Obvious End To The Mask Controversy

[CarolSells]

I think we beat this to death.

[CFrance]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?
Okay, I'll bite. When even FOX News reports that wearing a mask is effective Wearing a surgical mask can reduce coronavirus transmission by up to 75 percent, study says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows) why should I have to wear a face shield because others won't wear a mask?


I might add this, although I haven't researched where it came from.

[CarolSells]

My thoughts? If I was incapable of selling my own home I would consider Carol. She sounds reasonable.

Thank you.

[Girlcopper]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

My final thoughts on this. If a certain place mandates a mask, wear it. If a place doesnt mandate masks and you want to wear one. Your choice. If youre uncomfortable that others arent, then find another business to patronize. Simple and easy. But your choice may not be mine. Also, Yes, I forgot about the floor arrows in publix. Yes, I went the wrong way up the aisle where not one other person was in that aisle. No need to be so nasty as I EXIT the aisle and try to lecture me. Your pompous attitude isnt becoming

[sdeikenberry]

I find it curious we accept other impairments meant to keep us safe such as being screened for airline flights, being screened to enter government buildings, non-smoking laws, obeying traffic laws, etc...the list goes on...but somehow find wearing a mask impinges our liberties. The reason to wear a mask is to protect others as much as to protect yourself. How is that unreasonable?

[coffeebean]

Okay, I'll bite. When even FOX News reports that wearing a mask is effective Wearing a surgical mask can reduce coronavirus transmission by up to 75 percent, study says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows) why should I have to wear a face shield because others won't wear a mask?


I might add this, although I haven't researched where it came from.

I saw the same information but with a different graphic.

[ColdNoMore]

I find it curious we accept other impairments meant to keep us safe such as being screened for airline flights, being screened to enter government buildings, non-smoking laws, obeying traffic laws, etc...the list goes on...but somehow find wearing a mask impinges our liberties.

The reason to wear a mask is to protect others as much as to protect yourself. How is that unreasonable?

You've very succinctly nailed it. :thumbup:

I'll never understand those who believe they're special and entitled...and only have to think of themselves. :ohdear:

[coffeebean]

I find it curious we accept other impairments meant to keep us safe such as being screened for airline flights, being screened to enter government buildings, non-smoking laws, obeying traffic laws, etc...the list goes on...but somehow find wearing a mask impinges our liberties. The reason to wear a mask is to protect others as much as to protect yourself. How is that unreasonable?

My thoughts are the reason to wear a mask is to stop this damn virus from spreading. Let's stop it in its tracks and wearing masks can achieve that.

[Chrisw2366]

It all comes down is respect for self and others. It not going to hurt anyone to wear a mask when one cannot stay 6 feet apart. Cdc can not be that far wrong

[coffeebean]

There are establishments that will not allow you to enter without a mask. For example:

The Sprint store on 441 in Lady Lake keeps their door locked with a huge sandwich sign stating you must wear a mask to enter the store and an associate will be with you in a moment. When a rep in the store sees someone standing at the door, the rep goes out of the store through the back door and walks to the front of the store to talk to the prospective customer. One prospective customer had to go home to get her mask before she was allowed into the store. She came back 15 minutes later with a mask and was then allowed in the store.

So......always have a mask handy even if you are against mask wearing. OR.....don't give that establishment your business.

[Leadbone1]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.

[DecaturFargo]

How are you enjoying the Kool-aid?

[Travelingal702]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.
BRAVO!!! Well said.

[DanBrew]

Paranoia strikes deep. Into your mind it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line and the man comes and takes you away.

[raindrop49]

My final thoughts on this. If a certain place mandates a mask, wear it. If a place doesnt mandate masks and you want to wear one. Your choice. If youre uncomfortable that others arent, then find another business to patronize. Simple and easy. But your choice may not be mine. Also, Yes, I forgot about the floor arrows in publix. Yes, I went the wrong way up the aisle where not one other person was in that aisle. No need to be so nasty as I EXIT the aisle and try to lecture me. Your pompous attitude isnt becoming

If I find that I am going the wrong way in an aisle I just turn my car t around so I am going the right way. :)

[Oregon47]

To get a professional’s perspective go to YouTube and watch “em:rap“. A weekly broadcast review of current conditions, treatments and issues for/by medical professionals. It might change your opinion.

[RuthA]

Since a virus can pass thru a mask much like a mosquito thru a chain link fence, wearing a mask is ludicrous except to make you feel better. Especially wearing one outside in the heat and humidity where even the "experts" say the virus can only survive for a minute and a half. Wearing a mask causes you to breathe in your own carbon dioxide and inhibits your own immune system. But, hey, it is a free world (at least it used to be), so wear a mask if you want. Just stop condemning other who refuse to fall for this nonsense.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

why should I have to wear a face shield because others won't wear a mask?

For the same reason that you wear a seat belt and take other precautions because of the actions or non actions of other people.

The key phrase here is "have to wear". You don't have to wear it. It's your choice but unless you want a law created mandating the wearing of masks, there are still going to be people that won't wear one. In fact even is a law were passed, there would still be people that break the law.

If you're that concerned about something, then you take whatever actions necessary to protect yourself.

[Klatu]

From what I hear regarding the mask quarrel, some folks feel it is necessary in order to stop the virus. Hold the presses: we are not going to STOP the virus, any more than we stop the flu, colds, etc. All these "If just 75% of the people wore masks, we could defeat this virus in X weeks" are nonsense to me. We can slow the spread, we can mitigate the spread but we will not stop it. AND the young, the healthy are not likely to die from it, so if they contract it, they will be laid low for a while and then be immune. The elderly who are healthy are more vulnerable and require wearing masks themselves if they are diabetic, frail or very immune compromised. So bottom line. If you are young and healthy and walking around, you don't necessarily need a mask unless you are serving others and could infect others. If you are outdoors and not face to face with people, you don't need to be paranoid about a mask. If you are in a store, you should wear one if required. Outside, hot weather and slight wind reduce the danger from droplets dramatically.

As for the demand that everyone wear masks, it's created a kind of Mask Nazi crowd that goes crazy if they see people without masks. We should not surrender our personal freedom and liberty except in the most dire, and temporary circumstances. Or, simply put: I am not going to surrender my choice simply because you are terrified, unless you can convince me your terror is based on facts -- not "estimates" or "experts' (who often are wildly wrong) or "the need of the group" (the group always is composed of people who want to dictate what other do to make them feel virtuous). Let's lower the terror meter folks and be suspicious of all the wild claims we here.

[Jacob85]

Where do you get a face shield?

[Cheapbas]

Actually that sounds selfish. How about “mask up or don’t show up” as my compromise. Your proposal shows no effort of your part To be courteous to your neighbors, and while very convenient to you, proposes the rest of us walk around like hockey goalies.

You wear sunglasses don’t you? A mask isn’t a big deal.

[CarolSells]

Where do you get a face shield?

Amazon, Home Depot, just to name a few.

[Bay Kid]

I guess we should have been wearing mask for years.

[Lindsyburnsy]

If our leaders all made a point of wearing masks, then way more people would be wearing masks. Sending out mixed messages, wear a mask, but then don't wear them yourself, will keep us in this limbo about masks. Kids are taking bulletproof backpacks to school, are subjected to regular shooting drills and have to go through metal detectors EVERY DAY and you can't wear a simple mask for a few hours while in public?

[HelenLCSW]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.

Don’t you know any healthcare providers? They will all tell you this virus is more dangerous than the yearly flu. Why do you think more people need to be hospitalized— more people are showing organ damage subsequent to having it than with regular flu (which doesn’t cause organ damage). Why do you think hospital nurses are scared and anxious —concerned about having been exposed to patients with it —afraid of bringing it home to loved ones.
We know this virus is far more dangerous than the yearly flu —ask anyone who has had both!

[USA2170]

Well said....

[toeser]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

Did you see where the W.H.O. just threw a log on the fire by coming out with guidelines that only people who are sick or treating the sick would benefit from wearing a mask?

[Bill1701]

If I find that I am going the wrong way in an aisle I just turn my car t around so I am going the right way. :)

I turn mine around and walk backwards.

[Isabellejean]

So you refuse to wear a mask. If you get Covid and need hospital care do you plan to go there and expose the staff and the hospital and then their families to covid? If you don't want to be part of the community response then don't use the community facilities. My family member works on a Covid unit and has an immuno compromised child. Don't ask her to care for you because you won't wear a mask.

[jbcincy]

Thanks....‼️

[CarolSells]

To all of the people who have responded to this post who apparently lack reading comprehension skills I would like to point out that I mentioned that the face shield, as an alternative form of PPE, blocks germs going in BOTH directions! That would seem to suggest that the wearer is being proactive in protecting their self as opposed to the ridiculous argument that one is being protected by another person’s mask.

Have all of you mask police been out and about and done much observing of the way that many of the virtuous, ever-so-thoughtful people in masks are using and wearing them? Many are around chins and worn with noses sticking out. I saw a man in Walmart pull his mask down to pick his nose! Many wearers are constantly adjusting their masks thereby touching their faces which renders it useless.

And, I find the references to my profession totally tasteless.

[smacquart]

Pro face masks!!!

[cheweycat]

It makes me angry that the idea of protecting others by wearing a mask is not understood. Politics and freedoms don’t prevent you from landing in the hospital on a ventilator.

[UpNorth]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.

True. Too many people getting the hyped up news stories from the mainstream media., Kill your TV before it kills you.

[kendi]

Okay, I'll bite. When even FOX News reports that wearing a mask is effective Wearing a surgical mask can reduce coronavirus transmission by up to 75 percent, study says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows) why should I have to wear a face shield because others won't wear a mask?


I might add this, although I haven't researched where it came from.

Why should others wear a mask because you won't wear a face shield? If understand the OP correctly, her point is that we don't have control over others, only ourselves. Doing what we need to do to take care of ourselves while being respectful of others who think different is the key. It does no good to lecture, criticize and even insult others like we've heard time and again. Actually, behaving this way only adds to the problem.

