Five states have all-mail elections: Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington. According to Ballotpedia, 29 states and DC allow voters to cast an absentee ballot for any reason, while 16 states require a valid excuse for requesting to mail in a ballot.

During the COVID-19 (coronavirus) pandemic, concerns about the safety of in-person polling places have been raised for the 2020 federal election in November, as well as for summer primary elections. At least 40 people who voted at the Milwaukee polls in Wisconsin's Apr. 7, 2020 primary election have tested positive for coronavirus, raising concerns that voters were forced to put their health at risk to participate in the election.

On Apr. 24, 2020, the governors of New York and Kentucky signed executive orders requiring that every resident be sent an application for vote-by-mail ballots for the states’ summer elections.

Your post are exactly the words that the bobbing heads on CNN are saying and we ALL now their intentions...
If you can make trips to play your card games at a rec center you differently should be able to make just one more to cast a vote....
How many here are getting the virus from going to the supermarket, playing golf or any other social distancing activities. So why can't you or they social distance waiting on line to vote?

[Marvic 1]

"Lots of people" "many people are saying" "I hear from everyone" Who are all of these "people" that want non-citizens to vote? This is all BS. Rumor and scare tactics. Voting by mail is the way to go.

Thank you for YOUR opinion.... :ohdear:

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

This shouldn’t have become a political difference issue, the only fact I see and question was , why if 57.2million voted early in last presidential election why it wrong for early ballots to be sent out know especially with the possibility of the virus coming back . . Now that I think of it maybe I’m wrong about the political issue with this considering that black and brown communities were hit the worst outside of nursing homes

[Aloha1]

No one asked for my ID when I voted in the primaries this past year. In person, at the Paradise Rec Center. I gave them my name and address, they smiled and waved me over to another table, where a woman pointed to one of the empty spots at the table where I could fill in my ballot.

I didn't have to show ID or sign anything to match signatures, or give them my birthdate or anything else to indicate that I really was who I said I was.

And therein lies the problem. You should have been asked and should have been verified. Under that scenario, any other person of the same sex could walk in, give your name and address, and steal your vote. Not saying it WOULD happen, but it COULD happen. And that is why this whole issue needs to be carefully thought out. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

[Marvic 1]

This shouldn’t have become a political difference issue, the only fact I see and question was , why if 57.2million voted early in last presidential election why it wrong for early ballots to be sent out know especially with the possibility of the virus coming back . . Now that I think of it maybe I’m wrong about the political issue with this considering that black and brown communities were hit the worst outside of nursing homes

Why would you say it should not be a political issue when the voting involves two different political parties... :confused:
Their are reasons why the Black, Brown and Elderly communities were hit the hardest with the Corona Virus...
- Besides "Poor Health" like "Obesity", "Diabetes" and not following "Social-Distancing" guidelines this comes into play the most: See Picture below.....

[Marvic 1]

And therein lies the problem. You should have been asked and should have been verified. Under that scenario, any other person of the same sex could walk in, give your name and address, and steal your vote. Not saying it WOULD happen, but it COULD happen. And that is why this whole issue needs to be carefully thought out. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Just think of it, they didn't check OrangeBlossomBaby ID when they should of.
So who going to check when: The millions of “Mail in Votes” that will be dump just before closing time to be signature checked and verified, ... No-One!

[banjobob]

I am sure voter fraud is done on both sides but it seems the Democrats are always the ones that have the shadow of fraud on their actions, I guess we have crooked Hillary the fiasco that happens at every election in Miami/ Dade and the Obama scandals to blame. Or maybe it is Democrats only trying to steal elections.

[golfing eagles]

I am sure voter fraud is done on both sides but it seems the Democrats are always the ones that have the shadow of fraud on their actions, I guess we have crooked Hillary the fiasco that happens at every election in Miami/ Dade and the Obama scandals to blame. Or maybe it is Democrats only trying to steal elections.

Well, if the shoe fits...….

Remember Cook County, 1960

[ColdNoMore]

Well, if the shoe fits...….

Remember Cook County, 1960

Oops, wanna try again? ;)

North Carolina Republican operative charged in election fraud scheme - Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-north-carolina/north-carolina-republican-operative-charged-in-election-fraud-scheme-idUSKCN1QG2FS)

Opinion | Voter Fraud Is Part of the Republican Playbook - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/opinion/voter-fraud-republicans.html)

Republican Voter Fraud - Voter Fraud Facts (http://voterfraudfacts.com/republican-voter-fraud/)

1. People who have issues getting their vote cast do to mobility, identification, work schedules and economic standing are disproportionately voters who will vote for the Democratic party.

Republicans know that when everyone votes they lose. In fact the less people who vote the higher chances they have of winning.

[Bucco]

Most of the news we see these days are from the internet. The sources I cited were extremely credible which is why you try to dismiss it with a lame attempt at humor. People read your posts on the internet. Does that mean your opinions have no credibility?

You had to respond in this fashion because you could not refute or debunk any story I listed as they were credible and non partisan websites.

But here is another one that just happened recently. You are going to have to use the internet to read it. It is ironclad proof of how elections can be corrupted with mail in ballots. And the aggrieved are overwhelmingly in the class of people that you claim to be the guardian over.