[JoelJohnson]

Don't be fooled by the wrong percentage of the death rate. It's very simple, take total outcomes, there are only two, which is number recovered plus number of deaths. Then divide total number of deaths by total outcomes: appx. 540,000 recovered, 100,000 dead = 640,000 outcomes. (100,000 / 640,000) * 100 = 15.6%.
THAT'S why we need to wear masks!

BTW, number of tested is meaningless because we will not know the total outcome until weeks later.

[Eg_cruz]

I find it curious we accept other impairments meant to keep us safe such as being screened for airline flights, being screened to enter government buildings, non-smoking laws, obeying traffic laws, etc...the list goes on...but somehow find wearing a mask impinges our liberties. The reason to wear a mask is to protect others as much as to protect yourself. How is that unreasonable?
Well said

[Marykess1802]

You go girl!

[Joe C.]

I turn mine around and walk backwards.

And I thought I was the only one. Well HEY! I must be in good company!!:a040:

[Joe C.]

I am responsible to protect myself as I see fit.
The same goes for you.
How we go about it may not be the same way.
If I am lax about it, I will suffer the consequences.
If I over do it, then I am wasting time, money, convenience and comfort.

Same goes for you.
Don't worry about others.
Take care of yourself.

[kendi]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

I've noticed that this pandemic has isolated others not just from staying home, but even when out, the masks hide our expressions from one another. Add sunglasses like many do when outdoors and its like we're a bunch of zombies running around. We have lost the smiles of so many wonderful people in TV - a social connection that means a lot to many. There's usually not even a wave or nod of the head. Then, there's the attacks on others who have a different opinion. The worst part of this pandemic is how people have used it to attack rather than respect and support others. You don't have to agree with someone to respect and support - to help build a healthy community.

[Byte1]

I find it curious we accept other impairments meant to keep us safe such as being screened for airline flights, being screened to enter government buildings, non-smoking laws, obeying traffic laws, etc...the list goes on...but somehow find wearing a mask impinges our liberties. The reason to wear a mask is to protect others as much as to protect yourself. How is that unreasonable?

It may not seem "unreasonable" to you, but maybe some of us do not wish to wear the mask all the time when the possibility of being in the same area as an infected is so minute. Wear one if you wish but do not mandate that I wear one just to make you feel better. Like others have said, either wear one or go your own way but do not tell us that we are not being reasonable because you do not "feel" safe. Of course, I never thought that the gov should mandate seatbelts either. That's my opinion. To summarize, wear your mask to "feel" safe if you wish.

[GPGuar]

I find it curious we accept other impairments meant to keep us safe such as being screened for airline flights, being screened to enter government buildings, non-smoking laws, obeying traffic laws, etc...the list goes on...but somehow find wearing a mask impinges our liberties. The reason to wear a mask is to protect others as much as to protect yourself. How is that unreasonable?
It’s not unreasonable, but don’t force me to wear a mask if I don’t want to. That’s my choice!

[ts12755]

People 45 and under have a .004% chance of dying from Coronavirus. If they get Corona they will establish herd immunity to protect the rest of us. If you have a fear or an underlying illness wear your mask, nobody will stop you. Or stay home. Don't penalize the healthy that choose to live their life.

[Dani & Bill]

well done!!

[golfer123]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.
I agree with most of your post......but explain why Doctors, Surgeons and nurses wear them. What is the purpose of masks for them?
Safety?

[fdpaq0580]

Exactly how is suggesting a better form of protection picking a fight? California is going to require that all servers in restaurants wear them. I’ve seen many here in TV.

Please go back and re-read my edited post. It was posted accidentally before it was finished.
Then, please reread your own post#1 with an open mind to see if you can understand how it might have been received by someone with a different point of view.

[billethkid]

It’s not unreasonable, but don’t force me to wear a mask if I don’t want to. That’s my choice!

Most of the medical providers currently "require" a mask to enter.
This would not be forcing one to wear one....just having to choose whether to have the medical service, or not.

[Byte1]

Actually that sounds selfish. How about “mask up or don’t show up” as my compromise. Your proposal shows no effort of your part To be courteous to your neighbors, and while very convenient to you, proposes the rest of us walk around like hockey goalies.

You wear sunglasses don’t you? A mask isn’t a big deal.

So, you wear sunglasses to protect your neighbor? Selfish? How about those obnoxious persons that wish to get into everyone else's business and demand that they conform to "THEIR" standards or wishes? To those folks, I say "get over yourselves."
I only wear a mask and gloves when I am planning on shopping to protect my spouse. Yes, I wear gloves when I shop. DO YOU? Are you going to suggest that those that do not wear gloves are not being "courteous" to their neighbors? Maybe you do not feel that gloves are necessary? Maybe some do not believe that masks are necessary.
My compromise is this; you wear your mask to protect me from your illnesses if you wish. I will wear my mask a bit longer, but pretty soon I plan to give it up as a moot endeavor. And yes, I will use Walmart so if you folks do not wish to see me without a mask, then plan to go elsewhere. I have always used the santi wipe provided at the door to clean the cart and my hands, but that is my wish and not a mandated one to please you.
I do not judge you if you wish to wear a bio hazard suit in public, so quit judging others for their position on this plague that has been added to the long list of others that the world has survived. Some will live and some will perish. That's life. Protect yourself and do not insist that I am obligated to coddle you the way you wish to be coddled.
This is my opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's on here. I do not believe in seat belt laws, even though I wear my seatbelt. I do not believe in helmet laws, even though I wear a helmet on my motorcycle even in those states that do not mandate it's use. Use you own common sense and do not insist on protecting others when they do not wish your intervention.
By the way, stores can display signs asking folks to wear a mask but they cannot force one to wear a mask. At least that is what one store employee said to me.
Argue all you wish but wearing a mask is just for cosmetics, so if you wish to avoid the virus, your best bet is just lock yourself up in your home and never go out until given the all clear announcement. Good luck on that.

[Byte1]

I agree with most of your post......but explain why Doctors, Surgeons and nurses wear them. What is the purpose of masks for them?
Safety?

Why? SO that they don't get hit with malpractice when they infect their patients. Do they wear them outside of the operating room? Nope.

[Byte1]

CFrance, thank you for successfully proving the old adage that a picture is worth 1000 words.

Thank you very much for your comment. My only comment is -- I would rather wear a mask now than a respirator later.

I don't think anyone was demanding that you don't wear a mask. But, if you are really serious and not just posturing for others, then get yourself a military gas mask and be sure you are breathing filtered air. AND the gas mask will protect your eyes too. Remember, the eyes are open avenues to you internals so you must wear eye protection to keep your eyes from absorbing virus spores. :MOJE_whot:

[Gizemo33]

Okay, I'll bite. When even FOX News reports that wearing a mask is effective Wearing a surgical mask can reduce coronavirus transmission by up to 75 percent, study says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows) why should I have to wear a face shield because others won't wear a mask?


I might add this, although I haven't researched where it came from.

CFrance, thank you for successfully proving the old adage that a picture is worth 1000 words.

Thank you very much for your comment. My only comment is -- I would rather wear a mask now than a respirator later.

[kathy1516]

If you wear a mask and someone else does not, what difference does it make? You’ve protected yourself. Live and let live.

[Gizemo33]

I don't think anyone was demanding that you don't wear a mask. But, if you are really serious and not just posturing for others, then get yourself a military gas mask and be sure you are breathing filtered air. AND the gas mask will protect your eyes too. Remember, the eyes are open avenues to you internals so you must wear eye protection to keep your eyes from absorbing virus spores. :MOJE_whot:

Byte1, thank you for your informed comment about additionally wearing eye protection. I do wear eye protection and would hope that all the people become cognizant of the eye protection issue and take some sort of action. It does not require the full mask that you talked about. In my opinion, wraparound glasses would reduce exposure. But again thank you for your comment.

[CFrance]

Why should others wear a mask because you won't wear a face shield? If understand the OP correctly, her point is that we don't have control over others, only ourselves. Doing what we need to do to take care of ourselves while being respectful of others who think different is the key. It does no good to lecture, criticize and even insult others like we've heard time and again. Actually, behaving this way only adds to the problem.
Because wearing a mask protects others as well as yourself. I wear a mask to protect you; you don't want to wear a mask to protect me. Seems rather selfish.

[toeser]

Don't be fooled by the wrong percentage of the death rate. It's very simple, take total outcomes, there are only two, which is number recovered plus number of deaths. Then divide total number of deaths by total outcomes: appx. 540,000 recovered, 100,000 dead = 640,000 outcomes. (100,000 / 640,000) * 100 = 15.6%.
THAT'S why we need to wear masks!

BTW, number of tested is meaningless because we will not know the total outcome until weeks later.

Sorry, that is completely bogus math.

[NECHFalcon68]

Paranoia strikes deep. Into your mind it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line and the man comes and takes you away.

One of my favorites!

[Barefoot]

When even FOX News reports that wearing a mask is effective Wearing a surgical mask can reduce coronavirus transmission by up to 75 percent, study says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows) why should I have to wear a face shield because others won't wear a mask?
Like Gizemo33, I would rather wear a mask now than be on a respirator later.

[Windguy]

Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law.
Then would it be ok for me to show up for service at your church wearing nothing but a mask and a jock strap?

If a restaurant can require you to wear a shirt and shoes (and some even a jacket), then they have every right to require you to wear a mask.

[Barefoot]

Because wearing a mask protects others as well as yourself. I wear a mask to protect you; you don't want to wear a mask to protect me.
Seems rather selfish.:agree:

[Isabellejean]

You don't want to follow community guidelines then don't use community resources. Grow your own food and stay out of the grocery store and don't go to the hospital. Don't put others at risk. Be independent.

[nevjudbaker]

Thai is what I do. I keep the shield on but only pull the mask up when I am inside or around people. I don't expect others to protect me. I have bad lungs & I have to protect myself.

[Windguy]

From what I hear regarding the mask quarrel, some folks feel it is necessary in order to stop the virus.

False assumption. It’s to SLOW the virus so that there is time to do research on ways to prevent, cure, or just reduce the damage caused by the virus.

[Byte1]

Because wearing a mask protects others as well as yourself. I wear a mask to protect you; you don't want to wear a mask to protect me. Seems rather selfish.

Some of us carry concealed weapons to "protect" others as well as ourselves. If you don't, then does that make you being selfish? I think that those that insist that others wear a mask are being insensitive and selfishly not considering that maybe the masks make us uncomfortable and we do not wish to breath stale air or our own recycled carbon dioxide. Do you wear a seat belt to protect others or yourself? Does one wear a MC helmet to protect others or themselves? Do not presume to intimate that others are being selfish because they are not making compromises when considering YOUR demand for conformity.

[Windguy]

If you wear a mask and someone else does not, what difference does it make? You’ve protected yourself. Live and let live.
Where have you been for the last two months? The mask is USELESS for personal protection. My mask protects you.

[Byte1]

You don't want to follow community guidelines then don't use community resources. Grow your own food and stay out of the grocery store and don't go to the hospital. Don't put others at risk. Be independent.

Why? Maybe some of us are not scared of the very slight/minute possibility of being infected and believe that anyone else that is scared of the idea should either protect themselves or go hide in their own homes. Personally, I believe that if you wish to wear a mask, go for it. If not, go for it. Why insist that everyone else conform to your standard, base on your fear? I respect your view and do not insist that you change it. It is a shame that you do not give others that same consideration that you demand.

[Byte1]

Because wearing a mask protects others as well as yourself. I wear a mask to protect you; you don't want to wear a mask to protect me. Seems rather selfish.

And I am sure that you wore a mask during the winter of 2017-2018 when the flu killed something like 61,000? Or, were you "selfish" and have now "evolved" in your view?
Thank you for considering me and wearing your mask.

To those that wish to ostracize those that do not feel the need to wear unproven protection in the form of a sock or hanky mask, sorry if I do not know you and am not considering your precarious health care status. Perhaps your care taker should run errands for you so that you are not exposed to the "invisible menace. "

By the way, I believe that there have only been 7 covid 19 related deaths in the Villages portion of Sumter Co. And Sumter Co. is the largest portion of the Villages. I am not trying to minimize the threat, but I do believe that folks should restrict their demands for limitations to others' personal liberties, to their own lives. Do not make presumptions that you are right and others are wrong.

I'll worry about civil obedience once Martial Law is declared. Otherwise, all precautions are voluntary, not mandated. Like I said before, I wear my mask and gloves out of my own preference, not someone else's demand.

[frasep]

Where did you get your information about the mortality rate of the coronavirus being the same as the flu? I never heard that.

[CarolSells]

Ah me. ☹️ I was going to back out of this but..

You can’t have it both ways. If my mask protects you...how is your choice to wear one now keeping you off of a ventilator later?

People were whining that they couldn’t/wouldn’t go to any rec center activities anytime in the near future if TV relaxed the mask suggestion. Doesn’t it make more sense that you could go play canasta, etc. if you protected yourself with a face shield? You keep your spittle, vapor and whatnot and don’t have to be isolated for fear of being exposed to mine. It also shields your eyes.

That was my original thought. ������

[BRK1939]

My belief is that we choose to wear masks as a courtesy to our fellow man. The proof that it may help prevent viral spread, tends to the positive side. Should you choose not to wear one in a public environment so be it but don't claim you are not doing so just because it is your "Right", more likely to be antagonistic. I will continue to wear mine -- (wow what am imposition !) as a courtesy and will shun you who are not so concerned with my well being, I will certainly not loose any sleep over your choice.

[BS Beef]

Whew CarolSells you got it fired up with this.

There have been a few posts I’ve wanted to comment on. But find it hard to do without being condescending or just plain mean to the poster, so have stayed out.

I think the biggest take away from this is your original statement of no ones minds being changed is the most accurate.

[baramu]

What a misinformed person you are. Over 100,000 people are dead from this virus with the elderly being especially vulnerable. No, the CDC isn’t trying to scare you or lie to you. Sad train of thought.

[jimjamuser]

I find it curious we accept other impairments meant to keep us safe such as being screened for airline flights, being screened to enter government buildings, non-smoking laws, obeying traffic laws, etc...the list goes on...but somehow find wearing a mask impinges our liberties. The reason to wear a mask is to protect others as much as to protect yourself. How is that unreasonable?
The question is answered in the comment. Laws protect people from themselves in many cases. Even though experts were ignored back at 11/2019, it is still relatively new to the general public. It took years to get laws about smoke-free areas. If CV continues for 1 to 4 years (as some predict) mask and glove laws will be common as speed bumps. Note if only 60% of people wore masks the CV problem would dissolve to zero. Google that.

[jimjamuser]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.
CV is MUCH more deadly than the common flu. Also more contagious. To disregard that is to kill your friends!

[jimjamuser]

Paranoia strikes deep. Into your mind it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line and the man comes and takes you away.
The virus comes and takes you away. to the funeral parlor.

[CarolSells]

What a misinformed person you are. Over 100,000 people are dead from this virus with the elderly being especially vulnerable. No, the CDC isn’t trying to scare you or lie to you. Sad train of thought.

Yawn. Did I mention the CDC or it’s guidelines? Has the CDC issued a statement saying that the extra layering of protection from a face shield is ineffective? Did I say don’t wear a face mask? I did say that many don’t use them correctly.

Maybe you didn’t read the whole thread before firing from the hip.

[jimjamuser]

Don’t you know any healthcare providers? They will all tell you this virus is more dangerous than the yearly flu. Why do you think more people need to be hospitalized— more people are showing organ damage subsequent to having it than with regular flu (which doesn’t cause organ damage). Why do you think hospital nurses are scared and anxious —concerned about having been exposed to patients with it —afraid of bringing it home to loved ones.
We know this virus is far more dangerous than the yearly flu —ask anyone who has had both!
Great post! Perfectly true and well articulated.

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by HelenLCSW View Post
Don’t you know any healthcare providers? They will all tell you this virus is more dangerous than the yearly flu. Why do you think more people need to be hospitalized— more people are showing organ damage subsequent to having it than with regular flu (which doesn’t cause organ damage). Why do you think hospital nurses are scared and anxious —concerned about having been exposed to patients with it —afraid of bringing it home to loved ones.
We know this virus is far more dangerous than the yearly flu —ask anyone who has had both!



CV is MUCH more deadly than the common flu. Also more contagious. To disregard that is to kill your friends!

CV virus goes through a mask is a misinformation. CV virus does not exist by itself in the air. It is attached to a droplet which is much bigger than the size of virus. I have just one thing to say well maybe 2.
- You have a total freedom to decide if you don't mind being infected but please do not infect me due to your freedom of choice.
- Just check the statistics of S. Korea and Japan. They have been wearing masks for many years before CV pandemic especially during the flu season. Why? it is not really to protect themselves, it is to protect other when they might be sick.

Let's wear it. How many times you have sneezed and turn and OOPs, I didn't know you were near me. Sorry!

[jimjamuser]

Don't be fooled by the wrong percentage of the death rate. It's very simple, take total outcomes, there are only two, which is number recovered plus number of deaths. Then divide total number of deaths by total outcomes: appx. 540,000 recovered, 100,000 dead = 640,000 outcomes. (100,000 / 640,000) * 100 = 15.6%.
THAT'S why we need to wear masks!

BTW, number of tested is meaningless because we will not know the total outcome until weeks later.
Good post!

[ffresh]

Where do you get a face shield?

joke … right? :1rotfl:

Fred

[Jazzman]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

On Monday the World Health Organization released the following in regards to wearing masks:

-If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
-Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
-Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
-If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

Everyone is an expert

[ffresh]

To all of the people who have responded to this post who apparently lack reading comprehension skills I would like to point out that I mentioned that the face shield, as an alternative form of PPE, blocks germs going in BOTH directions! That would seem to suggest that the wearer is being proactive in protecting their self as opposed to the ridiculous argument that one is being protected by another person’s mask.

Have all of you mask police been out and about and done much observing of the way that many of the virtuous, ever-so-thoughtful people in masks are using and wearing them? Many are around chins and worn with noses sticking out. I saw a man in Walmart pull his mask down to pick his nose! Many wearers are constantly adjusting their masks thereby touching their faces which renders it useless.

And, I find the references to my profession totally tasteless.

As usual … very well said :clap2:

Fred

[Andyhope]

Okay...if you want to wear a mask, do so. If you are wearing a mask , I don’t need one

[jimjamuser]

And I am sure that you wore a mask during the winter of 2017-2018 when the flu killed something like 61,000? Or, were you "selfish" and have now "evolved" in your view?
Thank you for considering me and wearing your mask.

To those that wish to ostracize those that do not feel the need to wear unproven protection in the form of a sock or hanky mask, sorry if I do not know you and am not considering your precarious health care status. Perhaps your care taker should run errands for you so that you are not exposed to the "invisible menace. "

By the way, I believe that there have only been 7 covid 19 related deaths in the Villages portion of Sumter Co. And Sumter Co. is the largest portion of the Villages. I am not trying to minimize the threat, but I do believe that folks should restrict their demands for limitations to others' personal liberties, to their own lives. Do not make presumptions that you are right and others are wrong.

I'll worry about civil obedience once Martial Law is declared. Otherwise, all precautions are voluntary, not mandated. Like I said before, I wear my mask and gloves out of my own preference, not someone else's demand.
61,000. Hymmmm let me think, CV has killed over 100,000 in a few months. It is just beginning. No comparison!

[600th Photo Sq]

I guess we should have been wearing mask for years.

Stick em Up ! :MOJE_whot:

[EviesGP]

So, after a gazillion MORE posts pro and con to wearing a mask(OR FACESHIELD), I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con. AGAIN. Welcome to Florida's Friendliest Hometown...thanks for coming to the show...please tip your waiters and bar tenders!