NJ NAACP Leader Calls For Paterson Mail-In Vote to Be Canceled Amid Corruption Claims – NBC New York (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/nj-naacp-leader-calls-for-paterson-mail-in-vote-to-be-canceled-amid-fraud-claims/2435162/?fbclid=IwAR0VTFze-rm8-_LHp4SvfvnSXwl1iUpugTsiYn_zAZEqDoiDYrSuaUBMm1U)

Paterson activist Ernest Rucker said his experience this election is an example of the kind of corruption that allegedly took place. Rucker said he never received a ballot but that election records show someone mailed in a ballot in his name.

In addition to apparent problems with the vote count in Paterson, NBC New York has shown video of ballots left out in building lobbies, of one voter handling many ballots, and reported on postal workers reporting finding hundreds of ballots at a time stuffed in mailboxes in Paterson – and even in a neighboring town, Haledon.

Wimberly said he is a supporter of Gov. Murphy but given the history of vote-by-mail controversies, the governor should have done more to allow in-person voting and to ensure safeguards were in place for those ballots sent by mail. That one in five ballots were eliminated, some due to alleged corruption, Wimberly said he was "fed up with this … That’s how you disenfranchise voters. That’s the bottom line.

“It is what is right for the people,” Wimberly said. “We need in-person voting machines with social distancing.

If you desire vote by mail elections free of fraud and incompetence, the solution is simple. Since signature verification is very unreliable everyone sets up a pin or password that has to be on the ballot. And it needs to be verified by at least two monitors from different political parties before the ballot it is counted. And then voters can go online and see if their vote was counted or invalidated. We have the technology to do this. And outlaw ballot harvesting with only immediate relatives or legal guardians able to assist in voting.

I would support this as it would be much cheaper and eliminate the need for recruiting volunteers for the polls.

That commission that lasted 5 months that was looking into voter fraud, and the "millions" of illegals who voted in California. Also they mentioned all the fraud "everywhere" in the country.

I suppose you are saying, they found nothing because they failed to check YouTube or the internet. Interesting

[ColdNoMore]

That commission that lasted 5 months that was looking into voter fraud, and the "millions" of illegals who voted in California. Also they mentioned all the fraud "everywhere" in the country.
It was bipartisan and yet, was disbanded because absolutely NO evidence of widespread voter fraud...was found.

The abandonment, in embarrassing disgrace of this lie, is analogous to a line in a famous poem that goes..."Not with a bang, but a whimper."



I suppose you are saying, they found nothing because they failed to check YouTube or the internet. Interesting

OH SNAP! :boom:


:1rotfl:

[JoMar]

Seems when we read online what matches our bias we deem it credible....when it doesn't it's nothing but misinformation. That's why we will never get back to one Country. As I remember, to sign up for a mail in ballot I had to physically show up, present a valid ID and fill out a form. One time visit. How hard is that?

[collie1228]

I don't like the idea of voting by mail, as voting in-person is good for a citizen's soul. I can live with voting by mail, but only in places where "ballot harvesting" is not legal. Do you want political operatives canvassing your neighborhood for mail-in ballots to collect and deposit with the voting authorities? I don't. If you can't see that such a system is ripe for fraud and abuse, I don't think you are seeing straight. Voting by mail should be just that - by mail.

[Marvic 1]

So I guess this question can not be answered -
So who going to check when, the millions of “Mail in Votes” that will be dump just before closing time to be signature checked and verified?

[ithos]

It was bipartisan and yet, was disbanded because absolutely NO evidence of widespread voter fraud...was found.

The abandonment, in embarrassing disgrace of this lie, is analogous to a line in a famous poem that goes..."Not with a bang, but a whimper."

OH SNAP! :boom:
:1rotfl:

Widespread is a red herring and you know it. Corruption was not "wide spread" when the election was stolen from Nixon in Texas and Chicago. If the election is close it doesn't have to be widespread. But it damn sure was in Michigan.

Overall, state records show 10.6 percent of the precincts in the 22 counties that began the retabulation process couldn’t be recounted because of state law that bars recounts for unbalanced precincts or ones with broken seals.
The problems were the worst in Detroit, where discrepancies meant officials couldn’t recount votes in 392 precincts, or nearly 60 percent. And two-thirds of those precincts had too many votes.
“There’s always going to be small problems to some degree, but we didn’t expect the degree of problem we saw in Detroit. This isn’t normal,” said Krista Haroutunian, chairwoman of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers.

And don't you remember the fiasco in Broward where the late count magically found thousands of more votes for the Democrats? It was impossible to due accurate forensics in that county.

And a couple of Democrats agree that when it comes to voting, where there is way to cheat, then there is a will.

Flashback! Jerry Nadler in 2004: “Paper ballots are extremely susceptible to fraud - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3zxnnJHKu8)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz says Mail in ballots have wrong written all over it. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPG80aIEq-s)

If you have don't have an iron clad system that can reconstruct the vote accurately then these controversies will keep on happening. And if you nationalize mass mailing of ballots , what happened in Paterson NJ, will be replicated many times over.

But can't we at least agree that there has to be a better way to validate mail in ballots than signature verification? As stated before, I could support large scale mail in voting if the proper safeguards were in place.

[Bay Kid]

Not to worry, lots of fake IDs available.