[coffeebean]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.

Of course the virus can go right through a mask. The damn buggers are so microscopic that 10,000 virus particles can fit on the head of a pin. BUT.......the virus does NOT travel on its own. The coronavirus that causes Covid-19 is transmitted in droplets which are larger than the virus and will be blocked by masks. This is an extremely easy concept to grasp.

This is a great article and I encourage you to read it to become more informed.......
Coronavirus drifts through the air in microscopic droplets – here's the science of infectious aerosols (https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-drifts-through-the-air-in-microscopic-droplets-heres-the-science-of-infectious-aerosols-136663)

Now, here is a video of a demonstration how a simple t-shirt material is extremely effective for blocking droplets. Tightly woven cotton is even better at blocking droplets so I can imagine how much more effective tightly woven cotton is.............
How a mask blocks droplets - YouTube (https://youtu.be/F0RcH9DfuyE)

[coffeebean]

Since a virus can pass thru a mask much like a mosquito thru a chain link fence, wearing a mask is ludicrous except to make you feel better. Especially wearing one outside in the heat and humidity where even the "experts" say the virus can only survive for a minute and a half. Wearing a mask causes you to breathe in your own carbon dioxide and inhibits your own immune system. But, hey, it is a free world (at least it used to be), so wear a mask if you want. Just stop condemning other who refuse to fall for this nonsense.

Please see my post #107 to explain to you how your belief is incorrect. Thanks.

[coffeebean]

From what I hear regarding the mask quarrel, some folks feel it is necessary in order to stop the virus. Hold the presses: we are not going to STOP the virus, any more than we stop the flu, colds, etc. All these "If just 75% of the people wore masks, we could defeat this virus in X weeks" are nonsense to me. We can slow the spread, we can mitigate the spread but we will not stop it. AND the young, the healthy are not likely to die from it, so if they contract it, they will be laid low for a while and then be immune. The elderly who are healthy are more vulnerable and require wearing masks themselves if they are diabetic, frail or very immune compromised. So bottom line. If you are young and healthy and walking around, you don't necessarily need a mask unless you are serving others and could infect others. If you are outdoors and not face to face with people, you don't need to be paranoid about a mask. If you are in a store, you should wear one if required. Outside, hot weather and slight wind reduce the danger from droplets dramatically.

As for the demand that everyone wear masks, it's created a kind of Mask Nazi crowd that goes crazy if they see people without masks. We should not surrender our personal freedom and liberty except in the most dire, and temporary circumstances. Or, simply put: I am not going to surrender my choice simply because you are terrified, unless you can convince me your terror is based on facts -- not "estimates" or "experts' (who often are wildly wrong) or "the need of the group" (the group always is composed of people who want to dictate what other do to make them feel virtuous). Let's lower the terror meter folks and be suspicious of all the wild claims we here.
You mind telling that to Disney World, Leggo World, Sea World, Universal and a host of other theme parks? They seem to grasp why masks and social distancing can slow the spread of Covid-19.

[jimjamuser]

Of course the virus can go right through a mask. The damn buggers are so microscopic that 10,000 virus particles can fit on the head of a pin. BUT.......the virus does NOT travel on its own. The coronavirus that causes Covid-19 is transmitted in droplets which are larger than the virus and will be blocked by masks. This is an extremely easy concept to grasp.

This is a great article and I encourage you to read it to become more informed.......
Coronavirus drifts through the air in microscopic droplets – here's the science of infectious aerosols (https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-drifts-through-the-air-in-microscopic-droplets-heres-the-science-of-infectious-aerosols-136663)

Now, here is a video of a demonstration how a simple t-shirt material is extremely effective for blocking droplets. Tightly woven cotton is even better at blocking droplets so I can imagine how much more effective tightly woven cotton is.............
How a mask blocks droplets - YouTube (https://youtu.be/F0RcH9DfuyE)
Good post. I too saw that t-shirt video.

[Byte1]

What a misinformed person you are. Over 100,000 people are dead from this virus with the elderly being especially vulnerable. No, the CDC isn’t trying to scare you or lie to you. Sad train of thought.

Considering the U.S. population is over 325 MILLION, that is a low percentage. I am not making light of any death, just saying.
In the Civil war, we lost 618000
In WW1 we lost 116,516
In WW2 we lost 405,399

1918 Spanish Flu 675,000 Americans
1968 pandemic 100,000 Americans

Not to mention polio, smallpox, etc.

It serves no purpose to accuse others of being careless, when everyone has their own view on what degree of prevention they believe is "enough."
Masks: paper, fabric, filtered, etc
Gloves
Hats
Eye protection: glasses, safety glasses, goggles, shields
Attire; Long sleeved shirts, rain coat, bio hazard suit
Decontamination: sanitary or disinfectant wipes, washing hands, full shower, immediate clothing laundry, UV exposure.
Personal distancing: six feet, avoid enclosed rooms, avoiding restaurants, avoiding village squares, tennis courts, pickleball courts, golf, biking, walking solo.

Just a suggestion, if you see someone that you believe is not using precautions up to your standards, avoid them. Seeing them is NOT going to infect you with the virus. AND not everyone has the virus, even though it is our practice to assume they do.

[coffeebean]

It’s not unreasonable, but don’t force me to wear a mask if I don’t want to. That’s my choice!
Planning on going to a theme park anytime soon? You will not be admitted or allowed to stay if you do not wear a mask.

Most, if not all, doctor's offices have mandated masks to be necessary. If you don't need medical attention, I guess you are good. Right?

[Byte1]

61,000. Hymmmm let me think, CV has killed over 100,000 in a few months. It is just beginning. No comparison!

Real cute. How many years have we had the flu? That was just an example of one year, OK? It was a comparison, whether you agree or not. Was it exactly the same? No, but it was an example and a comparison of sort. But, don't let me stop you from being hysterical.
Perhaps you would have preferred me to mention the Spanish Flu of 1918 where it killed 675,000? What is the percentage of deaths by covid 19 to the population of the U.S. 325+ million? Any death is unfortunate, but panic and accusations settles nothing.

I was not making little of this pandemic. Only suggesting that everyone has their own idea of how serious it is to them and how they plan to prepare for it or act during it.

[CFrance]

And I am sure that you wore a mask during the winter of 2017-2018 when the flu killed something like 61,000? Or, were you "selfish" and have now "evolved" in your view?
Thank you for considering me and wearing your mask.

To those that wish to ostracize those that do not feel the need to wear unproven protection in the form of a sock or hanky mask, sorry if I do not know you and am not considering your precarious health care status. Perhaps your care taker should run errands for you so that you are not exposed to the "invisible menace. "

By the way, I believe that there have only been 7 covid 19 related deaths in the Villages portion of Sumter Co. And Sumter Co. is the largest portion of the Villages. I am not trying to minimize the threat, but I do believe that folks should restrict their demands for limitations to others' personal liberties, to their own lives. Do not make presumptions that you are right and others are wrong.

I'll worry about civil obedience once Martial Law is declared. Otherwise, all precautions are voluntary, not mandated. Like I said before, I wear my mask and gloves out of my own preference, not someone else's demand.
The selfish people back then were the ones that wouldn't get a flu shot. There is no shot for this, so every simple precaution helps.



It's not unproven that wearing a mask protects others. I don't care if it is voluntary or not. It's about precaution and caring for humanity. If you want to risk the lives of others because you feel you have the right, I have little regard for you. I'll still wear my mask around you though, so you don't catch something and pass it on to a myriad of other people.

[Byte1]

Planning on going to a theme park anytime soon? You will not be admitted or allowed to stay if you do not wear a mask.

Most, if not all, doctor's offices have mandated masks to be necessary. If you don't need medical attention, I guess you are good. Right?

Doctors are having their appointments by video chat now. Guess we don't need a mask for that.......:1rotfl:

[ffresh]

If you wear a mask and someone else does not, what difference does it make? You’ve protected yourself. Live and let live.

Kathy,
Here's why:

Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd. :icon_wink:
Bertrand Russell

Fred

[Byte1]

The selfish people back then were the ones that wouldn't get a flu shot. There is no shot for this, so every simple precaution helps.
It's not unproven that wearing a mask protects others. I don't care if it is voluntary or not. It's about precaution and caring for humanity. If you want to risk the lives of others because you feel you have the right, I have little regard for you. I'll still wear my mask around you though, so you don't catch something and pass it on to a myriad of other people.

Thank you for wearing your mask around me, if you feel you are a threat to my health. I appreciate that. I would do the same for you, if I felt I was a hazard. Like I said in an earlier post, I wear mask and gloves when I shop, solely to protect my spouse. I didn't think about it when it first started because I haven't had a flu shot since 1970 and never had the flu. I haven't even had a cold for at least ten years and then it only lasted two days. Don't get me wrong, I do empathize with those that are scared and worried about everyone being contagious. Those that are infected or carrying do not carry a sign to let us know. But, like I have said over and over again, everyone has a different idea of what is a proper precaution. If I did not have to worry about my spouse, I wouldn't bother unless I wanted to go somewhere where a mask was required. But, that's just me. If that makes me inconsiderate, that is someone else's problem.

[CarolSells]

[QUOTE=CFrance;1774475]The selfish people back then were the ones that wouldn't get a flu shot.”

Do you have data and/or a website that backs that claim up or is it merely an opinion? I’ll wait...

[ffresh]

Ah me. ☹️ I was going to back out of this but..

You can’t have it both ways. If my mask protects you...how is your choice to wear one now keeping you off of a ventilator later?

People were whining that they couldn’t/wouldn’t go to any rec center activities anytime in the near future if TV relaxed the mask suggestion. Doesn’t it make more sense that you could go play canasta, etc. if you protected yourself with a face shield? You keep your spittle, vapor and whatnot and don’t have to be isolated for fear of being exposed to mine. It also shields your eyes.

That was my original thought. ������

Carol, please try to refrain from injecting common sense and logic into your responses going forward. It's very tiring to those of us who wish to blather on with emotional rants based on mere sentiments :icon_wink:

Fred

[coffeebean]

So, you wear sunglasses to protect your neighbor? Selfish? How about those obnoxious persons that wish to get into everyone else's business and demand that they conform to "THEIR" standards or wishes? To those folks, I say "get over yourselves."
I only wear a mask and gloves when I am planning on shopping to protect my spouse. Yes, I wear gloves when I shop. DO YOU? Are you going to suggest that those that do not wear gloves are not being "courteous" to their neighbors? Maybe you do not feel that gloves are necessary? Maybe some do not believe that masks are necessary.
My compromise is this; you wear your mask to protect me from your illnesses if you wish. I will wear my mask a bit longer, but pretty soon I plan to give it up as a moot endeavor. And yes, I will use Walmart so if you folks do not wish to see me without a mask, then plan to go elsewhere. I have always used the santi wipe provided at the door to clean the cart and my hands, but that is my wish and not a mandated one to please you.
I do not judge you if you wish to wear a bio hazard suit in public, so quit judging others for their position on this plague that has been added to the long list of others that the world has survived. Some will live and some will perish. That's life. Protect yourself and do not insist that I am obligated to coddle you the way you wish to be coddled.
This is my opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's on here. I do not believe in seat belt laws, even though I wear my seatbelt. I do not believe in helmet laws, even though I wear a helmet on my motorcycle even in those states that do not mandate it's use. Use you own common sense and do not insist on protecting others when they do not wish your intervention.
By the way, stores can display signs asking folks to wear a mask but they cannot force one to wear a mask. At least that is what one store employee said to me.
Argue all you wish but wearing a mask is just for cosmetics, so if you wish to avoid the virus, your best bet is just lock yourself up in your home and never go out until given the all clear announcement. Good luck on that.

Stores can display signs that masks are required to enter the store and they can keep you out. Sprint keeps their door locked and will not let you in unless you are wearing a mask. That is just one example.

As for your "mask wearing is just for cosmetics" statement......why are you denying the proven science behind masks blocking droplets? You don't seem to be informed about how masks can slow the spread of this virus.

[coffeebean]

If you wear a mask and someone else does not, what difference does it make? You’ve protected yourself. Live and let live.

Oh.......my..........goodness!! I don't know how many times it has been said by the experts, the CDC, many articles on the subject and on this very forum: The wearer of the mask is NOT protecting his or her self. The wearer of the mask is protecting people around them by blocking virus filled droplets if they are asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic for this virus.

Your mask protects me and my mask protects you. Haven't you heard about this yet?

[GoPacers]

This whole discussion is like a scene from the movie Idiocracy. You just can't have a meaningful discussion with someone who is intellectually incapable of comprehending the facts.

This isn't rocket science (for most people unless you believe the movie's plot has already occurred). The ONLY way this goes away is if R0 is less than 1. The smaller we make R0 the sooner this happens. It is indisputable that social distancing and wearing masks materially impacts R0. It doesn't reduce R0 to zero; it simply reduces it, but materially so.

You can offer the argument that social distancing or wearing a mask is "your decision" but what you're really saying is that either you don't have a clue how this works or you simply don't give a rat's tail about your fellow human beings. Pick one and let us know which camp you fall in... I know when I see you I'll make my own assessment. You'll look at me and smugly say there goes a "flaming lib" but in fact, I'm just an educated flaming conservative.

So, don't social distance and don't wear a mask. Do your absolute best to pump up R0 as high as you can. More people might get sick and as a result more people might die. Let us know how if feels to look a good friend or family member in the eye and say sorry that you got COVID from me but it was my "right" to not wear that mask.

[coffeebean]

~~~

[CarolSells]

Carol, please try to refrain from injecting common sense and logic into your responses going forward. It's very tiring to those of us who wish to blather on with emotional rants based on mere sentiments :icon_wink:

Fred

I’m sorry, Fred. I will strive to do better in the future. 👹. Blather is a very apt verb!

[Byte1]

Stores can display signs that masks are required to enter the store and they can keep you out. Sprint keeps their door locked and will not let you in unless you are wearing a mask. That is just one example.

As for your "mask wearing is just for cosmetics" statement......why are you denying the proven science behind masks blocking droplets? You don't seem to be informed about how masks can slow the spread of this virus.

If you say so. I've heard "experts" say that the masks that are home made merely prevent large droplets from escaping. As a matter of fact, if the material is not of the Non-woven substance, then it really isn't much of a filter. If you wish to be more protected, then get yourself a military gas mask. I have one, and it's much better at protecting you than a sock or hanky mask. Besides, you speak of droplets. I don't ever get close enough to worry about "droplets" coming from them. I like my personal space. Like I said, the masks I have seen out and about at the stores are merely security blankets/blankies. But, if it makes one feel more secure then just make believe that I have one on when you see me. Then, when you do not get sick you can make believe you prevented a major illness coming your way.

From what I have read, woven material is NOT a filter. And do you think that those specialized masks with holes for straws and eating, are doing any good? But, we can all pretend.....right?

[CarolSells]

This whole discussion is like a scene from the movie Idiocracy. You just can't have a meaningful discussion with someone who is intellectually incapable of comprehending the facts.

This isn't rocket science (for most people unless you believe the movie's plot has already occurred). The ONLY way this goes away is if R0 is less than 1. The smaller we make R0 the sooner this happens. It is indisputable that social distancing and wearing masks materially impacts R0. It doesn't reduce R0 to zero; it simply reduces it, but materially so.

You can offer the argument that social distancing or wearing a mask is "your decision" but what you're really saying is that either you don't have a clue how this works or you simply don't give a rat's tail about your fellow human beings. Pick one and let us know which camp you fall in... I know when I see you I'll make my own assessment. You'll look at me and smugly say there goes a "flaming lib" but in fact, I'm just an educated flaming conservative.

So, don't social distance and don't wear a mask. Do your absolute best to pump up R0 as high as you can. More people might get sick and as a result more people might die. Let us know how if feels to look a good friend or family member in the eye and say sorry that you got COVID from me but it was my "right" to not wear that mask.

Ah, gee. Could you get any more dramatic? I have been almost totally isolated since March 1, 2020. If I, being a high risk old person, had come in contact with the “deadly virus” I would probably have succumbed by now. To be asymptomatic, I would have had to be in close personal, prolonged contact with someone who was sick and shedding microbes. No one I know here in The Villages either has this virus, had it, or has died from it. Get a grip.

[coffeebean]

Okay...if you want to wear a mask, do so. If you are wearing a mask , I don’t need one

WRONG! Where are you getting your information?

[coffeebean]

Doctors are having their appointments by video chat now. Guess we don't need a mask for that.......:1rotfl:
Not all are telemed appointments. Would like to see a gynecological exam by telemed. LOL. Can a skin biopsy be done with a telemed appointment? Just wondering.

[fdpaq0580]

I've noticed that this pandemic has isolated others not just from staying home, but even when out, the masks hide our expressions from one another. Add sunglasses like many do when outdoors and its like we're a bunch of zombies running around. We have lost the smiles of so many wonderful people in TV - a social connection that means a lot to many. There's usually not even a wave or nod of the head. Then, there's the attacks on others who have a different opinion. The worst part of this pandemic is how people have used it to attack rather than respect and support others. You don't have to agree with someone to respect and support - to help build a healthy community.

Well written and very true. Humans use not only voice to communicate, but also body language and facial expression and more. Communication while wearing a mask, even recognizing a friend across a room becomes more difficult. Our current situation has induced a lot of confusion, distrust and made it easier to focus on our differences rather than our commonality. My best friend in TV (before he passed) and I differed politically, philosophically and even in our choice of preferred adult beverage, but there were many more things that we shared in common. I wonder how, or if, this mask issue would or could divide us. Either of us would have done what they could to make things more comfortable for the other. That is what good friends, good people do.
I admit to being pro-mask for many reasons, some personal, some practical, some I feel ethical. I think, hope the time for mask wearing may be slowly coming to an end. For some, the masks will become part of life like in many other countries. There are some, I have seen, that have learned from this episode. Others have not. To those on both sides, let's try to make peace through cooperation, accommodation and consideration of others.

[Byte1]

Not all are telemed appointments. Would like to see a gynecological exam by telemed. LOL. Can a skin biopsy be done with a telemed appointment? Just wondering.

Good point. My wife's Dr.'s office called and told her that she had to download an app to her phone so she could do her checkup via video conference. She told the doctor that she would wait until she could do it in person and postponed the appointment. Funny how she was later given an appointment IN the office and in person. Must be nice for a visit to be billed to the insurance and co-payment for a phone chat.

[gadaboutgal]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?
Wearing a mask does not protect the wearer and it is not going to stop "stuff" from going in nor a shield will stop it from going under.
People were taught by their mother to cover their mouth when they coughed or sneezed==why? To protect others from the body fluids coming out of you and spreading onto others along with any germs or viruses or whatever.
We do know that Covid is expirated through the mouth and the nose, and Even when you are talking.
Maybe when the self centered refuse to wear a mask, we should just consider they were not brought up properly and are just ignorant of polite civility.

[EdFNJ]

This is probably the 15th thread on or that ended up on this subject. Just more trolling because the "obvious answer" (whatever anyone claims it is) will never be determined by anyone including the OP so it's simply one more time to rehash what has been rehashed ad nauseam here for weeks. Really beginning to miss all the Costco, dog poop and the "mysterious 2 ladies in a golf cart with a clipboard" threads. But in any case there is no "OBVIOUS ANSWER, there is only lots of opinions and you know what "they" say about opinions. ;)

[Byte1]

Wearing a mask does not protect the wearer and it is not going to stop "stuff" from going in nor a shield will stop it from going under.
People were taught by their mother to cover their mouth when they coughed or sneezed==why? To protect others from the body fluids coming out of you and spreading onto others along with any germs or viruses or whatever.
We do know that Covid is expirated through the mouth and the nose, and Even when you are talking.
Maybe when the self centered refuse to wear a mask, we should just consider they were not brought up properly and are just ignorant of polite civility.

I'll make a deal with you. Once they develop a vaccine or remedy for this illness, I will stop wearing a mask when I think it is prudent. Then, I will cover my sneeze to prove to you that I had proper upbringing. Considering that there is only about one in a thousand chances of catching the virus in The Villages, if that....I am not going to stress over it. It does make for good conversation.
It is kind of fun to watch folks that get too close to you, when you fake a few coughs. :MOJE_whot:

[John41]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

At some point that will be a reasonable suggestion. Not sure if we are there yet and have to rely on advice of epidemiologists. Remember that before we wore masks and social distanced infections surged and hospitals were overrun with Covid19 patients and shortage of ventilators. Other patients with non Covid19 illnesses could not get admitted. That never happened with the flu we experience every winter. I understand the discomfort of wearing a mask because my glasses fog up. So maybe you will see a guy and his wife with face shields on in Publix.

[ColdNoMore]

Wearing a mask does not protect the wearer and it is not going to stop "stuff" from going in nor a shield will stop it from going under.
People were taught by their mother to cover their mouth when they coughed or sneezed==why? To protect others from the body fluids coming out of you and spreading onto others along with any germs or viruses or whatever.
We do know that Covid is expirated through the mouth and the nose, and Even when you are talking.
Maybe when the self centered refuse to wear a mask, we should just consider they were not brought up properly and are just ignorant of polite civility.

Excellent point...:agree: :thumbup:

[patfla06]

Did you see where the W.H.O. just threw a log on the fire by coming out with guidelines that only people who are sick or treating the sick would benefit from wearing a mask?

I would do the opposite of what the WHO recommends.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=CFrance;1774475]The selfish people back then were the ones that wouldn't get a flu shot.”

Do you have data and/or a website that backs that claim up or is it merely an opinion? I’ll wait...

You don't get flu shots for the seasonal flu? How about for two kinds of pneumonia? How about Shingles?

If you have children, were they vaccinated against catching measles, mumps, chicken pox and polio? Perhaps I misunderstood your comment.

I was responding to Carol Sells, not CFrance

[CarolSells]

[QUOTE=CarolSells;1774481]

You don't get flu shots for the seasonal flu? How about for two kinds of pneumonia? How about Shingles?

If you have children, were they vaccinated against catching measles, mumps, chicken pox and polio? Perhaps I misunderstood your comment.

I was responding to Carol Sells, not CFrance

Hi Gracie,
I was asking how CFrance knew how many “selfish” people didn’t get flu shots during the 2017 - 2018 flu epidemic.

[coffeebean]

Wearing a mask does not protect the wearer and it is not going to stop "stuff" from going in nor a shield will stop it from going under.
People were taught by their mother to cover their mouth when they coughed or sneezed==why? To protect others from the body fluids coming out of you and spreading onto others along with any germs or viruses or whatever.
We do know that Covid is expirated through the mouth and the nose, and Even when you are talking.
Maybe when the self centered refuse to wear a mask, we should just consider they were not brought up properly and are just ignorant of polite civility.
Even when a person is breathing.....droplets are expelled from the nose and mouth.There is science behind the effectiveness of slowing the spread of viruses when wearing masks. Folks are denying the science.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It’s not unreasonable, but don’t force me to wear a mask if I don’t want to. That’s my choice!

And it's the store's choice to not allow you into their building. It's the rec center's choice not to let you participate in events. It's your neighbor's choice to not help you with - anything at all. It's your best friend's choice to find a new best friend.

But you go ahead being right. I'm sure it'll help you get through your busy day.

[coffeebean]

This is probably the 15th thread on or that ended up on this subject. Just more trolling because the "obvious answer" (whatever anyone claims it is) will never be determined by anyone including the OP so it's simply one more time to rehash what has been rehashed ad nauseam here for weeks. Really beginning to miss all the Costco, dog poop and the "mysterious 2 ladies in a golf cart with a clipboard" threads. But in any case there is no "OBVIOUS ANSWER, there is only lots of opinions and you know what "they" say about opinions. ;)

It is NOT OPINIONS. Science has studied viruses for many many years. It is a known fact, from scientific evidence that droplets are blocked by masks that have a tight weave. Do not call this an opinion because it isn't.

[600th Photo Sq]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;1774555]

Hi Gracie,
I was asking how CFrance knew how many “selfish” people didn’t get flu shots during the 2017 - 2018 flu epidemic.

Actually I didn't get a Flu Shot during that time, in fact I haven't had a Flu shot in umpteen years. Flu free for many, many +++ years.

Now I don't consider myself selfish nor does my family and friends far from it.

You have tagged, labeled those who chose not to get a Flu shot " Selfish ".

So what makes you an expert on " Selfishness ".

Since you are seeking an opinion from another person you obviously aren't the only one who consider themselves a " Selfish Person Expert " Give me a break. :shocked:

[coffeebean]

I'll make a deal with you. Once they develop a vaccine or remedy for this illness, I will stop wearing a mask when I think it is prudent. Then, I will cover my sneeze to prove to you that I had proper upbringing. Considering that there is only about one in a thousand chances of catching the virus in The Villages, if that....I am not going to stress over it. It does make for good conversation.
It is kind of fun to watch folks that get too close to you, when you fake a few coughs. :MOJE_whot:

A couple of days ago while sitting in a restaurant, an elderly woman let loose with a huge sneeze right into the air. We were sitting at the next table but thankfully 6 feet away from her table. She followed that up with a second sneeze right into her hand. Not funny.

[Cheapbas]

So, you wear sunglasses to protect your neighbor? Selfish? How about those obnoxious persons that wish to get into everyone else's business and demand that they conform to "THEIR" standards or wishes? To those folks, I say "get over yourselves."
I only wear a mask and gloves when I am planning on shopping to protect my spouse. Yes, I wear gloves when I shop. DO YOU? Are you going to suggest that those that do not wear gloves are not being "courteous" to their neighbors? Maybe you do not feel that gloves are necessary? Maybe some do not believe that masks are necessary.
My compromise is this; you wear your mask to protect me from your illnesses if you wish. I will wear my mask a bit longer, but pretty soon I plan to give it up as a moot endeavor. And yes, I will use Walmart so if you folks do not wish to see me without a mask, then plan to go elsewhere. I have always used the santi wipe provided at the door to clean the cart and my hands, but that is my wish and not a mandated one to please you.
I do not judge you if you wish to wear a bio hazard suit in public, so quit judging others for their position on this plague that has been added to the long list of others that the world has survived. Some will live and some will perish. That's life. Protect yourself and do not insist that I am obligated to coddle you the way you wish to be coddled.
This is my opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's on here. I do not believe in seat belt laws, even though I wear my seatbelt. I do not believe in helmet laws, even though I wear a helmet on my motorcycle even in those states that do not mandate it's use. Use you own common sense and do not insist on protecting others when they do not wish your intervention.
By the way, stores can display signs asking folks to wear a mask but they cannot force one to wear a mask. At least that is what one store employee said to me.
Argue all you wish but wearing a mask is just for cosmetics, so if you wish to avoid the virus, your best bet is just lock yourself up in your home and never go out until given the all clear announcement. Good luck on that.

Please see diagram posted by CFrance in post #2. That’s what I am going with, I don’t care what it’s origins are.

[CarolSells]

[

Actually I didn't get a Flu Shot during that time, in fact I haven't had a Flu shot in umpteen years. Flu free for many, many +++ years.

Now I don't consider myself selfish nor does my family and friends far from it.

You have tagged, labeled those who chose not to get a Flu shot " Selfish ".

So what makes you an expert on " Selfishness ".

Since you are seeking an opinion from another person you obviously aren't the only one who consider themselves a " Selfish Person Expert " Give me a break. :shocked:

FYI. I didn’t call the people who didn’t get flu shots selfish. CFrance did.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Y'all need to learn how to use the quote button correctly. You're answering the wrong peoples' posts and then answering the wrong peoples' posts to complain that they're answering the wrong peoples' posts.

[Velvet]

Everyone should have the right not to get flu shots or vaccines etc... but then they should also give up their rights to go out in public anywhere where they may infect others. Because what no one has a right to is to endanger or hurt others.

[Joe V.]

Everyone should have the right not to get flu shots or vaccines etc... but then they should also give up their rights to go out in public anywhere where they may infect others. Because what no one has a right to is to endanger or hurt others.

Wrong.

[600th Photo Sq]

FYI. I didn’t call the people who didn’t get flu shots selfish. CFrance did.

I do apologize you are 100% correct. I did go back and look at her post . Unlike your post's, CFrance post are all over the place , sort of like hitting the cue ball into all the balls on a pool table really hard.

You obviously are a detail person. I respect that.

I bet you smile a lot :)

[Byte1]

Everyone should have the right not to get flu shots or vaccines etc... but then they should also give up their rights to go out in public anywhere where they may infect others. Because what no one has a right to is to endanger or hurt others.

Why? That's just your opinion. The type of opinion that results in gov tyranny.

Edited: Never mind, beating a dead horse. And it did not die of Covid 19, but I am sure it was labeled as the cause.

[CarolSells]

I do apologize you are 100% correct. I did go back and look at her post . Unlike your post's, CFrance post are all over the place , sort of like hitting the cue ball into all the balls on a pool table really hard.

You obviously are a detail person. I respect that.

I bet you smile a lot :)

Thanks for checking back in. 😎

[600th Photo Sq]

Everyone should have the right not to get flu shots or vaccines etc... but then they should also give up their rights to go out in public anywhere where they may infect others. Because what no one has a right to is to endanger or hurt others.

I am willing to bet that you have gone out in public with the common cold knowing full well you could pass on your germs to others. Multiple times.

So what is the difference, Getting a Flu shot doesn't make anyone immune it just lessons the % . 70-30...… 60-40..... 80-20 … ?

So preaching to individuals your opinion is basically worthless. :doggie:

[GoodLife]

Everyone should read this paper by two Doctors who are respiratory protection specialists. They looked at all the scientific papers on various types of facemasks and have some solid conclusions. They don't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing thru a tee shirt into a petri dish.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

[ColdNoMore]

Everyone should read this paper by two Doctors who are respiratory protection specialists. They looked at all the scientific papers on various types of facemasks and have some solid conclusions. They don't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing thru a tee shirt into a petri dish.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

Per the link, two of the main reasons they are against masks are:

- Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection.

- We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.


...telling the public to wear cloth or surgical masks could be interpreted by some to mean that people are safe to stop isolating at home.

It's too late now for anything but stopping as much person-to-person interaction as possible.


In other words, their recommendation is to continue social-distancing...and to stay at home. :boom:



.

[Scbang]

Okay...if you want to wear a mask, do so. If you are wearing a mask , I don’t need one
You are missing the point. Whether I am wearing one to protect you is not the point. You need to wear one to protect me. Please..

[Scbang]

On Monday the World Health Organization released the following in regards to wearing masks:

-If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
-Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
-Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
-If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

Everyone is an expert

All good point. But if someone is doing Russian roulette on my head without knowing whether the bullet is loaded or not. I'd rather the person not pull the trigger.

[GoodLife]

Per the link, two of the main reasons they are against masks are:

- Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection.

- We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.





In other words, their recommendation is to continue social-distancing...and to stay at home. :boom:
.

Date of the paper was April 1, two months ago so no boom for you. :1rotfl:

[Scbang]

[QUOTE=CarolSells;1774558]

Actually I didn't get a Flu Shot during that time, in fact I haven't had a Flu shot in umpteen years. Flu free for many, many +++ years.

Now I don't consider myself selfish nor does my family and friends far from it.

You have tagged, labeled those who chose not to get a Flu shot " Selfish ".

So what makes you an expert on " Selfishness ".

Since you are seeking an opinion from another person you obviously aren't the only one who consider themselves a " Selfish Person Expert " Give me a break. :shocked:

Please let me tell you a story. A person dies and goes to the gate. St. Peter asks "would you want to go to heaven or go to hell?" The person wisely answers, "Sir, if you don't mind, I'd like to take a look at both places before I give you my answer". So he went to e hell first. There were enough food for everyone but the chopsticks and forks were too long to feed themselves. Given that they can't feed themselves, when someone throws food in the air, everyone fights to catch it and none gets fed. Next he goes to heaven and saw the same table, same food, same long chopsticks and forks but everyone feeds each other and live happily.. Covid or not, we can decide whether we want to live in hell or heaven. You too, can decide.

[CarolSells]

[QUOTE=600th Photo Sq;1774583]

Please let me tell you a story. A person dies and goes to the gate. St. Peter asks "would you want to go to heaven or go to hell?" The person wisely answers, "Sir, if you don't mind, I'd like to take a look at both places before I give you my answer". So he went to e hell first. There were enough food for everyone but the chopsticks and forks were too long to feed themselves. Given that they can't feed themselves, when someone throws food in the air, everyone fights to catch it and none gets fed. Next he goes to heaven and saw the same table, same food, same long chopsticks and forks but everyone feeds each other and live happily.. Covid or not, we can decide whether we want to live in hell or heaven. You too, can decide.

Thanks. That’s a nice parable but, as was cleared up earlier, the source of the “selfishness” concerning flu shots was not me.

[Dgizzi]

My final thoughts on this. If a certain place mandates a mask, wear it. If a place doesnt mandate masks and you want to wear one. Your choice. If youre uncomfortable that others arent, then find another business to patronize. Simple and easy. But your choice may not be mine. Also, Yes, I forgot about the floor arrows in publix. Yes, I went the wrong way up the aisle where not one other person was in that aisle. No need to be so nasty as I EXIT the aisle and try to lecture me. Your pompous attitude isnt becoming
Well said!!

[CarolSells]

[QUOTE=Scbang;1774615]

Honestly I almost fell asleep half way through your post . I caught the end.

And well I poured myself another glass of wine " Whitehaven " I highly recommend it. :)

Sounds like a good idea! Enjoy the rest of your evening. 🍷

[Scbang]

[QUOTE=Scbang;1774615]

Thanks. That’s a nice parable but, as was cleared up earlier, the source of the “selfishness” concerning flu shots was not me.

Something is wrong, I was replying to that "Selfishness" guy. :-)

[CarolSells]

[QUOTE=CarolSells;1774619]

Something is wrong, I was replying to that "Selfishness" guy. :-)

Somehow along the way posts got tangled up. 😙.

[ffresh]

A couple of days ago while sitting in a restaurant, an elderly woman let loose with a huge sneeze right into the air. We were sitting at the next table but thankfully 6 feet away from her table. She followed that up with a second sneeze right into her hand. Not funny.

I'm astonished you're still here to report this obvious infraction. Thankfully you were not 5'11" away! :icon_wink:

Fred

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

As I mentioned on page 9, you are all not understanding how the quote button works. You're quoting broken quotes, which makes it look like you're responding to someone else..

The first person broke the quote by not including the end-quote code. The second person quoted that broken quote, which carried the broken quote forward to the next poster. And so on and so forth.

All quoted posts should begin with a [ bracket, the word quote, and an end bracket ] . They should also end with a [ bracket, a forward slash / , the word quote, and an end bracket ].

You need to actually check and make sure they have both of these things, before you post your post, or you will continue the broken quote cycle.

You can also preview your own posts, to make sure that you didn't delete that end-quote code by mistake, before you ever submit the post.

[GoPacers]

Everyone should read this paper by two Doctors who are respiratory protection specialists. They looked at all the scientific papers on various types of facemasks and have some solid conclusions. They don't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing thru a tee shirt into a petri dish.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

You should read the article again and their conclusions. Their conclusions are solid but you've grossly misrepresented the point of the article.

[ColdNoMore]

You should read the article again and their conclusions. Their conclusions are solid but you've grossly misrepresented the point of the article.

You are absolutely correct.

However, some people post cherry-picked opinion pieces with the knowledge/hope that not everyone (unlike us)...will read the whole thing. :ohdear:

[EdFNJ]

It is NOT OPINIONS. Science has studied viruses for many many years. It is a known fact, from scientific evidence that droplets are blocked by masks that have a tight weave. Do not call this an opinion because it isn't. HUH? You're preaching to the choir. I agree with you 200%. You are either replying to the wrong person or the wrong quote or you didn't read the comment or didn't understand what I said. Likely the last. What I tried to say (obviously unsuccessfully) that there are just WAY TOO MANY of these same threads with the same arguments and each "side" has their own SAME OPINION and it's repeated over and over endlessly and no matter what anyone says no one will convince "the other side" to change their OPINION. It's beenbeaten to death endlessly already for weeks.

[coffeebean]

HUH? You're preaching to the choir. I agree with you 200%. You are either replying to the wrong person or the wrong quote or you didn't read the comment or didn't understand what I said. Likely the last. What I tried to say (obviously unsuccessfully) that there are just WAY TOO MANY of these same threads with the same arguments and each "side" has their own SAME OPINION and it's repeated over and over endlessly and no matter what anyone says no one will convince "the other side" to change their OPINION. It's been beaten to death endlessly already for weeks.

By your statements, I had no idea you were agreeing with me. Sorry if I misunderstood your use of the word, "opinions".

BTW......I love your signature. Makes me chuckle.

[GoodLife]

You should read the article again and their conclusions. Their conclusions are solid but you've grossly misrepresented the point of the article.

Oh really? Here's what I said.

Everyone should read this paper by two Doctors who are respiratory protection specialists. They looked at all the scientific papers on various types of facemasks and have some solid conclusions. They don't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing thru a tee shirt into a petri dish.

Paper is indeed written by 2 MDs who are respiratory protection specialists.
They did look at scientific studies of various types of facemasks.
They did come to some solid conclusions.
They didn't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing through a tee shirt.

Please point out where I "grossly misrepresented" anything.

[coffeebean]

Everyone should read this paper by two Doctors who are respiratory protection specialists. They looked at all the scientific papers on various types of facemasks and have some solid conclusions. They don't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing thru a tee shirt into a petri dish.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data)

I saw that YouTube video of the petri dish. Quite impressive actually and why not believe the results? Do you think YouTube video posters are fudging results? I guess that is a possibility.

I have been posting a YouTube video on several thread of a guy who spritzes water onto a mirror using a spritzer bottle. Water droplets go all over the mirror. Then, the guy spritzes water from the same spritzer bottle through a single layer of T-shirt material. Not one drop of water settled on the mirror. Not very scientific but sure as hell made an impression on me how one layer of T-shirt material blocked all those droplets from landing on the mirror.

I have been making home made masks out of Bounty paper towel (2 layers), a 2" strip of printer paper to make the mask 3D, one tissue folded in half, rubber bands and staples. Once all my materials are in place, it takes me about one minute to assemble the finished mask. I was curious to see if one layer of a Bounty paper towel blocked droplets on my mirror just the the one layer of T-shirt material blocked droplets in the video I explained above.

I conducted my very scientific (for me) experiment and low and behold.....not one droplet of water landed on my mirror as I spritzed water from a water spritzer on my mirror through one layer of Bounty paper towel.

Given that I use two layers of paper towel, the printer paper which sits in front of the mouth and one folded tissue, I know none of my droplets are escaping from my mouth or nose when I breathe, speak, sing, cough or sneeze. The mask fits very snuggly to my face so this is also a plus to protect others from my droplets. I don't know if I am an asymptomatic carrier of the virus which is why I wear a mask when I can not guarantee to social distance.

I hope people realize that home made mask wearing is to protect others around you and not the wearer of the mask. Wearing masks is to slow the spread of this virus.

As for this article, which I read read through, BTW, I took away one very important aspect of these doctors' conclusions: wearing home made cloth masks can block transmission of virus. These masks do not protect the wearer of the masks.

Gee, that is what I have thought all along.

[GoodLife]

I saw that YouTube video of the petri dish. Quite impressive actually and why not believe the results? Do you think YouTube video posters are fudging results? I guess that is a possibility.

I have been posting a YouTube video on several thread of a guy who spritzes water onto a mirror using a spritzer bottle. Water droplets go all over the mirror. Then, the guy spritzes water from the same spritzer bottle through a single layer of T-shirt material. Not one drop of water settled on the mirror. Not very scientific but sure as hell made an impression on me how one layer of T-shirt material blocked all those droplets from landing on the mirror.

I have been making home made masks out of Bounty paper towel (2 layers), a 2" strip of printer paper to make the mask 3D, one tissue folded in half, rubber bands and staples. Once all my materials are in place, it takes me about one minute to assemble the finished mask. I was curious to see if one layer of a Bounty paper towel blocked droplets on my mirror just the the one layer of T-shirt material blocked droplets in the video I explained above.

I conducted my very scientific (for me) experiment and low and behold.....not one droplet of water landed on my mirror as I spritzed water from a water spritzer on my mirror through one layer of Bounty paper towel.

Given that I use two layers of paper towel, the printer paper which sits in front of the mouth and one folded tissue, I know none of my droplets are escaping from my mouth or nose when I breathe, speak, sing, cough or sneeze. The mask fits very snuggly to my face so this is also a plus to protect others from my droplets. I don't know if I am an asymptomatic carrier of the virus which is why I wear a mask when I can not guarantee to social distance.

I hope people realize that home made mask wearing is to protect others around you and not the wearer of the mask. Wearing masks is to slow the spread of this virus.

As for this article, which I read read through, BTW, I took away one very important aspect of these doctors' conclusions: wearing home made cloth masks can block transmission of virus. These masks do not protect the wearer of the masks.

Gee, that is what I have thought all along.

The youtube videos sneezing through a tee shirt are not science which requires precise measurements. As far as their conclusions about masks, here it is straight from the paper.

"Cloth masks are ineffective as source control and PPE, surgical masks have some role to play in preventing emissions from infected patients, and respirators are the best choice for protecting healthcare and other frontline workers, but not recommended for source control."

I have seen other studies testing cloth masks as source control (protecting others) and depending on material used, to be from 10% to 50% effective in reducing emissions. That's better than nothing. Surgical masks are better in this function. Only N95 respirators can truly protect wearer from virus.

This is why I have stayed out of buildings, and maintained 20 foot distance while outdoors. I have nothing against those who use cloth masks when out and about. They do help a little bit.

[roscoguy]

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

That's a compromise? Sounds way more like a sarcastic troll to me. How about having the people that are sure that masks make no difference taking over caring for the ICU patients with COVID, no masks allowed. Is that a "compromise" too?

[roscoguy]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Wearing a mask cannot be mandated. It is not a law. A world renowned epidemiologist indicated that because of the size of the virus it can go right through any mask. Even an N 95 mask. It’s a microbe! The only value of a mask is psychological. You don’t wear a mask during flu season do you? Since we now know this virus has virtually the same mortality rate as the flu why are we still talking about this? I cannot believe the paranoia about this virus has lasted this long. The media obviously did a great job of scaring people to death to the point where they can’t even think for themselves anymore.

I can't believe we're still arguing this either. No mask can eliminate the possibility of spread of this, or any other, virus. A good mask (surgical or N95) can reduce the amount of expelled respiratory droplets which can carry the virus, if properly worn. It's also been said that the virus doesn't magically travel through the air on it's own; the most common method of airborne transmission is thought to be via these respiratory droplets. More than a merely psychological value, IMO. Unfortunately, homemade masks aren't likely to stop much at all except for the largest droplets, but may still reduce the velocity of expelled droplets, depending on the way they were made and worn. In either case, the wearer of the mask is potentially protecting others rather than ensuring their own safety. Since there is no question that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus, in effect, wearing a mask in public unselfishly says 'I will try to protect others'. Refusing to wear one tends to imply the opposite.

Just for the record, COVID-19 is NOT the flu, no matter how many times it is used as a comparison... :ohdear: Given that no 2 sources seem to agree on the COVID-19 mortality rates, it is very nearly impossible to say that it is "virtually the same" as the flu.

[Timothyimitchell]

Have you not heard. The virus is gone. The riots are here. Whats next?

[Altavia]

So, after a gazillion posts pro and con to wearing a mask, I don’t believe that we have swayed anyone to our side, pro or con.

How about the compromise could be that people who are leery of mingling with non-maskers at rec centers , etc. could wear their masks AND face shields. They seem to be able to stop “stuff” going both in and out. Plus, the mask could be also worn to guard against anti-gravity droplets which might drift upwards under the face shield.

Your thoughts?

Fair question, there are no single or perfect solutions so at the end of the day, it's about reducing risks. Personally, I'm not an infectious disease expert so I follow the most recent CDC guidance the best I can as we learn more and the guidance evolves.

Relative to the Rec Centers and other interior spaces, data and intuition indicates one of the most effective risk reduction methods is to improve the ventilation in the building. Make interior air as close to outside air as reasonably possible. This helps reduce risk for all occupants.

So it would be interesting to learn what is being done to the Rec Centers to achieve compliance as recommended by the CDC for the air those spaces. A few points extracted for those who don't click on links.

COVID-19 Employer Information for Office Buildings | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/office-buildings.html)

Take steps to improve ventilation in the building:

Increase the percentage of outdoor air.

Increase total airflow supply to occupied spaces, if possible.

Consider using natural ventilation (i.e., opening windows if possible and safe to do so) to increase outdoor air dilution of indoor air when environmental conditions and building requirements allow.

Improve central air filtration: Increase air filtration to as high as possible (MERV 13 or 14) without significantly diminishing design airflow.

Consider running the building ventilation system even during unoccupied times to maximize dilution ventilation.

Generate clean-to-less-clean air movement re-evaluating the positioning of supply and exhaust air diffusers and/or dampers and adjusting zone supply and exhaust flow rates to establish measurable pressure differentials.

Have staff work in areas served by “clean” ventilation zones that do not include higher-risk areas such as visitor reception or exercise facilities (if open).

Consider using portable high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) fan/filtration systems to help enhance air cleaning (especially in higher risk areas).

Ensure exhaust fans in restroom facilities are functional and operating at full capacity when the building is occupied.

Consider using ultraviolet germicidal irradiation (UVGI) as a supplement to help inactivate the virus.

[roscoguy]

I have been almost totally isolated since March 1, 2020. If I, being a high risk old person, had come in contact with the “deadly virus” I would probably have succumbed by now.
Total nonsense. "Almost" means you have incurred at least some risk and possible contact with others who just may be carriers. Maybe 2 weeks after the last time your isolation wasn't 'almost total', this would make sense.

To be asymptomatic, I would have had to be in close personal, prolonged contact with someone who was sick and shedding microbes. No one I know here in The Villages either has this virus, had it, or has died from it. Get a grip.

Nope, neither close nor prolonged contact are really necessary. Indoors, respiratory droplets may stay in the air much farther than the 6 feet recommended for social distancing. Then there's also the fact that virus particles can live for hours on surfaces you may come into contact with on the rare instances you are out & about. You also seem to discount the possiblity that others here in The Villages can't have recently been exposed & become carriers themselves. Maybe you should follow your own advice to "Get a grip"?

[Slapnut]

What's the difference being 6 feet apart whether you are going in the same direction or in the opposite direction. None ( makes no damn sense for the arrows)

[Huskies]

I have many medical issues including oxygen. If I were not wearing a masks and someone who wasn’t wearing one and they sneezed or coughed there is a good chance that I could die if their spray hit me, unfortunately you don’t even know if you you have the virus, at the beginning most people do not know that have it at the beginning. I’d like to have everyone thinking of each other rather than just thinking of themselves.

[Barefoot]

I have many medical issues including oxygen. If I were not wearing a masks and someone who wasn’t wearing one and they sneezed or coughed there is a good chance that I could die if their spray hit me. It's unfortunately true.
You can spread the virus without knowing you have COVID-19.

[NorskiCroat]

The Truth About Masks

The truth about masks (https://theweek.com/articles/916854/truth-about-masks?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_source=afternoon&utm_medium=06_01_20-article_1-916854)

[CarolSells]

:::

[jet10s]

Why? Maybe some of us are not scared of the very slight/minute possibility of being infected and believe that anyone else that is scared of the idea should either protect themselves or go hide in their own homes. Personally, I believe that if you wish to wear a mask, go for it. If not, go for it. Why insist that everyone else conform to your standard, base on your fear? I respect your view and do not insist that you change it. It is a shame that you do not give others that same consideration that you demand.
New England Journal of Medicine - May 21, 2020 Perspective on Universal Masking
We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic. DOI: 10.1056/NEJM p2006372

[GoPacers]

New England Journal of Medicine - May 21, 2020 Perspective on Universal Masking
We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic. DOI: 10.1056/NEJM p2006372

So, the article is talking about universal masking in the hospital setting. You've selectively referenced various text from the article to infer a point the authors did not make themselves. Here is the full article with the full title.

Universal Masking in Hospitals in the Covid-19 Era (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372)

Here is an interesting article on the spread of the virus: The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them)

Wearing a mask outside is probably not going to make any difference in most settings. The probability of getting sufficient exposure to contract the virus is minimal depending on the environment, as is the potential to contract the virus from touching surfaces outdoors. That said, practicing social distancing and good hygiene is still recommended and provides an additional layer of safety that will potentially reduce the transmission rate (which is already likely low).

However, in buildings/rooms/areas where symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers may be confined for extended periods (restaurants, bars, stores, etc.) the probability is much different. Wearing a mask won't guarantee that you won't get the virus. It will have some impact on reducing the transmission rate (R0) which is what has to happen for this to no longer be an issue. You obviously cannot wear a mask in a restaurant or bar but in convenience stores, grocery stores, etc. where there are confined spaces the risk rises and wearing a mask in those settings may reduce (not eliminate) the transmission rate.